View Full Version : Loadswine's >MK3< V6 swap!
Paul Woods
20-09-2007, 18:35
Well the time has finally come when a mk3 v6 should be built by someone in the UK,nigel and i have done a lot of forward planning on this one and with a parts hold up on whoozys car it was an ideal chance to start work!
To fill you in a little nigels car already has a turbo kit fitted to the woeful 1zz lump,i say woeful because thats what they are! Becky owns one of these,well an Mr-s,same thing! and i regularly take it out....gutless is the only word i can use to describe it! Ive driven others too,all the same,very poor performance.
But nigels beasty is a little different with its turbo kit strapped on and it certainly whizzes along at a pace,but still lacking that oomph!
So here goes,this isnt going to be easy,far from it,but nigels brave enough to let me loose on it and if it all works out ok it should be a right little beast.
SO first of all here is a shot of how things look....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/125.jpg
Not much room in that engine bay for.....well anything really! let alone a 6.
Work started by getting rid of the battery and other clutter from the engine bay,and we also removed the rear bumper,this makes access to the rear much easier....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/126.jpg
After that i removed the exhaust system and more parts including the chargecooler pipes running front to rear....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/127.jpg
Next it was time to remove the turbo equipment,not a bad piece of kit this,quite impressive! engines looking a lot barer now
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/128.jpg
I had planned to remove the whole engine today but sadly a 32mm double hex socket that i didnt have prevented me from taking the driveshafts out,i have a 32mm but its single hex....so we shut up shop and went to buy one.
Finally today i took a reference shot of how the supported shaft sits in relation to the rear subframe.....this will help with aligning the v6 shaft.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/129.jpg
A hell of a lot to come! watch this space.
This should be interesting,good luck with the build.:thumbsup:
loadswine
20-09-2007, 19:23
Very cool, we're underway!:jump:
Hinteresting.... I've always wanted to see this done! Awesome.... please tell me the mk3 turbo engine is going into a mk1 though? :)
Hey that back end looks promising for finding space for the V6 plenum.
What driveshaft config are you thinking of; is the track similar to the Mk1/Mk2?
Will emissions be an issue- cat?
Just bonkers. Good luck, this one's a little special :)
Good luck on this. Will watch closely:)
MK3 V6 nice - Hey Paul i bet its alot easier without all the rusted bolts etc
waiting for the next instalment :popcorn:
SlipSlide
20-09-2007, 21:14
Fair play and good luck with the build.
Top job - put that engine in a rust bucket :)
loadswine
20-09-2007, 21:33
Hopefully paul won't find too many rusted bolts. I bought the car last year with the turbo kit already fitted, but not the best install. I bought it as a bit of a project really, as I thought it had potential. Only 19k on the clock now! The previous owner had put a lot of money into the car, but I thought it neede tidying up here and there. Its got some extra chassis bracing now and the calipers were all remanufactured in the spring and Black diamond pads fitted all round and RBF600 fluid put in. The turbo was taken out also at that time and I was originally going to go for a different turbo setup, but lack of response from Thor meant that I reinstalled the PE instead. Soon after that I came upon TB and saw some of your amazing V6s, went for a ride in Lodgeman' Mk1.6 and I was hooked. The rest is history!
The Woodsport history book gets another chapter now.
I love the look of your car, Nigel, with the hardtop on. It's the best looking Mk3 I've seen, aside from the TRD one!
Jiff Lemon
20-09-2007, 21:56
Oh man, why does this one have to start whilst I'm moving house?
Going to be a VERY interesting thread to follow! Can't wait to see the results
loadswine
20-09-2007, 21:56
Cheers Johnny. I guess the hardtop will be going back on when it comes home.
Well , I say that, but the prospect of top down V6 soundtrack would make me quite happy to drive topless in the rain. Ooer missus!
You'll have the same with your soft top mate, when the spyder gets sorted.:thumbsup:
Sweet, been wondering when this was gonna happen.
Again, what's the crack with the cat, are you gonna make a fake one or a swappable unit for the MOT?
It is a nice looking motor,look forward to seeing it at the rr day.
Are mk3's lighter or heavier than mk2's?
Do bears wear funny hats?
Does a bear shit in the woods...
Lighter than the mk1 even. This should be very impressive...
What V6 will be used though, the more tweakable 3VZ, or the lighter 1MZ...
1MZ with throttle bodies and hood down, mmmmmmmmmm.... Would suit a Hairdresser with a chainsaw (this King Cobra beer is good stuff) :jump:
loadswine
20-09-2007, 22:53
I weighed the car before it went up and it tips the scales at 1000kg to the nearest 20kg. Its having the 3vz. Throttle bodies? Maybe one day!
Cat wise, Paul and I have had a chat about this and the mot rules. Apparently, if you have an engine from a car of a different age and its been swapped in, you can use the age of the car or the engine, whichever is older to determine the extent of emission compliance required, so , if I understood things correctly, Paul can stae the lump is from ,say a 92 car that did not need a cat and it will be tested for a 92 non cat output. At least that's what I think. It didn't have a cat before actually!:shhh:
Ah yes, of course, forgot it went on the older "item". Sorted.
What sorta suspension you running then, as i understand it the standard stuff is pretty good. How sweet is an uprated setup gonna be? :freak3:
millentubby
21-09-2007, 00:07
Spit took me out in his mk3 turbo when he came north for a meet - I was SO impressed! This is going to be truly awesome when it's finished...I can feels it in me bones :D
Its about time somebody gave it a go
stupid questions time...is it gonna go in between the rails, or will it need some work like Lilly's?
will you need too cut a hole too get at the dipstick/oil filler?or are you going too relocate it/twist the motor back further too get clearance(and if you do...will you need too change the sump?)?..(maybe thats not a silly question)
will the 3v bolt too the MRs box too, or will it need an adaptor plate?and if neither what option have you chosen?
ok so maybe none are silly...
Paul Woods
21-09-2007, 07:00
emissions wise it goes on the older of the two,car or engine...in this case engine....so providing we use a 91,92 engine it wont need a cat test. (the onus is on the vehicle owner to prove the age of the engine at MOT time but a covering letter from us should be ample)
good questions sketchy,theres a load of problems with this swap...each one needs a special solution.... the mk3 gearbox wont fit onto the v6 without an adapter plate,and i dont think its up to the job long term so mk2 gearbox will be used.
The engine should just about sit between the rails,tight though! Im also trying to do another first by using the NA celica driveshaft set up,that is a celica has a supported shaft arrangement like a mk2 turbo and indeed like the mk3 currently has.If i manage to pull that off then it becomes an instant option for mk1 and mk2 v6 swappers.....equal length shafts are cool=no torque steer.
very similar track width to a mk1 JB so no issues there and yes plenty of plenum space once we chop out part of the rear slam panel that the engine lid catch is on,all of this area will need to be reinforced and braced.
Other issues we face.....
Gear cables,mk3 ones are no use,so mk1 or mk2 cables will be used.
Oil filler cap will be buried under the parcel shelf area as will the dipstick making access to those almost impossible so both will need relocating.
Im going to try to make an access panel under the parcel shelf for longer term access to stuff like the front bank of spark plugs.
The oil filter is looking too tight for removal although thats just a guess.....i will probably have to fit a remote fit kit for that.
So thats the initial problems,im sure there will be plenty more!
lol don't worry about the problems you've thought of, Paul. It's the ones you can't think of that you need to worry about :D
loadswine
21-09-2007, 08:14
What sorta suspension you running then, as i understand it the standard stuff is pretty good. How sweet is an uprated setup gonna be? :freak3:
I have Tein SS on there, so we can adjust as necessary. The brakes should be up to the task as well, being new with upgraded fluid,pads and SS lines, and the discs are pretty new grooved items.
Millentubby, yes Ste's (Spit) car is awesome. He is running a C2 turbo that he installed himself and churns out close to 270 horses.
Nigel, what pads are you using? I've had the Carbotech on mine and they're incredible!
Mind what i said about shorter oil filters, we had to use a stubby one on the Mi16 conversion.
Top job - put that engine in a rust bucket :)
You mean a MK1 yeah? :hidesbehi :thumbsup:
You mean a MK1 yeah? :hidesbehi :thumbsup:
He's not slow is he?
:hand: lol
He's not slow is he?
:hand: lol
Not with a V6SC he's not - and a Hydra getting fitted soon! :thumbsup:
loadswine
21-09-2007, 14:26
Johnny, the pads are Black diamonds, they work pretty well and keep the dust to a minimum. You've seen the wheels, so it was a bit of a priority!
Paul Woods
21-09-2007, 19:12
todays updaterage....
had to go out....TWICE! to get the right socket for the hub nuts on this car....for reference its a 30mm bi-hex socket...pretty much the only one i didnt have! :)
once the shafts were out of the way the engine was lowered to the floor...as a point of interest toyota didnt fit any engine lifting hooks to this one which caused lots of amusement when we looked for somewhere to hang the chain from lol
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/130.jpg
And the empty bay....looks a lot bigger now...thank god!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/131.jpg
here is the wiring plugs at the power FC ecu.... ive got to make sense of these for wiring up the camry ecu.... gulp!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/132.jpg
Also i removed the petrol pump to make sure all was well,its had a poor install with a previous fuel pressure regulator cobbled into the pump housing,silicone sealant and cable ties,the usual bodge.....no wonder it was leaking nigel. It has now been ripped out and reverted back to the standard fuel system which will work perfectly with the 6.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/133.jpg
Finally today i took out the interior and centre console to have a look at the control linkage.....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/134.jpg
The bloody thing works the opposite way around to a mk1 or mk2 selector! when the stick moves forward it pushes the cable instead of pulling it like we want on a mk1/mk2 set up.
We gave this a few hours of thought and the only way around this is to custom build a mk3 friendly shifter out of a mk2 one,this means we can use mk2 cables (which themselves will need extending) and a custom bracket on the tunnel to locate them.Lots of unforseen work but projects like this always work out that way,at least we have a master plan that will work.Doing it this way also means the centre console should not need modifying....we hope!
Paul, syour comment on teh fuel system, roadster us returnless 3VZ is a return system?
you commented that you were leaving the system as is so does that mean modifying the 3VZ rail?
Paul Woods
21-09-2007, 19:22
also I had a quick measure up...
the v6 plus mk2NA gearbox total width is only 1cm,thats 10mm wider than the 1zz on the 6 speeder! i couldnt believe it,i was expecting inches difference not just 10mm.....this is good news!
Paul Woods
21-09-2007, 19:24
hi mate,nigels roadster has a return system in place,or else its a ventilation pipe ive found but either way it will work perfectly as a return if it isnt.
loadswine
21-09-2007, 20:10
Brilliant work Paul, mega progress mate.:thumbsup:
Does the 3vz have its own return system on board anyway? Glad the old pump has gone, the top of the tank area looks better already, its always bugged me. Will you be putting a Walbro in for me? as it might be an idea to future proof that part of the sytem if possible. Am I right in thinking that the ones that have upgraded fuel pumps have had a bit more oomph?
Good news on the length of the new lump in relation to stock.
I'm glad you've figured out how to approach the gearchange cables, that looks a prickly one to me.
As for the wiring, I think that some of the standard wiring alteration might be to eliminate the standard immobiliser that can't be supported with the Power FC. Wiring scares the life out of me, if anyone can unravel that, I'm sure you can.:cool:
That engine bay doesn't look that much different in size to the other Mks when its empty. I'm sure you've already measured everything in all possible directions!
What do you think of the paintwork in the bay itself? Toyota put very little paint in that area as far as I can tell, just wondered whether you think it could do with some more paint?
Looking at this , I still find it a bit surreal to think " this is my car"
Real TB stuff for sure.
Paul Woods
21-09-2007, 20:22
hi mate,the 3vz has a return set up,so this pipe ive found (hard to tell what it was originally because the pump plumbing was a bodge up from the previous fitter) will act as the return....im only guessing that because ste has said roadsters dont have return pipes that it must be a vent...but it'll work grand as a return for the 3vz.
Yep ugraded pumps mean more fuel flowing to the rail and a little more oomph.
The selector is going to need a full days work just on that alone but its got to be done,we couldnt think of any other way really....you will see how that progresses over time.
Anth and i both commented on the lack of paint in that bay,pretty shocking really...we said now why didnt they flash the spray gun over the bay as well as the outside! ive got major welding to do in the bay so it will need paint anyway,might as well do the whole lot!
yep thats the vent pipe for the charcoal canistor for EVAP
never even thought of using that but should be fine
loadswine
21-09-2007, 20:49
Cool stuff Paul. Could you put a Walbro in for me then please?
Sorry about the amount of work involved with the gearchange mechanism, but it might have a slicker change after its done than before. It was always a bit notchy with the short shifter to be honest, so might be good news driving wise.:driving:
Mark and I thought the paint might be a bit sparse, so spray away Anth!
Thanks for confirming what the vent was as well Mark.:thumbsup:
Paul Woods
21-09-2007, 21:13
cool its an EVAP line....well its now a fuel return lol cant think of any reason why that shouldnt work as it feeds directly into the top of the pump housing :thumbsup:
loadswine
21-09-2007, 21:14
Another thought Paul, that Mark has just put up on mr2roc, is that , if the cables are a pain, how about going for an adaptor plate and using the 6 speeder after all. Or would the flywheel not fit the bell housing?
Whore of Babylon
22-09-2007, 02:43
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u293/muhamidakbar/BigKevMk3.jpg
Paul Woods
22-09-2007, 08:05
well i wont totally rule out using the mk3 6 speeder just yet until i have seen the gearbox and flywheel etc but one thing ive already noticed,the mk3 6 speeder is 20mm longer than the 5 speed mk2 NA box,so that 20mm might matter by the time i add an adapter plate and with the extra 10mm v6 width.....so it would mean custom mounting the mk3 box anyway,so id be just as well off using the mk2 box.
Lets see what happens,if its possible at all to use the mk3 box then that will take away a few problems.
One more thing,the mk3 shafts supported carrier wont line up with the v6 mounting point so i would have to make a custom carrier bracket... basically what you gain by doing one thing you lose somewhere else :)
If you can make the mk3 6spd box work, you'll increase the acceleration of the car...
Make even more use of that torque!
loadswine
22-09-2007, 10:34
Yes it would be ace to use the 6 speed, but I've just had a thought... I've already bought the 5s-fe Fidanza flywheel and the corresponding ACT 6 puck clutch. Now I wonder if they will fit with the 6 speed?
Mind you I'm okay with selling those on to another swap and going for alternatives.:hmm:
I tell you Paul, you're the man as far as I'm concerned, sorting all this lot would make my brain curl, though I'm trying to keep up. I might learn the odd thing along the way here.;)
Paul Woods
22-09-2007, 10:41
yes good point,i doubt the 5s-fe flywheel will fit inside the 1zz bellhousing...and the clutch plate will probably be different splines too.... i dont think its a goer in all honesty plus the starter motor sort of condemns it anyway.....i wont say never though.
Not sure if they'd work, in fact, I'm sure they won't :(
Ach he's done it all before, he won't tell you but he's already converted Becky's car to a V6, he's just stringing this out for dramatic effect.
loadswine
22-09-2007, 10:47
lol lol He'll get you for that one mate!
millentubby
22-09-2007, 11:36
Ach he's done it all before, he won't tell you but he's already converted Becky's car to a V6, he's just stringing this out for dramatic effect.
I thought we weren't allowed to talk about that Olie?
Better not mention that he's twincharged it too.
Paul Woods
22-09-2007, 11:43
i'll string you pair out for dramatic effect! :)
cool, now theres an option that would keep her quiet and at 975kg would keep me quiet aswell :) i could have the best of both worlds, watching with interest.
Whore of Babylon
23-09-2007, 02:07
Paul,
So V6ing the MK3 will be quite difficult campared to the SW20? Do you plan to make many changes to the mounting locations moving the weight around much? Or do you think you can mostly get it to bolt up.
Wob,
Paul Woods
23-09-2007, 09:06
well i dont have much say about where the engine goes,its determined by the driveshafts you see....endfloat has to be the same left to right and as straight as possible so that pretty much dictates the engine position...well that and the fact ive bugger all room to play with anyway!
The drivers mount will be a mk1 v6 replica and the passenger mount will use the mk3 mount with a modified plate that bolts to the gearbox,not a lot to do on that side i dont think.
Torque mounts,the rear one will be very easy,i think ive got loads of options there,front one looks tight for space so will need a nice compact design.
It certainly wont just bolt up though and its way more difficult than a mk2 v6....id say its quite a bit more difficult than a mk1 v6 too....ask me when ive banged out 20 of them lol
loadswine
23-09-2007, 10:06
Trust me to be difficult!:icon_conf
Trust me to be difficult!:icon_conf
Don't worry about it mate, it's all he deserves!
But, think about the car you're going to have afterwards. Going to be so worth it. I want to come over for pick up day to hear that car running! :thumbsup:
Hear it running? I want to see how it goes through and out of corners.
If it's as good as they say, which i seriously think it is.
loadswine
23-09-2007, 15:51
Cheers for the encouragement guys. Yes, I know it will be worth it and I'm more than happy to share the experience with as many as I can.
Handling wise, I hope it will handle just as well, and may even make it more planted than before. If Alan's Mk1.6 is anything to go by, then it will be ace.
Paul Woods
23-09-2007, 16:06
yes the handling is a grey area....we just wont know until its done but id guess it should be comparable to the mk1 v6's
I'd say better .. primarily because the chassis is 20 years further down the line in terms of technology and materials
loadswine
23-09-2007, 17:10
Well it does have a fair bit of underbody bracing, and did a splendid job of dealing with the twisties before, so the basic foundation is pretty good.
Paul Woods
23-09-2007, 18:29
yeah anth and i were particularly impressed by the underbody bracing.
We will of course be adding a bit more in the engine bay,just to overengineer things a bit
loadswine
23-09-2007, 19:02
That's the stuff mate. It would be nice to have a flat undertray under the whole car, as well, but don't know if that would make a difference. A rear tray would be ace though.
I'll send you the rear underbrace that I have , as soon as I get the two arms that go with it , that another roc member has in his garage.
http://www.3point0racing.com/guides/rmb.pdf
These are the fitment details, to show you what they look like.
Hmmmm must watch this carefully
Paul Woods
23-09-2007, 19:22
you thinking of buying a roadster JB?
nigel i dont think there will be room to hang that brace but if i rejig it i might be able to get it fitted,cant promise though
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/143.jpg
loadswine
23-09-2007, 19:26
Rejig away mate, no probs,:thumbsup: TBH, I didn't think for one moment it would fit without some part of it being altered. I think it would assist in stiffening up the rear end though.
If you'd rather do your own one, that's fine by me, I'll flog the one I have to a Roadster owner.
Paul Woods
23-09-2007, 19:29
looking at the pic it would seem its going to interfere with the exhaust downpipes massively among other things so yes a complete rejig or make from scratch might be the way forward
loadswine
23-09-2007, 20:08
I'd rather have one that you make from scratch if poss paul, as that way it should allow for all the pipework that's there. ( Or will be there! lol)
just so you know Paul that brace is Ali
I spy with my little eye, something freakin kewl over at WoodsportTV.
loadswine
24-09-2007, 16:45
Yes Ollie, offering up of a slightly larger engine than standard methinks!
I'm just hoping that I don't get a phonecall saying sorry dude it doesn't fit.:fingersx:
Paul Woods
24-09-2007, 18:29
sorry dude it doesnt fit..... :)
interesting update in a mo when ive uploaded some pics :thumbsup:
got you all worried now havent i lol
Paul Woods
24-09-2007, 19:03
well today we chopped out the rear panel,its in the way plus i fancied having fun with the plasma cutter....any excuse!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/156.jpg
And 5 minutes later its completely gone....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/157.jpg
This will be replaced by stronger tubing running to the chassis in the same way plus an extra one running side to side.
Next it was time to stop messing around and get an engine in the hole.....for this excercise we used an old scrap v6 block,bolted a gearbox to it and slotted it under the car.....note these are not the units we will be using,oh no.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/158.jpg
Then hoisted it into the bay....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/159.jpg
It only fits you know! we have 1/2" of clearance both sides of the engine/box....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/160.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/161.jpg
I can even notch these rails out a smidge if i need more space,but i dont think its necessary......we even closed the engine lid and theres bags of space....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/162.jpg
The sump sits flush with the floor level and things couldnt be better.....obviously we have issues with the oil filler cap and dipstick but for now the engine will fit.
After this we went a stage further and fitted the driveshafts too...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/163.jpg
Next job will be to support the engine and get the left/right location correct....then it looks like we will have to slightly notch out the rear subframe to fit around the diff,easy peasy.
Marksman
24-09-2007, 19:05
That's all rather interesting :hmm:
Owen.
Must be an echo in there.... May as well turbo it now....rotflmao
Loadsa Wine Jnr
24-09-2007, 20:04
That Looks PROPER mean!!!
Can't wait to drive it!!
loadswine
24-09-2007, 20:17
Ah yes! Mmmmm ,we'll see Dave.:freak3:
Paul, you bugger, I looked down and saw just the first part of the comment and thought Oh Noooo! and then realised you were yanking my chain! lol
That's a nice bit of Twobrutalism there to get us going.
But, IT FITS ! Yay! :jump:
Okay , not the easiest swap in the world I guess, but it will work, so relieved.
Not a lot of extra room, but hey, half inch is not bad. You certainly did your homework with the tape measure. I'm chuffed to bits just to see it sitting there in the Mk3 bay. The engine cover shuts as well, superb!
Gary Symons
24-09-2007, 20:52
Out of interest, has anyone done the sums for the final weight of this car? I would image it to be pretty light :thumbsup:.
Like the cradle for the engine Paul - good idea for mass production!
loadswine
24-09-2007, 21:05
Weight was one of my earlier concerns. Yes, the 3vz will weigh a fair bit more than the 1zz that was in there, but Paul is using a NA box and the turbo and all associated plumbing, chargecooler etc also has now gone.
I put it on the weighbridge before it went up to Woodsport and it was 1000Kg, to the nearest 20kg. I think the 3vz with gearbox must weigh somewhere in the region of 200kg, the 1zz on its own , I think is around 100kg plus the 6speed box must be 40 kg or thereabouts. So my guess would be another 50 to 60 kg on top of stock.
That's just my guess, we could run a sweep on it if you like, but remember it will only be weighed again on the same weighbridge that is in 20kg steps.
whooah - there's alot more work in fitting a V6 into a mk3 - definately not a diy job
Keep up the good work
The turbo and chargecooler probaly weigh a fir bit so it probably wont weigh much more than it did before. 1000KG is pretty good going, is the book figure for a stock car not 950KG??
Gary Symons
24-09-2007, 21:28
The turbo and chargecooler probaly weigh a fir bit so it probably wont weigh much more than it did before. 1000KG is pretty good going, is the book figure for a stock car not 950KG??
As I thought, pretty light then, interested to see how this one goes. lets see some vids when its done :driving:
loadswine
24-09-2007, 21:33
Hopefully it will be reasonably light. Murf, the stock figure is in the 950 to 970 region I think. The facelift models are a little heavier due to additional bracing and the 6 speed box, which is surprisingly heavier than the 5 speed ( well when its sitting on your shoulder in a pit it is! lol)
The weight overall should be okay, so good power to weight ratio.
I'm hoping this will be all the MR2 I've ever wanted.
I'm hoping this will be all the MR2 I've ever wanted.
No rust, thats all the MR2 ive ever wanted :blabla:
Marksman
24-09-2007, 23:24
whooah - there's alot more work in fitting a V6 into a mk3 - definately not a diy job
:slap:
:slap:
:slap:
:slap:
:slap:
:slap:
:slap:
:slap:
Owen.
Paul Woods
25-09-2007, 07:13
i think owens trying to suggest everyone should try this at home,but on a mk1 of course :)
BTW owen how do you stand on mk3's ? do you have the same loathing as the probes?
HOT OFF THE PRESS!
now selling in the TB shop,owen mk1 goggles....these attractive gogs let the user only see a mk1 regardless of what they are actually looking at lol
also available with a polished turd lens for mk2 meets lol
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/169.jpg
Whore of Babylon
25-09-2007, 07:52
Lol, i dont need goggels to have MR2 tunnel vision
Is this the first one in europe then?
Has it been done in the us?
Tommytank
25-09-2007, 13:48
Any further thoughts on oil dipstick/filler problems?
Shame the cam covers arent symmetrical like old Rover V8s, thats how i usually solved those problems, just whip em over!
Are the sumps pressed steel or cast on those? If pressed steel then a makeshift dipstick in another location could possibly be welded in with some sump volume sums. Mind you, having not actually seen a v6 lump out in the flesh, i could be waffling pointlessly here.
I have worked on the mk3s doin an engine change before tho, and hats off Paul, i dont envy you in the slightest! 17 fingers and 3 hands are usually required to work on those sluts!!
loadswine
25-09-2007, 15:05
Is this the first one in europe then?
Has it been done in the us?
Its been done once in the US, to my knowledge and I don't know of any others except the prototype that Toyota built themselves with a 1MZ in it.
Pretty sure its the first in Europe , like being different!
I think Paul is going to create a new filler on the front cover for me.
The dipstick fix has been thought about, but Paul is working on that one.
the US one used a 1MZ
so think this is teh first ever with a 3VZ
Paul Woods
25-09-2007, 18:57
yep first ever 3vz and only the 3rd ever v6 mk3 ive heard about,there was another US car that briefly had a 3s-gte fitted but 1 hour after driving it he pulled the motor to install a 1mz instead.
The cam covers on these babies are in fact swappable,so thats how im tackling the oil filler,however the filler will still be under the fannymould so it will still need modifying.The dipstick will be extended to swing over the engine,in some respects it might be easier to insert than a standard v6!
lodgeman
25-09-2007, 19:13
cant you have a remote filler cap with a pipe to the cam cover? put it where you like then!
Paul Woods
25-09-2007, 19:26
Today i spent ages getting the engine in the right location,but to get it correct left to right meant having the suspension back on so the hubs were held in place....this means refitting the subframe.Now its the one area thats going to foul the diff area of the gearbox so we marked off the offending area and cut it out with the plasma.....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/171.jpg
This hole will now be braced up internally then the wound seam welded up with thicker plates and extra strengthening added later on,shouldnt be any weaker,if anything stronger than before.
So with the engine sitting exactly right i started on the left side mount,a combination of mk3 mount and mk2 mount with joining plates between....here is the mk2 side and the mk3 side....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/172.jpg
And then i cut out two 5mm thick plates to join the two together,even made templates for future mounts....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/173.jpg
Once holes were drilled in the plates i welded them to the mk2 mount....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/174.jpg
So thats the left mount done,it needs reshaping and profiling to make it more pleasing to look at but it mechanically works and strong as hell.
This bolts to the mk3 mount but needs a longer bolt because the plates dont hug the mount,they need a 10mm spacer each side of the mount.The reason for this is if id welded them flush to the mk3 mount you would never be able to remove the mount from the gearbox because the plates would be over the top of the bolts holding it to the gearbox.
1 mount done,3 to go....
Paul Woods
25-09-2007, 19:32
yep al thats pretty much whats being done once the covers themselves are swapped over :thumbsup:
loadswine
25-09-2007, 20:36
More brilliant stuff. I have to remind myself that its my car I'm looking at here! lol Its intriguing to hear the solutions evolve as it all goes on. I know this sort of thing was done with the mk1 and mk2 when those swaps started out, but fascinating for me, as I wasn't priveliged to see those at that time.
As an owner you soon get used to this bit or that bit cut out or "modified"
Just as well I'm not doing it!
The oil filter relocation kit has been ordered as well Paul, it'll be sent Express apparently.
I think the one in the US used a 3mz actually. (3.3lt V6 for a lexus RX)
Marksman
26-09-2007, 07:08
i think owens trying to suggest everyone should try this at home,but on a mk1 of course :)
BTW owen how do you stand on mk3's ? do you have the same loathing as the probes?
HOT OFF THE PRESS!
now selling in the TB shop,owen mk1 goggles....these attractive gogs let the user only see a mk1 regardless of what they are actually looking at lol
also available with a polished turd lens for mk2 meets lol
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/169.jpg
rotflmao Love the goggles Paul :thumbsup: The second version still in the prototype stage doesn't hide the MK2's, it just automatically places red flashing cross-hairs over them and asks, in a sexy Scottish voice, if the wearer would like to arm photon torpedoes...
As for the MK3? Well at first I wasn't convinced. I thought the designers had the right idea in reversing the alarming MK2 trends by going back to basics with a light, nimble chassis. Then they took the almost unique feature of the T-bar and put a rag top on it when the market had loads already. In the true Japanese stereotype they couldn't think of any original lines so got their tracing paper out and copied the Europeans. Boxter front end, fair enough. Not sure why they chose the MGF for the sides but at least it joins the front to the back. And what a back. Why on earth would they copy the lines of Battesy power station? That said it all seems to work somehow and I rather like it. Then the legal dept. got a hold of the design and realised that if an American crashed their MK3 they'd sue the company. This halted engine evolution and led to the fitting of a motor out of a food blender.
So all in all I ought to dislike the car but I don't at all. I really think that there is a superb car just trying to break out of the MK3. Not really one for body kits normally but I really think that the MK3 can be tied together by a good one. Add a Woodsport conversion to the mix and a hell of a car is born. Loadswine you've got a hell of a nice project going there :thumbsup:
Oh and in 5 years or so I will make a T-bar MK3, er maybe!
Owen.
Paul Woods
26-09-2007, 07:23
bloody hell nige,owens given the mk3 the thumbs up! you just escaped years of forum baiting :) i think hes reserving his sarcasm powers for the mk2 lot :)
loadswine
26-09-2007, 09:08
Nice one Owen.:thumbsup:
Escaping vast portions of forum baiting is excellent.
Bet i get a tirade now.:hidesbehi
bloody hell nige,owens given the mk3 the thumbs up! you just escaped years of forum baiting :) i think hes reserving his sarcasm powers for the mk2 lot :)
You think?
I think the one in the US used a 3mz actually. (3.3lt V6 for a lexus RX)
it does now, he swapped from teh 1MZ soon after he made it work
The 3MZ is a fine engine.
I'd love to transplant the engine from the IS350 (2GR-FSE) into a Mk2. It's rated at 315bhp in standard form with Toyota tuning. I'd imagine a good standalone and tune would have that seeing around 330-340bhp N/A.
Paul Woods
26-09-2007, 19:24
well today the plan was to make just the drivers side engine mount work.....it didnt go to plan.....
I ended up getting all FOUR mounts done instead! never done as much in one day but the swap gods were smiling down on me and everything just seemed to click into place,not often i get days like that.
Anyway heres todays progress....i modified the stock v6 engine bracket to take a mk2 engine mount
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/177.jpg
Then i made two cardboard templates of the side mounts for the chassis... and cut these out of 5mm steel with the plasma cutter....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/178.jpg
These plates have been designed in such a way that they can be braced together at the top without impeding the engine mount,i learned this lesson building mk1 turbos and if you bridge the mount together without thinking it means you can never remove the engine mount to do timing belts....not good!
Here are the plates drilled and fitted to the mount and bolted ready for welding....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/179.jpg
With the brackets welded it was time to take away the engine crane and all jacks and stands supporting it and the engine is now free hanging on its new mounts in the bay....hooray! Its MM perfect in the left/right location,sits 100% level to the car,i checked many times! and its height is perfect,im very happy.
So with that out of the way i thought lets have a crack at the rear torque mount,i expected it to be a nightmare but it was pretty straightforward.
First i took the original mk3 bracket and cut a little off it so it cleared the subframe,would you believe the mk3 mount bolted to the mk2 box in the right place? as i said it was a good day and the swap gods smiled! Here is the bracket fitted and i also cut the mounting bracket off the subframe side and reattached that....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/180.jpg
Next i offered up the mounting block into its normal position,as you can see the bolt hole is miles away....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/181.jpg
However,turn said block upside down and the bolt hole suddenly appears in exactly the right place! you wouldnt credit it would you!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/182.jpg
More gods smiling down on woodsy..... this was all then tack welded in situ.
After that i added a side arm onto the gearbox bracket that catches a bolt hole,this is present on the mk2 mount so why not include it now....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/183.jpg
Here is the whole rear torque mount finished off the car....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/184.jpg
Again it needs tidying and painting but it works and fits perfectly.
So going for the full set of four i set about making the front mount.....now this fella was not as simple as the rest. For a start the stock mk3 mount rubber was a pathetic piece of shite that no way was going to hold the torque of a bucking v6 under nigels heavy right foot! here is said mount....weedy!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/185.jpg
Ive had stronger farts than that..... so i definately had to get a mk2 mount on there so i could fit a prothane bush kit.... so here is all three mount sections that i had to play with,mk3,mk2 and mk2 gearbox bracket....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/186.jpg
You can see how much bigger the mk2 mount is (rubber missing but using prothane anyway) So the plan was to cut all the component parts off these mounts....heres the mk3 mount with its brackets chopped off....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/187.jpg
And the mk2 mount with its ring savaged...oer....obviously.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/188.jpg
So the brackets were attached to the chassis as per normal....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/189.jpg
And the mk2 ring inserted between the brackets and tack welded.....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/190.jpg
Cor! much better,i do like a big ring....
Then the plate that bolts to the gearbox was chopped up and the plate bolted to the gearbox,also i used an NA rubber insert to get the hole centre right in the mount....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/191.jpg
then i used what was left of the mounts to bridge between the two...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/192.jpg
This still needs seam welding but its a working mount....im rather chuffed with the amount i got done today.
Gary Symons
26-09-2007, 19:32
Top work as usual :thumbsup:. After all the fun I am having with leaks and rust on the mk1 i could be seriously tempted by one of these clean rust free Mk3's. How easy is the 3sgte swap into a mk3? Assume its been done?
Paul Woods
26-09-2007, 19:35
theres less space for a 3s-gte than a v6 believe it or not gaz....id say the chassis rails or at least one chassis rail would need notching.
oh you can also see why we need the filter relocation kit.....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/193.jpg
No way thats coming off in situ!
Also heres the space ive got for the AC pump....nigels given me an extra challenge to retain the AC! im game!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/194.jpg
loadswine
26-09-2007, 19:57
That lot is nothing short of amazing!:thumbsup: I couldn't believe the rear mount turning upside down and fitting perfectly. Wow, the swap gods were with you today mate.
I supoose all the swappees have been like me at the end of each day's swapping activity....:jump: :dance: :hyper: :jump: I am totally amazed at how quickly this is going. Like has been said, the area isn't covered in rust and other nasties, so I guess that might help a bit. (Not all Mk3s are as clean as mine, it hardly ever goes out in the rain.. yes wooss! no I am happy to drive in the cold with top off Oooerr missus!)
I knew you'd go for the aircon challenge mate, you and your big ring and all! lol
Ace stuff, I'm cheering you on from here.:clap:
That is damn quick work. If that'd been any other garage they'd still be measuring it up.
Wanna come up and sort my torque mounts for me please chief? :mrgreen:
What's the craic with the engine and gearbox mount, do they get polyurethaned aswell or just the torque mounts?
Paul Woods
27-09-2007, 07:19
just one of the torque mounts for now olie,the engine mounts just hold weight so no need to poly them.
Awesome work Paul.
Johnny G You might like to consider the 2GR-FZE in the TRD Aurion
241KW = 323hp @ 6400rpm
400NM = 295lb-ft @ 4000rpm
(I think thats right)
Its a 2GR-FE with a eaton TVS on it. Don't know which model or what other tricks TRD done to it though.
Oh yeah. It's the prices of these lumps though, and if they'd actually and/or mate up to the E153/S51/S54 boxes!
Would be lovely though.
For the sake if 8 bhp though I'd stay with an N/A as it's a little less weight and a good exhaust and tune would soon sort that, and more! :)
Love to see the sollutions to problems as they go along. Looking great now Paul!:)
Paul Woods
27-09-2007, 18:41
Looking great now Paul!
thanks shorty! not often i hear that from another bloke though.... :ghey:
Paul Woods
27-09-2007, 19:08
today i thought id have a go at the big air con challenge nigel threw down! paul i want to retain the AC on my mk3!! no ifs buts or maybes! :)
So i decided to see how big an effort it was going to be.....i started by removing the mk3 AC pump.....its a small unit,i dont think we have room to fit the big camry AC pump and its hoses are totally different to the mk3 body hoses on the AC,so getting the mk3 pump to run would be a massive bonus.
Here it is....nice n compact....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/196.jpg
And here is the v6 AC bracket that normally holds the camry AC pump onto the engine....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/197.jpg
its a completely different unit to the mk3 pump so the very last thing i was expecting was this....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/198.jpg
This swap just keeps getting better and better! the mk3 pump only bloody bolts straight onto the v6 bracket! god i love toyota! woohoo! do a little dance,make a little love...get down tonight! :)
Although i got too carried away....when i bolted the AC bracket onto a v6 block this is the pulley alignment....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/199.jpg
Oof! nowhere near lining up with the outside 6 rib pulley....it did however line up with the 4 rib pulley on the inside but this would have no means of tensioning the belt,unless i made a tensioner....which would be a ballache and im not sure we have space for one anyway....bugger!
So only one thing for it,move the whole AC bracket outboard to meet the outer pulley (its tensioned off the alternator so thats why it would be good)
I fitted longer bolts to the bracket sides....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/200.jpg
And chopped away part of the alternator bracket that the pump would foul as it was moved outboard....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/201.jpg
Then i rechecked alignment....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/202.jpg
cock on! how d'ya like them apples?
However the AC bracket bolt holes on the block face no longer lined up....so i chopped them out and welded these new bolt holes into the correct place....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/203.jpg
So now the whole bracket is relocated about 25mm further outboard,the pump pulley lines up with the outer pulley,its got a tensioner (alternator),the pipes will plug straight onto the car and the cheerleader is saved (save the cheerleader,save the world!) :)
Not such a big deal after all,just a little lateral thinking....AC sorted. :thumbsup:
like it when you bend over the mk3 on the webcam. Oops, did i say too much?:gay:
loadswine
27-09-2007, 20:05
Genius Paul , hero indeed! ( another popular TV reference) :praise2:
How good is that! Can't believe how the a/c bolts up to the camry bracket, and it is a nice compact compressor , the V6 won't even feel its on board!
Pipework justs hooks up as before. Carol (my missus) will be very pleased too, though I have to say she is cheering you on as well mate.
You make me sound like a right git, with the challenge, but only laid it down cos I knew that you'll always be up for it! Not wrong eh?:thumbsup:
So is this still the scrap block we are looking at, or is this actually my engine?
For my next challenge, its a super porting job, so I can get 240 horses at the dyno day!! ( Pushing my luck I think. lol)
Does this mk3 compressor give you any ideas about retaining the AC on a mk2 V6, or is the best method still to get the camry AC?
AC must be retained when I do mine - too friggin hot over here in the summer!
Paul Woods
28-09-2007, 12:42
AC retains very easily on the mk2 v6's shortround,just a matter of hooking up the pipes onto the v6 pump.
Nigel theres actually a way ive found of not needing an oil filter relocation kit at all.... but it means ditching the oil cooler,but it would definately all fit then.....nothing disastrous about not using an oil cooler i suppose,after all the toyota windoms 3vz-fe doesnt have one at all,just an idea that sprang to mind today,but oil relocation kit is better anyway,mount it where we like and more oil capacity.
loadswine
28-09-2007, 12:47
No worries Paul ,as the relocation kit is already bought and on its way.
Might be nice to have oil cooling , saves me having to have gauges everywhere. Talking of which, do you advise an oil pressure gauge? or is it only a problem when the engine stops running? lol
Is my idea of a stubby filter of no use at all then?
Don't talk to Aussies about stubbies, we will all be vomiting in our tents after a slab of those.
:woods:
Paul Woods
28-09-2007, 18:11
even a stubby filter wouldnt clear olie,but the relocation kit is a thing of beauty and sorts the problem the proper way.
No need for an oil pressure gauge nigel,not unless you really want one.
Paul Woods
28-09-2007, 18:29
not much done today as i was finishing off whoozys car.....but we have more good news.... here is the clearance betwen the cam cover and parcel shelf....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/208.jpg
It was previously thought we would need an access panel chopped in the parcel shelf to change the spark plugs.....not so! with a 3" extension,a wobble joint and a ratchet i was able to change them quite easily....so i will be supplying all mk3 v6 swaps with this exact piece of equipment so its not an issue,and no chopping of the parcel shelf....see you're now getting free tools with my swaps lol
Also we took a final look at the dummy v6 sat in the bay....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/209.jpg
Everything looks absolutely spot on..... so we pulled it out for final engine mount welding....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/09/210.jpg
This needs seam welding,then seam sealing and we are repainting the whole engine bay.
Also ive found a solution to the dipstick issue,more on that as it happens.
loadswine
28-09-2007, 18:46
Even more good news! No firewall cutting is a bonus. Is it just the pic, or does the original oil filler cap touch the shelf?
I can't believe the luck so far! I'm touching wood here ( not cloth! lol)
Don't want to jinx things!
I don't need an oil pressure gauge Paul, I'll be fine with just the standard stuff plus tacho fix.:thumbsup:
Finishing off Whoozy's as well, must take a look at his thread now!
Paul Woods
28-09-2007, 19:17
yep the oil filler cap is just touching... but thats going the journey anyway
Things are spookily falling into place much easier than i thought on this conversion for sure!
Gotta love toyota! its like they thought of it with the mk3 aswell.
loadswine
28-09-2007, 19:43
Yep! Toyota have the X factor! All this interchangeability ( triple word score!)
is amazing. The chaps in the factory are either really clever or amazingly lazy that they keep making stuff all the same size and fitment. Either way, I'm not complaining. :jump: :jump: Oh no, this is GREAT:jump: :jump:
Paul Woods
28-09-2007, 19:51
Then you will love this bit....
i was having trouble sleeping the other night,usually happens when ive got a lot on my mind at work,my brains still doing the bloody conversion when im trying to get to sleep!
Anyway there was i counting sheep when my brain suddenly shot one of them with a twelve bore and i sprang bolt upright in bed "fuck that cars got ABS!!!" to which i replied to myself,"shit im fitting mk2 driveshafts" ,and the voice said....."yes and the bloody ABS speed sensor rings are on nigels old mk3 CV joints!!!!"
Blind panic set in,how am i going to tell nigel hes no longer got ABS????
Didnt sleep a single wink that night....
Went to WS next day,first thing i did was check the mk2 driveshafts,oh good they have ABS pickup rings on them......then i realised the rings were in the totally wrong place,outside the hub instead of inside where the sensor was.....more panic!
heres the good bit,the dust shield on the mk2 cv joint removes and guess what fits mm perfect onto that part of the CV joint? yep the mk3 ABS ring!!!
I slept like a baby that night lol i will post details and pics of this amazing discovery when the time comes,god bless toyota
loadswine
28-09-2007, 20:18
Phew! That was a close one! Like you say Toyota does it again.
And they asked on Spyderchat "why aren't you using a Honda K20" several answers given,but not in the way they would have been answered on here. lol
I respect how conscientious you are mate, but I wouldn't want to mess with your sleep patterns. Oh heck, I am a git!!
Glad you kept me ABS though!!:boogie:
Oooh the Honda K20 ... possibly the best N/A 4cyl engine available.
loadswine
28-09-2007, 20:37
Yes, but Ahhhh! the price of them!
Paul Woods
28-09-2007, 21:04
did someone just say 4 banger? :ghey:
Not meaning to sound too argumentative, but dunno if its the best (S2000 engine takes that honer), just that its coupled to a really well ratio'd 6-speed gearbox... The old 3S-GE VVTi engine produced similar power and slightly better torque curve a few years earlier, with less technology...just a thought...
Hmmm, 217hp (Jap), 145 torques vs. 220hp, 200 torques and thats untuned really...
As said, expensive engine, and expensive to tune, although I think us Toyota owners are a bit spoilt with relatively cheap power / conversions vs. or Jap marques!
Getting away from the topic, but 3 litres was the way to go definitly (IMHO)... Who needs a gearbox...:jump:
oh yea, definately. you're preaching to the converted here mate!
loadswine
28-09-2007, 21:18
Yep, really looking forward to having a 6 pot again. I had a Triumph GT6 years ago and a 1967 S Type Jag 3.8 manual ( heaviest clutch I've ever had)
This one will be worlds apart though!
splintermcinnes
28-09-2007, 23:33
hello peeps, been away for a while on my ship, just caught up with this conversion. and as always awsome work there paul, and cant believe the swapability of these toyota bits, gotta love that!! top effort from our fearless leader once again!:thumbsup:
matt
lol ... wb fella.
this car is going to be stonking
loadswine
29-09-2007, 20:11
Paul , hope you slept well last night.:thumbsup:
Do you want me to post up Friday's bits on mr2roc?
I've been keeping the guys over on Spyderchat in the loop as well, and they seem to be encouraging and intrigued by this one. I know the roc guys are.
Paul Woods
30-09-2007, 08:44
yeah you can do nigel,that would be great mate.... i dont always have time to update all the threads
Paul Woods
01-10-2007, 18:52
today i concentrated on welding all of the support bracing back in that we chopped out,but this time its 40mm box section going in,lots of strength!
Starting with braces going rearward from the strut to the rear panel,these divert around the engine plenum and generally tidy up where we cut the rear panel....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/6.jpg
Then the next brace to add was a side to side one,this one just skirts around the back of the plenum chamber and it will also hold the repositioned engine lid catch....its important to try and retain that or we would need bonnet pins....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/7.jpg
Then i welded in two supports running from the chassis upward to the top crossbrace,basically copying toyotas original design except beefed up by 400%!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/8.jpg
Also above you will notice i welded in an extra crossbrace at the bottom of the bay,this one isnt in toyotas orginal design but i figured a bit of extra strength wont hurt....im sure if toyota had put a v6 in they would agree!
Next was the engine lid catch....i ended up chopping the original mounting bracket off the original slam panel,its purpose built for the job after all..... this was then welded into the correct position although the engine lid catch itself will need a little modifying to hit this....no biggy,i think this looks totally meant to be.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/9.jpg
below you can see everything seam welded and then i applied seam sealer to all the joints...also i braced the drivers chassis mount and seam sealed that too....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/10.jpg
So at the end of play today shes all braced up,seam sealed,engine lid catch done and bay stripped and prepped ready for painting tomorrow....that will involve celly primer and lots of red!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/11.jpg
<LITTLE BRITAIN>
http://www.8ball.co.uk/productimages/25796-2.jpg
</LITTLE BRITAIN>
Jiff Lemon
01-10-2007, 19:05
no more using that Mk3 for the weekly shop eh?
Paul Woods
01-10-2007, 19:06
theres no boot in the feckers anyway jiffy lol
loadswine
01-10-2007, 19:19
Jiff, the Mk3 doesn't have a boot at the rear, that's where the exhaust box hangs. Mind you with all that strengthening, I can tow a trailer now!! lol
To use Johnny's link, I bet that was a kerfuffle! lol
Blimey, that looks good. Its such a buzz to see bits going back in. That bonnet catch does look spot on. That extra stiffness at the back will not do the handling any harm either.
This stuff rocks Paul.:shades:
Paul Woods
01-10-2007, 19:23
nah,my crowshit welds will snap right off tony lol
loadswine
01-10-2007, 19:28
If anybody runs into the back of it, it won't be the welds they have to worry about!
I shall wreak savage vengeance upon them! :blowup:
loadswine
01-10-2007, 19:56
Oh paint codes. Now you already know the paint code Paul, but when the bumpers and side skirts were being done earlier in the year, it turned out there were 2 shades of that red. Its the lighter one of the two. If you look at my rear spoiler, we did that in the darker shade and its slightly different to the bumper which i had them do again in the lighter shade. ( we figured the spoiler on the bootlid din't show up too badly so we left that)
Mind you its inside the engine bay, so no biggie, just thought I'd mention it.
( Took me long enough:icon_conf )
Hats off to you Paul this is going to be one cracking motor when you're finished. hats off to you loadswine aswell for having the guts to be the first one to do it! It's almost convinced me to buy a mk3 now.....
you're not the only one mate ...
If Nigel ever sells, I want first dibs on that car. It looks sweet as.
loadswine
02-10-2007, 16:47
Thanks for the encouragement guys.:thumbsup:
I wouldn't trust anyone except Paul to do the conversion on my car!
Paul Woods
02-10-2007, 16:52
very brave nigel considering i havent a clue what im doing,just randomly nailing parts together in the vague hope it all works lol
loadswine
02-10-2007, 16:54
I'm glad happy coincidence and randomness is working so well then! lol
As an aside, is it just me, or is the webcam down for everybody?
Paul Woods
02-10-2007, 18:51
webcams down for everyone mate...i will sus it out in the morning.
Todays update then,i started by priming the bay and new steel with high build....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/28.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/29.jpg
Just needs a thin coat of this to prevent paint reactions.
Then i sprayed the whole thing red....seems a slightly different shade to the car but thats red for you,its a total nightmare to match up even going armed to the paintshop with the correct code.....mind you its tons better than the "brown" bay they normally have.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/30.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/31.jpg
Next up i boxed up the subframe notch with nice thick seam welded plates...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/32.jpg
Then the whole thing got metal primed....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/33.jpg
Followed by a liberal coating of 2k black....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/34.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/35.jpg
So thats engine bay ready and subframe ready... the rest of the week will be devoted to the engine and then it all gets brought together....
Oh i also made a mk3 v6 jig today,this fella will make future v6 mk3's a lot easier....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/36.jpg
Looking good,I love a bit of metal work!!!
snowtigger
02-10-2007, 19:43
sorry to butt in nice metal work and fabrication looks good as well .right thats enough polishing his ego wot is the costting of this little lot a rough ball park figure will do cause there is a lot more bracing going in to this job than mk1 or mk2 dude kudos in taking the plunge as well just goes to show how much faith u have in mr woods work a better referance u could not get o and im loving the techy a mechanical and grinding action as soon as i get my paypal account sorted i will becoming a full member of this very nice club :fart2:
loadswine
02-10-2007, 20:27
Paul, that is outstanding!! It looks as if its come out of the factory that way.
The finish is a damn site better than the factory job for sure, hardly any paint in a stock bay, not Toyota's strong point that one.
Colour is fine, the original is confusing as the bay was too dark compared to the rest of the car. I love it!!!:jump: :jump: :cool:
That subframe is a masterpiece and the catch bracket looks as if its always been there. This is rocking!:clap: :boogie:
Can you tell I'm pleased?
Next the engine eh! This is going to be a good week.
Better decide on a colour scheme soon then. Any ideas Paul?
Thanks for the thoughts on being "up for the swap". Basically, once you've read a few of these threads, you get a feel for the TB spirit and Woodsy's skill, so its not all that hard to say "go for it".
As for cost, Snowtigger, you'd best speak to Mr Woods about such things, but yes, quite a lot more involved in this than on the other ones. Its all good though! I couldn't be more pleased with the way things are going.:dance:
Paul has raised the bar again with this swap, truly amazing work! Your 2 is going to be something really special Nigel :thumbsup:
loadswine
02-10-2007, 22:00
Cheers mate! Thrilling stuff each day, should be like that to drive too.:cool:
I'd say either red cam covers with silver fannymould.
Or yellow.
Or all silver.
Your choice :mrgreen:
Whore of Babylon
02-10-2007, 23:18
Yellow Head Covers and shiny clear coated everything else.
do it, you know you want to
Paul's Reputation is infamous even over here in the states! Paul Woods for 2008!
Paul Woods
03-10-2007, 07:22
bloody hell wouldnt go that far mate! how far is the turbo from completion D?
bloody hell wouldnt go that far mate! how far is the turbo from completion D?
Motor goes in the bay in about two weeks. Then I'll start fabbing the A2W systems and the turbocharger plumbing. Still a lot of R and D left. Great job on the MK3 and the Turbo 3vz build!
Paul Woods
03-10-2007, 18:46
thanks fella :thumbsup: looking forward to seeing yours hit the road too
Paul Woods
03-10-2007, 19:05
today i was mostly hiding round the corner from the camera stripping a v6 engine down for nigels car...within a few hours it was down to the block....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/42.jpg
And the whole thing got degreased,jet washed....sump off and resealed and some paint on the block too.....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/43.jpg
We found a leaking crankshaft oil seal,just a weep from it but we fitted a brand new seal just to be sure.
More engine building tomorrow and maybe a bit of head porting.
loadswine
03-10-2007, 20:29
Wow, my engine! Okay, most folks probably don't get that excited seeing a block sitting there, but I shall, as its the actual one going into my car. I've seen many others in threads on here, and to go along the lines of the US marines : "there are many other engines just like my engine, but this one is mine"
Those piston crowns look mint.
Does the water pump seem okay on this one Paul?
More stuff tomorrow as well, and maybe some porting; Oh yes!! :hehe:
What's the colour scheme then chieftan?
loadswine
03-10-2007, 20:45
Well, I'd like to keep it as a surprise really. What do you think Paul? should I let on, or wait till its in the paint?
Need to have some suspense Olly! lol
Paul Woods
04-10-2007, 06:48
we have decided to spray the plenum with pva glue and roll it in sequins,then cover the rockers with denim and finish off the ensemble with purple ribbons on the AFM....cool eh? :hidesbehi
Marksman
04-10-2007, 06:55
You had me going then until I remembered that it's a MK3 not a MK2 :hidesbehi
Owen.
Paul Woods
04-10-2007, 07:00
lol its much easier to just call the mk2 gay you know mate lol
I suppose owen is a rugby fan...must be why he has all those homophobic "issues"....
I mean, why else would you wanna play/watch a game with odd shaped balls that are not your own...and need an excuse too hug and kiss in public without fear of repuctions...and showering with the boys, isn't seen as rude...and still be a homophobe and not say its "gay"
its ok Owen...were all freinds here..you can be honest with yourself:P
but the boy racer "culture"(if you can call it that) here has gone too far..
tempted too build a car for one of the big car shows and do everything in the worst possible taste..might take some styling cues from you AW guys...ha ha ha
loadswine
04-10-2007, 08:26
Perhaps we should have gone for burberry!!!:fart2:
Oh no! Chav alert!!!!:freak3:
might take some styling cues from you AW guys...ha ha ha
pmsl :thumbsup:
http://www.presentationresources.net/images/cheese_wedge_magnets.jpg
Why because we got the bodykit perfect from the factory.
Oh yes, yes we did.
its fine...if your aiming for the fridge/washing machine look
oh look, your's even matches colour with whats in the kitchen:thumbsup:
sorry...had too say it...well no I didnt...but jonnys probably making a bigger puddle now...
Paul Woods
04-10-2007, 18:59
well today i decided to make a nice heatshield for the front firewall,cant have nigels pint getting warm in the cubby boxes now can we!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/57.jpg
Its 1mm ally but with a bluey tinge to it,possibly anodised in some way? is that even possible?
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/58.jpg
The rest of the day was spent porting heads,no fancy equipment,no data to rely on,just me.... a selection of dremel bits and a 25,000 rpm air dremel,and goggles!...brutal!
The objective? simple....take the heads out as far as i possibly dare without putting a hole in something! ....i started by putting the inlet gasket on and spraying over it with red aerosol,this gives the boundaries on the outside of the head,you can see here the port on the left is already opened right out (ive removed a serious amount of material from these let me tell you!) and the port on the right has just had its outer lip ground down at a 45* angle so you can see how much we are removing overall from the entire port......lots! I balance the ports using my "eye dyno" and "finger dyno" lol
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/59.jpg
To give you a little idea of just how much material you can remove here is the ported head in the foreground and the unported in the background....ok the foreground is going to look bigger but the head behind is only 6" away from it,the difference is huge.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/60.jpg
These need finishing off,we arent going to polish them like folk used to do in our mini days,thats been proven to be worse for power,current thinking is to leave a roughish finish that helps atomize the fuel better as it gets disrupted on the head walls....i dunno you decide!
Theres another day of porting to go through before engine final assembly.
superchargedsam
04-10-2007, 19:11
Its 1mm ally but with a bluey tinge to it,possibly anodised in some way? is that even possible?
You aint left the protective plastic sheeting which is a see through blue that it sometimes comes with have ya paul? Only messing!
Paul Woods
04-10-2007, 19:15
he he... i may be irish sam but not that thick! great to see you back on TB fella!
superchargedsam
04-10-2007, 19:17
lol only messing with ya Paul, is the kind of thing I would do though and not nitice till I smelt it burning off lol! Only though of it as removed some from the cooker the other day.......that was installed nearly 4 years ago lol!
Paul Woods
04-10-2007, 19:18
you may joke,the number of cars i see with new number plates that still have the placker on lol
superchargedsam
04-10-2007, 19:20
gotta say paul am loving the MK3, bet ya cant wit to have a drive see how this handles with the extrea power! Are the brakes upto it on the MK3 or are there cheap toyota upgrades/swaps for that to?
Paul Woods
04-10-2007, 19:22
well i havent dived into mk3 brakes yet but i think the front caliper spacing is identical to a mk1.....which of course means st165-st205 upgrades will be possible :thumbsup:
superchargedsam
04-10-2007, 19:25
Even better then, result all round!
loadswine
04-10-2007, 20:19
Nice heat shield! Nice touch that one Paul. Funnily enough Carol and I do take the odd bottle of wine out on our day trips in the 2 and you're completely right, can't have me drink getting warm! lol
Porting, the dark art,:wierd2: I have no idea when I read the guide that toysrme wrote, mentioning "short side radius, bowl and unshroud valves":hmm:
I know what a lot of material means though and I can see the difference:hehe: That gas has to be flowing well through those ports!
I guess you've seen the ones done already as well, so you have to have some kind of picture of what's got to go. Brutal stuff indeed. Excellent!!
Finish wise, I don't know, but I'm sure I've read in a few places that making it shiny and uber polished doesn't get any more horses.
I'm impressed and I have a lot of gas flow! lol :fart2:
As far as brakes go, general wisdom in roadster circles is that the stock discs do a brilliant job. Some have gone for Black Diamond discs and pads, others Carbotech. I have BD pads and the grooved discs were on the car when I got it and do a super job when it comes to stopping. Stainless lines are good too, got those and a system full of RBF600. So come on horses released from the porting! Do your worst!!! I can take it!
loadswine
04-10-2007, 22:23
I've tried reading up on porting in all sorts of places, so my brain hurts!
I'm not much more informed than I was before, though smoothing flow makes sense to me and matching the shape of the gaskets seems to make sense also.
Does the manifold need matching to the gaskets in a similar way at all?
All that gas velocity and stuff is interesting, but beyond me, specially having had a drop of grape juice....hic lol
I don't know, just asking, using what little logic i have, not much. lol
This is a very interesting area and I wish i knew more, but guess I'll have to be aware of what Clint Eastwood said in Dirty Harry " A man should know his limitations!" :doh:
superchargedsam
05-10-2007, 01:43
when matching porting to the manifolds for inlet small step helps as this along with a rougher surface can aid fuel atomisation on its way into the chamber! only a small step mind not a doorstep lol
Paul Woods
05-10-2007, 06:32
we now have a step going the other way,so no restriction from the plenum to head port,i really dont know if thats a good thing or bad thing..... and a slightly rough surface seems to be the ideal way to leave the port walls.
snowtigger
05-10-2007, 19:05
dont polish them for god sakes david vizards book on mini tuning talks at length on blending the inlet manifold to head so that u get a clearer flow of particles if u leave it a bit rough then u get swirl as it enters the combustion chambers ie better mix blending the exhaust apparently helps too to expel the gasees polishing the valves though aparently is all right because u do not whant to restrict the flow to much around the valve .i have seen a lot of people hacking away then spending hours polishing the head to death then they wonder why it does not perfom beter ive also seen when they get a measure off oil in a bowl and pour it down the inlet with both valve closed fill right up to the top of the inlet gasket measure how much then repeat the procedure for all so u get the same volumetric port in all the inlets .
dont polish them for god sakes david vizards book on mini tuning talks at length on blending the inlet manifold to head so that u get a clearer flow of particles if u leave it a bit rough then u get swirl as it enters the combustion chambers ie better mix blending the exhaust apparently helps too to expel the gasees polishing the valves though aparently is all right because u do not whant to restrict the flow to much around the valve .i have seen a lot of people hacking away then spending hours polishing the head to death then they wonder why it does not perfom beter ive also seen when they get a measure off oil in a bowl and pour it down the inlet with both valve closed fill right up to the top of the inlet gasket measure how much then repeat the procedure for all so u get the same volumetric port in all the inlets .
I suppose, if you used olive oil, once the engine was up and running, it would sound better, being Italian and all.....:idea:
:woods: I'll get me coat....:cadet:
dont polish them for god sakes david vizards book on mini tuning talks at length on blending the inlet manifold to head so that u get a clearer flow of particles if u leave it a bit rough then u get swirl as it enters the combustion chambers ie better mix blending the exhaust apparently helps too to expel the gasees polishing the valves though aparently is all right because u do not whant to restrict the flow to much around the valve .i have seen a lot of people hacking away then spending hours polishing the head to death then they wonder why it does not perfom beter ive also seen when they get a measure off oil in a bowl and pour it down the inlet with both valve closed fill right up to the top of the inlet gasket measure how much then repeat the procedure for all so u get the same volumetric port in all the inlets .
Interesting. Ive been schooled
snowtigger
05-10-2007, 20:20
sorry if ive been waffling its all to do with the size of droplets of fuel in the atomization if its a bit rough it swirls the droplet in to a vortecce so that they dont recombine if its smooth the droplets have no abrasion so reform in to bigger drops ergo it un does the atomisation of the fuel thats being injected so no big bang. more air plus better atomisation plus bigger throats equals a bigger bang that is the principle of forced induction . have seen a 7 litre corvette sledghammer it was called and it had supercharger and twin turbos looked like a plumbers nightmare but it worked super charger for low speed torque and turbo for high speed i think they ran it at bonneville 200 plus mph in the eightes.as my father constantley tells me i have a mind of useless info ill shut up know some one fetch me coat.:hidesbehi
igger throats equals a bigger bang that is the principle of forced induction . have seen a 7 litre corvette sledghammer it was called and it had supercharger and twin turbos looked like a plumbers nightmare but it worked super charger for low speed torque and turbo for high speed i think they ran it at bonneville 200 plus mph in the eightes.
Look up "Lingenfelter" - they have a road standard Corvette doing 1/4 mile in 7.8 seconds with standard road tyres.
loadswine
05-10-2007, 20:47
So a bit of a rough surface is the way to go!:thumbsup:
Would the exhaust ports be smooth then?
snowtigger
05-10-2007, 21:30
yep smooth equals no turbulence because u whant the spent gases to vacate the chamber faster so does not matter also the carbon deposits can not attach them selves to it thats why porsche has ceramic turbos and ceramic internasll to the exhaust to speed up the flow . ooow me head hurts too much knowledge overheat reset reset rissitance is a measure of futillity bang thats better redo redo redo more alcohol needed.
millentubby
05-10-2007, 22:40
Having the walls rough or smooth will promote either laminar or turbulent flow of the fluid through the conduit - think of a golf ball...the dimples make it travel faster...but sometimes laminar flow produces more friction between the fluid and the pipe than turbulent flow...or it could produce a 'buffer' of dead air at the walls of the pipe with a faster-flowing inner current resulting in faster piston entry velocities...or it might not.
It's a very very complimacated art.
Going from a reduction 'step' to an expansion 'step' is not necessarily a good thing either - can promote strange flow patterns and whatnot - will let you know this time next year when I've studied it all in more depth!
I have a rather useful book on Fluid Dynamics kicking about - can find it and try to form a conclusive argument to solve any specific questions if need be?
loadswine
05-10-2007, 23:46
I don't really have any other specific questions, as I'm not clever enough to think of any! D'oh!
The way I see it Paul has seen all those heads that have come back from the specialists, so he's in a pretty good position to replicate that work more or less. My heads should be along the lines of what's been done before, that has to be a good thing, and its probably not important that I understand complex gas flow theory.:thumbsup:
( I have tried to understand and not be too thick.)
snowtigger
06-10-2007, 00:10
have read books on fluidynamic theory and particlute theory like he says there is no hard or fast rule to head flowing an yes it can create weird anomolous readings thats y the major japanes bike manufactures spend millions on flow testing .and im not knocking pauls work loooks good and if he has a referance head to compare it with or photos or has hard long disccusions with head guys then u should get the benefit im going to let him do mine when ive got them so im not worried consistance and quality is the key . a samuri was ridding his horse through town and every one was bowing to him to acknowlege his superioty over them and he came to an old man practiceing the tea ceromony he did not bow to the samuri puzzled the samuri got of his horse and said to the old man y did u not bow .the old man said y should i bow too u who says your skill is greater than mine the samuri said a but i have killed many men .yes said the old man but can u pour tea through a ryu (old japanese coinage has a small square hole in the middle)which he dually demonstrated baffled by this explanation the samuri got back on his horse and rode off. 12 months later he came back and whent down on his knees and bowed down to the old man.the morale is what?.
have read books on fluidynamic theory and particlute theory like he says there is no hard or fast rule to head flowing an yes it can create weird anomolous readings thats y the major japanes bike manufactures spend millions on flow testing .and im not knocking pauls work loooks good and if he has a referance head to compare it with or photos or has hard long disccusions with head guys then u should get the benefit im going to let him do mine when ive got them so im not worried consistance and quality is the key . a samuri was ridding his horse through town and every one was bowing to him to acknowlege his superioty over them and he came to an old man practiceing the tea ceromony he did not bow to the samuri puzzled the samuri got of his horse and said to the old man y did u not bow .the old man said y should i bow too u who says your skill is greater than mine the samuri said a but i have killed many men .yes said the old man but can u pour tea through a ryu (old japanese coinage has a small square hole in the middle)which he dually demonstrated baffled by this explanation the samuri got back on his horse and rode off. 12 months later he came back and whent down on his knees and bowed down to the old man.the morale is what?.
Use teabags?? Was that not out a film or something....
If you cannae make the tea, you're not getting near a sword?
loadswine
06-10-2007, 10:20
rotflmao
pauls work loooks good and if he has a referance head to compare it with or photos or has hard head with guys im going to let him do mine so im not worried quality is the key .
LOL,Sorry had to be done.
snowtigger
07-10-2007, 00:50
yep it would not be brutal if u didnt whoozy
Paul Woods
08-10-2007, 19:27
well following the finished head porting (we opened these fellas out as far as we dare!) it was time to nail it all together,here is as far as i got.....heads back on and timing belt fitted...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/92.jpg
And cam covers and top cover painted....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/93.jpg
The more observant among you will see thats two front covers!!! yes we are fitting another front cover to the rear so that nigel can fill the engine with oil,the front cover is wedged under the parcel shelf.Its a simple solution to the problem and will need nothing more than a spouted funnel to do oil changes
More engine building tomorrow
Paul Woods
08-10-2007, 19:28
ps forgot to say if we simply swapped covers the top panel wouldnt work....so thats why we have two front covers and not simply swapped them.....if we were leaving the top panel off then it wouldnt be an issue
snowtigger
08-10-2007, 19:59
ooo liking this alot nice and shiny like a crissy pressie u lucky git loadswine .sings one day my time will come i will be top off the heap king of the hill bugger realitys set in a well we can dream.
loadswine
08-10-2007, 20:47
I'm loving this, it looks fantastic and its not even put together fully yet!
Those heads look a complete work of art Paul, thanks for all the attention you've lavished on them, my right foot thanks you.:thumbsup:
Cool solution for oil filling, simple works for me, that way I can understand it!lol
Snowtigger, it is a bit like some super pressie, yes I do feel priveliged.:cool:
I know how you feel, as I watched lloads of swaps going on and thought " wow I wish it was me!" now it is, its kinda hard to take it all in. Its well cool sharing the swap with the guys on here.
I wish I was as talented as Woodsy!
Great stuff as always paul,will be a tidy motor when done.
snowtigger
08-10-2007, 23:41
i have talent my dad says im the best person 2 test any thing if it aint broke our mike will break it is his favourite saying. i am the dismantleing god as my garage testfied 3 motor bikes 2 car engines one car in bits good at that just crap at puting it back together i look at people building cars and bikes engines and things and i think wow then i try.i blow them up nock them down thats why im going to give it paul stand back and go u build it i will test it like no body else will believe me. its not that i dont have mechanical sympathy or i do not know how to look after things they just break if i can not break it no one will.
Paul so is it possible the swap the covers over - that is the standard ones? it'd make oil filling a lot easier
Paul Woods
09-10-2007, 07:11
not in a mk2 it wouldnt hasad,the covers do swap,the front cover needs its vent pipe cutting down a little but apart from that they are a straight swap,but your top cover wont fit anymore.
In a mk2 the oil cap would be even harder to get at on the rear bank,its buried behind the rear firewall.....nigel doesnt have a rear firewall so getting access to his rear bank is easy.
nigel doesnt have a rear firewall so getting access to his rear bank is easy.
:hand: lol
Paul Woods
09-10-2007, 10:56
on his car u filthy little urchin
loadswine
09-10-2007, 12:47
rotflmao
I completely forgot about the intake covering it up
We need some custom intake plenums.
loadswine
09-10-2007, 13:15
That would be nice!
Paul Woods
09-10-2007, 18:13
working on it chaps
Paul Woods
09-10-2007, 18:36
today i have been detailing engine parts,it takes ages to get everything clean and painted but its worth the effort.....starting with fitting the centre plenum section and fuel rails....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/100.jpg
Here you can see the front cam cover fitted to the rear and the new oil cap position.....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/101.jpg
Also there is usually a thick plastic harness section that runs along the rear cover,it would have gone right over the oil cap,not good,so i redid the harness so it goes above the oil cap....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/102.jpg
A little forward thinking for cambelt changes,the cover was going to be next to impossible to remove in situ,so ive cut it in half so that each side has four bolts holding each half cover on....both sections will now remove when the engines fitted....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/103.jpg
Here is the coolant filler body painted,even gave it some chrome dome head nuts holding it down...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/104.jpg
And heres the plenum painted.....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/105.jpg
And a brief overview of how the engine looks now....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/106.jpg
Heres a few bits i painted but didnt have time to fit today....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/107.jpg
So pretty good progress but still a way to go...
BLING..!!!
tasty as always (not you :puke:, the motor)
Paul Woods
09-10-2007, 18:42
you know you want it baby (me that is,not the motor)
snowtigger
09-10-2007, 19:44
oooo shiny engine peieces nice does every engine u biuld get this amount of attention if so nice install .better start saving me pennys.
superchargedsam
09-10-2007, 20:03
Awesome looking motor!
loadswine
09-10-2007, 20:58
:praise2: :boogie: :boogie: :jump: :jump: WOW!!
How good is that?
Its staggerringly good, I'm not worried about driving it, I think I'll just stand there and admire it!
Definitely owe you a beer or ten for that Paul.:beer:
My kids have just had a look and they have declared it officially cool, and teenagers don't impress easily.:shades:
Carol will be in in about an hour, so she'll be over the moon just as I am.
That touch with the cam belt cover is another ace. It all just works so well and will look so right in the car.
Thanks a squillion Paul!;)
jimgreen
09-10-2007, 21:07
What silver paint is that ?
splintermcinnes
10-10-2007, 03:31
does every engine u biuld get this amount of attention if so nice install .better start saving me pennys.
Basically, Yes!! take it from me, i have had a V6 transplant (number 15!!!) done by paul and it went way above and beyond my expectation, i wouldnt have changed me decision for the world! simply awsome workmanship, i dont think there is another garage in the land that does what he does with such attention to detail, i bow down to the oh great one!!!!:thumbsup:
matt
Paul Woods
10-10-2007, 07:21
cheers matt,fivers in the post lol
jim the cam covers are basecoat silver and laquered,its ford moondust silver.... the other engine parts are a deep metallic aerosol silver from B&Q
Paul Woods
10-10-2007, 19:24
well a very busy day,i started by tackling the dipstick issue,there was no way for nigel to check his oil with the stick in its stock location so i made a new dipstick assembly from scratch.
I cut the bottom off the old tube and inserted some new thinner tube inside this and welded it....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/117.jpg
Then bent the new tube to shape and welded the top section from the old tube onto it....the top and bottom parts mean it retains its oil sealing properties.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/118.jpg
Then i used nigels 1zz dipstick and uncrimped it from its handle,cut it to the perfect length and recrimped it.....we double checked this and its going to measure the oil exactly the same as the old stick,finally the new assmebly got painted.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/119.jpg
Next i cleaned down the mk2 gearbox and painted it....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/120.jpg
Then fitted the 5s-fe fidanza flywheel,and ACT 5s-fe clutch kit.... for people new to v6 swaps the 5s-fe flywheel needed modifying to fit the v6 crank.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/121.jpg
Then gearbox and engine were bolted together....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/122.jpg
Next the whole lot was pushed under the car ready for install....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/123.jpg
And a few moments later it was in the bay....
It was now i hit a small snag...we had a damn good look around the engine and we think the bracings are too much of a comfort fit around the plenum.....basically i screwed up! it clears it ok but i havent allowed for engine flex under acceleration,schoolboy error!
So i chopped the braces back out with the plasma cutter and positioned them 1" further back,we now have plenty of clearance,i will know for next time!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/124.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/125.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/126.jpg
but hey,how good does that look?
Tomorrow i need to briefly drop the engine out on the floor to reweld the braces and repaint where ive welded.
Jiff Lemon
10-10-2007, 19:45
Just a thought Paul, but could you cut an access panel into the middle bulkhead to improve plug access?
Stunning... only word for the conversion
Ejit... only word for the converter
loadswine
10-10-2007, 20:19
This stuff should be in an art gallery! Cracking, love the way problems just become solutions.:thumbsup:
Dipstick, rock on, so neat . Flywheel looks the biz, thanks to Tony for the engineering work on that as well. The clutch just looks plain scary to me, I hope I can drive it smoothly:fingersx:
Gearbox on , its all starting to come together.
Shame about having to reposition the bars, but best done now I guess.
Engine bay, ooh, nice!!:)
Damn. There`s that shiny gearbox again. Sooo shiny. I`m starting a new fetish over this i think:)
Looking great boss:)
loadswine
10-10-2007, 20:47
Just a thought Paul, but could you cut an access panel into the middle bulkhead to improve plug access?
Jiff, Paul is going to give all mk3 owners a suitable plug removal tool to get the plugs out from the rear bank, so it saves on the cutting. It leaves my nice shiny heatshield untouched too.:thumbsup:
Looking damn good! Here's a thought...Will the bonnet catch still work with the bracing being moved?
loadswine
10-10-2007, 23:40
That was a thought I had as well, so I sent Paul a pm, bet he's six steps ahead already! lol
Marksman
10-10-2007, 23:49
I'm not usually one to jump up and down in and scream like a girl but on this occasion :jump: that looks bloody marvellous. One of the best things to come out of Woodsport out of an already illustrious chain. Well done lads, I want one. And a body kit for it, and a...
Owen.
Whore of Babylon
11-10-2007, 00:14
That’s it, im grabbing the shotgun and the wedding dress, im going to force Paul to marry me. But seriously, this is the most impressive car ive seen modified EVER, please come to Australia and do the same to mine. Looks like your nearly finished, so close to having engine in, whats left?
Paul Woods
11-10-2007, 06:59
jesus wob im already taken mate! but if you can cook better than becky im interested lol
yeah the catch needed moving on the lid anyway so we are just moving it more,i have a plan to use a mk1 boot lid catch......see owen i managed to get a mk1 part on there somehow :thumbsup:
Paul Woods
11-10-2007, 19:33
another eventful day at WS HQ,i started by welding the support bars back into their correct position,and with them repainted the engine could finally go back in,i added the plenum and throttle body and plumbed most of that up...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/144.jpg
next the coilpack/amp was mounted on the passenger strut....fits like a glove too,you'd swear it was meant for it.... its important to earth the body of this unit or sparky no worky...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/145.jpg
Next the clutch line was sorted,mk2 line mates straight to mk3 hard pipe,its the perfect length as well....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/146.jpg
Also the front torque mount was prothane bushed and fitted...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/147.jpg
Now i started to remove the ABS rings from the mk3 shafts and place them onto the mk2 CV joints,all went well until i inserted the CV's back into the hubs and i could clearly see the ABS ring was engaging fully into the hub! upon close inspection the mk2 outer CV spline is around 10mm shorter than the mk3 spline,so this would lead to two things happening.....
1, the ABS wont work
2, the wheel bearings would collapse within 5 miles,not good!
So back to the drawing board on the shafts.... and with a bit of playing about we discovered mk3 shafts fit into the mk2 diff,thats a stroke of luck! dont u just love toyota.....so in one hit the ABS problem and shaft problem is sorted...plus with the added bonus this v6 will have a supported output shaft set up,although that will mean i will have to make a custom mount carrier....coolio.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/148.jpg
mk2 cv,lack of splines is a problem!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/149.jpg
mk3 supported shaft bracket
Heres the bay as it looks now.....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/150.jpg
Mistertwokw
11-10-2007, 20:19
i think i just did a little sex wee!!, that is awesome work paul..
snowtigger
11-10-2007, 20:23
as the americans say in the porn industry ive got wood. spurt arr thats better
as the americans say in the porn industry ive got wood. spurt arr thats better
His name gets in everywhere
Originally Posted by snowtigger
as the americans say in the porn industry ive got WOOD. SPURT arr thats better
His name gets in everywhere
rotflmao genius!!!
loadswine
11-10-2007, 21:35
Car pron indeed, this build has plenty of money shots! lol
I think the Toyota swappability just keeps on getting better all the time, clutch plug and play, mk3 driveshafts fitting a mk2 diff.... Legend.
Black accent part on the inlet looks really nice.
Pleased as anything with this, its Ace.:cool: :cool:
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