View Full Version : Mk1V6 inline Twin Turbo
Right, av got it planted in my head now so it's going nowhere till i see it in the metal, be it in a year or 3 years it will happen.
Inline is the only way and perfect way that we can get enough room for 2 turbo's so am gonna have to steal Podge's ideas for his V8.
What am hoping is that the V6 will go in without choping the front firewall, not fussed about moving the rear wall. Paul, what's the overall length of a V6? Seem to remember you measuring it a while ago.
1) Do we have a transaxle box which will bolt up to the V6, Audi 80 maybe?
I really think it's a go-er after looking at Podge's V8 madness build thread.
2) What would be the best Turbos to use, hanging one each off the exhaust banks?
3) Will it then need a custom inlet plenum, one for each bank or would it be better feeding the exhaust gasses back into one large plenum?
I'm thinking 2 low pressure turbos to start with, 350ish bhp, then later a rebuilt forged monster.
4) How would an ECU re-act to having two sets of turbos to control? Would i need a custom ECU for that?
Need to learn how to weld but this could be just what i need as a long term project to REALLY cut my teeth on.
Whaddya fink? :freak3:
Whaddya fink? :freak3:
Its what i was thinking of doing when i finally got around to do or get a swap done:thumbsup:
Maybe it could be just me but having 3 pistons going up and down next to my back and head wouldnt let me drive at ease lol
Who knows, It might be easyer then the normal swap :)(i said might)
Yeah, was thinking of this method ever since I saw Podges (or is it Lodge?) V8 swap. Would be a major undertaking certainly, and dunno if I'd rather attempt the V8 (Ooo the noise...) if I was going this far...(some of the hurdles of the V8 swap, but you might avoid having to rebuild the firewall...)
Would also be better from a weight distribution point of view as you'd be moving the heaviest part more to the middle of the car. I would imagine you'd really be looking for 500ish hp with this (may as well :thumbsup: ), so any (manual) Audi transaxles may struggle, therefore sending you into expensive G50 territory (I figured you would need something this strong for that sort of power / torque).
So its only really worth it if you are going for BIG power. Would be mental though mate, go for it (but get the current V6 into "fully operational battle station" mode first) :driving:
Is the G50 the one used in Porsches?
If it is then wouldnt you have a lot of reverse gears and only 1 foward? lol
That's a point about the manual box. Is there any transverse auto boxes? Would be worth looking at.
The current project will be done 1st, definitely but am thinking about this for me t-bar.
Would the V6 sit upright ok or does it need to be tilted as in the current setup?
Jiff Lemon
25-07-2007, 10:27
Something like this would be ok Ollie:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Renault-Manual-5-speed-Gearbox-R25-Traffic-Espace-Kit_W0QQitemZ280134491287QQihZ018QQcategoryZ10410Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
The Renault 21/25/30/espace's had north/south engines.
Something like this would be ok Ollie:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Renault-Manual-5-speed-Gearbox-R25-Traffic-Espace-Kit_W0QQitemZ280134491287QQihZ018QQcategoryZ10410Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
The Renault 21/25/30/espace's had north/south engines.
How much power do you think it would be able to take?
It would pop on take off would it?
Can't open in work, is that an auto box Jiffmeister?
Jiff Lemon
25-07-2007, 10:42
nah, manual
But you could get them in auto
Can't open in work, is that an auto box Jiffmeister?
Item Specifics - Car Parts & Accessories
Type: Transmission & Drivetrain Intended Use: Replacement Part
Subtype: Manual Transmissions & Parts Condition: Used
Manufacturer: Renault
Model/ Series: Espace, R25
This is an excellent 5-speed manual gearbox taken from a mid-80s Renault 25, but I am reliably informed that it is also the correct gearbox for certain Espace models and possibly Traffic.
It bears an aluminium tag with the following numbers: NG3072, c000788.
Main casting number: 7700596990 / Tail housing 7700598829
Diff 9/32 = 3.55
I know it to be a good box, as I drove the donor car before the box was removed, and it worked perfectly and made no nasty noises!
This box was purchased for a mid-engined kit car project - so is ideal for that purpose.
Due to the weight, this item is for collection only.I live close to the M5 Junction 22.
Theres all the info on the Auction Olber:thumbsup:
BTW why are u after an Auto?
Yeah heard of the Renault boxes before, heard of them matted to old V6s (fords I believe), so unsure of there power handling capacity...
Auto box with either semi-auto or paddles would be ok, but heavier than a manual.... I would think back to Audi for an auto as they have plenty, infact I think pretty much all the V8 versions come as auto, but probably also Quattro as standard, which can cause problems if its not just a purely mechanical output ie. they don't like operating without some form of rear drive... Auto's are 'generally' known for being capable of handing high loadings due to lack of clutch.
The G50 (various different varients) is used for Ultimas (maybe try their website also for an idea of cost) who run similar set-up. The reason it works is that the box is used upside down (IIRC), so it will still have 5/6 forward speeds and a reverse. Might want to confirm this before investing though...:thumbsup:
Just thought it may be stronger from previous post and also would negate the problem of gear cables.
Might avoid gear cables, but then it could well be a nightmare to wire up and get working properly.... These things tend to operate closely with modern engines / ECU's, you would have to make it think it was, similar in a way I suppose to how the 3VZ-FE ECU is tricked into thinking its still got an auto box attached....
Dunno, maybe similar than that, hopefully someone more informed can answer - custom gearbox ECU, no thanks....!
In fact, just had a thought, just get hold of an old S4 (2.7 bi-turbo) engine and gearbox, ready made package, 'just' delete the Quattro, and alot of potential...
What about a 924 box?
Porsche Auto Box (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Porsche-924-Auto-Gearbox-Transaxle_W0QQitemZ320046500428QQihZ011QQcategoryZ 31356QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem)
Not sure on that. Were these not rear mounted with a prop shaft going in? Better for weight distribution for a front engined car. Should work in theory, again, strenghth? 928 box should be good and should handle plenty power lol
Paul Woods
25-07-2007, 18:24
what a cracking idea olie! i will take some measurements for you tomorrow unless someone beats me to it.... i think it will sit straight as opposed to tilted provided you sort the sump and oil pickup :thumbsup:
Howsabout this for the bodywork?
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/07/248.jpg
Edited with Azev's
Damn nice, however, not sure about "V6 Twin Turd" ;)
You could probably remove the side vent and make it Symmetrical wit a kit like that :thumbsup:
Aye i'll remove the vent and attempt to straighten up the wheel tonight.
Hate the rear wheels on photochops, they NEVER look quite right.
Maybe put wider rear Aches on aswell and fit some wider wheels ??
Edit: Will that mess with the handling? Adam you should know?
Edit2: With that vent wouldnt the whole arse of the the MK1 be wider then standed so it doesnt stick out? You might need to make a clam if it does
Yes, whole arse wider :thumbsup:
Well i had a wee look on Saturday, front to rear on narrowest point is 700mm.
Length of the top of the V6........660mm. :jump:
Now obviously we're going to have to make room down below for the gearbox that's gonna stick out but i dunno just how much. Might be able to weld in an arch and tunnel to the boot to let it fit.
Will go in perfectly though and leave just enough room for a mount on the front and rear firewall. If we're lucky i'll be able to get a mount off the front cross member onto the bottom of the engine, 2 off the back at the gearbox end, but what to do left to right?
Another cross member across the middle underneath?
Marksman
30-07-2007, 23:09
We don't have cross members here, just happy ones.
Owen.
lol
http://www.gosimpsons.com/ProdImages/BurnsExcellentSticker.jpg
Paul Woods
31-07-2007, 06:42
mmm tricky on the side engine mounts,the right mount is a doddle,you can use the supported shaft mount holes to make an engine mount from,but theres no such holes on the other side and the oil filter assembly is bang in the way.....the only place you can mount it from is the old aircon mounting bracket holes that are near the front....it "should" still be ok to do that.
Was thinking about it today again, borrrrred out ma tits in work. Saying i go with the Auto option as am leaning towards :
I take it the auto gear stick arrangement from the auto charger would fit into any mk1 centre tunnel bit? Or the Camry selector?
Would i still need this Auto lever if i had paddles behind the steering wheel? Allow me to select park and reverse and wotnot?
What gearbox ECU would it make more sense to use, a Toyota one or the (probably) Audi one to match the box? Anyone got some info on how the Auto boxes work, select the gears etc?
Cheers,
weegaz22
07-09-2007, 14:28
on a sidenote about the renualt 25 boxes, they were used in the lotus esprit so should handle a decent amount of power, but the box is also described as the worst part of the car....go figure lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhdDP8GfiHo
Anyone had any more thought about this?
It could end up being easyer in the long run
on a sidenote about the renualt 25 boxes, they were used in the lotus esprit so should handle a decent amount of power, but the box is also described as the worst part of the car....go figure lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhdDP8GfiHo
Lotus used the UN1 gearbox from the V6 Espace/Renault 25 etc it was also the box used in the Renault 5 Turbo 1 and 2 with a few mods. It will handle about 400bhp iirc. The NG3 in the normal espace and other inline fwd renaults is not as good and can fail on diff bearings and input shafts etc. The auto box from the V6 Espace is also a good option however they are a bitch to work on and we were never allowed to strip them, they were just sent back and exchanged for warranty.
I'm sure there are a few Espace V6's out there cheap as they drink fuel like it's going out of fashion.
I have (i think) still got the manuals for the UN1 and other gearboxes squirrelled away in my kit. I will look and see if I still have it and try and scan/ post up etc.
BSM
didnt the esprit v8 have trouble blowing up first gear
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