3VZ-FE ECU maps [Archive] - Woodsport Forum & The TB Archive

JMR_AW11

21-05-2007, 23:14

I recently dumped out the ROM from the V6 ECU and here are the fuel and ignition maps in this ECU.

There are two sets of maps. One is a safe map that gets selected after an ECU reset. Your ECU has to self learn its way onto the main map.

As you can see there is no scaling yet. Idon't know how to calculate rpm for this ECU. I need to know how many teeth are on the dizzy wheels before i can do this.

So the engine speed is NOT in rpm, just map site number.

You can see the ignition timing and fuel mapping is very smooth and the fuel correction map (I think this map is a correction for the main AFM vs RPM fuelling based on cylinder filling) is quite small and crude.

You can see how it overfuels on the higher load curves. Each curve is for higher cylinder filling (engine load)

I could quite easily improve on this on a modded ECU and give it much larger maps with finer resolution.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/JMR_AW11/Efis.gif

[IMG]http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/JMR_AW11/Efi.gif

[IMG]http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/JMR_AW11/Igns.gif

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/05/1.gif

Also there is a rather odd looking rpm map. I've not worked out what this one is for yet but it looks a bit strange...

Again, it has one map for ECU reset and one for when the initial self learning has ended.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/05/2.gif
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/05/3.gif

OlberJ

21-05-2007, 23:27

So for the innept among us, this means there's potential for a piggyback ECU which will release a few more ponies into the mix?

roseward

21-05-2007, 23:46

That looks extremely promising !

Paul Woods

22-05-2007, 07:37

yep indeed,jeremy is working on developing a programmable version of the stock camry ecu,essentially when its done we will be able to alter both ignition and fuelling maps along with a host of other stuff like idle speed control settings,acis cut in point etc etc...it will be a major step forward in v6 tuning as currently there are no plug n play aftermarket ecus for the v6,the closest thing we have is the haltech but that too needs hardwiring into the loom....this will be plug and play!

So we might as well use this thread to gauge interest,ive spoken to jeremy at length about initial funding costs,heres how it will work,jeremy needs to buy about £250 worth of boards/chips etc etc (stuff i dont understand basically!) to get this off the ground,he then needs to spend around 3-6 months getting it all sorted.

What we will end up with is an exchange ecu service,you send jeremy your stock v6 ecu,plus a cheque for around £300-£400 (price still to be decided depending on how long it takes him and parts needed) and he returns you a fully mapable v6 ecu that plugs straight into your harness.

You will also get a link cable and software so that you can alter your fuel and ignition maps on a laptop....great eh!!

So im very excited about this,the pricing sounds spot on too and should release quite a lot of power.

So who would be provisionally up for this? If a few of us v6er's throw a few quid into the pot we will be able to get jeremy off and running,obviously he doesnt want to invest a lot of time and money into this if none of us are interested! so its in our own interests to help him fund it.

Anyone that does contribute will obviously be paying towards the ecu they receive in the end.

So who is game? ideally we need 5 x £50 contributions to get him the funding for parts etc (your ecu will be £50 cheaper in the long run),im certainly up for it...if we get 10 people interested obviously thats £25 each....

Copy and paste your name below if you fancy this!

1.Paul woods

Jiff Lemon

22-05-2007, 08:21

The man can have 50 of my hard earned ones :thumbsup:

1.Paul woods
2.Jiff Lemon

JMR_AW11

22-05-2007, 09:06

Id be up for this but im thinking that maybe a slant on the idea might be worthwhile.

I mentioned some time ago to you Paul about using the 7mgte ecu because its got a boost sensor and proper mapping for a turbo, im just wondering if this would be a better bet as a starting point?
I know its got some differences such as using 3 ignition coils (wasted spark system) airflow sensor isnt the flapper type which is good for power etc....

Just a thought maybe??

Oh btw, number of teeth on the dizzy is 24 equally spaced. :)

Thanks. So there are 24 teeth on the dizzy. is there just one dizzy on one bank of cylinders. I don't know anything about the engine itself yet...

Is 7MGTE a Supra ECU? I have one of those but it's an older type ECU, maybe 1990.

Don't forget I can change the code in the 3VZ-FE so I could (in the future) do a version of code for a map sensor instead of AFM.

The best thing at the moment is to let me try my existing ROM board in Paul's ECU he sent me.

i have to change the programmable logic on the board (i.e. reprogram it) to swap it over to support the V6 ECU and then load in the factory ROM, and then plug it into the ECU with an adaptor to lift it up to stop it fouling the ECU.

I also need to wire up to the ECU to test it and this will not be easy without the loom plugs. So it will be a while before I get to try all this.

biteme

22-05-2007, 09:24

Great news this. A major step forward.

I'll be up for giving my ECU over so you can see if there's any differences between revisions?

I'm going full standalone soon - as soon as it's built! So whatever I can donate to help, I'll be glad to.

biteme

22-05-2007, 09:25

The man can take an hours pay off me, heh!

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G

Jiff Lemon

22-05-2007, 09:26

Thanks. So there are 24 teeth on the dizzy. is there just one dizzy on one bank of cylinders. I don't know anything about the engine itself yet...

Yup, just a single Dizzy

OlberJ

22-05-2007, 09:37

Only problem with that is, we don't have 7mgte ECU's to swap and be reworked.

Would they be easy to come by?

Id be up for this but im thinking that maybe a slant on the idea might be worthwhile.

I mentioned some time ago to you Paul about using the 7mgte ecu because its got a boost sensor and proper mapping for a turbo, im just wondering if this would be a better bet as a starting point?
I know its got some differences such as using 3 ignition coils (wasted spark system) airflow sensor isnt the flapper type which is good for power etc....

Just a thought maybe??

Oh btw, number of teeth on the dizzy is 24 equally spaced. :)

OohMatron

22-05-2007, 09:43

Aye, add me in too, a small contribution to something that will allow us to get the absolute most from this engine :thumbsup:

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G
4. OohMatron

roseward

22-05-2007, 13:38

Me too !

Glenn

roseward

22-05-2007, 13:38

Aye, add me in too, a small contribution to something that will allow us to get the absolute most from this engine :thumbsup:

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G
4. OohMatron
5. Roseward

GaryA

22-05-2007, 18:11

Yep if it can be made to work with mild boost i'm in :thumbsup:

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G
4. OohMatron
5. Roseward
6. Wombat

splintermcinnes

22-05-2007, 18:44

Yes please! sounds an awsome idea. great work in helping to push the envelope on the ever evolving MR2 family. Top bloke:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G
4. OohMatron
5. Roseward
6. Wombat
7. Matt (splintermcinnes)

Paul Woods

22-05-2007, 19:08

excellent support chaps! this will let jeremy get things off and running,i have 100% confidence in his ability to pull this off.It will mean we all end up with programmable v6 ecu's which will be a godsend to us and should release valuable horses.

3 more names and its only £25 each to get the initial funding sorted :thumbsup:

OlberJ

22-05-2007, 19:36

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G
4. OohMatron
5. Roseward
6. Wombat
7. Matt (splintermcinnes)
8. OlberJ

Even if i can't afford the full thing, it's only £25 in the name of science. :mrgreen:

lodgeman

22-05-2007, 19:45

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G
4. OohMatron
5. Roseward
6. Wombat
7. Matt (splintermcinnes)
8. OlberJ
9. lodgeman

same goes for me !! all for the cause of research:thumbsup:

biteme

22-05-2007, 22:48

Where do we send the money then? :P

petec

22-05-2007, 23:20

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G
4. OohMatron
5. Roseward
6. Wombat
7. Matt (splintermcinnes)
8. OlberJ
9. lodgeman
10. PeteC

Its a full house! I expect a high tech progress report though of course.

splintermcinnes

23-05-2007, 02:01

indeed, we have the support, but nowhere to send it!!:fit:

Details please!

anymore support? surly there's more of us! this is gona be an ace product, bring it on! Damn it my list of bits to gets just seems to keep getting bigger!!:doh:

Matt

Paul Woods

23-05-2007, 06:01

biteme

23-05-2007, 07:43

It'll probably sound like beaker on the muppets lol

So just to clarify that when Jeremy posts his details, it's £25 per person yea?

I'd love to see this be able to handle MAP based running ... BOOST BABY!

steviek

23-05-2007, 07:48

put me down carnt cut and paste lol

biteme

23-05-2007, 08:39

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G
4. OohMatron
5. Roseward
6. Wombat
7. Matt (splintermcinnes)
8. OlberJ
9. lodgeman
10. PeteC
11. steviek

Done :D

JMR_AW11

23-05-2007, 12:38

jeremy has a paypal address,id say thats the easiest way... jeremy could you post up your paypal addy or pm everyone on the list please squire?

Id just like to say a massive thankyou to everyone who is contributing up front for these ecu's,especially to those that have said they might not be able to afford the finished product! thats outstanding! only on TB!! :thumbsup:

Im sure jeremy will post progress as it happens although most of it will be right over our heads! lol

Wow I'm impressed by the rapid response of everyone :jump:

As I said to Paul on the phone it's probably best for me to plug the board into the V6 ECU I have here and fire up the ECU and test it on the jig first.

Then once that's working it would be nice to get funding to make a few PCBs.

I've already produced the stock V6 ROM image in upload format and I've redone the logic program to put the board in V6 format. I've also written the on board bootloader program to suit the V6 ECU so new modded ROMs can be easily uploaded via the laptop.

I now need to plug the board in via the height adaptor and then hardwire all the ECU connections to the ECU test jig. I also need to reprogram the jig to dish out V6 type dizzy signals to spoof the ECU that it is a running Camry.

This will take a while as I need to work out the loom/connector pin mapping on the ECU for a couple of dozen connections to the jig.

Then, once I make 2 or 3 boards I'd want to send one to someone for testing.

They would have to be willing to run factory code at first and then maybe try a few modded ROM uploads.

The nice thing about the funding is that I'm much happier to post out that first board.

or is anyone one here close to Cheltenham?

PS How many teeth/wheels are there in the dizzy for the G1 G2 signals?

Does each bank of three cylinders run at 120deg or 180 deg? I really need to know this for the jig so I don't confuse the ECU with the wrong pattern of dizzy signals.

OlberJ

23-05-2007, 12:44

This is the sorta stuff we thrive on.

Grassroots motoring. :mrgreen:

IIRC there's 2 pistons at TDC at anyone time so would that equate to 120*?

Rosssco

23-05-2007, 13:21

Ofcourse one step at a time, but would this not be a really good product for the 1MZ-FE to help overcome the OB2 system that prevents significant modification / tuning and also control the VVTi system?

Or have I exposed my limited of knowledge on this subject? :confused:

Ross

biteme

23-05-2007, 15:13

Sod that, let's just get MAP based running... BOOST!!

Have I just said that? :P

Paul Woods

23-05-2007, 19:02

fantastic jeremy! i havent a clue about most of what you posted lol but its good to know your funding is there when you need to take it to the next level :thumbsup:

So i guess we just need to let you get on with it until you reach that stage?

GaryA

23-05-2007, 21:38

Would you be able to tune it with a PDA ? Just i don't have a laptop :roll:

locogeoff

23-05-2007, 23:52

If the request is still open I'll make a donation, so you can add me to the list, would be very interested in technical details.

Lee

24-05-2007, 00:09

Definitely interested in this!!! A Plug and play mappable ecu at a decent price sounds perfect to me. Especially as mine will be boosted too.

I have virtually no idea at all what Jeremy is saying, but what I can tell is he knows what he's doing :)

Can I be down on the list? Is there a paypal address I can contribute to?

Paul Woods

24-05-2007, 06:49

fantastic support lads! the more that support the cheaper it gets for everyone.... jeremy is going to take it to the next level so he knows its workable before we donate

Paul Woods

24-05-2007, 06:50

oh and lee,nobody knows what jeremy is talking about! lol but he certainly knows his onions.

petec

24-05-2007, 07:13

oh and lee,nobody knows what jeremy is talking about!

:hidesbehi

Sadly not everyone Paul

biteme

24-05-2007, 08:09

I got a fair idea on the theory of it ...

not the practical bit though!!

OohMatron

24-05-2007, 08:43

I ain't got a feckin clue..!!

But it all sounds good :thumbsup:

chris99

24-05-2007, 09:03

JMR_AW11

24-05-2007, 19:50

Would you be able to tune it with a PDA ? Just i don't have a laptop :roll:

It would be possible with certain PDAs eg a HP2210.

But you can buy a creaky laptop on ebay for £50 that would run my software.
eg a Pentium 233MHz or better. (I use a pentium 100MHz laptop and that runs fine but it must be struggling a bit)

JMR_AW11

24-05-2007, 20:01

OK, here's the latest.

I've progd everything up on the ROM board so it is V6 compatible (running factory code/maps) and I've slapped it into the V6 ECU and wired it up to the test jig (the test jig produces fake sensor signals to spoof the ECU that it is in a running car)

I have literally just fired it up and it seems to be fine...:thumbsup:

It's early days as the V6 ECU code is quite new to me but I can talk to the ECU in real time with the laptop and it is giving the correct data back, eg I've asked it for the ROM version of the ECU and it replies correctly.

Also the RPM looks correct as well.

I did ramp up the rpm to look for a rev limit and it cuts the fuel injector pulses at (approx) 6700rpm.

Is that correct? I need to find this stuff in the ECU code to confirm but have I calculated the RPM correct wrt the 24 tooth dizzy?

There's loads of stuff for me to test before I get too confident but it does look like this ECU will be OK to tune with my board.

OlberJ

24-05-2007, 20:06

Grrreat news. RPM is around about there.

JMR_AW11

24-05-2007, 20:28

So what ECU connections get missed off when a V6 to MR2 conversion is done?

I need to know this so I can test this ECU thoroughly. I guess the auto gearbox conns get missed out?

Paul mentioned a mod that removes the speed signal to prevent glitches in the power delivery (auto gbox hangover)

I need details so I can replicate this on the jig and remove the problem (but keep the speed sensor)

loadswine

24-05-2007, 23:17

I'd put myself down for this as well, as it sounds excellent, but haven't actually got the V6 yet, later in the year and the 6 will be in, so this has to be done. I'm happy to front up a deposit for this if necessary.

Marksman

24-05-2007, 23:25

Gearbox, power steering, cruise control and aircon are all left empty, at least on the MK1 swap. What else folks?

Cheers,

Owen.

OlberJ

24-05-2007, 23:45

What about the EGR, that the bit Jim referred to already?

biteme

25-05-2007, 00:13

roseward

25-05-2007, 00:19

I be more than willing to put more dosh up front if it gets the job done sooner ??

splintermcinnes

25-05-2007, 01:28

still no details as to where to send the money??!!

Paul Woods

25-05-2007, 07:38

JMR_AW11

25-05-2007, 09:02

I had a fairly good play with the reprog V6 ECU and datalogging yesterday and so far so good.

I've got it datalogging the following so far:

rpm
EFI duration
Ign timing
TPS
AFM
IDL
THW Coolant temp
THA Air temp
Vehicle Speed

All this data comes from the databus inside the ECU. There's loads more stuff to datalog but I need to work out the commands to get the extra data. I've only found the main ECU commands above so far.

note:
It appears that the overfuelling at high rpm and high load is enough to put the injectors into 100% duty. the 3SGTE ECU does this as well and it's a bit of a surprise as i thought having the injectors on all the time was bad for them. Obviously not... or Toyota wouldn't do it.

I'm going to need a second ECU soon so I can compare stock to reprog easily.
Also a set of ECU plugs would be useful as I currently have to solder direct to the ECU PCB with the jig. Not good and not easy to disconnect!

JMR_AW11

25-05-2007, 09:06

matt we arent sending money until jeremy is 100% sure he can take it to the next level.

jeremy the mod i do to the wiring to lock out the speed signal is providing pin 9 on the 22 pin plug (purple/yellow wire called SP1) with a fixed 5v feed,which i borrow from the blue/red wire on the 16 pin plug that goes to the TPS,this stops the ecu retarding the timing between auto gearshift points.

Thanks Paul

I may have to speak to you on the phone about the gearshift/timing as so far I've not seen it on my ECU.

I guess I'll have to drive the rpm/tps/sp1 inputs just like a real car when accelerating.

OlberJ

25-05-2007, 09:25

Surely we can replicate the ECU plugs with parts from a matalin (or is it maplin) catalogue and the wiring pin outs?

Or are they unique Toyota plugs?

jimi

25-05-2007, 12:29

Surely we can replicate the ECU plugs with parts from a matalin (or is it maplin) catalogue and the wiring pin outs?

Or are they unique Toyota plugs?
Their unique to Toyota, it's a right royal pain trying to rig some up, I know I've tried with some of the other connectors when I've been playing, much much easier with the correct plugs, especially with what Jeremy is doing.

splintermcinnes

25-05-2007, 12:43

matt we arent sending money until jeremy is 100% sure he can take it to the next level.

Ah ok. i thought he heended it to get the ball rolling. but from reading this he seems to be getting on quite well!:thumbsup: well, i asume so, most of his stuff goes well above my head!!!!!

Keep up the good work.

Matt

JMR_AW11

25-05-2007, 18:50

I've solved the mystery of the speed sensor vs upshift vs ign timing...

There are TWO speed sensor inputs to the ECU!

One for the engine management MCU chip and one for the Auto gearbox MCU chip. No wonder I couldn't see any dips in timing during speed/rpm changes, I was using the wrong input for the auto MCU chip!

I've just coupled up a speed signal to the Auto gbox SP2 input and the ignition timing now totally nosedives during gearshifts!

I see why this was a problem now!

I guess the current mod is actually quite adequate for now but I'll have a quick look at what the reprog ECU can do to cancel out this 'correction' in the code for the ignition timing.

I've had a play with the ignition maps and the fuel maps and the datalogging shows the expected changes in the fuelling and timing.

The main fuel correction map is a bit crude as it is only 8x9 in size. It's a correction map so not quite as bad as the noddy 8x8 maps in the Megasquirt 1 that do the bulk of the fuelling in a single map.

Fortunately this is just a quick tweak in the code to make the maps bigger.
Toyota had limited map space in the stock ECU but my board has loads of room for bigger maps.

I'll probably bump up the fuel map size to approx 16x12.

Is there any point extending the rpm range of this ECU?

The rev limiter can be raised easily and the map range can be extended in 400rpm steps no probs. It's currently mapped to around 6800rpm.

Will the V6 engine be able to withstand higher rpm? eg it's a piece of cake to extend the table size to 20x12 to add an extra 1600rpm of mapping.

my mk1 ECU runs 21x10 (rpm x load) tables as a comparison (stock was 17x8)

GaryA

25-05-2007, 18:54

Why oh why did i cross off electronics and tick auto engineering when i had to choose my CSE's , it's lost me this electronics wizardry ! Top work

Marksman

25-05-2007, 18:58

What the hell. For the sake of one Camry engine why not up it a thousand RPM and see what happens?

Owen.

biteme

25-05-2007, 19:07

This has got me fasicanted. If you could go 16x16 points then there's no reason why we can't get some great resolution on our maps.

Would it be worth an extra few quid per person to have donor engine for Jeremy to work with, should he need one?

Paul Woods

25-05-2007, 19:13

jeremy sorry about the phone call,my battery went dead and that was the end of that! i was just about to explain that the camry speed sensor (gearbox one) outputs a 5.5v signal,ive no clue what sort of signal,might be a square wave or i dunno!!! but when a meter is put on the signal wire its showing 5.5v.....now i compared that to the signal coming from the mr2 clocks speed reed and it was 7.5v in strength,when we connect the mr2 dash speed signal to Sp1 it doesnt like it at all and we see the blip as the timing retards.

It was then i thought about supplying Sp1 with a fixed 5v supply (i figured its as close to 5.5v as i can manage) and luckily for us it cured the problem,im guessing he ecu is locked in a certain gear and doesnt know an upshift or downshift is due?

Anyway thats what we've had to "cobble" together up to now to get the auto ecu to behave.

Rpm wise jinja has seen 8k rpm from his SC v6 with the heads ported right out,thats a genuine 8k verified by dyno as far as i know....so lets provide mapping for 8k if at all possible?

JMR_AW11

25-05-2007, 19:34

Hi Paul
I fed the signal to both SP1 and SP2.

I've not tried SP2 on its own though. SP2 is on connector B pin16.

I'll allow the tables to go to 8000rpm as the top limit then :thumbsup:

Also, the stock AFM has a firmware limiter which clips off the signal inside the ECU code so even if the flapper was modded it has a fixed ceiling for airflow inside the ECU code. It's easy to tweak this in the code so the AFM could show higher flow rates without clipping.

Fizzy

25-05-2007, 19:46

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G
4. OohMatron
5. Roseward
6. Wombat
7. Matt (splintermcinnes)
8. OlberJ
9. lodgeman
10. PeteC
11. steviek
12. locogeoff
13. Lee
14. chris99 - (bloody hell 14th again:thumbsup: )
15. Fizzy

I'm happy to contribute to this as it sounds like its got a lot of potential - and will hopefully sort out the last remaining niggles (idle and speed changing issue etc?) as well as free up a few more horses.

I spent ages trying to track down an manual ecu for this engine, with no luck - this sounds like an even better idea. :D

Lemme know how much,when and to where as appropriate.

Love the techy info - I like seeing how everything works. Keep it up! :thumbsup:

OlberJ

25-05-2007, 22:22

This is definitely the missing link. Loving the way it's unfolding. Fuck your 24 and Lost, this is wayyyy more interesting. :popcorn:

splintermcinnes

26-05-2007, 00:17

loadswine

26-05-2007, 00:26

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G
4. OohMatron
5. Roseward
6. Wombat
7. Matt (splintermcinnes)
8. OlberJ
9. lodgeman
10. PeteC
11. steviek
12. locogeoff
13. Lee
14. chris99 - (bloody hell 14th again:thumbsup: )
15. Fizzy
16. Loadswine

I've added my name , and am happy to contribute when necessary , even though I haven't got my V6 yet!

JMR_AW11

26-05-2007, 10:06

:believe: :believe: :believe: :believe: :believe: :believe: :believe: :believe:

this is gold dust! love all this techy info. keep it coming.:thumbsup: :praise2:

is there a fitted version on the horizon? to do some on the road tests?
Well I suppose this ECU I have could be roadtested soon.

I had a look yesterday at stuff like the error codes and the knock sensor and this didn't go so smoothly.

Are there two error code indicators on the Camry? I can get error code info but not from the expected pin on the ECU.

I'm grounding TE1 with V supply set >12V, IDL on, NSW and with no speed sensor pulses but I don't get what I expect.

I tried it with the ECU set back to stock (my board removed) and it's the same.

Does anyone have error code charts for this engine?

Does it have another chart of error codes for the auto box part of the ECU?

Also, I can't get it to respond to knock signals on the two knock sensor inputs. I had similar trouble with the 3SGTE ECUs until I discovered the correct frequency to inject the signal at.

Also I have to apply the spoof knock signals at the correct part of the crank rotation on the 3SGTE ECU for it to accept the signal as genuine knock.

Looks like this ECU is also quite fussy and able to discriminate quite well against signals that don't have the correct knock 'signature'

I've heard the knock freq is affected by bore/stroke etc so I guess I may have to look at using a different frequency to spoof the ECU with fake knock signals.

JMR_AW11

26-05-2007, 10:10

I've added my name , and am happy to contribute when necessary , even though I haven't got my V6 yet!
Thanks to everyone who is supporting this project.

This is a great forum :driving:

Marksman

26-05-2007, 10:12

How about a complete Camry with a data logger wired into it driven around for a few weeks? Then the same think with a MR2 conversion to see what is being altered or left out.

O.S.

biteme

26-05-2007, 12:10

We could plug it into Sam's Camry. He drives it everyday, and for good distances.

Plus, he looks like a guineapig too :)

JMR_AW11

26-05-2007, 13:00

It will need a roadtest soon...

But for now I'm still stuck on the error code analysis.

I've found out that the codes I get out of the 'other' ECU pin are for the auto gearbox.:thumbsup:

I get error codes 62, 63, 64 which means it's failed to detect the presence of the three auto gearbox solenoids (no surprise as the nearest Camry auto 'box to my house must be quite a few miles away...)

I'm not sure how the main ECU section copes with this error yet. It must be worried about having no solenoids for gearshifting though...

has anyone ever looked at the normal codes for this ECU?

I assume they will be the same list as other Toyota ECUs. I still can't get any normal W lamp codes to flash on the V6 ECU even with it converted back to stock (my board removed). I've tried forcing THW and TPS errors and I still get no life out of the W lamp. I've even traced the signal back through the ECU i case the bulb driver cct is faulty. .....nothing. The W lamp is off at all times. I can make it light by injecting a signal inside the ECU so the W lamp cct is fine.

The ECU runs fine otherwise so I must be missing a trick here.

I've got +12.5V at the ECU.
It's got IDL closed
The speed is zero.
TE1 is grounded to E1
NSW set to neutral

This fires up the auto box error codes no probs but not the normal codes.
Is there another pin to ground or something?

Jiff Lemon

26-05-2007, 15:14

Just a thought - Didn't Fizzy have a manual V6 ECU from the states? Be interesting to see the differences (if any!)

Oh, and i thought E1 got grounded and TE1 was the earth for the Warning lamp?

biteme

26-05-2007, 16:00

I don't think Fizzy's was a proper 3VZ - I think it was the 2VZ one, it was mis-sold, IIRC.

superchargedsam

26-05-2007, 19:20

happy to do any road testing needed and pass your way quite often fella so meeting up aint an issue (and if you need to borrow my SC for testing just let me know as its sat idle at the moment ;) )

biteme

26-05-2007, 19:50

JMR_AW11

26-05-2007, 20:36

Jeremy, I got a question about how to map these.

Is it as simple, as say getting access to the fuel/ign tables via PPC or a laptop and then spend some time on the dyno?

If thats the case, this could be perfect for having a standard "remap" then another base map for various different mods.

Will you require anything to get it working with MAP based solutions rather than AFM? I'm happy to donate extra to try to get this working.
To remap it will just require the user to edit the maps in tabular form on the laptop. They then get uploaded with a mouse click.

Then restart the car and the maps will have been updated.

In the future I'll add a real time version that allows real time tuning on a rolling road but that is a long way off.

I could change the code to MAP sensor format but it's a lot of work and I won't be looking at that for quite a while.

Is the ECU of limited use with AFM? It seems a waste for me to write a load of tuning SW if people then want to ditch the AFM for a MAP sensor system.

If people don't want the stock AFM system then maybe this is the wrong ECU for me to play with. The rev1 and rev2 3SGTE owners were saying the same things to me... i.e. ditch the AFM.

What is the limit of the AFM on this engine? I've heard the MR2 AFM works up to 300hp. Are most people on here going to turbo the engine?

biteme

26-05-2007, 20:56

I didn't want to open a can of worms here, sorry.

I believe the majority of them will want to maybe just keep the car N/A and port the heads, decat, exhaust etc and run at teh 240bhp region.

As for forced induction, there's a few of us. But standard V6 is far more popular.

I believe the AFM is a 400bhp limit on this engine.

I'd just like to say that even if I do go along a standalone ECU, which I probably will, my donation stays. I'm very excited about how this will turn out, and it's only a good thing for the V6 community.

splintermcinnes

26-05-2007, 20:57

jeremy,
the afm is fine to use with the stock V6 and mild tuning. its when we then take it further by use of either SC or Turbo, thats when the MAP sensor will be utilised and the need for the AFM to be ditched.

so as a start point its fine to leave it with the AFM. for most of us thats fine. all depends on money and how far people are willing to take it.

as there will soon be turbo kits avaliable people will want the development to go to the next level. im sure it will be a profitable venture as full stand alone is very expensive!!

Matt

Marksman

26-05-2007, 21:01

Don't forget that 1000 BHP GT40 twin turbo was AFM based...

O.S.

biteme

26-05-2007, 21:06

But the AFM had the resolution for that... I don't plan on 400bhp hehehe.

roseward

26-05-2007, 21:16

I know iam :)

going to turbo it that is .....

splintermcinnes

26-05-2007, 21:36

But the AFM had the resolution for that... I don't plan on 400bhp hehehe.

me thinks mr G has more ponnies inmind!!:mrgreen:

JMR_AW11

26-05-2007, 23:54

I just remembered I've got an old EFI service database on an old laptop and this has a few 1990s Toyotas and the UK Camry 3VZFE V6 is listed.

It gives the ECU pinouts but they don't agree with the pinouts in the big pdf file for the 1992 camry. ( a few pins are swapped)

Also for some reason it says 'no fault codes' for the ECU but it lists all the codes for the other models.

Does anyone know anyone who works for Toyota who could get the true pinouts for this ECU?

Also the fault codes and the method to activate them

Jinja

27-05-2007, 00:07

Just seen this thread. Excellent work and just goes to show what a great site this is :thumbsup:

Stick me down for a contribution. I'm going stand alone but this is all for a good cause :)

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G
4. OohMatron
5. Roseward
6. Wombat
7. Matt (splintermcinnes)
8. OlberJ
9. lodgeman
10. PeteC
11. steviek
12. locogeoff
13. Lee
14. chris99 - (bloody hell 14th again )
15. Fizzy
16. Jinja

:) :) :) :) :)

Paul Woods

27-05-2007, 10:24

JMR_AW11

27-05-2007, 11:12

jeremy i cant understand why you arent seeing a W lamp flash... when i do the swaps it works perfectly by bridging Te1 and E1.

If it helps heres what you will need connecting on the 4th ecu plug (far right plug)

reading from the top right pin going left

1/12v ign
2/12v battery perm
4/check engine warning lamp
9/speed signal input (SP1)
11/starter signal

then bottom row far right pin ....

12/12v ign
13/12v ign

With the above connected and TE1/E1 bridged the ECU should be alive and reporting error codes or a single constant flash if no codes stored.

This is really weird...

I don't have the speed sensor as pin 9 but I do have pin 4 as the warning lamp W.

On my ECU if I ground TE1 then I get error codes flashing out of pin 9 where you have a speed sensor input. Pin 9 traces back to the collector of a transistor and this transistor winks up and down with gearbox error codes if I ground TE1.

So I fitted an LED + resistor to pin 9 and this flashes out the error codes fine.

I get errors 62 63 64 which is due to the missing solenoids on the gearbox.

(I need to fit dummy resistors on the solenoid pins to cure that)

I can also see the ignition timing switch to the service setting if I ground TE1 with IDL closed at idle speed on the engine so I know I've got TE1 correct.

But pin4 (W) does nothing...

pin 8 is the speed sensor on my ecu.
Are we looking at the same ECU model?

Paul Woods

27-05-2007, 11:21

JMR_AW11

27-05-2007, 11:27

BTW I also have the Camry 3VZFE ECU pinouts from the Omitec database but I'm going to ignore that info as each time I look at their database I find silly mistakes and typo errors. They obviously didn't spend any time checking their database on the Toyota models.

Their chart of ECU pins doesn't even agree with itself in that the description chart has different pin names to the names on the connector diagram for the corresponding ECU pin number. Hopeless...

JMR_AW11

27-05-2007, 11:39

very very odd....every v6 ecu from 91-96 is the same on its pinouts,the only difference ive ever seen was the omission of 12v ign from pin1 on 1 or 2 ecus,but the rest were the same.

Pin 9 is definately speed sensor,pin 4 def engine W light,it flashes and reports codes fine on hooking up to an mr2....i cant explain that jeremy.

If we name this connector as connector D and the rest are C B and A

then I have speed sensor inputs on pins D8 and B16.

This agrees with the 1992 wiring diagram in that big pdf file I sent you.
It also kind of agrees with the Omitec database if you ignore their typo errors and assume that SP2 and ST2 are the same thing i.e. speed sensor 2 on pin B16.

They also have speed sensor 1 on pin D8 which agrees.

If I feed pulses into D8 then the datalogging shows the correct speed data so I'm happy that D8 is a speed sensor. On Omitec they say pin D9 is cruise control (doesn't say input or output) and this is the pin I can get error codes from for the auto 'box MCU in the ECU.

Pin B16 was the input I had to inject speed pulses into to get the ignition timing to glitch down during gearshifts.

Everyone agrees that pin D4 is the W lamp but I can't make it flash....:sad:

Paul Woods

27-05-2007, 11:48

JMR_AW11

27-05-2007, 11:58

hmmm...i just dont understand it,D4 is W lamp for sure,are you looking for a + pulse or an earthing pulse on D4 or both? maybe theres a problem with that ecu jeremy?

maybe we have been presuming D9 (Purple/yellow wire) was speed signal all along when in fact it isnt? maybe D8 is the speed signal after all,so if thats the case then i cured the timing retardation by hooking 5v up to D9 by pure fluke!

D4 appears to go to a transistor collector via a resistor. Therefore I put an LED + resistor on W output fed up to 12V. So if the W pin goes low then the LED lights. This is the same way I do it on all ECUs. I can see that there is no pulsing signal to the transistor input when I ground pin TE1 but pin D9 bangs out gearbox error codes no problem.

I'll try fitting the resistors to the solenoid o/ps on the ECU to see if it behaves better once it's happy it has a 'gearbox' fitted.

JMR_AW11

27-05-2007, 12:23

Just rechecked my wiring and found I'd missed off one of the 12V connections to connector D so now the W lamp flashes out codes! :thumbsup:

Sorry for the confusion...:doh:

Are the codes the same as other Toyotas?

I want to know the code for the knock sensor(s) and also the O2 sensors.

I'll bung the reprog board back into the ECU once I get the codes sorted.

Paul Woods

27-05-2007, 15:13

Paul Woods

27-05-2007, 15:15

for info jeremy i tried to fit an mr2 knock sensor to a v6 once (looked an identical part) and it wouldnt work,so these sensors and ecu are very finely tuned to each other i think,even the knock sensors location seems critical to give the correct signature.

JMR_AW11

27-05-2007, 15:27

OK I think I've got most of the codes by playing with the test jig.

The next headache is the dizzy again.

I know it has 24 teeth for the NE signal but now I need to know how it arranges G1 and G2.
Are these on another wheel(s)? eg is it a one tooth wheel for G1 and another one tooth wheel for G2?

I've looked on the Omitec database at their 3VZFE dizzy waveform info and it's not much use.

Ideally I'd like to know how the engine times the spark on the IGT signal wrt the NE and G1 (and G2) signals and also how it echoes back the IGf signal in relation to IGt.

I've always been able to measure this stuff on an MR2 using a scope.

I need this info so I can definately spoof the ECU correctly with the test jig and test the knock sensor inputs vs ignition retard.

JMR_AW11

27-05-2007, 15:31

thank god for that jeremy! thought i was going mad! still doesnt explain pin D8 and D9 though? or is that rectified too with the extra IGN input?

Ive got a full list of camry error codes but they are at work,from memory code 52 and 55 (i think!) are the knock sensor codes depending on which bank knock sensor is down.
Thanks.

I don't think the pin 8 and pin 9 difference will be affected by my missing wire (but TBH I haven't checked yet)

Once I get the knock sensor running I'll be a lot happier. Then I'll put the reprog board back in and test it again.

jimi

27-05-2007, 15:45

Jeremy
Here's some info on the error codes I've picked up over the years, may be of use to you
Toyota auto tramission codes
http://autorepair.about.com/library/faqs/bl153g.htm

Pulling camry codes
http://autorepair.about.com/library/a/1h/bl750h.htm

Diagnostic Trouble Codes - 1990
Toyota
11 ECU Power Supply.
12 Engine RPM Signal.
13 Engine RPM Signal.
14 Ignition Signal.
21 Oxygen Sensor (OS) Signal.
22 Water Temperature Sensor (THW) Signal.
24 Intake Air Temperature Sensor (THA) Signal.
25 Air/Fuel ratio lean.
26 Air/Fuel ratio rich.
27 Sub-oxygen sensor signal.
31 Air Flow Meter Signal.
32 Air Flow Meter Signal.
41 Throttle Position Sensor (TPS).
42 Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) Signal.
43 Starter Circuit Signal.
51 Switch Condition Signal.
71 EGR system malfunction

Diagnostic Trouble Codes - 1991
Toyota
12 Engine RPM Signal.
13 Engine RPM Signal.
14 Ignition Signal.
16 ECT Control Signal.
21 Oxygen Sensor (OS) Signal.
22 Water Temperature Sensor (THW) Signal.
24 Intake Air Temperature Sensor (THA) Signal.
25 Air/Fuel ratio lean.
26 Air/Fuel ratio rich.
27 Sub-oxygen sensor signal.
31 Air Flow Meter Signal.
32 Air Flow Meter Signal.
41 Throttle Position Sensor (TPS).
42 Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) Signal.
43 Starter Circuit Signal.
51 Switch Condition Signal.
52 Knock Control Signal.
71 EGR system malfunction.

Diagnostic Trouble Codes - 1992
Toyota
12 Engine RPM Signal.
13 Engine RPM Signal.
14 Ignition Signal.
16 ECT Control Signal.
21 Oxygen Sensor (OS) Signal.
22 Water Temperature Sensor (THW) Signal.
24 Intake Air Temperature Sensor (THA) Signal.
25 Air/Fuel ratio lean.
26 Air/Fuel ratio rich.
27 Sub-oxygen sensor signal.
31 Air Flow Meter Signal.
32 Air Flow Meter Signal.
41 Throttle Position Sensor (TPS).
42 Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) Signal.
43 Starter Circuit Signal.
51 Switch Condition Signal.
52 Knock Control Signal.
71 EGR system malfunction.

Diagnostic Trouble Codes - 1993
Toyota
12 Engine RPM Signal.
13 Engine RPM Signal.
14 Ignition Signal.
16 ECT Control Signal.
21 Oxygen Sensor (OS) Signal.
22 Water Temperature Sensor (THW) Signal.
24 Intake Air Temperature Sensor (THA) Signal.
25 Air/Fuel ratio lean.
26 Air/Fuel ratio rich.
27 Sub-oxygen sensor signal.
28 Main Oxygen Sensor (OS) Signal.
31 Air Flow Meter Signal.
32 Air Flow Meter Signal.
41 Throttle Position Sensor (TPS).
42 Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) Signal.
43 Starter Circuit Signal.
51 Switch Condition Signal.
52 Knock Control Signal.
71 EGR system malfunction.

Diagnostic Trouble Codes - 1994
Toyota
12 G, NE Signal Circuit No. 1.
13 G, NE Signal Circuit No. 2.
14 Ignition Signal.
16 ECT Control Signal.
21 Oxygen Sensor (OS) Signal.
22 Water Temperature Sensor (THW) Signal.
24 Intake Air Temperature Sensor (THA) Signal.
25 Air/Fuel ratio lean.
26 Air/Fuel ratio rich.
27 Sub-oxygen sensor signal.
31 Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor Signal.
41 Throttle Position Sensor (TPS).
42 Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) Signal.
43 Starter Circuit Signal.
51 Switch Condition Signal.
52 Knock Control Signal.
71 EGR system malfunction.

Paul Woods

27-05-2007, 15:48

good info jimi,single bank engines have code 52,im sure V engines have 55 also for the other bank knock sensor.

jimi

27-05-2007, 16:07

Paul
did you know about pulling the codes in "Test mode" as it is described in this linkCLICKY (http://autorepair.about.com/library/a/1h/bl750h.htm)
first time I've seen that ......I think !

Paul Woods

27-05-2007, 16:19

jimi i wasnt aware of this test mode either! nice find mate! but what exactly does test mode tell us thats different to normal mode,i must admit ive always just bridged out te1 and e1 prior to turning on the ignition,which would be "test mode" according to the link,but whats the difference?

JMR_AW11

27-05-2007, 17:38

Thanks for the code charts, they agree with the codes I've forced so far.

I'm still struggling with the stock ECU. It is not playing the same as the 4 cyl ECUs I've seen up till now.

Eg I can't get it to give a knock sensor failure code. Also it now won't go into closed loop, i.e. I can't steer the fuelling with the o2 sensor inputs even if I gang both o2 inputs together. (assuming I've got the right ECU pins for the o2 sensors)

On all 4 cyl ECUs these are quick and easy tests.

It would be so much easier if we could find someone at Toyota who has access to the UK Camry wiring and ECU pin data and also the dizzy signal info.

It could be I've still got the ECU pinouts wrong or my fake dizzy signals are wrong. Omitec have definitely got the 3VZFE ECU pinouts wrong on their database...

I just do electronics and I can hack microcontrollers all day long but I need to know the peripheral stuff is 100% wired correctly or nothing makes sense easily. eg There's no way I'm going to reverse engineer the pinouts on this ECU by working back from the MCU code/ports through the circuit board to the ECU pins. That would take ages.

The other way to do it is for me to just slap the reprog board back in and put the ECU in a real car and assume the wiring sorts itself out via the loom and see if it runs closed loop on the datalogging. i.e. I forget about testing it offline on a jig. The best car to try it on would be a totally stock Camry V6.

Paul Woods

27-05-2007, 17:45

jeremy i get stock camrys in all the time,so if you want me to test something im more than happy

biteme

27-05-2007, 17:54

And I've already volunteered to Paul to try ECU in mine ... I'm happy to give you any and all feedback :)

JMR_AW11

27-05-2007, 18:20

I really need to be there when it's tried in the car as I'd want to scroll through the data inside the ECU via the datalogging as it's driven.

I've got the same problem with the MR2 3SGTE ECU in that I need access to a test vehicle.

On the MR2 ECU everything works great on the jig with (or without) my board plugged in, eg open and closed loop fuelling and also the knock sensor is fine on the datalogging. I can inject a knock signal and datalog it as it retards the timing and adds fuel.

I'd really want to test my board in the MR2 and also the V6 before making any more.

biteme

27-05-2007, 18:22

Well, I could happily drive to meet you somewhere one weekend and we can go through a test program?

As I said, I'm just happy to help whenever I can.

JMR_AW11

27-05-2007, 18:28

Well, I could happily drive to meet you somewhere one weekend and we can go through a test program?

As I said, I'm just happy to help whenever I can.

Sounds good. Will this be a car with a V6 or a 3SGTE?

The test will be quite simple... find a quiet road and see if it drives as stock under all driving styles.

It's not worth changing the mapping unless we did the tests on a RR.

I'm near Cheltenham, where are you?

biteme

27-05-2007, 18:33

JMR_AW11

27-05-2007, 19:23

It'll be the first SC V6 that PW did!

I'm up in Liverpool, but I know Cheltenham. I've worked at RAF Innsworth and GCHQ. I stopped in Kandinsky's Hotel and ate at the Mandarin Kite!

Agree with mapping. We can monitor RPM in real time? I'd like to verify my tacho is accurate.

Are there any RR's near you?

There are two RRs within 10 miles.

One of them is within a mile (powerstation)

Yes the datalogging does rpm. At the minute it has 50rpm resolution but it can display it to less than 1rpm resolution. It's referenced to the ECU clock crystal so it's very accurate.

Also AFM, EFI pulse width, ign timing, TPS coolant temp, air temp, vehicle speed in real time. (plus loads more when I work out the commands for this ECU)

Powerstation is run by a guy called Rich and he tested my tunable mk1 ECU a couple of years ago for me. That had real time tuning etc.

JMR_AW11

27-05-2007, 20:12

Couple of things...

I've managed to work out what test conditions it needs for the knock sensor test so now I get the correct detection of no knock sensor if I turn off my signal to the input pins.

I get codes 52 and 55.

If I add a small signal to the knock inputs the ECU stops throwing the code.

If I add a big knock signal (gated on/off at the right part of the crank rotation) it retards the ignition as expected

Also the closed loop fuelling WAS working all along.... it's just a lot slower to tune than the other ECUs, eg it takes ages for it to tune and track the o2 sensor inputs. Dunno why this is but it is ultra slow to trim the fuelling and it does it in ultra small steps.

I guess it's time to put the ROM board back in and repeat all the tests again with stock code running.

This ECU isn't giving up without a fight!

JMR_AW11

27-05-2007, 20:42

OK the ROM board is back into the ECU and it runs exactly the same as stock.

The error codes are the same when forced and the fuel and ignition pulses and timing are the same.

Also the closed loop fuelling runs the same and so does the knock detection and retard.

I haven't actually done anything 'new' today to the ROM board but I guess I've gone a bit further to prove it's going to work fine in the ECU when in a car.

piece of cake.... :liar:

JMR_AW11

27-05-2007, 21:00

Is this due to the adaptive mapping facility this ecu is capable of do you think, or some other factor? :hmm:

I don't know yet. I expect the ECU to have a pair of fuel trim values that reflect how hard it has to work in order to keep the o2 sensors toggling. I guess this will tune and adjust quite slowly! I can steer this end to end on an SC ECU in a few seconds. It will probably take a lot longer on this ECU.

All this stuff can be datalogged and I might spend an hour or so making a dedicated datalogger GUI for the V6.

I did this for a couple of mk1 SC owners and they can display/datalog quite a lot of stuff as they drive the car. I even put a real time 'scope' display on the laptop showing the o2 sensor voltage along with fuel duration and ignition and knock detection display. Also all the usual stuf like rpm and tps etc.

Also fuel economy in real time. It's possible to show mpg because the ECU knows the vehicle speed, rpm and fuel pulse width in real time. You just need to know the injector flow rate in cc/min and it's a simple sum to display mpg.

JMR_AW11

28-05-2007, 09:43

Last night I also had a look at the ROM code for the speed sensor/upshift correction on the ignition timing.

I found where it corrects the ign timing during upshifts quite easily as it's the same point in the code where it corrects for knock.

So I guess I can force the upshift correction to always be zero (the knock correction will still be OK)

The way it gets the value for the upshift correction appears to involve some mapping code etc but I guess the best way is to just force the correction to be zero at the end of the routine.

This will kill the auto upshift glitches in the ign timing for good. :thumbsup:

Were there any other bugs in the (auto) V6 ECU when fitted to a manual car?

Someone mentioned idle problems...

biteme

28-05-2007, 10:44

Incredible work Jeremy.

Top notch.

Marksman

28-05-2007, 11:02

Perfect. Just that code spat back into an eprom would be a godsend in these parts.

Great work,

Owen.

JMR_AW11

28-05-2007, 11:29

Yeah the idle used to drop off on ocassion, yet while the engine was fitted in the camry it never did.

The following is a short list of items that arent present (usually) on the conversion.

SP2 sensor is missing as its still in the auto box.
Solenoids are missing.
Cruise ecu missing.
Most cars lose the A/c pump too

I guess the solenoids can be replaced with dummy resistors.

Now according to the cct diagrams pin D9 is the cruise control dash lamp.

I reckon that if you ground TE1 it does a second set of flashed codes on the dash for the auto part of the ECU. This would only work on a Camry though, unless you fitted a resistor + LED to pin D9.

so the Camry dash would have two dash lamps to look at for ECU diagnostics.

i.e. the usual W lamp and also the cruise control on/off lamp.

pin D9 also does something else as the wire taps off somewhere else on the wiring diagram so it may have more than one function.

Also this diagram is not the UK Camry (AFAIK) so pin D9 could be wired different again...

JMR_AW11

28-05-2007, 13:13

As far as i know, the auto trans codes get flashed thru the O/D (pin C9) light jeremy, well certainly the info i have says so. :)
I cant see any references to D9 tho on any of the stuff ive got either on the cruise, A/T or ecu diagrams....? :hmm:

I guess it's the same ECU pin only I've called it D9 and you have it as C9.

I noticed the Toyota wiring document (pdf) changes the plug letters around (depends which section you look at) which can get really confusing.

i deffo get the auto trans codes out of it because I've hooked up an LED lamp to it. I also think it's called the O/D pin.

I have a datalogger GUI running now for the V6 which displays in real time and also datalogs to a file for playback. It's pretty much the same GUI I used for the 3SGTE and also the mk1SC ECU but tweaked to suit the V6.

BTW this ECU stays in closed loop a LOT so care will have to be taken when remapping it or it will just relearn and null out the new mapping.

I can show when it is in open or closed loop on the GUI and I'll add an indicator 'LED' on the screen to show this.

I could change it to run closed loop less often if people wanted to map for performance rather than 14.7:1 AFR most of the time.

eg I could alter the thesholds that swap from closed to open loop.

biteme

28-05-2007, 13:30

BTW this ECU stays in closed loop a LOT so care will have to be taken when remapping it or it will just relearn and null out the new mapping.

I can show when it is in open or closed loop on the GUI and I'll add an indicator 'LED' on the screen to show this.

I could change it to run closed loop less often if people wanted to map for performance rather than 14.7:1 AFR most of the time.

eg I could alter the thesholds that swap from closed to open loop.

Would it not be better to change the characteristics one at a time? So we can then see the impact of each inidividual change?

Personally, I'd like to see the fuelling around the 11.8:1 mark for a bit more of a performance point of view.

This has got me really interested.

jimi

28-05-2007, 13:37

Can anyone tell me what pdf your using and where to get a copy, I'd like to compare it with one I've come across to see if they are the same or the one I've found has more info ;)

JMR_AW11

28-05-2007, 14:32

Would it not be better to change the characteristics one at a time? So we can then see the impact of each inidividual change?

Personally, I'd like to see the fuelling around the 11.8:1 mark for a bit more of a performance point of view.

This has got me really interested.

I could make the closed loop thresholds available to the user so you just reflash the old settings (or something in between)

That's the beauty of having full control over the program code.
Eg during engine tuning I could offer a ROM version with no knock correction (but it will still flash up how much knock retard the ECU wanted to add)

This would allow faster (but riskier) tuning as you could tune the engine without fighting against the knock sensor. Then once it's tuned save the maps and reload the maps with the original ROM that has knock retard enabled.

JMR_AW11

28-05-2007, 14:37

Can anyone tell me what pdf your using and where to get a copy, I'd like to compare it with one I've come across to see if they are the same or the one I've found has more info ;)

Either pm me and I'll email it to you or email Paul direct as I sent him a copy by email.

It's abut 240pages and 5Mb in size so I hope you have broadband.

The 3VZFE ECU diagrams are on p210 and 215.

Also they appear in colour earlier in the doc but the connector labelling is different so beware...

It's an infuriating doc to read as they interlace the wiring sheets with another engine type so you have to make sure you check the page is still for the 3VZFE.

jimi

28-05-2007, 16:07

Jeremy
The one I've found is a bgb.pdf for 93 Lexus but includes the 3VZFE engine PDF which has the pinouts,codes and wiring diagrams for the ECU it may be of some use to you if it's different to the one you have.

whoozy

28-05-2007, 16:39

Not sure if i'll have this (probably will though) either way.£££ heres mine when you need it.

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G
4. OohMatron
5. Roseward
6. Wombat
7. Matt (splintermcinnes)
8. OlberJ
9. lodgeman
10. PeteC
11. steviek
12. locogeoff
13. Lee
14. chris99 - (bloody hell 14th again )
15. Fizzy
16. Jinja
17.whoozy

Paul Woods

28-05-2007, 18:57

excellent work jeremy! really top notch.

jimi

28-05-2007, 21:21

Jeremy
YGM

JMR_AW11

02-06-2007, 19:31

Andy ( luthor1 from imoc.co.uk) drove over today and we tested my ROM board in his rev2 turbo MR2 and it works!

There were a few teething problems with the map loading as we could only get it to transfer maps to the ECU on my home computer (this slowed the tests down a bit)

But we tried it with stock code and the engine ran fine and we covered quite a few miles in the car. It ran exactly as a stock rev2 which was what I was hoping for. It was good to see it being run in a real car instead of my simulator jig and it was a chance for me to see the datalogger run for the first time.

We also reduced the rev limit in the program code to 3200rpm to show the code/mapping can be changed and that worked as well.

So I guess that proves the hardware works and I now have to make a decent laptop interface to give an easy to use remapping GUI.

It would be nice to try it in a V6 powered car as well so I'me very keen to retest it in a V6 MR2 or even a Camry!

Paul Woods

03-06-2007, 09:32

excellent work jeremy! who owns a v6 closest to jeremy? that seems to be the next step....

steviek

03-06-2007, 09:59

where does he live?

JMR_AW11

03-06-2007, 10:02

where does he live?
Near Cheltenham, close to J9 M5.

steviek

03-06-2007, 10:10

well me junction 2 m5 but i wont be available 4 a couple of weeks if thats ok for you

JMR_AW11

03-06-2007, 13:00

well me junction 2 m5 but i wont be available 4 a couple of weeks if thats ok for you

That's OK for me. The board is in a rev2 MR2 ECU at the moment and I'll carry on tinkering with the MR2 tuning GUI as there's a few niggles with the file transfer at the moment. So I've got plenty to do.

I'll need a day or two to swap it back and retest it in V6 format before we try it in your car. So you need to let me know in advance when the car is available.

The V6 mapping looks really soft to me and I guess they went for refinement rather than performance in the auto Camry so there may be a few ponies locked away in that engine.

However, it's safest to just test it with stock mapping and maybe adjust a few simple things like the rev limiter (lower it) etc.

steviek

03-06-2007, 13:04

so how long u want the car for a day or a few hours

JMR_AW11

03-06-2007, 13:45

so how long u want the car for a day or a few hours

I just need a quick roadtest with you driving it and you tell me if it runs the same as normal. It will have stock code in it so you should not be able to tell any difference during all kinds of driving. No hesitation or uneven running etc.

Portgordon

16-06-2007, 21:54

How are things progressing in this arena?

:popcorn:

superchargedsam

17-06-2007, 00:55

Near Cheltenham, close to J9 M5.

I often stay less than 20 miles from cheltenham and have a stock camry as daily driver!

biteme

17-06-2007, 13:02

Imagine if he freed up about 30-40 ponies in that, you'd have the quickest camry :)

OlberJ

17-06-2007, 13:08

Quickest we know of over here.

In the states they throw loads of cash at Camry's. There's a few beasts out there.

Or was this just a dig at Sam for having the V6 in the wrong car? lol

biteme

17-06-2007, 13:18

Hint of both really ... it's just an excuse - not that we need one - to have a dig at Sam :)

JMR_AW11

19-06-2007, 18:57

The dev board is still in a 3SGTE ECU at the moment but I could swap it back to the V6 ECU and retest it with a day or two notice if anyone fancies trying it.

I'm currently playing with USB and I plan to fit USB instead of RS-232 as the tuning and diagnostic interface.

This will bring it up to date with modern laptops etc.

biteme

20-06-2007, 09:08

Super stuff Jeremy, can't wait to see this!

petec

02-07-2007, 13:00

So is there any news on this? can't wait :jump:

loadswine

02-07-2007, 16:53

This promises to be really something, might unlock a few horses and enable all the mods to be dialled in. Very cool when its done. Go for it mate!

Fizzy

02-07-2007, 17:37

Well, if it stops my warming up stalling issue (for some reason I get wierd things happening with my pocvip'd icv - think its a duff icv) with my stock icv, gets over the auto/manual box "hack" so it allows in gear optimisations again (if it did anyway??), and smooths out the power band (by having a finer matrix?) that'll do me nicely. Any performance gains will just be a bonus...:thumbsup:

Paul Woods

02-07-2007, 19:45

jeremy,quick Q..will the new ECU be prevented from going onto the safety maps,do we have control on wether they get used or not?

JMR_AW11

02-07-2007, 20:10

jeremy,quick Q..will the new ECU be prevented from going onto the safety maps,do we have control on wether they get used or not?

It's up to you. I could lock out the safety maps forever if you wanted.

Making them user hot swappable isn't as easy.

My guess is the ECU will use them after ECU reset and swap over fairly quickly.

On Andy's 3SGTE it swapped over to the normal maps (after a ECU reset) within a mile! The datalogging can show which maps are being used at any time.

Not much progress has been made recently but Steviek is planning to come down to test the ECU for me soon.

I hope it works as well as it did in the 3SGTE ECU.

I'm kind of worried there might be problems because of the auto BOX part of the ECU.

Paul Woods

03-07-2007, 07:27

biteme

03-07-2007, 08:38

I think I'll be in the market for one of these after all now - Spider! :)

steviek

03-07-2007, 12:11

i am going down the m5 so jeremy can test a ecu on my car this sunday

Fizzy

03-07-2007, 13:12

...and if I ever get my in car pc installed, I can keep an eye on the datalogging in real time. Geeky or what... :nerd: :hidesbehi

JMR_AW11

04-07-2007, 20:32

great! i dont think we have any current issues with the auto box part of the ecu apart from the ecu wanting to pull the timing at set RPM shift points but supplying SP1 with 5v cures that....id personally like the safe maps disabling as they can be a pain in the ass and a bit unnecessary on the v6

OK but the other thing is this car runs closed loop a LOT.

It's not mapped for performance so as I mentioned earlier I'd have to revise the closed loop thresholds to let the ECU break free of 14.7:1 fuelling.

Once this happens I reckon it will need the bigger maps with finer resolution to get the most out of it. The stock fuel maps are pretty small and basic as you could see earlier in this thread. Probably because of this ability of the closed loop to correct it to 14.7:1.

This weekend we'll just make sure the ECU runs OK and I'll knock out the speed sensor correction during shifts and maybe turn down the rev limiter to show the mapping can be changed. Should be able to load new maps whilst sat in the car with a laptop but it does take over a minute to load up the full ROM code.

We can also watch the datalogging and log a journey and look at the fuelling/ignition on a laptop etc.

I've now got the reprog board back in the V6 ECU ready for the weekend.

Portgordon

04-07-2007, 22:10

Exciting times! :D

biteme

04-07-2007, 22:29

I can't wait to see this

Paul Woods

05-07-2007, 06:45

excellent jeremy,thats great news!

Jaemus

05-07-2007, 11:48

Fizzy

05-07-2007, 12:51

Hmm.... thats interesting. I wonder if that could be why mine did so well on the rolling road session a few months back - perhaps its had a replacement ecu of a later type?

Any idea if these are date stamped etc, so I can check?

foxy-stoat

05-07-2007, 16:54

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G
4. OohMatron
5. Roseward
6. Wombat
7. Matt (splintermcinnes)
8. OlberJ
9. lodgeman
10. PeteC
11. steviek
12. locogeoff
13. Lee
14. chris99 - (bloody hell 14th again )
15. Fizzy
16. Jinja
17.whoozy
18. foxy-stoat

what a way to spend an hour at work !!! excellant progress and work here.

Looking forward to see results in a mk2.

:)

Portgordon

05-07-2007, 19:26

JMR_AW11

05-07-2007, 19:40

just a thought, i dont know if youre aware as youve probably never gotten your hands on one, but the 95-96 spec ECU supposedly has a 20hp more powerful tune over the 93-94 model. at least local aus ones do. im still looking for one of these to go with my '96 motor and replace the '93 ecu im using at the moment.

anyway, might it not be worth looking at in the process of optimising the thing? if you can find one that is.

Anyone here got a UK 96 ECU? It would be worth a look at.

BTW I've been looking at the rev limiter code for this (1993?) 89661-33010 ECU and it's a bit odd.

Usually the limit is hard set in the ROM code but on this ECU it gets transferred to RAM so the ECU can alter it.

It looks like it has a fixed rpm limit up at 6700rpm but under certain conditions it lowers it way down to around 3000rpm and can vary it.

What's a little annoying is that it means I have to edit the upper threshold in several places in the code. (because it resets the rev limit RAM back up to 6700rpm in several places)

eg one of the first jobs the ECU does is set the rev limit to the default at 6700rpm in the RAM.

I'll do a version that sets the upper setting to 5000rpm that we can try on Sunday.

OlberJ

06-07-2007, 10:41

Just a thought, where do you get the signal for the revs from?

I know we have had lots of problems with the indicated rpm on the clocks being out by a fair bit.

Or has this been completely cured on the mk2?

Marksman

06-07-2007, 10:54

JMR_AW11

06-07-2007, 12:02

That's a different issue Ollie. The rpm signal is read by the rev counter and multiplied by the number of cylinders. A 4 pot counter (from either a MK1 or 2) is therfore rather a long way off! Cured in the MK2 by swapping a the guts of the camry rev counter into the MK2 dash, but as far as I'm aware it won't fit into the MK1. Lodge paid a specialist company to modify his MK1 unit and this I believe worked well but was rather pricy. Just maybe this new ECU code could sample down the existing signal to suit our existing counters?

Owen.

I don't actually know how the rev counter works on the dash.

I did read somewhere on some Toyotas it takes a DC signal (ramps up linearly with increasing rpm) from the ignitor unit and this controls the rev counter directly.

If so it would be really easy to make a level shift circuit. It could be done with a simple op amp IC and a few resistors. This could be made on veroboard for about £2.

I get the rpm signal direct from the ECU micro in digital format.

JMR_AW11

08-07-2007, 15:05

Steviek drove down today to test out my reprog board in a 3VZ-FE ECU.

It works!

We did quite a few miles running standard code and he said the car ran just as standard then I uploaded a version of ECU code via the laptop with a 5100rpm rev limiter and that tested out great with the rev limit showing at just over 5100rpm on the rev counter. (the new modded ECU code gets uploaded simply using a laptop sat in the passenger seat via RS-232)

So this all means there is complete control over the factory mapping and stuff like the rev limiter and ACIS etc.

I was a bit worried that there might have been issues with the auto section of the ECU but it all ran great.

We also tested an OBD1 data cable (laptop to check engine connector) and that worked OK although the EFI readout was wrong and the 02 sensor seemed to be switching at a different voltage threshold than I expected.

The rpm, tps, ign, iscV, AFM, IDL, STA and closed loop indicators all worked as expected.

We also tried out the factory datalogger interface and that worked great with high speed data fed to the laptop for all kinds of stuff.

I forgot to test a little LCD datalogger display I made for the dash but that can wait for another day...

BTW, the V6 sounds really nice, especially when it is revved.:thumbsup:

biteme

08-07-2007, 15:36

So what's the next steps then mate? Glad it all went well though mate, but I never had a doubt! :)

JMR_AW11

08-07-2007, 15:56

So what's the next steps then mate? Glad it all went well though mate, but I never had a doubt! :)

There's some mechanical issues to overcome

My board raises the height of the ECU so I need to provide an alternative ECU lid.

I've had a spacer drawn and priced up for a 3SGTE ECU and it was expensive even in volume. That solved the height problem by using the existing lid on a metal spacer.

Also, I need to redo the reprog PCB physically so it will fit the V6 ECU better as it has to withstand lots of shock and vibration over many miles.

The current PCB is just bodged in using an adaptor and some tape. Not great.

But now I know the board roadtests OK in a 3VZ-FE ECU I can start looking at a better PCB design that uses the existing fastener points in the ECU to give a really strong installation.

steviek

08-07-2007, 16:14

JMR_AW11

08-07-2007, 16:24

hi m8
was great to meet you and it worked well no probs at all and tks for the tour threw the country roads it wa gr8 to wind it up on the country roads and realy test my beast and wow it did perform aswell even better than i expected, its certainly handles the twist bits very well

Thanks for driving down to help with this project Steve.

It was a bit of a relief when it started and ran OK. I did test it a lot on the virtual MR2 jig beforehand and that seems to mimic a real test drive quite well.

Thanks again!

steviek

08-07-2007, 17:45

your welcome

JMR_AW11

08-07-2007, 19:47

your welcome

Hey Steve I just looked on the datalog laptop and I forgot I turned on the data recorder on one of the journeys.

I think it's one of the return journeys. (back from that 'car park' :driving: )

I'll try and post up the datafile and a program that allows playback.

You can see how keen this ECU is to stay in closed loop. (I could already see this in the ROM code)

It's obvious when it's in closed loop on the data because you can see the EFI trace toggling in response to the o2 sensor on the playback.

On some parts of the journey it stays in closed loop even with a fair bit of throttle and 4000-5000rpm so this must be costing power.

If it's holding the EFI AFR at 14.7:1 then I wonder how much potential there is if the closed loop was disabled sooner and the car was mapped for 11:1 AFR.

Does anyone know if there is a simple frig factor to guesstimate how much % power is sacrificed if you stay in closed loop vs ideal AFR for power?

Also the EFI trace shows little or no throttle enrichment when the throttle is pressed sharply so I would guess there is room to tweak this in the code to crisp up the throttle a little more.

(although it seemed to go pretty well anyway! The V6 sounds fantastic)

biteme

08-07-2007, 21:08

well i don't think it's too much of a problem to throw it on the rollers and knock down the afr a bit? I'd contribute to see what the costs in power are on this lovely block. Roll on 250bhp heh

loadswine

08-07-2007, 21:24

250 na horses, yes please!

steviek

09-07-2007, 06:54

yuppers would love 250 in a normal v6 na that will be something to see

a little story from yesterday we stopped in a pub carpark so jeremy could do a little twiddling it was empty so we thought it was shut, but did notice a woman just walking around.So we sat there 4 ten mins or so .Then i reversed and this woman said next time when u use the pub car park us the pub oooppps she wernt happy lol

biteme

09-07-2007, 07:46

I'd have just blown her a kiss and driven off mate :) But, if there's anything I can do to help this along ... just shout. I should have the V6 in the Spider in about 6-8 weeks so I can happily come down every weekend to help with running/tuning/whatever.

Jaemus

09-07-2007, 10:37

well then!

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G
4. OohMatron
5. Roseward
6. Wombat
7. Matt (splintermcinnes)
8. OlberJ
9. lodgeman
10. PeteC
11. steviek
12. locogeoff
13. Lee
14. chris99 - (bloody hell 14th again )
15. Fizzy
16. Jinja
17.whoozy
18. foxy-stoat
19. Portgordon
20. Jaemus

fantastic news! cant wait to see what kind of enhancements can be made!

Vicfr2

09-07-2007, 10:59

well then!

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G
4. OohMatron
5. Roseward
6. Wombat
7. Matt (splintermcinnes)
8. OlberJ
9. lodgeman
10. PeteC
11. steviek
12. locogeoff
13. Lee
14. chris99 - (bloody hell 14th again )
15. Fizzy
16. Jinja
17.whoozy
18. foxy-stoat
19. Portgordon
20. Jaemus
21. Vic

fantastic news! cant wait to see what kind of enhancements can be made!

biteme

09-07-2007, 11:17

Brilliant support lads.

loadswine

09-07-2007, 12:35

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G
4. OohMatron
5. Roseward
6. Wombat
7. Matt (splintermcinnes)
8. OlberJ
9. lodgeman
10. PeteC
11. steviek
12. locogeoff
13. Lee
14. chris99 - (bloody hell 14th again )
15. Fizzy
16. Jinja
17.whoozy
18. foxy-stoat
19. Portgordon
20. Jaemus
21. Vicfr2
22. Loadswine

This looks very promising, I'm sure its going to be a "must have" with your V6.:thumbsup:

biteme

09-07-2007, 13:18

It's going to be going on my 3VZ in the Spider. No doubt about that!

Fizzy

09-07-2007, 13:58

Hmm... reading up on the AFR issue...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-fuel_ratio

....and thought it odd that it specifically mentions 14.7:1 afr as being normal/ideal, which is thought to be limiting the 3vz? Just curious but how does the ideal 11:1 or so come about - the article mentions that power can be lost varying either richer or leaner from this level.

Also mentions that this would alter lamda readings from 1.0 - how would that effect the car for mot's and the like?

Don't mind me - just curious... and a little bored at work. :P

edit: ok, so reading previous comments it sounds like it tries keeping to 14.7:1 when not being pushed, when cruising or idleing.... but goes open loop when pushed hard/high revs which goes nearer the 11:1 afr for more power?

Paul Woods

09-07-2007, 18:32

indeed fizzy,the 3vz is in closed loop far too much by the look of it,we need it to switch to its internal maps quicker and run from those for optimal performance.

Outstanding support lads as johnny says,we arent too far away from needing to bung jeremy some developement money,looking at roughly a tenner each at this stage so he can buy much needed assembly parts :thumbsup:

msherry21

09-07-2007, 18:42

wardie

09-07-2007, 18:59

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G
4. OohMatron
5. Roseward
6. Wombat
7. Matt (splintermcinnes)
8. OlberJ
9. lodgeman
10. PeteC
11. steviek
12. locogeoff
13. Lee
14. chris99 - (bloody hell 14th again )
15. Fizzy
16. Jinja
17.whoozy
18. foxy-stoat
19. Portgordon
20. Jaemus
21. Vicfr2
22. Loadswine
23. Msherry21
24. Wardie..

Shugsta

09-07-2007, 19:48

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G
4. OohMatron
5. Roseward
6. Wombat
7. Matt (splintermcinnes)
8. OlberJ
9. lodgeman
10. PeteC
11. steviek
12. locogeoff
13. Lee
14. chris99 - (bloody hell 14th again )
15. Fizzy
16. Jinja
17.whoozy
18. foxy-stoat
19. Portgordon
20. Jaemus
21. Vicfr2
22. Loadswine
23. Msherry21
24. Wardie..
25. Shugsta

biteme

09-07-2007, 22:17

Just say when, Jeremy, and my money will be winging it's way to you faster than you can say "Ice pop up the arse"

roseward

09-07-2007, 22:24

Can we paypal this ?

mr2aw11turbo

10-07-2007, 18:49

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G
4. OohMatron
5. Roseward
6. Wombat
7. Matt (splintermcinnes)
8. OlberJ
9. lodgeman
10. PeteC
11. steviek
12. locogeoff
13. Lee
14. chris99 - (bloody hell 14th again )
15. Fizzy
16. Jinja
17.whoozy
18. foxy-stoat
19. Portgordon
20. Jaemus
21. Vicfr2
22. Loadswine
23. Msherry21
24. Wardie..
25. Shugsta
26. Mr2aw11turbo

Jiff Lemon

10-07-2007, 19:34

Now I'm not one to complain, but I'm seeing people on this list that ain't got a V6 swapped into their car, which leads to suspect either

a) There's a LOT of people planning V6 swaps

b) We've just got a generous lot of members

Or

c) we're actually in communist Russia, people have seen a list and are simply joining the queue and hoping it's all good when they get to the front! :D

MRV6

10-07-2007, 19:55

1. Paul woods
2. Jiff Lemon
3. Johnny G
4. OohMatron
5. Roseward
6. Wombat
7. Matt (splintermcinnes)
8. OlberJ
9. lodgeman
10. PeteC
11. steviek
12. locogeoff
13. Lee
14. chris99 - (bloody hell 14th again )
15. Fizzy
16. Jinja
17.whoozy
18. foxy-stoat
19. Portgordon
20. Jaemus
21. Vicfr2
22. Loadswine
23. Msherry21
24. Wardie..
25. Shugsta
26. Mr2aw11turbo
27. MRV6

Do you fancy having go at a 1mz OBDII ecu mate I have a spare non theft one you can have to play with.

JMR_AW11

10-07-2007, 20:13

Do you fancy having go at a 1mz OBDII ecu mate I have a spare non theft one you can have to play with.

I would like to see it but I really need to focus on current projects.

I've already got a queue of ECUs too look at after the V6.

I need to redo the PCB artwork to suit the 3VZ-FE V6 ECU so it fits well.

Then when that is done it would be nice to have donations towards the manuf cost of getting a few proper PCBs made so the product looks the business.

I'm still concerned about the spacer to raise the ECU height. I'd really like it to look decent quality and this may affect the price of a modded ECU.

It might mean a whole new ECU lid is needed.

MRV6

10-07-2007, 20:18

Hey mate you keep up the good work with the 3vz's. I'm just collecting parts at the moment and the ecu will be the final piece of the jigsaw. If you could just have a look at it some time, drop me a line and I'll post it on down to you. I was just wondering if you could do anything with a OBDII unit?

Shugsta

11-07-2007, 00:22

Paul Woods

11-07-2007, 06:51

lol @ jiff ! reminds me of that line from the commitments where the young lad is queueing up for the band auditions.....

"can you play an instrument?"
"i used to play the recorder at school....."
"so what are you doing here?????"
"well i saw everyone queued up and i taught ye were sellin drugs!"

lol

biteme

11-07-2007, 10:31

except this time, jesus christ is on a toyota and not on a fuckin Suzuki!

JMR_AW11

11-07-2007, 23:11

Here's a link to the data viewer program bundled with the data file we took on one short test drive on Sunday.

http://www.jmrhzu.btinternet.co.uk/mr2_v6/

Can you let me know if it installs OK or if it cries out for missing files etc.

Once the software runs, the data file can be loaded with the green load file button. The file is datav6.mr2

It's a huge file and takes a few seconds to load. Once loaded you use the mouse on the trace slider to navigate through the journey.

Also note you can use the mouse to click on the traces.

The green trace is the EFI injector pulse duration in microseconds and you can clearly see when the ECU goes in closed loop because you get the jagged sawtooth pattern on the trace as the ECU hunts either side of 14.7:1

It's quite surprising how far it jumps each side i.e. the sawtooth is quite deep. A good place to see this is at approx datasample 86000 (out of 166000) on the trace slider, or 360 seconds into the journey.

The intake air temp seems a bit higher than I expected but I think that is due to the cone filter in the engine bay.

Also the coolant temp creeps up during idle. I noticed this on the 3SGTE the other week too. The mk1 MR2 keeps the 4A-GE coolant temp really rock solid but I guess it's not so easy to keep cool on a big mid mounted engine with nearly twice the power.

Because there was no speed sensor connection there is no mph or mpg trace on the readout. Note also that the AFM reads bacwards on this ECU. A lower AFM reading means more airflow.
Also I forgot to include the ACIS data on the logging but this could easily be added for a future test run.

This logged journey was a quick drive up a narrow twisty country lane so there aren't any places where the car was driven hard but you can see how useful this logging can be.

Don't forget to use the mouse to click on the traces for data! There is an accurate timer to 0.1 second and this could be used for measuring in gear acceleration with a couple of mouse clicks.

roseward

11-07-2007, 23:47

Missing mscht20.ocx & comct232.ocx both are available as free downloads from http://www.ocxdump.com/download-ocx-files.php/ocxfiles/M/mschrt20.ocx/download.html
you can register them manually at a command prompt by doing -->> regsvr32 <<downloaded ocx filename>>

Then it will work :)

p.s. and ideally these files should sit in the c:\windows\system32 folder/directory

jimi

11-07-2007, 23:50

Got this error when trying to run the program after installation

Component 'mschrt20.ocx' or one of its dependencies not correctly registered: a file is missing or invalid

Got it working now downloaded the ocx files and put them in the Flashecu directory and it works fine :thumbsup:

JMR_AW11

12-07-2007, 00:07

Thanks for the info on the missing files.

I've uploaded a new install file with those files included.

biteme

12-07-2007, 08:19

JMR_AW11

12-07-2007, 12:30

Man that saw tooth is quite deep!

If this AFM reads "backwards" then it's only going to be possible to transplant an AFM (for example, the 7MGTE they talk about) to this engine if it works in the same way, i.e. backwards.

Otherwise it's a no can do.

Need to figure out if the 7MGTE AFM is 5v to 0v, or, 0v to 5V. Hmm!

I've got a 7MGTE ECU at home (1990?) and I could probably find out the AFM signal direction by looking at the ROM code. I dumped out the maps etc a year or two ago.

(my board would work in this old ECU too BTW)

biteme

12-07-2007, 13:36

I think Paul Woods would be happy to hear about this!

roseward

12-07-2007, 14:06

Can the signal not be inverted ???

biteme

12-07-2007, 14:15

If that were the case, I'd rather pay the man the money to run as a MAP system then, rather than AFM!

but that's just me! lol

wardie

12-07-2007, 14:34

i have the program open but no green load button, infact nothing at all.. just a blank page...help... i had to download comct232 and comctl32 and register but still nothing..

JMR_AW11

12-07-2007, 19:40

i have the program open but no green load button, infact nothing at all.. just a blank page...help... i had to download comct232 and comctl32 and register but still nothing..

What spec PC are you running? What operating system?

It really needs a 500MHz+ processor and plenty of RAM.

Also, I'd advise you to get the missing files from me rather than the net because the versions you have may be incompatible.

wardie

12-07-2007, 19:53

yeah its a fast enough lap top..

dont understand it.. have u got the files to download, im gonna try it again..

JMR_AW11

12-07-2007, 21:11

yeah its a fast enough lap top..

dont understand it.. have u got the files to download, im gonna try it again..

I've uploaded a new version to the same link.

The trouble is you have registered the other files to your PC and I don't know if it will now ignore my newly added files in the install.

I really wanted to keep all the active x files in the same install folder to make it easier to manage until I got the install right for everyone.

roseward

12-07-2007, 21:33

regsvr32 -u <<downloaded ocx file including path>> to unregister

Apologies if i've inadvertently ballsed it up for you !

JMR_AW11

12-07-2007, 22:02

regsvr32 -u <<downloaded ocx file including path>> to unregister

Apologies if i've inadvertently ballsed it up for you !
lol

No problem...

I agree the right place for these files is to be registered properly as you suggested

I'm not really much of an expert with Windows and I was trying to be cautious by keeping the files in a local folder.

jimi

12-07-2007, 22:20

It works fine for me (Win98SE) keeping them in the local folder, without registering them

GaryA

12-07-2007, 22:22

Can i just ask what the EFI trace is ? being a bit of a numpty at stuff like this i so wish i had picked CSE electronics over auto engineering :doh: works ok on vista

roseward

12-07-2007, 22:26

Local folders ok cos that's were it'll look if it can't find them. It's only if you get other applications trying to use the same ocx's that you could possibly get problems. I would always recommend therefore registering them. lol

wardie

27-07-2007, 21:02

hows this all coming along, any progress mate? need any contributions yet..

JMR_AW11

30-07-2007, 20:06

hows this all coming along, any progress mate? need any contributions yet..

No real progress since Steve's roadtest as I had to disconnect the ECU from my test setup to plug it into the car for testing.

I don't have any ECU loom plugs and it takes ages to rewire the ECU back up again.

At the moment the only ECU I have that I can easily wire in is a rev1 3SGTE ECU. It still has all the direct soldered wires feeding to it.

I've now written the revised ECU firmware to allow real time tuning with the engine running and this seems to work fine on the rev1 ECU.

So my next roadtest will be for a rev1 3SGTE ECU but possibly on a rolling road because the real time tuning seems to be working well. I wasn't going to produce ECU code for real time tuning for a while but the weather here near Tewkesbury has been awful so I spent a day or two writing the code whilst surrounded by flooded roads.

The local RR has kindly offered me some free time (again) on their RR so I'll try and organise the next test to be a real RR remapping session on someone's car. The RR is about half a mile from my house so it's pretty handy!

JMR_AW11

30-07-2007, 20:16

Can i just ask what the EFI trace is ? being a bit of a numpty at stuff like this i so wish i had picked CSE electronics over auto engineering :doh: works ok on vista

Whoops, sorry I missed your question...

The green EFI trace shows the fuel injector activity or 'duration'

It shows how long the injectors are held on for (i.e. how long they squirt fuel for as the engine goes through a cycle)

A typical injector 'on' time might be 5000us (= 0.005 seconds or 5 milliseconds) That's how long the injectors squirt each shot of fuel for.
This is reflected in the green EFI trace. The bigger the EFI number, the more fuel is being injected, because the injector is held on for longer each cycle.

Because the fuel pressure regulator keeps the pressure constant across the injector (i.e. constant between the fuel rail and the intake manifold) it means you know how much fuel is being injected at any one time. This is because the injectors are rated at a known delivery (eg rev1 3SGTE injectors are 440cc/min I believe) so you can calculate how much fuel is being sent to the engine.

Also if you compute this with the engine speed in rpm you can calculate how many of these measured shots of fuel get delivered in an hour.

If you know the vehicle speed you can then calculate miles per gallon as you drive the car.

This can then be displayed on a laptop as an economy guage.

biteme

17-08-2007, 22:29

Any progress?

loadswine

18-08-2007, 00:25

Yes, I'm almost ready for one of these, looking forward to the release of the finished item! Should be brill!

biteme

18-08-2007, 00:29

Aye, the funds are there thanks mainly to the TB spirit... the cars are here thanks to Woodsport, the ECU's will hopefully be here soon thanks to Jeremy.

Roll on ...

loadswine

19-08-2007, 20:12

Jeremy, you've probably read the gearbox thread where some of the guys have unusual rev counter readings after their v6 swaps. Could this over reading on the tachos, even after altering the pulse circuitry from 6 to 4 cylinder operation, be down to something in the stock ecu to do with the change from auto to manual transmission? If so, will the new ecu fix that anomally do you think? Or am I way off base and talking out of my hat? lol

I have been known to do that!!

Kalergie

28-08-2007, 17:09

Hi Guys!

Ive been reading this thread since its beginning and I am pretty interested as well. Havent got my swap done so far, however, I love to read about ppl improving and developing things for the V6 community. To be honest, I have no clue about ECUs and so on....therefore, I am not sure if I got everything right. Will this ECU mod be mappable for anybody? Or do I need a specialist for the job. And will this ECU be beneficial for NA V6 or merely for the forced induction guys?

Thanks for answers. As I said, Im very interested. I plan to go the NA way and would love to support the developing guys with some dosh if needed?!

Pascal

Marksman

28-08-2007, 17:23

Good for the NA :thumbsup: Mapable by anybody? Yes, but only by someone who has specialist knowledge of what to map so 50/50 on that question!

Happy V6-ing,

Owen.

Kalergie

28-08-2007, 19:50

Thanks for the info, mate. Im looking forward to my swap like skinny women to a boobjob! Would you say, I will gain benefits by upgrading the fuel system (fuel injectors)

Cheers

Pascal

Marksman

28-08-2007, 19:53

No worries. Not sure on the injectors to be honest (I'm a turbo boy) but if not doing anything else to the engine (apart from the ECU of course) then I'd image the injectors are OK as they are. I'll step aside now and let those in the know shoot me down in flames :slap:

All the best with your swap,

Owen.

steviek

29-08-2007, 07:43

jeremy if you need my car for testing again thats no problem i am free lol

loadswine

14-09-2007, 20:16

Jeremy, how are you getting on with the development? Just shout when you need funds for this, I reckon all will pitch in as necessary.
This could really top off the 3vz package.:thumbsup:

biteme

14-09-2007, 20:26

Just checked, Jeremy's not logged in since the 7/9/07

loadswine

14-09-2007, 20:31

Okay, lets all put our hands on the screens and will him to log on, a la Uri Geller.
It would be fantastic to have these up and running though.

biteme

14-09-2007, 20:33

I know, from what I hear, it's not far from being complete as he's had a successful test.

loadswine

14-09-2007, 20:54

Even better, we'll look forward to them coming up then.
That will be uber cool.:hyper:

biteme

14-09-2007, 21:00

Yep, the test was yonks ago. I think it was StevieK... it's in this thread somewhere though

loadswine

14-09-2007, 21:12

Yes it was, its mentioned at the top of this page, but I thought more testing was required. I thought Jeremy needed some connector plugs as well to speed things up on the testing. I could be wrong though, I often am. lol

wardie

28-09-2007, 22:56

is this little project stalling a bit? does anyoneknow whats going on?

biteme

28-09-2007, 23:03

I think Jeremy is under the patio somewhere ...

loadswine

28-09-2007, 23:11

I left him a PM on imoc, but haven't heard anything, mind you , he wouldn't know who the hell I was probably. lol
Oh well, back to excavating the garden then!!

biteme

28-09-2007, 23:12

I left him a PM on imoc, but haven't heard anything, mind you , he wouldn't know who the hell I was probably. lol
Oh well, back to excavating the garden then!!

I've wondered myself actually ... ;)

loadswine

28-09-2007, 23:18

Well I don't know who I am either!:shrug:

Murf

28-09-2007, 23:51

I think Jeremy is under the patio somewhere ...

Real Scouse life echoes Brookie ;)

biteme

28-09-2007, 23:57

indeed :D

Marksman

29-09-2007, 05:19

Maybe he and Sam have eloped and are off making the the Volvic Enemy ECU?

Owen.

loadswine

27-10-2007, 10:19

weegaz22

27-10-2007, 11:19

imoc is also looking for him as he hasnt logged on over there in a while, or answering PM's every one wants to know whats happening with the turbo remappable ecu's

superchargedsam

27-10-2007, 14:48

has no one got his phone number as that would be a better route for contact!

AlunJ

27-10-2007, 16:23

I wonder if we'll ever hear any more on these, they sounded ideal, a cheap premapped fix. Looks like we'll have to search for an alternative if nothing turns up.
How does a preconfigured mappable sound? Built and housed in the stock ECU casing and setup for plug and play with the stock harness, for the 3vz and the 3s? If you guys can hang on a couple of months there may well be something else in the pipework ;)

Marksman

27-10-2007, 16:44

That sounds rather good...

Owen.

loadswine

27-10-2007, 16:48

Totally agree, sounds fantastic. Bring it on Alun.:thumbsup:

Fizzy

27-10-2007, 18:47

How does a preconfigured mappable sound? Built and housed in the stock ECU casing and setup for plug and play with the stock harness, for the 3vz and the 3s? If you guys can hang on a couple of months there may well be something else in the pipework ;)

It sounds very intriguing.... want a local tester? ;)

welsha

27-10-2007, 21:21

I'm guessing I'm not lucky enough for this ecu to work on rev3 motors?

snowtigger

28-10-2007, 10:27

defoe interested in that one but as the great saying goes u pays youre money you gets your choice would need to know price in other words 400 to 600 hmmm any more and i think i would go hydra or megasquirt or pectel plug and play sound good to me as im alazy sod at the best of times.

biteme

28-10-2007, 12:47

I wonder if we'll ever hear any more on these, they sounded ideal, a cheap premapped fix. Looks like we'll have to search for an alternative if nothing turns up. I suspect there are alternatives, but bet they won't be as simple and cheap as this looked to be.
I think Johnny was looking into something for the NA folks also.

I am Nigel, been speaking to Paul about potentially gettin a Meqasquirt solution for the budget approach - and then having the Hydra for the more higher end builds - or for those "that just want it" lol.

Shouldn't be THAT hard to get the MS working with the 3VZ/1MZ/5VZ. It's mainly to do with the crank trigger wheel, making a small modification to it.

The hardest bit will be the harnesses cheap and neatly, then it's a case of mapping it and then building/shipping the units out. I've got the Hydra off the ground now, so now it's time to expand all that market - and open the MSquirt.

If Alan is looking at though, then it'll be quicker for him - as he's got the experience - I can just offer to help wherever I can :thumbsup: