View Full Version : Aero mods for penelope
work has started on the Areo package for penelope :jump:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/02/8.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/02/9.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/02/10.jpg
as you can see in the pic below we have left part of the bonet brace in place
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/02/11.jpg
this pic shows where we are going to cut out on the bulkhead
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/02/12.jpg
and no i dont need to move the battery either :thumbsup:
Marksman
03-02-2007, 17:33
Very nice!
Will be watching this closely...
Well done Stu,
Owen.
Gary Symons
03-02-2007, 17:33
Nice job :thumbsup:. does this let you keep the rad in the same place? And will the battery still fit?
Good work so far Stu. Every time i see Penelope i like the color more and more. Am i weird? Now it looks very nice;)
*checking my gaydar for errors, it`s beeping*
Marksman
03-02-2007, 17:40
You could have a little pipe on the end of that vent that refills your washer bottle with rainwater...
O.S.
Nice job :thumbsup:. does this let you keep the rad in the same place? And will the battery still fit?
yeah the battery still fits,not going to move the rad but when i can afford it i want a nice alloy rad with some sexy new fans.
Paul Woods
03-02-2007, 17:50
cracking bonnet mods stu,i do like that,very elise but in a mk1 kinda way :thumbsup:
very nice..like the venturi sketch lol..
i got as far as cutting holes in my frunk but never got round to modding the hood...
cant wait to see this completed..:thumbsup:
what are you gonna do for drainage..hole in bottom of frunk or a lip under the hood vents?
Sweet work... nice one stu
Jiff Lemon
03-02-2007, 18:12
what are you gonna do for drainage..hole in bottom of frunk or a lip under the hood vents?
I'd suggest a Lip on the frunk cut that sits under the bonnet vent.
Damn funky mod stu, Now tell us why the door is off........
Putting wings on it to aid downforce?
Marksman
03-02-2007, 18:15
Now tell us why the door is off........
Either he's doing some lightweight ones, he's bent it, or they're off being sprayed red to match the new bonnet and frunk...
Owen.
top notch work stu, look forward to progress :mrgreen:
millentubby
04-02-2007, 04:55
Up until now I was really quite sceptical about the benefits of this kind of mod....but seeing where you intend to cut the frunk bulkhead.....really gives you an idea of how much airflow will be coming through :cool:
Have you thought about a flat under-belly aero tray? Is on my 'to investigate' list.
wangan_x
04-02-2007, 06:09
this will also help alleviate the lift off issue... car to build one for me stu?
Have a look at Driftin's thread Col, he did that. I'm too lazy to post the link though so you'll have to search...
hi guys,glad you like the frunk lid lol it will look better with some pink paint on:gay:
sorry to be boring but the doors off to do little bit of cosmetic stuff (penelope nearly went rusty!!! lol )
the under tray thing is a cool idea and i saw loads of cars with this done at the autosport show ,BUT i would have thought you have got to be carefull as not to stop the air flow to the engine,but this on my list of things to do.
i do like the idea of moving the fuel tank and using the tunnel for air flow like on the Boarder MR2's
also how dooes the rear spoiler effect the car what sort of shape or size would you need to have? do you need one at all ?
when i saw this in the bodyshop the other week i did consider how many poor dogs and cats were going to get sucked up through that hole ha ha
will look a bit mental to be honest but as said with the right fans and rad it will look very smart .... are you putting pink neons in there for effect lmfao ;)
Rear wing/spoiler will create downforce and hence drag Stu, kinda depends on your intended usage, ie a drag strip monster, an allrounder etc.
Frunk ideas a peach though, itll direct air up and over instead of creating lift... :)
the cars more an all rounder,im taking it to the ring in a april (and its all booked so no going back) but that also means some high speed blats though germany,
when i get around to sorting the final drive out will i need that down force?
when i saw this in the bodyshop the other week i did consider how many poor dogs and cats were going to get sucked up through that hole ha ha
will look a bit mental to be honest but as said with the right fans and rad it will look very smart .... are you putting pink neons in there for effect lmfao ;)
ha ha had to slap myself then did think about neons for a second :rofl:
millentubby
04-02-2007, 14:07
the stock spoiler is surprisingly ineffective - can't find the wind-tunnel pics but it's too close to the rear butresses and doesn't get enough air flow.
Doing the plumley mod will help out in this respect.
You after reducing drag/increasing downforce or just making it aerodynamically.....nicer?
Plumley mod? I would have thought toyota originally would have done an windtunnel to ensure the spoiler getting enough airflow to create god downforce. Do you know what happens? Does it pass above, or is the angles just wrong?
millentubby
04-02-2007, 16:46
The wing just sits in dead air. Gutted that I lost that pic.
*goes for an e-rummage*
Jiff Lemon
04-02-2007, 18:09
Flat bottom is also on my list of things to investigate. Hate the way the front gets light over 120 mph.
Stu, before you slap a load of pink on there, make sure either:
A) Your body man has all the dimensions of the vent so he can make me one.
or
B) get the damn think copied in fibreglass - there's a TB shop now you know? :D
Flat bottom is also on my list of things to investigate. Hate the way the front gets light over 120 mph.
Stu, before you slap a load of pink on there, make sure either:
A) Your body man has all the dimensions of the vent so he can make me one.
or
B) get the damn think copied in fibreglass - there's a TB shop now you know? :D
the body shop man i use is very good he will be able to make another no problems.
would have got it copied in fibreglass but it should be sprayed buy now.
i could get another made to use as a mould ?
superchargedsam
04-02-2007, 19:01
Stu looking good fella ! as for rear wing I will have a look as do have the aerodrawings soemwhere for it but needs to be high with steep rake to make a difference, also front under bulkhead needs flow sorting ! And sorry to be a pooper on the bonnet as looks good but all the aerodrawings for this mod I have seen actually push the air around the windscreen and not over it which it will do if straight ! My understanding is if its directed over the top it will create lift in this area therefore needs to be pushed around the windscreen to avoid the lift issue. I have done aerodynamics and fluid flow at Uni but was a long long time ago and this issue still confuses me but from all drawings I have seen it does point towards air up and around and not up and over ! perhaps JB can throw more light on this wioth some aero engineering ! Stu and all dont want you to think I am poo pooing the idea I am just saying what I have seen from proper testing drawings on the MK1 ! as for the bilge board underneath its a must as it will smooth airflow in this area and it doesnt need to be entire length of car so you can still keep a certain amount of flow to the bay, the board will need a 45 degree lip at the front which also goes over the bulkhead point at the front which also helps !
Will try very very hard to find the drawings and have a look, unbfortunatly I cant publish them on here as the person that gavce them to me spent ALOT of money getting the tests done quite a while ago but I am sure I can put into words what it says on them as they are very detailed about what needs doing to a mk1 to make it stick to the road better !
superchargedsam
04-02-2007, 19:06
If you look at the bonnet on the elise you will see the design of the scoops will move the air up and around the windscreen rather than directing it totally over the top !
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LOTUS-ELISE-1999-SILVER-BELL-COLVILL-SUPER-160_W0QQitemZ270085410324QQihZ017QQcategoryZ43114Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I still think the mods you have had done stu will make an effect but am worried slightly there could indeed be an issue with lift created by them ! Am sure Malc or JB could shed some light on it though ! Just think the flow needs to be spread more evenly over the windscreen than blasting it directly IYSWIM !
sam i can see where your coming from with this and i'll have to see how much differance this makes,we tried to keep to the lines off the mk1 rather than copying any thing else like the elise,if you look the vents are slightly angled to keep in with the shape of the frunk lid.
but also don't the gt40 and ultima have the air going straight over the windscreen?
http://www.premierkitcars.com/pics/ultima1.jpg
although the windscreen is curved
http://ohv.prettyblack.jp/GT40.jpg
like i said also make another if this ones not right.
anyone want come out with me when i try and see how stable it is over 150mph lol
also on a another note has anyone looked at the mk1s at that meet in japan in the mr2 only mag,theres a few frunk mods there and i spotted a engine cover like podge has on his mk1,also some dodgy mods as well lol (pages 10-13 issue 3)
superchargedsam
04-02-2007, 19:55
Stu yup agree with ya and also looked at the noble and that looks straight as well so might indeed work well and cant wait to see the results as anything that stops the scary arse front end lightness is good in my books !
superchargedsam
04-02-2007, 19:57
Yup saw that ! some wierd arse looking mods on there for sure ! on the note of the engine cover thats going for moulding in a few weeks all being well along with the styleauto kit so perhaps a front end of that kit might also help you stu as that will force more air under the car and through your bonnet mod thats for sure as has a very wide flat front lip !
Stu I think you should see a great benefit from this mod. Good on ya for actually doing it. I would like to see it if you wouldn't mind me visiting and of course we'll all be interested in the actual results. Wouldn't it be great to drive a mk1 where the front feels stuck down at speed!
Driftin_AW
04-02-2007, 23:29
Nice work, that's a bloody deep vent! I've been driving mine around a bit lately, and I've noticed a couple of things:
1 - it wont get up to temp unless it's idling, it's possible I got sold a thermostat that opens at too low temperature, I'll be buying a genuine toyota one
2 - you suck an awful lot of hot air through the hvac system, driving along the motorway it feels like I have the heater on (no ac) even when the temperature is turned right down.
haven't taken it up to speed to see how it feels yet, have some minor issues with needing a wheel alignment and possibly new tie rods in the front
Driftin_AW
04-02-2007, 23:33
oh yeah, although venting over the roof might no be ideal, i think going around the cockpit would be even worse because the wing mirrors are right in the way of the airflow and they cause significant amounts of drag and lift. If you're serious about downforce I'd look into one of those somewhat ricey T-wings for the rear, and maybe a large splitter for the front.
I don't know if a flat undertray would really have any benefit on a street driven mr2, it would stop negative effects from the stock floor, but you'll stuggle to make it a low pressure area due to all the air rushing under the car from the sides, and will be far too high to benefit from any ground effect IMO
Limeymk1
05-02-2007, 10:25
http://star.walagata.com/w/limeymk1/AirflowMk1.jpg
Everyone should have a copy of that pic!
Re. rear spoiler, it provides no downforce but does provide stability by moving the turbulent air further aft of the car. Tis the difference between an aero wing and a spoiler, aero = downforce, spoiler = relocates turbulence.
Case in point is the Audi TT, the little ducktail is not there to provide downforce. Due to the aero of the TT the point where the air running under the car meets the air going over the car was too close to the rear and the turbulence destabilised the rear. The duck tail moved this point further back and removed the problem that early TT's had of swapping ends at high speeds.
HTH
P.S on the second pic it shows how much drag you get from the mirrors. Rather a lot IMO.
Very interesting thread - especially as the bonnet mods are on my list for 'Phase 2' mods to my new track car;) This list includes front splitter and undertray ( got a book on race car aerodynamics which explains how these work together :thumbsup: ), bonnet vent, and a Plumley spoiler ( possibly with Gurney flap ). I was originally considering the bonnet mod mainly due to concerns regarding adequate cooling for the chargecooler as well as the engine rad.
Hadn't thought about the issue regarding over vs round airflow from the vents. IIRC later GT40s went to a split vent similar to that on the Elise, maybe for that reason.
How do you plan to deal with water ingress to the frunk i.e. keeping the electrics dry when driving at high speed in a rainstorm ?
Very interesting thread - especially as the bonnet mods are on my list for 'Phase 2' mods to my new track car;) This list includes front splitter and undertray ( got a book on race car aerodynamics which explains how these work together :thumbsup: ), bonnet vent, and a Plumley spoiler ( possibly with Gurney flap ). I was originally considering the bonnet mod mainly due to concerns regarding adequate cooling for the chargecooler as well as the engine rad.
Hadn't thought about the issue regarding over vs round airflow from the vents. IIRC later GT40s went to a split vent similar to that on the Elise, maybe for that reason.
How do you plan to deal with water ingress to the frunk i.e. keeping the electrics dry when driving at high speed in a rainstorm ?
the plan is to try and get the ducting air tight so to get best possible flow,but failing that i'll try not to use the car in the rain (won't happen always get caught out lol )
hmm the second pic is interesting..i wouldve expected to see some yellow smoke above the back of the car..though we dont know the air speed for either of those photos..im guessing average road speeds..around 40-50mph..
Jiff Lemon
08-02-2007, 10:58
It'd be interesting to find out what speeds those tunnel shots were at.
Failing that, its time to cover the passenger side of a two with bits of wool and simulate that second pic....
millentubby
08-02-2007, 11:09
That's the one Limey!!!!!!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/02/49.jpg
Check the bit in the yellow Circle - where does that go?! Seems to split - half goes over and half slaps into the frunk front bulkhead which will lift the front at speed - hopefully with your mod Stu you'd see that Red line going smoothly up the bonnet and round the windscreen :cool:
Also check out the blue circle - shows the air going under would benefit from some kind of undertray and diffuser at the back?
superchargedsam
08-02-2007, 11:18
Also check out the blue circle - shows the air going under would benefit from some kind of undertray and diffuser at the back?
Am looking at making a WRC style rear diffuser as part of a bodykit I am having made later this month for this very reason, only issue I see with this is the darned back box being where it is be we will see !!
theres also the Papal Hood vent too which does the same job but doesnt intrude into the frunk..:thumbsup:..bloody genious bit of design that one..!
superchargedsam
08-02-2007, 11:43
theres also the Papal Hood vent too which does the same job but doesnt intrude into the frunk..:thumbsup:..bloody genious bit of design that one..!
yup i likey that muchly !
wangan_x
08-02-2007, 12:17
theres also the Papal Hood vent too which does the same job but doesnt intrude into the frunk..:thumbsup:..bloody genious bit of design that one..!
i have heard of this before any pics or threads on how/what to do, and why doesn't intrude into the frunk?
Jiff Lemon
08-02-2007, 12:24
http://forums.twobrutal.com/showpost.php?p=32184&postcount=22
wangan_x
08-02-2007, 12:50
excellent now i just need a splitter to actually add DF to the front end
ok quick update ,took the car out last night before the snow was -4 so had to take it easy.
WOW is all i have to say, now when you boot it the car sits flat,the front does not lift at all!
also when traveling at speed the temp gauge drops a little (well quite a lot lol)
great stuff..it has to be said that front bulkhead is of very bad design..i rekon originaly 'yota were going to vent the rad over the top but conservatism got the better of them..oh and the need for storage space..
nice work stu..:thumbsup:
pistol pete
08-02-2007, 15:56
liking it lots :thumbsup:
millentubby
08-02-2007, 16:16
that Papal vent looks fantastic (both in aesthetic and function)!
Now on my to-do list!
http://upload.3sgtemr2.com/userfiles/feral4mr2mk1/feralpacking1.gif
Nice shorts feral! ;)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/02/50.jpg
http://upload.3sgtemr2.com/files/4/vented1.jpg
http://upload.3sgtemr2.com/files/4/vented2.jpg
http://upload.3sgtemr2.com/files/4/vented4.jpg
I am SO doing that!!!!
yeah the Papal vent almost looks like toyota put it there.i was going to go for it myself but then i thought nah go more extreme lol
msherry21
08-02-2007, 18:17
What about putting some canards on the sides of the nose cone, would this not make a considerable difference?
i rekon it would personally..its got high velocity flow on the sides of the nose..be interesting to see how that affected the flow down the side of the car as well..
and also doing what bill did and bringing the lower lip 'diffuser' on the front out to kick the airflow around the front wheels, it all helps..
just ahve to make sure the car doesnt look too fast and furious with aero bits everywhere..
Jiff Lemon
08-02-2007, 18:30
Stu, time to come to MK for some "wind tunnel" testing! I'll start cutting the ball of wool into 2 inch strands and I'm sure the sticky tape won't peel any paint off!
:thumbsup:
Driftin_AW
08-02-2007, 20:03
I think canards would have approximately 0 effect, as 4v6 says, it's all about surface area, which is why you can get such crazy downforce from a well designed undertray/diffuser, a small pressure difference over a very large surface area = lots of downforce. If the area is small, like with a canard, then you need a significantly larger surface area to see much downforce.
wangan_x
09-02-2007, 18:01
well you can set up canards to increase downforce... however in order for it to work you need additional aero mods, like splitters and vented fenderwells
the stock spoiler is surprisingly ineffective
I seem to remember that the rear spoiler is there to create an area of low pressure between the rear window and the end of the bootlid so that air will be drawn from under the car, up throught the engine bay and out the top, taking hot air from the engine bay with it and cooling the engine.
Great work though Stu, looks amazing!
Jiff Lemon
11-02-2007, 11:37
I recall reading that it was designed to aid stability from sidewinds.
Stu - I'm sure I read that in the MR2 book you've got.
I recall reading that it was designed to aid stability from sidewinds.
Stu - I'm sure I read that in the MR2 book you've got.
I'll have i look mate
:thumbsup:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/02/69.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/02/70.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/02/71.jpg
ooh not too shabby stu..job looks like a goodun'..
are you going to put a mesh thing down there at all..?
ooh not too shabby stu..job looks like a goodun'..
are you going to put a mesh thing down there at all..?
going to do somthing the vent has a flange on it for some mesh,but i may put the cinq rad for the charge cooler there (if i fit it)got a few ideas as to tidy it up a little.
would look better if the car wa clean to as its coverd in dust from the bodyshop.
omg yeah..its soooooo dusty..lol
looking really nice stu..
perfect place for second rad too..much more airflow under and over than could be had at the back..
Gary Symons
11-02-2007, 14:56
Looking good :thumbsup: Nice porker in the pics aswell
lodgeman
11-02-2007, 16:29
looks excellent stu!:thumbsup:
waste no time stu :poke2::) top drawer work
Marksman
11-02-2007, 20:49
Wow, that looks ripsnorting! :thumbsup:
Owen.
wangan_x
12-02-2007, 05:45
i defo want one of those... top notch
functional AND sexy..like pauls knickers..
millentubby
12-02-2007, 10:41
Just make sure it doesn't give you a yeast infection, Stu! (Like pauls knickers lol)
How exposed does this make the rest of the inside of the frunk? Is there going to be water-pooling issues leading to {whispers}Rust{whispers}
i should think providing rubber strip seal things are used there shouldnt be any significant quanitity of water getting in..
i would probably repaint the frunk and create a drain hole in the bottom as well though..just in case..
Paul Woods
12-02-2007, 17:30
now thats nice...i do like what you've done there stu,top drawer.......and thats where the sexy speedos are kept.
Hmm - would there be any mileage in changing the angle that the rad sits at. As standard it leans back, which I assume helps it discharge air downwards and out under the car. If you're venting the air up, you could lean it forwards instead - though the pain of altering the pipework for little or no gain probably wouldn't be worth it.
Interesting site here http://www.fasterthanjesus.net/sw11/r1.html
wangan_x
15-02-2007, 11:13
yah that is driftin AW's site
Anyone thought about the aerodynamics surrounding the vacuum that is the rear window / engine cover area?
superchargedsam
15-02-2007, 16:09
Anyone thought about the aerodynamics surrounding the vacuum that is the rear window / engine cover area?
we have all thought about it but nothing amazing has come up yet ! you got any ideas as be interesed in anything that can be done ! Would have to make sure it didnt cause any issues with the pull of air up through the bay mind !
pistol pete
15-02-2007, 18:21
looking good lot of work gone into that like said b4 drift styleee
gotta ask who's is the porsche ------- i want it
wangan_x
16-02-2007, 04:17
one thing i noticed the other night, and this is prolly more of a concern for me than lifting is it was windy and the car was all over the lane, is there anything we can do to alleviate this problem?
Driftin_AW
16-02-2007, 08:10
Interesting site here http://www.fasterthanjesus.net/sw11/r1.html
might just be a rumour, but I heard that the guy who did that is not only highly intelligent and a talented engineer, he's also good looking, charming and a great lover! :D
Driftin_AW
16-02-2007, 08:12
we have all thought about it but nothing amazing has come up yet ! you got any ideas as be interesed in anything that can be done ! Would have to make sure it didnt cause any issues with the pull of air up through the bay mind !
i'd love to do a big plexiglass rear that went all the way down from where the "toyota" visor normally sits, down the edge of the C pillars and onto the join between engine lid and bootlid. It would effect the evacuation of air from the enginebay, but that could be sorted with vents, louvres or similar.
might just be a rumour, but I heard that the guy who did that is not only highly intelligent and a talented engineer, he's also good looking, charming and a great lover! :D
I'd heard he was modest toorotflmao
Driftin_AW
16-02-2007, 08:37
I'd heard he was modest toorotflmao
hmm I think you might be thinking of someone else :P
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