PDA

View Full Version : is this possible?



cantfindausername
16-12-2006, 18:12
OK, I'm trying to get to the bottom of my clutch issue, the fact that it wont allow me to change gear.

So you know, the slave cylinder has been removed and replaced with a hydraulic release bearing.

So, I've got the gearbox off and there is a small pool of fluid around the adapter for the bleed pipe.

However, I have video proof that the bearing is being pushed out when the clutch pedal is pressed... see here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw0IHkt84CA

Ok, so on that video, you can see that the bearing is pushing out nicely, and is moving the entire clutch assembly.

We've also viewed the operation by removing the lower end plate so you can see the flywheel. This confirms that the whole lot is moving. The flywheel is pushed in quite alot when its pushed all the way.

The clutch spring fingers have a contact mark on them, so its definately been in contact at some point. Not sure if its a permanent contact bearing, or if this is from the pressure of it pressing during "normal" operation.

I'm going to remove the clutch and make sure that the plates slide nicely on the splines as this can cause a problem of them not moving freely and essentially caausing the problem I'm seeing.

I'm also going to make sure the friction plates aren't rusted or fused onto the pressure plates.

And also going to bleed the cylinder again after PFTEing all the joints to make sure they're holding. Then it will be minimal loss when putting it back together.

At first inspection though, the only problem looks like a small pool of fluid that is coming out past the adpater on the bleed line. And for the amount of fluid we've put through it ~10ltrs This is a minute fraction of a percentage to leak out. I know it still constitutes a leak, so it will obviously be addressed.

Still stumped. Wont be happy putting it back together without knowing what the problem was for 100%

Ok, on closer inspection, there is also a slight run from the inlet pipe to the bearing too. Could be a case of shit connectors as we had the same problem with the bleed nipple.

Sorry for the waffling

Ant

GaryA
16-12-2006, 18:55
Been looking at your video again , it's hard to make out but looks like the bearing moves a long way before it touches the clutch. All the cars i work on have these types of bearings and i think they are designed to stay up against the fingers of the clutch . Is it a sprung loaded the bearing? Still thinking your problem is either the bearing to far away from the clutch to start with or maybe a flywheel to pressure plate problem i've had brand new flywheels machined wrong so when you bolt the pressure plate up it's taken all the diaphragm movement up . It's a strange one to be sure

cantfindausername
16-12-2006, 19:20
well the clutch plates aint siezed looks like the bearing and/or adapter leakage is to blame.

It shouldn't be too far from the fingers as it just sits back aginst the rear of the bell housing.

I guess it could be a wrong machined flywheel or the wrong bearing, but the bearing is the same as AndyF has on his car that him and Dino Micouris fitted. They have pics of their install here - http://www.mr2mania.com/img-lib.php?14

I'm stumped. I really dont want to just make sure everything is tight and get it all back together to find it still isn't wotking.

I'd much rather find a proper problem that can be rectified.

GaryA
16-12-2006, 19:36
Fuck me thats one serious looking clutch :eek2: The only thing i would do before putting it back in would be to measure from the engine block to the fingers and the gearbox bellhousing to the release bearing and see how close they are other than that :eh: Good luck and hope it goes ok this time

cantfindausername
16-12-2006, 20:11
yeah its a proper clutch.. just a bitch of one also.

I've just managed to have the piston blow out and bring the seal with it.

Managed to get it all back together so I'm gonna give it another go with the pressure bleeder.

I'll get measuring also. I moved the plates so need to re align the dam thing to. Its all going to shit at the mo!

cantfindausername
16-12-2006, 21:46
ok just been thinking about this and doing some measurements against the figures that tilton quote on the technical drawing and the instalation instructions.

Links:
Installation instructions - http://www.tiltonracing.com/ins/98-725R.pdf
Technical drawing - http://www.tiltonracing.com/pdfs/725Rally2pl.pdf

Now on the technical drawing, it has a flywheel step of 0.097 - 0.100". Mine measures at 0.022". So that is crap for starters.

Now, on the installation instructions, in section B (Flywheel installation), it says there should be the same step Clutch Leg Mounting surface.

No wonder its permanetly engaged... the clearences are fucked. I've got an interference of .078" according to my maths.

Shorty
16-12-2006, 21:53
And i worry about doing a std or stage 1 clutch single plate. Shit, that is one nasty kit:icon_eek: Probably bites like hell once you get it right though:)

adamh
16-12-2006, 22:47
hello ant, what flywheel are you using? i can machine in step to spec and absoloute true as long as the material amounts on the wheel permit etc, if its a 3sgte wheel i think you have to remove the dowels out first (i machine them out), then machine fly, then insert new dowels, all n/p. yep, the step on a few ive seen is no where near a hundred thou!.. more like half -.75 mil.
something like this?

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/02/77.jpg

cantfindausername
18-12-2006, 18:05
Its the flywheel that is supplied in the Tilton kit.

I wish this thread would stop being moved about. I can never bloody find it when I come looking.

The flywheel step is fine on the flywheel, and I wouldn't like to machine that down to 0.02" to make it fit. I'm not happy with having to do any machine work on this atall. If needs be then I guess it would have to be done, either that or machine the floating plate down a bit.

I'm in the process of trying to get through to Tilton to see why there is thsi descrepancy between my clutch and the technical drawing.

Will report back what they say when I have actually spoken to someone.

Ant