Forged V6 pistons

[superchargedsam]

Ok as per my other thread this is the one to discuss them in, what you want from them what you think a good CR would be to either use with the SC and nitrous like I plan and I know quite a few others are looking at the SC route and others at tubby route !


So please discuss:

[Shorty]

Not possible to do the 3sgte pistons? Maby?

[superchargedsam]

Shorty yes I am going to look into that as well as I also need a couple of sets for the 3SGTE as well so will ask dont worry !

[Shorty]

Woohoo:)

[superchargedsam]

Tony tis ok I am looking to get the pistons foor the V6 custom made in the states to required spec, not looking to use 3SGTE ones but need a set of them for my 3SGTE ! The ones I am looking at are custom made so will be for the V6 not the 4banger !

[Zip]

Are you going to get some forged Pistons made up for yourself Sam?

I must the other thread and cant find it

[superchargedsam]

yup am after a set for the V6 and a couple of sets for the 3SGTE !

[Zip]

How the hell did you find those? Do you know someone that does this kind of thing?

[biteme]

Definately go for CP pistons if you can - they're works of art.

I'm in for a set of them in the New Year - once I've decided on what stage 2 of the car will entail. I'm definately doing pistons and rods - and I've already spoken to CP about pistons. About $700 I believe. As for rods. I'm not sure on them but I was going to contact Eagle. The Crank is fine :)

[Johnny P.]

The Pistons are the worst part ao the deal. Mine are setting me back $1500.00 US for a set of Mahles'. If the bottom end of the 3VZ is the same as the 1mze you can use aftermarket 22RE rods and have them narrowed up for the V6 crank. If you look at the specs they are only a little longer and have the same big and small pin Diam. But the big end is too thick.

[GaryA]

How about these ? http://www.prostreetonline.com/buy/je_forged_pistons/je-165053/

Think it has 22mm wrist pins which i think is the same as toyota ,can't find pin to crown measurment though

[Peebs]

Woo hoo, Forgies, yum yum.

I'll defo be up for a set.

Sam, I have msged Ad and Al, hopefully have some specs for the V6ers this week sometime :thumbsup:

[lodgeman]

hi, got some pm's from peebs and adam. now i know i am not adam but i wont be seeing him for about a week - so for your perusal i have taken some measurement with photo's so that i get it right!!!!:wierd2: any measurements i havent taken just let me know and i will take pics/measurements:hmm: posibly:rolleyes:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/11/46.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/11/47.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/11/48.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/11/49.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/11/50.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/11/51.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/11/52.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/11/53.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/11/54.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/11/55.jpg

[superchargedsam]

nice work Al ! will get Adam and Peebs to translate for me !

[BSM]

From past experience try these....

http://www.venolia.com/main.html

Jiff will back me up on this, if you're gonna buy some get a group buy done for all those that want them.

Si

[superchargedsam]

BSM thats who Im gonna be looking to use as Jiff put me on to them !

Cheers fella !

[Peebs]

Good work guys, we'll have some forgies by the new year methinks...

Ooooh, sounds like me chinese just arrived must dash :)

[biteme]

Good work guys, we'll have some forgies by the new year methinks...
Ooooh, sounds like me chinese just arrived must dash :)

Did they say "Hee ah yuf uken fud"?

[mr2aw11turbo]

Ooooh, sounds like me chinese just arrived must dash :)

Just had a chinese as well,


































She will be back next week for more of the same:roll:

[adamh]

for a company that specialises in one particular type of product, id say they are pretty well good sam. I used to make high ton tool & die like said compo. miss it greatly. gets my vote :thumbsup:

[Johnny P.]

Just a heads up for those of you rebuilding your v6. I just installed a set of Wiseco pistons in my 1mz. They are meant for a Honda H22 Prelude with a turbo. Only snag is the valve cut outs need to be redone (cost about $100.00). Really nice pistons and are off the shelf parts. The number for the kit is K544M88 plus two extras. Anyone else hear of this being done or am I the first??

[millentubby]

Did they say "Hee ah yuf uken fud"?

Had a Chinese tutor taking a Lab at uni on Monday morning - his name was Wei Wang - pronounced 'Wee Wang'.

How unfortunate!

Am watching this thread closely - will be wanting Forgies in the next year or two.

[biteme]

Had a Chinese tutor taking a Lab at uni on Monday morning - his name was Wei Wang - pronounced 'Wee Wang'.

How unfortunate!

Am watching this thread closely - will be wanting Forgies in the next year or two.

Am sure we can sort you out Squire :thumbsup:

[Nod]

3VZ stock info:

Bore : 87.5mm
Store : 82mm

Compression Height : 34mm
Rod Length : 148mm
Small End Pin Dia : 22mm
Big End Tunnel Dia : 57.98mm
Big End Width : 22.86mm

Nissan VG30DETT Pistons and RB30 Spool rods

Bore : 89mm
Stroke : 78mm

Compression Height : 32mm
Rod Length : 152mm
Small End Pin Dia : 22mm
Big End Tunnel Dia : 53mm
Big End Width : 20.75mm

Obviously you need to turn the 3VZ big end journals down to suit the Nissan rods but this means you can destroke it 4mm and reclaim the 2mm down bore clearance at the same time.

Bigger bore and smaller stroke is better for rod ratio and torque even though you are losing 50cc (a small price to pay IHMO).

You will need to bowl the pistons -20cc to get a sensible 8.3 CR using the stock 1.3mm head gasket.

My rods and pistons (and a set of 6G72 ARP main studs) cost £700 landed so if you are prepared to be creative with your pick and mix you can save a fortune.

Lyndon.

[Nod]

Just a heads up for those of you rebuilding your v6. I just installed a set of Wiseco pistons in my 1mz. They are meant for a Honda H22 Prelude with a turbo. Only snag is the valve cut outs need to be redone (cost about $100.00). Really nice pistons and are off the shelf parts. The number for the kit is K544M88 plus two extras. Anyone else hear of this being done or am I the first??

I looked at these, but as I'm going turbo, the bowl volume just wasn't enough with the squish/quench cleance I need to run.

Lyndon.

[way2fast]

What about valve clearance with this set up? by looking at the specs there are 3 major items to be addressed; bore the block, turn the big end of the rods to 57.98, and bowl the pistons?



3VZ stock info:

Bore : 87.5mm
Store : 82mm

Compression Height : 34mm
Rod Length : 148mm
Small End Pin Dia : 22mm
Big End Tunnel Dia : 57.98mm
Big End Width : 22.86mm

Nissan VG30DETT Pistons and RB30 Spool rods

Bore : 89mm
Stroke : 78mm

Compression Height : 32mm
Rod Length : 152mm
Small End Pin Dia : 22mm
Big End Tunnel Dia : 53mm
Big End Width : 20.75mm

Obviously you need to turn the 3VZ big end journals down to suit the Nissan rods but this means you can destroke it 4mm and reclaim the 2mm down bore clearance at the same time.

Bigger bore and smaller stroke is better for rod ratio and torque even though you are losing 50cc (a small price to pay IHMO).

You will need to bowl the pistons -20cc to get a sensible 8.3 CR using the stock 1.3mm head gasket.

My rods and pistons (and a set of 6G72 ARP main studs) cost £700 landed so if you are prepared to be creative with your pick and mix you can save a fortune.

Lyndon.

[Nod]

What about valve clearance with this set up? by looking at the specs there are 3 major items to be addressed; bore the block, turn the big end of the rods to 57.98, and bowl the pistons?

Clearance is what ever you make it when you machine the pistons to suit. The 3VZ has piss all lift (8.9mm inlet, 8.1mm exhaust) so I doubt you will have to many problems with stock cams.

Obviously, if you are looking for a forged NA setup then this combo is not for you.

Lyndon.

[Johnny P.]

The Prelude H22 blower pistons are really slick, big dish. I believe the comp ratio ended up around 8.5 and they are .010" shorter pin to top than the stock slugs so your back at zero deck height after resurfacing.

J.P.

[way2fast]

So it sounds like for me the nissan parts are the way to go, as i'm going turbo as well. Lyndon, i've pm'd you about getting it all worked out. I just saw these on ebay;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Nissan-VG30DETT-Pistons-Wiseco-87-5mm-300zx-VG30DE-VG30_W0QQitemZ180144611914QQihZ008QQcategoryZ33623 QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQtrksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQ cmdZViewItem

maybe a starting point....

[Nod]

So it sounds like for me the nissan parts are the way to go, as i'm going turbo as well. Lyndon, i've pm'd you about getting it all worked out. I just saw these on ebay;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Nissan-VG30DETT-Pistons-Wiseco-87-5mm-300zx-VG30DE-VG30_W0QQitemZ180144611914QQihZ008QQcategoryZ33623 QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQtrksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQ cmdZViewItem

maybe a starting point....

VG30DETT rods are 154.3mm long, so with the pin height reduction that's still an extra 4.3mm over stock.

Lyndon.

[snowtigger]

so in english please are they too long for the block then as nobody wants piston to valve clout so u have to also machine the pistons or the crank. i wish some one would just produce a kit on here for low comp forged pistons at a reasonable price for the v6 or an a to z of the options .

[Paul Woods]

fine work al! lol

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/01/218.jpg

[way2fast]

^^ nice one Paul... it took me a second or 2 to see what the pic was about


so in english please are they too long for the block then as nobody wants piston to valve clout so u have to also machine the pistons or the crank. i wish some one would just produce a kit on here for low comp forged pistons at a reasonable price for the v6 or an a to z of the options .



ok well i'll give it a try, i'm running these numbers with this calculator http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html check it out.

oh and this is calculated using stock rods, putting different rods makes for too many variables. decent stock rods can be found here http://www.doaracingengines.com/page11/page11.html after talking to the owner he said they are just as if not stronger than forged pieces.... maybe someone familliar with the processes listed can comment


first off for this comparison i'm going to use a bore of 88mm as you will need to bore or hone your walls to get anything new to fit (thanks Lyndon)


Stock:


Stock cr = 9.6:1

Bore = 88mm

Stroke = 82mm

deck height = 0?

Gasket thickness = 1.3mm

Dish = 0

this gives a Combustion Chamber Volume of 50.08cc's, i'm using this as a constant, the calculator will account for the decrease in compression height and the added volume it creates


so first we have


300zx (vg30dett) wiseco pistons p/n# K549M88

Bore = 88mm

stroke = 82mm

deck height = 2mm; we get this from a compression height of 34mm with stock pistons and 32mm with vg30 pistons

Dish = 9cc (enter -9)

using a combustion chamber volume of 50.08cc's we get a compression ratio of 7.3:1


Next we have prelude (H22) wiseco pistons p/n# K572M88 these are 11.5:1 in a prelude

Bore = 88mm

stroke = 82mm

deck height = 3mm; we get this from a compression height of 34mm with stock pistons and 32mm with H22 pistons

Dome = 7cc (enter 9)

using a combustion chamber volume of 50.08cc's we get a compression ratio of 8.2:1 a little better for off boost situations


these aren't yet 100% accurate yet; i don't know what the exact dish volume, or deck height of the stock pistons so the cr of the others will change because the comustion chamber volume will change, but its a starting point. if someone knows or has the missing info i will recalculate and update the numbers to be more accurate.

[snowtigger]

8.2:1 sounds like a good compromise between boost and off boost performance would bring down the knock threshold as well sounds like the Jobie's cheers your info is muchos appreciated thanks.

[biteme]

8.2 would allow huge boost :)

[snowtigger]

i know hehehehehehe hmmm a pair of ct20bs for sale off a st205 tempted. 560 dollars for pistons and 520 dollars for the rods now its just down to the rod to piston gudgeon pin fitment to work .

[way2fast]

In all honesty i don't think it will actually be 8.2:1, as i used 0 as for piston dish/dome, and from the pics i've seen our pistons have some dish to them so it may be up or down a few points (7.8~8.6 range) once i get the actual piston and head volume numbers. but yea 8.2:1 and with off the shelf pistons that can be sourced for as little as 500us, 14lbs of boost sounds like a ton of fun :hyper:

[Johnny P.]

I used the low compression Turbo pistons with a 14 cc dish for my 1mzfe. Its been a while since I did the math but the comp ratio ended up around 8.5 before the very small relief cuts for the valves. The 1mz has a 44cc head and a 8.2 cc gasket, the honda has a 53.8cc head ( not sure of the gasket ). Only strange thing is that the pins are offset the wrong way on half the pistons but since thats a old hot rod trick those three holes will make a small amount of power more than the others ( less drag ). I should have my car running again in the next week, the engine is going back in this weekend!!

[Johnny P.]

Started my car today with the all new engine( 1mzfe sc ) with stand alone, runs sweet. I will post a link to a U-tube vid this week when I have time.