View Full Version : 3vz v6 tuning :)
Hey everyone...
Not quite the right forum, this is more of a Mk2.5 question I guess.
I'm having a transplant done - the v6 into a revision 3 turbo mk2. I hate lag you see :)
Anyways, I'm looking for some information and/or ideas that the brains-that-be on here would have with regards to tuning the 3zv (I'm already supercharging the little b4574rd!). Now I know already that the cams can be done, and someone has already kindly offered to let me have their v6 cams so that I can get them reprofiled - and I'll share all the details on here and with Paul for everyone else - but bear in mind, they'll be more geared towards a supercharger friendly engine than N/A.
Next questions is really to do with the valves. I know Ferrea (http://www.ferrea.com) do some oversized valves for the 3sgte which I've heard fit the V6 (Part Numbers: F1864P and F1866P). They also do the springs and seats (Part Numbers: S10034 and SL1007).
After that, there's headwork - which I believe Goldy thinks there's a significant amount of power to be gained. Can anyone recommmend somewhere to get this work done? Paul?
Any other recommendations? Without going for major engine internals - thats later down the line, the budget is not infinate ;)
Love to hear any and all suggestions.
Cheers!
Cool, another V6er, yay.
There is
30-35 BHP to be gained from gas flowing the heads
15-25 BHP from remaking the exhaust center section (standard is crap)
12-15 BHP from the "timing and AFM" mod
10-15 BHP for removing the EGR system
There is a guy running one in a boat with a reported 375 BHP and that is NA format. So plenty of power to be had. I believe he has upped the compression ratio (not sure exactly, but if I remember right about 12.5:1), upped the rods and pistons and standalone system.
I reckon with the right touch these engines could reach in excess of 850 BHP on a standard (but shot peened) crank, obviiously though, this sort of power would cost you a fair old whack, like 6-8k plus. But, for around 1.5 to 2k (using new parts) you could get around 350+ no problem, with turbo(s).
check out this link
http://www.mr2board.com/forums/mk-2-v6/Toyota-MR2-1899-toysrmes-n-3vz-fe-tuning-guide-applies-all-n-v6s.html
also check out my conversion thread/gallery and the conversion carried out on Fizzy's MR2
Hmm thats interesting - so it's saying I shouldn't do the cams - could save me a nice few quid there to reallocate elsewhere :)
So I need:
- someone who has a recommendation for a garage/person to do the gas-flowing of the heads (Paul's installing it, so I'll ask him first - hobnobs in it!).
- a custom exhaust centre section down to my turbo exhaust backbox
- Paul to do the timing (there's hob nobs there too ;)
- the EGR removed (I think Paul does this as a matter of course).
All in all I could gain around 65bhp by doing this without adding the blower?
How much of an effect will this have on the amount of boost I can run the blower at in your opinion? I was planning on 7psi with some Water Injection (mappable) with a standalone (thinking of a Link G2).:nuts:
With this then, in reality, 340-350bhp is perfectly achieveable isn't it?
Well as someone who's keen but useless - I effectively need pointing in the right direction :p
I've got
- transplant sorted. No help needed there :)
- a supercharger lined up - just awaiting confirmation :)
- a Water Injection System (and lots of methanol! :) )
- a decat pipe on the MR2 already with a belting good exhaust
- people in place to do the standalone
I need
- centre section for an exhaust creating - any custom exhaust place?
- cylinder head ported and polished - recommendations?
- more money and experise! :p
Cheers again everyone ...
Okay, water injection depends on HOW you use the car.
If you are either racing or using the car on long runs, water injection systems are not too bad, but on short runs they increase the likelyhood of engine wear due to water residue being present more often and with a lesser degree of heating to "vent" this build up.... Think about it, a lot of valves inside most enigines are open at the same allowing for evaporation, yet without heat, how can induced water vaporize ? It can't so instead is slowly pits and rusts the bores, and though miniscule at first, we all know rust spreads and rust is bad, very bad, especially there...INSIDE.
My advice is steer clear for an every day car, but go for it if it's your "toy" :)
Paul Woods
23-09-2006, 07:29
good advice from the guys there....as for the exhaust centre section i can handle that no probs,i'll ask some of my motor trade contacts about flowing the heads,theres bound to be a good guy up here for that.
Peebs surely if you are just having the WI come into play during high boost moments only there will be no issues? my understanding of WI is that its mixed with the intake charge as a fine mist to increase its density and lower the charge temp therefore reducing the risk of det.
Interesting point on the rusting though,i'll have to look into that one.
Brilliant.
I'm feeling confident about this being a GREAT conversion - I actually got up early today to read the comments! I know it's my interest in MR2's rekindled if it does that :)
I got a good PM from Ian (Fizzy) which was mentioning flywheels - I think I'll opt for a Fidanza one to go with the car. I guess this is one for a turbo fitment?
I'm going to use the money that I'd allowed for cams and valves to get the oil/water pumps and the pulleys etc all serviced up with new parts.
Bring it on!
Actually, its a manual camry flywheel, as the mr2 turbo flywheel bolt hole placements are in a slightly different position.
Fidanza part number 130881 I believe, and I think its actually listed as a flywheel for the 3.4 ltr camry/solara in the us. Mates up with a mr2 turbo clutch and cover with no problems.
I don't believe an na clutch will fit, but as you already have turbo parts at your disposal this should not be a problem. :D
Sweet. I'll get that ordered this week with a clutch for an MR2 Turbo then :)
Ahh .. the sounds of pennies dropping!
Paul Woods
23-09-2006, 14:03
yep na and tubby clutches are way different...i can source pumps and stuff like that no problem johnny.
Will this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/97-00-Camry-V6-and-99-03-Solara-V6-BLACK-Injen-Intake_W0QQitemZ140035760460QQihZ004QQcategoryZ386 34QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) intake from a 1MZFE S/C Solara fit the 3VZFE engine that I'm getting?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/97-00-Camry-V6-and-99-03-Solara-V6-BLACK-Injen-Intake_W0QQitemZ140035760460QQihZ004QQcategoryZ386 34QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Cheers.
J
Will this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/97-00-Camry-V6-and-99-03-Solara-V6-BLACK-Injen-Intake_W0QQitemZ140035760460QQihZ004QQcategoryZ386 34QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) intake from a 1MZFE S/C Solara fit the 3VZFE engine that I'm getting?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/97-00-Camry-V6-and-99-03-Solara-V6-BLACK-Injen-Intake_W0QQitemZ140035760460QQihZ004QQcategoryZ386 34QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Cheers.
J
Hi,
Erm... nope? The pipework is way too long, so I'm guessing its for use with the later map sensor, and not the 3vz's air flow meter?
Guess you could cut it down, but you would still needs to make a bracket to fit the air flow meter. Best get one for the afm straight off to save hastle. :D
Something like this - which I believe is what I bought myself... :D
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250033826381
Hope that helps!
- Fizzy.
superchargedsam
04-10-2006, 17:52
agree with tony and fizz ! total waste of money for that for sure ! wont be designed for the MR engine bay anyway so chances are it wont be in the right place for some decent cool air feed anyways ! go universal like the one fizz bought and do your own pipework !
Paul Woods
04-10-2006, 18:02
that pipe is for a 1mz which has an AFM like the 3vz but its just a small MAF thats mounted on the tubing and not a huge cheese wedge AFM like the 3vz has.....in short no that intake pipe wont work on a 3vz...but johnny i get your filter and AFM adaptor all sorted out anyway so its no problem.
Johnny P.
04-10-2006, 21:59
Carefull with the supercharging, the stock pistons on my 1mzfe ( weak I know ) all came apart with only 4psi of boost. Now the best part, since you have to have custom pistons made you can count on a $1200.00 to $1500.00 bill. And thats before rods, headwork, or gaskets. I agree with the others on the intake. You can make one with a hack saw and a $20 honda intake kit from the local parts store. Or you can use one from the junk yard for that stock look that will make people wonder.
...but johnny i get your filter and AFM adaptor all sorted out anyway so its no problem.
Can you hear that? *listens* It's music to my ears....
I just seen this on another forum written by a guy from over here...
"Essentially I used a local UK company (Piper) to re-profile my cams, I also have replaced the 3VZ valves with MR2 turbo valves, these are about 1mm larger and 5mm longer than the 3VZ ones, so I was able to use the shimless buckets from the MK3 MR2 without using spacers, by trimming the valve shafts to suit rather than messing around with spacers. Hopefully this will allow me to rev her higher."
Any one able to help in doing this?
superchargedsam
05-10-2006, 17:51
oh I like the sound of that mod Johnny old boy ! did it state anywhere what the cams were reprofiled to ?
Racebreed
06-10-2006, 14:50
Cool, another V6er, yay.
There is
30-35 BHP to be gained from gas flowing the heads
15-25 BHP from remaking the exhaust center section (standard is crap)
12-15 BHP from the "timing and AFM" mod
10-15 BHP for removing the EGR system
There is a guy running one in a boat with a reported 375 BHP and that is NA format. So plenty of power to be had. I believe he has upped the compression ratio (not sure exactly, but if I remember right about 12.5:1), upped the rods and pistons and standalone system.
I reckon with the right touch these engines could reach in excess of 850 BHP on a standard (but shot peened) crank, obviiously though, this sort of power would cost you a fair old whack, like 6-8k plus. But, for around 1.5 to 2k (using new parts) you could get around 350+ no problem, with turbo(s).
check out this link
http://www.mr2board.com/forums/mk-2-v6/Toyota-MR2-1899-toysrmes-n-3vz-fe-tuning-guide-applies-all-n-v6s.html
also check out my conversion thread/gallery and the conversion carried out on Fizzy's MR2
are you saying then essentially
a 3.0V6 camry engine is 185bhp
changing the exhaust, the egr mod and the timing mod could bring the engine up to circa 230bhp? is that not optomistic? when i removed the EGR on my 200sx it made no real difference
How easy/hard is to change to the shimless buckets? I'm getting the head ported and polished on mine, with a 3 angle valve grind job as well as the supercharger.
There's the manifold, new y pipe, EGR mod, timing and then I'm getting it all mapped. Am I best looking at higher revs or would that be too hard on the SC?
I'm happy to get all the work done at once now before it all goes back in. Lightweight flywheel and heavy duty clutch are already waiting :-)
What else should I be looking at?
oh I like the sound of that mod Johnny old boy ! did it state anywhere what the cams were reprofiled to ?
I think the duration was 268... not sure on the lift though. Hmm. Must look harder I guess :p
Chachachiiiiiing....
Might just leave it with the headwork, manifold, supercharger, EGR mod, Y pipe etc - mapped in I should be looking around the low-mid 300bhp mark @ 7psi.
Fingers crossed. Then I can go for more revs and more oomph when I've researched it all a little more :-)
Racebreed
09-10-2006, 19:53
on the basis that the MRV6 in MR2 only was standard v6 with a supercharger was running 288ish bhp at 4psi there is no reason unless the internals wont cope that you couldnt run more like 350-380bhp
im aiming for 400bhp per tonne, then im going time attacking :drive:
Racebreed
09-10-2006, 19:53
on the basis that the MRV6 in MR2 only was standard v6 with a supercharger was running 288ish bhp at 4psi there is no reason unless the internals wont cope that you couldnt run more like 350-380bhp
im aiming for 400bhp per tonne, then im going time attacking :drive:
superchargedsam
09-10-2006, 22:46
nice one racebreed !
superchargedsam
09-10-2006, 22:46
nice one racebreed
Racebreed
10-10-2006, 17:41
i didnt mean to post twice
For those of you in the same position of me - I've found a decent site in the US (www.ultrarev.com (http://www.ultrarev.com)) that are willing to ship to the UK. They stock Fidanza flywheels for the camry and RPS clutches for the MK2 turbo. Ace stuff and they are reasonable for shipping over here too.
Typical prices are:
Fidanza flywheel (Part: 130881) - $319 (?177*)
RPS Clutches (Part: SS-22905-SP) - $425.25 (?236*)
Magnecour KV85's (Part: 65156) - $199.20 (?110*)
Shipping is around $80 to the UK.
*based on $1.8 to ?1 :)
Hope this is of some use to some people ... oh yeah, MRV6, they do some 1MZ-FE stuff, so you're not left out :)
Typical prices are:
Fidanza flywheel (Part: 130881) - $319 (?177*)
RPS Clutches (Part: SS-22905-SP) - $425.25 (?236*)
Magnecour KV85's (Part: 65156) - $199.20 (?110*)
Shipping is around $80 to the UK.
*based on $1.8 to ?1 :)
Thats a good price forthe flywheel. I bought one for approx ?200 new off an ebay shop. Looks like the $:? rate is getting better. :D
May invest in a set of Magnecor leads.... :mrgreen:
Looks like the $:? rate is getting better. :D
:mrgreen:
It's not to bad, fairly stable. Last week when I bought the S/C I got $1.821 to ?1 - so it's down by 2 cents at the moment.
Let's see what the economic forecast holds :):thumbsup:
Ok, just got an RPS Max Puk clutch from Titanmotorsports in the States.
It's usallly nigh on ?400 delivered here, you can get them for ?277 with shipping included - can't argue with that!!
Paul Woods
18-10-2006, 07:16
back of the net mate
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/05/20.gif
Tell me about it. Well happy with the result of that and the flywheel. I think both of them worked out about the same as the clutch plus delivery in the UK. I almost feel like I stole it, and being a scouser, that makes me happy :)
Just need an engine capable of holding upto 525lb/ft now Paul....
:)
johnny which supercharger did you get?
and how much $
the TRD Supercharger for the 1MZ-FE - ?1100 delivered :)
Was this one on ebay?
excellent, must look into getting one of these when i finally get my engine in.
what gains will you get over standard?
Racebreed
18-10-2006, 21:49
Was this one on ebay?
excellent, must look into getting one of these when i finally get my engine in.
what gains will you get over standard?
The camry lump is 185bhp standard MRV6 saw about 280ish BHP with 4psi boost i think so about 40% increase!!!!
But MRV6 had the 1MZ-FE which is about 5bhp up on the 3VZ-FE; but the 3VZ-FE has the ability to have more oomph, with the EGR block off, the adjusted timing the AFR mod, I think it's relatively simple to get 200bhp N/A from the 3VZ-FE.
I think he got 272bhp @ 4psi; and he had the manifold made into a twin exit exhaust and freed up quite a few horses. Hopefully, I'd be around the 290bhp mark @ 4psi with the head and valve work.
Might as well add two more PSI for luck and a standalone!
If you're after a S/C unit, then you can do a lot worse than registering @ www.solaraguy.org (http://www.solaraguy.org) and looking around the For Sale bit. They pop up fairly regularly from there - thats where I sourced mine from :)
The TRD Supercharger for the 1mzfe - ?1100 delivered :)
Any other recommendations? Without going for major engine internals - thats later down the line, the budget is not infinate ;)
Care to rethink that phrase Mr G? lol
nope ... it's not infinate
Once the 5VZ and the Spider are finished. Am done. I can start saving again :)
Am only pulling yer leg chief. Was reading through loads of old posts today and that one stuck out.
By the way, it's spelt Infinite. lol
Not in my head it's not :)
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