View Full Version : The official "It's all Lodge's Fault" thread.
Marksman
20-08-2006, 13:21
Hokay V6 type chaps, just out of idle curiosity, nothing more :whistle:, does the V6 install use exactly the same gearbox location as the tubby?
If so... ...if I were to take a MK1 chassis that, just for arguement's sake, had a completed set of 1.5 tubby engine and torque mounts, could I remove the driver's side mount, slap a V6 on a tubby box, bolt in place with the 3 existing mounts, and then just redo one engine mount, or is the whole lot different?
Sorry if this has been answered before; my search for "V6 engine mount" returned over 250 matches...
Thanks for the help chaps,
Owen.
Well, considering its a straight drop in replacement into a mk2, if you have done a turbo engine conversion on a mk1, then I would say that a v6 would also use those mounts. All you would need is an adaptor plate from Peebs to allow the use of the "standard" mk2 engine mount on the drivers side of the engine.
I think that makes sense anyway. :D
Marksman
20-08-2006, 13:50
Oooowww, melikes!
Thanks Fizzy.
Sponge Bob
20-08-2006, 13:53
Er... Owen - you switching to V6??
Marksman
20-08-2006, 14:18
Er... Owen - you switching to V6??
No, but sort of, I hope to have two fairly soon...
O.S.
Greedy git :mrgreen:
The mounts shouldn't be a problem, but what about clearance in the mk1 bay, does the engine mount in a different position in the mk1 with the v6/turbo?
Sponge Bob
20-08-2006, 14:29
Groovy mate!! :)
Marksman
20-08-2006, 14:32
Greedy git :mrgreen:
The mounts shouldn't be a problem, but what about clearance in the mk1 bay, does the engine mount in a different position in the mk1 with the v6/turbo?
My thoughts exactly hence the initial question. :nerd:
If the driveshafts are in a central and level position it has to be close but am unsure as to firewall positions and the like.
IF it's OK, and it's just a case of using one of Peebs and Tone's V6 brackets then that'd mean the the jig could be used for both swaps too...
Pebbs and Tone? You need a name for your enterprise, we can't keep typing in Peebs and Tone. Something like Woodsport rolls off the keyboard so much more easily...
O.S.
Marksman
20-08-2006, 14:34
Just waiting with dread for Paul to wade in with his favorite "Pissing on Chips" smilie.
O.S.
Pebbs and Tone? You need a name for your enterprise, we can't keep typing in Peebs and Tone. Something like Woodsport rolls off the keyboard so much more easily...
O.S.
Peebs + Tony = PonySport? :D
Marksman
20-08-2006, 14:45
Peebs + Tony = PonySport? :D
I hate internet speak but that was a GLOL, or ROFLMAO, good work. :praise2:
In fact don't tell them, just use Ponysport in any further posts about them and I'm sure it'll catch on. :beer:
O.S.
Hope this answers your question in Paul's absence:
http://twobrutal.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1843
21-01-2006, 00:26
http://twobrutal.co.uk/image.php?u=40&dateline=1147422375 (http://twobrutal.co.uk/member.php?u=40)lodgeman (http://twobrutal.co.uk/member.php?u=40) http://twobrutal.co.uk/images/statusicon/user_online.gif Mk1b - 3VZ-FE (V6) - Swap completed. vbmenu_register("postmenu_16337", true);
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http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg
paul is that good for the turbo swap only or will the v6 users make use of it? going to self fit so not asking for myself! just for future reference!:wave:
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http://twobrutal.co.uk/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 21-01-2006, 08:19
http://twobrutal.co.uk/image.php?u=4&dateline=1147543152 (http://twobrutal.co.uk/member.php?u=4)Paul Woods (http://twobrutal.co.uk/member.php?u=4) http://twobrutal.co.uk/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif - 1UZ-FE (V8) - Collecting parts. vbmenu_register("postmenu_16353", true);
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http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg
good question al...,as you know one option for the v6ers is to use the camry auto shaft with st185 complete driveshafts,this places the gearbox 15mm further right in the engine bay so the answer is no it wont work with that set up.....but! if a v6 swapper was to use the turbo output shaft and the turbo driveshafts then yes they could use the jig.
I think the up/down,forward/aft location of the 3s-gte is very similar to 3vz-fe...so yes the jig should be fine for a v6 swap provided they use the turbo shafts.
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Marksman
20-08-2006, 15:46
Cheers Jasper, I might just have to test that theory!
Owen.
lodgeman
20-08-2006, 15:51
why is it always my fault? eh? i am always getting the blame for stuff!!!!:doh: all i did was give you my keys for a while!:whistle: or could it be something to do with the fact that you are getting welly's turbo conversion possibly?:whistle:
as for conversion the gearbox mounts and torque mounts are the same as the turbo conversion as you are using the same gearbox in basically the same location! peebs/tony's mounting is for the mk2 only! wont fit on the mk1. you will have to alter slightly the height of the mounting that is next to the cambelt, paul used the a different spec mount for that - the two mounts are on here somewhere,just compare the two! bulkhead will have to be altered but apart from that most everything else is the same! if you want any close up pics i can do that at the moment as my engine is out! just let me know what you want and i will get it for you!!
lodgeman
20-08-2006, 15:54
oh and also you will have to move the supported shaft mounting further inward, you will have to machine a groove for the circlip to sit in!
Marksman
20-08-2006, 16:06
Cheers Lodge.
Little did I think that you having the generosity required to hand over your keys would lead to this! :thumbsup:
TBH with the rev counter yet to be re-calibrated and the pot holey roads on the JAE site I didn't give your car the full monty so can't really comment on the car's full performance. (Though I'm sure that it didn't escape your notice that a "nip round the block" turned more into a "oh I havent been to that furthest corner of JAE, oh hang on what about that bit, and..." In fact it was just hearing the damn thing idle for the first time that was pretty much enough!
Bugger it's just ocured to me that if I'd've been caught by the organisers putting your car sideways round the complex they would have thrown me out and I'd've had no way to return your car :whistle:
Cheers 'n' all,
Owen.
lodgeman
20-08-2006, 16:10
yes but i would have ended up with miss owen,baldric,engine hoist, sams seats,a festival tent,beer and a toyota pickup:whistle:
Marksman
20-08-2006, 16:17
yes but i would have ended up with miss owen,baldric,engine hoist, sams seats,a festival tent,beer and a toyota pickup:whistle:
Sounds like a fair trade!
Would it be a tad unfair to say that the V6 might still be running too?
:hidesbehi :hidesbehi (j/k honest)
O.S.
lodgeman
20-08-2006, 16:22
did you need any help?
well tuff !!!!!:rant: you've blown it now!!:whistle:
Marksman
20-08-2006, 16:25
Methinks I deserved that.
O.S.
Arkwright
20-08-2006, 19:03
or could it be something to do with the fact that you are getting welly's turbo conversion possibly?:whistle:
Technically I'm hoping to get Welly's conversion - but I'll need quite a bit of help from Marksman to get it running again so we might well "have to come to an arrangment" <:( :shrug:
Sounds like a fair trade!
O.S.
Now, about this arrangment :slap: :nunu: :smack:
Jiff Lemon
20-08-2006, 19:50
Welcome to the dark side Owen. Knew we'd get you in the end.
Just for reference, I'm also going to be using the tubby shafts instead of the ST185's I've already got (Hence why my build has kinda stopped).
Marksman
20-08-2006, 19:56
Oooh, hinterwestin'
Why the stop? Just searching for parts?
O.S.
Jiff Lemon
20-08-2006, 20:24
Nope, merely plucking up the courage to tell BSM that the mounts he spent 4 days creating, reinforcing and welding in, need grinding out and starting again....
Rather you than me m8 :boogie:
superchargedsam
20-08-2006, 20:59
uh oh jiffy ! nice knowin ya fella !
Let us know where/when the wake is, we'll give you a good send off lol
Marksman
20-08-2006, 22:27
Oh heck, that's not good news. What was the problem? Oh and who did the measuring? Sounds like we need a V6 jig :whistle:
O.S.
aha so thats the plan, one of each.. and why not :mrgreen: .
Marksman
20-08-2006, 22:34
aha so thats the plan, one of each.. and why not :mrgreen: .
Jigs or MK1.5's?
O.S.
mr2aw11turbo
20-08-2006, 22:49
so you going to take another supercharger apart then? :hidesbehi
Marksman
20-08-2006, 23:01
so you going to take another supercharger apart then? :hidesbehi
Hmm, could do an avatar like Pauls... I wonder what a 14000rpm supercharger looks like if you drain the oil out first?
Alas no, no superchargers will be harmed in the making of this project :sad:
O.S.
Jigs or MK1.5's?
O.S.
1.5's?? unless im insanely thick this eve :) , dont answer that.
turbo for Ms and V for owen, or a bit of both?
Jiff Lemon
20-08-2006, 23:08
ok, well as I see it we dont: (maybe I'm feeling brave as I've had another 1/2 litre night! :D )
I'll happily wait for mr woods to correct but:
1) We know that the jig works fine for tubby conversion.
2) therefore, let us asume our mounting points are identical to the mk2 (everyone - Spit! there.... naughty word out of mouths)
3) We know that fourVeeSix and Peebs produce a rather sexy mount for the V6 to utilise those mounts.
4) Therefore assuming we use the tubby shafts, the jig and mounts will work to mount the V6 in place.
I'll happily be the guinea pig (not in a mr woods ice pop way) for the tests.... Who's got the jig and whose next in line? (far too wibbyly to be searching threads now)
Who's got the jig and whose next in line? (far too wibbyly to be searching threads now)
Theres only 1 Jig:eek2:
Can we get a few more made up, i might need on sent down here in futurelol
Marksman
21-08-2006, 07:07
ok, well as I see it we dont: (maybe I'm feeling brave as I've had another 1/2 litre night! :D )
I'll happily wait for mr woods to correct but:
1) We know that the jig works fine for tubby conversion.
2) therefore, let us asume our mounting points are identical to the mk2 (everyone - Spit! there.... naughty word out of mouths)
3) We know that fourVeeSix and Peebs produce a rather sexy mount for the V6 to utilise those mounts.
4) Therefore assuming we use the tubby shafts, the jig and mounts will work to mount the V6 in place.
I'll happily be the guinea pig (not in a mr woods ice pop way) for the tests.... Who's got the jig and whose next in line? (far too wibbyly to be searching threads now)
All Good points Jiff. The distances centre to center between all 4 mounts will be the same.
However if the V6 has to be tilted to a different angle or has slightly different location forwards / backwards then the jig'll put perfectly spaced mounts in exactly the wrong place... :blush: :violin: And the torque mounts'll be different too.
O.S.
Marksman
21-08-2006, 07:10
1.5's?? unless im insanely thick this eve :) , dont answer that.
turbo for Ms and V for owen, or a bit of both?
SC for Miss Owen, Turbo & V6 for Mr Owen?
Hmm, methinks I won't get away with that for long. The new one'll probably end up as one for Miss Owen.
O.S.
Jiff Lemon
21-08-2006, 08:18
All Good points Jiff. The distances centre to center between all 4 mounts will be the same.
However if the V6 has to be tilted to a different angle or has slightly different location forwards / backwards then the jig'll put perfectly spaced mounts in exactly the wrong place... :blush: :violin: And the torque mounts'll be different too.
O.S.
Ah, but....
When those (rinse mouth) Mk2 boys (spit) do the V6, the angle of the gearbox (and thus, engine) remains the same. Hence my reasoning
If the V6 uses the turbo driveshaft set complete the left/right location will be the same as with the turbo engine (both in a Mk1 of course)
If the V6 uses the Camry supported shaft and ST185shafts the left/right location will be about 15mm right of a turbo conversion.
However the fore/aft locations and rotations of the two engines are likely to be slightly different. This could be checked approx by measuring the gap between the driveshaft flanges and the end of the suspension mount bolt which projects close to it on both a turbo car and a V6.
All I have said so far applies to a Mk1 and all four mounts are affected.
I imagine the Mk2 bay is a different width to the Mk1 so Ponysports mount will reflect this.
I would be surprised Owen if it bolted straight up with only the right mount to sort but you may be lucky! When putting my V6 in there wasn't a huge amount of leeway say 5mm in any direction so I think you have to be prepared to reposition mounts.
I am sure BSM would be willing to pop over and do them one evening!!
Arkwright
22-08-2006, 13:38
1.5's?? unless im insanely thick this eve :) , dont answer that.
turbo for Ms and V for owen, or a bit of both?
SC for Miss Owen, Turbo & V6 for Mr Owen?
Hmm, methinks I won't get away with that for long. The new one'll probably end up as one for Miss Owen.
O.S.
Me thinks you'd be correct in your thinking there Mr. Owen!
Me also thinks that Adam got it right!
However, I might allow you to carry on thinking that way until you've fixed the Tubby (if I get it - Welly??? Where are you????) :woods:
Marksman
22-08-2006, 19:42
If the V6 uses the turbo driveshaft...
Many thanks JB, exactly the kind of opinion I was after :) Not sure if BSM will be in a mood to do to many more V6 engine mounts just at the moment :whistle: :tease:
5mm in each direction? Eeek. Methinks that banking on the tubby mounts to just happen to be in the right place is a tad foolish then! You never know though :hmm: Anyone got a dead V6 engine they can spare for a bit of jiggery pokery? (Oh and if you could fly it to S.Wales would be nice too, or maybe do a mould and make a lightweight foam version... [Emma mode off]
So it's a now a watch this space kind of affair.
Cheers all,
Owen.
lodgeman
22-08-2006, 22:37
oh let me think? who do we know with a dead v6 engine?:hmm: anyone blown one up recently?..........................
oh that would be me then:whistle: presumeably its just the block and front mount you need yes?
Marksman
22-08-2006, 22:50
Hiya Lodge.
Sorry for the stupid post. Faxing an engine from one country to another is probably not going to be cost effective!
Bugger, I really wish I'd taken more notice of your install at JAE!
Which bits give the tight clearances when the V6 engine's installed? Crank pulley to chassis rails, anciliries to firewall and boot-wall, or damn near everything?
Ta muchley, and I appologise unreservedly for hinting that I might not have toasted your V6 had it have been in my safe keeping. Your engine was obviously on it's way out before you even got near it, etc. :kissass: :kissass:
Cheers,
Owen.
lodgeman
22-08-2006, 23:09
such blatant grovelling:poke2: try looking at this
http://twobrutal.co.uk/showthread.php?t=220&page=5
shows gaps etc. probably the tightest gap is the crank pulley end, but that still had air between the chassis and engine!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/07/176.jpg
firewall is no problem with the mod that paul did. does'nt that look lovely:hmm:
Marksman
22-08-2006, 23:20
TA, much reading to be, er read, in the weeks to come.
And after all I've said about fat arsed V6's too :banghead: , ah well if you can't beat 'em, then spank 'em.
Cheers Lodge,
Owen.
Marksman
22-08-2006, 23:22
Oh and yes that does look most lovely. Still can't believe how much space there is... that can't really be a MK1, the SC's way nastier that that!
Dribble 'n' sleep time.
Ta,
Owen.
Paul Woods
23-08-2006, 15:24
very interesting thread chaps,2 dinars worth (from tunisia)....i have here two jigs,one i use for mk1.5 3s-gte and the other a v6 jig into mk1...however the two jigs place the gearbox in slightly different places (forget about engine location as thats just bolted to the box and its the box we need to worry about)...the v6 needs to sit slightly lower in the bay so this will be the difference,if you use turbo shafts its left right location will be the same
In brief,if you have welded in mounts for a 3s-gte and want to fit the v6 instead it will work,but only if you use turbo shafts and relocate the bearing etc,plus the ponysport :) mount should also work but the engine will sit somewhat higher in the bay than it does with my v6 jig.....i'll throw up some pics when i get back.....woods out.
lodgeman
23-08-2006, 15:36
well said mr woods- got some pics of the mounts here- may help or they may not! :mrgreen:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/08/109.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/08/110.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/08/111.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/08/112.jpg
and firewall
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/08/113.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/08/114.jpg
superchargedsam
23-08-2006, 15:37
cant wait to get started on PAffs as he will defo cry when we first take a grinder to it !
Marksman
23-08-2006, 16:51
Cheers chaps, thats all good news!
Paul, how much difference up/down are we talking? If it's only 20mm or so then a set of spacers between mounts / box / engine might sort that out perfectly...
O.S.
Sam dunno if I'll cry cos of the grinder it'll probly be because I'll be driving the fiesta around, looks like the bike may be used a little more.
Owen, wouldn't mind having a look myself when you try out the mounts (you may be started quicker than me cos we have to get Sams car out of the way first).
This little corridor of the M4 is getting very interesting :)
If you guys want to pile in a car and come up to Manchester you can do all the measuring and checking you like. Eggs/beans/cheese on toast provided!!
superchargedsam
24-08-2006, 21:56
cant you send it down with goldy on saturday for us to have a look at ?
Marksman
24-08-2006, 23:06
Cheers JB, splendid offer.
O.S.
cant you send it down with goldy on saturday for us to have a look at ?
I'll get my extra large holdall out then :shifty:
superchargedsam
25-08-2006, 17:27
good idea fella ! ;)
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