The megasquirt thread

[Paul Woods]

Now we know its standalone only on this project (1uz dizzys go in the bin,no room for them),ive been in touch with bill shurvinton who is the god of all things megasquirt here in the uk.

Ive asked him for either a shopping list or details of the kit we need to fuel and spark the 1uz,if anyone can help he can,hopefully he has off the shelf kits with all of the coilpacks,trigger wheels and sensors we need.

Anything i can find out about this will be posted here.

Podge did you recieve the MS software i sent you mate?

[podge]

hi paul no couldnt get the email if you could send it again to tatts92@yahoo.com i should be able to get it there

[David Sleith]

I'm sure I seen on a site somewhere that engines after 1999 didn't have distributors. Could you not use the bits off the later V8's?

[Paul Woods]

is that true david? interesting! if that was the case we could probably do that,but finding 99 gear might be very costly and the sensors might be different too....im thinking megasquirt because its such a cheap reliable and fully programmable set up.

Podge i'll send again mate.

[Goldy]

*Cough *cough

http://twobrutal.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2422

any use :hidesbehi

[David Sleith]

Understanding Today's Multi-Coil Ignition Systems

http://www.aa1car.com/library/2004/us20406.htm

Helped me understand a little more about distributorless ignitions

[AlunJ]

Megasquirt, the way of the future :thumbsup: (and ECU of choice for the silly project cars).

There's info on 4age and 4agte installs using both distributor and dizzyless systems spotted around on google. Had a couple of links before I lost my HD's :doh: Will see if I can dig anything useful out again.

[lodgeman]

this may answer a couple of questions? hopefully?

http://v8supra.com/delco.html

and you probably know this already but this is a breakdown of the ign system of the engine

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h25.pdf

[Paul Woods]

good links lodge,the GM delco is a nice piece of hardware but unfortunately it still uses the stock distributors,which we need to ditch because of space....using a MS means we can use a ford EDIS 8 set up and lose the dizzys.

The cost of a MS V3 (the latest version with lots of cool control systems and programmable outputs) costs £250 and the EDIS 8 is £90 from the US,it really is the cheapest way to go standalone.

Im def going MS on this,i need to find out today if the crank sensor toothed wheel has 36 teeth or not.

[podge]

ive been on the megasquirt website and asked some questions and aparently the edis 8 and 36-1 crank wheel is the easiest to deal with. also ill probably use the squirts map sensor for air metering

[Paul Woods]

quick update podge,we dont even need the 36 tooth wheel or edis 8.....the 1uz has a 12 tooth wheel behind the crank pulley with a pickup sensor already mounted. I made a few enquiries and the MS v3 comes with coil drivers and will work with our 12 tooth pickup,all we need to do is saw off one of the teeth so theres a gap for TDC and then get two ford wasted coilpacks (from escorts and the like) and we are good to go! they are a tenner each from the scrappies,make sure you get the electrical connector with them and the HT leads,not sure if they will fit but they have a funny clipped end on them so best grab them anyway.....so the MS is looking easier as we go....totally agree,we can use the MS map sensor for fuel metering and ditch the v8 AFM.

So no need for toothed wheels,we already got what we need :boogie:

[podge]

wouldnt that be four coilpacks or are there four outlets on each coil ?

[Paul Woods]

four outlets on each ford pack matey :boogie:

[podge]

cool very cool things just keep gettin better

[weegaz22]

paul, just an idea, but for the fuelling why not go for 2 sets of R1 carbs? or if you really want fuel injection then a set of bike throttle bodies, followed by megasquirt management

would give you more space in the bay i think, all you would need would be the manifold made up to mate the carbs to, not to mention how awesome it would sound

[Paul Woods]

basically because we need spark control anyway so still need the MS...so might as well stick to injectors which work so much better than carbs ever can...infinitely tunable too on the mapping side of things...carbs look better in my opinion though.

[weegaz22]

basically because we need spark control anyway so still need the MS...so might as well stick to injectors which work so much better than carbs ever can...infinitely tunable too on the mapping side of things...carbs look better in my opinion though.


yeah, its just ive heard a lot of people having probs mapping m/s, but this was on turbocharged cars so mapping might have been different
compared to n/a lumps

couldnt it be done with standalone ignition setup on carbs?

[Paul Woods]

yeah theres a MS megajolt that just controls spark leaving you free to fuel it however you want...carbs are hard to jet correctly too though and they are a compromise through the rev range on correct air/fuel ratio,bascially what you supply is what you get so they are quite crude compared to injectors and being able to vary duty rates for any given rpm/load/tps.

I think the extra mapping time is worth the trouble.Hows this for a third idea....leave the injectors on but fit throttle bodies just as air metering devices,still needs MS but im guessing would do wonders for throttle response etc and of course would look uber cool.

[podge]

ok a quick update on this subject will be getting my megasquirt vsoon so heres how it will all go together
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/12/3.gif

the coilpacks are the ford type but controled straight from the squirt
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/12/129.jpg

as it all goes together ill keep this thread updated

[Paul Woods]

thats superb podge mate,i'll be going this route too so please keep us posted on any progress/info you find,i'll be following your footsteps with the MS! :thumbsup:

[adamh]

highly testicle :) . have a spare Output there aswell :twisted:

[biteme]

I thought the MS was only able to control fuelling, can it now control ignition?

Last thing I need now is more choices lol - I think it's good for the price from what I've seen, but can it compete with the commercial standalone efforts?

[podge]

yep it can control fuel and ignition and if your wondering if the processor can keep up one fella has got one on his racing jetski and runs 30.000 rpm no problems and never misses a beat also alot cheaper than most of the others i know one of the others has a 40x40 map capability whareas the squirt has 12x12 but dont think just cos the numbers are higher its better its just bragin rights i mean if theres no nead for extra points at 30.000 rpm i dont think we need more at our levels

[Paul Woods]

oh yes MS has the ability to do a lot more than folk give it credit for,its got a bodged up ecu image though....i think its class.

[GaryA]

Any chance of someone on the forum maybe explaining what the different versions are and what they do as it's totally :icon_conf me !
Keep looking at the kits on ebay , i just know one evening i'm going to click the buy it now :roll:

[podge]

best place to look is the megasquirt website they have a complete forum whare all is explained a post (especialy from me) could never do it justice

[Paul Woods]

ive been ordering my EDIS-8 system from the US,a bit ahead of time i know but i thought a bit of parts collecting never hurts! Ive also found this excellent page that explains how to set up the EDIS-8 onto an 8 cylinder engine so it will run....interesting reading! Im going to order a megasquirt V3 soon to run the v8.

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/EDIS.htm

Also this company... http://www.performanceleads.co.uk/ will make custom high performance HT lead sets that will run from the Ford coilpacks to the plugs for about £50.

[MegatronUK]

Paul, when you wire up the EDIS system and the crank pickup & TPS (or are you going MAP?) be bloody sure that the cables are all top notch and shielded; we had problems getting the EDIS system to run nicely with Megajolt on the kit car.

It seems that the Ford EDIS setup is very sensitive to poor earths, voltage spikes and RF interference when it's not used with the original ECU. We were getting nasty spikes and clipping on the runtime display (which is tres tres cool, btw!) - I think it will mean ripping off all the original Ford wiring and fitting new stuff.

[AlunJ]

Slightly off topic I know, but will be putting in an order for my MS on monday evening :thumbsup:Finally got the funds to sort out a good chunk of the evil 1600 project.

Willl be test-fitting to a 4agze using the stock dizzy setup (gives a higher redline capability than edis4) and setting up on the dyno in college. Once it's nicely dialed in I can make a few changes to the engine setup and map from it there :mrgreen:

Anyone got a spare BOV lying around? Keep forgetting to pick one up to finish off my turbo gear lol

[Paul Woods]

hi john cheers for that,when you say original ecu do you mean the edis module? im not relying on the MS for the basic operation of the system,it will have 10* of normal spark advance just using the edis 8 module and VR sensor on 36 tooth wheel,its only when you add the MS that you get extra spark advance (eg from 10* - 25*),of course i will add the MS once it runs at 10*.....but will i see this interference still?

[MegatronUK]

Yep Paul, it's the wiring to the EDIS module itself - even when running at the fixed 10 deg. with just the module itself ('limp' mode) its rather sensitive to interference on the lines from the pickup and to the coilpack(s).

I don't know whether Ford route the wiring on the Escort/Mondeo/Fiesta etc so that it's as far away from possible sources of interference, but it seems that when you move it, or use non-original wiring, it becomes quite susceptible to noise.

We tried three setups with our megajolt kit:

Megajolt, EDIS, bike-carbs (slightly tweaked 7000rpm 3d map): base timing was jumping around at idle (8-24 deg.) and no.2/no.4 spark was always poor

EDIS (no PIP/SAW/TPS, so in 'limp mode' with static 10 deg. of timing) , bike-carbs: timing jumping around (not as much as with MJ), poor spark on 2/4

Sierra dizzy, spark amplifier, bike carbs: Runs great!

The TPS was calibrated spot on, new plugs and leads, 3 different coil packs, correct values for static testing of the wiring... but when running you could see the spikes on the runtime display from the noise on the lines.
I've since found that it's quite a common problem when using the EDIS system with either MSnS or MJ (same principle) - the wiring, earths and voltage levels are absolutely critical or it's absolute bobbins. I'll dig out the test values that you should get when it's wired up correctly....

Although the side affect of this is that we can state that R1 slide carbs idle much, much better than 40DCOE's, even with a simple dizzy... with virtually no fettling needed at all :)

[Paul Woods]

thats excellent info john,so basically i need to shield the VR pickup wires to buggery with co-ax type windings around them acting as a noise filter,do you think that would work? obviously ford get around it somehow...

[OlberJ]

How did you lads get on with this, bought anything?

Thinking about having a go on the V6 but not sure how to go about it. Does that all important Ford EDIS only come in 4 or 8 guise?

[weegaz22]

How did you lads get on with this, bought anything?

Thinking about having a go on the V6 but not sure how to go about it. Does that all important Ford EDIS only come in 4 or 8 guise?


also comes in 6 cyl guise olber, convieniently named EDIS 6, was used on the scorpio 24v cosworth i think

[Paul Woods]

podge and i both have 36 tooth pickup rings for the crank,its not necessary to go ford edis,in fact thats now seen as the worse way to do it as the megasquirt can be built with its own coil drivers so its all controlled onboard....so all you need are the pickup ring,some coilpacks (ford wasted spark) and the MS :thumbsup:

[OlberJ]

So we're still talking ~£300 in parts?