Over fuelling issue with mk1 V6

[donnac]

Hi guys,

Looking for advice with my mk1 v6, the other day when starting the car I thought the car had a louder higher revving tic over than normal, once I set off it seemed to run fine.
I used it to go to work the next day and it cut out under 2k revs and wouldn't restart.
Left it for 10mins and it started again but after a couple of miles it cut out and wouldn't start.

Got recovered by the AA, who checked the fuel pump and spark, they initially thought it was the fuel pump however there is fuel coming through.

One of the ht leads was broken (possibly AA man) so bought new leads yesterday and the plugs were black with petrol so replaced them too.

Started it up and it's a hesitant start and after 2k revs the exhuast has black smoke and a fuel smell.

I turned the car off and tried to restart and the car would not turn over again, left for 20 mins and it fires up again but with the same symptoms.

Any ideas what to check next?

Don't think the car wants to leave me, I've had no issues in the year I've had it and then the night before it's being sold it does this :)

Thanks guys

Donna

[cdwood2010]

All cars are female, and therefore unpredictable. :)

Couple of ideas in no real order.....


Oxygen sensor faulty, possibly wire off? Theres one on each exhaust bank
Throttle posistion sensor faulty / unplugged
Air getting in somewhere, throwing the mixture out
Dizzy worked loose / cracked cap
AFM stuck open, pull the air filter off and check for movement. (pretty sure a 3VZ has a wee fit if you push the flap open manually when its running).


These are guesses, things i would start with after plugs and leads.

It will also be worth pulling diagnotic codes, crude but insightful. All you need is a paper clip.

Also i have many spare bits, and accept beer, chocolate and hugs as fair trade.

Chris.

[headcase]

Check air flow meter , it can get stuck slightly open giving it a rich mixture .:-)

[donnac]

as usual guys many thanks for your help. We are also going to check the cold start injector as it maybe faulty and we will check the other fault possibility from the suggested lists.
Thanks again and will keep you updated on how we get on, cheers Donna

[cdwood2010]

You can Prob disconect the cold start plug, see if that solves it. I have spares, but I think that part might be generic.

Make a list, check the easy stuff first.

C.

[adamh]

i had a similar problem , where it would cut out when you slowed down, that was on a hot few day trip to europe. I replaced the leads and plugs and coil, with new items, and added a thermostatic engine bay fan and it never gave me the same problem again. has the fan been running when it cuts out? its always smelled rich due to the over pressure from the turbo pump and the mk1a's inability to deal with fumes. tps should be perfect , although its worth checking/reseting, instructions in the binder. there are some very thick earth straps on the engine, -> front lower crossmember chasis rail, and one on the gearbox/head, check they are still attached/have continuity. there is an afm earth check it has continuity etc to chasis. safc might be worth removing/decommisioning if you cannot get to the root cause , its not difficult, the soldered joins are under the black tape , shrink wrapped, you could easily remove them. ecu has a seperate earth next to it also, check it.

[donnac]

I spoke to a Toyota specialist and he reckons it is an ignition problem. Any ideas? I am willing to try a new coil and any other part of the ignition system. Is there something called an ignition module? Cheers

[cdwood2010]

Did you check the above stuff yet?

C.

[adamh]

there is nothing called an ignition module, you have a coil, resistor pack, dizzy/cap, leads, plugs. the only thing that was not new was the resistor pack, and the rotor arm inside the dizzy

[donnac]

Hi, yip we did and they seem okay. What is the ECM? and is it worth checking? The car is at my cousins yard and he has limited knowledge and equipment and it looks like I will have to pay £60 for another garage to uplift it and sort the issue but this bloke was adamant it was an ignition issue. Any ideas around the ignition side of things and is it worth changing the ignition control module and coil. When we tested the spark plug for sparking it seems to be strong for a second and then a weak spark thereafter like a small blink, I hope this symptom helps. Thanks

[adamh]

ecm = ecu. what you could do is find someone with a another camry ecu and swap it out. you could try another coil, chances are its not the coil, cannot believe it fried a coil in less than 1500 miles.

[adamh]

guys, does anyone have a spare 3vz V6 ecu which is 'not in use' and you know is working that you could send up to donna , i will pay all costs inc ecu + post + return, chris you have any in the garage?

[thomp1983]

She can borrow mine and my coil/ignitor, assume it's a 3vz? sort me an address and ill next day them tomorrow

chris

[adamh]

seems like all chris's have stocked parts!, thats a very good offer chris. :praise2:

[racerADS]

Good man Chris.

[cdwood2010]

Chris's are all awesome by default.

I have a couple of spare ecus, if that solves it.

Coil packs (coil and igniter) are a bit rarer.

C.

[Torero]

I have one of ChrisW ECUs in my boot. He lent it to me as a backup and it's not needed.

@ChrisW - if it's easier Chris I can get this sent up to Donna.

[donnac]

Hi, that would be great as we could try it.
Thanks Donna

[cdwood2010]

Hi Donna,

I can send you an ecu to try if you pm me some details.

I don't have a spare coil pack though sorry.

C.

[thomp1983]

im happy to send coil and ecu I don't need them for a couple of weeks, again just need the address details

[donnac]

Hi - That would be a great help. The car is at my cousins yard and I have just come back from it as we had been reading the massive book and expert technical notes Adam had left and it has shown us how to test the Volume Air Flow Meter and we tested it with an ohmmeter and it looks like it is faulty as two of the four tests proved this. Fully Closed and partially open it was working then at a different setting fully open and fully closed was not working so we are going to try another AFM if we can manage to get one and we think it could be this that is causing the over fuelling issue. The first test with the V5 and E1 terminal shows 1 which is normal when fully closed and the next test partially open is V5 and E2 which is the 2nd last pin to the right end and E2 is the third pin from left to right and that was normal but V5 and E2 fully closed and fully open were faulty as the last one had a 0 resistance reading when it should read 20 to 1200. We reckon this is our over fuelling so it is worth testing another AFM on it. Does anyone have an AFM I could try and buy? Cheers

[thomp1983]

again you can borrow mine to test but finding another will be fun, don't think there's any spare in the club as there a bit rare and tend to stay with the engines

[thomp1983]

coil, ecu and afm being collected tomorrow should arrive Monday

[donnac]

coil, ecu and afm being collected tomorrow should arrive Monday

That's fantastic, thanks to Chris and everyone on the thread who has helped so far,

Many beers due to TB at jae :)

[thomp1983]

any luck with this donna?

[IanC]

any luck with this donna?
x 2 :icon_smile:

[donnac]

any luck with this donna?

Hi Chris,

Once again that's for the loan of the parts, I know you spoke to Steve last night and we will arrange for the bits to be sent back to you this weekend if you need them asap,

Im not sure what the progress has been tbh, its now at a garage and I think a car sparky is going to have a look at it, not sure whats been tried since last time and both of us have been flat out with work so its been forgotten about :(

Ian, I can assure you as soon as I know whats happening I will let you know,

Thanks for you help and patience guys,

Cheers

Donna

[donnac]

Hi Folks
Finally got to the route of the problem with two mechanics and an auto spary man treble checking the A-Z and its the fuel pump!!! I have a silly question, is it a Camry fuel pump or an MR2 fuel pump in the V6 conversion as away to order one tomorrow. I am annoyed at the time its taken as the AA man advised me it was a fuel pump issue away back weeks ago and the first mechanic said it wasnt but I now know it is. I have been amazed with all the support from everyone on the site and a special thanks to Chris as I will now be sending the parts back as I should have the car back running on Wednesday. A special thnaks to Paul Woods and the previous owner Adam who have been great with me. It is a great club and you should all be proud to be part of it. Many thanks Donna and Steve

[cdwood2010]

Good news.

Depends what Adam fitted, but i imagine he upgraded it from the stock Mk1 one.

I've got Mk2 and Camry ones here if you need.

c.

[adamh]

it was an mr2 turbo pump, 2nd hand.

[donnac]

Thanks guys. Does anybody have a second hand Mk2 turbo fuel pump for sale as I would be willing to pay express postage and next day delivery thourgh paypal. I ahve found this one on ebay should I buy it?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toyota-MR2-MK2-Turbo-Fuel-Pump-Mr-MR2-Used-Parts-1989-1999-/291221462091?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Car+Make%3AToyota%7CModel%3AMR+2%7CPlat_Gen%3 AMK+II&hash=item43ce26dc4b#ht_1318wt_1162

Thanks

[thomp1983]

mr-mr2's a decent seller ive had a few bits from him but for less money you could have a new walbro type pump they need a little bit of fiddling to fit but nothing difficult and most come with a 12 month warranty

[cdwood2010]

You only actually need the pump part anyway. The tank has to come off, ideally it needs to be on a lift as its a twat to do on the floor.

c.

[jon.sole]

Is the symptom that is still over-fuels? I can't understand how a faulty fuel pump could cause over-fuelling?

[donnac]

mr-mr2's a decent seller ive had a few bits from him but for less money you could have a new walbro type pump they need a little bit of fiddling to fit but nothing difficult and most come with a 12 month warranty

Thanks, do you have a link to the Walbro pump?

Cheers

Donna

[donnac]

Thanks, do you have a link to the Walbro pump?

Cheers

Donna

Got a pump tonight so fingers crossed its all running tomorrow

[thomp1983]

Did the pump fix it?

[donnac]

Still not fitted, hopefully know tomorrow

[donnac]

Well, feel like a bit of an idiot.

Pump fitted and running great again. Wish id listened to the AA about a month ago when the diagnosed this. Contact made with the 1st dibs buyer so hopefully we can get the sale completed, otherwise I will return the other PM's from interested parties.

Thanks once again to Chris for sending spares up, will see you at the weekend to return the parts and thanks to everyone on the site for all the help and advice. Awesome forum

Cheers

Donna and Steve

[thomp1983]

congratulations at least it's resolved and not become another fallen by the way side or left in a shed to rot

[Torero]

congratulations at least it's resolved and not become another fallen by the way side or left in a shed to rotCompletely agree Chris :thumbsup:

Good to see it sorted Donna.

[donnac]

Hi Guys
Guess what? It worked with new fuel pump for 5 minutes but cut off again and its getting a spark and the fuel pump has been tested and working fine. Could the temperature sensor stop it from firing over? Any ideas folks as back to square one?
Cheers
Donna

[Jiff Lemon]

Fuel pump continues to run? Or is something knocking the fuel pump relay out?

[thomp1983]

a failed temp sensor would make it run rich I doubt it'd stop it starting. they can be tested with a multimeter. back to the start what is the exact problem? turns over but fails to start? also how many times has it been started left running a few minutes then stopped and the same repeated? it's possible it's flooded

[cdwood2010]

Back to basics.

If you hard wire the fuel pump to be always on, does it run then?

If you remove the fuel return and stick it in a fuel can, with the pump hard wired does it continue to pump fuel?

c.

[DEREK]

Hi Everyone I had a similar problem when I first try to start my v6 it wood run for 5min and then stop leave it cool down and it would start again so i phone God And told me it was Earth strapped connecting in the wrong place , done the fix and it run ok ever since. The reason it run for only five minutes was the temperature sensor when it got hot there was no
Earth so check the earth on top of the engine.???? I hope this helps

Derek.

[a6905608]

Is this still for sale? I'm interested but seem unable to contact the seller!!
Simon

[adamh]

Is this still for sale? I'm interested but seem unable to contact the seller!!
Simon

current owner is donna.c

sorry chris, nuked your posts by mistake! i was trying to copy all of the other posts into this thread to keep them all in one place.

Donna, real sorry to hear you haven't it fixed yet, the last mechanic didnt sound very good.
you should call pall direct @ woodsport.org , telephone. if your having trouble private messaging.

let me know what the part is that failed and i will pay the costs. Adam

[donnac]

Hi Adam, wouldn't dream of having you pay for the repairs but if you get a chance to speak to Paul please ask him if I can still bring the car down,

Thanks Donna

[Jiff Lemon]

Hes down with manflu at the moment Donna, probably why your getting no response.

[Paul Woods]

Donna i've had no internet for nearly 2 months, and a lot going on with a hellish house move and a garage full of work bursting to the seams.

Lets get the car to me in early 2015 and i will sort it for you.

[donnac]

Hi Paul, thats fantastic thanks,

Have a great Christmas everyone

[donnac]

Thought I would give you guys an update on the mk1. Thanks to Paul Woods and Adamh the car is now running perfectly again. We took the car on a trailer to Paul this afternoon and in no time he had narrowed down some potential bits to check and hey presto it ran. Couldn't believe it after it sitting off the road for so long with my "mechanic".

Paul is an absolute mr2 genius and we are both so grateful for his help as we were ready to give up and walk away from the car and the mr2 scene.

It was a 7.5 round trip but worth every mile and has really given us the buzz back for the car.

Thanks to thomp for sending us the parts to try (sorry for delay In return) and to everyone who has posted trying to help us. Steve and are hopeless with mechanical stuff but clubs like this one are a god send.

thanks

Donna :)

[thomp1983]

Great news, so what was it?

[snowtigger]

Yep spill the beans what was up with it, a multitude of small niggles problems or just obvious stuff?

[Paul Woods]

Bad AFM that was not allowing the ECU to power up, the ECU itself had an EFI temp sensor internal fault (no amount of sensors or wiring checks would work), fitted another ECU and the error code was gone. One earthing point that needed relocating and an engine so badly flooded i had to remove/dry all 6 plugs, start the engine with the fuel pump disabled and yes there was enough fuel just in the cylinders for it to splutter into life, reconnect pump and it fired up on 3 cylinders then picked up onto 4,5 and 6 slowly.

It took around 2 hours in total, mostly dealing with incompetance issues from the other mechanic, what they had been doing with it all this time i just don't know.

Anyway all sorted now.

[jon.sole]

If the faulty ECU hasn't been binned, could I have it to see if I can repair it? A temp sensor fault should be relatively easy to track down and fix.....

[snowtigger]

So you didn't do the acetylene torch down the plug holes my boss did once on a flooded pinto engine lol.
Pop bang PPP bang bang pop mad as a March hare.
Cool thanks for clearing that up mr woods perhaps the mechanic didn't have the tools or knowledge that you have acquired doing over 100 swops and building these great cars.

[adamh]

good job paul, added to next years secret santa xmas list :sndmail:

I do remember the afm plug was not perfect in clipping in, but it ran smooth when i had it.

the only issue i had was original coil dying, so i put a new oem coil, and new bosch leads, and added an engine lid fan kit to help the heatsoak on hot day, 32deg+, also added a large alluminiumbulkhead heatshield with louvres to protect the fuel tank from heating .

i had a feeling it was the ecu .....

which earth did you move? , and for what reason. thanks.

cheers chris for sending up initial parts which turns out didnt get used in trouble shooting just got tossed around a garage with speculation.


donna please bill me what you paid for ecu, i want to do something for you you should not have had this experience.

[Paul Woods]

The ECU was free Ads, as was my time, i only charged for the AFM which was the only one i had from the Rav6.

[cdwood2010]

The ECU was free Ads, as was my time, i only charged for the AFM which was the only one i had from the Rav6.
I've got a Mk2 turbo one here Paul if you can do anything with that and the fubar one, I know the 3vz ones are getting tricky to source.

C.

[Paul Woods]

Turbo ones are totally different i'm afraid Chris, they work opposite way to a 3vz, one works 0-5v the other 5-0v.... plus there is no COR ground latching switch on the turbo ones, thanks anyway.

[cdwood2010]

Turbo ones are totally different i'm afraid Chris, they work opposite way to a 3vz, one works 0-5v the other 5-0v.... plus there is no COR ground latching switch on the turbo ones, thanks anyway.
I knew that silly sausage!

Wasn't sure if you could make / fix one out of two. I've got a 3vz one but its kinda my spare for testing, yours if you really need it if you've beached the Rav6.

I will need a photo of you in that négligé I bought you.

:)

[Paul Woods]

Oh right, well i'll just make an AFM out of what i have here if i get stuck, i do have a few dodgy ones that people have taken the lids off in the quest for 1000bhp more.....