View Full Version : Rotrex Supercharged Beams
Based on the precedent of mr Angelo "MANDALAY" in Aus, I plan to work through supercharging the beams. Plans at the moment are foggy but parts are available, and I have a wealth of knowledge on tap from M, as his own beams supercharger pumps out some filthy 400hp+.
Parts I have:
Rotrex c30-94
SC mounting bracket
Air inlet pipe
Intercooler
Exit pipe from inter cooler (w. BOV flange, no BOV though)
Oil reservoir
Engine mount to hold inter cooler
Belt tensioner and pulley
540cc injectors
I know I will be needing to look into a significant list of parts besides these. A new crank pulley. I will also need to move the alternator from the stock SW20 beams redtop position to the position it is in when fitted in the Celica, allowing the SC. I will also need an ECU that has VVTi control, a pipe to the Rotrex inlet, an oil cooler (Setrab?) for the SC, the fuel pump for good measure really, and much more besides I am sure...
Comments and concerns welcomed!!
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/845/pin452.png
:D
Oh, and this is my car:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2013/05/411.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2013/05/412.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2013/05/413.jpg
Paul Woods
27-05-2013, 07:48
Nice Mk2 that, i had the same wheels on mine, can i ask what benefit supercharging the Beams has over supercharging a 3s-gte unit? I would have thought the lower compression and fact it's already built for boost would be a better option? I can't imagine he hit 400bhp on stock internals/ CR?
Mandalays work is awesome, i've followed his builds for years.
Tommytank
27-05-2013, 07:53
Oh mama, that is quite special.
Lovely motor, supercharging is great though I think you would struggle on stock internals to get 400bhp reliably. Having done a supercharged 3S-FE I can say it is more difficult than you probably think it will be. I would be aiming for 20-30% power increase on stock internals to be honest.
ECU will probably be a headache, does the beams use a MAP or a MAF sensor out of interest.
If I'm not wrong the beams use a map sensor
Nice Mk2 that, i had the same wheels on mine, can i ask what benefit supercharging the Beams has over supercharging a 3s-gte unit? I would have thought the lower compression and fact it's already built for boost would be a better option? I can't imagine he hit 400bhp on stock internals/ CR?
Mandalays work is awesome, i've followed his builds for years.
His work really is incredible yeah.
You're surely right Paul, about using the 3S-GTE being more sensible. However this kind of came about from the opposite angle: I love the Beams, and I love the tech they employed then, boosting low-down torque and modernising the 3S-GE. The engine is incredible for a 2L 4cyl for the torque it pushes you around with. As such, it seemed like it was the right decision in theory to supercharge it. They have been turbocharged before, too, but frankly I'd rather stay NA and use ITBs or go for the progressive power of a charger. It is high compression, but will be able to run reasonably low boost at that compression without forging. MANDALAY's car is fully forged. He's spent an obscene amount on it, and rebuilt every inch of it. He is an absolute wealth of information on the Beams having done so much to his.
To clarify - I am not going for 400hp! I'd need a bigger hairdryer for that for a start, probably, or perhaps pulley mods could force it to push that much. Anyway, like you say, it would have to be forged for that. I believe M's car runs about 26psi, through a larger charger unit. I plan to run very minimal amounts to begin with - 8psi or something. The charger can provide 15.5psi but I would forge before that and lower compression.
Thanks for the comments guys.
Lovely motor, supercharging is great though I think you would struggle on stock internals to get 400bhp reliably. Having done a supercharged 3S-FE I can say it is more difficult than you probably think it will be. I would be aiming for 20-30% power increase on stock internals to be honest.
ECU will probably be a headache, does the beams use a MAP or a MAF sensor out of interest.
Have you got a build thread on the 3S-FE supercharger?
Word on the street is that a free-flowing exhaust and an ECU on the redtop nets another 10hp. I don't trust it, it's only an exhaust, but allegedly so. 20-30% would lift me to ballpark 250hp with no lag and combined with the VVTi, plenty of fun for now I am certain.
ECU and wiring is the only difficult part really, the rest is fabricating brackets and a tensioner though the beams already has these available and a bit of plumbing. IIRC the magesquirt has an ecu already developed for the beams, may be worth looking into. Also on stock internals your only looking at 5psi reliably and 7psi max. On forged it depends on the CR but have only seen up to 12psi. Getting 400hp is a big ask. The only real benefit is the low down torque, you can still get decent boost pressure on 10.5:1 CR and the beams will take it. The big thing to take note of is that you can't adjust the boost pressure by simply winding a valve in and out (unless its a bloody big one on the intake pipework) so make sure the internals and mapping are up to whatever boost pressure you pick to start with.
Supercharging a 3sgte would be much easier but there would be little point as the ct20 does a better job and is massively cheaper than a rotrex kit. The beams pretty much has it all supported too, Altezza owners have been doing it for years. My main beef is it's damn expensive to do, if it were a cost effective option then it would make more sense but those centrifugal chargers do command a premium price tag.
Have you got a build thread on the 3S-FE supercharger?
Word on the street is that a free-flowing exhaust and an ECU on the redtop nets another 10hp. I don't trust it, it's only an exhaust, but allegedly so. 20-30% would lift me to ballpark 250hp with no lag and combined with the VVTi, plenty of fun for now I am certain.
It used an Eaton M45 and didnt really work. It can be done but your better off reading this: http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=35574
Solved a lot of the niggles from the FE builds but you still need a stand alone ECU to run it.
Have you got a build thread on the 3S-FE supercharger?
Here we go... a blast from the past....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?3752-Goldy-s-Mk2-Supercharger-Thread
knightrous
27-05-2013, 23:45
can i ask what benefit supercharging the Beams has over supercharging a 3s-gte unit? I would have thought the lower compression and fact it's already built for boost would be a better option? I can't imagine he hit 400bhp on stock internals/ CR?
I would say it's due to the way the Rotrex delivers it's power, it's a progressive increase from low rpm to high rpm (peak RPM @ redline). It might only be making 3-4psi around 3000-4000rpm, which is going to feel a lot better in a high compression motor then a low compression motor. Mandalay always comments that the Rotrex makes the BEAMS drive like it's naturally aspirated with it's power delivery, but feels like driving a motor double it's size :)
ERRRR MA GERRRD.
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1734/p41145566798557.jpg
I am so excited to get started on this. That said it will be a long time cooking. I am going to be careful and methodical and careful again. To clarify plans, I will not be forging internals at present, and I plan to run the Rotrex at full capacity on a reasonably sized pulley. The pulley would normally provide about 16psi which would blow my engine to pieces. However, fitting a restrictor to the inlet means I can limit the peak pressure, enabling excellent use of the Rotrex and allowing it to spool early. This comes from M's research and has been really interesting to read about. It is the alternative to fitting a larger pulley as I mentioned, which comes with significant disadvantages.
And the powdercoated version:
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1046/sdc126733340773.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2436/sdc126723312342.jpg
MANDLAY first used a C-30-94 and got 335 HP to the wheels,, but a year ago he got a C-38-91 and now is over 400 hp to the wheel, with a cat and full exhaust.
Paul Woods
29-05-2013, 07:14
I can't remember from his build thread, is Mandalay stll using the S54?
He certainly was before he swapped chargers. I've read two thirds of it am haven't encoutered a swap to an e153.
Have you built a charger before Paul? I will definitely be needing people to ask advice from.
Sounds like an interesting project.. Don't see any reason why you can't get a sold 300bhp and ~200lb/ft out of a relatively low-boost, high (ish) compression set-up like this.
The critical thing in using force induction with higher compression engines is ensuring it is mapped correctly, so ensure you put a good amout of effort and cash aside to ensure you have this side sorted. It will ensure you get the most from the engine set-up, and that its reliable and actually drives well.
Something like a Link G3 ECU will work well with this engine, and has been used before to good result. Think base maps are also available from the likes of Ryan @2bartuning and I think Rogue used them also.
I've heard virtually standard BEAMS 3S-GE's running a Link G3, but properly mapped was running around ~220bhp. Employ some traditional NA tuning aspects like headwork / porting (although the head design is already quite good from factory apparently). You'll need to confirm how well the existing cams and VVTi system will work with supercharging - forced induction does not always go well with alot of valve overlap common on high output NA engines.
I can't remember from his build thread, is Mandalay stll using the S54?
He swapped to the E153 with the stronger/upgraded axles and such when he stepped up to the C 38-91. He also used a larger diameter exhaust and cat, 3 inch if I remember correctly.
dgh938peg
29-05-2013, 16:40
He certainly did swap to an E153.... bought it brand new....!!!!! Must be nice to have that kind of disposable cash :thumbsup: (i wish)
Paul Woods
29-05-2013, 18:24
I've supercharged several V6 engines but never a 3s, same theory i suppose.
Does anyone know what power level Mandalay reached on the S54? Just for my own peace of mind.
snowtigger
29-05-2013, 18:28
I bet it was around the 325/350bhp point lol.
knightrous
30-05-2013, 06:23
I believe Mandalay's setup was punching out 251RWKW before he decided to go for the bigger Rotrex and did a drive train swap at the same time.
Paul Woods
30-05-2013, 07:04
Thanks, if i got this right 251RWKW=336BHP at the wheels, + 15% drivetrain loss would be 386BHP at the fly.... so unless i have my maths horribly wrong he upgraded and only put 14BHP more through the E153?
He doesn't care much for figures so doesn't actually announce them that often. The car is higher than that now though. As I mentioned it is well over 20psi.
knightrous
31-05-2013, 00:22
When he went to the E153, the plan was to shoot for over 300RWKW.
As synXero said, he's a very quiet guy and doesn't post up everything as it happens. Some of his forum posts get uploaded 6 mths after he did the work :)
Paul Woods
31-05-2013, 07:07
I'm not doubting his figures or work at all, just curious as to what level he pushed the S54 to before upgrading for my own project, i've personally taken the S54 to 300bhp with supercharged V6's so was wondering if he had gone higher.
Can't take it as gospel that he did this on an S54, but this supercharger kit (mine, the Rotrex C30-94) is good for 350rwhp allegedly, "With a 3 inch line OEM air box and cat still has 350 RWHP A/C IS ALSO POSSIBLE" (Mandalay).
Assuming that he knows that from having done it, and that he changed the S54 for the E153 when he changed the charger, one might posit you could run 350rwhp through the S54...
Alternatively I could just ask him.
snowtigger
31-05-2013, 12:28
It will be fine mate just don't go ragging it in 1st gear save that for 2nd as the 2gr will try and twist it in knots in first gear, I think after 2 years of abuse the e153 on my car will need a rebuild next year as it hates going from 5th to 4th when slowing down.
The only way your going to find the limit of the s box Paul is if some one else has destructed there's at a certain bhp/torque/rpm and then done it again at the same bhp/torque/rpm, then we may have a standard to say the s gearbox will take X before it mangles it self.
You could always be that guy and rag the tits of it round the yard to find out?
I think with your driving it should be fine, now back on topic lets see this supercharged beams engine of Mandalays post a link to the thread it's been ages for a good engine read.
www.mr2.com/forums/beams-owners-group/Toyota-MR2-33226-supercharger.html
It gets interesting early at about p3, and continues strong throughout building interest as it goes.
A bit like a Rotrex!
snowtigger
31-05-2013, 17:26
Thank you that's tonight's reading sorted.
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2069/010mfi.jpg
Over $9000 of equipment new.
Pricey game.
snowtigger
07-06-2013, 17:02
Wtf? I could build a 2gr low comp turbo supercharger v6 for that price, you must have a serious beams fetish lol.
Damn dude, impressive! I do love those "little" Rotrex units but yea, I couldn't pay that much. I'm just hoping they make the proper dirty noise and whine like a 2 year old who can't have sweets!
$9000, so about £5800......................................
You didn't actually pay that did you? http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2013/06/1.gif (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/leewa79/media/Smileys/no.gif.html)
No I didn't pay that!
The man I bought it from did :)
Ps if a turbo is a boost snail I dub the Rotrex a boost... urchin?
Urchin?? Not sure bout that one... Rotrex is kinda like a fat snail, or 2 snails sharing the same shell..... Conjoined snail :confused:
PS to clarify, this should see me about 7psi without any strain on any component, which will translate into approximately 250-260hp. As far as I am concerned that's enough, but if I wanted it the charger would run 15.5psi which I guess would be ballpark 300!
260hp with a Rotrex power delivery will be really exciting IMO.
So in a few days the supercharger will be in my hands and I will be spinning the rotors like a little boy.
I'm thinking of the other bits I will need. I will have 540cc injectors included, but no uprated fuel pump... What should I go with? I also need to sort myself out with an oil cooler, as the Rotrex operates on its own oil supply and system.
What would a stock ECU do if it saw positive pressure...?
Paul Woods
13-06-2013, 07:09
Your Beams should be Maf sensor driven, so fitting a charger will simply draw more air past the Maf, i don't think you have a Map sensor anywhere on that engine so the ECU will never see positive pressure, even if it did have a Map sensor it wouldn't be able to see boost anyway, basically you'd be screwed without going standalone.
You can run up to 5 or 6 psi on any Maf driven engine and the ECU should be able to provide enough injector duty to allow fuel for that, anything more and you will be maxing the injectors out, this is the one good advantage of Maf over Map.
Ahhhh. See I have been told to convert to MAP a few times now and really I just wondered if I might get away with the MAF.
I have speculated with others about low-psi on the stock ECU. I know you can't guarantee anything but would it run? Obviously the ECU wouldn't get the most out of the boost at all, and no doubt being OBDII it would throw out a million errors, but if the MAF sensor could cope with the charger that would enable the project to be more progressive and less off-the-road-for-two-weeks, and of course negate the trailering to tuners'...
Talking to Patrick at Rogue Motorsport midweek next week, who have of course used the Beams at great length, and have supercharged 3S-GEs as well. Hopefully that will be fruitful! I know they have turbo'd a Beams.
I wouldn't see why you would have a problem if you kept the boost low enough for the injectors to cope until you get a standalone ECU to play with. On stock internals I wouldn't be wanting to put much more than 6 - 7psi through anyway.
Paul Woods
13-06-2013, 11:54
Ahhhh. See I have been told to convert to MAP a few times now and really I just wondered if I might get away with the MAF.
I have speculated with others about low-psi on the stock ECU. I know you can't guarantee anything but would it run? Obviously the ECU wouldn't get the most out of the boost at all, and no doubt being OBDII it would throw out a million errors, but if the MAF sensor could cope with the charger that would enable the project to be more progressive and less off-the-road-for-two-weeks, and of course negate the trailering to tuners'...
Like i said, because you have a Maf all you are doing is pulling more air past that, no positive pressure is seen anywhere except after the SC, but not by the ECU. All Maf sensors/ECU mapping has the extra "tuning" for more airflow, otherwise you'd be maxing out as a NA, imagine fitting a free flowing exhaust and maxing the Maf out and running lean..... manufacturers allow for extra width on the maps.
providing you keep the boost low (under 6psi at a guess) you should be ok, it will run, but you will need a wideband to be able to carefully monitor what is going on from day 1, at the slightest hint of lean running you need to back the boost off.
Awesome, thanks for the advice gents. Who do I send the bill to when my rods melt??
I will bear that wide band comment in particular importance. Keeping the stock ECU would be an interesting route but I just can't imagine it will cope with boost for an extended period... Maybe 1 or 2 psi but what's the point in that! Mind you I know nothing until I try it. Of course I can't feasibly control boost from inside the car either, so it's a larger pulley which necessitates a belt swap and so on. I'd like to get it right first time but I suspect that isn't possible in this game.
Would it theoretically be possible to run a supercharger with ITBs...? Not really for any reason other than the sound :icon_lol:
PS no comments on fuel pumps? I am of the mindset that a '98 fuel pump should probably be replaced regardless but I don't know whether to go to Toyota for a replacement, or to future proof and go Walbro or Supra. I also don't know what a stock ECU would do with an uprated pump. I did read somewhere that it doesn't make a shade of difference and that the pump can be changed without the ECU needing to know about it!
knightrous
13-06-2013, 15:42
Would it theoretically be possible to run a supercharger with ITBs...? Not really for any reason other than the sound
You can, however you will need a BOV between the SC and the throttle so when the throttles close, the SC doesn't try to build 50PSI against them. You will also loose the awesome throaty ITB sound because you will be jamming air into them with an SC.
IMHO, if your going to supercharge the BEAMS, one of the first things you should do is throw the stock ECU in the skip. If your going to put $9k worth of gear into this build, a proper ECU and tune is not to be skrimped on :)
To be honest I'm sure I could eek out another 10hp from the Beams just by fitting a standalone now. Supposedly a free-flowing exhaust makes quite a large difference on this engine. And I agree about the ECU and tune being absolutely necessary... I don't know of any reputable ECU tuners in Edinburgh at present though. I expect I will have to travel.
£85 Import VAT
...
:wordy:
You should be fine to run a maf sensor up to 5-6psi on the standard ecu if you have some information on your charger I have some formulas to calculate pulley ratios. It worked out spot on for mine.
My recommendation is to run the throttle body before the supercharger, it will save you a lot of hassle with setting up the Bov and oil recirculation. Running with the supercharger blowing into the throttle is far to noisy (see my youtube video!) and I had issues on throttle closing at high boost with pipes blowing off!
Man, that is awesome thanks. I will supply you the info you need... What do you need?
I am running the set up as-sold to me, as I know it's been run like this before and any blowing off (errr) issues will be explained and fixed by Mandalay's advice! I hope.
Its easy, output volume and pressure ratio are all you need.
http://www.rotrexsuperchargers.co.uk/Rotrex/images/products/superchargers/C30/Characteristicsc30.png
C30-94. Not sure if this is any aid. Will be searching for more.
This website is great and full of key info: http://www.rotrexsuperchargers.co.uk/Rotrex/pages/superchargers/prod_C30.html. Also clarifies cost as £1,485 new. Not a bad purchase on my count IMO.
One more bit of info I need, is the diameter of the drive pulley please!
I forgot you are using a rotary charger it should be fine blowing into throttle, I used a roots charger which displaces a constant amount of air per revolution. You can buy the VAG group recirculating bovs for cheap off fleabay.
That's pretty good, need to work out L/rev or CFM from kg/s and provide a target boost then you can work out what you need. If you can find an efficiency map that would be quite useful.
Flow chart. Might be similar to an efficiency map? :icon_lol:
http://www.rotrexsuperchargers.co.uk/Rotrex/images/products/superchargers/C30/fcc30-94small.png
The drive pulley being the pulley driving the charger ie the crank, or the actual supercharger's pulley? Quite simply target boost is 6-7psi as I have hopes that this will run on the stock internals.
This is a slightly stupid question which I am already fairly sure I know the answer to... If you have an engine and you pump 10psi through it from a conventional turbo setup, say giving you your 10psi at 4000rpm and let's say you make 300hp, will you make the same 300hp albeit at different rpm using a centrifugal supercharger that builds to the 10psi at redline?
Yep that's it, don't know what muppet called it a flow chart buts its normally referred to as an efficiency map for superchargers or a compressor map for turbo's.
The drive pulley is the crank pulley as this isn't the one you generally change. You normally change the supercharger pulley (Note pulley diameters available for the Rotrex in the table :wink: )
The calculation for pulley ratio is : Supercharger rpm at desired airflow / (supercharger internal gear ratio x engine redline rpm)
I know at least one of those things :icon_lol:
By desired airflow, do you mean desired air pressure? I am afraid a lot of this is still over my head :(
This is a much better copy of the map.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2013/06/188.jpg
Air flow (or volume) and air pressure are effectively the same, i.e more air volume into the combustion chamber is forced in under pressure. More pressure = more volume.
You can work out the pulley ratio with either value as in the end a ratio has no units. (sorry if that's a bit too mathsy, Ive been doing engineering for too long to explain it in leomunds properly)
I tend to use pressures as to me its a more useful unit to go along with other calculations but again it's a personal choice.
I understand all of that clearly and simply. It's just working out Goldy's sum and ensuring I've referenced the correct units!
Another Q actually - is it theoretically possible that my (or anyone's) boost piping would determine maximum possible boost? ie if my charger wants to put out 10 psi because I get the pulley calc wrong, is it possible or in fact recommendable to place a restrictor or restriction on the pipe work to deliberately strangle air flow to 7psi...?
It turned up today :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:
Obviously, I had to try spinning the impeller by turning the pulley by hand!
:wordy:
We now need pics, Calum.
Pics coming. The charger is such a satisfying object.
I am now deliberating "just doing this properly" and forging etc to run 15.5psi. Beside the massive power hike it will mean some degree of reassuredness from the internals, and also that the charger pulley I have is the correct size.
Decisions decisions.
Ps technically the Rotrex is a procharger, not a supercharger I hear.
Paul Woods
19-06-2013, 07:13
Now you're talking, for me i'd have to go all the way with it, you just know within six months of going low-blo you are going to want more.
I still can't help thinking a 3s-gte is a better platform for this though given it already has all the internals ready to go straight out of the box, but i can understand your reasons for using the Beams, plus it's a cool project.
Yeah exactly. 15.5psi through this setup translates, apparently, to 330hp at the wheels... :icon_lol:
There's a bit of plumbing work needed though. I need to get piping for intercooler -> throttle body, and from airbox -> Rotrex (although I have the piping that runs along beneath the plenum).
Besides this I will have to look into lower compression forged pistons, forged rods, an oil cooler (recommendations?) as well as mounting that (driver's side of engine bay is the plan), potentially getting a 6 'vee' crank pulley made up to prevent belt slip, the kit to relocate the alternator from where it is now to where it is on a Celica, corresponding belts, Rotrex gearbox oil, fuel pump, and an ECU system... At least, that's the beginning of the works.
knightrous
20-06-2013, 06:32
Ps technically the Rotrex is a procharger, not a supercharger I hear.
No, it's a supercharger.
Procharger is a brand name, just like Rotrex. It's like Lexan and Polycarbonate, Polycarbonate is the chemical, but everyone seems to think it's called Lexan (the brand name) :)
snowtigger
20-06-2013, 08:28
No, it's a supercharger.
Procharger is a brand name, just like Rotrex. It's like Lexan and Polycarbonate, Polycarbonate is the chemical, but everyone seems to think it's called Lexan (the brand name) :)
Same as the yanks mistake aluminum american trade name for aluminium the actual metal, drives me bonkers when there talking on yank tv shows about making stuff out of aluminum argh.
dgh938peg
20-06-2013, 08:36
Procharger ... Aluminum ... blah blah blah!
Enough waffle! More Pictures!!! :D
PICS PICS PICS!!
Should be able to get 9:1 3sge pistons and forged rods easily enough. Technically for the Black top Beams but should be a strait swap for any Beams engine.
Definitely going to need an intercooler as well with that much pressure.
dgh938peg
20-06-2013, 11:57
He's got that barrel charge cooler that goes in directly after the SC Chris :thumbsup:
Oops, thought that was a plenum :icon_redface:
Great stuff, get on then.......
Found a useful link again, read through this a few weeks ago but lost it......
May be of some use.
http://z4.invisionfree.com/lexusaltezzaclub/index.php?showtopic=7121&st=0
Same as the yanks mistake aluminum american trade name for aluminium the actual metal, drives me bonkers when there talking on yank tv shows about making stuff out of aluminum argh.
I learned that having done some reading the last few days. The actual mechanical classification is just 'centrifugal' supercharger like we've all installed in Forza before. The idea is that the impeller, driven by a planetary gearbox* driven by the crank, draws air into the charger - high velocity, low pressure. It is then forced through vanes which convert it into high pressure, lower velocity air. These centrifugal chargers make much less whine than alternative charger designs because they don't have the two complex worm-gear-like sections compressing air within a chamber, and have a much greater efficiency as a result of the different mechanism. They also provide pressurised air in a continuous flow rather than in segments as per a conventional twin-screw or roots type blower. That said, the overall supercharger model of operating off the crankshaft does still, of course, mean that the Rotrex will sap power from the engine in order to produce it. I was reading about a Rotrex rated to 400hp delivery sapping approx 100-150hp in use, meaning a net gain of 250hp. One can see why Mercedes dropped the origin Kompressor chargers for new Kompressors with turbochargers.
*Planetary gears... Check this shit out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicyclic_gearing
Yeah, using a straight forward intercooler immediately after the charger and piped into the TB. Piping is all very short. Intercooler mounts onto the block super simply, that's the best thing about this kit I've bought... The bracketry. The bracket that holds the supercharger is a work of art.
The fact it's all then been powdercoated OEM-style wrinkle black is just over and above.
Pics coming... I'll lay it all out diagrammatically so you can examine it!
I've been looking into Setrab oil coolers and they aren't as expensive as I thought they'd be. I'm thinking 13-row based on the advice I've been given. The Rotrex runs off its own independent oil supply and system so I have the oil filter (new), the oil canister (used, will have to find a place to mount it), the piping (used) and just the cooler to buy. Beside this it might be worth involving a fan to cool the cooler.
Cooler is cooler than cool.
snowtigger
20-06-2013, 16:19
I have talked to a few radiator guys about rads and over cooling can be just as bad because the water or oil is not reaching its operating temperature, so it can be a trick buisness.
An oil thermostat would let oil flow through when it got up to temp into the oil cooler, just an idea as there's pros and cons involved.
That's an interesting point man. The Rotrex people say that operating temperature of oil min/max for the C30 series chargers is -40°C (I'm not kidding) to +80°C. I suspect in Scotland it will never ever ever reach -40°C oil even on a cold day, cold start, cooler on. However I am struggling to get my head around oil temp and viscosity and how hot or cold my oil should be in order to maintain maximum charger health. The Rotrex as mentioned runs off an independent oil supply and system, so it is going to stay pretty cool with a cooler. On the other hand, with no cooler, it is going to get HOT. If I didn't install a cooler I'd want to install a gauge to keep an eye on it. Frankly I don't want to have to keep an eye on it, so I'd rather just install a cooler and feel relatively care free about it. It may be worth installing a small digital gauge or something, somewhere, so I do know how it's running.
Needless to say the kit is all about my greasy paws just now.
I've been fannying around with other elements of the car though. Fitting bucket seas, gobbling up audio kit, selling bits, fitting TOMs kit, gearbox oil changes and so on so on.
However, the supercharger sits at the corner of the room, awaiting its time to shine.
Contemplating two big options:
1. Sell the car, save cash, buy something newer, faster and with at least 2 more cylinders.
2. Complete the charger build and enjoy a northern hemisphere exclusive!
Investigating option 2, I think the parts I need in addition to what I have consist mostly of three things:
A. ECU. Probably a Link unit, G3 XLEM will work, or G4 Storm etc. etc., I'd budget around £1500 for mapping and ECU.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LINK-G4-STORM-ECU-Engine-Management-System-inc-2-5m-Loom-/290949762837?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item43bdf50f15
(First result I found - not where I would buy it I shouldn't think)
B. Oil cooler. Probably Setrab, 13 row. Around £100 but budget £150.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Setrab-Oil-Cooler-13-Row-330x99mm-CHEAP-DELIVERY-WORLDWIDE-universal-oil-cooler-/271158958081?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3f22555801
C. Piping. I need to pipe from barrel chargecooler to throttle body. I am not sure how to do this. Ideally I would want aluminium pipe pipe to do this, but where would I get it and how would I make it? I also need to pipe from airbox to Rotrex, and suspect I could get rubber piping to do this? But I have no idea where you get that kind of piping. Any ideas??
With C. I have a bit of an issue. The cast piping I have is 46mm ID, and I really don't think that will be large enough. Making up new pipe in 70mm diameter would be best I think, most builds I have read people don't announce the size of pipe they use, but a Rotrex'd CRX used 3" pipe from the intercooler (76mm) to the inlet.
Beside all of this, I have to consider forged pistons, adjusted compression ratio, uprated rods (use 3S-GTE rods probably), and COST! I am at that stage in a 'build' where you have to evaluate whether it's worth the money it will cost, or not.
I was considering replicating and modifying the supercharger bracket to allow 3S-GTE owners to fit Rotrex chargers, I don't know how many would be interested but I'd like to think a few!
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