View Full Version : GavDavs Mk2 2gr-fe swap
Paul Woods
29-08-2012, 19:38
The start of the latest 2gr engine fitment shipment begins with gavs Mk2, here it is on the lift with the rear hubs and subframe removed...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/08/371.jpg
Shortly after the engine gearbox was out...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/08/372.jpg
Empty engine bay...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/08/373.jpg
Fuel tank removed for Walbro pump install...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/08/374.jpg
At this point i spotted a fault, the infamous hose from hell above the fuel tank has the usual crack and is leaking coolant... i will need to address this before the tank goes back in.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/08/375.jpg
So not a bad days work, lots more to come.
gavsdavs
29-08-2012, 21:58
:hyper:
The transformation begins !
Paul Woods
06-09-2012, 07:27
Photobuckets been down for two days so unable to post pics.
I got the hose from hell repaired, this is better than renewing the whole pipe from Toyota as you will inherit the same fault in years to come, so i chop the infected section out and replace it with rubber.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/09/110.jpg
Next i fitted the new Walbro pump into the fuel pump carrier.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/09/111.jpg
Shortly after that the tank was refitted...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/09/112.jpg
Paul Woods
13-09-2012, 17:57
The 2gr had its cam covers removed for painting, never fails to amaze me how clean these motors are...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/09/229.jpg
New upgraded one piece oil line fitted...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/09/230.jpg
Rear cam cover painted and fitted, satin silver, Gav wants a factory finish.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/09/231.jpg
The engine is now 100% completed and detailed...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/09/232.jpg
gavsdavs
13-09-2012, 18:09
More nervous giggling. I think I need a lie down.
Beanyfelix
13-09-2012, 20:16
Looks great.
We'll both be grinning for months! Lol.
snowtigger
13-09-2012, 21:04
You wait till your first drive in it, take it easy for 50/100 miles let the ecu settle and yourself then open up the taps, boy will you have a big smile.
My fingers keep slipping off the keyboard.....perhaps it's coz I can't stop dribbling.
Telecaster
13-09-2012, 21:21
My fingers keep slipping off the keyboard.....perhaps it's coz I can't stop dribbling.
I know what you mean, I have prostate troubles too.
Have you tried a larger size incontinence pad? :smiliesign:
Paul Woods
09-10-2012, 19:19
Fidanza fitted...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/74.jpg
ACT clutch fitted....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/75.jpg
Rev3 gearbox fitted to engine and the whole lot installed...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/76.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/77.jpg
View from behind, supported shaft fitted, using new bearing from Toyota...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/78.jpg
Diesel Meister
09-10-2012, 19:33
Schweet.
gavsdavs
09-10-2012, 20:10
Drooool.
I have also noticed how CLEAN the engine bay is. Wahoooo !!
Have you finished the biscuit bundle I sent you :) ??
Gavs
Paul Woods
10-10-2012, 06:44
Yes i steam cleaned the bay, it was covered with congealed oil.
Lol the biscuit bundle lasted about 3 days, there's vultures in these parts!
dgh938peg
10-10-2012, 08:25
Ahhhh ... the old biscuit bundle trick! Nicely done Gav! I had a man in a big orange van deliver him a shit-load around 18 months ago ..... I think they lasted 3 days too!
kalsingh1
10-10-2012, 09:20
Looks fantastic, very tempting. You only live once right ? emhhhh
snowtigger
10-10-2012, 09:26
Yep you only live once and these 2 gr motors need to be in more mr2s so people can enjoy them more.
It never fails to give me a smile when I get in the car, once all the mechanical upgrades are done its on to the cosmetics eh.
kalsingh1
10-10-2012, 10:11
Is the car fairly easy to handle snowtrigger, what I mean is that has it any quirks and is it smooth on driving off from standstill etc.. Also in terms of kit cars (Ferrari) with the wheel extensions and brakes, is there any danger of the extensions being ripped off under all that power?
Sorry just asking whats on my mind.
gavsdavs
10-10-2012, 10:21
I am not above any form of coersion, bribery, flattery or any other underhand means to help Mr Woods along.
I would feed him amphetamines but he's a long way a way....:)
dgh938peg
10-10-2012, 11:19
.. Also in terms of kit cars (Ferrari) with the wheel extensions and brakes, is there any danger of the extensions being ripped off under all that power?
Sorry just asking whats on my mind.
As easy to drive as any 300hp sports car i guess...
As for the bodykit.. If it's held on with masking tape it will not stay on, if it's bonded & riveted properly then it'll be fine.
gavsdavs
10-10-2012, 11:39
.....its on to the cosmetics.....
I don't have any cosmetic plans for the car - it's going to be a sleeper.
The last thing I want is tealeaves taking an interest in it because it looks blingy.
snowtigger
10-10-2012, 11:54
It's ok only a little quirk is it likes to go fast, but that could be down to my driving style and clutch.
It will pootle all day at 30 and at 70mph it's barely running and in 5th it just a big cruiser untill you hit the loud pedal and all hell brakes loose, it's much better now I've unseiezed the brakes lol so should run faster at the pod.
kalsingh1
10-10-2012, 12:15
Did you have to fit larger brakes or are they standard stock ?
Also have you worked out how many miles per gallon you get?
The MOT rules have become more strict from Jan 12 about the emissions, do you forsee any problems there and have you removed the CAT?
Cheers
Did you have to fit larger brakes or are they standard stock ?
Also have you worked out how many miles per gallon you get?
The MOT rules have become more strict from Jan 12 about the emissions, do you forsee any problems there and have you removed the CAT?
Cheers
i get 26/39 USMPG with mine but i did the final drive swap. you can expect 3-4mpg less with the stock 4.28 gears.
there's a big difference between the in-town and the highway driving because i do drive somewhat aggressively. the 2gr beacons me to do so. in UKMPG that translates to 31/47 and in metric, 9.0L/100km city and 6.0L/100km highway
the MKI probably gets marginally better fuel economy due to the lighter weight.
emissions from the 2gr without cats are cleaner than the 3s-gte from the factory. cats are not impossible to fit, but very difficult to do so. emissions regulations vary from location to location and you'd have to do some research first. i know several states in the US can't run the 2gr because of the inability to fit cats in this swap.
snowtigger
10-10-2012, 13:29
Cats I have a black and white one it goes meow, as I've had it on the co2 doodah at the mot it's a lot less than the 4age that was 900ppm the 2gr was 100ppm apparently if it had a mega small cat it probably would pass a cat test.
As to brakes I have the st205 celica fronts turbo rears, as the mk1 is crap on standard brakes, the setup I've got makes the car stand on its nose and I've not yet bedded the brakes in fully.
Mpg about 35mpg a lot less if you have a heavy right foot, cough me officer never sir I'm a good boy .
kalsingh1
10-10-2012, 14:18
Does that mean for a UK MOT, the 2gr has to have the CAT test therefore needs them fitted? Thats pretty good mpg for a 3.4L engine!
Also can anyone comment on where a LPG tank would fit, if I went down that route on my MK3
Does that mean for a UK MOT, the 2gr has to have the CAT test therefore needs them fitted? Thats pretty good mpg for a 3.4L engine!
Also can anyone comment on where a LPG tank would fit, if I went down that route on my MK3
it's a 3.5L (3456cc to be precise)
LPG? for the 2gr? seems like a bad idea to convert an unsuported engine to LPG that nobody knows about.
gavsdavs
10-10-2012, 14:23
The way Paul explained it to me the cat requirement is based around the age of the chassis.
As my car it a 1991/1992, it predates the year from which having a cat was necessary.
The fact that it came from the factory with a cat isn't relevant.
So to a degree, it depends on the age of the chassis of your car.
On ecomony, I am hopeful that the 2GR will be more economic than the 3s-GE that came out.
The two litre regularly got gunned pretty hard to get the car up and moving, whereas a small tap on the pedal should be sufficient with the 2GR in place. It is likely I'll be driving in limo mode for most of the time.
Anyone who's got more specific info on the cat situation please correct me.
kalsingh1
10-10-2012, 14:34
I have a Mk2 fitted with a 3.0L 3VFZE which is LPG converted, never had a problem with the LPG or running with it.
It is really cheap to run eqiv of around 55 mpg.
Why would it then be a bad idea to convert a 2gr, lots of people convert their Lexus to LPG?
Can someone throw more light on the CAT testing relating to the car age for a MOT. Would this mean that if you needed to keep the CAT to stay within the Law, that there would be a loss of power, I wonder what the difference in power with and without the CAT would be.
snowtigger
10-10-2012, 14:38
There changing the whole bloody thing at the moment, as it stands what you said is correct but it's subject to change because of the bloody eu knobheads.
One thing I've found is use a thicker oil in the engine as after changeing the oil to a 0/30 fully synthetic I keep getting oily puffs of smoke if I rev it from stand still.
So use a 10/30 semi synthetic and save some money.
Why would it then be a bad idea to convert a 2gr, lots of people convert their Lexus to LPG?
it was only available with the 2gr for one model year. i doubt there are lots of conversions. but if there are, then it's not a new avenue.
i'd just recommend against being a pioneer in that conversion only to end up with a damaged engine that you can't get locally.
Beanyfelix
10-10-2012, 14:53
With my newer chassis, 2002, I thought Paul said the standard changed to the year of the engine fitted. My motor is from a 98 RX300, so I'm screwed either way.
I think on a pre cat chassis, you are fine, but on a post cat chassis you need a cat. Unless you fit an engine from a pre cat car. If that makes sense. I dare say Paul will confirm the matter.
There is always the option to find a tester who sees a cat where there isn't one. Lol.
I've gone with a cat for the mot and a de-cat pipe for when I drive the car off road, aaaggghhhhuuummmm!!
That's if Paul can figure out how to fit it all in. Lol.
The motor's looking good Gav, that is going to be so much fun.
The way Paul explained uprating the brakes to me, I had never heard before, but it makes sense. Everyone assumes more power means you need bigger more powerful brakes. Paul explained as long as the weight of the car is not increased significantly then the standard brakes, if good enough for the standard car, were fine as you are braking against the weight of the car, not the power of the engine.
I will be upgrading to grooved and drilled discs, yellowstuff pads and braided hoses, simply to allow later braking and to reduce the risk of fade through some spirited enjoyment of the new V6. All on private roads of course.
Beany.
Monkeyra
10-10-2012, 15:27
Lol @ mpg comments. C'mon, who really gives a flying stuff what the mpg will be, it's a 3.5L V6, so it's not going to be brilliant! If you care about it, an MR2 with a 2GR-FE probably isn't the car for you!
cdwood2010
10-10-2012, 16:38
Agreed. People ask me what my 3VZ is like on fuel.
'No idea, when the needle says empty I just put more in!'
:)
Beanyfelix
10-10-2012, 17:27
I agree.
Actually I've got a diesel Vauxhall zafira, auto.(My wife's motability car) and it's as thirsty as Gazza. I reckon my 1mz vvti.is gonna be way better on fuel than the Zafira. Although I will do my best to see just how quickly I can make a tank of fuel disappear. Lol.
If I do ever sell my 430 replica, I'm pretty sure I'd have a 2gr in a mk2 or mk3. Cos the mk1 2gr can't be done apparently. Lol
snowtigger
10-10-2012, 17:31
I go of the smiles per mile theory, if I'm still smiling as I'm paying the fuel bill then it's worth every penny.
I once owned a 7 litre v8 429 big block ford with 2 400cfm double pumper carbs and a supercharger now that could sup fuel, you could here the gallons flying through the carbs but boy was it fun.
I go of the smiles per mile theory, if I'm still smiling as I'm paying the fuel bill then it's worth every penny.
I once owned a 7 litre v8 429 big block ford with 2 400cfm double pumper carbs and a supercharger now that could sup fuel, you could here the gallons flying through the carbs but boy was it fun.
admit it, you'd make this your daily driver if you could:
http://cdn.speedhunters.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/TommyWithShowboat2.jpg
snowtigger
10-10-2012, 18:01
Feck me that's cool, and if I could I would run that down the street.
I still fancy a bat mobile with a flame thrower out the jet engine.
Feck me that's cool, and if I could I would run that down the street.
I still fancy a bat mobile with a flame thrower out the jet engine.
there are parts of the world that you can drive that down the street.... ahem, like here!
snowtigger
10-10-2012, 20:02
Stop playing with me, I love America and Canada and how relaxed you are with guns, explosives ,and aeroplane engines in cars.
Only problem is the alcohol is crap out there (by alcohol I'm talking beer) and its not a bar it's a pub grrrr and a chip shop not a fries place, and aluminium is not alminum , it's not gas it's a liquid petrol gas comes out of a fire that's why it's called a gas fire or a petrol lawn mower, and it's not just down the road it's frigging miles away rant mode off and breath.
Sorry it's just little things that after a month over there I start pulling my hair out lol.
you and your frekin' chips. there's an irish pub downtown that serves good food and they mostly make it a point to go for the chips/crisps nomenclature instead of the more local fries/chips but depending on the waiter/waitress sometimes you get chips instead of chips!
but don't worry, there's a 2nd round of street legal jealously coming soon :) the radial airplane engine is getting replaced by a pair of jet engines :)
snowtigger
10-10-2012, 20:58
My lad after countless times being told don't ask for "chips" ask for fries forgot and got a fish and crisps lol.
I did get a funny look of a petrol (gas station atendent)station when I asked for a packet of fags (how was I to know fags don't come in packets they hang round in bars and cigarettes are not homo or gay).
My lad after countless times being told don't ask for "chips" ask for fries forgot and got a fish and crisps lol.
I did get a funny look of a petrol (gas station atendent)station when I asked for a packet of fags (how was I to know fags don't come in packets they hang round in bars and cigarettes are not homo or gay).
i'll leave this right here: http://theoatmeal.com/pl/minor_differences4/accents
snowtigger
10-10-2012, 23:52
Fuck yes, beer vaginas pussy hell touchdown lol.
Paul Woods
16-10-2012, 19:45
Not much to take pics of, the turbo rear hubs are on, subframe refitted, driveshafts done, heater hoses, rad pipes, fuel pressure regulator and fuel pipes all done.
Just wiring, DBW pedal and exhaust fab left to go and she's done.
gavsdavs
16-10-2012, 20:16
Top work that man. Cannot f*cking wait. Like waiting for the best christmas present EVER !
Paul Woods
17-10-2012, 18:44
Update pics of the bay as it is now...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/154.jpg
FPR...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/155.jpg
Had to make a T piece for the oil cooler line, the coolant housing on this engine had no fitting for it...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/156.jpg
Adams sexy intake pipe...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/157.jpg
Mongoose fitted awaiting piping up...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/158.jpg
gavsdavs
17-10-2012, 18:59
It actually looks like there's more room in the bay than previously. Coooool As :)
cdwood2010
17-10-2012, 19:26
Yeah, first thing I said when I saw Lees 2GR.
The engine looks smaller than a 2.0 or a 3.0. I think that gives you some idea of how updated this engine is compared the the early 90's tech that its getting bolted into.
It's making me mucho horney to get on with mine now.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/166.jpg
snowtigger
17-10-2012, 20:05
Yeah, first thing I said when I saw Lees 2GR.
The engine looks smaller than a 2.0 or a 3.0. I think that gives you some idea of how updated this engine is compared the the early 90's tech that its getting bolted into.
It's making me mucho horney to get on with mine now.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/166.jpg
Is that your sex face then Chris?
cdwood2010
17-10-2012, 20:26
Of course not!
That's my come face!
:p
Beanyfelix
17-10-2012, 21:32
I don't know how you find enough hours in the day to do these two builds simultaneously Paul.
Fantstic work.
snowtigger
17-10-2012, 21:38
It's best doing two as when you get stuck or bored with one you can do a bit on the other, all the while your subconscious is working on the solution to the problem.
Well that's what I do when I get stuck go away for a bit do some thing else and the solution seems to present it self
Beanyfelix
17-10-2012, 21:42
It's best doing two as when you get stuck or bored with one you can do a bit on the other, all the while your subconscious is working on the solution to the problem.
Doest that apply to the old "menage et tois" also?
Lol.
dgh938peg
18-10-2012, 08:24
I don't know how you find enough hours in the day to do these two builds simultaneously Paul.
Fantstic work.
Clever Dick....
Paul Woods
18-10-2012, 08:33
You should see what I can do with my balls
dgh938peg
18-10-2012, 08:36
That shall be one hell of a JAE Saturday night Cabaret Act of your balls and Chris' cum-face...
cdwood2010
18-10-2012, 10:23
Now it's a party!
C.
snowtigger
18-10-2012, 12:06
And jaspers "I got you"
Paul Woods
19-10-2012, 18:14
Some exhaust work progress, just the front bank piped to the rear silencer...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/174.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/175.jpg
The trick now is to pipe the rear bank into this pipe in the best way possible, now previously it's been doubled back on itself and Y'd into the front pipe, but it requires lots of very tight bends and i'm not that keen on it. The diagram below shows the previous way, in blue, but i think i'd prefer to loop the pipe under the crossmember and taper it more gradually into the pipe after the subframe (red), it will have more length this way, which will make it more equal to the front pipe length.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/176.jpg
Monday should see the exhaust finished.
gavsdavs
19-10-2012, 18:31
Not knowing anything about this - why are equal lengths good ?
equal lengths maximize scavenging. it's a 1-2hp difference in this case probably. but it also affects the note from the exhaust.
Paul Woods
19-10-2012, 18:40
There's a good blog here by David Vizard about exhaust tuning.... http://performancecarbscience.com/exhaust-system-science-by-david-vizard/
gavsdavs
19-10-2012, 18:53
There's a good blog here by David Vizard about exhaust tuning.... http://performancecarbscience.com/exhaust-system-science-by-david-vizard/
Thanks Guys. Baffling, but interesting :)
yup, if you run all the math you'll see that the headers i sell are a bit short. but there are packaging compromises that had to be made.
Paul Woods
19-10-2012, 18:57
Indeed, a 2gr system is a compromise between having a system getting the most from the engine and having a system that physically fits within the confines of the space available, it's not an easy thing to do.
gavsdavs
19-10-2012, 18:59
yup, if you run all the math you'll see that the headers i sell are a bit short. but there are packaging compromises that had to be made.
Man its years since I did maths like this !
snowtigger
19-10-2012, 20:11
Ah but goukys headers are a work of art in them selves, fuck maths if it looks right it's probably going to work.
Equal lengths helps scavenge exhaust gas out of the alternate cylinders and equalises the back pressure plus the sound wave, David vizard is a god among A series engine tuning turbo supercharged compound charged he's just simply the man.
gavsdavs
19-10-2012, 20:57
Have to say, it looks the bollocks. Can you take a big photo of the finished system when its in place ? Looks f*ckin awesome.
Paul Woods
24-10-2012, 07:28
Not much to update on apart from the fact i've been wiring away like a madman, wiring wiring and more wiring, did i say i was wiring?
gavsdavs
24-10-2012, 14:25
Did you leave the missus at home looking like this ?
2337
Paul Woods
24-10-2012, 20:54
For some reason i'm strangely aroused by that!
Right an update from a few days ago, ECU located here....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/240.jpg
Wiring completed but left untaped for now... i'm a stickler for neat wiring.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/241.jpg
I'll leave you guys wondering why there are two green starter relays wired in and not just one, something the homebuilders neglect!
Exhaust rear bank now plumbed in....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/242.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/243.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/244.jpg
Engine bay overview...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/245.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/246.jpg
Startup is imminent.
snowtigger
24-10-2012, 21:08
ooooh looks like a 2gr probably sounds like thor gargling thunder.
gavsdavs
24-10-2012, 21:26
Woooooooowwwwwwwwww. That looks f*ckin awesome.
I am SO excited!
cdwood2010
24-10-2012, 22:47
Interesting - two starter relays? They can both be for the starter surely.
Is one for the fuel pump?
C.
Paul Woods
25-10-2012, 06:43
No the COR is the cars fuel pump relay, and nothing to do with the starter.
headcase
25-10-2012, 06:55
You using the other relay for the afr sensors or to power the fuse box up so the ecu can swtich on the fuse box .
Paul Woods
25-10-2012, 06:59
You using the other relay for the afr sensors
Give that man a goldfish, he's done his swap homework :thumbsup:
There are too many amps pulled by those AFR's to just lump them onto the EFI or engine main relay circuits, now i'm not saying it won't work, it will, but it makes me sleep better knowing they have their own relay, i use a starter one because i know it's used for the biggest load without having to bother with ratings, plus i have loads of them.
headcase
25-10-2012, 07:05
I wired in a 60amp relay must admit didnt think of another starter relay good if you got spare one . But if anyone that does the swap looks at wiring they will see the afr sensors run there owen relay . :-) lessons first thing in the morning before work get the brain in gear .
Patrick
headcase
25-10-2012, 07:14
What do i win holiday . Cause i need one . Dont want a goldfish got loads of them :-D
Patrick
Paul Woods
26-10-2012, 18:27
Now running, horrible iphone mic picking up loads of valvetrain noise that just isn't there in person.
That engine bay needs dusting!
Next week will see it being revved and driven properly when i've finished bleeding the system and checking things over.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIqJluNLyBc
gavsdavs
26-10-2012, 18:48
Excellent news - sounds almost subdued. I guess you lot all pick noisy exhausts :)
Top work Paul !
Paul Woods
26-10-2012, 18:50
Well it is only idling, you can't tell anything from that yet, let's wait and see what she's like on full chat.
gavsdavs
26-10-2012, 18:53
My own very special Christmas is coming. I cannot wait :)
cdwood2010
26-10-2012, 19:59
Loving the vid, thinking its about time I get on with mine next.
:)
Yeah this motor is deceptively quiet under quarter load and under 4000rpm. But she screams loud enough at full load/rpm to scare exotics
snowtigger
27-10-2012, 03:21
it does emit a most gorgeous note at about 120mph not that ive ever reached this speed on a public road in less than 12 seconds (with defective sticking brakes i must add it goes quite quicker now).
gavsdavs
06-11-2012, 09:23
A quick update here for the curious.
Exhaust system got finished last week. DBW throttle also fitted last week.
The exhaust showed an unpleasant resonance around 3k rpm which Paul insisted he fix - with a longer flexi from the rear bank.
This showed up on friday, was fitted Monday and has solved the resonance.
Once this was sorted it came off the ramps for a drive.
Engine checks out as sweet - but an issue has been found around the synchro on 4th gear on the rev3 box.
Paul isn't happy with this and is sourcing a replacement gearbox to resolve it.
(Paul correct me if I got any of that wrong).
Can't remember Paul's exact words on the engine - I think it was 'it's got plenty of power all through the rev range'. I suspect that's an understatement :)
"it's got plenty of power all through the rev range"
yeah, that's a serious understatement :)
also, keep in mind since you're using a new ECU that it has to learn the new exhaust and intake. the output will take about 100 miles of driving before it gets to it's full potential. so make sure you put that mileage on it before you get your dyno done if you want the actual horsepower.
Paul Woods
06-11-2012, 14:15
Yep that pretty much sums it up Gav, the car is now a rocket ship , I'm pissed off that the gearbox has a fourth gear issue, the perils of buying second hand parts, so as of today the old box is now on the floor waiting for its replacement.
gavsdavs
06-11-2012, 18:12
Whats the outlook on using a modern 6 speed box with this engine ?
Have you magicians concocted a plan ?
Whats the outlook on using a modern 6 speed box with this engine ?
Have you magicians concocted a plan ?
while it is quite possible, it's a ton of custom fabrication and there are no parts to make it easy at this point in time.
gavsdavs
13-11-2012, 20:54
while it is quite possible, it's a ton of custom fabrication and there are no parts to make it easy at this point in time.
Ok, this is back in my possession. Who needs gearboxes :) ??
Proper writeup and vids and stuff when I have some light.
snowtigger
13-11-2012, 21:59
That would be good first is a starter mounting position plate, second a speedo drive (which there happens to be a blank for apparently then a custom cv either making or some form of turbo shaft connecter on the gearbox end.
There's a few custom propshaft makers so all they have to do is make the correct cv splines/ends and jobs a goodun.
Perhaps those that seek to just profit from others work rather than help could chip in as well, as we share most every thing other than those who's livelihood it affects we don't want people out of a job , I don't mind paying for stuff as long as the person who came up with it gets the credit.
Some day there just maybe a lottery millionaire who can sort this out for us poor people lol.
Beanyfelix
13-11-2012, 22:09
Hey Gav,
I don't suppose you'll be posting for a while then as you'll be out enjoying the new motor, lol.
Hopefully i won't be too far behind.
Enjoy!
i fixed it:
Hey Gav,
I don't suppose you'll be posting for a while then as you'll be out enjoying the new monster, lol.
Hopefully i won't be too far behind.
Enjoy!
Beanyfelix
14-11-2012, 08:53
Sorry, my bad! Lol.
gavsdavs
14-11-2012, 10:10
I don't suppose you'll be posting for a while then as you'll be out enjoying the new motor, lol.
At this point it's very much handle with care. I haven't driven for 3 months (I managed to scratch an alloy on a kerb yesterday), the brakes definitely need looking at.
First and second gears have been relegated to pulling off only. Any throttle in those and the take off is truly violent.
Since it's now completed heart replacement surgery it now needs bits of tlc. Interior panels need refitting/replacing, it's off for MOT in 10 days, it's onboard computer needs fitting. Pity it lives under a cover for most of the week.
To echo what Paul said yesterday - those people who put 2GRs in mk1s or mk3s are nuts. The engine is frickin insane.
snowtigger
14-11-2012, 10:18
I'm not nuts well it all depends on your view point I suppose, turboing it next brum brum peep peep woooptish.
gavsdavs
14-11-2012, 10:24
"Nuts" intended in a "cohones of steel" sense.
Do you have no sense of fear :) ??
"Nuts" intended in a "cohones of steel" sense.
Do you have no sense of fear :) ??
you should get the brakes fixed. it won't be so bad afterwards :) you'll get used to the power and next thing you know you'll be able to smoothly drift the car around any corner
snowtigger
14-11-2012, 12:13
The sideways express, roundabouts and diesel spills are fun going sideways.
gavsdavs
26-11-2012, 12:58
Ok, it's MOT time, wish me luck.
Amongst other things, I asked JEM to look into/check all the ABS components (Hub sensors and ECU) - they suggested that the early mk2s didn't have ABS.
Mine is a rev2 import, can anyone confirm whether it should or should not have ABS fitted ??
Gavs
dgh938peg
26-11-2012, 13:14
Was an optional extra on import turbos (not sure on the import N/A). I have a set of rev1 hubs with ABS.
gavsdavs
26-11-2012, 13:48
It's just had some turbo read hubs fitted as part of it's 2grisation.
I've asked them to have a good look round it and let me know.
If it's discovered NOT to have ABS - has anyone retrofitted ABS to a mk2 before ?
dgh938peg
26-11-2012, 13:55
The only reason i have bought ABS turbo hubs for my non-ABS turbo shell is to add traction control at some stage (these are for the V8). To add ABS is a hell of a lot of wiring loom, I am unsure if the loom is different though - i would imagine it is but the N/A's having the added socket for 2 fans on the rad is making me doubt.
You'll need an ABS pump and different master cylinder and piping for starters.
In all honesty, it is not something i would consider doing unless i had a donor car alongside to rob all the parts off.
gavsdavs
26-11-2012, 14:06
The only reason i have bought ABS turbo hubs for my non-ABS turbo shell is to add traction control at some stage (these are for the V8). To add ABS is a hell of a lot of wiring loom, I am unsure if the loom is different though - i would imagine it is but the N/A's having the added socket for 2 fans on the rad is making me doubt.
You'll need an ABS pump and different master cylinder and piping for starters.
In all honesty, it is not something i would consider doing unless i had a donor car alongside to rob all the parts off.
Furrynuff, I'm hoping it does actually have it.
On calipers - thinking of getting mine remanufactured by this lot:
http://biggred.co.uk/
(Mainly for the polymer coating)
Anyone used these guys before ??
Gavs
Paul Woods
26-11-2012, 15:17
Gav yours doesn't have ABS mate
gavsdavs
26-11-2012, 15:56
Gav yours doesn't have ABS mate
Arse. That's a pain - I always thought it did.
Beanyfelix
26-11-2012, 16:46
"Cadence braking."
Old Skool ABS!
gavsdavs
26-11-2012, 18:50
Ok, it's MOT time, wish me luck.
And the old lady passes with flying colours, no advisories :)
The brakes are within limits (Woody you unbeliever) - but I'm still going to look into alternatives. Ideally I want as much stopping power as going power.
I've no idea where to fit the parachute and anchor it's going to need...
Paul Woods
26-11-2012, 18:53
Within limits! jesus i was nearly throwing an anchor out of the window mate, the brakes are shite!
I would say they are well below stock brakes performance at present, probably just needs bleeding or something you know.
gavsdavs
26-11-2012, 19:02
Within limits! jesus i was nearly throwing an anchor out of the window mate, the brakes are shite!
I would say they are well below stock brakes performance at present, probably just needs bleeding or something you know.
I would say they are progressive :)
There is sufficient grip in them, but there is a whole load more pedal travel in it than in other cars so yes - definitely getting new fluid.
Does anyone know if Wilwood do rear calipers with the handbrake component such that I can swap to wilwoods alround ?
Gavs
i drive an MKII MR2 with a 2gr and stock brakes. in good repair they are sufficient for street use. track use would require bigger brakes.
you should just look at fixing the problem with the stock setup instead of upgrading. the MR2 has pretty amazing brakes from the factory.
gavsdavs
26-11-2012, 19:12
i drive an MKII MR2 with a 2gr and stock brakes. in good repair they are sufficient for street use. track use would require bigger brakes.
you should just look at fixing the problem with the stock setup instead of upgrading. the MR2 has pretty amazing brakes from the factory.
I think today it just got MOT'd.
I'm going to talk with them again tomorrow when they've had a closer look.
It may indeed just need some basic attention.
Forgot to mention -
- they were impressed with the actual engine conversion - not really a surprise as it's a f*cking work of art.
- The guy I deal with did a silly thing. He put his foot down in second gear 'just to see what the brakes are like' on a 100m dead-end strip of road just outside their garage.. The flux capacitor hit 1.21gigawatts, the world became a blur and he now needs new underwear.
Paul Woods
26-11-2012, 19:16
In all seriousness Gav, Gouky is right, stock brakes are brilliant, yours are terrible... i'm very surprised they passed to be honest.
Just change the fluid and have them bled, that's probably all it needs.
Oh dear, full throttle in second gear... no wonder he filled his huggies.
gavsdavs
26-11-2012, 19:25
In all seriousness Gav, Gouky is right, stock brakes are brilliant, yours are terrible... i'm very surprised they passed to be honest.
Just change the fluid and have them bled, that's probably all it needs.
Maybe I haven't noticed them deteriorate - but I can't help but think they've always been like that. Will get new fluid put in.
Bit disappointed over the ABS. Would be useful.
Paul Woods
26-11-2012, 19:29
Oh trust me mate, i've driven literally hundreds of Mk2s, there is something very wrong with your brakes at the moment, wish i'd had time to look at them for you, they probably just need bleeding, you will notice a huge difference after it's fixed.
Monkeyra
26-11-2012, 20:33
Rev 5 calipers with carbotech pads, pretty fricking awesome combination if I say so myself!
snowtigger
26-11-2012, 20:36
shite brakes and 2gr power in second gear= recipe for disaster are you positive the skid marks were black not brown and he was wearing cycle clips.
the foolish boy 2nd gear is stupidly fast after the silly short first then third gear is hahahahahaha weres my licence gone 4th is oh look pretty blue lights in the rear view mirror 5th gear is why has the world stopped and all the other cars are in reverse.
The guy I deal with did a silly thing. He put his foot down in second gear 'just to see what the brakes are like' on a 100m dead-end strip of road just outside their garage.. The flux capacitor hit 1.21gigawatts, the world became a blur and he now needs new underwear.
I laughed my ass off when I read that :yelrotflmao:
gavsdavs
07-12-2012, 22:47
Ok, back from service.
New Toyota discs and pads all round, new fluid, Calipers removed ,cleaned up and refitted - brakes have a good deal less travel. And they look shiny :)
New window/door seals - this was useful as there was rust on the panels behind them.
Raybriggs and bulbs fitted.
Window mechanisms tightenened up.
Fuel report - 193.2 mainly motorway miles.
60% at a frustrating 0-50mph in stop/start (M1 and M6 on a Friday afternoon)
20% high speed with some heavy acceleration (m6 Toll) - first time I've actually opened it up.
20% A roads (up to 60mph)
30.4Litres of 97ron.
28.8 Mpg.
Was playing with a BMW 330Ci on the M6 toll - he was willing to break 100 so was willing to outpace me but was left for dead between 60 and 100.
This thing picks up speed like you're going down a 1 in 4 hill.
snowtigger
08-12-2012, 01:11
There's not much that can catch one in accelerate terms, but I'm not going to loose my licence for anybody on the queens highway, I only race on a track or drag race and now my brakes work fine it feels a tadge faster lol.
gavsdavs
08-12-2012, 10:35
I'm not going to loose my licence for anybody on the queens highway
Completely in agreement:-) quite fun leaving the toll gates though :-)
snowtigger
08-12-2012, 14:32
oh yes on the m6 toll against a Porsche turbo 996 he thought he had me not a frigin chance, these motors are awesome on there torque.
jasongtr
08-12-2012, 21:42
oh yes on the m6 toll against a Porsche turbo 996 he thought he had me not a frigin chance, these motors are awesome on there torque.
thats pretty impressive
Petergee541
08-12-2012, 22:56
oh yes on the m6 toll against a Porsche turbo 996 he thought he had me not a frigin chance, these motors are awesome on there torque.
We miss out on drag Chrismas trees on motorways in Australia. Most of our tolls are automated drive throughs.
Actually I'm sort of happy thet my 2GR is a track only vehicle . Sounds like way too much temptation for me as a road car. Definitely licence threatening.
snowtigger
09-12-2012, 01:31
ooh yes it's that quick from the off I've run against a customers gt3 down a private road and he could just about keep up the words were "how the fuck did that out pace me all the way to 70mph until my turbos kicked in you were gone"
Also I think charged had a shock when I caught him up even with two fat lads in the car lol.
jasongtr
09-12-2012, 01:36
sounds good, in relation to the other thread i might have to get a passenger ride and consider building this and the mk2 golf 4wd
snowtigger
09-12-2012, 01:47
I at first thought 325bhp isn't that much because I've driven higher bhp cars like a lotus Carlton with 600bhp and a sierra mk1 cosworth rs500 with both injector rails working, and that was quick but what most people even me miss is the torque figure and just were it comes in first gear from the bottom, what you have to see is the torque on a turbo comes in violently in a very short power band I'm at 120mph in 3rd crossing the line and going for 4th and its still accelerating .
Get the 4wd turbo golf built and ill race you at the pod I'm not afraid of seeing if your golf will win it will be cool just seeing a turbo 4wd golf full stop.
jasongtr
09-12-2012, 01:56
im tempted to do both, just will take longer having 2x projects on the go - and the associated costs of both builds
cdwood2010
09-12-2012, 02:38
im tempted to do both, just will take longer having 2x projects on the go - and the associated costs of both builds
Do it. Just get some pizza and beer in and invite us round to help.
:)
jasongtr
09-12-2012, 02:39
ah i can do that for sure
cdwood2010
09-12-2012, 02:53
Awesome.
I keep saying we should have 'work party's' where we rock up and do some A Team style engine swaps.
:-(|)
jasongtr
09-12-2012, 02:54
crazeee foool
cdwood2010
09-12-2012, 02:58
Now it's a party.....,
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/12/38.jpg
jasongtr
09-12-2012, 03:00
thats fooking funny -
snowtigger
09-12-2012, 15:20
Ok who's Murdoch, face ,Hannibal and mr T?
jasongtr
09-12-2012, 16:58
face looks like a dwarf george michael
gavsdavs
09-12-2012, 17:38
Another fillup...
247miles - 25% fast A roads, 75% fast motorway (Helsby->London in 3hrs, 2 stops)
44.17L
25.38mpg
I suppose expecting a monster V6 to return 2 litre economy was a bit naive :)
Monkeyra
09-12-2012, 18:02
The MPG is irrelevant! I'm more interested in who you've raced and beaten!
The trip computer in my daily driver says average 22.4 mpg! a 2lt Mondeo (ok its a cougar :eusa_shifty: ) At 25.38 mpg you must be still running it in :smile:
snowtigger
09-12-2012, 23:02
I get 30 to 35 when at 70mph out of the mk1 only goes into the 20s when I'm really going a tadge quicker, but like its been said before you don't build these for mpg you build them for smiles per gallon I can't stop grinning like a joker on acid, looking at the trip computer your not going fast enough.
gavsdavs
02-01-2013, 17:19
I finally got my little datalogging PC running in the car - in a nutshell it reads obd and gps data and writes a kml or gpx file out.
Edit - it's working. Wahey.
Gavs.
gavsdavs
07-01-2013, 22:53
Here's a trace of what I'm capturing.
The program records a number of items from the engine (RPM, Speed, MAF, Temp, etc) - via the ODB2 interface and Long, Lat and Alt from the GPS.
Stuffs it into a little DB so you can extract the trips out of it.
Here's a kmz file of a trip
www.gavdav.demon.co.uk/segment_2.kmz
Height is speed, Fuel use is the colour (red is bad, green is good).
The missus took this on her iphone - the M6 toll gate drag strip.
www.gavdav.demon.co.uk/0-60.m4v
Typical 2GR silliness :)
You can see that bit of the journey in the kmz file if you look carefully :)
snowtigger
08-01-2013, 01:05
Will have to do the vid of this myself some time probably when I go to the pod.
gavsdavs
08-01-2013, 12:15
Will have to do the vid of this myself some time probably when I go to the pod.
Yes please. I want to see what this fictitious 2gr mk1 goes like:-)
snowtigger
08-01-2013, 12:56
I've got a few vids just not uploaded any from the Sony handicam.
gavsdavs
21-02-2013, 21:20
Question for other users of ACT clutches.
When the engine is cold/warming up, the clutch engages much lower and much less aggressively.
When its warmed up, the bite-point is much higher and much 'grabbier'.
Is this usual behaviour of this clutch - or does it sound like a fault of some sort?
snowtigger
21-02-2013, 22:02
Is it a carbon ceramic paddle clutch ?
If so it could be the expansion as it warms up it gets more grabby, best to give it a load of stick and bed it in .
gavsdavs
21-02-2013, 23:18
Is it a carbon ceramic paddle clutch ?
If so it could be the expansion as it warms up it gets more grabby, best to give it a load of stick and bed it in .
I don't think its carbon ceramic, its certainly not paddle shift. Will have to defer to Paul on the exact model fitted.
Just wondering if anyone else has similar behaviour - clutch getting higher and grabbier when warm.
gavsdavs
24-02-2013, 10:54
Took the car to Surrey Rolling Road with the MR2OC yesterday.
Was good to meet a number of other well kept mr2s and their drivers and passengers.
This particular 2GR developed 292bhp at the fly (242 at the wheels) and just over 290ft/lb (don't have an exact figure - take a look at the images)
I learned that shell optimax is generally preferable to tesco 99ron due to tesco 99 being topped up with ethanol to hit the octane rating (true ?)
I have added some images of the dynos to my garage page and a dataplot from the engine of the tests being run.
I don't understand all of the data on the images.
Gavs
Paul Woods
24-02-2013, 11:02
Your torque figure is good, BHP should be a little higher, possibly the Mongoose pipe diameter holding that back a little, but otherwise good :thumbsup:
gavsdavs
24-02-2013, 11:07
Your torque figure is good
Big and Wide - yes, we all like to have that :)
Paul Woods
24-02-2013, 11:09
No images bud?
gavsdavs
24-02-2013, 11:11
I didn't take any photos - trying to convince the others who were taking photos to post them.
Dyno plots are on my garage (http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/garage.php?do=user_garage_view&id=6967)
this car has a really quiet exhaust on it, correct?
Paul Woods
24-02-2013, 13:05
Yes this one has an NA Mongoose on it, the silencer entry pipe is a little on the skinny side, but Gav wanted a quiet system as this is a car that commutes a lot...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/158.jpg
I think there is more power to come from it if the silencer is changed for a larger bore, but it's a trade off against noise.... i personally perfer them streetable and quiet.
snowtigger
24-02-2013, 13:22
I've had several dyno runs on dyno days and they all conflict with the other dynos some don't use gas analysers or rpm meters, the best dyno run you can do is when you book it in for a tune session then it takes over an hour to properly setup the car and fit all the meters, plus an experienced tuner like Ryan on a dyno he has worked on loads is worth the extra money.
I've had 275/295 at the wheels 310/324 at the fly in bhp and torque goes up and down like a yoyo on these dyno runs.
I would take all the graphs with a pinch of salt there good for fault finding or finding the restrictions like exhaust stoping the flow of gases by being too small in the pipes, but as long as its near or over 300bhp I wouldn't sweat it, it will be interesting this year as I'm thinking of going syvecs stand alone and later maybe turbo or rotrex supercharger who knows as I have some other plans in the pipeline.
My exhaust is quite at motorway speeds only being a hooligan at highly illegal speeds he wants to go have a word at aas were mrv6 got the system built with the equal length down pipes.
gavsdavs
24-02-2013, 14:12
All in time maybe. Right now it's juuust fine :)
Getting the BHP figure was more out of interest than competition - the car is plenty fast enough on the road.
Gavs.
Edit - another thing we know now - the car is doing 108mph when it hits the revlimiter in 4th.
I think because the rollers were cold a number of the cars were getting wheelspin during their runs.
snowtigger
24-02-2013, 17:30
I'm hitting 109mph in 3rd gear changing to 4th just as I pass the 1/4 mile I've never hit the rev limit in 4 th yet or 5th as its normally only at 70mph and 3000 rpm still got 3500 to go,
What pipe diameter is that NA Mongoose exhaust? I'd have thought for a 2GR-FE you'd need a minimum of 2.5" to flow sufficient, with 2.75" to 3" being optimal (but louder).
On VX220's, with a similar exhaust rear silencer arrangement, rule of thumb is a 2.5" system is good for just north of 300bhp, and a 3" system for up to 400bhp. A very simplistic assessment of course, but would indicate to me a minimum 2.5" system is required.
Similarly, a 350Z uses a 2.5" rear pipe diameter as standard.
Paul Woods
24-02-2013, 18:00
The whole downpipe section is 2.5" right up to the Mongoose where it drops to 2.25", so yep 2.5" right through would be optimal but i have to follow the customers requirement on each build, the brief here was it had to be quiet and streetable, plus i don't really want to hack up a new Mongoose. The way it has been done Gav can change his rear silencer for something bigger (and louder) if he wants to chase a bigger Bhp number, by just unbolting the Mongoose and another system will be plug and play.
It's a compromise but necessary to achieve all goals.
gavsdavs
24-02-2013, 20:04
I'm hitting 109mph in 3rd gear changing to 4th just as I pass the 1/4 mile I've never hit the rev limit in 4 th yet or 5th as its normally only at 70mph and 3000 rpm still got 3500 to go,
And what gearbox have you got on yours? That's a big difference
snowtigger
24-02-2013, 23:09
e153 turbo box like every one else apart from paul its a rev3 lsd box, that's the figures I kept getting at santa pod last year 109mph in3rd gear changing into 4th and I was rapidly running out of tarmac and stopping distance.
I realy would one day like to max it out just to see how fast it would go and in 4th its still pulling like a train even when shoved in 5th the surge is just effortless I can go round roundabouts in third gear at 30mph and boot it out the exit and it just flings forward.
gavsdavs
25-02-2013, 09:48
Tiggs - Do you run like 22inch rims on yours or something ?
Your gearing is a whole gear taller than mine on what I suspect should be the same ratios ?
(You get 109 in third, I get 108 in 4th)
(Can anyone explain the difference ?)
I'm on a E153 on my 3SGTE and mine is also pretty much on the 7.3k limiter in 4th at 110mph.
snowtigger
25-02-2013, 12:13
I only have 17 inch wheels with 40 series tyres, I haven't maxed it yet in 4th I don't think my memory is that bad I do know I'm changing from 3rd into 4th when it's just before the end of the quarter mile and the timing gear said 109mph because over 110mph at Santa pod you have to wear a helmet.
It will do 12 second 109mph quarters all day long its getting it into the 11 this year lol.
gavsdavs
25-02-2013, 12:25
I think my rear tyre sizes are 245/35/17 - this is marginally smaller (-0.5%) than the standard 225/50/15s.
You're absolutely sure you don't have kph clocks Tiggs :) ??
(Can anyone else explain why Tiggs' setup appears to be a whole gear taller than others using the E153 ?)
My tyres are 195/50 R15 if that's any use.
gavsdavs
25-02-2013, 13:05
My tyres are 195/50 R15 if that's any use.
On your rears ? That's way small..
Yes. It's a mk1 so looks ridiculous on anything bigger. Puts the power down fine as well although the new 400ish bhp lump might cause it some issues.
snowtigger
25-02-2013, 13:15
Mine don't look daft if any thing I could do with them being wider there 9.5 245 at the rear could do with 10 or 11.
gavsdavs
25-02-2013, 13:34
So you're both in mk1s - standard wheels and tyres were:
(http://www.mr2oc.co.uk/know-your-2-knowledge-base/mr2-mk1.html?kbartid=85)
Size: MK1a 14 x 5J front and rear (triangles)
Size: MK1b 14 x 6J front and rear (teardrops)
Tyres: 185 x 60 x 14 Front & Rear
Using http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html
Tiggs - from what you've said you're using 245/40/17s - this is 8.7% bigger than standard.
When your speed reads 60, you're actually travelling at 65.2mph
Still can't see a decent reason for the big difference in gearing and indicated speed.
snowtigger
25-02-2013, 15:25
My speedo reads 70mph same as the sat nav and that was the same with the original engine and wheels?
gavsdavs
25-02-2013, 15:57
My speedo reads 70mph same as the sat nav and that was the same with the original engine and wheels?
Ok - I'm less interested in how accurate your speedo is compared to your satnav (though for you that's good news)
Nor am I interested in how fast it is to a quartermile (though I'm sure it's quick)
What I am interested in is that we seem to have
same engine (2gr, 6250 rev limiter)
same gearbox (4.125 final drive E153)
same tyres/wheels (give or take) (245/40/17s (you) vs 245/35/17s (me))
Totally different indicated speed for gearing (You get 109 in third, I get 108 in 4th).
The small difference in tyre profile doesn't make that much difference - it just doesn't add up.
snowtigger
25-02-2013, 17:32
Your welcome to come to the pod and sit in the passengers seat, could it be I'm in a mk1 and your in a much heavier mk2 and the weight difference can have an effect on speed, but if it was on a rolling road and going of there readings or your speedo reading it could be yours or theres is inaccurate, i was only pointing out that in the previous posts that my speedo maybe inaccurate but the drag strip can't lie, plus I'm not in the position to look at my speedo as I'm concentrating on the actual drive ing/launch I can only go of there time slip as to the mph.
I asked how fast the speedo was going on a 5th gear run on one of these outdoor ones and he just said more than enough?
gavsdavs
25-02-2013, 17:55
Your welcome to come to the pod and sit in the passengers seat, could it be I'm in a mk1 and your in a much heavier mk2 and the weight difference can have an effect on speed, but if it was on a rolling road and going of there readings or your speedo reading it could be yours or theres is inaccurate, i was only pointing out that in the previous posts that my speedo maybe inaccurate but the drag strip can't lie, plus I'm not in the position to look at my speedo as I'm concentrating on the actual drive ing/launch I can only go of there time slip as to the mph.
I asked how fast the speedo was going on a 5th gear run on one of these outdoor ones and he just said more than enough?
I agree - I'm not knocking your timeslips or anything. I just can't work it out (the difference)
Would love a passenger ride in yours - the weight difference will make a big difference I suspect.
If you have a top speed in 3rd of 109, I guess 4th would be ~125-130 - god knows what 5th will be.
Can you tell me what RPM your engine is doing at 70 in 3rd, 4th and 5th gears ??
You don't actually have an E153 with 3.6 final drive ratios do you ? (was it imported from US or Oz ?)
Gavs
snowtigger
25-02-2013, 19:09
I got the gearbox from a guy who breaks mr2 over in Wales Chester way, all I knew was it was a rev 3 with special trd LSD but who knows what's inside till I get it rebuilt, I do want that higher 5th gear at some time the 3.625.
next time I'm on the motorway I will find out what rpm at what speed i have to change up at, all I know is at 70/80mph in 5th its about 3000 rpm or just above .
They charge you £10 to be allowed as a passenger at the pod but you can go in anybody's that will take you or let you be a passenger, I've taken loads of people up the strip including the stepdaughters fiancé as it was his 21 birthday present, he's normally quite a chatty lad but he was very pale white and didn't speak much after the first run or two.
I can't wait to unleash the beast once I get funds and start some serious bhp/torque tuning 3.7litres 9.1 pistons forged rods uprated injectors and standalone then find a turbo to bolt on.
"Such fun"
Paul Woods
25-02-2013, 19:19
Just to clear a little confusion up, it's been said that the Mk1 weight V Mk2 might have something to do with it, this is not correct, speed/rpm are locked together regardless of how heavy or light the car is, as long as the engine has enough power to move the heavier car, they should both have the same speed for any given RPM, that is a physical property of turning a gearbox input shaft with fixed gears inside, it doesn't matter how much BHP either car has or its weight, those factors only determine HOW QUICKLY each car gets to the given RPM/Speed.
School lesson over, here are the FIXED speeds for a given RPM in each gear for a JDM E153 and 2gr engine (could be any engine turning the input shaft, in effect this will be the same as an Mr2 turbo and a 3s-gte....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2013/02/259.jpg
Assuming both of your E153's have the same gearing (never seen one other than with these gears) then the above is what you should be seeing regardless of BHP or weight.
Paul Woods
25-02-2013, 19:21
In the above i've set the max RPM to 7000 when it should be 6250, but you can still read what 6250 should be.
gavsdavs
25-02-2013, 19:36
Cool chart....is that a webpage somewhere?
Paul Woods
25-02-2013, 19:43
It's stickied in the drivetrain section of TB under "gear ratio calculator" , i use it a lot for working out customers estimated speeds etc with their tyre sizes.
snowtigger
25-02-2013, 21:52
That's very interesting that chart thanks for clearing it up Paul.
So top speed with that gearing should be 160mph and in 4th 130mph what would the top speed with the 3.625 gear be?
gavsdavs
25-02-2013, 23:45
I got the gearbox from a guy who breaks mr2 over in Wales Chester way, all I knew was it was a rev 3 with special trd LSD but who knows what's inside till I get it rebuilt, I do want that higher 5th gear at some time the 3.625.
According to Gouky this is discontinued, you'll only find them in US or OZ breakers yards.
The 3.9 set is still shipping.
They charge you £10 to be allowed as a passenger at the pod
I warn you, I'll ruin your times - 6 foot 4 and best part of 19 stone. Not even sure I fit in a Mk1 :)
snowtigger
26-02-2013, 01:23
im 6,2 and 21 stone I don't think it will be a problem as the lad was quite a big lad as well, I may have to take the padding out the seat as chris is your hight and he cant fit in a mk1, plus I bounce my nut of the sunroof over speedbumps.
Paul Woods
26-02-2013, 07:11
No i set the RPM too high, it should be 6250 not 7000, the top speed should be around 152MPH with the stock final drive.
This is the chart for 3.625 final drive and 6250rpm limit...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2013/02/266.jpg
cdwood2010
26-02-2013, 08:23
Boring.
Yawn.
Go do some drive by videos, much more interesting.
:)
gavsdavs
26-02-2013, 09:46
Boring.
Yawn.
Go do some drive by videos, much more interesting.
:)
Miaow :)
Mine is getting a 3.9 gearset fitted today (fingers crossed) - just sharing thoughts and ideas :)
Weather is too nasty for filming.
And drivebys in London could be entertaining. You can't break 20mph anywhere near where I live. You would get footage of traffic jams from me :)
Miaow :)
Mine is getting a 3.9 gearset fitted today (fingers crossed) - just sharing thoughts and ideas :)
Weather is too nasty for filming.
And drivebys in London could be entertaining. You can't break 20mph anywhere near where I live. You would get footage of traffic jams from me :)
Will need to try and catch up with you at some time mate, as I'm down your way fairly frequently (GF just moved to Surray Quays), and compare 2GR-FE notes (when I get the car..), especially if your fitting a 3.9 final drive, as it's something I've been contemplating..
cdwood2010
26-02-2013, 10:12
Miaow :)
Mine is getting a 3.9 gearset fitted today (fingers crossed) - just sharing thoughts and ideas :)
Weather is too nasty for filming.
And drivebys in London could be entertaining. You can't break 20mph anywhere near where I live. You would get footage of traffic jams from me :)
Yikes! Expensive?
And yeah I can imagine! Come to the Shire, plenty of good Driveby roads!
:)
gavsdavs
26-02-2013, 11:39
(GF just moved to Surray Quays)
Whoa small world !! That's right next to me (Canada Water ring any bells with you ?)
Drop me a PM when you'e down.
gavsdavs
26-02-2013, 11:41
Yikes! Expensive?
I spend my life in complete denial about cost :)
Whoa small world !! That's right next to me (Canada Water ring any bells with you ?)
Drop me a PM when you'e down.
Yeah, past through that trains station about 10 times this weekend! About 10 min walk from the flat. Will be down in a couple of weekends so will give you a PM nearer the time..
snowtigger
26-02-2013, 13:52
My other half brother had two flats opposite the Tower of London and that bridge that goes up and down were will I am did his vid and that idiot magican in his box was, we went down just to laugh at him and throw things at the box (yes we are yokels from up north) his two flats were near the tea and coffee museum and the technology museum.
gavsdavs
26-02-2013, 13:54
My other half brother had two flats opposite the Tower of London and that bridge that goes up and down were will I am did his vid and that idiot magican in his box was, we went down just to laugh at him and throw things at the box (yes we are yokels from up north) his two flats were near the tea and coffee museum and the technology museum.
Yeah that's about 2 miles away up the river from here.
Probably only 40 minutes drive :)
geoffmunt
26-02-2013, 19:35
Small world indeed. I work a stone's throw from the Tower of London. Surprised to see so many frequenting that area, it's not much cop for driving! Commuting into London from Surrey may be a pain, but it's nice to have some half-decent driving roads on your doorstep when not working (and you can afford something bigger than a shoebox to live in :icon_confused: .
Re the E153 ratios, my old Rev3 used to indicate about 105-ish mph when topping out in 3rd (on private roads of course), allowing for speedo error those charts look about right.
gavsdavs
26-02-2013, 23:20
Finally had some time to have a fiddle with this:
according to http://mr2.phpwerx.net/turbocalc/gearratios.php
My tyres are 245/35/17s - max rpm of 6250 these are my top speeds per gear.
F. Drive----1st---2nd---3rd---4th---5th
4.285:1----32----52----79---108---138
3.9:1------34----57----87---120---151
BUT if you use the original ratios and 245/40/17s (Tiggs's wheels) you get these speeds
4.285:1----33---54----83----114---143
So instead of spending a fortune on toyota bits and gearbox fitting - buy taller rear tyres !!! :)
snowtigger
26-02-2013, 23:27
I'm still going to get the 3.625 it maybe a long shot but if that doesn't work I will seriously consider a 6speed gearbox conversion.
255/40/17 are also a fairly common choice, but you really need at least a 8.5" width wheel rim.
gavsdavs
13-10-2013, 20:35
Ok - it may be me hearing/feeling things that actually don't exist....but I want to put it out there...
2.5k->3k rpm in top gear - Slight 'drubby' tone to the engine (almost more Boxer than Vee)
No noticeable loss in power - the flux capacitance itself still goes to 1.21 gigawatts - but I'm thinking
- misfire ?
- exhaust gasket blowy ?
Could I learn anything by pulling the codes ?
snowtigger
13-10-2013, 23:09
the 5 gear 70+ 3250 sort of noise then floor it and of it goes ok again, is that the kind of thing your on about?
I think they all do it .
cdwood2010
14-10-2013, 00:51
Could I learn anything by turning the music up?
Yep, sometimes you just need to throw your knickers in the wind and go for it.
:)
Paul Woods
14-10-2013, 07:02
Gav is it making a noise that wasn't there before?
gavsdavs
11-06-2014, 21:46
Major update :) :)
I'm now the proud owner of the 2nd 2gr/ea61 6 speed sw20 in the UK :)
Unfortunately there isn't a build thread because of who did it.
Paul (and Gouky) supplied a kit:
(lightly modified) ea61,
linkages,
mounts, etc.
This kit was shipped to my usual garage mob - JEM in Hendon to change it over. I wanted another pair of eyes to check what was happening.
Not that I don't trust Paul, but don't want the car to scare the shit out of any garage it might be taken to. I needed to know the kit/fit was sound from a 3rd party viewpoint.
According to them this was a straightforward activity, they had to relocate the fuel filter, and there was a cable running through the linkages to the alternator (not catching, just ideally should be re routed for tidiness)
They were impressed with the kit itself in terms of build quality and ease of fitment, BUT on the ACT clutch it rattled like a 30 year old diesel landrover in neutral and drove like a crab since the alignment was f00ked.
Not happy with the result so far, I took it to a bunch called MTG Ltd in Perivale run by some guy called Barry Ellis.
This guy can talk the hind legs of an acturian megadonkey - all interesting stuff - but I suspect when he spoke with Paul the call went on for several hours :)
As I understand it this engine has never been mated to this gearbox by Toyota, so we were in discovery mode.
I think also the 2gr fenerally uses a dual mass flywheel, not some skinny fidanza.
Barry suggested more damping was needed between the flywheel and the gearbox - so a Helix clutch was put in place of the ACT.
The theory was that the springs in the pressure plate would provide better damping.
The stock turbo pressure plate also looks like a good candidate, as it has rubber bungs in the pressure plate.
(I may be mixing my metaphors, Paul will be able to explain more precisely the theory behind this)
Anyway - they've put it all back together and so far....it's f*cking awesome.
I'm not hearing any rattle at idle/neutral. when you dip the clutch there is a slight change in tone, but you have to be under the car to hear it.
There is sometimes a slight 'whump' as you engage first from neutral when stationary. This is quiet; someone not listening for it wouldn't hear it.
- edit- I've just driven it again.
The rattle is still present, and it seems related to how hard you press the throttle, when in gear. the harder you accelerate the more pronounced it is but its not noisy under normal conditions. (only under hard acceleration from low speeds)
I will be monitoring this to see if it gets better/worse but i think it'll be hard to pin down without a rolling road...
The helix clutch is a dream by comparison - people who've driven it before and after since say 'it feels like a normal car again'.
Anyone who drives with an ACT clutch should consider them if renewing.
Don't get me wrong, the ACT clamps like a mofo but it's pretty heavy and it 'wants to bite'. A gentle clutch it is not.
My e153 had the 3.9 ratios (better, but I thought were still too short for the engine), but the ea61 appears to be the 'right' ratios. (IMHO)
I guess that my 4th is now approximately the same as my 5th used to be.
From what I've seen - 6th gear seems to be about 250rpm per 10mph - i.e:
1750 = 60 mph
2000 = 70mph
2250 = 80mph
I've got a trackday in a month (July 19th at Blyton if anyone is interested - see the thread on imoc), then a 2000 mile hoon round europe in August (http://www.twoballbangerrally.co.uk/), so it better hold together.
I also have a 2nd hand ACT which is up for grabs if anyone wants it...
Gunning for 40mpg !!!
Monkeyra
11-06-2014, 21:55
Brill news! What's the total cost of all of this?
gavsdavs
11-06-2014, 22:11
Brill news! What's the total cost of all of this?
Many Sheckels. POA @ woodsport.
Remember I've paid people to do all of this and I suspect you'll do much of it yourself.
Monkeyra
11-06-2014, 22:15
Not necessarily, it's taken me two years to do a 2grfe install, I'm getting old!
Paul Woods
12-06-2014, 07:11
Gav i think the gear rattle will always be present to some degree given the issue with it previously being a dual mass setup, the harmonics have completely changed, when i spoke to Barry he educated me on clutch damping and how each engine is specifically tuned to each gearbox type so that resonance is very low or nil.
If you want to tune it out further then it might need a stock turbo flywheel (converted to V6 spec) fitting to give it more rotating mass, i think that could well iron it out, certainly from what you have said the Helix setup has all but eradicated it apart from specific loads, the ACT was rattling the gearbox like a charity donation bucket.
In all we are happy the 6 speed has been an overall success, it works like a dream, it has taken a very long time to get to this point and there is still some work to do refining the kit parts, downside is it will never be cheap but we are working on the costs.
gavsdavs
12-06-2014, 13:06
Paul ...see if you can get to blyton on July 19th....good place to see it at WOT :)
snowtigger
12-06-2014, 15:45
Is it blyton speed trials?
gavsdavs
12-06-2014, 15:46
Is it blyton speed trials?
that's the next day...
snowtigger
12-06-2014, 16:42
Cool always wanted a weekend down there when it's on
gavsdavs
12-06-2014, 18:14
Is it blyton speed trials?
http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=178878
snowtigger
12-06-2014, 21:32
Ah ha that looks like a fun day out, pity after this weekend will be skint.
gavsdavs
15-06-2014, 21:33
The conditions under which the gearbox rattles -
Low RPM and large amounts of throttle and up to about 2kpm - labouring the engine.
Above that it disappears, at low amounts of throttle it's minimal.
You occasionally notice it, but not when you're moving....
It's awesome on a motorway journey now..
snowtigger
15-06-2014, 23:38
Just a thought but what is lotus solution to this do they have a dual mass flywheel or a specific one, surely they've come up with a solution ?
My clutch chatters at idle when cold so I bet I wouldn't notice , and I'm always reaching for a 6th gear at motorway speeds ahum.
Paul Woods
16-06-2014, 07:09
The Evora is dual mass, bollocks to that.
This is something that also rears its head on the Avensis when owners switch to a normal flywheel following a dual mass failure.
It can be tuned out with the Helix and possibly a turbo flywheel, any gear rattle after that will have to be lived with as there is nothing else we can do about it.
snowtigger
16-06-2014, 08:03
Ok I hate dual mass as well after replacing the transit diesels with a ford solid flywheel and clutch kit, they wouldn't admit it's a faulty product this dual mass bollocks as the first symptom of it going wrong is the starter packs up because the metal particles from the flywheel rubbing together all go into the starter motor, next if you buy a new starter the clutch goes pop.
So you have to buy a new starter at £90 then a full solid flywheel and clutch kit at £350 (with discount because you argued with the parts guy ) mondeo have the same problem as the share the Diesel engines, my mate George fixs a ford diesel clutch at least once a week at his garage.
He does say the bell housing inside is a a lovely shot peened and shiny.
gavsdavs
16-06-2014, 09:32
Barry suggested that maybe 'LTDs' (long travel dampers) might help. Google "exedy clutch fundamentals' and you'll find a PDF which is very informative...
snowtigger
16-06-2014, 09:47
Just a thought and they are mega expensive and would still need drilling to fit but what about these http://www.maperformance.com/clutch-masters-725-Series-twin-clutch-kit-91-95-toyota-mr2-2.0l-turbo.html
Just an idea of it being like a dual mass and being progressive maybe just a different take on the idea .
Paul Woods
16-06-2014, 09:59
The problem with fine tuning a resonance is you have to trial and error fit the parts, so that $1400 clutch/flywheel may end up doing nothing, or it could cancel out the gear rattle altogether... not a cheap way to find out.
By the sounds of it the Helix/Fidanza combo makes it negligible, we noticed raising the idle RPM to 900 also stops it rattling at idle and that is with the noisy ACT clutch.
snowtigger
16-06-2014, 10:03
Hmm my idle could do with raising then?
Paul Woods
16-06-2014, 21:25
You don't have gear rattle or a 6 speed mate
Interesting read, looks like a Helix/Fidanza combo it is then. Oh aye and a supercharger.
gavsdavs
11-08-2014, 09:28
So mine's had a new exhaust. The mid section was starting to get blowy and I wanted rid of the mongoose 2 inch entry restriction.
So Hayward and Scott were enlisted, they've done me a mid section & silencer. Apparently the headers were 2.25 inch exit, so 2.25 in was used to the Y join and 2&7/8 afterwards to the silencer.
Sounds quite different now, more reminiscent of a BMW straight 6 at idle and believe it or not like an eagle speedster at high rpm (H&S make the 'factory' exhaust for the eagle so this isn't that surprising.
Will get video when I can get to a place when I can get over 4k rpm.
Have 2000 miles round Europe coming up to take video on :-)
cdwood2010
11-08-2014, 11:36
Does that mean another RR test tof confirm?
And Is the mongoose for sale?
C.
gavsdavs
11-08-2014, 12:14
The mongoose is for sale @ £150. I'll get to srr in the near future, I am curious about what the engine is now producing..
gavsdavs
24-08-2014, 10:02
The conditions under which the gearbox rattles -
Low RPM and large amounts of throttle and up to about 2kpm - labouring the engine.
Above that it disappears, at low amounts of throttle it's minimal.
You occasionally notice it, but not when you're moving....
It's awesome on a motorway journey now..
140+mpg on an autobahn.
http://yourpics.twobrutal.co.uk/albums/userpics/10024/140.JPG
Looks like 5th gear :)
ayresyboy
24-08-2014, 22:32
Wow! Did she feel nice n stable?
Wow! Did she feel nice n stable?I was going to ask exactly the same thing, Andy.
snowtigger
24-08-2014, 23:00
Would be interesting to see how stable a mk1 or mk3 would be at that speed.
gavsdavs
24-08-2014, 23:17
On German autobahns, yes. Chasing a 458 down the Italian med coast through the tunnels was fun (wasn't quite that fast)....noises in the tunnels were in excellent...
njccmd2002
23-09-2014, 04:36
hi, in this picture
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/241.jpg
can you supply the part numbers for the relays please. And does it really make a difference? as far from putting the afr on a relay?
gavsdavs
30-11-2014, 09:44
Another MOT passed.
- Added some cancer bars
- Repainted passenger door
- new tyres all round
CO - 2.286% vol (limit 3.5)
HC - 330ppm vol (limit 1200)
snowtigger
30-11-2014, 09:48
Same as my mot figures near enough
cdwood2010
30-11-2014, 09:51
hi, in this picture
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/10/241.jpg
can you supply the part numbers for the relays please. And does it really make a difference? as far from putting the afr on a relay?
Don't think anyone answered this.
Standard mr2 starter relay. The relay for the heated O2 sensors is used because there's a massive draw on power, not really something you want to feed through the wiring loom.
C.
cdwood2010
30-11-2014, 09:52
Another MOT passed.
- Added some cancer bars
- Repainted passenger door
- new tyres all round
CO - 2.286% vol (limit 3.5)
HC - 330ppm vol (limit 1200)
Winny win win.
What shoes did you go with?
C.
gavsdavs
30-11-2014, 10:28
toyos on the front and falkens on the rears.
planning on a wheel/suspension change in the new year - the offsets on my rotas aren't good (and they're all buckled now to a degree)
May the V6 MR2's live forever.
cdwood2010
30-11-2014, 12:31
May the V6 MR2's live forever.
Someone's up early on a Sunday.....
:)
Great news on the mot Gavs.
How clean these 2grs burn without cats always amazes me.
Paul Woods
27-02-2015, 18:59
Ok so an issue reared its head on Gavs car, basically he started having problems a few months ago with the ECU going into safe mode on sustained 40min 70mph motorway stints, around town and general driving everything was fine, but as soon as he had motorway to do and kept at a constant speed at 70mph within 40 minutes it would throw its toys out.
A pretty obscure fault, and i've been helping him behind the scenes to diagnose it. We managed to tie the timescale of the fault down to a recent exhaust downpipe change at a specialist company, that appeared to be the time the problem started, but with all things mechanical it could well have been an issue with the original conversion, but it did strike me as odd that thousands of perfect miles had gone by without a problem, exhaust changed then issues.
Anyway remote diagnosis wasn't getting us anywhere, so Gav agreed to bring it back. I spoke to Marc briefly about it last night and he must have 2gr Jedi mind trick skills as he nailed the issue first time.... i still think he was lucky :)
The issue was blowing exhaust flanges, both front and rear banks where Marcs headers meet the downpipes were blowing past the gaskets, this upsets the AFR sensors just a few inches downstream enough for the ECU to go into safe mode over a sustained period of time, it starts with a few random multiple misfires logged as pending codes, and soon after become full on codes, then when enough is enough safe mode.
The exhaust company warped the flanges, an issue i was actually well aware of, but i take precautions against it on my conversions, i Tig weld the flanges in such a way that any warping happens convexly as opposed to concavely if you get my drift, sadly there was at least a 1mm gap on both flanges....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2015/02/294.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2015/02/295.jpg
I spent a few hours with a powerful flatbed belt sander to get them flat again and new gaskets have been ordered....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2015/02/296.jpg
This is the second time a company has carried out exhaust work and caused a problem for us, this issue has plagued Gav for quite some time.
Anyway all fixed now and Gav won't be getting a bill from me, so these days i'm doing warranty work for other people by the look of it!
Sincere thanks to Marc for his lucky guess...... sorry! I mean expert help :)
gavsdavs
27-02-2015, 19:34
This has indeed been winding me up for months. For some reason when you're doing variable revs it doesn't appear. Sit it on a bypass and it goes into safe mode in 30 minutes.
Nice write up - just a useful note for those who end up changing their exhausts. The exhaust is a nice piece of kit but it sounds like there is additional woodsport wisdom in Pauls.
Marc - you do seem telepathic - the soot marks on the flanges look like a dead giveaway. You couldn't really hear the exhaust blowing. Well I couldn't, I thought it was *normal*.
Paul - let me know when you've done 45 minutes at motorway speeds in it.
I will reward you with your choice of
- Uncomfortably long lasting hugs.
- Hob nobs.
- Reacharounds.
- Verbal abuse for being such a smartarse.
gavsdavs
27-02-2015, 19:37
So did the warp occur at weld time or after a few heat cycles ?
cdwood2010
27-02-2015, 19:37
Well done, like you say its probably not something that you would guess as being high on the list. I guess it shows you how delicate the ecosystem is on one of these engines. It didn't go into safe mode for fun, it did it as a reaction to a fault. Clever Japs.
I'm sure Gav will appreciate your commitment, and have Stroopwafels or suchlike in hand come collection day.
:)
Paul Woods
27-02-2015, 19:40
It happens during welding Gav.
Chris hopefully this post helps someone else with a similar problem, this was especially tricky to nail down.
:icon_mrgreen:
It's not so much skill as it is a method of survival. Over the years i've gotten enough PMs/emails for little issues with the 2GR that i have a pretty clear picture of the issues that can come up with it. If i did not, the questions would never end!
The reason for the timing the way it is probably has to do with heat. when you drive on the highway like that for long enough things get good and hot and the clearances increase and let more air in to foul the O2 reading.
honestly it's a bit surprising given the way the exhaust look. it looks like top work!
As for the copper gaskets, most of the time they are reusable but they only run $9 each to replace.
gavsdavs
27-02-2015, 19:46
:icon_mrgreen:
The reason for the timing the way it is probably has to do with heat. when you drive on the highway like that for long enough things get good and hot and the clearances increase and let more air in to foul the O2 reading.
Oddly, it doesn't do it on a track day. I suppose I don't often drive for longer than 30 minute sessions on a track (with this exhaust), but it will happily do variable speed work for hours.
As Chris says - the ecu is a clever box of tricks and fails safe for good reasons.
Yeah, the stock ECU is quite amazing on this motor. it's just a shame we can't tweak it here and there to our liking a bit more.
the more surprising thing than anything is how tame the ECU makes the motor, it's a very civilized monster with it. With the AEM it's just a brute that tries to kill you at every opportunity.
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