Lasse's v6 swap

[Lasse]

Hi!

Been reading about swaps in here for a little while, and when i bought another mr2 i tought that it was now or never!
I currently own a -91 with 3gen 3sgte witch i love, spent ridicolous money on it over the years (92+ brakes, h&r springs, yellow koni's, all poly bushings, 2 piece 18" alloys, full respray+++++) bought that one bone stock down to the 14" alloys 8 years ago.
But enough about that: earlier this year i bought a real cheap banger of a mr2, had some body issues in the front (crashed) and a really crappy 3sge.
Changed the scrapped bits and the engine to a healthier 3sge, and got it "eu approved" a kind of MOT here in Norway.
Came across a kind of banger camry also, with 364.000km at the clock it certainly has done a few miles... But the HG with head skimming, timingbelt, waterpump and valve seals where done at 351.000km, and the engine seems healthy, so i bought it.

I've taken the 3vzfe out of the camry now, bought a fidanza alloy fly, new flywheel bolts from toyota (not cheap here in Norway either!!), also got me a afm adaptor, an air filter, clutch and the fourth engine mount (from woodsport).

The thing now is that my girlfriend leaves for her mothers on monday, so then i will have a few days in the garage:cool:

But it is something im not really that into, it's the wiring... I am an electrician by trade, so splicing the wires should not be a problem, but witch wires to connect together is my problem, been searching the forums alot, but havent seem to find "the idiots guide" in here anywhere, anybody who knows?

I seem to have problems uploading pictures, is there no way to upload directly to the forum from my computer?

[hmmmmm]

Hi there and welcome to the club! There is a wiring guide that Paul (Woodsport) made which is pretty idiot proof, you can get it in the download section after becoming a big member. Definitely worth the tenner if youre doing the swap at home, all the info is there and a 3vz-fe or 1mz swap is pretty standard around here, so you wont have any problems getting you're questions answered.

Pics can be uploaded to something like imageshack. Although i think it might be restricted untill youve got a few post's up, to stop the spamming i guess. When a mod like chris or paul comes by this thread they might lift the restriction for you. We love pictures :)

[Lasse]

Aha! Big member it is then!
I see these swaps are very common for you UK guys, here in Norway 3sgte seems to be the way, I've just heard about one other v6 in a mk2 up here, and that was turbo converted just to be sure.
Seems I need an imageshack account then, a thread without pics is just boring...

[hmmmmm]

That was quick :) Nice going, the wiring guide alone is worth it imho!

I think weve had a build thread for that 3VZ-FTE here, piece of art. Havent heard anything about it for a while now, hope its still driving around. Ive driven both a turbo and a V6, the sensation is very different. The V6 has power everywhere and makes it much more fun to drive. And the sound is just mental :eusa_clap: It doesnt have the ferocity though of a turbo, so a combination would be perfect, i guess thats wy im adding 2 :rolleyes:.

Dont know if youre using google but with every google account you also get 1GB to upload photos, thats what i use on forums. There are also some alternatives like http://tinypic.com/ (just google for picture upload, loads of choices). To add an image just add these tags XXX, with the url of the image in place of the XXX.

[racerADS]

Hi there.

Welcome to the club. Looking forward to seeing your pictures. Everything you need is on here, the guys are really helpful. Good luck with the swap.

Adam

[Lasse]

As far as i know the 3zvfte not in the car anymore, a standard 3sge is in its place, a damn shame! But all of us here in Norway with cars that is tuned/engine swapped in is afraid of the dmv, they are a pain in the a.. when it comes to non standard cars, and i guess he didnt want to take the risk anymore.
I hope the 3vzfe will be a fun car to drive, it will be my winter toy, the turbo spends the winterhalf of the year in a heated garage, they use so much salt on the roads here in the winter, so im afraid it will rust away, and since it has absolutely no rust and is in such good shape i will not let the rust eat it away.
But the 3vz mr2 is already in such a bad shape it dosent matter :icon_rolleyes:

[cdwood2010]

Hello and welcome to TB!

I use photobucket - very easy to upload pics (smart phone app etc) and easy to link to your messages.

Paul's 3VZ guide may not be in the download section any more, he withdrew it after someone wired their car wrong and tried to sue!

I have some notes I found that literally tell you which wires to connect, but that's about it.

Pm me your email address and I will send them across.

Chris.

[Lasse]

Aha, that's why i couldnt find it, some people just have to ruin the fun for the rest of us.
I will PM you my email adress, thank you very much!!

Now, lets try to upload som photos...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg

[Lasse]

Ooops, that didnt seem right...
But while we wait for me to sort out the photo issue, heres a youtube clip of the turbo, a few years back, before the respray amongst other things...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6CTi4FN72w

[Lasse]

Trying some pics again...

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/392.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/393.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/394.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/395.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/396.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/397.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/398.jpg

[Lasse]

Thats better! Photobucket did the trick:icon_smile:
Needless to say, the red one is my pride and joy, the black one is the banger.
Will try to take some more photos when i get some more hours in the garage next week.

[cdwood2010]

Nice pics! Loving your toys sir!

:)

C.

[racerADS]

Love a nice red mr2.

[cdwood2010]

Hi mate, emailed you back on the address you PM'd me.

Chris.

[MMaddict]

Nice red MR2!

Welcome btw :)


What clutch are you going to use? And did you get a Fuel Pressure regulator (FPR) yet?

[Lasse]

Thank you all!

I have now sorted out the wiring bit i hope, at least i have some guides to follow.
I'm going to use a bastard between a 3sge and 3sgte clutch, a 3sgte pressure plate, and a 3sgte clutch disk with custom 3sge splines (or so i hope, will talk ta a clutch shop on monday since they have summer vacation this week) of that fails, i will just have to use a 3sge disk instead.

Hmm, fpr? Do i need one?

[snowtigger]

Caldina clutch plate fits an na gearbox pattern splines.

[cdwood2010]

3vz-fe - you don't need an FPR but it's always an option.

C.

[MMaddict]

This is what Im hookinh up to my S54 this weekend

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg

Its a stage II (kevlar reiforced) Caldina diameter friction disc with S54 splines, same Flywheel as you got (130881), NA release bearing and a StageII GT4/Turbo (E153) pressure plate.

Tripod is using the same Friction disc.

[Lasse]

That look sweet!
Where do you get the caldina friction plate?
As for the fpr, the stock will have to do, this is just a lowcost build, just to try something new.

[Lasse]

Is there anyone who knows how long the belt to the alternator has to be?
I've removed the a/c pump and therefore the belt is way too long...

[Paul Woods]

930mm-950mm 6 rib

[MMaddict]

That look sweet!
Where do you get the caldina friction plate?
As for the fpr, the stock will have to do, this is just a lowcost build, just to try something new.

I bought the pressure plate, friction disc and NA bearing from Black Diamond in the UK. I paid aprox. £230 incl. tax and shipment to the Netherlands.

[Lasse]

930mm-950mm 6 rib

Thanks!!

Will have to buy one of those then.

As for the clutch, it will be an option for me if the clutch workshop can't help me, i already have a Brand new 3sgte plate, and a worn down 3sge plate, i'm kinda hoping they can mix them togheter for me at a reasonable price.

[cdwood2010]

As for the fpr, the stock will have to do, this is just a lowcost build, just to try something new.

If you want to do a budget build, then you may find this thread very handy.

Project BBQ!

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=18638

Chris.

[MMaddict]

Thanks!!

Will have to buy one of those then.

As for the clutch, it will be an option for me if the clutch workshop can't help me, i already have a Brand new 3sgte plate, and a worn down 3sge plate, i'm kinda hoping they can mix them togheter for me at a reasonable price.

You can't use a E153 (3sgte) friction plate on a S54 (3sge) transmission. The Splines are different.

what transmission are you going to use?


The cheapest option on the S54 transmission (NA) is: a NA bearing, a Turbo/GT4 pressure plate and a 3SGE pressure plate.

cheapest on a E153 (Turbo) transmission is: A full turbo/ 3sgte clutch setup.

[Lasse]

I've red your build thread Chris, good job!
I'm afraid that my budget has plast yours a long time ago, mostly because cars are much more expensive here in Norway, by example the mr2 I bought cost me about 950£ and that is cheap here, even for a banger with a broken down engine...

As for the clutch i know that, that's why i'm hoping the clutch workshop can fit the splines from the na clutch to the turbo friction plate.

I'm using the s54 transmission for this build.

[MMaddict]

I've red your build thread Chris, good job!
I'm afraid that my budget has plast yours a long time ago, mostly because cars are much more expensive here in Norway, by example the mr2 I bought cost me about 950£ and that is cheap here, even for a banger with a broken down engine...

As for the clutch i know that, that's why i'm hoping the clutch workshop can fit the splines from the na clutch to the turbo friction plate.

I'm using the s54 transmission for this build.

Would they charge you (alot) of import tax if you where to ship it from the UK?

[Lasse]

Would they charge you (alot) of import tax if you where to ship it from the UK?

I'm afraid so... Not so much if you just want to use it as a donor car, og use it without plates, then it's just 25% import tax.
But if you want licence plates on the car it's a different story, even if the car is cheap, they charge you what they call a registration fee, i just checked how much it would be for a 1991 mr2, about 3500£!!! And that's not included the 25% import tax or the cost of the car!!
Norway is a hopeless country for car junkies like me...

[Lasse]

Ooops, i Saw now that i misread the question, only 25% import tax on car parts, so it's ok

[Lasse]

Been busy at the garage these two nights, I've removed the 3sge and got the 3vz up in i'ts place.
So now I've started with the coolant hoses and such.
And what do the good people in here do with the fuel line? I'ts obviously too short, mean I've read something about a barb, but does that cope with the pressure?

And the mandatory pics...

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/437.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/438.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/439.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/440.jpg

I'm sorry that I don't have the "I'm standing where the engine should be" picture, kind of hard to do when you're working alone...

[cdwood2010]

Awesome progress! Especially working on your own (do take care!)

I tend to do the wiring first, once I know it's working I get around to the plumbing.

Fuel lines - the return is easy, replace with some 6mm reinforced pipe.

Fuel feed - cut the metal collar from both ends of the fuel pipe, prise it open carefully and remove the rubber pipe. You should be able to see the barbs on each end once the rubber is cut away. Replace with some 8mm reinforced fuel line and jubilee clips to secure it.

Hope this helps!

C.



I was going to build myself a Tardis but I just don't have the time or the space....

[Paul Woods]

I manage to fit the stock v6 fuel feed pipe without cutting it, just move the filter a little.

[cdwood2010]

I manage to fit the stock v6 fuel feed pipe without cutting it, just move the filter a little.

Also a very good idea!

:)




I was going to build myself a Tardis but I just don't have the time or the space....

[Lasse]

Thank's for the ideas!
I'll see what I can manage:icon_biggrin:
As for working alone, I always take care of myself, me and two of my mates rent a workshop together, and it has a lifting device ( not sure what it's called in english, in norwegian it's called a løftebukk), so there is no way the car can fall down, and with the engine lifter engine swaps is a piece of cake, even when you're working alone:icon_cool:

[MMaddict]

Thank's for the ideas!
I'll see what I can manage:icon_biggrin:
As for working alone, I always take care of myself, me and two of my mates rent a workshop together, and it has a lifting device ( not sure what it's called in english, in norwegian it's called a løftebukk), so there is no way the car can fall down, and with the engine lifter engine swaps is a piece of cake, even when you're working alone:icon_cool:

You are going to beat me on that swap! (Except I was abroad 4 months and I got my engine in bits and pieces as a DIY kit)

Am I right if I assume your transmission shop was able to adjust your clutch for you?

I see you still have the EGR on the engine, are you going to keep it on there?

[Lasse]

Hehe, just trying to get things going as fast as possible, godt the wiring sorted today, and the Fuel lines, just the rest to go...
Doing this swap with an engine in bits and pieces is alot harder! As for the happy amateur i am, i probably would not have completed a swap like this if i didnt have a complete Camry to begin with.
The clutch shop could not help me, they could have Made me a sinter friction plate, but that would cost me alot more than the standard 3sge i ended up buying...

The egr would have breen long gone if i just had som block off plates, but it's staying for now, the vacuum hoses going to it has breen blocked off though, this will make it stay closed if i'm not mistaking?

[cdwood2010]

Hi,

What clutch have you fitted? A regular standard clutch will not hold.

I fitted an exedy one (because i hD one) and it slipped from day #1. Going to have to change it soon.

Chris.



I was going to build myself a Tardis but I just don't have the time or the space....

[Lasse]

Hi,

What clutch have you fitted? A regular standard clutch will not hold.

I fitted an exedy one (because i hD one) and it slipped from day #1. Going to have to change it soon.

Chris.



I was going to build myself a Tardis but I just don't have the time or the space....

I've got a turbo pressure plate and a standard NA friction plate, I was told that this would hold as long as I stay NA with the v6.
But if it dosent then I will change it when time comes, now I just want it to be ready so I can drive the damn thing:cool:

[cdwood2010]

That should be ok. There's not enough clamping force on an n/a pressure plate, but that setup should be fine.

The EGR you can remove later by the way, but you might be right about removing the vacuum pipes.

Contact AdamH for a tasty set of blanking plates!

C.


I was going to build myself a Tardis but I just don't have the time or the space....

[Lasse]

I've heard about the NA pressure plate being a little weak, got the tip from 3VZ-FE in here via the norwegian Toyota forum, he drove with that setup before turbo converting his engine.
Thanks for the notes by the way, i have just a few things to sort out before trying to fire up the beast!

[Lasse]

Got it started today!!!
BUT! It's not all good, at first i had problems with the alternator not giving any juice, but that's sorted, I connected the wrong black/yellow in the fusebox...
And eventually the engine started to stall, first it ran mayby slightly short of a minute, then a little shorter, and shorter and shorter.
The last thing i checked before i left the garage was that tre green/red from the afm was connected to the cor relay.
But when the engine runs for a shorter period of time every time you start it, wouldnt that mean that it's probably a Fuel problem? Or is most likely cor related? Any ideas anyone?
It dose not throw any codes either...

[Paul Woods]

Ok, i'm winding my diagnostic baseball bat right up to smack this one right out of the park first try and with very little info to go from....

I might get it wrong, BUT here goes, i don't think you have your harness earthed properly, and the ECU is using the EFI temp sensor for its grounds.

As the temp increases (the more you try to run the engine) the temp sensor diminishes its continuity to ground and the ECU has nothing to use as an earth, and the engine cuts out.

First thing i'd check is the earthing point is attached on the ACIS bolt and not your rear cam cover, common mistake.

I've seen this very symptom before so it wouldn't surprise me if that is it.

[cdwood2010]

Or it's out of petrol.

;)

[Lasse]

Thanks guys, now i have something to try, I will check my earthing:eusa_angel:
It just maybe out of petrol, i had about half a tank when I started, but the 3vz seems to be thirsty:laugh2:

[Lasse]

Found out of the problem, the Fuel pump does not get any power, added 12v directly to it and the car started and worked perfectly.
I found a Fuel pump resistor (part no 23080-62010) in my big pile of bits and bobs from the Camry, with cut wires on it.
Is this something I've forgotten to fit somewhere? Maybe it should have never been cut if it's a part of the engine harness...

[Paul Woods]

Oh boobs, i failed.... right attempt number two, earth the white/black stripe wire on your AFM plug, (not the black/white stripe wire!) , just T into it and run it to ground, let us know if it runs doing that.

[Lasse]

Thanks alot, will try this tomorrow:icon_biggrin:
I've talked to a mate of mine today also, if I get my licence plates before friday and drive the car to his workshop, he will weld up my exhaust:icon_biggrin:
I'm using a hks legal turbo exhaust, i hope the sound will be sweet!

[Lasse]

Oh boobs, i failed.... right attempt number two, earth the white/black stripe wire on your AFM plug, (not the black/white stripe wire!) , just T into it and run it to ground, let us know if it runs doing that.

Second time's a winner!!!
Thank you very much my good man!

[Paul Woods]

Good stuff, i'll now explain why it isn't working as it should be, your oil level switch is knackered, or the wiring plug to it is faulty. The 3vz uses the oil level switch to control the AFM/COR earth circuit..... it's a failsafe, in case you run low of oil, it cuts the earth path to the AFM and the engine will not get fuel, cut out and save your bottom end from destruction.

Clever folks those little japs.

[Lasse]

Aha! Clever indeed!
What would I do without you guys? (probably get stuck with the old boring 3sge...)
My licence plates will arrive thursday or friday I hope, can't wait to try it on the streets!
Just been driving it out of the garage and inside again...
Have been bleeding the coolant lines also, seems to be air free now, and the radiator heats up nicely.

[Lasse]

Todays update: I've got the license plates!
The v6 is very loud with my homemade crappy exhaust, but that will be sorted by my mate this weekend.
Sweet sound when the acis kicks in!!

BUT! Now I need a new driveshaft, it was not in the best shape, but I thought "when it breaks, it breaks!" and it did, on my way home from the garage:icon_mrgreen:

[MMaddict]

Todays update: I've got the license plates!
The v6 is very loud with my homemade crappy exhaust, but that will be sorted by my mate this weekend.
Sweet sound when the acis kicks in!!

BUT! Now I need a new driveshaft, it was not in the best shape, but I thought "when it breaks, it breaks!" and it did, on my way home from the garage:icon_mrgreen:

You can just drive up to a random garage with a very loud exhaust and it will get approved?

[Lasse]

Absolutely not, the garage is my workshop, that two of my mates and I rent.
The car is not approved by anyone, got the norwegian kind of MOT when the 3sge was still in the car...
Engine changes and such things are mostly taboo up here in the north, se have very strict rules by the goverment, and they hardly approve anything...
But the car will be much quieter when my mate gets the exhaust welded up.

[Lasse]

Oh happy day!!
The exhaust is all welded up, and I've got a new driveshaft fitted, the car drives like a dream, and the sound is amazing!

[Torero]

Nice one Lasse :thumbsup: the V6 certainly makes a massive difference to the feel of the car.

What induction have you got? A nice big cone helps drag cold air in by the bucket load and also sounds the nuts.

[Lasse]

Most definitely!!
Although I'm used to my other mr2 (turbo, 294rwhp) the v6 is a different experience, the torque beeing available the second you put your foot down.
I run with an apexi open air filter, it sounds like a million dollars!!

[Lasse]

Anyone have a cure for the engine stalling from time to time?
The engine wont idle sometimes, just dies out when i'm sitting at a red light, when I start it up again it idles just fine.
I believe I've read something about this on the forum sometime, but can't seem to find it now...

[mrT]

Have a read of my post, about the pocvip mod..

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?19635-MrT-s-twist-on-P-O-C-V-I-P-S-mod

All will make sense and u have a step by step guide on how to resolve it..

[cdwood2010]

Strange, never had that problem.

C.

[Lasse]

Have a read of my post, about the pocvip mod..

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?19635-MrT-s-twist-on-P-O-C-V-I-P-S-mod

All will make sense and u have a step by step guide on how to resolve it..

That's the one!!! Thanks alot, will try this then.

[Lasse]

Did your mod mrT, and the problem with stalling is absolutely gone!
But it now the engine idles at about 1500-1700rpm...
When I did the mod I could not get the metal plunger out of the casing, so I could not get it all cleaned up.
Tried checking for vacuum leaks, but could not find any.
Also tried to clamp the vacuum hose going from the valve with a pair of pliers, the idle then went downpipe to approx 1200rpm.

I was thinking I would reverse the mod to see if it returns to normal idle again then.

[mrT]

Right o..
You will find that the car will need to be started five or 6 times before idle settles down,
I find mine idles at around 1200 when u 1st start up but drops down to 700 in a short while..

I take it you have fit the Camry rev counter board behind the mr2 clocks or modded the clock to show correct revs..

[Paul Woods]

I seem to post this once a month, the Camry tacho board will not work accurately in the Mr2 clocks, your tacho will be out by 10% at idle and as much as 20% at high revs. It is hardly any different than the stock Mr2 tacho.

The actual fix costs about £2 in Maplins parts and will get it 100% right.

[Lasse]

I have done my own "ghetto-style" rev counter mod, I've cut the numbers from the camry tacho, and the mr2 tacho and made myself a mix of them, used the camry tacho board aswell, it dosent look so neat, but hey, neither does the rest of the car...

When you say to start the car 5-6 times, is this something you do like start-stop, start-stop, start-stop and so on? Or start one time, drive a little, stop the engine, start it again drive a little and so on?

[Paul Woods]

After 3 or 4 start ups, engine on, idle for a few minutes, switch off, the ECU should have some basic maps learnt for idle.

If it still has a high idle after that then your throttle is partially open, or the ISCV is too far open, or you have a plenum air leak somewhere.

[mrT]

I found in my case when I tried to start the car it would turn off. Had to do it few times before it would stay on.. then initially it idled at 1400 or so and then dropped down to 700. Seems to do similar thing if I disconnect battery and reconnect, I have to try starting a few times before it stays on..

[Paul Woods]

Yep, Az that is normal 3vz behaviour, so i think in Lasse's case he has too much air going past the throttle or an air leak.

[Lasse]

Aha, will try the start-stop thing tomorrow.
But i'm afraid i opened the ISCV valve too much with my washer...

On the brigther side of things, i stumbled over a set of buddyclub racing p1 wheels last week, 8+9x17" with 28(front) and 37(rear) as the offsets, it looks really good on the car!