Smurfsters V6 MR2 Swap

[Smurfster]

Hi all. Just thought I'd set up a build thread on this instead of introductions!
Getting close to taking off the cams and heads now.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/12/131.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/12/132.jpg
Nasty looking in here.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/12/133.jpg
Old timing marks so she's had a belt at some stage
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/12/134.jpg
Well the crank pulley bolt didn't put up much of a battle after. I burned out a hole to suit a 19mm impact socket in piece of 50x50 box steel. I lined up the 2 dowel holes and drilled them. I then found the longest pipe I had and bang. Job done :)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/12/135.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/12/136.jpg
The timing belt had been change before but I'm not chancing it after seeing this.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/12/137.jpg
Crank pulley came off handy and lower cover. Next up I took off the alternator and removed the thermostat housing. Pretty grim looking in here
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/12/138.jpg
Next on the list is to remove the camshafts.

[Smurfster]

Meeting a bloke next Friday. He's going to pressure test and check the heads and re seat valves etc.....He's also taking the block to be flushed. Seems to me she was left up with some kind of rad weld in it?!
Got the cams and heads off yesterday
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/12/153.jpg
Rear bank off first. These 3 cylinders are fairly dirty looking but the gasket seemed to be working.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/12/154.jpg
The locker in the background came for a work job last week. Perfect timing. It's now fairly full of all parts labeled :)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/12/155.jpg
2 intake valves stuck open not sure why but hopefully not bent!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/12/156.jpg
The front bank was much cleaner.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/12/157.jpg
I'm enjoying the progress so far. Next move i think is oil sump & pump off. Take out oil baffle. A quick cleaning and off it goes for some tlc!

[mrT]

Valves are probably stuck open due to timing being out.. if u bend valves on this engine then something is seriously wrong.. this is a non interferance engine.. look at the crevices on the pistons,, they give the valve clearance in case the belt snaps.

[cdwood2010]

Interesting pics, how many miles on this engine? It looks pretty gooey so I'm guessing high mileage / old bloke driver.

That right hand cylinder in the pics looks like water contamination. Rad weld tends to be used on cars where water is going missing - cheap and nasty fix that doesn't really help if it's a HG fault. I would inspect the gasket carefully around that cylinder. If you can see slight leakage then happy days, else it might point to a fault on the head. Either way, these engines seem to respond very well to a rebuild, so you should have a good as new engine by the time it goes back in.

Keep those pics flowing, we fricken love them!

Chris.

[mrT]

Another thing I forgot to mention , by the looks of all that rust residue.. perhaps the engine has been run with plain water , and due to lack of antifreeze its cause the rusty residue.. could also explain the stuck valves..

[Smurfster]

All timing marks where matching up 100%. The spark plugs weren't tight on that side and the plug housing (not sure or name!) where very rusty inside. I'm thinking it was left out in the elements at some stage. I was allowing the valves were probably not bent mrT for those reasons possibly seized after being left in those positions? 120k on the clocks that came with it. All advice gladly welcome

Tristan

[mrT]

Aah well that explains it then.. 120k is nothing to these engines.. well known to last over 250k.
It's due to it being sat neglected that its began to rust.. I would suggest getting all the parts acid washed to clean all residue.. should be good once put back together

[SlipSlide]

The engine originally came from Paff I think;

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?11819-Ireland-s-1st-MR2-V6-Swap/page25&highlight=MOG7

Went to MOG7 in Ireland for his Mrk II swap which never happened

Then I bought it with the intention of stripping it down and rebuilding it at some stage to learn a bit of mechanic's craft, but alas I also decided to have two more kids at the time.

Tristan is making a fair bit more progress than I ever did on this one, well done and looking forward to the finished product.

[cdwood2010]

Yeah, 100k-130k is quite average, you regularly see them up for sale with 160k+ on them and still going strong.

By that kind of mileage though they are ready for a rebuild just to decoke and clean if nothing else.

Pats 120k Lexus ES300 engine was a non runner and soaked in rats p*ss so we rebuilt it as a precaution. It's been sound as a pound (much to my surprise!)

The engine we fitted to BBQ edition was 118k, nothing wrong with it so we literally just fitted it as was.

The current build is a 125k engine that I have been driving around with no issues. There are a couple of oil leaks from the cam covers, but other than sorting those it's probably going in as is.

The next one after that is an alleged 80k engine, and given that it's very clean is probably quite accurate. Might do some detailing work on it, but it looks newer than the grumpy 3S-GE that's in the two at present!

As a general rule I would say cam belt, oil & filter, plugs, as a given, and while the engine is out replace the exhaust manifold header bolts because they can be awkward if they are old.

If you are stripping and rebuilding the engine, then you might as well do everything you can while you're at it. MK2 mr2's are cheap as chips, but a recon 3VZ engine won't really depreciate. It will outlive pretty much any car you fit it in, so you can always transplant it again and again.

Chris.

[Smurfster]

Hi guys. What's the verdict on piston rings? To change or not to change. Happy new year!

[mrT]

spin the engine by hand and see how well the pistons move.. I didnt change the rings on mine, and lots of folks dont change them either.. however if the engine is stripped down to this degree it aint hard to just replace them.. only catch is if you are gonna go oversized pistons then a rebore is required..

[cdwood2010]

If you have crank in bits / pistons out then like said before, may as well go for broke.

Hone the bores, new rings and clean everything etc and you should be good for a while longer.

If you're not taking the crank out then I wouldn't bother. Focus on the head / light porting / reseating the valves etc.

IMHO of course!

C.

[Smurfster]

Sent off the heads and block yesterday to get checked out and cleaned up. Last few pics before I loaded it up

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/12/225.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/12/226.jpg

Won't know any more until the end of next week now!

[cdwood2010]

Excellent.

In the meantime have a beer. Or several.

Great work, we watch with interest!!

Chris.

[Smurfster]

No rest for the wicked. Happy new Year!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/12/242.jpg

[cdwood2010]

Well done, excellent adaptability there sir!

Chris.

[briweekes]

Refreshes those (engine) parts other beers cannot reach! Happy New Year and every success with the swap!

[Smurfster]

I've been tidying up a few bits while waiting on the block and heads to come back.
Rocker covers cleaned up and sprayed
Before
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/01/90.jpg
After
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/01/91.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/01/92.jpg
Engine cover primed and center sprayed
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/01/93.jpg
Finished
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/01/94.jpg
Next up is the plenum. I'm going with just black and silver. I was thinking all sorts of colours but keeping it simple for now
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/01/95.jpg

I dropped in the valve seals to the guy who's doing the heads for me tonight. He says the heads are not warped and in good overal condition. But I have a couple of bent valves. Not sure how this can be? It's a non interference engine and even if it wasn't all timing marks where %100 matching up before stripping it down? Any thoughts?! He says I should have it back Saturday week :)
Big thank you to Chris for the cd info. Should help big time with the rebuild!

[cdwood2010]

Hi mate,

Covers look good!

Valves may have bent from overheating, it would be interesting to know which ones. I'm guessing exhaust.

Chris.

[mrT]

Bent valves would explain them being stuck open..
As Chris says perhaps they've gotten bent due to heat..
This is indeed a non interference engine so valve should not bend unless someone took a shit load of the heads and reduced the gap between piston and valves

[Smurfster]

Hi mate,

Covers look good!

Valves may have bent from overheating, it would be interesting to know which ones. I'm guessing exhaust.

Chris.
Are the exhaust valves bigger?
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/12/156.jpg
If so I think they could be the culprits. He spun them to show me the slight wobble. Any idea on approximate cost?

[mrT]

The exhaust valves are indeed the larger diameter than the inlet valves.. the shaft thickness is the same bit according to Toyota the valve stem seals are slightly different size ..

[hmmmmm]

The intake seals are about 1 mm taller then the exhaust ones. Yet the exhaust valve is the bigger one, seeing as the gasses expand when ignited, they need a bigger exit hole.

Just call up the dealer and let them give you a price?

[mrT]

See when i did my build, I read the exact same thing that the intake seals are a mm taller however.. when I got my replacements they were all exactly the same size..
I posted a pic on my thread to ask the same question..
In the end I fit them..
Haven't driven the car yet but run it up to temp many times and seems fine so far

[cdwood2010]

I think (from memory) that they are made from different material.

We had a couple of sets and eventually decided that one 'type' were slightly taller but more interestingly were a slightly different colour, and we assumed a different temperature rating.

It might be worth comparing the ones that came off the heads.

All that having been said, the ES300 engine we used for Pats conversion had been dismantled and reassembled totally wrong. It still ran!

Chris.

[mrT]

I looked at the old seals that I took off my heads and they were all exactly the same too..

[SlipSlide]

Tristan how many of the exhaust valves are you looking for.

I have part number 13715-62030 as the exhaust valve part number for the 3VZ-FE, if anybody would know the number to verify. Call me tomorrow if you need a few toyota parts and I will see what I can do.

[Smurfster]

Tristan how many of the exhaust valves are you looking for.

I have part number 13715-62030 as the exhaust valve part number for the 3VZ-FE, if anybody would know the number to verify. Call me tomorrow if you need a few toyota parts and I will see what I can do.
Thanks Ray. I'll ring tomorrow and see how many and which ones are damaged.

[cdwood2010]

Thanks Ray. I'll ring tomorrow and see how many and which ones are damaged.

Did you get those valves sorted? I may have some.

C.

[Smurfster]

Did you get those valves sorted? I may have some.

C.

Thanks Chris. The guy that's doing it is getting them. Last update was 3 exhaust and 2 inlet valves. Should have it back next Saturday :eusa_pray:

[sturobturbo]

looks good, if not dirty, so far! lol. i love reading project pages.

[Smurfster]

Still no engine back yet :( The block was stripped today and it turns out we've a few issues here.
Pistons are good but the rings are caked. Main bearing and big end bearing are getting changed. Trust washers are also being replaced.
Parts will be in on Tuesday and he says I'm looking at the end of next week. Should be as good as new after this :)

[briweekes]

Bet you can't wait. Hope you are getting the rest of the kit ready (clutch, mount etc etc) in the meantime

[Smurfster]

Bet you can't wait. Hope you are getting the rest of the kit ready (clutch, mount etc etc) in the meantime

What clutch setup would you recommend Brian? Budget has been tightened up a bit. I'm looking at around €750 ish on the engine rebuild alone! Also any advice/links on modding the flywheel?
Regards Tristan

[cdwood2010]

What clutch setup would you recommend Brian? Budget has been tightened up a bit. I'm looking at around €750 ish on the engine rebuild alone! Also any advice/links on modding the flywheel?
Regards Tristan

Hi,

Which flywheel are you using, as that might decide your options.

The clutch plate itself has to match the gearbox (20 splines vs 21 splines) depending on wether it's turbo or non turbo.

The pressure plate needs to match the flywheel (turbo / n/a / fidanza etc).

We use re-drilled N/a flywheels, with an N/A clutch kit. Last one I fitted was an LUK clutch kit, which for under £70 is very good value and adequate for just driving.

If you drive like a twat, or plan on doing lots of track work, spend more money. A standard clutch will have a short life with harsh treatment.

C.

[briweekes]

What clutch setup would you recommend Brian? Budget has been tightened up a bit. I'm looking at around €750 ish on the engine rebuild alone! Also any advice/links on modding the flywheel?
Regards Tristan

I used the clutch friction disc from the F1 Racing Stage 1 kit for SW20 NA, which fitted the S54 N/A gearbox splines, and coupled that with the pressure plate from the F1 Racing Stage 1 turbo kit, which bolted up to my new Fidanza flywheel, total cost €580 or €339 without the flywheel. I stretched myself on that, although there are much more serious clutches available. Test mine and tell me what you think when you come visit this Sunday.

Some of the flywheel mods on here seem really do-able, like the one Chris mentions

[Smurfster]

Cheers guys. Would ideally like an LSD box set up. But at the moment I'm kinda funds restricted! I've read here somewhere about converting an n/a box using parts from an LSD mk3 box. Also I won't be to worried about mpg's as it wont be a daily driver, so Im not fussed about turbo/Na box.
Tristan

[Smurfster]

Update time! I called in to see what the progress was. Not good it seems. The 3 cylindes where I suspected water had entered via loose spark plugs are pitted. One in particular is bad.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/02/156.jpg
Would like your opinions on the options here. Do I line 3 cylinders or do I source a new block. Or do I hone her out and oversize pistons? Cost is the problem so where do I go from here?

[mrT]

No matter which angle u take it has a cost involved..
Simplest solution would be to hone the block nd get some larger pistons..
If your gonna sleave the block , I would do all the chambers not just 3..
Finding a new block won't be easy... But is the last extreme scenario.. wonder what it will cost tho
Always a possible issue when u buy a non runner. But we live and learn..

[cdwood2010]

My suggestion would be hone it out too. Like Az says, any option is going to involve cost, but not as much as if you fit a doomed engine.

Stick a wanted on here - I know theres a couple of blocks around between members.

Chris.

[Smurfster]

Cheers guys. Would I need 6 over sized pistons or hone just 3? As Chris say if I don't address the situation it's not goin to last? Bit of a bummer:( any idea on how much a single over sized piston would be?

[mrT]

Cheers guys. Would I need 6 over sized pistons or hone just 3? As Chris say if I don't address the situation it's not goin to last? Bit of a bummer:( any idea on how much a single over sized piston would be?

when ever I have read about a block being honed or sleaved, its usually all the cylinders,
there isnt anything to say you cant get away with having just 3 of the cylinders honed, but the question is , will it off balance the engine in any form or way.. only an experience engine builder can answer that.. Paul or perhaps someone else who builds engine might be worth asking before you decide which route to take..

[Paul Woods]

You've got to do all 6, going oversized on just 3 would result in a higher CC on one bank, i've no idea how it would run like that... plus you can get a full set of oversized pistons/rings from the US very very cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lexus-ES300-Toyota-Camry-V6-3-0L-Pistons-w-Rings-3VZFE-/300500930207?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item45f7404e9f

[mrT]

You've got to do all 6, going oversized on just 3 would result in a higher CC on one bank, i've no idea how it would run like that... plus you can get a full set of oversized pistons/rings from the US very very cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lexus-ES300-Toyota-Camry-V6-3-0L-Pistons-w-Rings-3VZFE-/300500930207?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item45f7404e9f

:fab: see I knew Paul would know...lol

[cdwood2010]

He's like the Justin Beeber of MR2's.

Isn't he just a dreamboat?

:)

[Paul Woods]

I'm an obnoxious little shit with an overenflated ego?

oh.... i get your point...

[cdwood2010]

I'm an obnoxious little shit with an overenflated ego?

oh.... i get your point...

Hang on, who are we on about?

:-0

[Smurfster]

Brilliant work Mr Woods. Donation made! 6 new pistons to be ordered. I was wondering about an imbalance if only 3 cylinders where done. I was guesstimating €100 a pop.
Thanks for all the help guys really appreciated.

[aussiemr2]

If I can add my 2c worth I used ACL Duralites in my rebuild and they are actually made by Mahle

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Toyota-3VZFE-ACL-Duralite-Pistons-75mm-set-/380406826798?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item589203872e

Very high quality

This is a pic before I took them out and got them ceramic coated

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/02/168.jpg

[briweekes]

If I can add my 2c worth I used ACL Duralites in my rebuild and they are actually made by Mahle


Very high quality

pic before I took them out and got them ceramic coated

Wow, they look incredible just from that pic!

[Smurfster]

Wow is right. I think if my block is as shiny as that I'll be tempted to put a glass top on it and stick it in my living room! I may get measurements on sizes and place orders.
Thanks Brian for a spin in the beast today. It's a real credit to you. If I start lacking in motivation I'll be down again for another go!

[briweekes]

Thanks Brian for a spin in the beast today. It's a real credit to you. If I start lacking in motivation I'll be down again for another go!

No problem Smurfster, I'm still totally blown away by it. I was shaking with adrenalyn when I got out of the car today. Take your time and do it right.

[aussiemr2]

Wow is right. I think if my block is as shiny as that I'll be tempted to put a glass top on it and stick it in my living room! I may get measurements on sizes and place orders.
Thanks Brian for a spin in the beast today. It's a real credit to you. If I start lacking in motivation I'll be down again for another go!

You have worked out my plan for the spare block I kept ;-), may not end up as shiny as too pricey to get it honed but stick a couple of led lights in it should be pretty cool

[Smurfster]

You've got to do all 6, going oversized on just 3 would result in a higher CC on one bank, i've no idea how it would run like that... plus you can get a full set of oversized pistons/rings from the US very very cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lexus-ES300-Toyota-Camry-V6-3-0L-Pistons-w-Rings-3VZFE-/300500930207?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item45f7404e9f
6 pistons ordered. Now the anxious wait begins!

[Smurfster]

Look what the postman dropped in today
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/02/257.jpg
The build continues:biggrin:

[Paul Woods]

Did you have to pay any import duty Smurf? Or is it just this shithole mainland that we get stung on?

[Smurfster]

Did you have to pay any import duty Smurf? Or is it just this shithole mainland that we get stung on?

Hi Paul. I left a note asking they send it as a gift with little or no value:SmackBottom:
It worked fine and I can't believe how quick they arrived! Thanks again for the link
Tristan

[cdwood2010]

Hi Paul. I left a note asking they send it as a gift with little or no value:SmackBottom:
It worked fine and I can't believe how quick they arrived! Thanks again for the link
Tristan

Love it. I've done that with stuff.

So far no knock on the door.

:-)

[Smurfster]

Update time! All bits and pieces have been collected and are now back in the shed for reassemble ;)
0.5 oversized pistons (not sure on cc difference?)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/02/350.jpg

Block nice and smooth (metal HG's in the future?)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/02/351.jpg

Sump prepared ready to be put on.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/02/352.jpg
Next job is to put the heads back on and torque up!

[cdwood2010]

Very nice work!

That sump is going to look mighty pretty! Never seen one that colour before!

:)

[Smurfster]

Heads are torqued on and I've started getting the cam covers back on. Starting to look good :)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/70.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/71.jpg

Cleaned the rocker cover bolts and new washer seals.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/72.jpg

All new seals and gaskets. Might get a bit more done at it tonight
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/73.jpg

[cdwood2010]

Did you remember to set the backlash cogs on the cams?

We forgot. Had to do them in the car on JapScrap !

:)

[Smurfster]

Did you remember to set the backlash cogs on the cams?

We forgot. Had to do them in the car on JapScrap !

:)
Tell me more please?!

[cdwood2010]

Ok, the two cogs in the middle of the cams have spring loadings on them. This stops the cams being sloppy, and you can actually hear the difference when they're done / not done correctly.

If you have the WSM then it's probably easier to flick through that and familiarise yourself.

Basically remove the slave cams on each head, tension the cog and refit.

You must however fit the cams in a specific way so you don't snap them when you bolt them down.

Let me know if you need more - it's not as scary as it sounds though!

Chris.

[Smurfster]

Cheers Chris. I'm going to ring the guy who checked the valve clearance and see did he do it. All seems tight at the moment maybe it's different when it's running.

[cdwood2010]

Yeah, you can't actually tell.

I think ours was assembled incorrectly in the first place, before we rebuilt it.

But the tune of the engine changed once we refitted the cams.

Chris.

[Smurfster]

Yeah, you can't actually tell.

I think ours was assembled incorrectly in the first place, before we rebuilt it.

But the tune of the engine changed once we refitted the cams.

Chris.

Thanks for the heads up on that Chris. I have the backlash figured out:praise2:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/75.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/76.jpg
Need to source a timing belt kit now
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/77.jpg

[cdwood2010]

No problem, glad you could benefit from our mistake!

Timing belt - here you go:-

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=400150342893&index=18&nav=WATCHING&nid=20812037846

Also, another couple of tips that we learned the hard way...

Check the condition of the manifold header bolts. If they're rough, it can make bolting up the exhaust a right pain.

Also thread lock the gearbox mount plates front and back before you fit the engine to the car.

Oh, and turn it all over by hand every step of the way. This last build locked up because the fly bolts were 1mm too long! Gearbox had to come back out to sort it! I was livid!

There's probably more, but hopefully you're not as big a twat as me !

C.

[wood_patrick]

Good call on the backlash cogs big bro!

Easily missed though to be fair smurf. They aren't difficult really it's just frustrating when you miss something and don't realise till you've finished! When we first realised (thanks to Paul Woods I might add) we thought it was gonna mean getting both cams out and were well miffed. Lol. Anyway, looking like the dogs danglies very nice! :-)

[Smurfster]

So Ive been adding a few more bits on to my 3vz. I'm waiting on a new timing belt kit.
A new thermostat complements of Brian. Thanks!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/219.jpg
New water pump. Note the metal impeller. Hope this is the right one that Mr Woods discovered caused over heating problems?!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/220.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/221.jpg
Got the car jacked up last night (3t chain block) ready to drop the engine. Working with this link on this job.
http://www.fueltopia.co.uk/forum/topics/mr2-3sge-to-3sge-engine-change
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/222.jpg
Hopefully I'll get the 3sge out today (subject to mammys day duties!)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/223.jpg

[Paul Woods]

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/220.jpg

Good to go :thumbsup:

[cdwood2010]

Those colours are making my tummy go funny.

It looks like an Umpa Lumpa! Can't decide if I love it or hate it, but Christ that will stand out in the engine bay!

Loving your garage, erm BARN!!!

Don't forget to put some support under the car, just in case it heads south.

We support them about a foot off the floor for disconnecting everything, then take them up to 3ft to get the engine rolled out.

Chris.

[Smurfster]

At 1am this morning she was about 12in dilated
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/244.jpg
and at 1:30am my 2 gave birth to a lovely 3sge. Ready for a new home ;)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/245.jpg

[Smurfster]

Rear subframe ready and waiting to go back on.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/556.jpg
Still waiting on a timing belt kit. I'm also in the process of trying to get an NA LSD box :evil: Not that popular it seems. I can get one for €350. Would this be the average cost? Also is there any tell tale signs that it is an LSD?

Tristan

[cdwood2010]

Dear god!

You really love that colour scheme font you!

Mot guy will go blind!

:)

[Smurfster]

Hey guys. Need a help on this one. Can anyone identify this and tell me it will work in my na s54 box??
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/04/35.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/04/36.jpg
He says it's out of a celica ss111 box?

[Paul Woods]

Yes, that's a Celica superslut LSD, that will work :thumbsup:

[Smurfster]

Yes, that's a Celica superslut LSD, that will work :thumbsup:

Cheers Paul. Is it worth €250? And is it a big job to fit?

[Paul Woods]

It's worth the money, and i've done a detailed write up on fitting one in the drivetrain section...

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?11589-mk3-LSD-diffs-in-a-S54-box/page3

[Smurfster]

Thanks again :thumbsup:
Picked this up today
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/04/55.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/04/56.jpg

[Paul Woods]

You'll notice your Mr2 speedo drive cog is grey in colour, use that instead of the green one on the Celica diff or your speedo will be out.

[Smurfster]

What's the difference in the two crownwheels? I'd be happy enough with kmh speedo cog. Those handed bearings don't want to come off!!

[Paul Woods]

The crownwheels are different sizes, you must use the one that matches your original gearbox final drive. Yep the side bearings are fun, i made special tools for that job.

[Smurfster]

I tried making an sst! But the 2mm flats that goes behind the bearing cant take the pull!
Yesterday's play time
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/04/65.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/04/66.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/04/67.jpg
That how write up is a work of art Paul. :eusa_clap:

[Paul Woods]

Glad the write up is doing its job!

Yes normal mild steel is no good to make the SST to go behind the bearing, it has to be very tough case hardened steel or it just breaks off. I bought a hydraulic puller and then shaved down the legs on that, it was the only thing i could find that works.

[Smurfster]

Bearings swapped and new diff in. Two slightly trimmed cup head bolts welded on two arms and connected to a hydraulic pullers! Saved the speedo cog:thumbsup:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/04/76.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/04/77.jpg
Left overs
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/04/78.jpg
Nearly back together. Not doing the extended 5th mod.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/04/79.jpg

[Paul Woods]

Excellent job on the puller! Done one better than me there, my puller won't let me save the speedo cog, great work.

[Smurfster]

Nearly made a big boo boo! Because I'm not doing the extended 5th gear it's slightly different than the guide.
I had it almost back together (with just the selector fork and top case to put on) I found a circlip left in over! Little bit of back tracking and here it goes.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/04/84.jpg
I'm thinking of using a techniclutch? Any thoughts or opinions on them? Also I'm not getting on great with getting the flywheel modified. Would love a fidanza but I'm afraid the budget is running tight!

[cdwood2010]

Turbo or N/A?

We used a Techniclutch on our first build (JapScrap) and its still doing us proud.

I fitted one to the second build (BBQ) and the release bearing failed and shagged the lot. I had no joy trying To get it replaced, to be honest they were downright rude.

Naturally this has left me a bit anti.

Since then I've been using LUK n/a clutches, better than standard and under £100 for a kit.

Flywheel - I've probably got an N/A one available soon enough, and there's a machine shop near me that can drill and reface for £60.

I know Paul is able to do them too!

C.

[Paul Woods]

Er, that circlip, you don't need to remove that with either the 5th or LSD swap, only the outer large circlip needs removing <smacks wrists> don't do it again!

[Smurfster]

Na clutch and fly Chris.
Sorry Paul it won't happen again. Please don't smack me:hidesbehi:

[Paul Woods]

You enjoyed it you dirty girl.

[Smurfster]

Getting close to fitting.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/04/320.jpg
Collecting the flywheel tonight hopefully.
After a lot of phone calls and enquiries I found a machinest in a back alley in Arklow

[racerADS]

Looking good! I am not far behind you. Loving the colours and the fact you have even sprayed the alternator pulley! Great stuff!

[Smurfster]

Cam cover on and trying to match up the remaining vacuum pipes. I need to get blanks for the ones that are gone withe egr valves. Also need to get an alternator belt. Is there a size for this? Any tips to watch out for at this stage?
Not looking forward to the wiring!!

[cdwood2010]

Cam cover on and trying to match up the remaining vacuum pipes. I need to get blanks for the ones that are gone withe egr valves. Also need to get an alternator belt. Is there a size for this? Any tips to watch out for at this stage?
Not looking forward to the wiring!!

Vacuum plumbing

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/01/55.jpg

Alternator belt

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/18.jpg

With the wiring, just test everything, double check it.

Did I send you the Mk2 wiring spreadsheet? Have a good read through it, so that you are familiar with the reasons for things etc.

I'm wiring up a 3VZ into build #4 this weekend, so an ideal time to pick my brains! If you get stuck anywhere or want to confirm things, just post a message preferably with pics.

My knowledge of wiring this engine into a mk1 is pretty thin, but we will all help where we can!

C.

[Smurfster]

Thanks for the info and pics Chris.
Finally got the engine off the stand. Flywheel torque on and clutch fitted.
Colour coded techniclutch :P
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/73.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/74.jpg
Next up was to mat the LSD S54
One hole on the box drilled slightly bigger.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/75.jpg
I made up a platform to slide the engine under the car. A few roller bearings into a counter top done the trick!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/76.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/77.jpg
Got the car back in and hoisted up. The low slung trolley was a gift here
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/78.jpg
Only way is up from here ;)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/79.jpg
Destination arrival and a couple of mounts fitted
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/80.jpg
And last but not least Mr Woods genius mount :cheer:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/81.jpg

Next on the list is the plumbing and wiring :woohoo:

[cdwood2010]

Excellent work there, loving the trolley!

I've got a spreadsheet with the 4th ECU plug pinouts along with some other good stuff if you want it emailing across?

Take your time on the wiring, and test everything!

It's amazing how much of that loom gets chopped off when you've finished, so don't be put off by the wiring in the boot!

C.

[Smurfster]

Started on the wiring last night. :ohmy:
Camry Ecu in place
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/113.jpg
Starter relay wired up (green box)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/114.jpg
Fuse box in a mess!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/115.jpg
Laptop for assistance.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/116.jpg
75% percent of the way there I think!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/117.jpg
I seem to have a lot wire going no where. I also had to cut the 4th ecu plug from the 3sge. Does all wires of no use just get taped up?

[Paul Woods]

I also had to cut the 4th ecu plug from the 3sge

That sentence concerns me, the "3rd" ECU plug on the 3sge ECU is part of the cars chassis loom in the boot, not part of the engine loom. You need to wire up the V6 "4th" ECU plug where the 3sge "3rd" ECU plug went, or repin the 3sge plug (both fit the V6 4th slot)

[Smurfster]

Oh oh! I didn't get the 4th v6 plug so I may make one. The Ecu plug in the mr2 booth fitted so I cut it and used it.
I ignored the colours and used the pin out diagram. I sense another slap coming!!

[snowtigger]

Bong goes the slap hammer.

[Paul Woods]

No that works fine :thumbsup:

[Smurfster]

Well lads i think/hope I've the wiring almost complete. I took a few snaps of what's left. Seems to be a lot of wires left
Mr2 Fuse box
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/178.jpg
Booth plug
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/179.jpg
Mr2 Ecu plug in booth (chassis loom)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/180.jpg
Theses plugs and green wires are on the v6 loom.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/181.jpg
I have the rpm part swapped from clocks and fuel pipes and trottle cable sorted.
Plumbing up next unless there's a boo boo made in the wiring

All the best Tristan

[cdwood2010]

Hi,

Those plugs next to the green wires - I don't recognise them as V6 so they might be aftermarket, an alarm or immobiliser.

Actually those green wires are also Present next to the boot plug. Tone them out and you could probably remove them quite safely if they're not doing anything.

There are lots of spare wires that are not essential for getting the car running. If in doubt, cap them with heat shrink or tape. Once the car is running you can always trim them later.

C.

[Smurfster]

Cheers Chris. The engine bay fan is not connected. Should I run that on an ignition live? Abs also not sure about. Probably plug and play!

[Paul Woods]

Just a note to say fitting the Camry tacho board doesn't get the tacho reading properly, nowhere near really, the only way is to do Sengs mod with a resistor and a potentiometer, that gets it 100%.

[briweekes]

Hi,

Those plugs next to the green wires - I don't recognise them as V6 so they might be aftermarket, an alarm or immobiliser.


C.

I had the same green wires on mine, and were the Camry immobiliser, I ditched those

[briweekes]

Cheers Chris. The engine bay fan is not connected. Should I run that on an ignition live? Abs also not sure about. Probably plug and play!

Paul told me the stock Engine bay fans are not very effective, and hardly worth the bother (connect up if you feel it necessary), I didn't bother connecting and the temp is fine (fitted a rad fan override switch)- although I've not driven it with the V6 in hot air temperatures at all (coldest few months for 100 years here, thanks to Global warming NOT).

[Smurfster]

Just a note to say fitting the Camry tacho board doesn't get the tacho reading properly, nowhere near really, the only way is to do Sengs mod with a resistor and a potentiometer, that gets it 100%.

That sounds a bit hardcore for my wiring skills at the moment Paul! If the needle moves and there's a nice v6 rumble behind me I'll be happy.
Im just going to tape up all the loose ends Brian. Fan switch is an option for afterwards.

[Smurfster]

We have lift off. Video soon:smile::smile:

[Smurfster]

:jump:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTmuqZrmXTI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[briweekes]

FANTASTIC SMURFSTER!!- very cool, well done

[cdwood2010]

Top stuff!

All downhill from there!

C.

[snowtigger]

Was definetly rocking have you uprated the engine mounts yet?

[cdwood2010]

Was definetly rocking have you uprated the engine mounts yet?

I don't think he's fitted them yet tiggs!

:)

[Smurfster]

Cheers guys. First time doing rebuild and a swap! Big list of stuff still to do but the curiosity got the better of me!

[racerADS]

Great work, everyone has a first time once ;)

Must have felt great! Keep ticking off things on that list!

[snowtigger]

Let's get as many to jae as possible eh keep at it .

[headcase]

Cheers guys. First time doing rebuild and a swap! Big list of stuff still to do but the curiosity got the better of me!
Excellent mate. Yes and that allways gets the better of you .
Patrick

[Smurfster]

Well lads not much happening with the v6 lately. I've been doing a few bits with the tubby (probably due neglect!)
The cam vents. I know the front bank gets piped in to the intake after the AFM but not sure on the rear bank? Also the open pipe on the underside of the plenum. Not sure where to go with this?

Cheers Tristan

[cdwood2010]

Hi mate!

Metal pipe under the plenum goes to the cam breather just below it.

Or not if you like.

This picks up gasses from the engine and reuses them, although we remove this pipe, cap it off on the plenum and leave the cam breather vent. You can fit a small filter on there or pipe it to an oil catch can along with the other one that goes into the intake pipe.

Now get your finger out and get that car finished!!!!

Chris.

[Smurfster]

I got a good few bits sorted out over the weekend.
Downpipes chopped and modified to go over the subframe and back in its original position.
Sounds sweet. Video to follow!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/06/269.jpg
Coolant pipes finished and nearly air free!
All engine mounts finished.
Gear linkages finished and clutch bled. Then disaster struck. Seal went in slave cylinder and pissed out fluid all over the place!
Had 2 kids to take care of for a while.
Mobile Crèche
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/06/270.jpg
Left to do.
Swap out the clutch slave cylinder
Add more coolant.
Sort out the AFM brackets
Tidy up the wireing in the booth (rastafarian hairdo!)

[cdwood2010]

Nice pipe there matey!

We spent an entire Saturday making a front section, but it was worth every weld burn!

Keep that progress coming, and get those kids put to work bleeding the clutch!

:)

C.

[Smurfster]

Sounds very tame when idling but roars with a small bit of trottle!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueh1pTWcNeA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Smurfster]

I've had a few trips in v6 and no major concerns until this evening. Reving up and down
So I came across this http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?16734-3vzfe-not-reving-properly/page4&highlight=V6+not+reving
Same symptoms.
This is what I have in the booth. Should I plug it in?

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/21.jpg
Do I tape these up?
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/22.jpg

Also I have this on the dash. Oil is bang on the full mark
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/23.jpg

Turbo Engine lid got a paint job!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/24.jpg

Car got a lick of polish!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/25.jpg

Cheers Tristan

[SlipSlide]

Looking forward to seeing her in the skin Tristan, will she be at the show on Sunday.

[Smurfster]

Should be Ray. She ain't pretty at the moment. (still work in progress!)
Hope the weather picks up!

[Paul Woods]

Do NOT plug that cooling fan box in, bad things will happen, akin to crossing the streams in Ghostbusters.

There is a red wire in your engine bay fusebox, the large white plug, run that red wire to ground and your oil level light will go out.

[dj-fozi]

could you supply me with a wiring diagram so i can join a v6 loom to the 3sge loom?- ablecdtfosterd@hotmail.com

[Paul Woods]

There is no exact diagram, there are too many 3sge variations, there are rough guides though and engine harness services from myself If you can't do it yourself.

[dj-fozi]

could you email me these guides if poss?- ablecdtfosterd@hotmail.com

[Smurfster]

There is a red wire in your engine bay fusebox, the large white plug, run that red wire to ground and your oil level light will go out.
That done the trick Paul. Thanks for that:eusa_clap:

[Smurfster]

Well guys the V6 made it to her first car show yesterday :driving: Still driving it nice and handy for now! (running in). Got lots of questions and complements. The constant rain turned the field into a mud bath and I can safely say the LSD is working fine. The standard mr2 na box is a bit to quiet for my liking and I'm also wondering would it benefit from a decat?
Quick wash and ready for the trip
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/122.jpg
Last car to leave the Mr2.ie stand. 14 Mr2's on the day!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/123.jpg
And last but not least
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/124.jpg
Thanks to you guys for making this happen.

Ps I may organise some TwoBrutal stickers for the next show:thumbsup:

[cdwood2010]

Awesome pics, glad to hear its all going good!

Decat pipe is always a good idea. Not sure if you need a cat for your mot thing over there, but you can always refit if you do.

All you need is a couple of fat straight bits of pipe with the same bolt pattern as your cat, cut them and butt them together do they're the same length and seam them up.

Job done.

Got one to make myself actually!

C.

[Smurfster]

A few more mods done since the Terenure show.
Homemade decat! Not that fat Chris!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/282.jpg
Still running a bit quiet for my liking (hard to know if it's even ticking over sometimes!)
Anyone with a nice turbo exhaust for sale pm me!
Had a few lighting issues. Front parking lights disconnected over the drivers side footwell.
Fog lights switch was not working and when I sorted all that out the indicators gave up.
Top tip "if the indicators are not working and the hazzards are. Check the hazzards switch"
This melted my head for hours!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/283.jpg
A previous owner had converted to rev3 back lights but had only 2 of 4 lights working. Little bit more soldering
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/284.jpg

Performance wise the V6 is starting to open up nicely. 600 miles done since the conversion. Oil and filter to be changed after the first 1000 miles. Can really let her open up then :evil: I'm getting more miles to tank than the tubby (50 miles more approx)
The gearbox is running silky smooth after the LSD conversion. Well worth doing! :fatcat:

[gavsdavs]

I'm getting more miles to tank than the tubby (50 miles approx)
Holy jesus - 50 miles a tank. Would have to plan your journeys based around petrol stations :)

[Smurfster]

Holy jesus - 50 miles a tank. Would have to plan your journeys based around petrol stations :)

Well spotted !

[Smurfster]

Got these off the postman today. Really impressed with them:thumbsup:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/325.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/326.jpg
Bit dark for taking pictures but you get the idea!
Thanks Nik

[hmmmmm]

Looking good! Small things like the rear lights and the decals really finish it off!

[Smurfster]

Thanks hmmmmm
I'm applying for a visa to head over to Jae with a mate. It's the same weekend as her birthday. Oh well!

I'm getting a little issue with stalling/cutting out when cold. For example dropping down through the gears before a junction and cutting out when I come to a stop. This is not an issue when up to temp.
I've been reading a bit about cold start injector removal. Is this the way to go?!

[dgh938peg]

P.o.c.v.i.p.s.

:)

[Smurfster]

So this is where I'm at??!!

Pauls
Obvious
Cure for
V6
Idle
Problem
Sorted!

[dgh938peg]

That's the kiddy, a little blob of weld on the end of the plunger of the ISCV

[Smurfster]

Oil catch can fitted.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/09/122.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/09/123.jpg
Over 2k covered in her now. All going well so far
Next move is to change the exhaust after next weekends dyno
Car wash this evening. A little Toyota meet :P
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/09/124.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/09/125.jpg

Enjoy Jae guys. Not jealous!

[Smurfster]

Trial fitted these this evening for tomorrows MR2.ie dyno run.
VW r32 back box with the pipes in the middle.
Little bit off center but they'll do for now ;)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/09/243.jpg
The little man testing the sound. He's 4 on Sunday :eusa_whistle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8rIJCUxHmc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Smurfster]

My turbo was sick :(
Won the best flame award though :P
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/09/244.jpg
Mr2 car gets the thumbs up from the kids
Highest bhp on the day 268bhp I think
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/09/245.jpg
V6 results. Very happy for her 1st dyno
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/09/246.jpg
Turbo not so happy
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/09/247.jpg

Cheers Slipslide for setting up the day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVhHszjSAnQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Smurfster]

Hey guys.
Long time no chat! Car is still running fine and is due its 1st Nct now (mot)
No issues to date only the pocvips still to sort out.
I've been offered an oem Ferrari 355 exhaust (back box) and I'm wondering how this works with the 3vzfe?
Anyone have this setup?
Cheers Tristan

[cdwood2010]

Hi there!

Glad to hear your smiles per gallon rate is still nice and high.

That back box was probably intended for a V6 or even better, do it should make a nice tune out of the already gorgeous V6 burble!

If its not too pricey I say go for it.

:)