Clutch Bearing Failure? Really?!?!?!! [Archive] - Woodsport Forum & The TB Archive

cdwood2010

25-08-2011, 20:31

Those who have been watching my progress with build #2 (BBQ) will know I have had some issues with an increasingly worsening clutch judder.

Finally got the gearbox off, and this is what I found:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/252.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/253.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/254.jpg

Out of paranoia I even asked Pat if he put grease on the bearing, but I'm pretty sure I fitted it to the box, and I am damn sure I didn't put that much grease on it. Plus its green grease, and I don't have any of that.

From the mess it seems that the clutch bearing failed and shat grease everywhere.

Thoughts anyone?

Chris.

stevehall

25-08-2011, 20:33

My thoughts are that's pretty shit, at least you know it's not your skills that are at fault.

headcase

25-08-2011, 20:36

what the centre plate look like chris that got grease on as well

snowtigger

25-08-2011, 20:58

clean the grease of the pressure plate plus lite sand it to get a bit of grip and buy a new centre plate throw the old one in the bin, or just buy another with a good release bearing.

peace of mind or worry it to death mate, i would start again clean slate unless you enjoy taking mr2 to bits, hang on a mo you do feck it degrease it new bearing slap it back together.

cdwood2010

25-08-2011, 21:37

what the centre plate look like chris that got grease on as well

Hi,

Centre plate looks ok, and although there were some marks on the flywheel, it doesn't look as contaminated as the pressure plate.

I will add some more pics tomorrow.

Chris.

cdwood2010

25-08-2011, 21:43

Thanks for the comments guys.

I've contacted Techniclutch and I'm awaiting a response, but I'm not putting any of it back in.

As much fun as it is, I would rather not be arsing about with clutches.

I want this car done and ready for JAE!!!

Chris.

headcase

25-08-2011, 22:44

no this is clutch failure ha ha :icon_biggrin:

i

snowtigger

25-08-2011, 22:52

That has failed it's shaged good and proper.

cdwood2010

26-08-2011, 01:04

no this is clutch failure ha ha :icon_biggrin:

how for the love of baby Christmas Jesus did you achieve that!?

Chris.

headcase

26-08-2011, 09:08

No i didnt do it. But i did say she really should take driving lessons (toyota yaris ):icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin:

OlberJ

26-08-2011, 09:34

Chris, it's not a 6 paddle friction plate like the XTD ones is it?

cdwood2010

26-08-2011, 21:35

Hi again,

This is the clutch plate:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/256.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/257.jpg

Techniclutch replied and have asked me to return the whole lot for inspection. They haven't committed to anything, but I guess they need to see it first.

That leaves me without a clutch and the clock is ticking....

Anyone got a N/A clutch kit lying around within a sensible shout of Northampton?

Chris.

cdwood2010

27-08-2011, 11:26

Then I spotted this when I looked at the bearing a bit closer:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/258.jpg

The bearing centre is offset towards the arm side of the gearbox.

I think I have a picture of the kit when it arrived somewhere, going to compare them, because I doubt i missed that going in.

Chris.

mrT

27-08-2011, 11:31

hmmm interesting,
could explaing your clutch judder, perhaps it was the release bearing that failed and was built wonly to begin with,

Then I spotted this when I looked at the bearing a bit closer:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/258.jpg

The bearing centre is offset towards the arm side of the gearbox.

I think I have a picture of the kit when it arrived somewhere, going to compare them, because I doubt i missed that going in.

Chris.

aussiemr2

27-08-2011, 13:20

headcase

27-08-2011, 15:11

cdwood2010

27-08-2011, 15:26

Chris, I had a look at my unfitted N/A bearing and it moves off centre too if you push it, looks like it may be normal

This one is solid, despite being off centre. It looks like the seal inside the gap is open, so I'm not sure what caused what. It's a sealed bearing so I'm not sure why yours moves!?!?!

We've removed all the flywheel bolts and rechecked everything, as it occurred to me that we might not have fitted correctly, although that was just paranoia because it all seems fine.

At this point all I can assume is that either the bearing caused the pressure plate to grip unevenly or the pressure plate was faulty and caused damage to the bearing.

Chris.

cdwood2010

27-08-2011, 15:36

to me chris it looks like they have put two much grease in bearing and its thrown it out as there is no grease (small amount on plate ) it is all on the out side and some has got on cover , which got there prob when u engaged the clutch . i cant see them doing anything as i beat they will try to put it on the installer as they have greased it to much . patrick cant see a clutch back to u by jae mate .

In the meantime I have got my hands on another clutch, as you say if I wait for them to inspect and get back to me it will never have a chance of being back together and MOT'd.

I'm confident we fit this correctly, we only put enough grease on the bearing shaft and the pivot to coat it. They seem to know what they are talking about so I guess we will have to wait and see. They seem to know their products, and all the feedback I've heard, along with my own experience with them suggests they are decent people to deal with.

Chris.

headcase

27-08-2011, 16:40

In the meantime I have got my hands on another clutch, as you say if I wait for them to inspect and get back to me it will never have a chance of being back together and MOT'd.

I'm confident we fit this correctly, we only put enough grease on the bearing shaft and the pivot to coat it. They seem to know what they are talking about so I guess we will have to wait and see. They seem to know their products, and all the feedback I've heard, along with my own experience with them suggests they are decent people to deal with.

Chris.

well if they come back and its faulty then invoice for r & i gearbox . chris
but the dealings i have with factors and main dealers they will try to get out of it . if they put there hands up and say yes faulty i might start geting my clutch kits from them . good luck
patrick

cdwood2010

04-09-2011, 18:37

As expected they have inspected the returned clutch and said (in a written letter) that the contamination is from oil from either the gearbox or engine seals.

I have already replied clarifying that nothing was leaking, we checked the flywheel runout, the crank seal and re-checked the fly bolts just in case we had cut them too long. (paranoia)

Gearbox bell housing is dry with a layer of black dust as You would expect. It never got cleaned during the swap.

I suspect they will continue to blame me, pat, the fitting of the clutch, gravity, lunar position, price of potatoes etc etc...

The real irony here is that I really thought we had buggered it up until we got it all in bits and inspected it. The more we looked the more we realised it want our error.

It ain't over.

Chris.

snowtigger

04-09-2011, 22:38

Funny that them saying gearbox or engine oil, perhaps if you ask them to get it chemically tested to see what sae of oil it is?

cdwood2010

05-09-2011, 00:32

Funny that them saying gearbox or engine oil, perhaps if you ask them to get it chemically tested to see what sae of oil it is?

Yes they are also assuming that they can tell what engine / gearbox oil I'm using from the smell of the clutch plate?

A bit far fetched even by my standards!

Chris.

Paul Woods

05-09-2011, 07:08

Two things here...

1) When a V6 crank oil seal fails the oil runs down the back of the flywheel and out the bottom drain hole, the worst it ever does is wet the back of the flywheel in extreme cases, it is extremely rare for any oil to make it to the front of the flywheel face (if you think about it the oil would need to defy the laws of physics to get there, overcome the G forces of a 1000-7000rpm spinning fly etc). Now i have seen a contaminated clutch due to a failed crank seal, but the fly was lightweight with holes in it so the oil could weep through and the seal was absolutely fu-kayed, you would definately have large oil leak patches on the ground in either case.

2) Never seen an Mr2 gearbox input shaft oil seal leak in 15 years working on these cars, not even a weep.

The only possible contamination i can think of would be the over exuberant use of copper grease on the input shaft/release bearing, the grease flings out all over the plate and every particle of dirt clings to the grease, which can act as grinding paste and wipe a bearing out very quickly.

But it definately isn't related to oil seal failure, that much i do know.

cdwood2010

05-09-2011, 07:17

Thanks Paul, like I said we were doubting ourselves until we got it in bits and inspected everything.

There was no additional grease added when we installed, other than a light wipe on the shaft housing and a tidgy blob on the arm pivot.

I was pretty sure that I fitted the bearing when we assembled, but even so I phoned pat once the box was off and grilled him about it just in case.

Will see what they say, as I'm really not impressed on having to do the clutch a 2nd time as it is, never mind being given the runaround.

Chris.

snowtigger

05-09-2011, 12:41

Wankers, I would not be using there expertise, the second hand six puck clutch I have fitted is still great after a year of abuse just the release bearing wirrs every now and again.

headcase

05-09-2011, 13:46

stick at it chris give them shit over it if u keep on at them . i had a ivorseal diesel engine fail after 300 miles and they said it was down to when i fiited it there must have been a bit of metal in the intake manifold , which was crap as the inlet is part of the head ,plus how the hell did it do 300 miles .they striped it down then sent this letter to me so i asked them to ship all the parts of the engine back to me so i can get a 2nd report on , they done a u turn as soon as i said that . not quite the same i know but hay there wrong just more crap to deal with .patrick

cdwood2010

13-09-2011, 09:23

Well, it has been a week and they haven’t even bothered to reply which is very disappointing.

Next step will be to pass this on to a solicitor and chase them for the price of the clutch plus my time spent removing and refitting the gearbox, along with the cost of returning the faulty clutch to them.

All very tedious.

Chris.

cdwood2010

14-09-2011, 17:13

Well, now they seem to be trying to make a big joke out of it.

I have asked for the faulty clutch back.

Chris.

cdwood2010

16-09-2011, 16:33

Finally got a sensible response from NCD (Techniclutch).

They still maintain that my gearbox oil did the damage (it didn't) but as a gesture if goodwill they are returning my clutch with the defective parts swapped out. I assume that means the plate an bearing, but I will find out when it returns.

I would ideally have preferred a new clutch or just a refund, but given that we could go on forever arguing, if they send back a usable clutch we will call it a good compromise and move on.

Chris.

If it doesn't exist you have to invent it....

cdwood2010

24-09-2011, 18:46

Really getting fed up of these guys now.

They returned my clutch kit:-

New clutch plate
Original pressure plate
Original release bearing (yes really)

I have since messaged them again asking why they refuse to see that the bearing is fucked, I can't use it so why send me that back.

So far they have not even bothered to reply.

I will post the whole conversation on here if anyone wants to read it. Might stick it under the 'trader or traitor' section....

Chris.