Our 2nd 2zz-ge Mk1 build

[Paul Woods]

This is the second one of these we will have built, it seems to be a conversion a lot of Mk1 owners are very interested in and who wouldn't be, 190bhp and a 6 speed box all weighing next to nothing more than the original 4a-ge.

This one is Ians (Perculis) and we have already removed the old 4a-ge, cut off the drivers side engine mount and dummy hung the 2zz/6speed...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/DSCN1612.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/DSCN1610.jpg

This is done so that we can make the new drivers side engine mount...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/DSCN1618.jpg

After that the engine can be removed again for preparing.

Work then began on the gearbox, it seems the norm for the 2zz box is to pull it apart, and install the Mk3 LSD unit along with giving it a better 6th gear ratio than Toyota did, so that is exactly what we are doing.

The Corolla T sport 6 speed is stripped right down....

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/199.jpg

As well as a Celica 6 speed gearbox and a Mk3 gearbox as well, so that's 3 gearboxes stripped to use parts from all of them to build one ultimate gearbox.

here are all of the Celica parts....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/DSCN1613.jpg

We will use the 6th gear set and selectors from this box along with its centre casing...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/DSCN1615.jpg

So all of these parts together will give Ian the gearbox of his dreams. We also use the Mk1 speedo drive which fits the 2zz box and Mk2 NA driveshafts, a real parts bin build if ever there was one!

More updates to come.

[rexer200]

Not another one! They'll be common as those V6's soon :-)
Nice one Paul, looking good and watching this build with interest. My car, the first 2zz Paul converted, has now done about 10,000 miles since the transplant and i'm still loving every minute behind the wheel.

[loadswine]

Superb!

[hmmmmm]

I would give my left ball for a 6 speed with high ratio and lsd on the V6...You lucky basterd you :)

[PERCULIS]

:thumbsup:

Happy days Paul

[dgh938peg]

mmmmmmmm ....... 6 speed high revving flavoured mk1 ....... mmmmmmmmm

[snowtigger]

mmmmmm lovely ultimate mk1 same weight more power 6 speed box lsd lovely.

versus ultimate v6/v8 nutjob power is never enough mk1 hmmm could have both one for the missus me thinks, but she would never find sixth gear.

[Paul Woods]

Today saw the Celica centre casing added to the gearbox, this is an improvement over the first conversion, this gives us the oil seal and selector linkages on the correct side of the gearbox without any hole drilling and trying to make a new seal position work, which was a problem on the previous conversion. I have spoken to Mark (Rexer) and asked that one day we can operate on his gearbox again and fit a Celica centre casing as his still has a slight weep and we can't be having that!

Here is the centre casing fitted...

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/219.jpg

And the factory oil seal location...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/22811002.jpg

The 5th and 6th part of the gearbox was cleaned and prepped for installing the 5th/6th gear sets...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/22811003.jpg

Here is the Corolla 5th set but Celica 6th set fitted, which makes 6th longer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/22811004.jpg

The completed Frankenbox, i have modified Mk1 selector arms to fit the Celica selector shaft. This box also has the Mk1 reverse light switch too taking the total number of different gearbox parts going into this totalling four!

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/220.jpg

This just needs prepping and painting, then new oil seals fitting.

Tomorrow will see engine/gearbox detailing beginning and then it can be installed.

[PERCULIS]

Lovely work Paul.

Anybody wanting to do this should look at for an imported celica m sport. This has the right gear ratios and the LSD already installed, that'd just leave the selector arms to modify.

Also the M Sport has a 200BHP version of the 2zz, Bonus!

[tripod23]

paul is any of this possible on the s54 boxes or is it just the newer 6 speed celica / corolla boxes.

[hmmmmm]

LSD & longer 5th gear have been possible for quite a while now mate, check the drivetrain section.

[tripod23]

yeah i know about lsd and longer 5th , i was wondering about turning the s54 into 6 speed as well , without going to the time and trouble of getting an avensis 6 speed to work ect.

[hmmmmm]

Not going to work, you would need a custom bell housing, and probably a lot of engineering hours..Not worth the hassle im afraid. If i win the lottery ive got you covered though :)

[dgh938peg]

There's a couple of folk USA side working on 6sp boxes to work with the 2gr (so also the 3sge and gte too) using the corolla diesel t-sport box. ratios are ideal for a v6 not so much so a 4-basher.

[snowtigger]

Solrac had apparently sorted the fitment issue just selectors and speedo drive, the speedo maybe an easy fix as there's a hole for one just need the speedo ring gear fitting to the LSD.

[Paul Woods]

The roadster/celica/mk1 boxes are all C series transmissions, with C series bearings and internals. The Mk2 NA box is an S series with similar looking but different internals. I don't think it would be possible to ever combine the two but i will have a play with some gearbox cases and see if there is any way at all to make that work because i do agree an S series 6 speed would be awesome.

[Paul Woods]

Today we made great progress, the engine was fully detailed, Ian gave us the brief of an OEM looking engine so i went with silver and black, it really does give you that factory look. I also fitted brand new bolts to as many places as possible to refresh it all.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/226.jpg

I am waiting for a new water pump to arrive from Toyota, this is an upgrade pump with more blades on it from the Exige and Celica GTS models.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/2zzmk1fitted010.jpg

I then got the gearbox detailed, new clutch fitted and gearbox mounted on the engine but with the linkages painted black, got to have a bit of contrast!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/2zzmk1fitted011.jpg

The whole new package ready to install...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/2zzmk1fitted014.jpg

On Marks build it required an oil pressure sender adapter which fractured, for some reason this 2zz seems to be slightly different, the Mk1 oil pressure sender screwed straight into the engine with no adapter and nothing fouling it, it would seem there might be a few revisions of this engine around.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/2zzmk1fitted013.jpg

Later on we hung the new engine...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/2zzmk1fitted016.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/2zzmk1fitted017.jpg

Now that looks as OEM as you can get it.

Also tried the top cover on, but i prefer the cover off personally so you can see all of the detailing, but that's just me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/2zzmk1fitted018.jpg

[tripod23]

looks like it grew there paul , nice detailing day today then . another customer that will over the moon with his new toy.

[hmmmmm]

Looks waaaaaaay better without the cover, OEM quality as ever paul!

[PERCULIS]

Outstanding Paul, I'm a very happy man


You did say you'd guarantee that I would have no problems with the oil pressure sender, you've pull one out of the hat there being able to just screw in the MK1 unit!

Battery's ordered.

[Paul Woods]

Even if i had to use another adapter i don't think the oil pressure sender would have been a problem, Marks incident was a total one off, but it is nice that yours just screwed in.

I'm updating the thread in a mo when i've uploaded pics.

[Paul Woods]

Today i completed the gearshift cable bracket, a different design to the previous effort, for no other reason than i like to try new ways of doing things.

This bracket bolts to the slave cylinder holes and does the same job as a stock Mk1 bracket would...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/DSCN1660.jpg

You can see i've added a tab for the clutch flexi line so that all bolts up OEM and made a new flexi to slave hard pipe...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/DSCN1662.jpg

It selects all 6 forward gears and reverse effortlessly and we got the clutch bled too which is all working like it should. There is also a clutch line adapter in that pic above that steps the Mk1 flexi down to the Corolla size fitting.

The driveshafts are also fitted, we went for the tried and tested Mk2 NA ones, although one day i'd really like to get a supported shaft setup onto one of these.

Tomorrow will see the exhaust manifold tackled, that is a full day job on its own with lots of support bracketry.

[PERCULIS]

:driving:

That's coming together quick.

I'd have been tempted to try the supported shaft setup if I'd had the supercharged 2zz or if we'd got more time. but as I'm keen to get some use out of the car before it gets cold( I plan to keep this car off the road and out of the salt over the winter) I asked Paul to keep it simple and use the mk2 n/a shafts which were used on Mark's car (rexer2000)

Paul
You can do the supported set-up on your 4-AGZE Paul. Hope we'll see some updates on that once mine's out the way :thumbsup:

[Paul Woods]

The expansion bottle pipe is now done, i use the old brake servo pipe for this, bend it into a new shape and route it along the rear firewall, seeing as it's already a Toyota part it helps keep that OEM look. It also means the expansion bottle keeps its original position and we can use the Mk1 one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/DSCN1669.jpg

I've buried the fuel pressure regulator behind the battery tray out of sight in an effort to improve the factory look. We always try to find new ways to do things on our conversions, no doubt the next 2zz Mk1 i build will be different again.

The radiator pipes and heater lines are also done, and i've made the filler pipe Y that is needed so we can fit a Mk2 filler neck assembly, this Y also houses the dash coolant temp sensor and has a separate earthing point on it too (seeing as it's joined to rubber on all 3 joins). With the cooling system complete i've filled it with coolant to start the bleeding process well ahead of startup.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/DSCN1668.jpg

Jobs left to do...

Exhaust manifold
Battery stay
Induction pipework
MAF adapter
Exhaust system
Wiring
Heatshielding
Gearbox oil/Engine oil/Filter

[Gary.H]

What exhaust are you going for Paul ? I seem to remember that the sporty (tubular) exhausts you can get for the 2zz-ge won't fit in a Mk1 chassis ?

[Paul Woods]

Indeed, the tubular manifolds out there are designed for the Corolla and Celica, so hit the crossmember of a Mk1. The only other tubular exhaust available is a totally shit quality item that is made for the roadster conversions. We tried using one of these on Marks car and it fractured twice, even with a support bracket, the tubing used was paper thin and narrowed down to nearly half its original diameter in places, needless to say we won't be using those ever again.

On that note (in true Blue Peter stye), here's one i made earlier! Today was manifold making day, which is a big part of a 2zz Mk1 swap. This manifold is basically a 2zz header flange and the rest i made from a Mk2 3s-ge tubular manifold by cutting up its pipes, shortening them and routing them accordingly into a single collector and then into a 3" flange. I've also heat wrapped the entire manifold. The only thing left to do to this is add the support bracketry onto the engine. I think it has worked out pretty well, much stronger than those shiney but shit quality ones.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/DSCN1672.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/DSCN1673.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/DSCN1674.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/DSCN1675.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/Woodsport%205/DSCN1676.jpg

The priorities for this manifold are that is it very strong, doesn't fracture and flows pretty well, mission accomplished i reckon.

The downpipe to rear silencer section is being made next, i'm putting a much longer than normal flexi section in there as this car has softer torque mounts than Marks.

[Gary.H]

Indeed, the tubular manifolds out there are designed for the Corolla and Celica, so hit the crossmember of a Mk1. The only other tubular exhaust available is a totally shit quality item that is made for the roadster conversions.
What did Lotus use on the 2zz-ge in the Exige and the Elise ?

Is this the shiny achey, breaky one (http://www.ppeengineering.com/products/toyota/mr2spyder/2zzgeswap.php)?

[Paul Woods]

No that's not it, also i don't see how they can advertise that as fitting a roadster because there is nowhere for the supported driveshaft to fit... those pipes are running right where the shaft and its bracket goes.

1943

This is the garbage one... the pipes are VERY thin and it cracks at both the header flange and lower flange and has no support bracket, i wouldn't use it for holding a door open.

1944

[Gary.H]

This is the garbage one... the pipes are VERY thin and it cracks at both the header flange and lower flange and has no support bracket, i wouldn't use it for holding a door open.


Cheers Paul. For the purposes of avoidance who makes the garbage one ? Looks like the pipes aren't equal lengths either :eusa_naughty:

[Paul Woods]

After a few days wiring, a bit of intake plumbing and Maf adapter making followed by some exhaust work the engine now runs, fired up immediately without a single issue and sounds great.

Ignore the valvetrain noise on the video, i get that on every single startup video using my iphone, i've no idea why it does it but trust me the engine is very quiet in person.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohZfJLlqwh4

Now that it runs i can wrap up the wiring properly and finish off the finer details.

[snowtigger]

That looks factory like it was supposed to go in there 190bhp six speed mmmm nice.

[PERCULIS]

Paul's doing a great job here, 'factory' is what we're going for and we're very nearly there. I'm waiting for the 'Paul thrashing the car round his yard video'

[PERCULIS]

quick photo from our meet yesterday. 3 of the 4 Mk1 + that Paul's converted

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/25.jpg

[dgh938peg]

Nicely done!

Great pic too! :)

[snowtigger]

Loving the pic, any news as to how the cars are behaving?

[PERCULIS]

I've just polybushed mine and had the tracking done along with new tyres. It's running fine and I'm loving it. Handles like a MK1 drives like a MK1, just overtakes anything!

40mpg on a good run. much less if you're on it. Mark had flames coming out his exhaust yesterday :blowup:

[PERCULIS]

Oh and dyno runned at 184BHP at the fly

[snowtigger]

Cool sounds like a good engine choice to modernise the mk1, I think you can turbo these motors to 240bhp which would make a very entertaining racing package.

[Paul Woods]

Cracking pics :thumbsup:

[PERCULIS]

Eventually sorted myself out a new 6 speed shift pattern
3076

[Jiff Lemon]

I like that a lot - where did you source it? Or did you have it custom made?

[PERCULIS]

It was a custom job, cost me a few quid and I ended up with a few as there was a minimum order, not a big member so not going to advertise them here.

[PERCULIS]

I should also say I'm still loving the 2zz conversion.

Recently meet Rexer2000 who unfortunatly had to sell his AW11, he's got an S2000 now and I've also just sold a 54 plate S2000 with 38k. While the engine in that is mind blowing we both agree the handling on compliance of the MR2 is far better and to about 80mph there's no difference in aceleration between the two cars. after 100mph the S2000 leaves the little 2zz AW11 for dead. But I voted with my feet sold the S2000 for a tidy profit and kept the MR2.

[jumpman33]

Just tried to PM you some q's Perculis but your inbox is full :)

[PERCULIS]

Cleared some space

[PERCULIS]

Jumpman33 asked me some questions thought I may as well share the answers


I'm split with the conversion in some situations the original 4-age was better as you could drive it at 100% on the road the 2zz has much more on tap so you don't get so much chance to use it fully. That said I don't regret it one bit I've driven v6 conversions and they don't do it for me, they kill the go kart feel. This isn't a MK1.5 or MK1.6 it's just a MK1+, brilliant unspoilt handling with enough of a power increase to be a sleeper. 0-60 less than 6.5 seconds 0-100 about 14 seconds. and as all the power is at the top end it's a kitten to drive if you keep it off the cam and change up before 6200RPM

Two things I'd consider if I was to do it all again: either buy a standard 4-agze supercharger, it'd be cheaper and hold it's value better or go for the supercharged 215BHP 2zz-gze corolla compressor engine. The 4-agze could benefit from Pauls 6 speed conversion but you could get a car and do that for 7k. The 215BHP engine would allow a longer final drive to improve economy on big runs it'd also smooth out the torque curve and increase performance, Paul put one of these in a MK3 and it was a hoot of a drive.

I spent 3.5k on the car and another 4.5k on the conversion so it's not cheap but I've had a great time with it. My friend has a gt86 that I get to drive quite a lot and I'd consider that if I only had one car but I've got a big bus for everyday and winter use. The MK1 has so many good points.

[Jiff Lemon]

Two things I'd consider if I was to do it all again: either buy a standard 4-agze supercharger, it'd be cheaper and hold it's value better or go for the supercharged 215BHP 2zz-gze corolla compressor engine. The 4-agze could benefit from Pauls 6 speed conversion but you could get a car and do that for 7k. The 215BHP engine would allow a longer final drive to improve economy on big runs it'd also smooth out the torque curve and increase performance, Paul put one of these in a MK3 and it was a hoot of a drive.

He's already done a supercharged 2zz MK3! (is there any conversion he hasn't done yet?). The charger is a bit inefficient on the the Corolla with a lot of people going for a rotrex charger instead.

Love your summary too, really glad to see that car is still owned and obviously loved. I personally don't give two hoots about the cars "value" - I build for myself, and the chances of me ever selling them are so small, its micrometer time!

Whilst the engine is an absolute peach, its the gearbox that helps it shine; I had the longer 6th added to mine so cruising is fairly relaxed affair. Tootling around town, you'd never know the car has a different engine; but when you need to go, the box ensures you get every bit of joy out of the engine. And that, for me, is where the v6 conversions need looking at; There's not really a "perfect" matched gearbox to allow them to make use of their power.

[PERCULIS]

I agree Jiff, I've got the longer 6 too.

I'd love to see your car some time, is there a build thread?

How many 2zz Mk1s do we have now? last time I checked Paul had done 4 and one of those was headed for France. Rexer2000s car, the Blue one is still around but owned by someone else. Not sure about Peter Scratchard's Little Red Racer I've not had any contact with him.

[Jiff Lemon]

Oh my 2zz lives in my MK3! I've not seen any other Mk1 Conversions since the 4 that Paul did; I think the problem is that Mk1 owners are now hanging on to their "original" mk1s, rather than re-inventing them!

I'll be at JAE if you want to come compare drives though?

[PERCULIS]

Had a Mk3 SMT a few years ago, nice handling car but where's the boot!!!!!

[snowtigger]

Love this conversion, if I would do it again probably a 2zz with rotrex sc or turbo and that six speed is awesome work.

Mk1 are becoming sort after and for original ones the prices are going crazy, if it's looked after and totally mint people are asking thousands so not as cheap as what they were five years ago, I still love the 2gr as its an animal on the drag strip but as an every day car I can see the benefits of the 2zz swop.

[LawrenceSelly]

I'm totally considering this over a v6, it seems a lot easier to do with the wealth of T sport Corollas and Celicas knocking about, as well as 3 mounts all mating up leaving just one to fabricate yourself (compared to all of them with a V6)

Also as far as donor cars go, you only need 1, a T sport Corolla! with the only other parts being easily sorted on eBay (mk2 NA shafts (like £20) and if you want, a celica gearbox (£50) and a MK3 LSD.

Obviously there is a massive issue with wiring, but as a PC hardware guy I think that will be a piece of cake.

And obviously a manifold needs to be made up, but I think I would like the challenge of welding up a mild steel manifold by myself.

Seriously considering it!!

Just need my fiesta to sell XD

[PERCULIS]

I'm in Birmingham if you want to see my car Lawrence.

[LawrenceSelly]

I'm in Birmingham if you want to see my car Lawrence.

That would be awesome! next time I'm heading that way, or I have a free weekend I will give you a call. If you go to any meets, give me a PM and ill come too ^^

[Phaeton]

Getting a solid MK1 as a base is the issue

[snowtigger]

And mk1 are becoming sought after if they are in good order, best to buy the most solid shell you can afford than any thing else with a mk1, most of the cheap it's got a few bubbles on the arches it's nothing to worry about = it's as rotten as a pear you can't see how much has rusted away £1500 cars are gone by now.

Waxoil dinitrol the fuck out of every available crevice then upgrade the suspension brakes and engine and you have a great go kart crotch rocket, the more I see these 2zz conversions the more I like the idea.

[Phaeton]

And mk1 are becoming sought after if they are in good order, best to buy the most solid shell you can afford than any thing else with a mk1, most of the cheap it's got a few bubbles on the arches it's nothing to worry about = it's as rotten as a pear you can't see how much has rusted away £1500 cars are gone by now.

Waxoil dinitrol the fuck out of every available crevice then upgrade the suspension brakes and engine and you have a great go kart crotch rocket, the more I see these 2zz conversions the more I like the idea.

Been there done that, got the t-shirt & it still hurts when I sit down

[PERCULIS]

I had a stock mk1 for years and as they go it was pretty solid, original sills etc all in great condition but the arches were gone and I decided if I was spending big money on a conversion it should go in a solid shell, I think you'd be paying 5k+ for a car in condition mine is. Mr Woods thought it was the least rusty one he'd converted :-)

There's still good ones out there and there's imports too, Pretty sure converting from an auto isn't too hard if a new engine is going in anyway