Pat & Chris MR2 V6 Engine Swaperoo Project Thing!

[cdwood2010]

Happy New Year peeps!

Thought it was about time that Pat & I gave you all something to laugh at.

Pat (It's actually his car)

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/10.jpg

Pats MR2

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/11/60.jpg

The Donor Car

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/11.jpg

The Engine Out

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/12.jpg

The Engine Out A Bit More

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/13.jpg

The MR2 Engine Out

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/12/53.jpg

Engine Party

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/14.jpg

V6 Stripdown

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/15.jpg

V6 Stripdown (a bit more)

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/16.jpg

Thats pretty much where we are up to. We now have pretty much everything we need aside from a set of ignition leads (anyone got a set??) and the obvious bits and bobs that we won't know about until we get there, hoses etc maybe the odd connector.

So far with some careful buying and some selling of surplus parts etc the bill for the project (not including Pat's MR2) stands at £482. I'm sure that will go up a bit, but as i'm paying the bill until Pat coughs up, we are doing this on a shoestring, mainly because it's more fun.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm247/shitboxracing/mr2_project.jpg

I will update again as and when it happens, but if anyone is really bored, PM me and i will send you some more pics.

Hopefully this will help encourage other readers - all the other posts we have read have encouraged us!

Comments welcome!

Chris :icon_mrgreen: & Pat :eusa_pray:

[hmmmmm]

Good luck with the build mate! Already some nice progress!

Leads can be had for cheap here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-CAMRY-3-0i-V6-24V-3VZFE-91-96-IGNITION-LEADS-196-/370470864697?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5641c8c739), and oem toyota here (http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=getJointLocator&siteid=213747&chapter=&sectionids=3,2413&groupid=10029&subgroupid=60191&make=34&model=Camry&year=1992&catalogid=1&displayCatalogid=0)

[adamh]

good job on the price, i racked up over a K to date on the Mk1 swap/build, thats good brokering!

[Garbe]

Progressing nicely - that delivery pic looks remarkably like abington

[cdwood2010]

Good luck with the build mate! Already some nice progress!

Leads can be had for cheap here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-CAMRY-3-0i-V6-24V-3VZFE-91-96-IGNITION-LEADS-196-/370470864697?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5641c8c739), and oem toyota here (http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=getJointLocator&siteid=213747&chapter=&sectionids=3,2413&groupid=10029&subgroupid=60191&make=34&model=Camry&year=1992&catalogid=1&displayCatalogid=0)

Hi,

Yes, had that in my watch list for a while, but it occoured to me someone might have an old set somewhere. Might post a wanted before i splash out.

Forgot to add a couple of other pics earlier.....

Plenum Rebuild

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/17.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/18.jpg

I had some time to kill until Pat found a weekend free to come visit so we could start on the engine propper. I didn't want him to miss it!

More soon!

Chris :nerd: & Pat :eusa_pray:

[cdwood2010]

Progressing nicely - that delivery pic looks remarkably like abington

Hello mate!

Clearly you know your Northamptonshire architecture!

St James, just across town!

Chris :smile:

[cdwood2010]

good job on the price, i racked up over a K to date on the Mk1 swap/build, thats good brokering!

Hi Adam,

Yep, it's been a penny-pinching project, and your very kind help with the flywheel made a big diff to buying a new fly!

Regards,

Chris :smile:

[nik]

my mates (ben lane) garage is just round the corner from you just past the cosworth factory. if you ever need top notch help or tuning pay him a visit.. http://www.elitemotortune.co.uk/about

[cdwood2010]

Hello folks!

This weekend should see some more work being done on the MR2. In expectation i have done some cleaning up in the garage (so we can move) and put the car back on it's feet for now so we can move it out of the way a bit.

Seems to ride a bit higher now...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/52.jpg

Hanging Around
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm247/shitboxracing/Toyota%20MR2%20MK2%20V6%20Upgrade%20Project/Engine%20Refit/Image0223.jpg

We have an engine to rip out of the Rover Turbo (long story) but as soon as thats done we are hoping to get stuck into the MR2 and get the heads / water pump / belt etc back on.

Stay tuned for more exciting erm, stuff.

Chris :fart2: Pat

[dgh938peg]

TFR that bay & suspension bits - put her back together all clean :) makes all the difference for remedial work :icon_mrgreen:

[cdwood2010]

TFR that bay & suspension bits - put her back together all clean :) makes all the difference for remedial work :icon_mrgreen:

Jolly good point actually!

The crossmember will be coming back off so we will attend to the suspension bits then, but the engine bay i hadnt considered!

Fanx!

Chris :thumbsup:

[dgh938peg]

Mine has been in and out more times than i could shake a shitty stick at it. Having a clean bay and not getting coated in 20 year old smelly dirt makes all the difference :yelrotflmao:

[snowtigger]

Steam clean all the shit off first in the engine bay, 20 years of baked on crud salt and road grime wiped off looks tons better.

[cdwood2010]

Well, we spent most of saturday stripping the Rover 800 Turbo (another story altogether):-

I've changed my mind, put the wheels back on!

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/82.jpg

Saturday we did a tidgy bit more on the V6:-

Engine Cleanup

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/83.jpg

Water Pump Cleanup & Refit

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/84.jpg

Make Some More Mess In My Garage!

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/85.jpg

Fair play to Pat, i wouldn't have got the Rover done and dusted in one day on my own, and now that's out of the way (aside from the engine in the bottom right last pic) I have a bit more room to navigate aroun the MRToo!

This week i have mostly been cleaning up some of the parts from the V6 and I have started cleaning the crap from the heads, ready to refit soon.

Also picked up the core plugs (freeze plugs) i needed from the totty garage, so creeping foreward!

More soon!

Chris :icon_mrgreen: & Pat :eusa_pray: & Jamie (oppo for the weekend) :icon_confused:

[adamh]

good progress folks, very cold outside this weekend, a garage is a blessing.

[cdwood2010]

good progress folks, very cold outside this weekend, a garage is a blessing.

A garage is a blessing, but a calor gas heater is a godsend!

:icon_biggrin:

[cdwood2010]

Hello folks,

Quick update....

Dropped the heads in for a skim at a local engineering company as we decided that a scraper and a wire bush might ruin a perfectly good face - hopefully ready for collection Wednesday for the sum of £45 inc which i thought was quite good.

Started some assembly work this week:-

Cleaned up the oil filter mount and the sump / flywheel plate:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/110.jpg

Refit them!

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/111.jpg

Clean sump!

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/112.jpg

Clean up of the pulley / tensioner etc

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/113.jpg

I will be getting some cleanup work done this weekend / early next week. Clean down the bench (its a tip) so i can find things, clean up the gearbox (brown from a water leak) and generally sort out some space by throwing out all the stuff i'm sure we wont be needing.

Pat will be here next weekend, so we will hopefully be getting the heads back on and as much of the rebuild as we can manage.

I also have a trolley to build (butchering a creeper to do it) ready to slot the engine under the MR2 rear end.

More to follow!

Chris :slap: Pat

[cdwood2010]

Hello all,

While the heads were away being skimmed, i took the time to make a low slung trolley for when we get to put the engine back in:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/11.jpg

And also did some gearbox cleaning:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/12.jpg

And then i got the heads back! Not perfect but close enough:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/13.jpg

So all on track for this weekends engine rebuild.

I will post an update and some more pics early next week - that is unless we kill each other during the process!

Chris :poke2: Pat

[adamh]

good progress chris. gearbox oil needed? there may be a hole you need drill out when fitting the engine to the box (holes around the bellhousing) so keep in mind you may need split the box off again and re-drill a hole to get an extra bolt in on the bellhousing flange.

[cdwood2010]

good progress chris. gearbox oil needed? there may be a hole you need drill out when fitting the engine to the box (holes around the bellhousing) so keep in mind you may need split the box off again and re-drill a hole to get an extra bolt in on the bellhousing flange.

Thanks!

Gearbox oil needed? Yes we drained it before removal - last time i ended up rolling around in it which wasnt much fun (well not with my brother it wasnt!!!)

Drilling holes? oooh didnt know that - will mate the engine and box up and take a look.

Thanks!

Chris.:icon_mrgreen:

[cdwood2010]

Aw yeah! iPhone app, now we are cooking on gas!

http://184.72.239.143/mu/51955cbd-ed3a-b08a.jpg

More pics to follow!

Chris & Patricia

[cdwood2010]

Right, for all them wot has been following two monkeys trying an engine swap....

http://dummidumbwit.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/chimps2.jpg

Anyhootie, progress has had a shot in the arm since Pat realised that we are actually getting closer to having a complete car again.

I made Pat torque the heads on:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/35.jpg

And after a few rants at each other about policy (like either of us know WTF we are doing)...

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/36.jpg

Flywheel from Adam is perfect (i was a bit skeptical sorry!):-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/37.jpg

Bolts cut:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/38.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/39.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/40.jpg

Flywheel bolted on:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/41.jpg

Clean up the new injectors:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/42.jpg

And plop them in:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/43.jpg

Also fitted the plug leads, and we have made a start on matching up the engine and gearbox, but i might have to post a few questions on that one!

More soon!

Chris :coffee: :nunu: Pat

[snowtigger]

Looking good fellas your 3/4 into it not long now till a fire up vid, soon there's going to be loads of v6 mk2 and a glut of dead camrys with loads of 2 litre engines lie ing around, has no one thought of sticking the 2 litre in a camry?

[cdwood2010]

Yes I agree - that might actually mean that you would be able to sell the donor car again to offset the project spend.

Mind you, I would not have fancied the task of putting Any engine back in the lexus after we ripped it's heart out. Maybe next time we will think ahead!

Chris

[adamh]

we used a 9 inch grinder to remove ours :icon_mrgreen:

[cdwood2010]

Hello again!

Getting to grips with mating up the engine and box (many thanks to those who replied to my other post!)

Found another reason for the slightly soggy clutch on the 3S-GE:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/79.jpg

Fitted some EGR blanking plates (thank you Adam!):-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/80.jpg

Removed some very well seated dowels (Using the drill and drift method!):-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/76.jpg

Matched up the engine and box to see what went where:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/81.jpg

Drilled a hole bigger on the gearbox:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/82.jpg

Fitted the thrust bearing:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/83.jpg

Next on the list:-


Fit the clutch and fit the gearbox on for keeps
Assemble the fuel rails
Refit the loom
Get the mounts in place
Clean the engine bay (keep meaning to)
Get the car in the air and drop the crossmember


And then.....

PUT THE ENGINE IN!

We are actually in danger of having a complete vehicle again!

Stay tuned!

Chris :beer: Pat

[snowtigger]

Epicaly Cool thread can't wait for the fire up vid fantastic news well chuffed, carry on next week running in lol.

[cdwood2010]

Oh yes, pat has been getting steadily more excited as we have gone on, but once I started putting bolts in place for the engine and box and reviewing the small pile of bolts we have left, it suddenly dawned on me that the end was in sight.

Chris

[adamh]

good work as always!, have you got an exhaust system for this car or will you be making a mid-pipe for the downpipe to backbox?

[cdwood2010]

good work as always!, have you got an exhaust system for this car or will you be making a mid-pipe for the downpipe to backbox?

Hi adam,

Well, the plan is to rework the downpipe / Y section into one fat unrestricted pipe and then (somehow) graft that into the n/a plumbing. I say n/a but it was anything but. I will post some pics of it when we get to that stage. It was a bit Frankenstein and had a couple of small blows, but golly it sounded nice on the 4-pot, should sound awesome with the 6-pot burble....

Toyota MR2 Mk2 2.0 16v Engine Last Hurrah Before Removal! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuX5a7tEx8Q)

As with most of the work we have done, we will be making it up as we go using our project motto:-

"Beg, Steal, Borrow, then hammer it and get the mig out"

Chris :icon_mrgreen:

[snowtigger]

a word of warning on the exhaust front some na systems have an effect of strangling the horse power, it may be good to get a cheap ebay turbo box and weld to that or as nick has done adapt a scooby box or another turbo cheap box.

[adamh]

ah .. , in your last pic, and hanging off the right off the box you'll see the front mount engine mount bracket, the two holes holding it on usually strip with the torque after a while and its a complete git to repair in situ unless you have a good set of tools. At this time, its good to take that mount off, and either heli-coil the holes now, or, make sure you use some high strength (638/648) loctite when re-assembling. the problem is bags of torque will now rattle those threads in the bores and they will strip. i would have lent you my helicoil kit had someone not have kept it before. Get yourself a small bottle of 638, liberally smother all over and down the bores, torque them up well. Unless that is you have a M12 helicoil kit to hand, or by chance an m14 tap and some m14 hex set screws (fully threaded bolts).

[cdwood2010]

a word of warning on the exhaust front some na systems have an effect of strangling the horse power, it may be good to get a cheap ebay turbo box and weld to that or as nick has done adapt a scooby box or another turbo cheap box.

I will get a pic posted of the exhaust that was on the car see hwat you guys think. I have a funny feeling it has had some work dont on it (many scars!) but any observations greatfully received!

Chris :icon_confused:

[cdwood2010]

ah .. , in your last pic, and hanging off the right off the box you'll see the front mount engine mount bracket, the two holes holding it on usually strip with the torque after a while and its a complete git to repair in situ unless you have a good set of tools. At this time, its good to take that mount off, and either heli-coil the holes now, or, make sure you use some high strength (638/648) loctite when re-assembling. the problem is bags of torque will now rattle those threads in the bores and they will strip. i would have lent you my helicoil kit had someone not have kept it before. Get yourself a small bottle of 638, liberally smother all over and down the bores, torque them up well. Unless that is you have a M12 helicoil kit to hand, or by chance an m14 tap and some m14 hex set screws (fully threaded bolts).

And thats before you factor in Pat's driving!

Thanks for the tip, i will be sure to look into that.

Chris :thumbsup:

[snowtigger]

I have had to fix one of these insitu was a pain in the arse, but we were told to use a bit bigger threaded self cutting bolt, and plenty of that stud/threadlock you could also do pauls excellent shockabsorber engine/gearbox bracket mod as seen on dm and walletrape that fker won't ever pull out I hope lol.

[cdwood2010]

Ok, got some pics of the exhaust - excuse the quality.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/88.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/89.jpg

Pat reckons it will be fine (if the V6 throb doesnt pop it open).

Thoughts guys?

Chris :poke2: Pat

[snowtigger]

Shit buy a turbo and use the old one for bits, get a mongoose or some other cheap secondhand turbo one as the smallest pipe will be to restrictive.

Nick got a Mitsubishi or was it scooby secondhand for a tenner it's just not worth the hassle mate.

[cdwood2010]

Yeah might do once it's alive but as we are sticking to a shoestring policy for now the plan will be to graft the original one to a reworked downpipe. It did the 2.0 engine proud tbph.

Once we have established that we have a running car I suspect pat will want to pump some cash in....

Unless someone has a very cheap turbo box they want to part with!?!?

Stay tuned!

Chris.

[nik]

I have the kakimoto from kyt if you want it..its 3" all the way through. A bit untidy now so needs a good rub down and hitemp paint but sounds great and comes with mounts already welded in place, so easy to bolt straight on.
Its complete back to the crossmember so you'd need a flexi mid to downpipe making to fit.
free to a good home though you'd have to collect from dorset.

[cdwood2010]

I have the kakimoto from kyt if you want it..its 3" all the way through. A bit untidy now so needs a good rub down and hitemp paint but sounds great and comes with mounts already welded in place, so easy to bolt straight on.
Its complete back to the crossmember so you'd need a flexi mid to downpipe making to fit.
free to a good home though you'd have to collect from dorset.

Nik,

Yes please! Sure you dont want somthing for it?

Collection (as i'm in Northampton) would it be ok to arrange a courier? Is it courierable? Might be able to Shiply it (someone must be heading this way!) Just stick it in a black bag an put some tape around it!

If thats ok PM me some details.

Thanks again!

Chris.

[nik]

no dont want anything for it, maybe make a donation to the club if you like.
it's quite heavy to courier but will try and weigh it and get a price for you with parcel monkey.
my parents live up npton way but i have no idea when i'll be visiting them next or i could bring it up for you.

[cdwood2010]

no dont want anything for it, maybe make a donation to the club if you like.
it's quite heavy to courier but will try and weigh it and get a price for you with parcel monkey.
my parents live up npton way but i have no idea when i'll be visiting them next or i could bring it up for you.

Deal, might need some guidance on that tho.

If you might be up this way in the near future that would be great, otherwise i am happy to try it on http://www.shiply.com and see if theres someone game.

Chris :icon_mrgreen:

[nik]

120cm x 90cm x 40cm at <20kg will be £11.99+vat mate..with parcel force 24hr.

[cdwood2010]

120cm x 90cm x 40cm at <20kg will be £11.99+vat mate..with parcel force 24hr.

Ok that will play.

Will PM you now with details.

Chris :icon_mrgreen:

[cdwood2010]

And the case continues!

Clutch on:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/130.jpg

Gearbox on:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/131.jpg

Loom on:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/132.jpg

Loom on a bit more:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/133.jpg

And where the hell does this go????

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/134.jpg

Next tasks are:-

Finish off refitting the loom
Refit the plenum / fan belt / starter

Pat is here next weekend for another 'Big Push' = engine in!!!

Wont be long now!!!!

Chris :poke2: Pat

[snowtigger]

next weekend brrrm looney vid as mk2 goes sideways action can't wait for it , not long now eh till you have to give the keys back?

[cdwood2010]

I want to see some drinking vouchers first!!!!

And it's mine to play with for a bit before Pat gets it back...

Not sure i mentioned that to him! :blabla:

Chris

[cdwood2010]

Forgot to include the latest tally on what we have spent.

I made some adjustments based on surplus bits that i'm keeping.

The stuff in pink we could have got away without in all fairness....

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/139.jpg

We are not quite there yet of course, we will wait for the smug factor once its in and running...

Chris :slap: Pat

[dgh938peg]

If that's the plug on the end of the loom beneath the plenum near cylinder 1 then it goes nowhere fella - leave it loose :)

You won't be disappointed with the clutch - the holding force is fantastic though the bite is a little vicious!!!

[cdwood2010]

Yeah that's the one - I think looking at it, it ran a couple of ancillaries that we threw away, but I wasn't sure if it needed to be grafted in somewhere.

The clutch was a gamble to be honest. Cheap enough and supposed to take up to 300bhp but it had mixed reviews. The clamping pressure when I fitted it was quite impressive. Are you familiar with them?

Chris.

[dgh938peg]

I have one on mine. Had an exedy before that would slip. This thing is ferocious! No slip at all :)

[cdwood2010]

Oh yeah we are cooking now people:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/157.jpg

A couple more tidy up jobs (odd bolts and a couple of pipes to replicate) and we are ready to get that ass in the air (the MR2 i mean)!

Next weekend Pat (aka scarlet pimpernel!) will be here, so we are hoping for the final push!

Now everyone one of you wish us luck! Lord knows we need it!

Chris :eusa_pray: & Pat :eusa_pray:

[nik]

great progress mates..like you said fire up next weekend then!?!?

[adamh]

good work.. its cogitating stuff an approaching V6.

[cdwood2010]

Oh yes, next weekend should be interesting.

We have double / triple checked as much as possible as we have rebuilt, and we have all our pieces in place ready, time will tell if our little project is succesful.

I do not think we would have got this far without the kind help of so many people on this forum, so if this does go terribly terribly wrong youre all to blame too!

Chris :icon_mrgreen:

[cdwood2010]

Many thanks to Nik for this fine addition to our project.

I actually thought he had sent me some drainpipe for 'a bit of laugh'. I think this bit of plumbing will be great for waking up the neighbours! And removing some earwax!

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/5.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/6.jpg

Chris :icon_mrgreen:

[nik]

no probs matey, give her a rub down and paint, sorted!

[cdwood2010]

Getting there!

1788

More soon!

Chris and pat (the gimp in the photo)

[cdwood2010]

And a bit more.....

1789

[cdwood2010]

Pat getting his head around The wiring using Mr Woods fabulous guide....

1790

[snowtigger]

That bit there goes to that bit there easy, buggered if your colour blind.

[ColleyV8]

Are you finished yet?

[cdwood2010]

Nearly......

We stopped for some dinner!

1791

1792

[snowtigger]

Was it spaghetti ?

[cdwood2010]

It's alive!

Can't upload a video from iPhone for some reason, but I will do that as soon as I get a minute.

12.15 am, packing up soon but will finish off first thing tomorrow.....

Chris and a very giddy pat!

:)

[snowtigger]

Holy shit batman I thought I would log on while droping a log off, and yahoo vid vid vid this morning, well chuffed for you and pat test drives and brown trousers time.

[cdwood2010]

hello people!

well as much as i find it hard to believe, the engine is in. and it runs. yes really! didnt run it for long as we havent plumbed it in properly yet.

As soon as the fuel made its way to the rails it fired. There were a few choice words about the cold start injector which i seem to have failed to nip up. My garage smells lovely.

the wiring was more straightforward than we thought, aside from a few arguments on what constitutes a colour. i had to beat pat with a leg from the hoist at one point. cheeky little bitch.

I would officially like to thank everyone for their help on getting this far. we could and would not have got to where we are without the help and advice from you fine bunch of jap-obsesssed petrol heads!

Special thanks to Mr Paul Woods. That wiring guide is awesome. And apparently idiot proof as we have just proved.

More work tommorrow when we have had some sleep......

Pat is, to say the very least, as giddy as a kitten.

Anyway here's our small but perfectly acceptable first start up vid....


http://s298.photobucket.com/albums/mm247/shitboxracing/?action=view&current=IMG_0198.mp4

[dgh938peg]

Well done you two!! Nothing like the feeling when you turn the key for the first time and it fires!! The wiring guide is amazing! This is from somebody who once made an extension lead at work with 2 plugs on it!!!

[nik]

Very nice one fellas!!!

[adamh]

well done chaps, its a brill drive :thumbsup:

added to swap register , which needs a full research and update for any missed swaps last year, if anyone has a start date and a swap thread we have missed please add it on the bottom of the register and it will be edited.

[cdwood2010]

Wiring tidy up.....

1794

Pat is now tidying the engine bay electrics and I'm figuring out what we can use for plumbing the water pipes in....

More soon!

Chris and Pat

[Garbe]

Has very quick,looksie today. Pleasure to meet you guys. Hopefully pop over soon and maybe get me hands dirty.

[cdwood2010]

Yeah, I was a bit upset you didn't bring overalls and tools!

;)

Great to meet you and thanks for helping out with the mounts.

Welcome anytime, car should be on it's feet soon, getting the lump in and firing was a massive leap forward!

Plumbing next then strap the wheels back on an sort that 3" pipe out!

Chris

[cdwood2010]

Hello peeps,

Thought i would fill in some gaps as we were a bit busy / tired / overexcited on the weekend!

We got the car up in the air using the hoist, more than high enough. We used a big pair of ramps and a lot of wooden blocks, which i might hang onto for the next one cos it worked really well:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/28.jpg

I made an engine trolley out of a Halfords creeper, which seemed to hold the engine and box ok and made slipping the engine under the back end very easy:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/29.jpg

Lowered the car back down in the same manner and then lifted the engine up through the car:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/30.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/31.jpg

Wiring guide in hand (thanks to Mr Woods!):-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/32.jpg

Had to 'modify' the ECU brackets because i sold the MR2 one with the brackets still on it!!!!

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/33.jpg

Wiring finished!

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/34.jpg

It was well after midnight Saturday when we got it firing, but it literally fired as soon as fuel hit the injectors. I was gobsmacked! Pat was doing backflips!

Will be spending the next few nights getting the tidy up jobs finished, then the car will be back on it's feet. I'm fairly confident the exhaust wont take me long to fabricate (thanks again to Nik for the drainpipe!)

I also updated a thread on PistonHeads, of course giving praise to both Mr Woods and TwoBrutal!

PistonHeads thread (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=47&t=907998&mid=151130&nmt=1991+Toyota+MR2+Mk2+V6+3VZ-FE+Upgrade+%28hopefully%29)

Stay tooned!!!

Chris :icon_mrgreen: :thumbsup: Pat

[cdwood2010]

Hello all,

Another quick pic update!

Front mount drilled out a bit:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/80.jpg

And fitted:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/81.jpg

Water pump rad pipe fitted (cut down MR2 one):-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/82.jpg

The other rad pipe i re-routed and utilised the metal water pipe from the bulkhead. I cut off one of the brackets, the U bend at one end and fixed the other bracket to the bottom of the bulkead:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/83.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/84.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/85.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/86.jpg

Fitted up ok but i will fill the system with plain water to start with and test for leaks.

Next i need to sort the heater water pipes and tidy up the fuel lines (which should be here monday). At present we have the fuel filter dangling so the pipe would reach, but this needs to be replaced in the bracket. The plan is to replace the return with braided hose, and cut the ends on the fuel feed pipe and clamp up new pipe between them.

Had guests this weekend so have not been in the garage really. Hopefully get the engine running propper this week!

More soon!

Chris :jump:

[Garbe]

I see you had the vacuum cleaner handy - tis a tidy garage you have, now I know why lol

[cdwood2010]

I see you had the vacuum cleaner handy - tis a tidy garage you have, now I know why lol

Oh yeah, thats usually for hoovering out the garage ash tray....

;)

Chris.

[cdwood2010]

Hello people!

Quick update - after a few more slight bodges and the addition of some vital fluids, the car now starts nice and happy. I think the timing is out a bit, when we put the dizzy back on we fitted it "about there" based on pics and some marks on the head. Best guess doesnt come close. Surprised it actually ran!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJq1IBJqvA4

Took some pics of the fuel lines / water lines / coil pack (ahem) solution.

Hopefully put the undercrackers back on 2moro and then start on the exhaust.

More soon!

Chris :icon_mrgreen: & Pat :thumbsup:

[snowtigger]

Cmon chris your slacking , I thought this would be up and joining around by now lol.

[cdwood2010]

I thought this would be up and joining around by now lol.

Guess youre on your iPhone too!

WTF is "Joining around" ?

And yes, but i had the clan visit on the weekend, so didnt get much done. Pat is freaking out like he was missing the birth of his first child!

Chris :)

[snowtigger]

Should be hooning fecking iPhone dictionary, I put Paul woods in and got lazy Irish gob shite, then I put me in and got work shy lazy barstard , who programs these things they must know me lol.

[adamh]

good work chris. you've nobled it at a good rate so far

[Galee]

Well done boys keep up the good work.

[Garbe]

Well done, great feeling when it's running. I've got a timing light if you need it - just got to find it first.

[cdwood2010]

Well done, great feeling when it's running. I've got a timing light if you need it - just got to find it first.

Cheers mate, but I think I have one in the garage, seem to have tidied it away somewhere.....might get back to you!

Chris.

[cdwood2010]

Started work on the exhaust today. Pondered putting the standard pownpipes etc on (because I'm quite lazy) but i promised Pat i would make a new front section, so i have cut the headers off ready to start sizing up what i need. Ive got a big flexi that came off the Rover T16 and i should be able to fabricate a nice Y piece to sit in there somewhere. will update with some more pics when I get a bit further on with it, probably be Saturday now before I get back on it.

Chris

[cdwood2010]

Right, thought i would fill in the gaps...

Fuel lines prepped:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/130.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/131.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/132.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/133.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/134.jpg

Heater matrix water pipes sorted. I think these came from the Rover Turbo, but hey, what the hell - they fit and they hold liquid:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/135.jpg

Next i looked at the coil pack (again), because when i tried to fit the AFM in tidy, it sat on the coil HT lead. Not a good idea, even for me! Hasad suggested modifying the MR2 coil pack bracket, but, erm, well, we sold that weeks ago. So i went with what we had - the 3VZ one:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/136.jpg

And managed to achieve this with some cutting and bending:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/137.jpg

Not perfect, but its mounted firmly and it's now out of the way.

Next the charcoal canister jobbler thing. I shuffled it up a bit in it's bracket, and it bolted nicely into one of the bolt holes left from the metal water pipe that i pinched from the bulkhead:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/138.jpg

Now i'm working on the exhaust. After some deliberating i took out the TwoBrutal standard issue modification tool:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/139.jpg

While i was on a roll, i also had a look at the infamous baffle:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/140.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/141.jpg

Next we find out just how good my welding is (or isnt) as i try to make a front section (with Y and flexi) out of some old pipes, a nun's outfit, a tube of instant gasket, snot and a lot of wishful thinking...

Stay tooned!

Chris :beer: Pat

[dgh938peg]

The feed connection on the engine - you should have cut the metal outer off that was clamping the rubber and pulled the rubber off. That would have left you with a nice barbed fitting rather than a straight. Id be tempted to put a screw type jubilee clip on it to make doubly sure it holds bud :)

That coil bracket you could have also got away with tweaking the brackets and bolting it to the same holes as the charcoal canister bracket but hey - what you've got there is a working solution so well done :)

[cdwood2010]

Oooh, didn't know that about the fuel line, will make sure I do it right on the next one! :)

Yeah, those clamps on the fuel and water will probably all get replaced before we are done, was just keen to get the car together.

Chris

[cdwood2010]

Guess what? We are idiots. Yes its official. Mr Woods (waffles be upon him) has clarified.

Picture my joy here....

Seems we neglected to set the backlash on the cams when we installed them, so once I have stopped kicking myself (& Pat) violently we will be rewinding a bit to set things straight. I will most likely tidy some things up on the way.

We did argue about the cams when we installed them, but neglected to ask as we were 'caught up in the moment'.

Let that be a lesson to us / everyone / anyone....

On a brighter note, I cheered myself up a bit by rustling up a FO huge G&T and fitting a ridiculous spoiler. Those with a wobbly belly look away now.

Pats idea (again) not mine.

1833

Chris

[ColleyV8]

I like it, just had Woods spot my cams from 50 feet.

[cdwood2010]

Yeah, that's what caught my attention.

Damn he's good.

:)

Chris

[snowtigger]

Fook me that spoilers not as big as my one lol.

You going for maximum down force you may need a spreader plate so it doesn't rip that off .

[cdwood2010]

Fook me that spoilers not as big as my one lol.

You going for maximum down force you may need a spreader plate so it doesn't rip that off .

Erm, whats a spreader plate? Do you mean to stop it tearing out of the boot?

Although it will probably get ripped right off when Pat flips the car day #1!

Pat saw "Tokyo Drift" and that pretty much decided it. He's only (a mental age of) twelve...

Chris :icon_mrgreen:

[ColleyV8]

What did you do with the existing spoiler holes?

[cdwood2010]

What did you do with the existing spoiler holes?

Left them at present!

Might try and find some tidy rubber plugs to go in there until we get around to sorting the bodywork.

Chris.

[snowtigger]

you dont mean ichi ban driving school i wonder if you go down to tokyo!!!! fast and furious ich ich just so happens to be my ring tone lol, and you wonder why i have a big spoiler.

and yes the plates for underneath so it doesnt either pull through or some large washers, otherwise your going to get a ripply effect rear boot lid as they try and pull out bit like a loose tooth.

i have ff tokyo drift on blue ray with extended music lol has to be in my top 10 films.

[cdwood2010]

i have ff tokyo drift on blue ray with extended music lol has to be in my top 10 films.

Oh dear....

:icon_mrgreen:

[dgh938peg]

Ignore the acting and look at the cars, music and driving - makes it a supreme film :)

That certainly is a BGW :D

[nik]

On a brighter note, I cheered myself up a bit by rustling up a FO huge G&T and fitting a ridiculous spoiler. Those with a wobbly belly look away now.

Pats idea (again) not mine.

1833
Chris

at least if its sunny at jae we can all sit under it for shade..!

[dgh938peg]

Of if you feel like standing - rest your beers on it!!!

[cdwood2010]

at least if its sunny at jae we can all sit under it for shade..!

Dont be silly, it's so i can iron my shirt!

All i need now is a 12v iron!

Chris :)

[nickp]

Guess what? We are idiots. Yes its official. Mr Woods (waffles be upon him) has clarified.

Picture my joy here....

Seems we neglected to set the backlash on the cams when we installed them, so once I have stopped kicking myself (& Pat) violently we will be rewinding a bit to set things straight. I will most likely tidy some things up on the way.

We did argue about the cams when we installed them, but neglected to ask as we were 'caught up in the moment'.

Let that be a lesson to us / everyone / anyone....

Chris

That's a bitch Chris!! :eusa_doh: Engine back out then is it? Luckily I'd heard about this and did ours.

[cdwood2010]

Hell no!

Hopefully we can do it in situ. Mr W said it was 'a bit of a pain' so I'm probably saving it for the weekend.

Will strip the top off and go from there, really don't want to take the engine back out if I can help it.

Kicking myself somewhat. It was sat on the trolley long enough, could have done it ten times over.

Chris

[nickp]

Good luck Chris, I too think it might be 'a bit of a pain'.

[cdwood2010]

Good luck Chris, I too think it might be 'a bit of a pain'.

Well, oddly enough it wasn't!

We managed to just remove the exhaust cams and reset them!

Sorted!

Chris & Pat
:) :)

[snowtigger]

Well chuffed for you mate glad it was an easy fix, some thing you won't forget on the next one eh.

I've never heard the v6 sound like a Massey ferguson tractor before, I bet it runs and sounds a lot sweeter now?

[Paul Woods]

I meant "bit of a pain" as in having to take the plenum and cam covers back off etc.

[cdwood2010]

I meant "bit of a pain" as in having to take the plenum and cam covers back off etc.

Hi Paul

Yes figured that's what you meant when we got stuck into it!

Really thought we were going to have to strip the belt, pulleys, cams etc etc so well pleased.

Left us plenty of time yesterday to make a new downpipe set.....

Chris & Pat

[cdwood2010]

I bet it runs and sounds a lot sweeter now?

hi Tigs

Oh yes, it's a lot sweeter now, especially with our home made exhaust.

Will upload some pics and dribble on a bit later.

Chris.

[nik]

how does the kakimoto sound on the v6 matey?

[cdwood2010]

how does the kakimoto sound on the v6 matey?

Nik

The Kaki sounds fab, meant to add a link to the build thread but I will have to do it 2moro.

I meant to get back to you on that too - turns out it was a bit of a lifesaver as the original MR2 one was a bit shagged on closer inspection.

The front pipe we made fitted up lovely to it, and I have to say it was a lot quieter than I expected, but it has a great burble!

Thanks again!

Chris :) & Pat :)

[cdwood2010]

Quick update, sorry if this thread jumps around a bit....

We managed to sort the backlash cogs on the cams fairiy easilly:-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/182.jpg

Front bank was fairly easy to get to, the rear bank we had to remove the plenum etc. but all fairly low drama.

Next we finished the exhaust front section, as you may have seen me rattling about on another thread "Frankensteins Downpipe":-

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/183.jpg

Yeah ok, it looks a tad rough but does the job.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/184.jpg

Then the car finally emerged from the garage, where it has been hiding out the winter months. Cant believe it was November when we parked it up and ripped the 3S-GE out!

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/185.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/186.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/187.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/188.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wPbfgscHlY

To say Pat is "quite chuffed" would be an understatement!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwT2SYBAEF0

We have a few more things to finish off, air filter, check timing, check a few bolts etc but the car should be ready for the MOT soon. Might transport the car down to South Wales for Pat to take care of the last few tasks and then he can bugger about back and forth to the MOT station - at least it will keep him busy - and smiling!

The build spend still hovers around the £500 mark, but i will stick a copy of the balance sheet on this thread when i have added the last couple of bits.

More soon!

Chris :eusa_dance::eusa_dance: Pat

[snowtigger]

looking good there is he south wales or north wales/

doh homer late night posting i see south wales he can go see podge and rowan the welsh posse then lol.

[cdwood2010]

looking good there is he south wales or north wales/

doh homer late night posting i see south wales he can go see podge and rowan the welsh posse then lol.

Hi tiggs,

He's near Llanelli, just the other side of Swansea.

Chris :)

[ColleyV8]

Mate, well done. Looks impressive, can't wait to get mine done now.

If your up in Scotland, give me a shout

[cdwood2010]

Yes, we are quite pleased with ourselves.

The 3S-GE was a bit "end of life" when we removed it. We think it was either the Bedford track day last spring or maybe Pats Nurby trip in September with a water leak and the oil light on. I think he got his moneys worth out of that engine.

So by the time we parked it up, it was starting to lag. And as Pat drives a TDi most of the time the MR2 now feels scarily fast!

Then my missus announced that she didnt think it would ever run. Cheeky cow.

Women eh?

Chris.

[wood_patrick]

Well its about time I started updating the thread as well as my big bro. :-)

Car is back home in South Wales, came down last Sunday on a flatbed trailer after a lot of shouting at screaming (mostly by me) as I was a little nervous about the car ending up on its roof or falling off.... :-o

Will be hopefully going for MOT next week. Spent the weekend touching up the exhuast as had a few small holes and cutting out the passenger side rear sill (O/S was done last year) and then rebuilding. Just got inner side to finish off and then its ready for MOT. :-D Feeling fairly optimistic about it passing first time, but just want to take it for a spin really. :-)

Anyways, got some more pics to upload which will do later on and another video of me giving it some beans on the drive which sounds lovely with thanks to the rear exhuast from Nik.

More to follow!

Pat & Chris.

[snowtigger]

You need to do a foxy stoat vid search the tube or a "on a private road" vid so we can hear that kakimoto roar.

[wood_patrick]

Yeah I know, but no where close where I can get it to.... :'(

Have got a video (although its a bit crappy pic & sound) which Im gonna upload after until I get to take it to MOT the scenic route.... ;-)

Will get a tidy one then I hope. :-)

[Torero]

Pat,

I am in Swansea for the week after Easter and my best mate lives in Llanelli, any chance I could call round and check out the V6 and Kaki if the beast it's MOT'd?

Been loving the build thread and Chris's comments are emtertaining to say the least.

John.

[wood_patrick]

Hi John,

Yep more than welcome! Love any excuse to show it off. Lol.

Getting MOT'd within the next week and then insurance and TAX going live from 1st May just in time for the bank holiday. Whoop Whoop! :-D

And know what you mean with Chris's comments, even makes me laugh. His nickname of Frankensteins.... er.... Willy for the exhuast still makes me giggle.

Will PM you a mobile number so feel free to give a call or text whenever suits.

Patrick

[Torero]

PM received and replied Pat.

Looking forward to seeing it even if it is not mobile, always good just to chat to a fellow TBer. I can also have a moan about the dent some fecker has put in my rear wing.

[wood_patrick]

Lol. Can sympathise on the dent. I let someone have a spin in mine at the 'ring couple of years back (was 3S-GE then) and he lost it we spun off the track, brushed the paint off on the armco then back on to the track again...

Still got a warwound if you look on the vids. Back left corner. Its a constant reminder not to let others drive my car and how lucky I was not be embedded into a german barrier... :-o

At worst, we can pop a couple of beers and just leave it ticking over in the background. Much better than any radio imo.

Pat & Chris

[Torero]

At worst, we can pop a couple of beers and just leave it ticking over in the background. Much better than any radio imo.

Now you're speaking my language Pat:praise2:

Catch you soon.

[wood_patrick]

Lol. I'll make up the spare bed...


Now you're speaking my language Pat:praise2:

Catch you soon.

[wood_patrick]

Right then, doing some of the faffy work on my little baby and wanted to pick anyones brain that might be able to help....

I've got a Clifford Concept 500 alarm thats installed on the car and was working fine (well apart from remote central locking but hoping a loose wire...) and there was a big thick brown wire that went to the IGN- connector next to the diagnosis port on the 3S-GE loom.

Im currently digging through a vast collection on PDF's on my pc to locate a wiring diagram but arent having a great success in locating what/where that wire goes to on a 3VZ-FE. Some of the 3S-GE loom was chopped up/off so havent started pulling it apart yet (Which may be easier and quicker?) but thought I would ask away in case anyone else has had similar/same issues. I'm assuming it should go to the ignition live (black/yellow) on a 3VZ-FE as when enabled, the alarm continues to provide power to the engine which would normally be stopped when turning off the ignition but really dont want to guess it.

ANy input apprecaited. :-)

Pat & Chris

[mrT]

mate if you can tell me where on the alarm that particular wire comes from, Ie which pin or colour, I may be able to advise where you can connect it,
I know my way round clifford alarms and shouldn't be too much bother,
from your description it seems this is the permanent live feed for the alarm, but I wouldn't want to just guess without any more info in case you plumb it in and see some smoke from the dash..

[wood_patrick]

Hi,

I hadnt thought about it from that angle! Good plan! I cant get to it at the moment as its all plumbed under the seat but will try get to it tomorrow. :-)

I dont think its for a permanent live feed as it wouldve been a closer run to the battery than the engine when installing, and the alarm comes on and works but wont keep the engine running (or remote start) and thats the only wire from the alarm that went to the engine. There was another one that went to the boot light which I think was just an easy way of telling if someone opened the boot when the alarm was set?

And yep, thats what I was scared of doing... Lol.

Will dig out the alarm controller and update!

Also, will try check for voltage on the wire with a MM and see what it does when I try remote start/stop?

Pat &Chris


mate if you can tell me where on the alarm that particular wire comes from, Ie which pin or colour, I may be able to advise where you can connect it,
I know my way round clifford alarms and shouldn't be too much bother,
from your description it seems this is the permanent live feed for the alarm, but I wouldn't want to just guess without any more info in case you plumb it in and see some smoke from the dash..

[mrT]

right o, now we see more light,
so if my theory is correct and knowing clifford alarms it probably is..lol
that is your rpm sensor wire,the job of the rpm wire is to feed the rpm pulse to the alarm to tell it the engine is running after the alarm has cranked the engine over, but before it cranks the engine it sends a feed to the wire, sort of a saftey check, if the rpm wire is disconnected the alarm will not remote start the car,
depending on who installs the alarm , some installers will take a feed of the ignitor, and others will take a feed from the rpm signal from behind the clocks,
you can either look at the ignition pulse wire at your ignitor or route that wire to the rpm/tacho signal from the back or the clocks or even the rpm signal wire at the ecu, any one of the 3 points can be used, let me know if it works,
if it still gives you grief, as I said above, trace it back to alarm brain and let me know the colour and pin location and I should be able to tell you what it it

[wood_patrick]

Had to read that a few times to get to grips but getcha now. :-)

So would that prevent the alarm from keeping the engine running after I turn off the ignition? I used to have to press a button on the fob to tell it I wanted to use remote start/stop then turn off the ignition and remove key and it would keep running until I pressed the star key but it doesnt do that now... Also, Im guessing that any generic reading from the rpm counter will do as the 3S-GE was 3 pulse and 3VZ-FE is 5 pulse?

Will do a MM check on the cable and update where it goes to on the alarm controller before connecting just in case.... Come to far to risk it. Lol.

Pat & Chris

[mrT]

Yep u got it correct, that one wire disconnected will stop remote start from keeping car running when u turn key off, once u have connected it back up, u will need to access the alarm brain with Clifford software and program the remote starter to now recognize 6 pulses instead of 4, rest should be fine, that's the only setting u will need to change, I can guide u thru thr process when u are at that stage. Will need to have engine running while u do it tho

[wood_patrick]

Well might have problems there... I bought the car with the alarm already installed and only have 1 normal user fob (not a master) so dont have any leads/software - Well thats if im supposed to?

Im *hoping* it was connected to the ignitor as assume the signals will be similar between a 3S-GE and 3VZ-FE enough to just switch without too much fuss? :-\

If it was connected to the ignitor would that be a simple switch/rewire or would I have similar problems?

As I was saying this, I hadnt thought to look at the wiring diagram for the 3VZ-FE diagnostic port and have now realised the same "IG-" showing on the 3VZ-FE diagnostic port, but in a different place than it was on the 3S-GE (Minor detail really). Would the signals the alarm recieves from the ignitor be different on a 3VZ-FE than that of a 3S-GE?

This may yet (im my optimistic voice) prove to be simpler than I thought.... *fingers crossed* Lol.

PAt & Chris




Yep u got it correct, that one wire disconnected will stop remote start from keeping car running when u turn key off, once u have connected it back up, u will need to access the alarm brain with Clifford software and program the remote starter to now recognize 6 pulses instead of 4, rest should be fine, that's the only setting u will need to change, I can guide u thru thr process when u are at that stage. Will need to have engine running while u do it tho

[wood_patrick]

Thinking about it again (my head is starting to hurt now and Im tired if Im making less sense than normal if thats possible....) whether its conncted to the RPM counter or the ignitor its going to be getting more signals. 5 pulse instead of 3 for rpm counter, then 6 instead of 4 for ignitor. Well in my head anyway, unless thats what you meant in last but one post of 6 and 4 pulse and I didnt click.... :-\

Im assuming the alarm will just think the engine is running faster in either case, but how would that affect the remote start stop? Would it actually care if it thinks the car is idling at 1,500 instead of 1,000 or whatever difference it be?

[mrT]

Only signal difference I can see happening would be the 6 pulses rather than 4, the wire on the ignitor Is usually the 1st wire from the left if u are looking at the connector from behind when it is plugged in, on 3sgte its white with a blue stripe, might be same on yours but could be different colour, if in doubt just extend the disconnected wire and splice it to the ecu loom on the rpm wire. I should be able to find that tomorrow for u as my diagrams on pc and its in use at the mo

[mrT]

The alarm once it has started the car up has to keep it idling, that's why it needs the correct pulse signal as it feeds it back to the car, as your imobilisor is still enabled while the car is remote started, if have wrong number of pulses set the remote starter won't be able to keep car idling , it will attempt a start and shut back down

As I said before, wire it back in and try it, if it works without any setting adjustment then good for u, but if u get stuck, I'm in swindon ,in wiltshire, bout an hour from cardiff, so if u fancy a trip down, i'll plug my laptop in and adjust it for u

[wood_patrick]

Hi,

Yep thats where the IG- connector is on the 3VZ-FE if thats what you mean? And yes on the 3S-GE loom if I remember correctly.

I know where the rpm sensor wire is from the ECU wire but if it was plugged into the IG connector previously and I plugged it into the rpm (or vice versa) that would cause problems wouldnt it? So I am better sticking to the ignitor and would the alarm freak if it thought the engine was being revved? At the same time when the 3S-GE was in the car and I started it first thing the cold start/choke would kick in and push the readings up either way anyway so assuming there is some tolerence?

[wood_patrick]

Ok. Will double check wires before I do but will let you know how I get on and I get to Bristol once a week with work so may well take you up on that offer. :icon_mrgreen: Will give me an excuse to leave the work car at home and stretch its legs once legal on 1st May onwards.

Really apprecaite your help! :-)


The alarm once it has started the car up has to keep it idling, that's why it needs the correct pulse signal as it feeds it back to the car, as your imobilisor is still enabled while the car is remote started, if have wrong number of pulses set the remote starter won't be able to keep car idling , it will attempt a start and shut back down

As I said before, wire it back in and try it, if it works without any setting adjustment then good for u, but if u get stuck, I'm in swindon ,in wiltshire, bout an hour from cardiff, so if u fancy a trip down, i'll plug my laptop in and adjust it for u

[mrT]

If the wire is the same then wire it to the ig- wire, the signal it would get from rpm wire is usually the same, and is only 0.5v ac and alternates between 0.5v and 0v, and it is ac, not dc when u check with a meter. If it was idling a bit high when u used to start it on the 3sge then it means it was set up like that. Usually the procedure is to warm up the car to when its on normal temp then program the remote starter to learn the tach signal, once done, when u remote start it should only rev high for few seconds then idle at normal temp,
The alarms are pretty robust especially the early range that u have , as long is its not wired up wrong they rarely fail, the remote starter is a fussy barsteward and if it doesn't see the signal it is looking for it just does nothing, so if u did wire it wrong , it will just refuse to work that's all,
I don't mind helping at all mate, after all I may be needibg some help when I do my v6 swap soon lol

[wood_patrick]

So (excuse my stupidity at this point) if the IG- connector and the rpm pulse are both AC 0v-0.5v how do I check? I was planning on earthing the neg on the MM and sticking the positive in the IG- connector but the car cant be earth and switching positive at the same time can it? And yes, did used to idle high a short while then drop after a few short mins.

Actually, that may have been a stupid comment... Would I be right in thinking that with AC the earth stays the same and the live flutuates between positive and negative? I did think that AC meant that polarity switched back and forth but in heindsight..... :-\

[mrT]

Do the same to test either, connect negative to earth/chassis and positive to wire in question, engine running while u check and you should see the voltage, 0.5v ac and should alternate
Basically for simplar explanation, think of how the distributor works, it creates a spark every time the rotor arm passes a point on the dizzy cap, well that's when u get a pulse. Same thing with the ig or rev signal , that's all the remote starter looks for ,

[wood_patrick]

Ok. Did just revise my last post as my previous understanding of AC/DC (Besides the band) was that polarity switched which always confused me a little... Anyway, get it now. Finally! This has proved to be a very educational evening.

Will update tomorrow and just about to upload a video of it running on the drive with the exhuast welded up. :-D

[wood_patrick]

Welded up a few little holes in the exhuast, but not fully sealed the join between the front and rear sections yet until double check but sounds a bit better imho... :-)

Will try get a better quality video & sound with a tidy camcorder next time.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e1m8vXnEIs

[wood_patrick]

Right then. Had a play yesterday evening with the car and wiring and starting to make sense... I think....

Got out the Multi-Meter and did a circuit test on the IG connector from the diagnostic port. Didnt show as an AC current but as a DC and at 12 volts. Traced the wire back to pin 12 on the 12 pin connector going into the intellistart unit which I picked up a wiring diagram for showing its for the RPM counter.

Havent had the guts to try connecting it up yet though just in case.

Is the IG- connector on the 3VZ-FE the same as the IG- connector on the 3S-GE engine? i.e. voltage? Or is there a setting within the intellistart unit to set the input voltage? Scared if I plug it in that something is gonna go pop, bang or puff or worse and I dont have a fire extinguisher! :-|

Also, think the remote central locking is due to me playing with the settings from the little fob. :-( Read through a manual and me pressing lots of buttons and making lots of beeps with the engine running in heindsight wasnt a good idea. :-(

Also, all being well in for MOT next Friday! :-D Whoop Whoop! Really cant wait to have a proper road test!

[mrT]

to be honest mate, I havent worked on a camry yet so can't say for sure wether the IG- connecter on the camry is the same as the 3sge, but like I said before if you have just confirmed that particular wire in question is indeed for the rpm signal, then I would connect it to the rpm wire either on the ecu or behind the clocks, the rpm wire carries a very low current , you wont cook anything with that.
once you connected to the rpm signal, try the remote start procedure and see if it works out, I hope it does but if it behaves funny then it means the alarm needs to be programmed,
my offer still stands, If you are passing by Swindon, pop round and I will program it for you, shouldnt take more than 20 minutes to do providing the alarm brain is easy to get to..

[wood_patrick]

Ok so rather than risking it on the IG- connector rpm signal from ecu is best bet then (ECU easier to get to and T it) There was nothing coming out of the cable (that runs to pin 12 rpm sensor) in any state so no risk of fried ecu for brekky.... :-o

I did manage to get into the programming (I think) from the companion remote when I had problems with it before (Was a loose wire which was fixed) and ended up with beeps galore and in end just turned off car and stopped. However, since then (Didnt realise till now what the beeps potentially meant) the remote central lock doesnt work which I *assumed* to be a wire.

With that in mind is it possible to reprogram from the companion? (Dont have the master) And also Ive downloaded the cliffnet software, but any ideas on where I can get a cliffnet cable or a wiring diagram for the dataport from? Plenty of serial leads but dont know pin layout as yet....

Will take you up on the offer either way even if just for you to to check it and take you for a spin. :-) Lol. Just trying to get to grips for future reference as well really.

Will be trying to ECU rpm signal either later or tomorrow too, so will keep you updated! :-D

[mrT]

The alarm can only be programmed with master control, but is bit of a pain in Arse to do it that way, lot quicker and easier with software,
As for the data cable, that is a 9pin serial connection and won't work with usb, adapters don't work either. I may have a spare cable if u wish to buy it. And installer software too, will have to find it first lol ,
What u did when pressing buttons on the Companion remote was possibly either disabled a sensor or put alarm in valet mode, can't do any damage with companion remote as when u turn car of it resets alarm back to normal settings.
The rpm wire can be measured as I said before.
Set meter to AC , and 20v then connect black probe to chassis and red probe to rpm wire, with engine running read the meter and should be a voltage that kind of moves from 0v to 5v ac , that will confirm the wire, otherwise u could extend the wire to behind the clocks, and connect to the rpm wire there, to work out which connection it is behind clocks turn clocks over and look at connection behind the rev counter. There should be 3 or 4 screws holding it in place, and next to one screws will be marked IG- , that's your connection point

[wood_patrick]

Ok. So changes made with companion arent stored meaning my central locking fault is a wiring/connection fault somewhere.... bugger. lol.

One thing I did come across before was a little switch but didnt know what it did and stuffed it back down side of centre console but think it was a plainview switch? Think its part of the clifford alarm but not sure how/if its of any benefit? Just realised again from googling...

Didnt get to do anything tonight but be playing tomorrow and let you know how I get on. :-) Gonna be going into output from ECU as easier access rather than dash, although may change if raining. Lol.

Thanks again, much appreciated!

[mrT]

Reasoning behind central locking hmmm, you wouldn't have had any related wires in engine bay, so can't see that causing it, however. Does your stereo work, and electric wing mirrors work? If not then its a 10amp or 15amp fuse. This usually in the cabin, and not engine jukebox,
Does the central locking work when u use a key in drivers door, or press the button on the door, if so then is not a fuse , more like a wire issue

[wood_patrick]

Well it stopped when I had problems with it before. Basically I took it for MOT and it needed some welding and he offered to do it for about £10 extra on retest, so said yes. HAd it back MOT'd and alarm was tripping, car being weird and all sorts. Finally track it down to a trapped wire under the driver seat where they had been welding and then trapped the wire under the seat when put it back in. The wiring for the alarm was really bad (I mean really bad) so taped up all (yes were lots) of bare connections and tried to tidy it up. Ever since I had that problem, remote door lock not worked. It doesnt do the central locking if I use the key, but the central lock button on the drivers side door does both from inside the car (Think only when running, but not 100%)Everything else electric works fine though.

So.... If not alarm doing it then back to a dodgy wire somewhere. Have dug up a few manual on the alarm and intellistart so will have an idea with which wire I need to trace but dont think I have one specific to the Concept 500 thats in there.

Anyways, will be having a play later on and will let you know how I get on with the RPM sensor for the intellistart. :-)

[wood_patrick]

Right then. We have lift off!

Connected up the rpm sensor to the rpm cable from the ecu (at the fusebox) and the other wire that we disconnected from the boot light (picked the 12v when opened) and lo & behold it worked! :icon_mrgreen:

I did a few checks and the RPM cable is the same as the IG- connector. Both showed as 12v on my multi-meter so either not 0 to 5v AC or my MM is crap... Probably the latter. Lol.

Was just a temp bodge to see if it worked with crappy CAT5 cable, so gonna pick up some tidy wire tomorrow and do it properly.

It did keep running (idles low as reduced it the other day to a low burble...) but the only potential problem I have is that when I start it remotely, the starter keeps going for about half second longer than before so guessing that the RPM signal isnt picked up right causing it to over-start it. Will prob take you up on the offer to repgrogram within next few weeks if possible p5ycho . :-)

Other than that seems ok. Window close, siren, start/stop all 100%. :-)

Big thanks for the help!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MwfsEF9NEI

[wood_patrick]

Thought I would post a message to show my first attempt at doing a sill. :-)

Started off poking it with a scresdriver last weekend, then something bigger to match the holes... :-( In the end went at it with a grinder, cut out all the dodgy stuff so could start again. Gave it a quick spray with some primer to protect it till I had chance (hence funny red colour) and then cracked on building the outer sill with a door skin from a Saxo (another project) and imho not bad for a first attempt. Well, I think so anyway. :thumbsup:

From top to bottom - Cut out old outer sill (did also take out inner after), remnant of outer sill, saxo aircon :blabla:, half finished product. 2 small holes, and still got to do inner sill and a little hole at top then filler, sand and prime ready for MOT. :smile:

1872

[cdwood2010]

About time you did some work on the damn car! :blabla:

Regarding the starter run on, it might be the CAT5 thats throwing it (it's not made for a great deal of voltage / ampage) so try it with some decent loom wire close to the weight of the original.

Having said that i made a lovely washing line from CAT5....

Anyhoo, welding looks ok, just make sure its solid and will stand up to some abuse / MOT inspection etc.

And i want seperate lawyers.

Chris :eusa_pray:

[Torero]

Regarding the starter run on, it might be the CAT5 thats throwing it (it's not made for a great deal of voltage / ampage) so try it with some decent loom wire close to the weight of the original.
I agree Chris, ethernet passes just a little more voltage than telephone/alarm cable you are looking at 10Mb to 100Mb ethernet takes 2.2v to 3.15v and Gigabit would be close to 4v. So if you are looking at 5v or 12V you are falling short.

@Pat - Do you still want the 9 pin serial cable? I may be able to pickup one from work and drop it down next week, I just need you to PM me the full spec. :thumbsup:

Also, I know you fixed the alarm but did you get the c/l working as well? This may help:

These are the wires you will need and their locations:-

Hazards :- To Green/Black and Green/Yellow wire in main harness.

Door switches - Red/White wire in multiplug at O/S/F kickpanel. Common switched negative.
Boot/tailgate switch - At lamp position.
Bonnet Switch - Fit switch.

Central Locking :-
Negative central locking
Lock - Thin Black wire in O/S/F door harness.
Unlock - Thin Black/Yellow wire in O/S/F door harness

Window Closure: -
Positive Up
O/S/F - Red at motor in O/S/F door
N/S/F- Red/Blue in door loom to O/S/F kickpanel

I got this from http://www.mr2oc.co.uk/know-your-2/mk2/interior/25-interior/268-info-remote-central-locking-connection-info.html

[mrT]

excellent, more than half the problem sorted, at least we got your remote start working to a degree, it is probably just setting the correct rpm level now to get it to crank correctly,
also could bethe length of cranking time that was programmed into the alarm when it was wired to car with the 3sge in,
some engines take longer to crank than others, so it could be either adjustment may sort the issue.. but as you Bro says, might be worth finding the correct gauge wire to use instead of the cat5 and it may just be that..

Right then. We have lift off!

Connected up the rpm sensor to the rpm cable from the ecu (at the fusebox) and the other wire that we disconnected from the boot light (picked the 12v when opened) and lo & behold it worked! :icon_mrgreen:

I did a few checks and the RPM cable is the same as the IG- connector. Both showed as 12v on my multi-meter so either not 0 to 5v AC or my MM is crap... Probably the latter. Lol.

Was just a temp bodge to see if it worked with crappy CAT5 cable, so gonna pick up some tidy wire tomorrow and do it properly.

It did keep running (idles low as reduced it the other day to a low burble...) but the only potential problem I have is that when I start it remotely, the starter keeps going for about half second longer than before so guessing that the RPM signal isnt picked up right causing it to over-start it. Will prob take you up on the offer to repgrogram within next few weeks if possible p5ycho . :-)

Other than that seems ok. Window close, siren, start/stop all 100%. :-)

Big thanks for the help!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MwfsEF9NEI

[wood_patrick]

Didnt think about the CAT5 causing issues... :-\ Saying that I did double it up (used a pair) but dont know how much power it actually shoves down it exactly (Volts/Amps)

The car was warm aswell, so not sure if starting easier cos of that but you can hear it overun the starter by miles so need to do something with it.

@Chris - Yup, will make sure solid but hoping if it looks respectable he wont be too harsh. :-)
@Torero - That would be verymuch appreciated if you can get your hands on one :-) Beers already chilling... ;-)
@p5ycho - Big thanks for the help and for any dumb questions. Lol. Still aiming to get down to you next month at some point either just for a spin, or to tweak alarm (Or fix it if I delete everything without a backup.... Lol.)

With the central locking, it still only works at the door panel button. Key only locks drivers door, and remote lock/unlock doesnt lock or unlock in any state. Thanks for wiring details Torero and will be playing with it over bank holiday weekend. Main thing is finishing welding for MOT Saturday (Gotta book in today) then optimistically hoping it will pass first time. :-)

Pat Out.

[Torero]

Pat, I have managed to get a cable - 9 pin Serial Male to RS232 Female. Is this OK, I can bring it down with me next week, if not you can always use the one P5ycho has offered.

Also, are you doing any work on the rear arches, these tend to rot as well as the sills?

See you soon buddy :thumbsup:

John.

[wood_patrick]

Hi John,

Anything is greatly appreciated! :-) So Yes. Lol. Question though, when you say 9pin to RS232 is that with the connector to plug straight into the alarm? I dont have the serial adapter already installed which they do on some cars and stuff under the dash etc, so need to plug it into the little connector thing directly into the alarm... :-\

Rear arches, I feckin hope not! Lol. Sills are testing my, well cant call them skills.... erm.... attempts. Lol. Seem ok so probably not at the moment but now youve said it gonna go scrutinise. :-)

Let me know which day best for you. Only just clicked about the days off so will be under the car (not working, just like to lay there and look at the engine...:-D ) or playing with a Saxo. :-S

Note to self - Extra beer for John. ;-)

Patrick.

[wood_patrick]

Darn you clifford alarm....

Well not sure if this is a problem or not. Not long before the conversion started I left the MR2 stood for a while and the battery went flat and eventually the alarm. In the end the siren started making a clicking/ticking noise so disconneted it and it eventually stopped after the battery inside went flat. Hadnt bothered connecting it back up until I was playing with it properly the other day at which point I plugged it in and it was all ok. Got home from work to hear it ticking away again.... :eusa_wall:

It wasnt doing it yesterday after I played or for an hour after or this morning when I left for work. The car still has charge to start so should be enough power in battery for the alarm but is this likely to be a fault with the alarm or the siren or because its charging back up again or the battery pack is packed in. When it did it before when it went flat it was all working until I left it discharge completely.

[Torero]

Question though, when you say 9pin to RS232 is that with the connector to plug straight into the alarm? I dont have the serial adapter already installed which they do on some cars and stuff under the dash etc, so need to plug it into the little connector thing directly into the alarm.

The RS232 will interface with your laptop and then we will need to interface it with the alarm output. Can you upload a pic of what the connector looks like and I will try and see what I can do. I don't think we can butcher these without the right tools, Pat.


Rear arches, I feckin hope not! Lol. I only asked buddy because yesterday I pulled what must be a 3" piece of tin worm off my rear o/s arch, always thought it was just surface but I think it will need a welded piece. I think I have caught it in the nick of time as it has only affected the lip and not the outside face so if I get them treated properly and then rolled I should get away with minimal work. Always a pisser though especially as I also need to pull the dent.


Note to self - Extra beer for John. ;-)
:beer: me like.

[wood_patrick]

Will go get a picture in a min. Think its a little 4 pin thing but will double check...

Making me panic about these sills now.... :-o Lol. Think they are ok and no advisories from last year and no surface rust I can see but will have a good scout. Better to do it now than after. Still optimistic about 1st Time Pass! :-D

[cdwood2010]

Pat

I'm not sure it will pass first time, but as I keep telling you, better to suck it and see and go from there.

Also consider the drive to the MOT station a maiden voyage and DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SET ANY LAP TIMES!!!!

:)

Chris

[snowtigger]

yes cruise to the mot not burn rubber at the first traffic light grand prix, cops get a bit peeved even though youve pre booked an mot your not supposed to go mental till after you have the mot passed.

[wood_patrick]

What I heard;

............will pass first time..........

.......drive to MOT..... SET....LAP TIMES!!!......

:eusa_dance:

On a serious note, yes I will be carefull. The guy Im racing to the MOT station only drives a scoob. :blabla:

And theres hardly any traffic lights in Wales, just sheep crossings.... ;-)



Pat

I'm not sure it will pass first time, but as I keep telling you, better to suck it and see and go from there.

Also consider the drive to the MOT station a maiden voyage and DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SET ANY LAP TIMES!!!!

:)

Chris


yes cruise to the mot not burn rubber at the first traffic light grand prix, cops get a bit peeved even though youve pre booked an mot your not supposed to go mental till after you have the mot passed.

[ColleyV8]

Good luck, don't forget the packet of hobnobs on the passenger seat.

[wood_patrick]

I wont! :icon_mrgreen: If I crash it, Im never coming on here again, and Im gonna buy another one and just never tell big bro and hope he never notices.....:eusa_pray:


MOT - Gutted! They are closed on Saturday... :'( Booking in for Tuesday 26th as long as can get day off work. :-D

[wood_patrick]

Right then MOT confirmed for Tuesday. Wish me luck. :icon_biggrin:

Alarm problems were doing my head in so decided to rip the seat out and have a better look (All under drivers seat). Have nosed at it before but never really bothered to get to grips with it as it worked. Only thing I did do a few years ago was tape up all the bare connections... I do have a certificate for it, but the quality (even by my standards) of the wiring was/is atrocious.

Anyway, had a problem with the siren which was making clicking/tapping noise. It started a while back not long before the conversion but I had left the battery go flat and assumed it was due to that so just unplugged it. When I started it the other day, I plugged it in just before and no noise so thought it should be fine. Several hours later it was clicking again so I unplugged it. I assumed it was the battery that was going flat so decided to strip it. Took it apart and the battery (7.2v pack) was at 1.5v. I disconnected it and charged it up with a trickle charger for a while, left it stand for a bit then checked voltage which was just under 8v. Thought that maybe that was what it needed then connected it back up to the siren which (even on the kitchen table) started clicking and making weird noises again and after looking closer it looks like one of the resistors has kinda split open so need a new siren now. :icon_mad:

Anywho, as the alarm is badly wired in decided to re-do it from scratch as theres a bad connection somewhere as its doesnt activate central locking anymore and used to go off for no reason at times. On the plus, found the tacho wire (Green, with red stripe and silver bits) I think? (Will check though) which runs straight past the alarm so will make for easy re-wiring. :icon_mrgreen:


@ P5YCHO - Any sirens for sale? :eusa_pray: With the lead you mentioned, does it connect into the port shown in the pic? Or is it the one for cars that have the installed serial port somewhere? And if you've managed to dig it out let me know how much and can sort some money. :icon_surprised:

@TORERO - Think theres a special duby ferkin thats needed to connect to the alarm via serial port, so hoping p5ycho can help source one. Not sure what will and wont need until then.

Gonna check the forums and if not already covered will do a how to guide from start to finish as I redo it for future use by peeps. :nerd:

1875

[mrT]

The alarm data cable indeed plugs into that connection, nd other end has a 9 pin serial connector on it.
I'm clearing garage and putting stuff on ebay, the moment I lay hands on it I will drop u a pm,
As for the siren, I haven't a spare but u should be able to get one of eBay.
However regarding the clicking , the alarm siren is a battery backup type,
If u can still read the colours of it. Replace it with the same type, as for the battery, it won't charge,as its dead , pop to maplins and get 2 rechargeable telephone batteries, they will do the trick

[Fizzy]

I've got the clifford concept 300 I took out of my mr2 - has the siren etc too. Would it be any use for parts? It was working before it was removed.

[mrT]

As long as it was working on removal it can be refitted. No matter what BS some installer gives u, they normally prefer to have a brand new loom as it makes if easier to install, but u can only get those if u are a Clifford dealer, personally I just rebuild the loom nd wire it up, Sunday I spent the day wiring up a Clifford 650, with backjax , proximity, remote start, remote Windows, and all the trimmings to the wifes car, he alarm in question I had removed from my old car after it had been written off.
The 300 is compatible with your remote start Pat, but will need to be programmed to work it, should you decide to replace your old alarm, and if you feel your old alarm is fine but was just wired in by a monkey. Then I would tidy up all the wiring, shorten the wires that are too long, and solder any tat are loose.
People alwAys complain about Clifford alarms, I always here complaints that they give false alarms and generally are a pain, but its all down to how well it has been installed. My alarm was in my car for 7 years and not once did it give e trouble.

[wood_patrick]

@P5ycho - Well I think a resistor on the PCB is cooked as the sheath has split open on it. When it was flat it was fine but as soon as it builds up some charge it starts clicking, even when engine is running so assuming its not the battery. Might get someone to look at it and if a cheap fix will keep as a spare. If you can lay your hands on a cable that would be fab and will come down and pick it up within the next couple of weeks? If you could help with some reprogramming would be appreciated too. :icon_mrgreen: Gonna try locate the problem with the door lock in the meantime.

@Fizzy - That sounds pucker. :icon_biggrin: I still need to come see you for the subs too havent forgotten. Will get there within next couple of weeks too. Lol. Do you want something for it? Can PM me to discuss if you want?

Thanks Guys!!!

Pat.

[Goldy]

Pat,

If you want me to have a look at the PCB for you, send me a photo of the damage and i'll let you know if I can fix it. No charge :-)

[wood_patrick]

Hi Goldy.

Thanks for the offer! :-) If you could that would be great. At the moment its not working, so if you can fix it great, if not then just hurl it. Lol.

The resistor/capicitor is below. Not sure what it is, but it shows no resistance and no charge when checked with a multi-meter so aint got a clue what it is. :icon_confused: Maybe its supposed to be like that but theres something wrong with it just dont know what. It was okay when I plugged it back in, but after it built up some charge was just making weird noises even after removed from car. It may be the battery that isnt holding enough power, but when I started that car back up (which I think should have then started putting power back to it, unless always on charge) it carried on making noises...

There are a couple of oxidised connections, but none that are touching or bridging from what I can see...

Also, a high-res image of the PCB - HERE (http://www.ddraiggochwelshcobs.co.uk/Ebay_Auctions/PCB.jpg)

If you're able to have a look, PM me an address and will send on Tuesday. :icon_biggrin:

1878

[mrT]

That looks more like a coil to me, a register would have had coloured bands round it. Looks more like a regulating or smoothing coil and the plastic coating has probably split due to it getting hot

[Phil5019]

Hi, Where did you get your maf adapter and front poly mount from m8?

Thanks

[cdwood2010]

Hi, Where did you get your maf adapter and front poly mount from m8?

hello

MAF adapter was from fleabay. I had to rummage around to find one close enough with the right aperture and a bolt pattern that was close enough, and even then we had to grind it a bit. Think it was about £10.

Polybush came from another TB member. I will find out from him as I actually need another set.

Chris

[mrT]

I can polyfill mounts. Will offer the service but need to get some mounts 1st. I used to polyfill mounts on Honda Integra's in the past. I can advise anyone wishing to attempt the task, will warn u though. It is rather messy lol

[cdwood2010]

I can polyfill mounts. Will offer the service but need to get some mounts 1st. I used to polyfill mounts on Honda Integra's in the past. I can advise anyone wishing to attempt the task, will warn u though. It is rather messy lol

I have one front mount here ready, and I think I still have the rubber bobbin rolling about somewhere!

let me know if you can make me one or fess up on the dark art and I might even have a go myself!

Chris

[mrT]

Haha, will have to do a write up shortly. Once I rip the 3sge out will dos step by step guide lol

[Garbe]

Chris, the lads used to get the poly stuff from RS components for about £12. I had somebut gave its to a fellow TB'er. Messy stuff, but workable.

[Paul Woods]

I always found the shore rating on the RS components stuff too hard for mounts myself.

[wood_patrick]

@p5ycho - Well I was close.... ;-) Lol. Also, there are 4 wires going to the siren from the alarm (Black, Red, Green & Yellow) Im assuming black and red and power? are the other two just for siren activation or is it more complex? Assuming its supervised when armed?

@ Goldy - Dunno if it helps, but it only seems to do it when the internal battery has been charged up, so guessing its on that circuit somewhere? Although I am just stabbing in the dark..... :-P

[wood_patrick]

Yay! Ive just finished my first sill and thought I would share as Im pretty chuffed for a first attempt! :icon_biggrin: If you get close you can see its not perfect, but it will do the job nicely.

Did take me a long time to do the metalwork, but just welded, grinded, welded, grinded, until I got it right. Dreading seeing my electric bill though.... :icon_confused:

Did also do a patch on the other sill but was only small thankfully.

All jobs done now ready for MOT on Tuesday. :icon_biggrin: Hoping hes not gonna laugh at my welding and if I can master the Jedi mind trick am still confident at it passing first time.....:eusa_pray:

Inner Sill
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/175.jpg

Primed
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/176.jpg

Top Coat
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/177.jpg

[cdwood2010]

Awesome.

Now get up here and do mine!

Chris

[mrT]

I always found the shore rating on the RS components stuff too hard for mounts myself.

yep ypu can use the 2 part liquid poly eurathane, but it is the messy way of doing it,
the not so messy way of filling engine mounts is to,
mount has to be removed from car, wash it with soapy water to remove oil rease dirt etc,
dry thoroughly , then use some card or similar stuff to seal one side of the mount, then fill it will silicone window sealant, or if you can get it, windscreen sealant (tigerseal) as its known in the body shops,
fill the mount inbetween the gaps and then use a peice of card to even out the top of the mount, once dry use a stanly to shave off excess sealant ,

[cdwood2010]

Actually might give that a try!

Chris

[cdwood2010]

Hi all

Pat just texted - Mot passed 1st time.

God we will be hearing about his welding for weeks now.

Now so long as he gets it home without twatting it....

:)

Chris

[snowtigger]

Wahoo fantastic news, welding whos done that?

[cdwood2010]

Wahoo fantastic news, welding whos done that?

Pat did!

Scroll back up for pics!

Chris.

[snowtigger]

sorry my sense of humour it was a retoricle answer mate i.e whos done the welding, and we will never hear the end of it.

[wood_patrick]

Boo Frikin Yah! :icon_mrgreen:

Well I was hoping it would pass first time, but was kinda expecting it to fail on something silly.

But, lo and behold passed first time! :icon_biggrin:

Did have 2 advisories though. NSF drop link cover is split (expected that) and bracket that holds front right brake pipe by the wheel was corroded although he cleaned it and said it was fine and smothered it in grease.

Other than that all good. He didnt even criticise the sills (was tempted to point them out to him in case he didnt notice, but decided probably not best...)

One thing he did notice is that I hadnt (Well we being me & bro, blame him too... :-P) tightened up the near side rear shock/spring. He shook the wheel and it wobbled like hell I nearly had a panic attack! Tightened it up though and he was happy.

Anywho, big ups for everyones help and input in getting through the final stage!

Just some cosmetics, alarm and dashboard wiring to tidy up (Been meaning to do it for a couple of years as was like that pre-engine upgrade...) mini filters on cam breather pipes and some other small finicky things.

Anyways, coming back to the car. I was chuffed just at the feel of the V6 shaking the car like a giant rampant rabbit but to drive... O....M.....G..... Doesnt matter what gear Im in, what hill Im on or how fast Im going IT JUST GOES!!!!!!

No tax till 1st May though so couple of days of waiting patiently but just want to get back up to Big Bro asap for him to have a go!

Couple of pics from MOT today....

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/193.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/194.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/195.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/196.jpg

[wood_patrick]

Yep twas little me that did the welding. :-) I can write a huge document for you if you want? ;-)

Not perfect but did what I needed it to. Lol. I was a little dubious when he was gonna jack the car up at the jack points, and asked him not to do it there but under the crossmember instead so he did.

Anyways all chilled and happy now although eager to go for a little run when taxed. Think Im gonna need wider rear tyres too as at the moment they are 235/45/17 and just shred as I accelerate...

Will have a look through the TB garage, but at the moment ive got front 215/40/17 and rear 235/45/17. Rears are 2 profiles wider as general opinion was works well to balance weight, and the rears are a little higher profile (45 rear as opposed to 40 front) which was a little experiment to see if they dug in better and to be honest it works really well. Had them new for a trackday last year and back end really digs in wheras the 40 profiles on the rear tended to spin out easier...

Anyways, any thoughts or input on tyre setups would be welcomed. Wont change them for a while, but forward thinking and all. :-)

[snowtigger]

my rears are 9.5 inch wide and 235/40/17 but the tyre calc tool said i should go for 245 or 255 or even 265 by 30 on the rear and 205/35 on the front, normaly the mk2 is staggered 17teens front and 18 rears seems the bigger the rim the wider the tyre you can go up to 10inch wide on 18 defoe a abflug order then.


all the above is hours spent going through rim suppliers asking about split rims and custom rims in different fitments and offsets and stud patterns, if you want bigger you will need lower ofset, standard rims are much easier to find.

[wood_patrick]

Mmmmmm.... Hadnt thought about larger rims and lower profiles on rear till now.

The last ones I had on the rear were 40's but the speedo was out by 5-10mph depending on speed (checked against a few satnavs) but 45's make it almost perfect.

So should the difference between front and back be 2, 3, 4 or 5 profile widths larger if on same size rims? I know Im never gonna get it to handle like a front engine car but corners are a nightmare once it starts to go. Only way I ever control it is by not braking and just easing off till back in control then braking.

Also, you've got 5 profile diff between front and rear also?

[snowtigger]

Yes some one said I should have 30 or 35 front and 40 or 45 rears so nose down, there's a calc if you google for it to work out rims and tyre profiles so the speedo can read ne'er enough bob on my mk1 is spot on same as the sat nav were as my avensis is about 5 mph out so it reads 80 at 75.

[wood_patrick]

Well with a 5 difference mine has a little big of an angle but dunno if anymore would look any good imho... Then again, Ive got tacky stickers and stripes all over mine so maybe not the best person to state opinions... Lol.

Also, with the Avensis, if its the new one I think you can go into the onboard computer and reset the speedo as it guesses tyre wear (and therefore speedo difference) and compensates a little. If you've just had new tyres you need to reset it. :icon_biggrin: Nearly picked one (2.2 180 D4D) as a company car but went for the Civic 2.2 Ex CDTi instead. Work gave about 25% more for over 2 litre so made some money off it. Swapped jobs though, and ended up with an Insignia (*bleargh*) bog standard 130 now...:puke:

[snowtigger]

Booo insignia you may as well call it the up yours car as most people feel shafted after driving one.

I like a nose down bum in the air stance but the sleeping police men dont like the mk1 , round here there known as mini elephant hills as any lowered car tends to get stuck trying to go over them, plus most of my mates garage work is replacing shocks and damaged springs and most of the suspension bushes.

[wood_patrick]

Lol. Yep you can say that again! But saying that whenever I get a courtesy car when mine goes in the garage I end up with something like a fiat punto or the like, and welcome the Insignia back with open arms.... Lol.

Well Im lucky with the sleeping police, and cant think of any within about 10 miles.... Maybe 8.... :-P Then again, the roads down here are probably just as bad. Lol.

[wood_patrick]

Well was 1st May today, and car was all legal and legit so went out to play proper today. :hyper:

What a hoot, went for MOT the other day and as no MOT on way there, then no Tax still at the time was fairly gentle on it as didnt want to attract too much attention...

Today though, gave it a bit more of a tickle. :cool: I think my car just grew another pair (or few pairs) of balls and Im gonna change my gearnob to a W for whatever gear you want as it just dont care. Lol. Thankfully, by the time I got to town Id realised that the throttle is variable and to use it modestly unless I want to be digging my number plate out of someones bumper.

Took a few people for a spin, most of which have said they will never go in it again though. :icon_lol: Girlfriend said she had a cross between seasickness and whiplash, and I think thats the first time I ever heard the ex wife scream, cry then ask if she can drive :icon_wink:

Only thing I never really really thought about was fuel... Until today. Lol. 75 miles and £40 worse off I'm having second thoughts about using it to commute to the office for a 200 mile round trip.

Anyways, all in all goes like a dream. Chris cant believe its still running, and I cant believe its still the right way up! :eusa_dance:

Trying to get a decent camera/camcorder to get a tidy video of it running and a drive by and will update soon! :icon_biggrin:

[cdwood2010]

Updated the thread on PistonHeads. Couple of reasons this was important....

PistonHeads Swap Thread (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=47&t=907998&i=999999&nmt=1991%20Toyota%20MR2%20Mk2%20V6%203VZ-FE%20Upgrade%20%28hopefully%29)


Didn’t want the people who were following the thread to think we had not completed
Wanted to point yet more people to TwoBrutal (big up the TB posse!)


I really hope that our (apparently) successful build will inspire other MR2 owners and alike to join our ranks and have a go themselves.

Pat an I have had such fun doing his car, but as I am sure we have pointed out more than once, we would have ended up on the hard shoulder (metaphorically speaking) a long way back without all the gentle help, advice, piss-taking and general pointing and laughing that has both guided us and encouraged us all along.

As soon as I get that canoe finished we are foot on the gas for swap #2, and if it goes half as well as Pat’s swap, we will be at JAE in two scrap MR2 V6’s!

Aw yeah!

Chris.

[wood_patrick]

Right then peeps. Sorted most of the niggly jobs on the beast, but still consuming more petrol than others on here seem to be....

I did the AFM Mod (http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?9052-free-power-upgrades-on-the-3vzfe) and turned it 7 clicks clockwise to tension the spring. The flap was VERY floppy beforehand though and 7 clicks made it so that I could actually feel resistance from the sping as before the mod it was like poking a curtain in the house (Best comparison I can think of right now) if that makes sense? Very little resistance and couldnt really feel it fighting with me.

Before the MOD vs after the mod:-

-------Pre-AFM Mod----------------------Post AFM Mod
Money-----£35--------------------------------£20-------
Miles-------75----------------------------------70-------
Gallons---6.09--------------------------------3.48------
MPG-----12.32------------------------------20.125-----

Now its a lot better than it was, but still guzzling more fuel than I would like... I know everyones gonna tell me to rolling road it but Im just trying to get it a bit better and still some other stuff to do before I get it fine tuned. Im checking the timing tomorrow even though it seems fine just to be safe and eliminate that from the equation, and then am planning to go to 10 clicks and try again.

Before I did the AFM mod I could hear it burning off petrol in the exhuast and could literally smell the petrol it wasnt using. After the AFM mod at mid to high revs its more responsive and smoother but I can still hear it burning off fuel when decelerating albeit a lot lot less. Appreciate that there is always going to be some disused fuel but I wouldnt expect it to be at the level it is right now (After 7 clicks). Also, while we were doing the other MR2 V6 last week, I did have a look at the AFM on big bros engine and his without the mod was about the same resistance as mine is after 7 clicks...

So just after anyones input really or thoughts as to the AFM mod and economy. I know some people are happily reaching 35 mpg with the 1MZ but where should I be aiming for with mine (3VZ-FE)? Or is 20mpg on a relatively modest drive the "norm"? It is possible that I will discover tomorrow that the timing is out and that may help, but going by current power and performance (pre & post AFM mod and in comparison to each other) I dont *think* its out or if it is its very very little.

Finally, with the timing where should I be setting it for? General opinions vary as far as 17* and from what I understand the 3VZ-FE was detuned to 10* for various reasons but ultimately it costs bhp.

Tomorrow will probably see me setting timing at 17* then road testing then going another 2-3 click on AFM and checking for pinging and seeing what difference it makes on power and economy. :-)

[ColleyV8]

Can you use an AFM from another that you know the MPG is good on?

[Paul Woods]

I'll tell you now with almost certainty if you were only getting 12mpg before touching the AFM then you 100% have a problem somewhere, they return 20-25mpg as a bare minimum of mixed driving on a fully fit stock set up.

There is something wrong.

[cdwood2010]

Can you use an AFM from another that you know the MPG is good on?

Good idea!

Hoping a timing check and adjust along with another inspection of hoses etc will turn something up.

MOT emissions were right on the money so it might just be Pat that cant count or can't drive even.

He is a tad tasty on the throttle....

Chris.

[cdwood2010]

There is something wrong.

With Pat or his driving?

You sound liked mum!

:)

Chris.

[Paul Woods]

Not sure what you mean mate, but if a V6 gets 12mpg before doing anything there is definately something wrong, adjusting the AFM to mask the problem is just covering up the issue, so there is something fundamentally not right.

[cdwood2010]

Interesting to see what Pat turns up.

Either way were still having fun which is what it's all about in our clan.

Chris.

[snowtigger]

My money's on a dodgy afm meter best bet is nick/borrow big bros one and run round with that one.

Have a look at your vacuum pipes as well see if there plumbed correctly.

[cdwood2010]

My money's on a dodgy afm meter best bet is nick/borrow big bros one and run round with that one.

Have a look at your vacuum pipes as well see if there plumbed correctly.

Yep, good plan Mike.

But i need my AFM so i might have to buy another Cammy and put it on Pat's drive.

I need one for Build #3 soon anyway!

The vacum pipes i think are worth an inspection too, along with the airways. Pat was so giddy to get the car on the road and driving that he kinda skipped a lot of the sanity checks.

But look on the bright side - its keeping him out of trouble!

:freak3:

Chris.

[Jiff Lemon]

When you set the timing, you did pin the two terminals together didn't you? Happy to loan you my afm if you're really stuck.

[cdwood2010]

When you set the timing, you did pin the two terminals together didn't you? Happy to loan you my afm if you're really stuck.

Hi,

Nope, come to think of it not sure we did. I think we discussed and then forgot.

Just had a quick look but i cant find the link for that!

Help!

Chris.

[Jiff Lemon]

Its as simple as pinning E1 and TE1 together :)

[cdwood2010]

Its as simple as pinning E1 and TE1 together :)

Thanks Jiff!

Spoke to pat this morning and he has better memory than me, seemed to recall it, so hopefully somthing else to check and confirm / rule out / resolve!

Chris.

[ColleyV8]

You'll know if you haven't pinned the terminals, the timing mark jumps around 10 degrees, only stable when you do join them together.

[cdwood2010]

You'll know if you haven't pinned the terminals, the timing mark jumps around 10 degrees, only stable when you do join them together.

Thanks for your reply!

Yep, that rings a bell somewhat.

Waiting for an update on Pat now with his findings!

Chris.

[wood_patrick]

I really should get up earlier on the weekends.... Damn you COD4!!!!

Thanks for replies peeps!!! :-)

Anyways - TE1 & E1 ummm.... Not touched yet although did read before somewhere. Are they to be bridged constantly? Or just once to reset? (Gonna read up now) Also I never reset the ECU after AFM mod, Im assuming that it will adapt after a few miiles anyway? Although might reset now again anyway as theoretically cant hurt... I think.... :-o

Jiff Lemon - Might be handy if possible where you based?

Vacuum pipes - Will look at free power upgrades thread for ACIS mod and repiping directions

Appreciate there is something wrong to be getting 12mpg, but it pulls fine, starts perfect, idles lovely and sounds sweet as a nut. Been out this morning for a quick blast and giving it some proper beans and the AFM mod has made SERIOUS difference not in low revs or setting off but when accelerating from mid rev band and is definately pulling more in 3rd and 4th in comparison to pre AFM mod...... Plus the smell of petrol is a lot less although can still smell it a little.

Im still dubious as to the AFM and how flappy it should be... Before I did the mod I poked it with my finger almost like a quick jab and it opened fully and hit the stop point. Now, even though I havent ever played with an AFM from a V6 I dont know if thats the norm, but, basing the amount of air that was coming out of the exhuast when running, that amount of air wouldve been enough to push the flap to maximum waaaay to easily.

Paul W - What other suspects are there for economy/fuel issues like this? Appreciate I need to check timing and vacuum pipes but imho neither would cause such a poor MPG.

On the flip side, I am basing most decisions on the assumption that no one has ever tampered with anything on this engine before at any time (Although there are indications that its been in bits) both pre or post import from the Toyota motherland..... :-\

[ColleyV8]

Anyways - TE1 & E1 ummm.... Not touched yet although did read before somewhere. Are they to be bridged constantly? Or just once to reset? (Gonna read up now) Also I never reset the ECU after AFM mod, Im assuming that it will adapt after a few miiles anyway? Although might reset now again anyway as theoretically cant hurt... I think.... :-o

You need to constantly bridge the connections whilst adjusting the timing, it tells the car you are changing something, then when you remove the bridge, the car learns the new settings.

I have been told you bridge them whenever you are changing anything, not just timing.

[wood_patrick]

Ok. So might not yet have seen the full benefits of the AFM mod then? :-\

I forgot to pull the EFI fuse so will reset that and bridge the terminals whilst timing.

I did also read on another website that some people leave them bridged, which offered some benefit but not quite sure how to be honest. Im assuming it tells the car to keep adapting to new sensor inputs changes?

And so bridging TE1 & E1 is necessary to set the timing as otherwise it will jump by 10* and making accurate timing impossible. Surely then on this basis isnt it better to leave them bridged and have accurate timing at 10* (Or wherever its happiest) rather than it being between 10* & 20* without the pins bridged? Or am I just being blonde?

[Jiff Lemon]

You absolutely NEED to pin it before setting the timing - You're essentially telling the ECU "now listen here old boy, I'm about to set the timing". Your ECU is probably doing battle right now because the base timing is out and its trying to swing it back to where it thinks it should be.

AFM's are quite flappy - Again, thats by design. If they don't flap, you get other fabulously odd problems (Ratty's MK1 turbo wouldn't rev over 2k because his AFM wasn't so flappy!).

Oh and I'm in Milk and Beans, down the road from your bro... Not much use to you in wales!

[cdwood2010]

Hi Jiff!

Pat just texted me to say he's in Towyn, N Wales, a short sunday drive from Llanelli to test fuel consumption on JapScrap!

I guess he's doing ok or at 12mpg he would have run out of cash by now!

I'm sure he will update later!

Chris.

[wood_patrick]

Right then.

Yesterday saw me checking the timing on the beast which was out by about 1mm to 1.5mm - I finally got it spot on (very faffy and *very* small adustments needed on the dizzy) then double checked again once everything tightened up.

I pulled the efi fuse as I forgot to do that last time. And also (as per everyones recommendations and guidance - many thanks) bridged TE1 & E1 whilst timing and again once doubled checked.

With the AFM I decided best way was to inspect it while running (well idling on the drive) so popped off the cover so I could watch how the AFM was behaving. It was at 7 clicks which didnt seem to be the most economic/power balance and with the engine running could understand why. When revving it the flap was still bouncing about nearly to full swing and then almost acting like a pendulum and settling to match the revs. I appreciate that the initial response from the AFM when revving is to open up as necessary to monitor the demand but was still a little eratic. So I tried it 1 click at a time (so 8 clicks, 9, etc) until I got to 10 clicks. 10 clicks seemed to be where it was still flapping but more stable and less bouncing about (i.e. if I revved it from idling to a stable 4,000) so left it at that and glued the cover back on.

My MPG calculations on the last page were a little out as I worked out fuel at the wrong £per/litre but updated as below;


http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/06/41.jpg

As noted on the chart, the timing was between 11* to 12* during the first and second attempts so obviosuly plays a part in the MPG & Performance. The test drive today wasnt on motorways but was from Kidwelly, South Wales up through Aberystwyth, Machynlleth, Dolgellau across to Towyn and back home again with some detours. These roads are stereotypical welsh winding country roads constantly up and down through the gears, and although I drove tidy most (ok, maybe 3/4) of the way and utilising 5th as best I could the rest was letting rip. :-) I would expect to get a little bit better on motorways & long runs, but then again if I was that worried about economy Id have a diesel as a weekend car. :blabla:

With the AFM on 10 clicks the low end revs arent as spicey as without the AFM mod, but power between 2,000 and 5,000 rpm is more constant and feels more torquey than before especially at higher revs. I am going to try again at 9 clicks (1 click back) to see how it fares as that but ran out of sealent yesterday and didnt want to risk it getting wet so will try another day. Also at 10 no smell of petrol, and only petrol I can hear burning off in exhaust is when decelerating so seems normal.

However, all in all chuffed of where its at at the moment and once I get few more little things done (ACIS, vacuum pipes, redo AFM to plenum pipe as per powermod thread, etc, etc) then will RR it and get it fine tuned.

Another thing Ive noticed moreso today aswell is that the brakes arent *quite* up to the job imho. Mine has standard 258mm disks on the front (Rather than the 275mm) which may make a bit of difference? but am seriously thinking about upgrading them. I know that there is a thread on here somewhere about compatible/suggested upgrades which will be looking at later. Brakes seem ok when just general commuting, and semi-normal driving as the weight difference is negligible from the 3S-GE but when I was giving it some beans the momentum when accelerating adds more force again when weaving in and out the windy roads and brake fade was happening quicker. My pads are still at 3/4 and fluid wasnt changed that long ago and well bled with no air, but gonna service callipers change pads and fluid (with higher spec) and see how that fares. Would be a bit dubious doing a trackday without which is on the books for the near future as they barely coped with a day at bedford with the 3S-GE in. :icon_confused:

Anyways, overall going well and VROOM VROOM! :icon_mrgreen:

[ColleyV8]

Pat, don't get your MPG calculation, unless petrol is really expensive in wales att eh moment, here its 1.33 a litre, 6 per gallon, so 50 quid = 8.3 gallons, 211 miles = about 25 mpg?

As far as brakes go, the rev 2 really make a difference before you spend big on other brakes, also, pads make a huge difference more than anything.

As normal, be methodical in upgrading, brake fluid, brake lines, bigger disks, better pads, bigger calipers (normally in that order)

25 to the gallon on Welsh roads is what I would expect in my opinion though. The only other way is to brim the tank at a motorway service station, then 56 mph to the next one and do the same.

[Paul Woods]

Sorry but i have a real issue with the AFM "mod" , it is the tuning equivalent of taking a sledgehammer to your engine management/fuel system. Tuning needs to be done subtley within the maps for various load points/RPM, this blanket leaning of everything out by fooling the ECU with a false signal from the AFM for me is a very nasty thing to do, i hate it, it's the exact opposite of what anyone should be doing, people invest thousands in aftermarket ECUs for a very good reason.

We have seen the fire rings on the HG burnt out on an engine running this way, along with valve damage and all manner of problems. There is no consideration being given to wether the engine is in open or closed loop, what the timing is doing with an altered mixture etc

As before, a V6, properly installed and set up, should return a minimum of 20-25mpg with mixed driving, 15mpg is driving like a madman everywhere and we have seen 35mpg+ on lazy motorway runs, so if you aren't seeing these figures on a stock set up then there's something not right with the install.

As you can see i'm not a fan of this "mod" and never have been, i think it's a very amateur and dangerous thing to do. If you're going to keep this modification at least get the car onto a rolling road and have your AFRs monitored across all RPMs/loads.

[cdwood2010]

Paul,

Yes, I think Pat was trying to get it in the right ball park before taking it for an RR.

If we had spent a fortune on our cars then I think we would be working very differently, but as we are doing this on the low down, our approach has been not up spend money unless / until we have to.

It's fairly obvious that the car will need a sanity check at some point for a number of reasons, but I for one think Pat has done really well to get a fairly shagged car back from the dead!

Chris.

[Paul Woods]

I totally agree, it's just it may be returning to the dead a lot quicker with the AFM modified!

I'm all for budget mods and not spending a fortune, it's just this nasty AFM "tuning" i have an issue with.

I've said my bit.

[cdwood2010]

Totally appreciated too!

I have been nagging him to get it RR ever since I dumped it in his driveway!

Pat - Sort it!

:)

Chris.

[wood_patrick]

Pat, don't get your MPG calculation, unless petrol is really expensive in wales att eh moment, here its 1.33 a litre, 6 per gallon, so 50 quid = 8.3 gallons, 211 miles = about 25 mpg?

Well I based it on £1.36 per/litre which is £6.80 per gallon. I worked it out by dividing £50 by £1.36, which gives 36.76 litlres, dividing by 5 (to get gallons) = 7.35 then 211 miles divided by 7.35 gallons. Voila :-)

Yeah, planning to get some tidy bits and try that then will look at upgrading to rev 2 setup or bigger.... :-)

*REVISED*

£50 divided by £1.36 (per litre) = 36.76 litres. divided by 4.54 (As below) = 8.10 Gallons (Rounded) ==> 211 miles divided by 8.10 gallons = 26.05 MPG.

Sorry ColleyV8 - You were right. :-P

[cdwood2010]

Pat,

4.54 litres in a gallon as I recall....

Chris

[wood_patrick]

With the AFM mod too, appreciate its not the ideal choice, but as big bro points out its kinda the budget way but points noted and will be RR soon to fine tune.

In contrast though, the Camrys are designed to run richer than needed and with the setup they are generally being choked so when youre increasing airflow with a mahooosive air filter and imrpoving throughput without the naffy y pipe it does almost seem a logical way to do it. After watching how eratically the AFM moves about while running even at 7 clicks its not really altering the fuel to air ration its just increasing resolution and accuracy of the data in effect. With the standard setup it seemed designed to monitor lower levels of air and when youre increasing the air intake levels that seems to create an issue in itself imho as the AFM wasnt designed for that level or performance and flow.

That said I am just stubborn and arguementative at the best of times...... :-P

[wood_patrick]

Pat,

4.54 litres in a gallon as I recall....

Chris


Bugger. See, these are the drawbacks of having a free fuel card with work.... My first calculations were based on £1.15 per litre and didnt realise it was out till I looked at the receipt yesterday and saw £1.36. Nearly had a heart attack! I thought £1.15 was bad. Will redo now. Duh!

[dgh938peg]

Did you check for fault codes while you were setting the timing? I dare say something is amiss tbh.

[wood_patrick]

Did you check for fault codes while you were setting the timing? I dare say something is amiss tbh.

Nope. :-( No means to as yet. Good point though. Any recommendations?

[dgh938peg]

Bridge Te1 and E1 and my money is on one of the knock sensors - having been in a similar position!

[wood_patrick]

I bridged the terminals, thought you meant had I plugged in with a diagnostic tool or the like...

Knock sensor sounds possible, but if it were that wouldnt that cause it to mess with the timing enough to hear it? I strobed it while running on the drive and timing seemed normal within tolerances but that wasnt under load though....

[snowtigger]

If you have a little light bulb in the circuit it will flash out a code like 4 long followed by 2 short flashes=42 ,have a search there should be all manner of info on fault codes on here.

Well I put £40 on Friday and that got me from my house to rugby then half way back to keel services before I stuck another £40 at £1.36 a litre, so I wonder how good is my 2gr?
Going to work out the distance back in a mo.

Right 191 miles on £40 it may even be 200 as there was a few detours, and quite a bit of spirited driving, mostly I was a good boy and kept to 70mph once or twice though I had to let in to temptation lol.

[wood_patrick]

Tigger - Where do I use the bulb? TE1 & E1?

Fuel MPG - Thats about 30 mpg then on a motorway which isnt that bad. :-) Planning to take mine back a click to 9 (Then maybe try 8 also) as not sure if a *little* too lean and doing 28mpg on country roads does seem a bit too good to be true.....

[cdwood2010]

Tigger - Where do I use the bulb? TE1 & E1?

Fuel MPG - Thats about 30 mpg then on a motorway which isnt that bad. :-) Planning to take mine back a click to 9 (Then maybe try 8 also) as not sure if a *little* too lean and doing 28mpg on country roads does seem a bit too good to be true.....

I do seem to recall that maths was not your strongpoint.....

:)

Chris.

[snowtigger]

It isn't mine either, pat do a search I can't help as never done one, just read a lot about sticking two bits of wire and a small bulb in to read the flashes to pull the error codes, plus if you keep resetting the ecu you will wipe the stored codes that I do know.

30mpg and triple digits on speedo lovely fuel economy and power, I may get the price of my install back then in thirty years lol.

[ColleyV8]

I thought it was the check engine light that flashed when you jumper the terminals and then turn ignition to on position with out starting car? Or does this not work in MR2 hybrid.

[wood_patrick]

Just getting chance to look at this again.

Not touched the terminals and fault codes yet but will update once (if ever) Ive fully grasped it. :-P

ColleyV8 - No flashes from engine light, and that bulb was missing when I did the speedo so dunno if it works anyway. some weird aftermarket dials... :-S Also You get the bonnet?

Also, not yet tried at 9 or 8 clicks, but thats next on agenda. :-)

[ColleyV8]

ColleyV8 - No flashes from engine light, and that bulb was missing when I did the speedo so dunno if it works anyway. some weird aftermarket dials... :-S Also You get the bonnet?

Yep got the bonnet, can't believe they would pick up with that wrapping and not before, you will have to put a bulb in the CEL and see what codes it gives if any. Best option is to jumper the diagnostic, then turn the key to position 1, you will be near the light to see it then.

[wood_patrick]

:icon_mrgreen:

MR2 Pic

MR2 PIC CLICK HERE (www.ddraiggochwelshcobs.co.uk/Ebay_Auctions/MR2_Sexy.jpg)

And an arty farty one HERE (http://www.ddraiggochwelshcobs.co.uk/Ebay_Auctions/MR2_Sexy_B&W.jpg)

[wood_patrick]

Howdy all!

Thought I would give a quick update as to my little pocket rocket.

I put into into a container at the start of November as I dont have a garage :-(, as I knew I wouldnt use it over winter as too twitchy in the wet and thought it would be better than it sat outside in the wet, snow and ice. Big mistake! :-( Whole car went damp, mold inside and engine started to oxidise and crystalise on top of cam covers and the plenum, etc. I did go to check on it every week or two but until I got it outside in the light didnt realise how bad.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/100.jpg

Anyway, pulled it out of the container last weekend and taxed it (Was still insured & MOT'd) and decided to sort an oil leak I had noticed just before JAE last year and never got chance to do. I knew it wasnt the cam covers as they started leaking before and I nipped them up which sorted it, but could see it leaking from the black disk thing.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/101.jpg

So, off came the cam cover (this was on the front bank btw) and then realised the little black circle thing was completely loose and just popped out when I put some pressure on it from inside.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/102.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/103.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/104.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/105.jpg

So, cleaned it all down removed the cap that holds in in place, modest bead of gaskett sealent all the way round (Wish I had got red rather than blue....) put the circle thing in, then the cap and nipped it all down. Slapped the cam covers on, and this time used some threadlock and a very thin bead of gaskett sealant just to make sure.

Anyway, finished item looked like this, although forgot to get a pic with cam cover on.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/03/106.jpg

After all that and being chuffed I had sorted the oil leak, then realised a few days later I have another one on the back somewhere but havent had chance to see exactly where, but can see oil on the rear engine/box mount on the crossmember so will be sorting that on Monday.

Mondays plans (day off work) is to sort the oil leak, and fit the SS back section that came off Az's MR2 as it doesnt quite line up where the Kakimoto starts. Did try last weekend, but didnt have a welder to hand so down the father in laws garage to do it proper. :-)

[snowtigger]

Nice job there, and yes they go moldy best thing to do is plastic bucket with some of those moisture gel packs that suck the moisture out from inside the car that will stop it going musty inside the car.
As for exhaust we need before and after pics and vids on Monday.
And go you on the oil leaks yes red is permanent and blue is temporary but you can also get stuff that's like black rubber now that you don't need a gasket even.

[adamh]

good note on the container rot. i've always used a light smear of silicon the cam cover rubber before nipping down

[wood_patrick]

Good plan, didn't think about gel packs although the container was damp inside so would've needed a few! It wasn't leaking but just wasn't breathing and would've probably been better with doors open for some fresh air. :-/ Next year it's gonna be in aircon'd storage somewhere! Lol.

Only reason I wanted red was to match the paintwork, but will be replacing heads soon with spare set once P&P and powder coated so will be redoing then anyway. :-)

And yep, wish we had put something on the first time but didn't quite realise how finicky and prone to leak after a rebuild the cam covers were. Know for next time though! Would love to get another 3vzfe and do a total rebuild with the full monty like some have done but it's finding the space at the moment. Probably sort something in the autumn to keep me busy over winter. :-)

[wood_patrick]

And yes, will get plenty pics and vids! Have still got a load of spare exhaust bits too so will be looking at seeing what I can blue Peter from leftovers of donor cars. Did start a thread before but yet to finish. :-)

[snowtigger]

Don't get the cam covers blasted get them acid dipped then powder coated, as a few people have gone this route and found grit in the oil and a buggered engine after a few miles.

[adamh]

Good plan, didn't think about gel packs although the container was damp inside so would've needed a few! It wasn't leaking but just wasn't breathing and would've probably been better with doors open for some fresh air. :-/ Next year it's gonna be in aircon'd storage somewhere! Lol.

Only reason I wanted red was to match the paintwork, but will be replacing heads soon with spare set once P&P and powder coated so will be redoing then anyway. :-)

And yep, wish we had put something on the first time but didn't quite realise how finicky and prone to leak after a rebuild the cam covers were. Know for next time though! Would love to get another 3vzfe and do a total rebuild with the full monty like some have done but it's finding the space at the moment. Probably sort something in the autumn to keep me busy over winter. :-)

funnily enough.. talking about rot and stuff, I had no where to build my engine which was close to a house / amenities/ BOG !, so i stripped it into bits first at work on a weekend, stored the parts and worked on one ata a time. when all ready to fit i built it in the garden under a tarpaulin on 3-4 weeks, suffered no rot at-all. i did suffer a snapped ring (twat me attempting to fit piston without ring compressor even though i had two compressors). and a sheared cam shaft (F.Up of the year, by not removing some rag which was stuck down an oil feed hole in the head, starved cam of oil, picked up on bearing cap, grabbed cam and sheared the bastid under load) forgetting that, doing it outside had no detrimental effect in mid febuary/march, kept oiled, under a tarpauly.

[cdwood2010]

Yeah, I think a big tin box made it sweat too much, stupid hot / cold weather.

Worst thing you can do with a car is nothing IMHO.

C.