Diesel Meisters Mk1 2gr-fe conversion - project mindfuck.

[Paul Woods]

Ok here we go chaps, the worlds first 2gr-fe powered Mk1 Mr2 build, i've nicknamed it project "mindfuck" because the 2gr Mk2's we have built have blown our tits off performance wise, so it's unthinkable what this thing is going to be like!! I personally can't wait to see the outcome.

We started by getting DM's car in on the lift. This is a pretty clean Mk1a, nice solid looking body to it and a perfect donor for the conversion.

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/02/194.jpg

One of the issues with the car is that Mr Meister had a little engine bay fire, someone left the oil filler cap loose , <cough!> let's mention no names shall we diran? :) Anyway as part of the conversion we will be repairing the fire damage for free so it's not a problem.

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/02/195.jpg

The burnt 4age before removal....

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/02/158.jpg

About an hour later...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/02/196.jpg

So the bay still needs gutting and engine mounts removing but the first steps have been taken.

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/02/197.jpg

There are going to be many first time mods on this car to cope with the 2gr power, it's going to be a long project so sit back and enjoy project mindfuck :blink:

[hmmmmm]

*subscribed*

The mk2 2gr whas already quite brutal, this is going to be as mean as a V8 Chainsaw cutting up ducklings and kittens while on fire!

[smccullie]

This is going to be interesting :popcorn:
*subscribed*

[snowtigger]

So this is project mindfuck can't wait till I find out what's my projects name is?

[kenny.c]

Ohhhh yeeeaaaahhhhhh !!!!! Subscribed.

[Paul Woods]

So this is project mindfuck can't wait till I find out what's my projects name is?


Project "walletrape" :)

[Gouky]

Project "walletrape" :)

oh christ I about lost it reading this.

*subscribing to thread*

[gidonlamboo]

From 115 to 270 HP in this lightweight car rotflmao

[Gouky]

From 115 to 270 HP in this lightweight car rotflmao

For what it's worth, it's closer to 290-300RWHP. 275 was what my car got with the old headers and -5% correction for the cold weather. but the ECU has proven to not reduce it's output at higher temperatures (at least not at reasonable higher temperatures like 85degrees Fahrenheit.)

6.5lbs/HP!

[gidonlamboo]

For what it's worth, it's closer to 290-300RWHP. 275 was what my car got with the old headers and -5% correction for the cold weather. but the ECU has proven to not reduce it's output at higher temperatures (at least not at reasonable higher temperatures like 85degrees Fahrenheit.)

6.5lbs/HP!

Even better :drool2:

[Torero]

Subscribed to Project "MindFuck" :praise2:

[SlipSlide]

Also subscribed, unleash hell.

[Rosssco]

That's going to be "The fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy"... lol

No offence, I just miss my mk1..<:(

[pilotpete]

If my car is as mental as Paul says, then R.I.P Diesel ! I'll give you the lowdown after I bring mine home on Saturday - that is one trip I'm looking forward to (humongous understatement).

[OlberJ]

DM, i hope you're quite prepared for driving this thing lol

Although quite what that preparation could possibly consist of i have no idea.

Bet you didn't forsee this from that 1st email all those moons ago eh?

[biteme]

Result! I'm intrigued about the supporting mods as well. Should be great!
Brace, strengthen, support! You might have to look into life insurance and traction control :o)

[Lee]

Looking forward to seeing this come together!

DM I think driving this will be a bit like this: http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/01/1.gif

[Diesel Meister]

Epic!

Can't believe I first spoke to Paul about a conversion in 2008 - I didn't even own an MR2 then. This one was bought with the specific intention of going 1.6. I think the prev owner might have a coronary if she knew lol

Rock on WS :thumbsup:

And no, we shan't mention that I nearly barbecued the car after buying the damned engine lol

[Lee]

I was the same on my first V6 conversion, was about 100 PM's over about a year before I went for it, probably drove Paul nuts! :)

[decipherer]

This is crazy, such a big engine is such a small car! Looking forward to updates on this one. :thumbsup:

[Paul Woods]

A little bit of history made today! Say hello to the worlds first 2gr mounted in a Mk1...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/196.jpg

This took some pretty major mods to the engine bay to achieve, and will only sit in this position to clear everything. I had to modify the rear crossmember as well as the front firewall, but it's all in and hanging on its new chassis mounts. Nothing is detailed, it doesn't even have a flywheel installed, this is just a dry hanging to get the engine mounts done, it all has to come back out again. The rear firewall will be reconstructed with a nice access panel for maintenance.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/21.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/197.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/198.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/22.jpg

Sump clearance is good.... but at a cost of engine lid mods.

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/199.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/200.jpg

It will obviously need a WS TD lid as will any 2gr mk1, it's got to sit at this height to keep driveshafts happy and sump clearance.

So by far the biggest hurdle overcome, a hanging 2gr in a mk1.

[Plasticgeordie2007]

Good work Paul

[Gary Symons]

Nice :thumbsup: that bay looks pretty full now!

[Paul Woods]

You're not kidding gary! It's mighty tight in there, but should look awesome when it's all detailed and boxed in. This thing is going to be insane.

[Diesel Meister]

Fark me!

Awesome Paul, awesome. I need to wire some funds for the other bits and pieces mate.

This is looking like being the absolute pooches pouch :thumbsup:

Makes all the long working hours worth it.

[Gouky]

it looks glorious sitting in there.

is it possible to get a better shot of the right side from the top to see how the supercharger drive assembly would fit in there?

[Rowdan]

it looks glorious sitting in there.

:amen:I've got to agree, there must be a temptation to leave a big hole in the rear firewall so you can show off those headers.:cool:

[Tim Higgott]

Holy mother of god thats big.

[decipherer]

That's a tight fit :) But making good progress there Paul, you will have finished all the 2GR swaps before I finish mine ;) How big is the Mk1 engine bay compared to the Mk3?

[Diesel Meister]

The "G-PIPE" (tm) headers are a drool fest that's for sure - props to Gouky Engineering inc. lol

I can't quite believe it actually fits. I thought the cabin would need a bit of shrinkage. So long as minor service items are quasi accessible and I can fit behind the wheel, it doesn't matter :)

I'm not sure if the S/C will fit but then we're asking a lot of the car to fit 24 valves, 6 cylinders, 4 cams and 3.5 litres into the same space as a 4A-GE! Woodsport wizardry at work.

Next thoughts are FD - I'm really tempted to lengthen it before the box goes on TBH. Even if the 6 speed option is available this year, I'm planning on going down to one car in order to dual fund this build and the missus' housing budget. So I'll need a car I can stand to drive on longer trips as well as "recreational trips"

I think I'd like a 3.625 for when I'm sitting at M-way speeds but I worry that (a) 3.6 is not available over here and the ex-rate is shocking; and (b) 3.6 may sap some of the "shock and awe" from the crucial "through the gears" acceleration. What do we think about 3.933 as a compromise? Still shortish for the engine spec but better than 4.285 and options are limited.

Opinions?

[Gouky]

Gouky Engineering is actually "Frankenstein Motorworks" if you ask the state i currently live in.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/23.jpg

as for the final drive stuff, i'd not worry about it until you've truly decided you aren't going to go 6-spd. the motor won't care much about spinning a little higher, it sounds a little angry about it, but it'll do it all day long and still get pretty good fuel economy. in an MKI i bet it gets over 35UKMPG with stock 4.285 gears on the highway.

if you do find 3.625 gears, don't worry about it taking the shock and awe away from the car. the torque still comes on hard enough to make 1st gear useless.

[Diesel Meister]

Dr Frankenstein lol

Re. the FD - I guess I'll just start in third then.

[loadswine]

Wow! That looks mentally good!!! Way to go. :thumbsup:

[Paul Woods]

Kars the Mk3 bay is narrower than a mk1 bay between the rails, and between the struts, it also has a large bit of its bay under the parcel shelf of the car, so that is a problem too... there is obviously enough room for a 2gr because it has been done before in a mk3 but it must be very tight.

I have had to relieve the front firewall, ditch the brake servo pipe and petrol tank evap tubing, but i have good clearance around the front of the engine now and i seem to have the gearbox sitting in the same place it sits on a 1.5 swap.

One major plus point is that i have not had to chop the engine lid catch off the rear firewall, that is the first Mk1 V6 of ANY type to retain that, which is all down to the plenum design, i really like that.

[Gouky]

... ditch the ... petrol tank evap tubing...


I'm curious what you do to replace this functionality. i've had to ditch this on my 86 and i don't have a plan yet on how to keep the fuel tank vented without just venting to the atmosphere.

[Paul Woods]

In the past i have ditched that useless evap tubing and just installed one of the vac lines to a charcoal cannister and the other straight to the check valve on the chassis, seems to work ok. I think that long tube on the bulkhead is some sort of condenser but i've never looked into its actual role, largely unimportant though.

[Gouky]

In the past i have ditched that useless evap tubing and just installed one of the vac lines to a charcoal cannister and the other straight to the check valve on the chassis, seems to work ok. I think that long tube on the bulkhead is some sort of condenser but i've never looked into its actual role, largely unimportant though.

i was spending time staring at it last weekend. i took the tank out to change the fuel pump. it looks like the three small lines go to the front middle and rear of the tank and the large line goes to the canister. probably to stop fuel from making it strait into the charcoal canister if parked on a steep angle.

I saved the middle line and the plan was to feed it to the engine through a thermostatic valve. i suppose it if ever picks up strait fuel it won't be the end of the world. the engine won't mind going rich for a few cycles. the thermostatic valve stops the fumes from getting out through the intake when the car is parked and stinking up the place.

[dgh938peg]

Fuck a duck that looks mahooooooooooosive in there! Hats off sir!

[hmmmmm]

Paul will you need to do any modifications to the rear suspension? Or can you use the stock parts?

And Gouky nice logo :)

[Gouky]

Paul will you need to do any modifications to the rear suspension? Or can you use the stock parts?

And Gouky nice logo :)

Thanks, and you've got interesting timing.

Paul and I decided the axleshafts that fit in the MKI simply won't do. I'm actualy developing a couple of parts to be able to put MKII turbo axleshafts in an MKIa/b knuckle.

these parts will be available very soon and will probably be useful for many other people also. no solid idea on cost yet. instalation will be no more complicated than a brake job and a wheel bearing change. stock MKII rear brakes will then fit on there, requiring upgraded front brakes to balance the system

[Diesel Meister]

Have I ever said how much I love TB? lol

Marc - Yes, the logo is awesome :thumbsup:

I'll be running WMS brakes on the front with ST185 discs and had planned to incorporate some MKII rear discs for a nice balance. Either way, the engineering efforts of both you and Paul (as well as the TB "Hive Mind") are much appreciated in helping to make this happen. I just have to persuade my bank manager now lol

[Paul Woods]

Ah marc are you aware our Uk mk1's don't even have a charcoal cannister at all? Toyota just decided to vent the gasses straight into the chassis, which was nice of them :) So i make them more like a USDM car by adding a charcoal cannister which it really should have in my opinion.

Yes marc and i are working on a hub upgrade, there is no way i want to rely on st185 CV's on this car.

The chassis is also receiving strengthening mods which i am uploading now, details in a mo.

[Gouky]

Ah marc are you aware our Uk mk1's don't even have a charcoal cannister at all? Toyota just decided to vent the gasses straight into the chassis, which was nice of them :) So i make them more like a USDM car by adding a charcoal cannister which it really should have in my opinion.

Yes marc and i are working on a hub upgrade, there is no way i want to rely on st185 CV's on this car.

The chassis is also receiving strengthening mods which i am uploading now, details in a mo.

oh, it hadn't occurred to me that the charcoal canister was optional. this explains a bit more why us domestic cars don't have that fuel/air seperator. the charcoal canister does a good job of seperating it anyways.

are you saying your vent line goes strait into the nipple on the left side of the frame next to the clutch line? is there any vacuum applied to the tank?

[Diesel Meister]

Pre-cat UK cars generally stink of fuel by comparison to older models. Personally, I love it lol

[Paul Woods]

There is a known issue on very high power/torque Mk1 engine swaps that can lead to the front and rear torque mounts tearing the chassis mounts clean off, anything over 300bhp and very hard launches can crack and tear the chassis mounting points, this is basically a captive nut inside 1.6mm thick steel, which is fine for a 4age and even 300bhp 3sgtes driven sensibly etc.... but just not beefy enough for loony swaps like this.

So the front torque mount area got a 5mm plate welded over a far wider area to spread the load.... this needs seam sealing and painting but it will be strong as an ox, albeit a 2gr powered ox :)

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/201.jpg

With this done i was able to make the front torque mount itself, nothing you haven't seen before on the other v6/1.5 builds....

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/202.jpg

This will get a polyurethane mount bushing inserted.

On the rear chassis mount i started by adding a 5mm thick angle iron section to the chassis, lets see it rip that fecker off!

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/203.jpg

Not taking any chances with strength on this build, everything is getting severely overengineered, we know what petes was like and i cannot compute the same experience in a Mk1.... by the way is pete still alive? :)

Rear torque mount building tomorrow and then the engine can come back out.

[Paul Woods]

are you saying your vent line goes strait into the nipple on the left side of the frame next to the clutch line? is there any vacuum applied to the tank?

Yep, no vacuum applied to the tank at all on UK mk1's, it just goes into that condenser/separator and then vented into the chassis.... lol No Toyota recall on that design flaw i notice? That reminds me, must take my mk1 back to them for the rusty rear arches. :)

Mk1's stink to high heaven of fuel when the check valve on the chassis fails.... which is hardly surprising. So DM's will get a charcoal cannister.

[Gouky]

Yep, no vacuum applied to the tank at all on UK mk1's, it just goes into that condenser/separator and then vented into the chassis.... lol No Toyota recall on that design flaw i notice? That reminds me, must take my mk1 back to them for the rusty rear arches. :)

Mk1's stink to high heaven of fuel when the check valve on the chassis fails.... which is hardly surprising. So DM's will get a charcoal cannister.

oh, a check valve. that makes sense now! i assume the checkvalve only allows air in the tank, not out, right? enough to not vac-lock the fuel system.

this will be good enough for the race car. it'll stop me from splashing the insides of the motor with extra gasoline. thanks for the tip!

as for all the reinforcement work, it's looking great. ought to be strong enough to pull the front wheels off the ground :)

[Paul Woods]

Yes that about explains how it works, a truely shit idea. I heard there was supposed to have been a memo sent out from Toyota HQ to all dealers to remove the chassis vent pipe from the chassis (after the check valve) on all cars during the PDI.... so that drivers did not get the fuel smell in the cabin, instead it just vented out to atmosphere.... but sadly this memo must have gone in the bin or never existed.

[hmmmmm]

Nice work on the axles lads, this will be usefull for a lot of people! And the strenghtening looks good too, no way that coming off!

[Diesel Meister]

Loving it.

My brief is simple ( lol ) - build me a 2GR Mk1 that's rapid and reliable. The "cheap" bit of the equation is out the window lol

All I've got to hope is that the combo of handling, brakes and my bravery (no talent to speak of) are up to to letting this car do it's thing properly. I see tuition time coming....

[OlberJ]

Might be worth copying the S/C setup on the rear torque mount base and have bolts in the vertical part of this angle too.

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg

Mk2 and Mk3's have the 4 bolt setup also.

[Paul Woods]

Good thinking olie but not strictly necessary, Mk2 and Mk3 have four bolts on the horizontal plane, none have any on the vertical, i guess the reason being the forces acting on this mount are just pulling down as you accelerate. There are hardly any front to back forces.

I had already planned to make the mount base angled to go up the back of the member like a mk1 SC mount does, so it's an angle hugging an angle, should be ample.... the front mount only has two bolts too.

I think i'm going to poly the rear mount as well and see how it goes, at the risk of excess chassis vibration but i'd like to make sure this engine isn't rocking about in the Mk1 bay.

[Paul Woods]

Today all of the engine mounts got finished, the fabrication stage that is... the chassis mounts still need seam sealing/painting.

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/210.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/211.jpg

The rear torque mount was made using 6mm plate on everything, real overkill compared to what i'd normally use here. I also made a third bolting point on the crossmember...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/212.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/213.jpg

Front mount in place, still needs its polybush.

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/214.jpg

Both torque mounts in place.... uber strong.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/24.jpg

[biteme]

They'd hold the Queen Mary!

[Paul Woods]

Yeah i may have overdone them a bit :)

[Gouky]

somehow I doubt he'll have a problem overcoming the inertia of the extra weight :hehe:

[dgh938peg]

Mr PW - do you find that the generic MR2 torque mounts (the rubbery bit) are up to the job on v6's? Mine went through (3) front ones in the space of 2500 miles.... Yeah alright they were all used but still....

[Diesel Meister]

Look at all that metal! More reinforcements than a brigadier general! Nice work Paul - this should keep the engine seated quite nicely :thumbsup:

I like over-engineering and Gouky says, the extra 1.9 litres, ~150bhp, ~150lb.ft, 8 valves, 2 cams etc. will be man enough.

I'm still hoping that I can come in under 1150kgs but it will be ballistic either way methinks.

One of the last big purchases will be the wheels, which I want to go light on if possible. But I can’t begin to choose / spec until we know what the offsets on the rear will be and whether I can fit 8 or 9 in wide rims with appropriate tyres in there. Some interesting developments lie ahead!

Despite Gouky's sage advice, I'm still very tempted by a longer FD - it will aid cruising and can't hurt traction either.

Top speeds in E153 gears using 4.285 FD on 16x8 wearing 245/45/ZR16 (40 profile in brackets) assuming 6400rpm:

1st 33.9 (32.6)
2nd 57.4 (55.1)
3rd 83.0 (79.8)
4th 119.1 (114.5)
5th 150.15 (144.29)

Cruising Mph in 5th:

2krpm = 46.9 (45.1)
3krpm = 70.4 (67.6)

Not hideous but revving a bit high considering the capacity and torque on offer methinks. As above but with 3.933 FD:

1st 37 (35.5)
2nd 62 (60.1)
3rd 90.5 (86.9)
4th 129.8 (124.7)
5th 163.6 (157.20)

Cruising Mph in 5th:

2krpm = 51.1 (49.1)
3krpm = 76.7 (73.7)

Better imo, without removing the urgency to the acceleration. As to whether it's worth the extra cost (and hassle for Paul) that depends. I'm used to the standard gearing on the Mk1a - it was well suited to the 4A-GE characteristics. That said I think slightly longer gearing would suit the V6 better (especially in view of the torque to weight ratio) without denting performance, although I'm not a 'bahn stormer who cruises everywhere at 500mph.

The 6 speed option is definitely compelling but I think if I sort the FD on the E153 I should have a nice shift quality (not driven a E153 but the N/A Mk2 shift was nice) and decent gearing now, which allows me the option to defer the cost of going six-pack until I can afford to eat, I mean buy the S/C kit lol. Of course my assumption is that I can sell the E153 with FD when / if I go 6, assuming there's still a market for fivers then…

It is additional cost now but I have the sneaking suspicion that the 4.285 might really annoy me when I'm not attacking a circuit or something, because it over multiplies the available torque. It might be livable (and gives the option of shifting from 1st-3rd-5th with ease) but I think 3.9 will be closer to optimal.

Thoughts?

How much can I get a 3.933 FD for and where?

[Lee]

Maybe it's me but in my friends Alfa V6 it cruised well below 3K at 80+. Lovely and relaxing.

To me that would make sense but for the money spent on raising the cruise limit @3000Rpm by 10mph is it worth it?

Maybe if it's a daily driver and you will be racking up 15K a year but I'm sure it's going to be a toy?

So for the weekends when you are out and about and you are cruising or you actually get up to cruising speed on our road system, is it money well spent?

[biteme]

http://forums.twobrutal.com/showthread.php?t=6127&highlight=3.933

[Diesel Meister]

Thanks Johnny - I honesty couldn't find that thread. tiem for me to start using the search terms properly!

Lee - I know what you mean and the car certainly won't be a DD or a motorway cruiser (got a hack for that) but I do have a few trips planned and I really dislike unnecessarily high cruising revs. That said, I tend to drive quite sedately on the M-way's anyway - traffic and all that lol

It's tricky because I do need to be sensible. But I think sensible is deciding whether I'm getting this done now, rather than 1 month after the conversion's finished lol

[snowtigger]

All I whant know is if the acceleration at 70 overtaking on a motorway is brisk enough?

[Diesel Meister]

I should coco tiggs - using any of the above FDs or even the 3.625 will not stunt the slaying ability of ~275bhp and ~250lb.ft. in a ~1ton car.

In fact with the 4.285 FD, it would be positively ballistic in 5th at 70 mph, as you'd be (a) sitting right around peak torque and (b) have the meat tof the powerband to go.

[Paul Woods]

Mr PW - do you find that the generic MR2 torque mounts (the rubbery bit) are up to the job on v6's? Mine went through (3) front ones in the space of 2500 miles.... Yeah alright they were all used but still....

hi dan, no the front NA torque mounts are not up to v6 abuse at all, the turbo front torque mount fairs slightly better, they last maybe up to a year, but we use front polybush mounts on all NA V6's now and in extreme cases like DM's car we fit polys to both mounts. Johnnys car has both mounts done, the stock ones would just rip apart after a short while.

[Gouky]

All I whant know is if the acceleration at 70 overtaking on a motorway is brisk enough?

Is the pope catholic?

[Paul Woods]

Tiggs i think you are in for a shock mate.

No pics today as it's relatively boring stuff, but the bay is now seam sealed, walbro is installed and tank back in, engine is half way through detailing, DBW custom pedal adapter is made (much more room than on a mk2!). Monday sees the bay resprayed so it will look all pretty again.

[Diesel Meister]

Paul - :thumbsup:

[Gouky]

The weather is finally nice again, i was driving mine around today.

passing is completely effortless, drop the right foot and within seconds you've overtaken anyone you wanted to :)

[biteme]

I can't wait for the chaps actually testing this. Paul might well fill his nappy!

[snowtigger]

Is there an option to fit the supra tt pump Paul, instead of the walbro is it more costly?

[brianbooth]

Is there an option to fit the supra tt pump Paul, instead of the walbro is it more costly?

Toyota wants $250+ for them at the dealer but there are some e-bay ones for ~$150 out there that are supposedly made by a denso offshoot. The Walbro's cost what? $100ish?

[Diesel Meister]

Well, I wanted a quiet-ish solution but I think the walbro flows enough, plus is easy to get hold of. If I need more flow I'll just do a JG and ad another one lol

A bit pump whine never killed anyone and unless you going for a restive back box, and eco-tyres, there'll be plenty by way of accompaniment.

[biteme]

Well, I wanted a quiet-ish solution but I think the walbro flows enough, plus is easy to get hold of. If I need more flow I'll just do a JG and ad another one lol

A bit pump whine never killed anyone and unless you going for a restive back box, and eco-tyres, there'll be plenty by way of accompaniment.

In hindsight, I'd not recommend the dual solution mate. If you need more than one Walbro, go external with a Bosch 044

[Diesel Meister]

Noted sir. Although after Pete's result, I doubt I'll be needing a whole heap more power in an AW11 chassis lol

[Paul Woods]

A little update, the bay is now 100% structurally finished and 95% cosmetically done, after applying a high build primer coat and several coats of base followed by 3 good coats of clearcoat we have this...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/218.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/219.jpg

Shinier than the outside of phils wallet (he keeps stroking it)

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/220.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/221.jpg

Fire damage? what fire damage?

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/222.jpg

We also treated the chassis to a free undersealing...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/223.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/224.jpg

The cam covers are also freshly painted...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/225.jpg

So the engine is almost ready for its final install.

[Gouky]

DM's wife will kill him when she realizes he now needs to refresh the interior to look as sharp as the exterior.

what you've done here is made a brand new car from 23yr old peices.

spectacular looking work :)

[biteme]

Am thinking shagpile new carpets, some leather/alcantara seats/door cards and a DASH2 speedo conversion

[Diesel Meister]

Am. Speechless.

(In a good way).

Also, in addition to the garage magic, I'd also like to remind TB of the legendary status of WS in terms of customer service! I must try to pester Paul a bit less lol


***naughty stuff***

STOP IT! lol

This is shaping up just as I'd planned - a refreshed AW11 with 911-bothering ability (well potentially with a decent pilot!) :thumbsup:

[Quandry]

Just amazing Paul...

[Moustachio]

Wowser!

Can't wait to see how the aw11 chassis copes with this....

:respekt:8O

[Paul Woods]

Thanks chaps, i am expecting a lot from this one myself.

[biteme]

Thanks chaps, i am expecting a lot from this one myself.

A sonic boom?

[Paul Woods]

Today we added a full koni suspension kit to the car and polybushed it...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/226.jpg

Then i decided the rear of this thing needed a beefing up roll wise, it's not on DM's wish list but i went ahead and did it anyway! Made a new ARB mounting point on each side of the chassis and fitted a Mk2 turbo ARB with new polybushes.

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/227.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/63.jpg

This will make a huge difference to the handling and at no extra cost, just part of what we do here when a car is in for an extreme engine conversion, free upgrades!

[biteme]

This thing will need all over the bracing it can have! Top work Mr W.

DM: You bracing the front and rear?

[Diesel Meister]

I'm trying to stifle my boyish excitement and follow Paul's advice - I just said vaguely what I wanted fro mthe car (well kinda vaguely lol ) and he's doing his thing. I strongly approve :)

I think bracing may be a very good idea, although this will be a road car so a full cage is off the menu I think (safety / access).

But some sort of cross bracing maybe in order with all that torque :)

Paul - Spot. On. :thumbsup:

[Paul Woods]

We will look at adding some bracing when the engine is rehung, see what space we have left over in the bay etc.

[ukpaisley]

Another top job Mr P !, this is another one for the record books ! looks great !

[snowtigger]

wahooo i cant wait my wallets already having palpetations.

[knightrous]

Made a new ARB mounting point on each side of the chassis and fitted a Mk2 turbo ARB with new polybushes.

Sorry to derail a bit from the topic, but how much of a difference does the SW20 Turbo ARB make to the handling? How much bigger is the ARB over the AW11 one?

[biteme]

It's a lot bigger and will firm up the rear end nicely. I think the stock Mk2 ARB is 19mm

[snowtigger]

the stock mk1 one is like piano wire or a bit thicker coat hanger you can strum a tune on it the arb blues, its that bad all right for a 1.6 4age but not up to the job of some thing that puts out twice the power.

[Paul Woods]

Bear in mind it will fit onto the stock Mk1b mounting points, but a Mk1a is different on the chassis mounting points and needs to be set further back, i just make new mounts and weld them on for a Mk1a. This is one of the best mods you can do to a big engined Mk1, it really makes a noticeable difference.

[Diesel Meister]

<-- Makes happy face.

Paul, will we be staying with five studs on the rear? Makes no odds to me just narrowing down a couple of potential options.

[Paul Woods]

Yes it will be a 5 stud rear, i'm going to see what the offsets are like with a stock mk2 wheel on the back to give you a better idea on widths/offsets etc.

[Paul Woods]

Well today saw the fidanza fitted, ACT clutch installed and the LSD gearbox fitted, then the whole lot refitted into the fresh engine bay...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/228.jpg

Some things are just meant to be, this left side radiator hose is the stock 4a-ge one, and it fits perfectly, no trimming or adjusting, it just fits. I also added the heater hoses, fuel pressure regulator and worked out the placement of a few other things, we have loads of room in this bay surprisingly.

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/229.jpg

An overview of the bay as it looks now... personally i think we should leave the back window out permanently :)

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/230.jpg

[Tim Higgott]

Paul are the hub adaptors something you could provide in kit form.

I may be mistaken but i'm not running turbo drive shafts and could snap them over 300 bhp.

[Paul Woods]

Hi Tim, you are running turbo shafts but st185 outer CV's which are known to break sometimes on very hard launches and over 300bhp. Gouky can supply everything needed to convert to Mk2 turbo hub splines but you would need a garage to press the new bearings in etc... and of course fit 5 stud rear wheels if you didn't convert them to 4 stud. I am sure Marc can also supply a 4 stud version if asked nicely though :)

[Gouky]

You guys have an insatiable appetite for new parts, don't you?

anyways, i've got two sets of adapters going to Woodsport right now for DM's and Snowtigger's MK1s. I'm working on figuring a more cost effective way to manufacture these. once i get that figured out, making some with a 4 on 100mm pattern won't be a problem at all. but they will space out your wheel about 5mm more outboard than stock (i need to doublecheck that figure, but i beleive it is resonably accurate)

[Aware]

Damned impressive work, Paul... :drool2:

Std heater hose is a damn nice touch, also...as is SWt ARB :)


An overview of the bay as it looks now... personally i think we should leave the back window out permanently :)

Hmm...a nice polycarb aerodeck(ASKsport/Blitz SW-style, or a 222D rear clam) would show off the 2GR better(uber-engine sounds notwithstanding, lol)...

:)

[Diesel Meister]

Paul, beer yourself immediately (and anth!) - that's a day's work to be proud of :thumbsup:

I'm understandably anxious to try it out and see how it drive (hopefully as good as it looks!) but there's definite satisfaction to be had from watching it all come together so nicely as well, even if it's not me doing the spannering lol Top class!

[hmmmmm]

Nice work chaps! (as always)

Paul, you are using a mk2 turbo ARB, and i can understand wy, the mk1 is like dental floss. But it there any difference between the mk2 turbo and na models? Or maybe a stiffer ARB on the rev2/3?

[Paul Woods]

It goes by revision rather than turbo/na by the look of it, so early rev1 are 18mm and rev2 look to be 19mm, so i think the rev3 will be thicker again.

[snowtigger]

When I last looked at arb bushes there where 5 sizes from 18 to 22 mm.
So as the revisions go up so does the arb apparently and if ordering bushes you have to check which rev you have.

[moohahaitz131]

do the adapters let you use a mk2 hub? or just changes the splines on the mk1 hub to accept the mk2 axle shafts? either way, how much???

[Paul Woods]

This lets you keep the Mk1 knuckle but uses the Mk2 stub axle/flange.

[Paul Woods]

More Mk1 2gr madness from today, i found a 1mz camry expansion bottle is the perfect size and shape for the job...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/232.jpg

Also made the first part of the induction pipework with MAF mounting boss on it...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/233.jpg

The supported shaft needed its bearing relocating towards the diff as do all 2gr swaps...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/234.jpg

The view from underneath...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/235.jpg

A reminder of just how good Marcs mounting kit is....

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/236.jpg

So the engine is now totally plumbed up, clutch line adapter made, gear cables modified at the stick and speedo cable routed....all we have left to do is...

Driveshafts
Frankenstein Motorworks rear hubs
Exhaust
Battery relocation
Wiring
Brakes
Engine lid
WS alloy rad upgrade
Boot access panel
Refit rear window,bootlid,side panels
Tacho correction
Wheels

[biteme]

Judging by how you've flown through this, it'll be on the road for testing in about a week! This is the best Mk1 build I've seen on here, period.

[Paul Woods]

That statement all depends on how a certain Mk1 V8 turns out, but i agree DM's build is ticking all the right boxes for me, i love it and would kill for this car.

[biteme]

That statement all depends on how a certain Mk1 V8 turns out, but i agree DM's build is ticking all the right boxes for me, i love it and would kill for this car.

I'm always willing to change my mind, but for mere mortals, this is the best Mk1... :thumbsup:

[Paul Woods]

yep i agree, for attainability it is the best by far, the V8 is more of a Holy grail swap that i doubt anyone will ever ask me to build for them.

[biteme]

yep i agree, for attainability it is the best by far, the V8 is more of a Holy grail swap that i doubt anyone will ever ask me to build for them.

Also think it's the best for the Mk2 and Mk3 as well! It's some engine

[ukpaisley]

Its just fitting together lol, but I think is more like Mr P's expert knowledge that’s making it look easy !!, stunning, one word of warning when you put you’re foot on the loud pedal, make sure the back end of the MR2 is further away from obstacles than some of ya test driving !!

[Torero]

That's an astounding job Paul and quick as well. An excellent choice with the poly bushes and ARB upgrade.

Paul - Can I ask a noob question.... on my MK2 I found that whilst the rear bracing makes a big difference [I have a TRD strut brace fitted]there was a more noticeable improvement when the front brace was fitted - less body roll and more positive steering. Would this also be the same for the MK1 or is the rear end more of a consideration?

[Torero]

Diran, you must be like a dog with 2 cocks mate, not only the 1st mk1 with a 2GR but a top job on the engine bay, suspension and underside. Let me know when I can call up. I don't want to ride in it simply just to listen to the spaff inducing notes it makes :boogie:.

[Paul Woods]

Yes i would agree there is more movement on the front strut towers than the rear despite there being more weight at the rear, the rears are boxed in better whereas the fronts are just upgraded inner wing mountings than proper strut towers, so bracing seems to work well on the front adding more rigidity.

[Gouky]

Driveshafts
Frankenstein Motorworks rear hubs
Exhaust
Battery relocation
Wiring
Brakes
Engine lid
WS alloy rad upgrade
Boot access panel
Refit rear window,bootlid,side panels
Tacho correction
Wheels

The new hubs should get to you sometime tomorrow.

also, i'd like to suggest changing to the all metal rear oil line to that list.

otherwise this looks fantastic!

[snowtigger]

Ive found the front strut braces does indeed make a big differance before it was a bit floppy at the front, now it's more stiffer and responsive on the steering.

Not good on my spine though with all the sleeping police men we have round our way.

This is looking lovely hope mine looks just as good, well it should the 2 best people are working on it Paul and anth.

[Torero]

Thanks Paul/Tigger - The MK2 can also be fitted with a TRD ARB front and rear a monster at 22mm but by all accounts well worth it as it provides a massive amount of rigidity, can you get these for the mk1. Would really work well on this baby.

I am unsure of the availability and cost but it would be well worth iit we can get them fab'd somehow. Although I would imagine that they are wrought iron and have been heat treated or case hardened and have some sort of intrinsic spring properties.

Sorry to hijack the thread DM.

[Diesel Meister]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Thans for the compliments chaps, although all I'm doing is holding the wishlist and my wallet lol

Gorgeous work Paul. I'm running out of compliments :)

Next tricky choice is exhaust. Thinking of going with habitable over fire and brimstone. But the Berk is tempting, more so due Pete's stunning results. Generally, I'm not one for showy, loud exhausts - I've had a couple on cars over the years but generally enjoyed driving the ones without more. On the other hand, I'm a function over form sort of person (or at least like to think I am!) and want to maximise the install as far as performance goes, seeing as WS are going to all that effort lol

As I've opted to keep the short diff for now (cost to change eye-watering plus sixer on horizon - woohoo!) noise might get wearing. But earplugs are cheap and they'd also drown out complaints from passengers....

[Paul Woods]

FOR SALE: one Mk1 throttle pedal :)

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/74.jpg

Bracket made for the new DBW pedal assembly...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/237.jpg

Gear cables modified, same stuff we do to the Mk1.5 swaps, lengthen the left cable and shorten the right one...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/238.jpg

I am relocating the battery to the lower corner of the engine bay, using a 055 type battery... here is the tray in its early stages of fab...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/239.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/240.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/75.jpg

I have started work on the WS TD lid, chopped out the underframe of the stock Mk1 lid and bonded it onto the TD skin.... this obviously needs priming and painting before fitting...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/241.jpg

EDIT: for those that don't know, this is what the WS TD lid looks like from the top...

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/06/87.jpg

The Frankenflange @Copyright :) turned up today, with marcs usual high attention to detail, this will let us use the Mk2 turbo outer CV's :thumbsup:

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/242.jpg

The bay now....

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/243.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/244.jpg

[Diesel Meister]

*Evil Cackle*

Sweet baby jeebus. I cannot wait to pick this baby up! Stunning.

Remind me to send you a new gear shift knob as well - never been keen on the oversized one fitted by teh last owner. I'm thing somethign simple liek a TRD or maybe a just a plain nylon one.

[Paul Woods]

Diran i have an aluminium one that looks something like this ...

http://www.mazda-accessories.com/acatalog/alloyhandbrake_gearknob_MX5.jpg

You are welcome to it for free if you want it.

[Gouky]

I'm curious what the top of the engine lid will look like, any pics of it installed on another car?

[Rowdan]

See this thread
http://forums.twobrutal.com/showthread.php?t=15276

[Gouky]

See this thread
http://forums.twobrutal.com/showthread.php?t=15276

Thanks!

I think it definitely helps complete the look.

[Paul Woods]

Hopefully it will shift a lot more air out of the bay too... although the primary reason was to clear the 2gr plenum as it is sitting pretty high up to get the necessary sump clearance.

I think maybe a SC lid will clear the engine too... i will have to try that.

[BennyTheW]

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg



zOMG... that looks amazing...

cant wait to see some vids of this!

[Diesel Meister]

Paul - yes please! That Momo was getting on my wick. Only thing I didn't like about the car other than the shite radio. Thanks :thumbsup:

[Gouky]

no worries, you've got a new soundtrack also:

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg

[OlberJ]

What exhaust you going for on this DM?

[brianbooth]

That is seriously nice. I'm jealous :)

[Diesel Meister]

Ol - under consideration atm :) Suffice it to say, I looked into Skytune and they seem to have nice stuff but nothing grabbed me immediately. I just want the finished article - stuff like the back box isn't set in stone and can be changed I guess. Might not be a Berk after all though ;)

Bri - cheers. I think my Bank Manager might not share your enthusiasm though lol More importantly, I must remember to treat my very understanding girlfriend to a nice meal for our anniversary next Friday!

Marc - Amen!

[brianbooth]

Ol - under consideration atm :) Suffice it to say, I looked into Skytune and they seem to have nice stuff but nothing grabbed me immediately. I just want the finished article - stuff like the back box isn't set in stone and can be changed I guess. Might not be a Berk after all though ;)

Bri - cheers. I think my Bank Manager might not share your enthusiasm though lol More importantly, I must remember to treat my very understanding girlfriend to a nice meal for our anniversary next Friday!

Marc - Amen!


The berk does sound very, very nice. I wish it had 3 inch ends instead of going up to 4s but such is life.

[OlberJ]

You're not that far away from needing it lol

I'll wait and see what you choose then :)

[Diesel Meister]

It's very difficult but like Bri alludes to, I really don't want 4in cans on the back of an 85 MR2. I think the SW20 only just barely pulls it off (no offense MK2 pilots - personal taste). Hmmmm....

[Gouky]

It's very difficult but like Bri alludes to, I really don't want 4in cans on the back of an 85 MR2. I think the SW20 only just barely pulls it off (no offense MK2 pilots - personal taste). Hmmmm....

does the berk even fit on the MKI? changing the tips isn't that difficult, i think Pete's exhaust modification looks quite tasteful.

[snowtigger]

i like the idea of 4 inch cans so people think you are a boy racer, then they try and race it and blam your away going nar nar nar, and there like wtf just happened my porsche/auditt got blown away by a 25 year old mr2 dont i feel let down, fork sprung der technictwat.

or is it just a case you want that mk1 1.6 sleeper look?

a berk is the same as a turbo and paul works his magic on those to fit marc.

[Gouky]

:funny: it's going to be a bit hard to pull off the sleeper look with that engine lid.

it would be a bit of metal work, but a single center 3" exit would definitely look the part.

now if only you could get it to blip to rich on upshifts...

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/76.jpg

[snowtigger]

You've just given me a good thought for the day Marc cheers.

[Paul Woods]

Oh god..... i have a feeling i'm plumbing a 7th fuel injector into tiggs exhaust.....

[biteme]

...and an 8th

[snowtigger]

nope as putting spark plugs and injectors in exhausts are illegal and a bit saturday night fever/grease era.

was just thinking 2 4inch zorsts exhausting through the centre rear bumper.

[biteme]

It also sends your EGT's through the roof and isn't aviseable.

[Diesel Meister]

:funny: it's going to be a bit hard to pull off the sleeper look with that engine lid.

Fair point! I had to make at least one concession to fitting the engine there :) If a stealthier option with the same ventilation comes along I'll consider it. But I like the WS lid and hopefully some subtle wheels and tail pipes will allow me to park on the street without drawing too much attention from the local yoof (I don't mind genuine enthusiasm / interest but they're not so good about looking without touching around here lol ). Might even let me sneak up on the odd Boxster, before ruining the owners day (in a straight line drag at least lol ).

I could actually stand the big exhaust tips if they were hidden / made discreet - like down swept behind the bumper or something. That would work. It would look / sound like a broken exhaust lol I just think that style of tip only works on larger cars, with high-powered FI engines where phat pipes are really necessary. Hoopras etc. (which along with Skylines etc. are very nice but quite different to the AW11!).




now if only you could get it to blip to rich on upshifts...


That would be extremely awesome. But not quite as extreme or awesome as owning a flame-spitting Lamborghini - one day.... :)

[biteme]

You have DBW throttle, eminently do-able on a standalone :P

[Diesel Meister]

Shh - you're a bad enough influence with your 500bhp V6 lol

[Paul Woods]

Today saw the engine lid prepped and primed...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/245.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/102.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/246.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/247.jpg

<shameless plug of my product over>

I have been preparing the engine harness for wiring too, which will happen tomorrow.

[Diesel Meister]

Tidy as fup :thumbsup:

Air filter - shipped
Exhaust - ordered (although the seller is a bit slack on responding annoyingly)
Wheels - TBC
Wallet - Defcon 5

lol

[snowtigger]

Oooooh engine lid porn very nice there Paul, well impressed love the look can't wait till I see my lid being done o er missus.

[OlberJ]

Exhaust - ordered (although the seller is a bit slack on responding annoyingly)


:poke2: Come on, spill it.

[Quandry]

This 2 is just begging for an overall respray to make the outside the same quality as the engine bay then... heck I'd even send over 10 squid as a donation towards it!

[antnkel]

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg

Are you planning on doing anything similar for the mk2?

[biteme]

I believe he is, in time - I've told him I want one :)

[Diesel Meister]

Ol - pateince grasshopper lol All will be revealed shortly.

Q - I'd love a respray, together with refurbishment / powder coating of all suspension / chassis components etc. etc., trick suspension blah blah but I had to draw the line somewhere. Some would refer to this as a "chequebook" car. I would call it an "OD Facility Car" lol

I would have more £££ to spare for stuff like bodywork / interior etc. if I was doing the work myself but I lack the talent, time and patience. So I'll settle for owning something imperfect but still fundamentally brutal whilst maintaining sufficient liquidity (just) to run and insure it :)

I still want at least some tasty seats and a nice steering wheel but that may have to be next year unless my numbers come up!

[Paul Woods]

Hi ant, we have a Mk2 version in the early stages of production, it just needs smoothing off and sending to the moulders... one of a hundred side projects i am trying to finish off but it looks good in the early stages, there is a pic on TB somewhere i think.

Today saw 90% of the wiring completed, this corner is where the ECU is going to live, i still need to make brackets for it etc but it's a nice dry corner away from the engine bay heat.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/110.jpg

The ITG air filter now fitted...

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/111.jpg

Engine bay overview...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/248.jpg

Here is our chosen exhaust for this project, a Mk2 HKS system, it is the only one that satisfies all of Dirans requirements, has a low key look about it (ish!) , good silencers on it so shouldn't be too loud (fingers crossed) and has the smallest tips i could find (DM hates big bin lids).

It has a 2.5" inlet on it, which has been our only concession, i know it should be 3" to take full advantage of the 2gr but i could not find anything 3" that ticked all of the other boxes, so this system is the best compromise. I am going to remove the cut out from the drivers side valence and respray it so it looks equal both sides.

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/249.jpg

[Gouky]

Diesel, any plans for a dyno session? I'm curious what the 2.5" exhaust merge does to the overall power band.

I'm sure it'll still have tons of power but I'd like to quantify it.

other than that, the exhaust looks fantastic!

[Diesel Meister]

Sweet - I can go home for dinner now lol

I wasn't sure you had received it - been nagging the seller for some confirmation etc. and actually just sent a rather abrupt email in tandem with a grouchy phone message. I'd betetr smooth that over then.... lol

Will it clear the ground ok in the current position? Fingers crossed it doesn't choke the 2GR too much, although I'll have power to spare no doubt :)

Awesome as usual Paul - keep it coming.

MArc - defo a dyno run in my future :) Keen to put numbers to the £££ but also see how different back boxes affect the 2GR. If I'm hobbled by this one, I'll soon upgrade.

[Paul Woods]

It sits level with the bottom suspension triangle points so about 2" higher than the sump.... it should clear fine.

[snowtigger]

If I can get the second end box of the supplier, I will upload some pics of the system I'm currently trialing.

I don't know if I should have 2 in the centre side by side or at either side?

The only problem is getting hold of the other silencer as I think the join of the can is 3inch and the outlet is 4 but can be tuned by rotating the baffle.

[OlberJ]

Ooooooooooh :popcorn:

[Paul Woods]

I have a few ideas about your system that i can talk to you about tiggs nearer the time.

[Diesel Meister]

Thanks Paul - old one was hanging off for a while, hence speed hump-related paranoia lol

[todd]

Just read this thread and after 17 pages my jaw finally made it to the floor :drool2:


I am going to remove the cut out from the drivers side valence and respray it so it looks equal both sides.

Attention to detail is 2nd to none as usual, top rate work Paul :)

[Paul Woods]

Thankyou Todd :thumbsup:

[Diesel Meister]

Paul - you replied before I could offer the same compliment as Todd! Just to say that this sort of careful consideration differentiates WS from the rest imo :thumbsup:

[snowtigger]

Enough compliments now other wise his head won't get through the garage door lol.

I must admit this is looking mighty fine sleeper material and is a credit to Marc, Paul and anth that this is soooooo good, and should be fantastic for years to come.

Let's see how many queeries Paul gets for mk1 conversions after the vids are posted up.

[todd]

Enough compliments now other wise his head won't get through the garage door lol.

The doors at WS are specially designed just for this issue. :blabla:

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/117.jpg

[Paul Woods]

Today we got the Frankenflanges fitted with new wheel bearings and seals, Marc has done a great job here, this is the hub fitted and complete Mk2 turbo driveshaft inserted....

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/250.jpg

Also today we managed a bit of a first, we did talk yesterday about the possibility of using the camry torque mount shock absorber on an Mr2, well it turned out to be easier than i thought. The shock itself only works in a "pull" fashion, so it has hardly any resistance compressing it like a regular suspension shock, it's resistance is all when pulling it, so it has to go on the front torque mount to do its job properly.

Here it is tack welded in situ, i have adapted the camry top mount onto the Mr2 torque mount bracket and modified the aw11 lower mount with a braced bolt and mounting tube. I think this is great and could end up being the next big mod on all conversions.

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/251.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/252.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/253.jpg

As you know by now this is just the tack welded mocked up stage, it needs removing and painting. I also need to make a nice aluminium heatshield for it because the exhaust will run nearby.

There are a lot of first time mods on this car but it really is coming together now.

[snowtigger]

Is there any need for a lower triangulated bracket on the other side of the damper on the bottom Paul, just thinking of the twist forces on that bolt and spacer?

Or is it too close to the exhaust?

[Paul Woods]

Yes i could do that, providing i can remove the shock easily with another bracket on there i could add that.... i will beef it up more when it gets removed.

[Diesel Meister]

The TB Hive mind works it's magic through the wizard of WS lol

Love it :thumbsup:

I'm no engineer (clearly!) but an engine / chassis damper of any kind is probably a good idea with this sort of torque available. Like the idea of extra bracket as well - I think this whole build will be nice and solid which exactly what I'm looking for - a robust ballistic weapon, with minimal fuss :)

[OlberJ]

I take it the oil filter is somewhere much less in the way of the downpoop on a 2GR then?

I like the look of that torque shock. It goes on the gearbox on the Camry doesn't it? On the front.

[snowtigger]

I like things to be solid not forth bridge solid, But dampers can be funny things not laugh out loud funny.

the hive mind is a quite interesting concept if we all help and give good advice our cars will all benefit, if we give conflicting advice or the wrong advice then we all could suffer, that's why we have a lot of good technical bodies on here like Paul,nod,Marc,jimsr and a lot of others who are very good on electrics, dampers, turbos, cylinder heads, mechanical engineering.

Me I'm the waffler, i'm a good craftsman in the work that I do, I'm not a mechanic or electrican or engineer, I'm well read from cover to cover that's all or as my dad says head full of crap most of it useless but now and again I have a faint nugget a glimmer of an idea, only now and again mind you don't hold your breath till the next one.

[Paul Woods]

The oil filter is a cartridge type on the drivers side of the engine olie, in the rev3 area if you imagine.

Yes this shock is normally mounted in the same place on a camry, just in front of the gearbox. The operation of it means it won't work on the rear of the engine under acceleration as it only has resistance when being extended, it has no resistance under compression... so this means on hard launches it will dampen engine movement as the engine lifts at the front but no damping on the overrun. If you put this on the rear torque mount it would work the opposite way and only damp on the overrun, which is a bit useless.

[Quandry]

very cool! the breakers will be wondering why there is a 'run' on Camry torque absorbers now :)

[tripod23]

i bet paul has a box full - his workshop is like an aladins cave

[biteme]

i bet paul has a box full - his workshop is like an aladins cave

Which reminds me, I need to get my crap out of there! :)

[Diesel Meister]

Great stuff Paul - any idea re. offset at the rear? I can see myself spending some quality time to find apporpriately sized wheels that fit :)

[Goldy]

The oil filter is a cartridge type on the drivers side of the engine olie, in the rev3 area if you imagine.

Yes this shock is normally mounted in the same place on a camry, just in front of the gearbox. The operation of it means it won't work on the rear of the engine under acceleration as it only has resistance when being extended, it has no resistance under compression... so this means on hard launches it will dampen engine movement as the engine lifts at the front but no damping on the overrun. If you put this on the rear torque mount it would work the opposite way and only damp on the overrun, which is a bit useless.

Would there be any benefit in putting them on both the front and rear mounts? :question:

[Paul Woods]

Maybe goldy, that might be overkill though, after all the engine doesn't move that much on the overrun compared to hard gearshifts on WOT.

[Paul Woods]

Today saw the WS TD lid painted, still needs a flat and polish but this is one lovely colour.... we also meshed the vents, which will be done black.

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/256.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/257.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/125.jpg

Also today work started on the Woodsport Aluminium rad upgrade, this is the same kit i developed for my Mk1 V8 and when i have worked out all of the details will be available as a kit for homebuilders. It's 50mm thick and held my V8 at 90 with very little fan use and no air flowing through it.... a thing of beauty in my opinion.

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/258.jpg

[Diesel Meister]

I keep going from: :banana:

To: :jump:

Suffice it to say, I am rather chuffed!

[smccullie]

Now if Carlsberg done mk1 mr2's they would look like this. Think you are going to have some fun with this when its done.

[snowtigger]

i think thats an understatement, how longs the test for any problems has it gone up to 2 weeks now for the 2gr before you hand the keys over, as you may need to iron all the niggles out eh?

nods as good as a wink to a blind man.

[OlberJ]

Swish new pine paint cupboard too eh? lol

[Paul Woods]

A weeks testing same as other swaps tiggs , pine cupboard Olie ?

[OlberJ]

That not a new cupboard in the background?

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg

[OlberJ]

Strange thing to notice i'll admit lol

[Paul Woods]

No it's the same old paint splattered one lol

[Diesel Meister]

Nostalgic Ol? lol

[brianbooth]

I'm usually not a fan of the aftermarket engine lids but that looks very, very nice

[OlberJ]

Would be amazed if that paint cupboard was able to be removed. It's caked in there, big time lol

[Diesel Meister]

I'm usually not a fan of the aftermarket engine lids but that looks very, very nice

Likewise but I think Paul's nailed it with his choice / execution here :)

[snowtigger]

And that lid is the only give away that you have something special in the engine compartment, and the only time you will see it is when you blat past at a gazillion miles an hour.

Any completion date yet Paul don't whant to hassle you mate just whant to come up and see what a good job you've done, and talk about mine?

Pity I only have the weekends free.

[Paul Woods]

Tiggs i think i am about 2 weeks ahead of schedule on this build, i have worked my socks off to get to this stage so quickly so i don't think there is much left. Maybe another fortnight left by the time brakes and other finishing off has been addressed.

Just let me know what day you are coming for a look mate and we can discuss yours.

[Diesel Meister]

when are you going for it Tiggz? We need a brace of Mk1s - too many Mk2 2GRs already lol

[snowtigger]

As soon as I've lubed up my wallet with some ky jelly and have talked to paul about his hob knob addiction, and I stop buying more and more stuff to go on it.

After I've been up to see the main man and we thrash out a date I would like it before Santa pod, but we shall see as Paul has a 3 month waiting list.

[Diesel Meister]

Yeah its tempting to lengthen the shopping list - I'm still trying to resist! My focus for the time being is making sure the cars works as intended, then I'll see about some of the finishing touches I've been thinking about.

Be interested to hear some of wht you have planned assuming it's not top-secret! Feel free to PM me if you prefer mate :)

[snowtigger]

not top secret at all mate, just going opposite of your good self as i have pauls front and rear bumpers and i whant the frunt trunk venting like toffers, i have my rear wing of racerads hehe looks like it fell of the back of the red barons tailplane.

just debating if i should go extended arches front and back and if i should get some fibreglass wings of carbenfibre, as i hate rusty arches then a good rust proofing.
just got to fit my front st205 brakes as i like to stop as well as go, and the mk1 brakes as standard are not the best in the world.

all that lot and a respray i have an idea in my head of how i whant it to look bit hard to explain on here though as i whant it with a matt black centre on the bonnet, roof and engine lid, boot, the lower half of the bumper in matt black just need some one to photoshop a mk1 with pauls bumpers.

[Gouky]

not top secret at all mate, just going opposite of your good self as i have pauls front and rear bumpers and i whant the frunt trunk venting like toffers, i have my rear wing of racerads hehe looks like it fell of the back of the red barons tailplane.

just debating if i should go extended arches front and back and if i should get some fibreglass wings of carbenfibre, as i hate rusty arches then a good rust proofing.
just got to fit my front st205 brakes as i like to stop as well as go, and the mk1 brakes as standard are not the best in the world.

all that lot and a respray i have an idea in my head of how i whant it to look bit hard to explain on here though as i whant it with a matt black centre on the bonnet, roof and engine lid, boot, the lower half of the bumper in matt black just need some one to photoshop a mk1 with pauls bumpers.

I see, you're going for the subtle look eh?

can't wait to see project walletrape :)

[snowtigger]

If you ever meet me in person marc you will see i'm not built for subtley more built for eating large amounts of food and quafing beer, I love going to the u s there I feel lithe and svelte, and when you go in a clothes shop they have your size in every thing "xxxxx fat bastard size sir yes we do that sir".

Have you ever seen the bear getting out of a small car that's me, it was quite funny when I was young 4 of my friends in the rugby club could just about fit in my mini, in the mr2 I have to take my baseball cap off other wise if I go over a speed bump I bang my head on the sunroof.

[Diesel Meister]

tiggz - all good ! I think they'll make a good pair mate.

[Gouky]

If you ever meet me in person marc you will see i'm not built for subtley more built for eating large amounts of food and quafing beer, I love going to the u s there I feel lithe and svelte, and when you go in a clothes shop they have your size in every thing "xxxxx fat bastard size sir yes we do that sir".

Have you ever seen the bear getting out of a small car that's me, it was quite funny when I was young 4 of my friends in the rugby club could just about fit in my mini, in the mr2 I have to take my baseball cap off other wise if I go over a speed bump I bang my head on the sunroof.

I'm 6'3", 270lbs. I know what you're talking about. i had to lower my seat to fit properly in my MR2.

I even test drove an Elise for curiosity's sake. I had to lift my leg to shift into reverse, it was quite hilarious.

[Diesel Meister]

Well I empathise with the squeeze in terms of height (I'm 6'2") but at around ~150lb soaking wet, I imagine my '2 will barely notice!

[snowtigger]

21 stone of relaxed muscle or 300lb or 100kg of relaxed fat, I wanted a drive in an elise but they wouldn't let me on my red leter day as max weight is 18 stone.

Have sat in an élan series 1 and I look like noddy and big ears with my head over the windshield.

[Paul Woods]

Imminent clutcher alert!

[Paul Woods]

Today saw the radiator conversion completed, just needs some jubilee clips and fans fitting.

The right side hose went straight on with no modification at all....

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/158.jpg

The left side hose has been reworked and takes a different path, it also has the rad switch fitted to its own custom made housing....

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/264.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/265.jpg

The top brackets need painting but otherwise it's there....

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/266.jpg

[Diesel Meister]

Loving it! I need to send you some other bits I mentioned but hit me up with anything else that's required :thumbsup:

[snowtigger]

Smack, smackety, smack.

Kerthud as wallet hits floor.

[Paul Woods]

Spent a few days making the downpipes on this one, i can get a much cleaner sweep on the rear bank on a Mk1 2gr swap, and as a result a better Y pipe in my opinion...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/272.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/?action=view&current=DSCN0282.jpg)

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/273.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/?action=view&current=DSCN0284.jpg)

Then fitted to the car....

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/274.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/?action=view&current=DSCN0287.jpg)

Can anyone spot anths contribution?

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/275.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/?action=view&current=DSCN0285.jpg)

[Diesel Meister]

Nice pipes!

I see that anth engages in a spot of illicit tagging now and then. I approve lol

Did you get he tacho correction thingy ok? I expect you'll be needing the wehels and tyres next.

Can't wait for the drive back. I'll bring ear plugs just in case but I'm thinking this will be a nice compromise between noise and flow.

Looks like I'll need to get the suspension bits blasted / coated at some stage too. First things first - running car, then window dressing :)

Thanks for the update - busy as hell but I always check on on this and the other WS projects :thumbsup:

[Paul Woods]

Yeah there will always be bits on the suspension you can improve on, time is our enemy!

Yep anth has a new MR2 template that he has been tagging everywhere in the workshop, i now have MR2 on the back of my head in silver spray.....

Tacho correction unit is wired in, so the next thing is brakes and then we finish off with wheels/tyres.

[Diesel Meister]

No worries - I know you would do it to a high standard if I wasn't pestering you to finish up (well, me and your whole waiting list!). Look on it as potential repeat business (on top of the 6-speed conversion - I'll defo have that). Roadworthiness first - flourishes can come later :)

Either way, the work so far looks excellent and I'm very happy mate :thumbsup:


i now have MR2 on the back of my head in silver spray.....
And there was me thinking it was a birth mark lol

[OlberJ]

Yep anth has a new MR2 template that he has been tagging everywhere in the workshop, i now have MR2 on the back of my head in silver spray.....


He's no changed much then :jester:


That exhaust setup looks pretty sweet. How big is the pipe?

[Paul Woods]

It is 2.5" the whole way olie, DM did not want something too loud, so that ruled out any system i could find with a 3" bore, and this HKS system was the best compromise.... i just hope it does sound fairly quiet after all the effort.

[snowtigger]

After the close shaves with my mk1 I have to go with the American harley owners in saying loud pipes save lives, as I don't think people see our mk1s most of the time.

[Diesel Meister]

Loud is nice except when you don't actually want to get tugged by the bab every five minutes lol

Paul - don't worry, I'm sure it will be fine. I'll be interested to see the dyno results for comparison so TB can get a sense of what works ok on the 2GR. I'm not bothered by headlien power but if it seems a long way down on pete's (freakishly good) results, I'll consider my options.

[snowtigger]

Have seen this skid missile today it's almost as good as mine, admittedly mine only has 4cylinders and 122 bhp and looks a bit mucky in the engine bay department, where as your machine you could eat food of it.

It's that nice Paul really has put a lot of time and effort and thought into this conversion you are one lucky barsteward to have such a nice mk1a, I can't wait till my machine is on the ramps and Paul wields his magic spanner out of his trousers oh er missus.

[Diesel Meister]

lol

Glad you approve tiggs :thumbsup:

[snowtigger]

yes just got to look for some replacement rimage for the rear wheals, i do not know if 16s would fit over the front st205s, or how fat to go with the rear conversion decisions decisions.

you had any luck finding wheels to fit yours yet?

[Gouky]

yes just got to look for some replacement rimage for the rear wheals, i do not know if 16s would fit over the front st205s, or how fat to go with the rear conversion decisions decisions.

you had any luck finding wheels to fit yours yet?

i did the fitment calculations on my car with those exact same flanges and what you want is an 8" wide rim with a 35-42mm offset with 35mm being pretty flush.

the 8" wide rim will then allow you to run 245 or a 255 wide tire. they do fit in the wheel wells... barely.

i used 17x8 +33 rims with 2.75degrees of camber with 245/35r17 tires but those are about 1" shorter than stock height, you'd need to shorten the front tires also to make it look right.

[Diesel Meister]

Ah cool - thanks Gouky :thumbsup:

Tiggs - been looking but not settled just yet as I needed to know whether I was going for 4 stud plus 5 stud (check!) and what offsets I'd need (check!).

I'm really tempted by these guys (http://www.imagewheels.co.uk/pages/wheels_cast.html) but I think that will be a future mod due to lead time / cost. Something off the shelf but light would be good. Also looking at banded steels for the winter - got some for one of my other cars and it cuts down on wheel cleaning between october and March lol :)

16x8in, with 245s should be ok on sticky tahrs :)

[snowtigger]

Trying to find wheels that are in goukys fitment and I like are a pain, I can find 18 x8 inch but alot of the alloys sellers only have 7x17 inch unless I fit 18 rears and 17 fronts was trying to find some 16s that I like but no joy, unless I go custom rims?

I may end up finding some but I bet there in the states or japan?

[Gouky]

Trying to find wheels that are in goukys fitment and I like are a pain, I can find 18 x8 inch but alot of the alloys sellers only have 7x17 inch unless I fit 18 rears and 17 fronts was trying to find some 16s that I like but no joy, unless I go custom rims?

I may end up finding some but I bet there in the states or japan?

Nissan 350z wheels are a perfect fit if you like the styling. they are staggered and cheap. the fronts also have the right size and offset.

[snowtigger]

thanks for the heads up on the nissan wheels will have a gander and see what i can find, the guy in the alloy wheel wharehouse to my mind was talking out of his arse i think he tried selling me some 18s on a mk1 nooo not up sizes go down sizes, i showed him the sizes and offsets and he had not got a clue bloody muppets.

[Gouky]

thanks for the heads up on the nissan wheels will have a gander and see what i can find, the guy in the alloy wheel wharehouse to my mind was talking out of his arse i think he tried selling me some 18s on a mk1 nooo not up sizes go down sizes, i showed him the sizes and offsets and he had not got a clue bloody muppets.

yeah, he must have been full of it. the wheels you need are certainly not outside the realm of normal automotive aftermarket wheels.

[Rosssco]

Nissan 350z wheels are a perfect fit if you like the styling. they are staggered and cheap. the fronts also have the right size and offset.

Just a quick note that only the optional Rays alloys (Track 18" V.1) are staggered. The standard 6-spokes wheels are not staggered. They can be found pretty cheap in comparision to other Rays as Gouky says, and are proper forged jobbies... :cool:

Need to check offset is workable though (ET30 would sit flush)?

http://www.350z-tech.com/zwiki/Wheel_Specifications

[biteme]

My wheels were based off 370z fitment IIRC, it doesn't matter what the car is, providing the PCD, centre bore and the offset are ok :)

[Gouky]

Just a quick note that only the optional Rays alloys (Track 18" V.1) are staggered. The standard 6-spokes wheels are not staggered. They can be found pretty cheap in comparision to other Rays as Gouky says, and are proper forged jobbies... :cool:

Need to check offset is workable though (ET30 would sit flush)?

http://www.350z-tech.com/zwiki/Wheel_Specifications

i'm just talking about the standard 17" ones, 7.5" fronts and 8" rears... let me just go snap a few pictures...

[Gouky]

Alright, here we go. everyone loves pictures.

this car is the reason i made those turbo drive flanges for the MKI :thumbsup: yes, she's not very pretty, but she works hard on the track

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/187.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/188.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/189.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/190.jpg

and here's an interior shot thrown in for giggles (working on the wiring as we speak)

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/191.jpg

[biteme]

That looks like Paul's car after a valet! :thumbsup: great stuff

[Gouky]

That looks like Paul's car after a valet! :thumbsup: great stuff

*confused* a valet is someone that parks cars at fancy locations here. maybe it means something different to you.

either way, i forgot to list front tire size: 215/35r17 and so it's in the same post, rear tires are 245/35r17

both are a bit shorter than stock MR2, but at that size performance tires are much more available. there aren't too many performance tires near the 23.75" stock MR2 diameter.

[biteme]

It also means "a damned good clean" :)

[snowtigger]

Er hold on a mo how have you got 5 stud fronts as well or are my eyes going wonky?

[Gouky]

Er hold on a mo how have you got 5 stud fronts as well or are my eyes going wonky?

:whistle:

yeah, running a mostly MKII suspension. it's not really worth doing on the front end for normal people but I'm trying to work around some racing class rules.

[Diesel Meister]

5 stud all round would be easier in terms of purchase and fitting replacement tyres etc. but I can't do it as I've already got the brakes lol I run with Tyre weld and my trusty AA membership for any "awkward moments" (and hope I'll need neither!) seeing as fronts and rears will not be interchangeable. I might have to keep a spare set as well lol

I think I'll be able to find rears in the right size / offset, although it's likely to mean buying new if I want 16s at the largest.

Marc - track machine looks mean!

[snowtigger]

The problem you find with some of these wheel companys they get a bit confused when you tell them the rear is mk2 mr2 fitment and the front is mk1, they blow a fuse " is it a cut and shut then? You have the backend of a mk2 on a mk1" no you muppet I will explain again argh.
Then they go on about not being able to do a set of wheels in two different fittings as a package deal of 4 cause there different argh, there the same design you pillock I just whant 5 stud 8x17 rears and normal 18 fronts.

[Diesel Meister]

Good suppliers should be able to do deals on pairs of wheels - you might not get the same discount as a full set but you should be able to buy in pairs.

You might get a good deal if you can find a manufacturer / resller who does a make that comes in multiple fitments and just spec 2 x "X" and 2 x "Y". That's why I'm looking at motorsport wheels (compomotives, speedlines, team dynamics etc.)- they tend to come in a wide variety of fitments.

Failing that... who knows. I heard that FD RX7 wheels (16x8) also fit under the arches on a 5 stud rear?

[Paul Woods]

The worlds first 2gr-fe powered Mk1 Mr2 is now running...

mZssEbM-o2E

DM did you get my email about the brake discs matey?

[snowtigger]

It may be a question of getting the install, then getting some cheap 16s/17s mk2 rears and driving to the tyre/wheel place.

I even took garys st205 template with me and they where less than helpfull when I was trying out there wheels, when you try to explain to a spotty young oik that you can't fit them to your car as you haven't fitted the brakes yet, because you can't find wheels to fit you can't drive it round so they can't fit the wheels as you can't fit the brakes and around you go again, "but how did you drive here then without brakes" noooooooooo.

All I can say garys template has become invaluable to me at the moment.

Cool vid of the engine paul this thing is beautiful just as it is, bit quiet for my tastes though.

[Gouky]

I'm not finding a manufacturer/part number right now, but you do have an option for a spare tire:

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/439/dscn27971097494.jpg

you'll probably end up with an oddball wheel size/offset and need to put an odd size tire on it so i'd treat it more like a true spare than an extra tire, but it will keep you going in a pinch.

[Torero]

Great engine note Diran. The engine bay looks a little as if it's had the celebrity treatment as well.

[OlberJ]

Tee hee. Check that.

Bring on the brown trousers!

[Gary Symons]

Nice work Mr W :thumbsup:

[Diesel Meister]

:jump:

Only just seen this! Been mad at work lately, especially today and helping the missus with her study application this eve - but this vid is a fine reward!

Paul - I'll check now and get back to you - couple of Qs about the other bits. Suffice it to say: :thumbsup:

[Moustachio]

It lives!!!!!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

How excited are you DM!!?!

[Paul Woods]

Just getting all of the loose ends tied up now in the engine bay, we have had the engine right up to temp, fans on and off, that alloy rad upgrade really does a superb job.

Engine bay fan is now fitted and wired up and a bracket made for the ECU, i want to add a second bracket to this but it has finalised its position for now...

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/279.jpg

[Diesel Meister]

Sweeeeeet!

You got mail btw :thumbsup:

[geoffmunt]

Good suppliers should be able to do deals on pairs of wheels - you might not get the same discount as a full set but you should be able to buy in pairs.

You might get a good deal if you can find a manufacturer / resller who does a make that comes in multiple fitments and just spec 2 x "X" and 2 x "Y". That's why I'm looking at motorsport wheels (compomotives, speedlines, team dynamics etc.)- they tend to come in a wide variety of fitments.

Failing that... who knows. I heard that FD RX7 wheels (16x8) also fit under the arches on a 5 stud rear?

Speak to Compomotive, they sorted my mate out with a 4 + 5 stud set for his V8 Spitfire:-

http://www.madspit.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/home.htm

HTH

[Diesel Meister]

Yup - in touch them atm :)