View Full Version : 3VZ-FE Twin Turbo Build, finally continued..
Hoping to get some regular updates on here, and finally leave the engine stand club...
So the idea is to use the 3VZ-FE and 2 skyline turbos (Garrets from a RB25) in the boot. Headwork on the 3vzfe heads is finally done, took me a about a decade. Also just cleaned up the front end, new poly bsushes everywhere and new coilovers. Also replaced most of the suspension parts, so new end links, ball joints and tie rods.
Right now im saving up to get my TIG welder checked out, since its not working.. Then i can drop the engine in and get on with the manifolds, exhaust and turbo plumbing.
Some pics to liven things up a bit:
Stripped the frond, and rewelded the radiator support bar, there was quite a lot of rust. Also found some evidence of a collision, thankfully the chassis is straight and the repair easy.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/63.jpg
Put some paint on it
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/64.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/65.jpg
Cleaned the wheel arches and put a fresh layer of bitumen on it + installed the new coilovers
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/66.jpg
Other side, also cleaned and painted the swaybar, and placed new polybushes.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/67.jpg
Right now its just to frikking cold to do anything, no way to heat the garage so its about -5C... :cold:
oh, i remember hearing about this buildup a while back, *subscribing*
Some nice bits going on this one , if you have the engine out how about fitting the turbos on the engine ? Reason i say this is fitting turbos anywhere is a LOT of work but probably less work with better results if you can mount them on the engine out of the car. Anyway will subscribe too :popcorn:
Some nice bits going on this one , if you have the engine out how about fitting the turbos on the engine ? Reason i say this is fitting turbos anywhere is a LOT of work but probably less work with better results if you can mount them on the engine out of the car. Anyway will subscribe too :popcorn:
There isnt a lot of room in the engine bay for 2 turbo's, everything will be so close together it will look like crap and be very hard to work on. This project isnt about getting every last bhp out of the engine, its more of an enginering challange. Thats also wy it takes so long, i want to do everything myself, instead of paying someone to do it for me. Hence the headwork etc. Just think of how it will look to open the trunk bonnet and see 2 turbos and a massive ic :thumbsup:
Fair enough and it will look the nuts when finished , will be very interested to see what route you go with design of exhausts and coolant / oil runs . i feel an epic build coming on :boogie:
Fair enough and it will look the nuts when finished , will be very interested to see what route you go with design of exhausts and coolant / oil runs . i feel an epic build coming on :boogie:
Still looking for a proper way to install the oil lines. I think it would be possible to get some oil lines to the oil pan, but there is always a risk of oil starvation to the turbos. It might be better to run a seperate system with an oil cooler and oil pump in the boot.
Found some more pics
The 2 garret turbo chargers, including stainless elbows. Got these from Ant.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/68.jpg
They need a clean but are in pretty good condition, no shaft play to speak of.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/69.jpg
Also painted the ported heads
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/70.jpg
Ready for valve install, this is already finished and heads are installed on the block but my cam with the pictures on it was stolen.. More to follow.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/71.jpg
And a Border front bumper, dont know if im going to use this yet. Im still looking for a 360 modena bumper, but this one was so cheap i just couldnt let it go..
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/72.jpg
Right now im installing the timing gear, just want the temperature to go up a bit...:cool:
ukpaisley
10-01-2010, 11:52
There are the ceramic turbos ?
If so good for 0.9 Bar boost.
Can't remember, but what are you doing for fuel supply/management?
Will you be upgrading the headgasket?
There are the ceramic turbos ?
If so good for 0.9 Bar boost.
Yep, ceramic it is.
Can't remember, but what are you doing for fuel supply/management?
Will you be upgrading the headgasket?
Right now im using toyota oem gaskets. Im not planning to go above 250 rwhp, so low boost only. When everything is proven to hold up ill rip it apart again and probably go forged etc.
As for the fuel supply, ive already fitted a walbro fuel pump, just need to re-install the tank. Ive also ordered 7MGTE injectors, they supply 440cc/min (as you know ;)) so should be more then enough. Havent heard back from the seller though so might need to re-order.. Anyone good a good adress? Also a FPR to be on the safe side.
As for the management im still in doubt.. Wat I really want is to use a MS board and edis ignition controll with a trigger wheel but that might be a bit to much, considering ive never worked with anything like that. So might end up using the standard ignition system with a more expensive ECU.
I'd drop a line to 3VZ-FE on here. He's using a MS board on his GT35R equipped 3VZ.
Invaluable experience there. He might even be able to help with a base-map and basic setup.
gidonlamboo
10-01-2010, 13:34
A dutch project. Nice!! Are you also on the Dutch forum?
Groeten Gidon
baktasht
10-01-2010, 17:49
Looks good, which turbo's are those? Look a bit small.
First line of the second paragraph Baktash!
baktasht
10-01-2010, 18:12
First line of the second paragraph Baktash!
Ah, totally missed that. That'll teach me to hit reply too quick ;)
A dutch project. Nice!! Are you also on the Dutch forum?
Groeten Gidon
I do have an account on mr2.nl and mr2club.nl but im not planning on updating my topics there. When its close to complete ill copy paste everything :)
ps: Volgens mij heb jij voor mij een jaartje geleden een versnellingsbak meegenomen vanuit engeland, toen je net je auto had opgehaald, of ben ik nu heel erg in de war?
Looks good, which turbo's are those? Look a bit small.
They arent big i know, but dont forget that they will be running on only 3 cilinders each.. Im more interested in the spool time. And since im installing them in the boot i can always upgrade later without much hassle :cool: First i just want to get everything working, and not break it. Especially since im running the NA gearbox and NA gaskets..
They give good performance on an RB25, which is a heavier car ;)
Are they T25 footprints?
Are you planning on putting in a tubby box at any point? Think you might go through the n/a box pretty quick with the TT setup.
T25 ex inlet size even then the turbo hole is about 3/4 the size of the flange hole , unique ex outlet flange shape . other thing to note is the oil outlet is T3 sized at 44mm across the bolt holes .
Will you mount them up high or down low ? If your using the outlet pipes then you may need to mount them higher up , getting the exhaust pipes at the right angle might be hard , had to clock mine a few times to get the best compromise .
decipherer
10-01-2010, 22:20
Nice to see you're still working on this! :) Keep the updates coming this time ;)
Are you planning on putting in a tubby box at any point? Think you might go through the n/a box pretty quick with the TT setup.
Since ill be running low boost at first, i think it will hold up. When i want more power im also going to need a stronger box. I hope the 6 speed D4D Toyota gearbox is availeble and working by then. If not ill have to save up for a e153 lsd box.
They give good performance on an RB25, which is a heavier car ;)
Are they T25 footprints?
I thought it was T3, but ill have to check that...
T25 ex inlet size even then the turbo hole is about 3/4 the size of the flange hole , unique ex outlet flange shape . other thing to note is the oil outlet is T3 sized at 44mm across the bolt holes .
Will you mount them up high or down low ? If your using the outlet pipes then you may need to mount them higher up , getting the exhaust pipes at the right angle might be hard , had to clock mine a few times to get the best compromise .
I will be mounting them high up, the IC needs to go under them so i want to fabricate some mounts to get them just below the bonnet.
Nice to see you're still working on this! :) Keep the updates coming this time ;)
I promise to try harder this time :thumbsup:
gidonlamboo
11-01-2010, 09:23
[QUOTE=hmmmmm;212551]
ps: Volgens mij heb jij voor mij een jaartje geleden een versnellingsbak meegenomen vanuit engeland, toen je net je auto had opgehaald, of ben ik nu heel erg in de war?
QUOTE]
Klopt, ik wist niet meer zeker of jij het was. Leuk dat er weer schot in zit. Ik blijf het volgen.
Come on chaps, English please :)
Sorry mate we were just talking about what a bunch of crazy twats are on this forum, didnt want to embarras you.. :banana:
Gidon came to me to about a year ago to deliver a gearbox he brought from the UK when he was picking up his car. I wasnt sure if it was him so..
Not that interesting was it? :tounge:
Ive been doing some more research and it seems that the seperate oil system for the turbos i was thinking about has some plus points, like cleaner oil, and easier to manage. But there are some downsides.. It need an electric oil scavenge pump (duhh) and these are quite expensive. There are some cheap ones be they havent proven to be reliable, i would need a gear driven pump that would cost in the hundreds of dollars..
So the alternative is using a sandwich plate on the engine block for the feed and use gravity to feed the oil back into the oil pan. The turbos will be high up in the boot so this shouldnt be a problem. But..
Will this be sufficient for both turbo's? I know some people have been doing this but i need to feed 2 and they will be more then a meter away from the oil pan.. Any thoughts on this?
Well i can tell you how i'm doing mine (should say hope to be ) but i'm using a scavenge pump (marine diesel pump) because the turbos are low down .
With a pump you can feed the oil back to engine where you like , some of the STS rear mounts even feed it back through the oil cap, might have some kind of amp meter on the pump so i can see how hard its working
You may want to see Pauls build of the one with turbo in the boot to see how he got around the oil return problem by running it in the chassis around the engine , if you want it gravity draining that is .
For the oil feed im taking a feed out of the blanking plug on the front by the oil pump passing it either through a one way valve (possibly a disc valve, very low pressure to open) or running the line lower than the sump so as to keep oil in the line and not have it drain back, then it pops up into the turbos through y piece . line is Aluminium with compression AN fitting with rubber hoses at the engine and turbos.
hope this gives you some ideas, the seperate oil system is quite a good idea but it would need more monitoring when running and i guess more work and more money. Oil feed from the engine and gravity drain is simple and probably the best route .
Tnx for the input Gary, ill check the turbo build paul did again! What happened to youre build thread? I know you were having problems with the counsil, but i would like to see any pics you have on the oil system?
Anyway, didnt get much done past weekend, but every little bit helps :)
Heads are painted and on the block:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/85.jpg
But then disaster struck... I snapped a bolt holding the intake cam in. Must have been a weak bolt because i had my wrench set at 16 newton like it sais in the manual.. Took my 2,5 half hours and about 6 drills to get it out. Didnt damage the block though so thats good. Now i just need to order a new bolt.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/86.jpg
Both cams in
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/87.jpg
And the other side
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/88.jpg
Now there just one problem, according to the manual i need between 0,13 and 0,23 mm of space between the cam and the bucket. But between most of the buckets theres no more then 0,05 mm.. How is this possible, could this be due to the headwork (3 angle valve seat cut)? Ive reassembled everything to the specs stated in the manual, so dont see a problem there but what else could it be?
Oh and im looking through the service manual, and on page EG-74 it states: cylinder head (recessed head) bolts. I thought these would come with the bolts i orderded on ebay but they arent.. Does anyone have the part number for these? And i also need the part number for the camshaft bearing cap bolts. I dont see any part number in the repair manual,where can i find these?
ThingyNess
12-01-2010, 04:23
That's exactly it. When you get a valve job done, the valve sinks deeper into the head because of the material cut off from the face of the valve and the seat. This makes the tip of the valve stick up higher, which in turn pushes the bucket/tappet up higher, and the shim. This reduces your valve clearance. 0.05mm is too tight, and you will need to re-shim the valvetrain, unfortunately -- Otherwise all sorts of bad things will happen when things heat up and your clearances get tighter and tighter.
With any luck you will be able to swap some shims around and re-use some of the thinner ones that you have on different valves, which will reduce the number you need to beg, borrow, steal, or buy. :)
gidonlamboo
12-01-2010, 12:18
It looks much better now than a year ago :).
The gearbox i taked with me from England was a N/A version?
What happened to youre build thread? I know you were having problems with the counsil, but i would like to see any pics you have on the oil system?
Hope to do a better build thread kinda start to finish, the old one was pissing me off as much as not being able to work on the car . Everything i own is either in boxes or at my old house including the car ,hope to re-start on it within a few months when the dust settles so to speak.
That's exactly it.
With any luck you will be able to swap some shims around and re-use some of the thinner ones that you have on different valves, which will reduce the number you need to beg, borrow, steal, or buy. :)
Ok tmx for the confirmation. But.. right now im not using shims.. It just the springs, valves, spring seats and spring retainers. No extra shims. So even if i use the thinnest shims i can get, they will always put the buckets higher as they are now.
Am i being stupid here or is this a major issue?
It looks much better now than a year ago :).
The gearbox i taked with me from England was a N/A version?
Yep NA model, will need to save up for a e153 with gear extension and lsd, or wait for gouky and paul to figure out how to mate the 6 speed to a 3vz-fe (get on with it! :praise2: )
Hope to do a better build thread kinda start to finish, the old one was pissing me off as much as not being able to work on the car . Everything i own is either in boxes or at my old house including the car ,hope to re-start on it within a few months when the dust settles so to speak.
Aha, well, good luck with that. Starting up is the hardest part, and then going on is the hardest part, and then finishing it, and then the small stuff, and...:crash: :)
Wow very meticulous. Great pics and writeup can't wait to see how this turns out! :)
ThingyNess
13-01-2010, 00:41
I'm sorry, I'm confused here -- have you converted the 3VZ to shim under bucket? I looked through your thread and couldn't see any reference to that.
If not, then you already have shims perched on top of your buckets/lifters. That's how you adjust the valve lash from the factory. I'm not talking about extra shims, I'm talking about removing the factory shims from inside the buckets and replacing them with thinner ones.
Looks something like this:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/93.jpg
http://lagrebilder.no/out.php/i7392_screw.PNG
Yours won't look exactly the same of course, but the same idea. You can usually get the shims out of the buckets by blowing compressed air at them.
If your head has been converted to shimless buckets, then you need to buy new buckets -- they are available in a multitude of thicknesses from Toyota, just like the shims, although they are significantly more expensive.
[QUOTE=hmmmmm;212755]Ok tmx for the confirmation. But.. right now im not using shims.. It just the springs, valves, spring seats and spring retainers. No extra shims. So even if i use the thinnest shims i can get, they will always put the buckets higher as they are now.
Am i being stupid here or is this a major issue?
If not, then you already have shims perched on top of your buckets/lifters. That's how you adjust the valve lash from the factory. I'm not talking about extra shims, I'm talking about removing the factory shims from inside the buckets and replacing them with thinner ones.
Tnx for the info, for some reason i thought the shims were inside the buckets, not on top of them. Ill have a look and see if i can pry them out. It is going to be a pain to adjust though, since some of them have no room left. So i will need to remove the cams, swap some stuff around, and keep trying until i have the right amount of clearance on most of the buckets.. oh joy :icon_conf
Anyhow, for the sake of completion, i also found some pics of the diy headwork. According to Fourveesix is doesnt look bad, and hes a king with a multitool, so i hope ill see some difference come dyno day :angel:
This is how the ports look before i attacked them with a multitool:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/97.jpg
Most of the cutting done, and some sanding:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/98.jpg
And with a bit of extra sanding:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/99.jpg
This took way longer then i thought but in the end it was worth it i think:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/100.jpg
Btw anyone got a awnser for this yet?
Oh and im looking through the service manual, and on page EG-74 it states: cylinder head (recessed head) bolts. I thought these would come with the bolts i orderded on ebay but they arent.. Does anyone have the part number for these? And i also need the part number for the camshaft bearing cap bolts. I dont see any part number in the repair manual,where can i find these?
www.toyodiy.com
epc online for all the part numbers u need
ThingyNess
14-01-2010, 04:41
Well, measure all of your shims with calipers / or a micrometer and write the thickness on the back of them with a sharpie if it's not already stamped/engraved on them. It'll make your life easier as you try to swap them about.
Also, if you have to "compromise" and don't want to buy new shims, focus on getting the exhaust clearances as close to proper as possible. Too little exhaust tappet clearance can cause the exhaust valve to not seat properly as all the parts warm up and expand. Most of the heat is conducted out of the exhaust valve through the contact with the valve seat, and if this doesn't happen, the valve will quickly overheat and weaken and you'll burn it up relatively quickly. Tolerances that are too tight on the intake side will cause your intake valves to be held open and bleed off compression and power, but will likely not damage the engine -- at least not nearly as likely as the exhaust side.
The shims swap with 3sgte engines along with a TON of other Toyota engines that use 31mm buckets, so if you have a spare 3sgte/head laying around you can cannibalize shims from that. Or you can try getting some from a 'u-pull' wrecking yard if you have one closeby and don't want to pay Toyota for them.
Good luck. Re-shimming the valvetrain sucks. Doubly so if your clearances are too tight. :)
decipherer
14-01-2010, 07:48
...The shims swap with 3sgte engines along with a TON of other Toyota engines that use 31mm buckets, so if you have a spare 3sgte/head laying around you can cannibalize shims from that. ...
Are these the same as from a 3sge head? If so, I have a spare engine laying around that you could cannibalize shims from should you want to do that.
www.toyodiy.com (http://www.toyodiy.com)
epc online for all the part numbers u need
Tnx! Went to Toyota to order those bolts but they couldnt find them in their system... :rant:
Good luck. Re-shimming the valvetrain sucks. Doubly so if your clearances are too tight. :)
Tnx for the info! I do want to do it right the first time, ive been spending days on getting the heads just right so im not about to skimp on these parts!
Are these the same as from a 3sge head? If so, I have a spare engine laying around that you could cannibalize shims from should you want to do that.
Tnx for the offer mate! Ill check the shims as soon as im back at the garage and give you a shout if need them! :yourock:
shims:
13753‑74010 T=2.50
13753‑74030 T=2.55
13753‑74050 T=2.60
13753‑74070 T=2.65
13753‑74090 T=2.70
13753‑74110 T=2.75
13753‑74130 T=2.80
13753‑74150 T=2.85
13753‑74170 T=2.90
13753‑74190 T=2.95
13753‑74210 T=3.00
13753‑74230 T=3.05
13753‑74250 T=3.10
13753‑74270 T=3.15
13753‑74290 T=3.20
13753‑74310 T=3.25
13753‑74330 T=3.30
Tnx Gouky, that saves time :praise2: I was just looking them up.
I did find the camshaft bolts i was looking for (i think
11159ABOLT (FOR HEAD TO CAMSHAFT BEARING CAP)90119‑070053VZFE..VCV10..SED40€ 1.37
But i cant find the recessed 8mm head bolts (page E74 of the 3VZFE engine repair manual) Can someone point me in the right direction?
A friend asked me how i installed the valves without the valve install tool he just broke :rolleyes:, he's also on here sometimes even though he doesnt even own a 2, so ill just post it here. And i know you all like pics :)
Installing oiled valves
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/166.jpg
Everything in, might want to cover this side up if its already decked.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/167.jpg
To install the oil seals i used a socket (10mm i believe) and a small hammer. Just use the socket to place the seal on top of the guide bushing and gently tap them on with the hammer.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/168.jpg
Easy as pie, Just make sure to keep it straight and tap gently, and dont switch them around, the intake seals are about 1mm taller then the exhaust seals.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/169.jpg
Now the hard part, installing the keepers can be a bitch, and i think its impossible to do it without a special tool. Ive tried and failed misserably.. So i made this thing.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/170.jpg
It might be a bit crude but it gets the job done :whistle:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/171.jpg
Welded a piece of metal to the back for stabilty, and taped it in not to scratch the head surface.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/172.jpg
Dont have a lot of lights in the garage so tie wraps it is :rolleyes:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/173.jpg
And there it is, easy acces to the keepers.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/01/174.jpg
Ive read something on another forum about installing these without any special tools, has anyone ever done that? Is it even possible?
I was looking for an intercooler with 2 inlets and 1 outlet, and came across this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CXRacing-Intercooler-Twin-Turbo-2in-1out-Mustang-Camaro_W0QQitemZ190329710674QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMot ors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2c5088e85 2
It rated up to 700bhp so should be sufficient. But im not sure about the dimensions. Its 13 inches high and it need to go on the boot floor, and i cant find the boot dimensions in the sw20 repair manaul, does anyone have these?
I'd go out and measure mine if I had it:rolleyes:
can't even remember what an mr2 looks like anymore:banghead:
I'm sure it's higher than that though.
Haven't ya got access to your 2?
I'd go out and measure mine if I had it:rolleyes:
can't even remember what an mr2 looks like anymore:banghead:
I'm sure it's higher than that though.
Haven't ya got access to your 2?
Higher then 13 inches? Wy do you say that? Looks about right on the pics.
And no, my 2 is in the garage, and im working on a 3d model so i need exact data. I know i saw a technical drawing somewhere, but cant find it..
I meant the boot is higher didn't realise you wanted measurements for a model
nice looking intercooler that one but may make getting the exhaust to and from the turbos a pain
Thats exactly wy i need precice measurements. Then i can make a 3D model to see if the design is actually feasible. Considering that i want the IC in the middle i think this is the best IC design, any comments welcome ofcourse.
Not much done the last couple of weeks, did buy some new goodies though:
Gedore 10-100nm torque wrench
http://mechashop.kort.nl/large/4550_00_torque_wrench.jpg
And a small tig welder/plasma cutter.
http://www.kempenlas.nl/images/CT416_LRG%5B1%5D.jpg
Ive been getting some practice on the tig but its harder then i thought. Might end up just spotwelding the exhaust and getting a professionel welder to finish it up nicely.
Now i just need to adjust the valve bucket clearances so i can drop the engine in and start with the manifolds and exhaust.
Finally got some spare hours, and the temperature was actually above freezing, so got some time in.
Sold my brother's 205GTI so now ive got the garage to myself, look at all that space,:driving: i could do a test drive in that! :driving:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/02/123.jpg
Other side, can't believe there used to be 2 cars in here..
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/02/124.jpg
Ripped out the rear suspension and x bar, need to clean these up, paint them, and polybush everything + install new coilovers.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/02/125.jpg
Also removed the cams and buckets (again..) to get the valve clearance right.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/02/126.jpg
Bits and pieces, they will go back in in a couple of days so just leaving them there.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/02/127.jpg
Measured the actual clearance and the shim tickness, now need to calculate what sizes i need and order.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/02/128.jpg
Still to damn could though... Working on the car is no problem, but when youre standing still for over an hour (when working on the valves etc) my back just screams for a heater :help:I know..im a wuss :)
decipherer
17-02-2010, 09:31
Good to see some progress again, but I think you're in need of one of these :mrgreen:
http://www.p-events.eu/Gifs/warmtekanon.jpg
Ive tried heating with a gas burner, but that didnt work, garage is to big and badly insulated. Also looked at electric heaters but to get the temperature to 15C i need a 6KW heater. That will cost me about 1,50 euro every hour.. And the owner cant explain such an increase in the electric bill, since im not officially there :)
As i want my car all black, i am also looking at these babies:
http://www.blackdiamondperformance.com/discs.htm
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/02/163.jpg
Ive already got black wheels (powdercoated BBS 17inch) and black rev2 brake calipers. Now it would be a shame to have silver disc's, that would spoil the look.
Has anyone ever used these things? And are there any alternatives? Since im planning on using bigger disks (supra twin turbi '95 324mm) they are pretty expensive.. about 355 pounds for a pair. Just want to know if they are worth it, would hate to have the look i want but crappy brake performance.
Edit: and on a sidenote; ive just agreed to buy snasbaz's old car, a rev2 turbo with 3vzfe. Going to pick it up 6th of march (1500km roadtrip :) ) Ill will probably be driving it this summer and swapping some parts later on. It has a e153 box with lsd, modified flywheel etc, rev2 lights, clear indicators etc. So i want to get all the goodies on my car and put my rev1 NA bits on the tubby. I cant use the shell for my own project because it a right hand drive model, and it doesnt have a targa roof. I Need a targa roof :)
that black is just a coating, they'll be silver like any other brake pad in the wear area in no time.
I think carbon/ceramic brakes would be your only choice to get that colour, but those will be seriously spendy and if i remember right they won't be worth a damn when cold and then quickly switch to a million times more braking power than you could possibly need on the street when up to temperature.
Bummer, so its just as easy to buy a set of oem rotors and paint or powdercoat them.. (not in the wear area offcourse) Thats gonna look like crap either way..
Wy the hell would anyone pay for black disc's (wich are not cheap) if they dont stay black?...
perhaps for photo-ops?
the black is most likely Fe3O4 it's essentially a form of rust that happens to be dimensionally stable. regular rust isn't which is why it eats away at steel.
they are expensive becuase the black oxide process involves many nasty chemicals which are expensive to dispose of. but the neat part is your brake rotor won't rust. the non wear surface will stay black or maybe switch to purple if it gets hot enough and the wear surface will stay silver from regular use.
Might be worth a mail to them to ask if they stay black?
perhaps for photo-ops?
the black is most likely Fe3O4 it's essentially a form of rust that happens to be dimensionally stable. regular rust isn't which is why it eats away at steel.
they are expensive becuase the black oxide process involves many nasty chemicals which are expensive to dispose of. but the neat part is your brake rotor won't rust. the non wear surface will stay black or maybe switch to purple if it gets hot enough and the wear surface will stay silver from regular use.
That nice intel Gouky! Didnt know there was such a thing as dimensionally stable rust. :ok:
Might be worth a mail to them to ask if they stay black?
I think Gouky is on the money with this but i'll ask them anyway.
decipherer
26-02-2010, 14:28
Instead of the black 'rust' you could also have them zinc plated in black. Zinc plating isn't very expensive and around here they usually charge you by kg. The downside is that usually there is a minimum of e.g. 30kg that you have to pay for. The zinc will also wear off very fast though.
Hmmmmmm ill look into that. Although im not sure if it will still look ok when the wear area is silver and the rest black, i think it might look like tiny little disc's because everything behind it is also black, so then you will just see a small silver strip..
Damned, i thought this was just a case of trowing some money at it :)
Did a bit of research today on the plumbing.
Heres what i need for the turbos:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/02/166.jpg
So i did some ebaying and came across a shop called authentic boosting, they sell all sorts of turbo goodies, and are quite cheap.
Heres what i found sofar:
Turbo Oil Feed Line Nissan Skyline GT-R RB26DETT Twin
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turbo-Oil-Feed-Line-Nissan-Skyline-GT-R-RB26DETT-Twin_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5886017695QQitemZ3 80205364885QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAcc essories
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/02/167.jpg
2x Turbo Oil Drain Flange Garrett T2 T25 T28 TB02 TB025
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turbo-Oil-Drain-Flange-Garrett-T2-T25-T28-TB02-TB025_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem58860d4fc8QQitemZ 380206141384QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAc cessories
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/02/168.jpg
Turbo Oil Drain Pipe tap to Oil Pan (5/8 inch / 16.4mm)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turbo-Oil-Drain-Pipe-tap-to-Oil-Pan-5-8-inch-16-4mm_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem588649fd08QQitemZ38 0210117896QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAcce ssories
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/02/169.jpg
2x Banjo Bolt kit M14x1.5mm -4AN GT GT25 GT28 turbo Water
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Banjo-Bolt-kit-M14x1-5mm-4AN-GT-GT25-GT28-turbo-Water_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1c10252088QQitemZ 120529952904QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAc cessories
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/02/170.jpg
There is however still some stuff im missing.
-3 point adapter for oil feed, with hose and a connector to the oil filter.
-3 point adapter for oil return, with hose wich connects to the oil pan connector (see above)
-3 point adapter for the water feed, and some way to connect this to the engine, will there be enough pressure from the water pump?
-3 point adapter for the water return, and some way to connect to the engine.
Sooooo.. any tips on where i can get this stuff for a nice price?
And any id on the water pressure? It is a new pump btw.
Oh and a question about the Garret GT25 Charger, there is internal waste gate on it, and im looking through the Skyline R33 manual, but it doenst have any specs on the wastegate. So i dont know at how many psi it shuts.
Im also wondering if i am actually going to need the actuator, if i use a proper electronic BOV, can i just use that to controll the boost? I know Paul used an aftermarket wastegate actuator on woozys build set at 2 psi. Is this just for extra protection of the system, incase the BOV fails?
tested mine the other day at work , the wastegates start to open at about 0.5 bar .
Tnx Gary!
0,5 Bar is about 7-8 PSI i think, thats quite a lot for my low blow setup. Maybe ill just leave it like it is and use a bov to controll the boost at the intake.
Anyone know a good place to get fittings/hoses? (see above)
I've never heard of an Electric BOV. :hmm:
Lyndon.
Maybe he means a boost controller?
Maybe he means a boost controller?
But a boost controllers can only increase boost above actuator level, not reduce it. I was wondering if there WAS a BOV type valve that can bleed boost off from the intake piping.
Lyndon.
Like the VSV did on the Rev1/2 turbo I think it was?
Like the VSV did on the Rev1/2 turbo I think it was?
The VSV just bleeds boost off the actuator to increase boost. Block it off and the boost drops to about 0.5 bar (or is that what you meant?)
Lyndon.
Ahh, I thought the Rev1/2 worked differently to the Rev 3+
Must admit, it's been so long since I've owned a stock turbo that I do forget! :)
Ahh, I thought the Rev1/2 worked differently to the Rev 3+
Must admit, it's been so long since I've owned a stock turbo that I do forget! :)
They all work the same from what I remember. I can't recall if they open to make good initial boost and the shut to lower boost at the top end or open up later to increase boost and run a calibrated restrictor like the Nissan's do.
Lyndon.
i hate to bring fiats into this but the 500 arbath has electronic bov , they use it to change how the turbo feels when it comes in and spin it up faster (well thats what i was told on the course) . Its not bolted to the turbo either so maybe it could be used on aem .
i hate to bring fiats into this but the 500 arbath has electronic bov , they use it to change how the turbo feels when it comes in and spin it up faster (well thats what i was told on the course) . Its not bolted to the turbo either so maybe it could be used on aem .
Now that's worth a Worthingtons. I'll check it out and see what it does.
Lyndon.
Maybe im seeing the wrong way around, never owned a turbo (except my diesel turbo work car :) ) so i might be getting this wrong.
To controll the max pressure at the turbo you can use an actuator like the ones i have now on the Garret GT25. Wich opens at around 0,5 bar wich is 7.5 psi.
Since this is probably a bit much for my low blow setup i need to lower this value by switching to another actuator wich will open at lets say 5 psi.
Or i can ad a BOV to vent the pressure build up after the turbo to the atmosphere. Now ive read something about electronic BOV's wich can be made to open for a specific amount of time, or only open when the throttle is closed fast. Now i think this can be made to just let the turbo do his thing (capped by the actuator) and let the BOV decide what amount of boost is vented and wich amount actually goes to the manifold.
Can find the source i had then but something like this:
http://autospeed.com/cms/title_The-AllElectronic-BlowOff-Valve/A_2188/article.html
I'm keeping to the standard wastegates , for me it's adding a problem when you don't need to, trying to get a pair of turbos opening at say 4-5 psi may prove tricky with so little spring pressure .
I'm not sure 5 psi to 7 psi is such a big step as long as the fueling is there and timing ok.
The 3vz is built to last, after a nuclear war there will be cockroaches and 3vzfe's left .
I was wondering if there WAS a BOV type valve that can bleed boost off from the intake piping.
Lyndon.
A recirc blow-off valve maybe able to do it. Normally when they leak boost it'd be viewed as a problem, but I can kind've see a few ways it could be used to control airflow in an intake. Could be handy as hell for controlling midstage pressure on a twincharged setup too hmmmm
Can find the source i had then but something like this:
http://autospeed.com/cms/title_The-AllElectronic-BlowOff-Valve/A_2188/article.html
While I suspect it's use as a boost controller might require some pretty nifty electronics and software to control it, I'm with Alun, I can see the 3" version being handy for twin charger air path control :D
Lyndon
A recirc blow-off valve maybe able to do it. Normally when they leak boost it'd be viewed as a problem, but I can kind've see a few ways it could be used to control airflow in an intake. Could be handy as hell for controlling midstage pressure on a twincharged setup too hmmmm
Exactly, for me this is all still theory, but it would make sense that it is possible.
Anyway did some more digging and came across the boost controller wiki. On the bottom there is a reference to this exact idea:
''There are other outdated methods of boost control, such as intake restriction or bleed off. For instance, it is possible to install a large butterfly valve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_valve) in the intake to restrict airflow as desired boost is approached. It is also possible to actually release large amounts of already compressed air similar to a blow-off valve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blow-off_valve) but on a constant basis to maintain desired boost at the intake manifold. The currently popular exhaust gas bypass via wastegate is superior to creating intake restriction or wasting energy by releasing air that has already been compressed. These methods are rarely used in modern system due to the large sacrifices in efficiency, heat, and reliability.''
Now i think this is interesting, i can understand the heat issue, if the charger is running at god knows how many rpm and building up boost that is later just released without reaching the block, its bound to get hotter. Since it has more work to do the reliability will also be reduced, and dumping pressurized air isnt very efficient :rolleyes:
So its back to the actuator. Therefore i would need an ECU that has boost controll (Hydra of Link probably) and get a solenoid to controll the actuator on the turbo's. Am i missing something?
Found a decent reference pic for a tt system:
http://homepage.mac.com/rib_feast/boost_controller_install.jpg
I can make you a full time closed loop electronic boost controller. ECU based ones tend to be a bit lame (Link's is particularly shite).
When Jon's mappable factory ecu becomes available it will really keep the price down too. In fact the Boost control could be built into the Factory data logger display Jon and I have been discussing with 8 channels of EGT, Pressure,Temps or what ever on top.
Can't see it costing more than £150 all in (including the Solenoid).
Lyndon.
Exactly, for me this is all still theory, but it would make sense that it is possible.
Anyway did some more digging and came across the boost controller wiki. On the bottom there is a reference to this exact idea:
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg
You can save a t-piece by taking the boost reference from between the Inter Cooler and the Throttle body. That way the boost is more representative of the pressure the engine is seeing as you get pressure drops across most matrices and the temps will be better. You don't have to mod your turbo's either which is nice, the Skyline takes it's boost reference in this way for this very reason.
Don't worry about a pressure of 8psi. We ran 10psi on the 1zz & 2zz turbo conversions and they have 11:1 CR ;)
Lyndon.
Excellent info Lyndon, and very interested in the boost controller, cant find anything about it in youre post history though (except announcement), same goes for the factory mappable ecu. Is this on imoc/oc ?
Excellent info Lyndon, and very interested in the boost controller, cant find anything about it in youre post history though (except announcement), same goes for the factory mappable ecu. Is this on imoc/oc ?
Jon.Sole has been working on re-mappable Factory 3S and 3VZ ECU's for some time. I, hopefully, will be interfacing one of my LCD screens to his data stream interface so we can log and watch the factory ecu telemetry. It would be quite easy to add boost control to my hardware (Power Transistor, diode, and resistor) using Jon's data for rpm, air,water and boost, and adding a boost control mode to the screen software. Most MR2 factory Turbo map sensors (Rev1/2 -> 2.2bar Rev3 -> +2.8 bar) could be used or a secondary one added if boost is to go over these thresholds (Link's 5bar Map sensor is a £15 FreeScale MPX5700AP available from Farnell for instance.
My unit can read RPM and Speed signals so it could be a stand alone unit too if using a stand alone ecu.
I get them in to upgrade the 2.5 bar ones in G3 ecu's.
Lyndon.
Ok cool, will be a while before i have everything plumbed in and painted so i'll await further progress on this. If it isnt done by the time im ready, i can always go for the link/hydra option in combination with one of youre boost controllers.
I definitiley wont go over 2.5 bar, no build engine and dont want to let is explode just yet :)
just a reminder that even with the set up you have suggested, unless the spring pressure is changed you can not lower the boost from what the actuator standard is.
i like this thread im watching closely
Tnx mate, and yes i realize that the boost controller can only make the pressure go up. According to some greater minds then myself, 5 psi should be fine, and these open at around 7.5. As mentioned by GaryA the difference probably isnt there to do any damage. I just have to make sure the supporting mods and tuning are ok. Already got the walbro fuel tank in, i want to use the 440cc supra injectors and with some new ignition parts, maybe a FPR and a decent tune i think im safe.
If anyone has any thoughts on this pls let me know :)
This week i wont get much done on the build, ive got peugeot 205 convertible that needs a new starter, ignition and some welding to the exhaust and underside. I need that gone so i have some room for the Rev2 V6 im collecting from the UK this weekend. 1400km road trip, yippy :) (http://forums.twobrutal.com/member.php?u=385)
Tnx mate, and yes i realize that the boost controller can only make the pressure go up. According to some greater minds then myself, 5 psi should be fine, and these open at around 7.5. As mentioned by GaryA the difference probably isnt there to do any damage. I just have to make sure the supporting mods and tuning are ok. Already got the walbro fuel tank in, i want to use the 440cc supra injectors and with some new ignition parts, maybe a FPR and a decent tune i think im safe.
If anyone has any thoughts on this pls let me know :)
This week i wont get much done on the build, ive got peugeot 205 convertible that needs a new starter, ignition and some welding to the exhaust and underside. I need that gone so i have some room for the Rev2 V6 im collecting from the UK this weekend. 1400km road trip, yippy :) (http://forums.twobrutal.com/member.php?u=385)
Just out of interest, those Turbo's are my old ones and have good provenance :thumbsup:
Lyndon.
'provenance', i had to look that up, but yes, they do seem to have come from a good home :)
Just picked the rev2 v6 up from an old tb member, 1500km drive so quite tiring, even more so when you can only go 90km/h...
Anyway, gave it a spirited test drive on a closed factory site and was suprised with the way it slides around, so much torque compared to the na. Im really starting to doubt my decision to take it apart. I might fix the small issues this one has and drive it around this summer (end then take it apart :) )
Some pics of the journey, theres never enough pics in a thread :)
On the way over we only saw this.. Lots of traffic, gray skies and millions of traffic cones, are you guys trying to set some kind of cone record?
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/77.jpg
In the tunnel to calais after picking the car up, with my brother in the daily driver.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/78.jpg
Bit dirty and some cosmetic problems but not bad overall, considering the price!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/79.jpg
Giving it a good wash when we got in holland, just to see whats underneath.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/80.jpg
Definitely needs a good wax..
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/81.jpg
I havent register'd this car so no road pics, unloaded it, lets i idle for about half an hour and gave it some gas up and down the parking lot, then stored it.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/82.jpg
Led lights in the front, havent seen this and not sure if im keeping it but looks like it was installed properly.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/03/83.jpg
Video after the break!
gidonlamboo
14-03-2010, 10:36
Nice car. Have fun with it :boogie:
dgh938peg
15-03-2010, 16:39
LOL - your brother drives a car with P FISTER written down the side :D
Haha i know, and its actually my car, my brother is in the passenger seat :)
I get a lot of shit for that name, but mostly from people that drive crappier cars then my megane so fok 'em ! :)
For some reason i didnt notice i had actually gotten a mk1.. There's rust everywhere on the left rear side near the antenna. Looks like a previous owner decided to place the antenna on the roof and not close of the hole of the original. So water got in the bottom between the panels and created some havok..
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/04/35.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/04/36.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/04/37.jpg
And this looks like the car hit something on the bottom.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/04/38.jpg
So started with my most used tool:
:woc:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/04/39.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/04/40.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/04/41.jpg
Going to the scrapyard tomorrow to get some sheetmetal, never fixed body panels so this is going to be fun..not.. :help:
That's not bad! U want to see the rear of the Mk1 i've just replaced the arches on, it was 100 times worse than that.
Nice feeling cutting away the rust to be left with clean, solid metal though aint it :)
Got some time yesterday to start on the wheel arches. Considering ive never did any bodywork before and cant weld if my life depends on it, i did alright :)
Welded in a plate to fill up the hole and put some sealer over it, this part cant be seen from the outside so doesnt have to be super neat.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/04/44.jpg
Then got to work on the arch, used 5 pieces of sheet metal to get the angles right. I dont have any tools to properly bend metal so this was the only way.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/04/45.jpg
Welding this to the old body was a pita, because i was to carefull when i removed the rust. I should have taken of a bit more to get some thicker metal as a base to weld the arch on. Now the ends were so thin it melted away at even the lowest settings on the welder. :drama: Finally got it on but did get some pinholes and cracked welds.. If i remove everything and try it again i probably wont get a better result so decided to use some fibreglass reinforced paste to make sure its waterproof and wont crack. This stuff can also be used for chassic reinforcements so should be fine.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/04/46.jpg
Needs some sanding but this part also cant be seen when the rear bumper is on so :roll: Was a good pratice run though, and ive learned its definitely easier to remove more and get a proper base then try and work on 0.1mm old steel.
Finally got the shims from Toyota, 90 euro's worth... I asked if they were made of platinum, but they werent, just very overpriced..
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/04/108.jpg
Not anything to do with the build but wanted to share anyway, 17 inch bbs with proxis tr1 tires on the uk mk2.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_YosKYON5WSA/S8dOdm-OaQI/AAAAAAAAAkY/HXqNmiZc69A/s800/STH70913.JPG
like them a lot , what width are they . Fill the arches nicely
215, with spacers (25mm i think, got them with the car). Original eibach shocks with lowered springs. Fills them just right i think, not to sure they wont rub though, havent given it a proper test drive so i hope i can keep them on.
mk3supra
17-04-2010, 21:57
I also need help on the oiling setup for my turbos...I don't mean to thread jack but does anyone know the name of Paul Wood's TT V6 thread?
a rusty mk2, keep it comin!, good work.
I also need help on the oiling setup for my turbos...I don't mean to thread jack but does anyone know the name of Paul Wood's TT V6 thread?
Paul never finished his, dont even know if there ever was a thread, there was a plan, and some headers made out of steampipe, but thats about it i think. You can check 3VZ-FE's build though, hes alot further then i am: http://forums.twobrutal.com/showthread.php?17257-V6-TT-Project
a rusty mk2, keep it comin!, good work.
Tnx and will do, im doing this one right, so wont start on the engine untill every bit of rust is gone :)
Wont start on the engine untill every bit of rust is gone :)
Forgot to close the argon bottle last time and now its empty.. So a no go on the bodywork, back to the engine it is :)
Finally got all the shims in and everything is within spec now. So installed the cams, hopefully for the last time :fingersx:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_YosKYON5WSA/S8tfhig1tXI/AAAAAAAAAlE/WMdFJfE7nFA/s800/STH70914.JPG
Since there was still sand in the cam covers, i had to drill out the plates in the covers, then clean them up and redrill some holes to re-attach them.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_YosKYON5WSA/S8tffzsb2YI/AAAAAAAAAk8/LkDrwgV43ww/s800/STH70920.JPG
But FAIL... Drilled over 20 holes without any problems, and affcourse on the last hole..
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_YosKYON5WSA/S8ti31TK6lI/AAAAAAAAAls/YbQdaPYldUs/s800/STH70924.JPG
Any idea on the best way to repair this? I cant weld alu so that's out, maybe some sort of block repair paste?
dgh938peg
18-04-2010, 21:08
Yeah, a 5 min job to someone with a DC Tig plant. Find yourself a fabrication firm that can weld aluminium and get them to "spot" it in for you... If you were a little closer than Holland i'd do it for you :)
Got one with the wheelarch and its almost done, needs some sanding and cleaning up but looks ok. Now i need to fabricate the sideskirt, very hard to weld because the metal i use is 1mm but some of the bodywork is much thinner. On some spots i just burn holes, on the lowest settings.. The metal is so thin that it melts away as soon as the high frequency kick in, like welding coke cans :) But got a basic form after some more cutting and lots of swearing.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/04/166.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/04/167.jpg
I want it to look as close to oem as possible, so tried to get the same basic shape and the little corners. The inside of the wheelarch therefore needs to be welded to the outer body panel. There not alot of space here to weld, or maybe my welding helmet is too big :) But got a start anyway.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/04/168.jpg
Just got some goodies from the states. Didnt get hit with import charges so im a happy chap :eusa_clap: Now just waiting for the inline oil filters and garrett oil en water connectors.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/07/109.jpg
Also painting the cam covers, thinking of painting the entire engine and bay black, with some bronze/copper details.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/07/110.jpg
Paul Woods
28-07-2010, 07:16
I strongly recommend you open those cam covers up with much bigger breather fittings, you will see too much back pressure on the stock breathers and possible oil leaks. Tap them to a much bigger size or have some weld on fittings added and add a decent oil catch tank again with the largest breather pipe diameter and fittings you can get away with.
Just speaking from experience.
Tnx for the heads up paul, will look into that asap! The experience you talked about, whas that Johnny's build? I thought i read somewhere he also needed cam breathers, didnt think i need it with my low blow setup but better safe then sorry!
Paul Woods
29-07-2010, 06:56
Yes Johnnys build showed us the stock breathers just won't get rid of the blow-by quick enough, once opened up it was fine, so you definately need to consider this.
Even though my setup isnt as mental as Johhnys i will definitely try this. Oil catch can's on ebay are cheap as chips and its not a lot of work to install so wy take any chances?
Tnx again for the tip paul!
Found the right rivets to reconnect the plates in the cam covers
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/9.jpg
All connected again, and tapped in some new seals, also found out the 'complete' gasket set i got of ebay contains 5 cam seals, so missing one..
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/10.jpg
Dont think you can actually see this bit but im painting it anyway :rolleyes:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/11.jpg
Cam covers painted in high gloss black.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/12.jpg
Cam breather number 1. Looks like there are some metallic flakes in the paint, wich is odd there shouldnt be, but what the hell, looks ok.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/13.jpg
Cam breather number 2, they look quite big too me, but probaby gonna go up to AN12 just to be sure.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/14.jpg
And ofcourse something went wrong with my last order.. On the bottom there is a metal weld on AN6 connector, but i ordered a AN8. So now i dont have the connector to connect the oil drain hose from the turbos too the oil pan. So i hacked up a AN8 hose connector, hoping to weld i to the oil pan. But then i realised this i alluminium, wich i cant weld..
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/15.jpg
Engine looks good with black covers , are you doing all your pipe work with AN fittings /braided hose ? You can't beat it for looks but my God cutting braided hose and getting the fittings on is a right old pain in the back side .
These are the sump fittings i used , 2 of these in the front of the sump one for turbo drain the other as a crank breather .
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Turbo-Oil-Drain-Pipe-Oil-Sump-Turbocharger-HKS-/370415460463?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item563e7b606f
Engine looks good with black covers , are you doing all your pipe work with AN fittings /braided hose ? You can't beat it for looks but my God cutting braided hose and getting the fittings on is a right old pain in the back side .
Yes, im using the AN fittings all over even on the places you cant see :) Just like the look of them, and they are secure and re-usable so well worth the money i think.
Opened up the turbochargers to check the compressor wheel, looks like new so im not sending it to the shop, just going to install as is. I am thinking of having them ceramic coated but i will consider this on the final build up.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/16.jpg
Also did some more painting, the intake thingy this time. I have started work on the inlet manifold, trying to polish it but its taking even longer then the porting :icon_mad:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/17.jpg
Then the tricky stuff, making the mounts for the turbos. I want to mount them on the 2 beams that run through the trunk, so i can get the air from the sides, near the ventilation holes just after the wheel arches. Something like this:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/18.jpg
This makes the piping quite difficult but it will look sick, and who need a trunk anyway :eusa_whistle:
Since the chargers are identical i needed to undo the compressor side and turn it 180 degrees to make the exhaust and intake ports face the same way. Wich also means i need 2 different mounts.. So mount nr 1 started out as scrap metal i had lying around, this stuff is painted and rusted so needs a lot of cleaning, but its very strong en free so my :MK9523tn:is making overtime :icon_smile:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/19.jpg
And ended up like this:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/20.jpg
My welds arent great but they are improving, this thick stuff works so much easier then the thin plate on the wheel arches :thumbsup:. Here is the mount installed, im still using the fastening brackets from the charger so i can remove the charger with the compressor side still connected to the exhaust side.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/21.jpg
Ive used 2 bolts on the bottom and 1 on the side, i think this will hold just fine but may end up welding some extra bracing in the trunk. Here you can see the side bolt and the vacuum canister wich is welded to the inside of the mount.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/22.jpg
And mount number 2. This on is a bit more straight forward, by turning the compressor side the mounting holes are on top so here ive used 3 bolt that are used to clamp the 2 sides of the charger together, so now they serve a double purpose.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/23.jpg
And after some cleaning. Still need to round of the corners and weld on the vacuum canister for the wastegate but you get the idea. Both mounts will be painted in high temp satin black. Paint should hold fine according to the shop, if not ill powder coat them.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/24.jpg
And last but not least i managed to weld the oil return line connector on the oil pan. I cheated a but and used some metal washers to weld it on (the connector is alu, wich i cant weld), but it is airtight so should be fine. Also painted it with some undercoat sealing.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/25.jpg
And thats about it, my holiday got canceled so finally the oppurtunity to put some time in this project :icon_biggrin:
On question remains: i was planning on combining the 2 chargers on a 2,5 inch pipe to connect to the IC, but as is stands this will mean on of the chargers will get a very short pipe to the IC, and the other one will have to cross the entire trunk. This ofcourse isnt ideal, and will likely get me slower throttle response, but is it an issue of will the difference in lenght be unnoticeble?
One solution would be to get a new IC, one with 2 inlets and 1 outlet but money is running out so i would ofcourse rather use the one ive got.
All shared thoughts are appreciated! :thumbsup:
Now thats a place i never thought of , if you can get the exhaust to them ok it could work quite well. not sure about the intercooler , having them on each side will mean one pipe is longer than the other even if you had 2 intercoolers unless you could feed the manifold in the centre so the system was symetrical .
I would just see how it goes with the one you have , you could always join the pipes in a y then feed them into the cooler but that would be more pipework .
At the end of the day i think exhaust gas speed and temp, pipe sizing will be the key to a good system .
Now twin charge coolers in the each side of the boot would be nice with a huge rad up front :eusa_drool:
Already looked into modifying the ic, but there is now way to ad a port in the middle, the rows go straight from one side to the other.
Twin charge coolers would be cool ( in more then one way ), but definitely overkill :)
Got a couple of hours in today so progress :thumbsup:
Both mounts finished and painted (heat resistant ofcourse)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/37.jpg
Welded in the 2 mounts in the boot to mount the chargers to.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/38.jpg
Left on in situ:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/39.jpg
En right one:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/40.jpg
Looks like plenty of space for the plumbing but its going to be tight as hell. I can turn the exhaust outlets a bit further to the rear but i will have to wait till the exhaust parts arrive.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/41.jpg
Still not sure on the intercooler though.. I can make the feed lines neater if i use different lenghts, or make it equal lenghts and get a messy boot..
Heres what i mean, any ideas on this?
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/42.jpg
decipherer
12-08-2010, 22:47
Just some suggestions as I honestly don't think it will matter much if the pipes aren't equal length.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/1.png
The outlet for the intercooler will probably be better on the other side? unless you're changing the inlet manifold on the engine?
the problem is you're using the wrong intercooler, use something like this: http://www.treadstoneperformance.com/product.phtml?p=312&phot_key=636
snowtigger
12-08-2010, 23:20
by christ that is a beautifull bit of intercooler finding there marc, treadstone hmm bourne identity anyone.
other companies make similar intercoolers, they are designed for twin turbo applications.
Mmmm nice intercooller... would deffo be worth considering as it would significantly reduce the pipework and make installation simpler!
Just some suggestions as I honestly don't think it will matter much if the pipes aren't equal length.
The outlet for the intercooler will probably be better on the other side? unless you're changing the inlet manifold on the engine?
Correct, other side is better, just a schematic though :) I hope the equal lenght wont matter.
the problem is you're using the wrong intercooler, use something like this: http://www.treadstoneperformance.com/product.phtml?p=312&phot_key=636
Ive looked at these, and found a cheaper variant on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CXRacing-Intercooler-Twin-Turbo-2in-1out-Mustang-Camaro-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ190341256784QQptZMotorsQ5f CarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
But... I already had this intercooler so its a bit beyond that stage. And even the cheap ebay IC will still be about $300 without taxes, wich i could use quite well at the moment :)
Mmmm nice intercooller... would deffo be worth considering as it would significantly reduce the pipework and make installation simpler!
Pipe work & installation is not a problem, if i can save $300 by doing some extra work thats fine by me, but its more the performance that worries me, i have now idea what the extra (and maybe un-equal) pipe length will do to performance.
snowtigger
13-08-2010, 18:12
Sell the one you've got on eBay buy the one you need jobs a goodun.
if you want cheap get an sti intercooler and blow through it backwards :-) think tiggs answer is probably the way to go
First ive got to get the engine in so i can figure out the plumbing, then ill reconsider the ic layout, tnx for the input guys!
Ive got 2 sets of rims and im still deciding wich ones to keep. These are Lexus is200 rims, with some bad damage. Curb damage, water damage, scratches, the lot..
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/47.jpg
And after some sanding it turned out a bit better. Doesnt have to be perfect, im having them sandblasted and powdercoated. (black ofcourse )
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/48.jpg
These are the other rims, this car is being sold after i fixed some stuff (axle cover, lights, rad fan, exhaust gasket). So im either keeping the is200 rims, or these bbs's.
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg
nice work on the install so far, what are planning to run on the boost, are you adding charge cooling later or not interested?
Tnx mate, as Gary mentioned having 2 smaller chargecoolers in the boot would be pretty mental, but this will be a low blow setup. The engine can handle quite a lot of boost presumably, but i dont think anyone has ever gone to the limit yet. My goal is to get 300 horses on the crank. Since the heads have been ported and i will be using a proper ECU and remove the y-pipe etc, the engine should be turning out around 210-220bhp, wich would mean the turbos only have to add 80. I think anything above that will crunch the NA gearbox, and risk the engine internals. When everything works out, i might push it a bit further but lets get it working first :)
i was having a look on mine , it's not an easy one to come up with an elegant solution . I think yours would be great with a dual in and a single out seeing as you might change the inlet . have it up high flat against the boot lid with a single pipe going straight into a centre feed plenum . Another crazy idea would be get two little intercoolers mount them infront of the turbo inlet so the inlet air cools them have one pipe going up one side and the other going to a another throttle body mounted in the acis plate ......... see said it was crazy :eusa_doh:
Haha you're right, that is pretty crazy :)
I like the idea though of modding the inlet manifold to centre the feed. Damn you,now ive been sanding the damn thing for days just to cut it up :eusa_doh:
Unfortunately the inlet plenum is alu, wich i cant weld..
i've seen a similar cooler installed in the boot with bike fans, i understand you want to feed it from the rear side panels which is a fair idea, just for thoughts here (http://www.mr2mk1turbo.co.uk/diary36.htm)
That looks very cool, like the idea and am going a simular path actually. Im feeding the 2 turbos from the side panels, not the ic. I want to cut a hole in the bottom of the trunk and feed them with an underside scoop, much like the build in youre link. I wasnt planning on using fans on the ic however, but mounting them on the trunk lid, like paul did on woozys build. I cant use the rear to extract air because ive got something else planned for that space.
Just read through all 13 pages! fantastic thread so far, and Kudos to all on the club helping out with Ideas.
Most project threads dont show the problems along the way, im glad you have. its a shame your so far on, as if you had made video footage of everything and burnt it too dvd, people like me would pay you good money for it :)
keep up the great work, and keep us posted :)
Just read through all 13 pages! fantastic thread so far, and Kudos to all on the club helping out with Ideas.
.....
Tnx mate! I like to have the problems in the thread too, so it becomes a complete story and not a bunch of updates. There is a lot of stuff i still need to figure out, mainly because this is my first project, so i have to learn this stuff as i go. Never thought i would be able to rebuild an engine or weld a wheel arch, but with the help of everyone here and the google-o-matic-2000 im getting there.:beer:
A video diary of this would be a lot of work, and lets be honest, a few people would buy it, en then just copy it :) Dont get me wrong ive never paid for a dvd in my life, but it just wouldnt be worth it. It would have a 32 hour blooper special i think. With stuff like sand in the engine, welding through your car instead of on it, breaking windows instead of removing them, letting a car fall of its stands (twice) :hidesbehi: :laugh2::laugh2:
mk3supra
28-08-2010, 16:36
JOC....is it possible to run a front mount IC on an MR2? or is it just too low to fit piping?
Definititely possible, seen it done a couple of years back. I think that guy installed it in the old AC cooler location. Dont know if it ever got finished but i think the route back to the engine would be too long. Maybe improved cooling but turbo lag would increase and its more work, so no real advantage i can see. Im using the boot anyway to mount the turbos so it was a no brainer.
Didnt get much done lately, too busy at work. Then i finally had some time and this happened...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/09/73.jpg
Major bummer as these arent very cheap to come by. Problem is that the glue used to seal the windows is 20 years old and very hard to cut through, so after 2 hours of fiddling it finally shattered. By then i was to pissed of to do anything else..
After trowing some stuff around the garage i decided to do some little jobs that couldnt fail.. :) Put some filler on the rebuild fender, just need to sand it and smoothe it out. Didnt use enough hardener though so takes a while before i can sand it down. None of this area will actually be seen once the fenders are on but might as well do it right, and its a good exercise i guess.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/09/74.jpg
Oh yeah, also cut away the exhaust protector. Most people just bend them towards the underside but its pretty thin so came of no problem. Removed the exhaust mounting points (properly rusted, used 43liters WD40) and gave everything a coat of nasty undersealing. No just need to paint the gas tank (has some rust spots) and then i can mount it back under the car, then just one more coat of sealer and im done with it.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/09/75.jpg
Also got the inside of the right fender welded up, and put some glasfiber past over it to make sure its waterproof and strong enough. Forgot to take a pic though..
Next week im cleaning out my garage at home and get all the little parts i need to build up the engine, so i can finally get it in the car and start the plumbing.
venomconcepts
26-09-2010, 18:20
very interesting thread
Didnt get anything done due too work but there is always time to get new toys! Garage meet heater:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/10/74.jpg
This thing works on diesel fuel, and generates 20KW. Its also properly loud so needed a thermostat to shut it of once in a while. The store sold them but thats too easy so i made one up out of some stuff i found at work:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/10/75.jpg
Only tested it for a short time due too lack of time, but it did get temp up from 5C to about 16 in just 20 minutes so im happy. During those 20 minutes i did do something usefull, the final wheelarch got cleaned and coated:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/10/76.jpg
I know..nothing too exiting but work and personal stuff (helping my parents set up a diner) is eating away all my free time, hoping for some better progress in the next 2 weeks.
thats a great way to control temps. restoration work pays dividends, and takes skin..
FAIL, not just fail... major fail..
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/11/47.jpg
Just found out that i installed the intake cams wrong way round... Wanted to install the timing belt but here whas nowhere to mount the camshaft gear, see here:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/11/48.jpg
So i had to take the cams out again, and also remeasure the valve shims, i wasnt sure the 2 cams were exactly the same. They were but still threw some shims around to get the clearance perfect.
Also took a look at the gas tank, as soon as i picked it up the paint came of so sanded down the worst parts, ready for paint.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/11/49.jpg
Fender still needs work but its beginning to look like something
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/11/50.jpg
Cleaned up a shitload of bolts, wirebrush champion 2010 :cool:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/11/51.jpg
Then refurbed the oil pump, new seals etc. installed it + new water pump en inlet pipe, and some pulleys. Then found out my cam belt is to long.. Probably an AC version. Does anyone know the proper size to order?
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/11/52.jpg
When the engine is done, i can put it in the car and work can begin on the plumbing.
Paul Woods
08-11-2010, 06:52
The belt you need is a 6 rib 950mm one
That whas quick, tnx paul!
i dont think you are alone in that one , i think we've all made little mistakes when it comes to the v6 :) as long as it wasnt costly .looks good tho
dgh938peg
08-11-2010, 09:18
This baby here :)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/11/53.jpg
Local parts shop has 6 rib 948mm one laying around for around €30 so thats solved.
Also looking into a flywheel, ive got the camry auto wheel, and a XTD stage 3 NA clutch. Im thinking about ordering the XTD stage 3 Turbo clutch with lightweight flywheel, so i can mix the clutches to work with the turbo flywheel. Clutch+flywheel is the same price as a fidanza flywheel and about the same weight. I dont think these flywheels have been tested by the mk2 crowd but im willing to take the gamble.
Clutch:
http://usera.imagecave.com/aimcoclutch/website/set1.jpg
Flywheel:
http://usera.imagecave.com/aimcoclutch/flywheel/MR2_Flywheel.jpg
But i might wait for a bit, as im also very interested in the lsd s54 gearbox for sale here on TB. Just waiting on some funding :)
you can actually bolt the heads on the wrong side also, i did that and also found the cams at the wrong end.
decipherer
08-11-2010, 22:24
Looking good there! Nice to see some progress now and then :) Will you have the bolts zinc plated?
This baby here :)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/11/53.jpg
Found the exact same brand, 948mm, so close enough :)
you can actually bolt the heads on the wrong side also, i did that and also found the cams at the wrong end.
That whas the first thing it thought, the drawings in the manual arent very clear so had a hard time figuring out if i bolted the heads wrong way around or just the cams. Could you still use the headgaskets after that?
Looking good there! Nice to see some progress now and then :) Will you have the bolts zinc plated?
Thats the right way to describe it.. now and then :) work and lack of funds get in the way sometimes..
I dont think ill get the bolts zink plated, depends on how they hold up. When everything is done mechanically, incl all the plumbing etc, everything has to come apart again so i can paint the car. So i might end up plating some parts then.
Ive tesetd the XTD flywheel on my mk2 Tubby. Haven't tried a Fidanza flywheel to compare the difference, but I did notice a difference between the original and the XTD one. I was quite pleased with the result and also the flywheel looked and felt really nicely made.
you can still use the gaskets again, you didn't blow them so why not, they wont be embedded or stuck on surfaces yet this early.
the head are symetrical in rotation , when assembling you can never know by just looking underneath because all the holes line up!, toyota should have put a dummy pattern into the dowels (different sizes) for that reason of mistaken assembly, its common practice with symetrical tooling.
Be a bit careful regarding zinc plating of fasteners...
Tnx Tony, never would have known why i whas hit in the face bij a 12mm bolt..
Ive tesetd the XTD flywheel on my mk2 Tubby. Haven't tried a Fidanza flywheel to compare the difference, but I did notice a difference between the original and the XTD one. I was quite pleased with the result and also the flywheel looked and felt really nicely made.
Alrighty then, always good to have some input on new products, ill guess this is a go then! Just asked the ebay seller and it's $88 in shipping charges, wich is a bit steep but still cheaper then getting one here in Holland..
the head are symetrical in rotation , when assembling you can never know by just looking underneath because all the holes line up!, toyota should have put a dummy pattern into the dowels (different sizes) for that reason of mistaken assembly, its common practice with symetrical tooling.
Couldnt agree with you more! I had to take a long hard look before i whas convinced it whas the cams that were installed wrong way round, and not the heads!
decipherer
10-11-2010, 21:47
Be a bit careful regarding zinc plating of fasteners.
You absolutely do not want high tensile fasteners zinc plated as theyll fail in service.
Buying OEM stuff where its already plated is fine as OEM's use processes that maintain a very tight metallurgical control over how theyre plated, something youre unlikely to find at a local plating firm doing brackets etc.
The zinc causes fracture due to hydrogen embrittlement, not worth the risk to have a bolt head shoot off and either hit you or completely destroy your engine.
You can replate fasteners up to 8.8 grade but dont do any over that.
Thanks for the heads up, I'll be replacing some bolts on my car as I had most of them zinc plated :p
Put in some hours in the garage today. Most time whas spend on cleaning, cleaning and then some cleaning :eusa_dance:
Most parts are either rusted or just fubarred, even the alluminium is corroded, so got out the wirebrush and a drill + multitool. Started of like this:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/11/76.jpg
Started by cleaning up the connectors:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/11/77.jpg
And the rest..
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/11/78.jpg
Also need to fix the cambelt cover, its pretty badly scratched
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/11/79.jpg
Sanded the scratches out and threw some paint on it
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/11/80.jpg
Also managed to get the cam belt on. Its the first time i did this so hope i did it right. The notches on the cam puleys line up after each two revolutions of the crank so according to the manual should be ok.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/11/81.jpg
Installed the water bypass pipe, and some other random stuff, knock sensors, fuel rail etc
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/11/82.jpg
Cleaned up the oil filter base, still dont know what to do with this yet, might keep the oem stuff or get an oil filter relocation kit.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/11/83.jpg
Offcourse there also had to be some more fail.. When i whas painting some bits, i forgot to keep the oil pan out of the way. So that needs a redo.. :icon_neutral:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/11/84.jpg
Not alot happening, just painting and cleaning some parts. Finally decided on a paint scheme, it going to be gold :) Mostly black (interior and exterior) but with some gold/copper details.
Started with cleaning up and painting the fuel rails and alternator.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/12/13.jpg
Alternator was a bit of a problem.. some of the fins were bend and it wouldnt turn properly. I dont have a bank press so made a tool (similar to the one in the manual) to open it up. I'd already painted it but after some inspection it seems it cant be repaired, so i need a new one.. Called around a bit to some shops but the cheapest i could find was nearly 200 euros :(
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/12/14.jpg
There are some alternators on ebay but not in holland.. And the shipping overseas on this kind of package is brutal so i guess ill have to get a new one.. bummer
the_torquefather
10-12-2010, 15:18
Great work there, this is going to be one clean build! Cleaning is a pain to do but it'll look worth it once its completed and I imagine loads of people will want to see in that engine bay once they twig that its a twin turbo v6!
Project looks great, I used two screwdrivers to get my alternator apart rather than a posh press! If it is corrosion you can lightly sand and laquer the core it to revive it.
you can get shipping to holland for medium heavy packages for not that much, I sent over a 3 phase 1.1kw motor (approximately a little bigger) plus other industrial electronics totalling about 22kg, for about £17.50. using a parcel courier. If you are interested and can find an alternator near close to BN26 or BN27, if you have the time to do it slowly (on hobby hours) maybe someone is selling close by i dont mind shoving something in post.
you can get shipping to Holland for medium heavy packages for not that much, I sent over a 3 phase 1.1kw motor (approximately a little bigger) plus other industrial electronics totaling about 22kg, for about £17.50. using a parcel courier. If you are interested and can find an alternator near close to BN26 or BN27, if you have the time to do it slowly (on hobby hours) maybe someone is selling close by i dont mind shoving something in post.
Tnx Adam! Ill email some scrap yards to see if i can get this sorted!
Great work there, this is going to be one clean build! Cleaning is a pain to do but it'll look worth it once its completed and I imagine loads of people will want to see in that engine bay once they twig that its a twin turbo v6!
Thats the idea, i want the engine bay to look as good as the outside of the car. Im not in a hurry so im trying to make everything perfect!
Project looks great, I used two screwdrivers to get my alternator apart rather than a posh press! If it is corrosion you can lightly sand and laquer the core it to revive it.
Im afraid its far beyond that, there are some fins broken, and the others are bent. There also a lot of scratches and dents on the inside, no idea what they did with it but it looks properly fubarred..
On a good note, i got some more parts in today. After Paul mentioned the oil pressure problem in the cam covers to me, which he encountered during johhnys build, i made a shopping list. I need an oil catch can and off course this also needs to be done with fancy AN fittings and SS hoses. So back to ebay to order some more fittings from Hongkong. Im using AN12 fittings from the cam covers to the catch can, and a single AN12 ss line to the oil pan.
Simple layout, just to make sure im not forgetting anything:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/12/20.jpg
And today the package arrived, still surprised a couple of these thing cost $250.. This got the cost of all the fittings and ss lines on the car to about $800, but i will look great when done so i try not to think about it too much :) Package was stated as having a $32 value, and i got hit with €28 ($37) taxes.. How it that fair ffs?
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/12/21.jpg
Unfortunately the shipment was messed up.. Instead of 5 * 12AN fittings i got 5 * 10AN.. So now i cant get the fittings welded to the cam covers (alu, so i cant weld it). Hope the seller can resolve this quickly. Ive ordered from them before and haven't had a problem and they are pretty quick with email responses so hope to hear something soon..
Sorry i cant help myself, just have to share this:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/12/22.jpg
Hows that for a twin turbo setup :)
Erm...'freaking chronic' comes to mind...very elaborate!! :thumbsup:
You'll probably hate me for this, yet...any chance you'll return to your old avatar(please, lol)?? I always find it SO funny, and much more unique(although not as 'cool' to some) than the joker... :icon_smile:
Erm...'freaking chronic' comes to mind...very elaborate!! :thumbsup:
You'll probably hate me for this, yet...any chance you'll return to your old avatar(please, lol)?? I always find it SO funny, and much more unique(although not as 'cool' to some) than the joker... :icon_smile:
Haha hows this? :)
I got bored with it after 4 years, but you know, whatever i need to do to keep you happy!
the_torquefather
10-12-2010, 23:34
nice rear mount turbos!
whatever i need to do to keep you happy!
Never a need, lol...your bunny is famous in these parts of the UK!! Anyway, that's perfect, esp. the M$ comparison...many thanks... :thumbsup:
Since the new fittings came in i got started on the cam covers. Fist up was removing the old small outlet. I started with a multitool (dremel) but it wasnt al plastic so used grinder with the small cutting disk, came off easy enough. Enlarged the hole to fit the AN fitting:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/12/30.jpg
Mock up of the final situation, still need to find someone with a alu welder and wait for the new fittins (got AN10 instead of the AN12 i ordered). Its pretty big but according to paul i should get the biggest i could fit so, go big or go home i guess :thumbsup:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/12/31.jpg
Drlling out the other one was a but more tricky..
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/12/32.jpg
But got there in the end.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/12/33.jpg
I then enlarged it so i could fit the other AN12 outlet, both will go to a (yet to be made) catch can.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/12/34.jpg
Also welded on the return AN12 fitting on the oil pan. This is on the rear (near the firewall), so it wont obstruct any of the feed & return lines from & to the turbos. The oil catch can will be mounted somewhere near the cam covers to keep the lines as short as possible. On the other side is an AN8 fitting for the turbo oil return line. Also repainted it after the last moment of stupidity (over spray).
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/12/35.jpg
I know there are some people here that are more at home in the workshop, so can anyone give me a guesstimate of the price to weld those 2 alu fittings on the cam covers? I only got one quote sofar but at €55 (incl vat) i thought is was a bit steep.
Im still reading :) every detail.
If you do need any parts from anywhere, let me know, I have international deliveries nearly everyday, sure I can sort out cheap shipping on my business account :D
Im waiting for 147 deliveries for my MR2, Checked tracking on the TRD kit from Japan about half an hour ago, and its just cleared customs no taxes added, Im VERY pleased :D
Cant wait to get my project thread up and running, prob wont be till the spring though, have just had a spray booth built with halogen heaters in the ceiling and the compressor hoses running of a pulley system from above. Im n0ot so sure on the whole engine conversion myself, so mega thumbs up to you. Im going to have to get Paul Woods to do mine lmao. I just dont want to mess it up!
dgh938peg
13-12-2010, 08:38
Hi hmmmm,
I'd have said €55 is about right. Not every welder can do Alloy - it's quite specialist.
I have one concern with feeding back to the sump from the Catch Can .... wont you end up pressurising the sump? I too am adding big fittings like that for my SC build but will feed in the traditional manner back into the intake system.
If you do need any parts from anywhere, let me know, I have international deliveries nearly everyday, sure I can sort out cheap shipping on my business account :D
Im waiting for 147 deliveries for my MR2, Checked tracking on the TRD kit from Japan about half an hour ago, and its just cleared customs no taxes added, Im VERY pleased :D
Cant wait to get my project thread up and running, prob wont be till the spring though, have just had a spray booth built with halogen heaters in the ceiling and the compressor hoses running of a pulley system from above. Im n0ot so sure on the whole engine conversion myself, so mega thumbs up to you. Im going to have to get Paul Woods to do mine lmao. I just dont want to mess it up!
Cant wait for the build thread, for me its actually the other way around, im pretty scared of painting the car myself. Wont stop me from trying though. Be sure to upload some pics of the spray booth so i can steal the design :)
Hi hmmmm,
I'd have said €55 is about right. Not every welder can do Alloy - it's quite specialist.
I have one concern with feeding back to the sump from the Catch Can .... wont you end up pressurizing the sump? I too am adding big fittings like that for my SC build but will feed in the traditional manner back into the intake system.
Ok then, i might just go for this quote then, the ten quid i might save up just isn't worth the time.
On the oil catch can, its not a good idea to feed it back to the intake. The sludge and oil filled air will cause carbon build up on the intake system and valves and decrease power. You can put a small air filter on the catch can that will get rid of the pressure. In the catch can you can build baffles and filtering to remove the crap from the clean oil. And then just transport the clean oil from the bottom of the catch can to the oil pan. simples :)
Nothing exiting to report, got some time today but didn't feel like working on the car. So made a cart for my welder, that way i dont have to lug it around when working on the car or other projects.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/12/36.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/12/37.jpg
AN12 fitting for the oil return from the cam covers, i should have gotten a 45 degree bend but this might work. I can always replace it if need be.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/12/38.jpg
AN8 on the rear for the turbo return line, pointing in the direction of the boot.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/12/39.jpg
Paul Woods
14-12-2010, 06:52
Loving this build and i've never seen turbos mounted that way before, very inventive!
I have a concern about the rear sump oil return, as it stands that will be under the oil level when the engine is tilted back in the bay, how do you plan to address this? As i understand it feeding oil back to the sump requires a downhill path and above the oil level or it risks turbo failure.
dgh938peg
14-12-2010, 08:32
Sorry i cant help myself, just have to share this:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/12/22.jpg
Hows that for a twin turbo setup :)
Loving this build and i've never seen turbos mounted that way before, very inventive!
I have a concern about the rear sump oil return, as it stands that will be under the oil level when the engine is tilted back in the bay, how do you plan to address this? As i understand it feeding oil back to the sump requires a downhill path and above the oil level or it risks turbo failure.
Im with Paul on this one. I had missed the pic above previously - looks very good but concerned about your oil return path too.
the oil drain is in the front of sump by the looks of it , you may need a pump though.have you test fitted any pipes . It soon gets complex with two sets of everything to hook up, still looking good have you resolved your intercooler /inlet problem ?
dgh938peg
14-12-2010, 12:57
Sorry hmmmm for spamming your thread.....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/12/22.jpg
Is there something separating the gas flow from the turbo inlet and outlet? This picture gives the impression you've simply welded the inlet and outlet onto a silencer..... If you have done this the gasses will take the path of least resistance and blow straight out the back. But i am guessing you have a plate splitting the silencer in two yes?
Paul Woods
14-12-2010, 17:56
I wondered that too Dan, but there's got to be.... otherwise it would be a monumental fail, i presumed there's piping inside the boxes splitting everything up.
Hohoho (not the Christmas kind) Hold the presses! I didn't make those! I was just looking around the web and came across these things. I thought they were pretty cool so posted a copy on here. As you can see a couple pages back my turbos are mounted in the trunk.
As for the oil pan, which fitting would be below oil level? (the smaller one?) I mounted them as high as possible but didn't think about the engine tilt.. Which one is the right one?
still looking good have you resolved your intercooler /inlet problem ?
Tnx mate, i did check the 2 in 1 out variant of the IC and it would fit in between the turbos but then there wont be any room for my ridiculous exhaust system im planning, so im keeping this and trying to route the pipes as neatly as possible.
Paul Woods
14-12-2010, 19:01
Ah that explains a lot, i'd forgotten where your turbos where going.
You need to plumb onto the front fitting, the rear one is definately underwater, i mean oil :)
dgh938peg
14-12-2010, 19:02
Oh ok fella!!! that's good to know :)
Found it sorry :)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2010/08/18.jpg
Got some parts coming in (putting the Christmas bonus to good use :) ), 440cc injectors are on there way, as is a V3 Megasquirt. Today got my clutch and flywheel in:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/22.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/23.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/24.jpg
Flywheel doesn't look bad, still have to get some bolts though, dont know if i can use the same bolts that are used on the fidanza, this might have a different thickness..
Also put in on a scale today (proper calibrated one, not the bathroom kind :) , and it weighs exactly 5.2Kgs, so around 380Grams more than the Fidanza. Not bad for half the price!
can i get a part number on that flywheel? i did not think they made a V6 flywheel like that. I'd like to order one and check it out.
also, is it SFI rated?
Wouldn't know about SFI. Ebay link here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/XTD-LIGHT-WEIGHT-RACING-FLYWHEEL-MR2-CELICA-GT4-TURBO-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQfitsZModelQ3aMR2QQhashZitem2c59 6b54c2QQitemZ190478767298QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruck Q5fPartsQ5fAccessories), it not a V6 flywheel btw, its a mk2 tubby wheel. Im having it adapted to fit the camry engine.
oh, ok. i thought you had found a V6 part number, i'm not looking to have to modify flywheels. that is a pretty awesome price.
Thanks for the quick reply though.
amelaPary
08-01-2011, 06:09
hey. finally signed up as a member after some time of just lurking and reading posts.
Welcome to the asylum! :) Location: Ghana, as in Ghana next to Togo?
Little update
Removed the rear window (what was left anyway) and cleaned up the 20 year old glue.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/71.jpg
Previous owner installed an antenna on the roof, and failed to do it properly.. So now the roof is fubarred.. Dont know what to do with this yet, might try to weld in a new section and blend it..
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/72.jpg
On the inside its even worse..
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/73.jpg
Cleaned up the underside and coated it, only right side sofar, my neck gave out..
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/74.jpg
And made some mounts for the intercooler out of aluminium, had some black hexagon bolts laying around, finally found a use for them :eusa_dance:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/75.jpg
All 3 of them on, looks ok i think.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/76.jpg
dgh938peg
17-01-2011, 08:32
Oi Oi Oi! that roof doesn't look pretty... I'd agree with your suggestion, plate from the inside with a bit of 1.6 - 2mm sheet then skim it in. From what i have seen of your archwork it should be pretty simple for you :)
thats a bitch , more work that you didnt bargain for .hope its quite localised around the hole and not gone under the strengthener that would require cutting too much Still might be a good time for a roof scoop and engine cover bit like an f1 think that would look great on a 2 .
Intercooler mounts are nice and neat, good work matey!
Hmmmm, as that's a chromoly flywheel, you'll be needing to get it spark eroded, they can't be drilled, far too hard.
i can machine em no probs. edm is not required.
dgh938peg
17-01-2011, 19:32
indeed - it's a case of using the right tooling :)
Hmmmm, as that's a chromoly flywheel, you'll be needing to get it spark eroded, they can't be drilled, far too hard.
Paul's doing it, and he says its doable, so im not arguing :)
Intercooler mounts are nice and neat, good work matey!
Tnx mate! Still need to figure out how to make the underside scoop without obstructing the exhaust but its cutting time soon!
thats a bitch , more work that you didnt bargain for .hope its quite localised around the hole and not gone under the strengthener that would require cutting too much Still might be a good time for a roof scoop and engine cover bit like an f1 think that would look great on a 2 .
Haha F1 style scoop all the way to the back since thats where the turbos are :)
Oi Oi Oi! that roof doesn't look pretty... I'd agree with your suggestion, plate from the inside with a bit of 1.6 - 2mm sheet then skim it in. From what i have seen of your archwork it should be pretty simple for you :)
If only you knew how long that took... :p
Fair play, i tried to get it done at a few places but they simply said no on my F1 jobby.
If you got the tooling though, batter in :)
Paul Woods
17-01-2011, 21:03
Pauls done it! All boxed ready to collect hmmmmm
Pauls done it! All boxed ready to collect hmmmmm
That was quick, thanks paul! Will pm to arrange pickup!
Only managed to get 4 hours in the garage this week but there was some progress.
I cut out a metal sheet to fit in the boot, since that looks properly fugly without the carpets. Also drilled some holes and mounted the IC. Still need to be fitted on the rear, but the bulkhead is at an angle so i need to create some mounts for that.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/133.jpg
The metal sheet is not a perfect fit, but the boot isn't straight either, so not the easiest to get right the first time. When everything is done, ill spotweld it in the boot and use some seam sealer to close the small gaps.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/134.jpg
Also cut the hole in the boot for the IC and fabbed a little scoop. It uses the same bolt that mount the IC so no ugly bolt heads visible on top. Dont know if its big enough, but i need some space for exhaust etc, might make a bigger one later, dependent on intake temps.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/135.jpg
Oh and i got lucky, found a defect Weller Pyropen (portable soldering iron with gas) at work in the metal bin. So took it home and ordered a new tip and burner unit. Works without any problems :thumbsup: These things arent cheap and even though ive got one in my (work)car its always handy to have one in the garage.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/01/136.jpg
That's looking real nice :smile: I'm going to have to tidy up my bootmount now, looks.... scruffy in comparison :icon_biggrin:
Yeey! new toy :icon_biggrin: Got a new compressor, 425L a minute, so plenty for continues sanding etc
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/16.jpg
As per Pauls advice, moved the turbo oil return to the other side.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/17.jpg
Cleaned up the gearbox and put some paint on it.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/18.jpg
Then made some mounts to install the 4an splitters in the boot. One is mounted higher so i can put them closer together.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/19.jpg
And installed:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/02/20.jpg
I want to use the same method to mount 2 more y splitters on the other side of the boot for the return lines. Now there is something im wondering about.. What happens if i use this method for the feed lines? I know i need to mount the oil return lines below the turbos to let gravity do its thing (im using an oil scavenge pump to help physics a bit), but do the feed lines need to be mounted above the turbo's? As the oil is pressurized at startup i reckon it wont make any difference, but i'd like to sure anyway.
2hardtop
04-02-2011, 08:39
Oil feed lines will be fine,because (as you said) they are pressure fed.
Overlaying of the splitters looks nice and neat.
nice boot scoop job!, you think any stones will flick up or not much chance..?
Oil feed lines will be fine,because (as you said) they are pressure fed.
Overlaying of the splitters looks nice and neat.
Thanks mate, just wanted to make sure before i destroy my turbines in a cloud of smoke and oil :)
nice boot scoop job!, you think any stones will flick up or not much chance..?
Dont think so, the scoop is pretty small and its in between the rear wheels. But ill check it after the first test drive, if there is any damage i can always install some sort of filter. Im also thinking of mounting some fans but not sure yet as to what type. I think some industrial metal 80x80mm fans will do the job, dont want to use anything to big because it will look silly.
motorbike fans fly! and are small
Good idea adam! Ill keep an eye out for a few of those.
Been a while, last 2 months had to work some weekends and spent some time building a new watercooled htpc/media server, this thing (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_YosKYON5WSA/TZjmftgGvUI/AAAAAAAABGA/CDNpNOb7kZs/s1152/IMAG0532.jpg). But i got some hours in the garage today.
Installed the oil pan, turbo return & cam breather return now fitted on the same side as per paulas advice.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/24.jpg
I wanted to mount the gearbox today so had to take the engine off the stand and on the crane. Searched for an hour but couldnt find the 2nd engine hanger.. So i ended up using the ps pump bracket to hang the engine from.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/25.jpg
Also got the flywheel bolts from mr T. They were too long though so had to shorten them a couple millimeters.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/26.jpg
Installed the Turbo XTD lightweight flywheel that paul re-drilled so it would fit the V6. Also installed the clutch, first time doing this but was a lot easier than i thought.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/27.jpg
Unfortunately i seem to be missing a vital component for the gearbox, some sort of fork that sitch behind the bearing on the gearbox shaft, a selector fork i believe the manual calls it. Looking at the manual i dont think i can install it later, so now its just sitting there :(
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/28.jpg
After swearing a bit i started to make some flanges for the turbo inlet's out of 8mm stainless. Ive got one of those cheap chinese welding machines that you can convert to a plasma cutter, but it just takes to long and i dont even know if it will cut material this thick. So i tried doing it the old fashioned way, a grinder and a drill. After 2 batteries i got this far.. Guess its time to set up the plasma :)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/29.jpg
Found some nice stainless pipes at the scrapyard, which fit perfect, so after a bit of work, ive got flanges for next to nothing.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/30.jpg
dgh938peg
04-04-2011, 13:37
Plasma's are great fun and a low power one will cut through metal like you wouldn't believe.
We have an industrial 100-Amp plasma at work and will cut through 25mm thick MS and 15mm thick SS. Might i suggest - rather than the ballache that you buy these?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-1-2-Exhaust-flange-Stainless-Steel-Universal-63mm-/310267675142?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item483d650206
Don't get me wrong, highly commendable for making them yourself but is 2 hours work really worth not spending £15? It's 2 hours you could spend installing.....! :)
You look to be making good progress tho!.
stevehall
04-04-2011, 15:37
Unfortunately i seem to be missing a vital component for the gearbox, some sort of fork that sitch behind the bearing on the gearbox shaft, a selector fork i believe the manual calls it. Looking at the manual i dont think i can install it later, so now its just sitting there :(
I think you mean clutch fork, if it's an n/a gearbox I've got a spare one I can send you way if you need it.
I think you mean clutch fork, if it's an n/a gearbox I've got a spare one I can send you way if you need it.
That would be awesome, ill pm you to send the picture of me kneeling down in gratitude (and to arrange postage :) )
Don't get me wrong, highly commendable for making them yourself but is 2 hours work really worth not spending £15? It's 2 hours you could spend installing.....! :)
You look to be making good progress tho!.
I was thinking the same thing after those 2 hours.. One of those 'little jobs' that will only take a couple minutes :)
Im still giving it a try with the plasma though, just because i want to see if it can cut this size. If it works i can also use it to make the flanges for the exhaust manifolds, which will be a 'little' bit more expensive if i have them fabricated by someone else.
Dude, you need to have a second look at your crank case vent (PCV) system. (diagram that you have on pg 16)
The purpose of the system is to release the pressure build up in the crankcase/heads due to slight blow by on the rings that comes with engines and gets worse with age. Venting the pressure from the heads back to the sump will NOT fix this. Instead your crankcase/heads will build up pressure as pressurised gas seaps past your rings. What you have created is a sealed system! What will happen with time is your crankcase will build up pressure and screw seals and piss oil everywhere.
On most turbocharged vehicles, they vent the gas into the induction system pre-turbo. Putting a oil catch can inline helps prevent the turbo from sucking in oily vapors and gumming up your intake tract.
Correct way of doing things:
HEAD VENT -------> OIL CATCH CAN --------> INTAKE PRE TURBO
They do it pre-turbo so that when the intake pressure goes from a vacuum to boost, it doesn't pressurise your crank case with it.
Bevan
You're going to either need to plug one of those AN fittings in your sump, or possibly run a single oil return from each turbo and use the second one for that.
Bevan
There are different ways to do this, these are some of the methods i found:
1: HEAD VENT -------> OIL CATCH CAN --------> INTAKE PRE TURBO
2: HEAD VENT -------> VENTED OIL CATCH CAN
3: HEAD VENT -------> VENTED OIL CATCH CAN --------> SUMP
4: HEAD VENT -------> ATMOSPHERE (thats a messy one :) )
The idea with option 3 is that you don't have to empty the catch can like with solution 2, but also don't get the dirty fumes in you inlet like with solution 1. I realize a filtered oil catch can will take a lot of crap out but i still don't want any crap in my inlet. Oil is changed regularly so also shouldn't cause any problems there, and since the catch can is vented , it will take care of any pressure build up. (I now realize i didn't put the catch can filters on the diagram). Only downside is that the crap fumes are vented to atmosphere, but tbh i cant really be bothered about that :)
Ive seen this done and sounded good to me, if there any reason not to do this pls let me know, all the advice is appreciated!
You can run a drain back to the sump, however, it needs to vent the pressure to atmosphere somehow.
Like this (It's in Jap though):
http://skylinist.blog.eonet.jp/hcr32/2009/09/post-2c18.html
http://www.gtrpwr.com/showthread.php?t=61
So yeah, so long as it's vented, you're good! :)
Correct, thats wy im venting the catch can using small air filters, something like this (im diy'ing it though)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/38.jpg
93mr2turbo
09-04-2011, 12:46
wow!! this build is awesome! ladies and gents i have a new hero.
wow!! this build is awesome! ladies and gents i have a new hero.
Haha just wait till i start it up and it blows up into a thousand pieces :)
Anyway started with the AN lines, using a guide from hondatech (http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2150049) of all places..
First one got scratched pretty badly, but after that it went ok. I think the cheaper an fittings i got from japan are easier to scratch then the more expensive ones from the renowned shops.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/111.jpg
Installed in the boot, still waiting on the oil return gaskets for the turbo, and some more an4 hose for the water cooling.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/112.jpg
Then tried to fix the hole in the roof, cut out a square and made a piece out of 1mm to fit.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/113.jpg
But then the failing started.. For some reason i cant seem to weld anything to the roof's metal. Ive got my welder on the lowest setting and still burn holes in seconds. Before i get a puddle in the square piece ive already got another hole in the roof :( So i cut out a bigger piece and tried again.. and again.. In the end i got something welded in but it isnt pretty. After some cleaning it looks flat enough but still got some minor pinholes, if i try to fill those in ill just create bigger holes..
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/114.jpg
Dont know what im going to do with this. Im thinking rust got in the metal and i need to cut away the entire roof to get rid of it.. twin turbo convertible anyone? :)
dgh938peg
17-04-2011, 08:30
You'll probably find what you have left there on your roof is very thin. Around 0.5mm thick - hence it keeps burning away. You trying to weld in a piece of similar thickness - say 0.8mm?
Personally i'd opt for putting a larger square behind the hole. Drill 4 holes in the roof, plug weld it the skim it with filler back to shape. Now I realise the roof beam is there but the spar that runs down the centre is only bonded in :thumbsup:
decipherer
18-04-2011, 11:34
If you can, try to keep a piece of metal behind your weld. Bigger is better, but do not use iron, e.g. aluminum or copper so you won't weld it to the roof. It will prevent you from burning holes too quickly by absorbing heat. In my opinion though, filling a round hole would be better as it is less likely to crack due to stresses in the chassis from cornering, speed bumps etc. than the square shaped hole.
wood_patrick
18-04-2011, 13:30
You think thats not pretty, you should see my attempt at redoing my sills! :-o Had same problem burning holes through and in the end looked like I had pebbledashed it in until I went at it with the grinder. Only way I could get it done was loads of spot welds then grinded, then spot, then grinded... I was welding it up to behind where the side vent was so the join will be easier to hide. :-) Dont think it will be too bad when finished inner sill and grounded down properly but I may be biost... ;-)
Good thread though! :-)
Only way I could get it done was loads of spot welds then grinded, then spot, then grinded...
Good thread though! :-)
If you can, try to keep a piece of metal behind your weld.
Personally i'd opt for putting a larger square behind the hole. Drill 4 holes in the roof, plug weld it the skim it with filler back to shape. Now I realise the roof beam is there but the spar that runs down the centre is only bonded in
Thanks for the tips guys!, ill try to remove the spar so ill have better access. Then using a steel circle of the same thickness, and drilling some hole to keep the roof from burning away. Will update with whatever im left with :thumbsup:
You might wanna check the thickness of your weldingwire, 0.6mm is what you want.
dgh938peg
28-04-2011, 08:45
You might wanna check the thickness of your weldingwire, 0.6mm is what you want.
I totally agree - 0.8 wire requires more amps to melt - the less amps used the less chance of blowing holes through
Im not using a MIG but a TIG, which doesnt use wire, but filler rods, and they are the smallest i could find (1,6mm), im also using a small tungsten rod etc. But i got some (read: alot) of overtime hours left over, so i decided to spent them on some more tools. You can never have enough tools :) I got a Cebora 160amp mig/mag welder, which comes with 5kg 8mm wire, but ill get some 6mm just to make sure, thanks for the tip guy's! Ill still use the tig for mounts/exhaust etc, and i can also use it as a plasma torch, but the mig is just more suited for bodywork. Also got some other toys, updates tomorrow :)
ps: Steve, i got the selector fork in the mail today, thanks a bunch! (youre inbox is full btw :) )
stevehall
29-04-2011, 23:10
Ahh yes, cleared out some old mail now. Supprised how long that took to deliver, that was posted ages ago.
Lovely new toys :smile:
New table grinder (or whatever its called) and a new drill
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/231.jpg
And a new welder, a Cebora 160 Amp MIG
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/232.jpg
After setting up the amps and wire speed tried some spotwelding, at its a lot easier then the tig :thumbsup:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/233.jpg
So i started attempt nr 4 to fix the roof. Dont have any 6mm wire yet (queensday here, so everything is closed) but i managed with the 8mm. Drilled some holes in the roof and welded in a plate underneath it. Then spot welded all around the edges. Not the cleanest job but should work as intended.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/234.jpg
Unfortunately i used a plasma torch to make the hole, which got too hot and warped the metal. So the roof is going to need some filler to get everything straight again..:icon_mad:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/235.jpg
Nice welds, good work getting the roof sorted!
wood_patrick
02-05-2011, 00:10
Kinda puts my sills in their modest place.... Lol.
Good work on the roof. Lookin good! :-)
Thanks for the support guys!
I was running some lines today for the turbo oil and water feed. Ive welded a 6an fitting on the oil filter housing to get the oil, but i cant figure out what the best way is to get a coolant line too the boot.. I thought there was supposed to be a blank off plug somewhere in the engine block, but im not sure. Any ideas?
cdwood2010
08-05-2011, 00:52
thought there was supposed to be a blank off plug somewhere in the engine block, but im not sure. Any ideas?
Is this the 3VZ?
Isn't there an oilway bolt on the block between the oil filter and the pulley end?
I'm sure someone (might have been Adam) mentioned they had replaced the bolt with a tapped drain ready for a TC / SC add on at some point?
I will have a look on my engine tomorrow.
Chris.
Sorry mate think you misunderstood.. I need to find a way to get some coolant to my rear mounted turbo (watercooled), oil is already sorted.
cdwood2010
08-05-2011, 15:26
Doh!
I'll get my coat.....
:(
Chris.
Well i got some info from Paul, and i can get coolant directly from the coolant line, so thats solved. Also got some time today to pick up the lasercut ss header flanges, they look great:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/05/299.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/05/300.jpg
Seeing as they were only €25 a piece, i might have them cut up some flanges for the turbo too, cheaper and faster then ordering them from the us :)
Just read your whole thread. Realy a amazing build mate!
What material did you use for the header flanges? about 8mm Stainless?
dgh938peg
01-06-2011, 08:13
Going by the hole size i'd say that's 12mm thick Resolve :)
Both 2mm off :) Its 10mm stainless steel. Should be plenty to get some strong welds without warping the flange. Now i just need to find a proper dutch source for mandrel bends, most are way to expensive.. Ordering from the US is cheap, but shipping and custom's are killing a good deal :(
Both 2mm off :) Its 10mm stainless steel. Should be plenty to get some strong welds without warping the flange. Now i just need to find a proper dutch source for mandrel bends, most are way to expensive.. Ordering from the US is cheap, but shipping and custom's are killing a good deal :(
Maby i've got somthing for you!! I've also been searching to get the bends for normal prices. Will drop you a pm.
i have spent a good few hours reading all this tread hmmmmmm it has taught me some new thing thank you I can't wait to read whats next.
ha ha ha...thanks hmmmmm that new member pic made me laugh my socks off !
Now take that to Bavaria and see if they laugh.
I still prefer the rabbit though, strangely
Maby i've got somthing for you!! I've also been searching to get the bends for normal prices. Will drop you a pm.
Please do! I still haven't found a viable option!
i have spent a good few hours reading all this tread hmmmmmm it has taught me some new thing thank you I can't wait to read whats next.
Thanks mate, still lots to do and a shortage if time and money is killing me right now, but updates will keep coming, im finishing this thing sooner or later (probably later, much later :smile:)
ha ha ha...thanks hmmmmm that new member pic made me laugh my socks off !
Now take that to Bavaria and see if they laugh.
I still prefer the rabbit though, strangely
You sir, seem to have some kind of rabbit fetish :blabla: I had the Joker one before this, which was pretty cool but not very funny, i get bored sometimes i guess.. But dont worry the rabbit is staying in the signature :thumbsup:
Lovely new stuff arrived today, the wide arches from Carbenfibre! (thanks for the quick service Ben!) And i didnt get raped by custom's, so no extra charges at the border. And a day not raped, is a good day :)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/07/39.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/07/40.jpg
Now i just need to figure out what goes where, and i still need some sideskirts. Any thoughts on what filler to use to mold these things in with the body, like what brand? (im not a fan of visible rivets)
venomconcepts
07-07-2011, 18:08
i use this and is strong as hell
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/2269914/
never had problems
keep up the good work
Thanks for the tip Venom, that stuff certainly looks strong enough :)
Ive had some problems finding some Tom's sideskirts, they are not easily available here in Holland and shipping from either us or uk is killing an otherwise good deal.. Fortunately some Greddy sideskirts popped up on the Dutch mr2 club forum, not exactly what i wanted but they look similar and will do the job just fine.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/07/277.jpg
Some minor damage on the side vent but nothing serious:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/07/278.jpg
Now i just need a rear bumber, ive got a lead on a Tom's rear, but might just go with the oem bumper. I want a big diffuser so it needs to be modded anyway :)
ColleyV8
29-07-2011, 06:21
Thats the only thing missing from the MR2 modding scene, a good rear diffuser like the NSX or others, let me know how you get on with that one.
Steve
quigonjay
29-07-2011, 11:24
Thats the only thing missing from the MR2 modding scene, a good rear diffuser like the NSX or others, let me know how you get on with that one.
Steve
the guys at rogue might be able to help out with that one, i believe they have done 1 or 2 for the mr2 super gt race cars
the guys at rogue might be able to help out with that one, i believe they have done 1 or 2 for the mr2 super gt race cars
Thanks for the tip mate, ive shot them an email to ask if they ever plan on reproducing it. Dont think it will be cheap though, they are rogue after all :)
I think the gracer skirts look better than the toms , diffuser would look cool on a pumped up mk2
Another package came in today, 8KG of filler. Now idea how much i need but should be enough to get me started :)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/17.jpg
Its 4KG Dynacoat filler for the rough parts and 4KG Sikkens Polykit filler with a finer structure to get it smooth, don't know wy it says aluminium though, according to the shop its meant for both steel and polyester. Now i just need a spray gun. Im planning on stripping all the paint and applying 2 coats of epoxy primer, then filler, then more primer.
Money is flying out quick.. :)
Just ordered 4Kg of epoxy primer for the body and 2kg plastic primer for the aftermarket bumpers/sideskirts etc. Also some sanding blocks, a dual action sander, tack cloth's, a cheap spray gun for the primer and some industrial 180watt fans to keep the dust out of the garage.
no beer? coming along well
No beer in the garage Adam, im keeping that for the barbecue :beer:
Is it just me or is buying new toys half the fun? Picked up a big ass fan today, 380volts, full stainless steel frame,and its powerfull as hell. If Gouky got his hands on it, he'd probably put it in the back of a mk2 :driving: Cost me 60 quid and it will keep the garage dust free (if it doesnt blow everything else out too :blabla:)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/31.jpg
Little update, got some more supplies in. Sanding blocks, paints, fiber disks, breating mask etc
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/123.jpg
And got started on stripping the body. I cant use any chemical strippers because my garage is located on a industrial site where that sort of stuff is not allowed, so everything has to be done by hand...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/124.jpg
Coming along , are you going to finish the body first or Are you alternating when you get a bit bored ?
Awesome work, that's a heluva lot of sanding.... want to paint my car next?
Coming along , are you going to finish the body first or Are you alternating when you get a bit bored ?
I want to get the outside + frunk in epoxy primer first, the boot will be painted when all the mechanics are done. Im not sure if im going to attempt to get the colour and clear on, as ive never painted before and it would be a pita to redo all the prep work. So right now the plan is to prime it next weekend. Then wait 2 weeks before sanding, and then block it out. After that ill probably need a couple weeks to get the dust out of my skin :)
Awesome work, that's a heluva lot of sanding.... want to paint my car next?
I dont mind the sanding, seeing as nothing can go wrong :) Sometimes its just nice to do something simple with a bit of music in the background and a beer in hand :) But i wouldnt want to do this every day, i would go mental!
Just got back from the garage, doing some late night sanding :)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/125.jpg
Getting all the little nooks sanded is a bitch, the fiber disks cant get in there and a sanding block is too big.. Im not even sure i need to get every little bit off when its not even visible.. Any ideas on this?
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/126.jpg
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