cat or not

[tripod23]

hi guys i know this is a grey area - but my celica is a 1992 k reg - now it had a cat fitted when it was running on the factory 2ltr 3sge . but now its got the v6 in im wanting to get a custon exhaust - the seems to think i may be able to get away without putting a cat on . does anybody accually know the present law .

[biteme]

I don't like pets - and neither does your car! <Cryptic mood>

[rattymr2]

Pretty sure you will be ok with a 92 car. i think it is 96 onwards that have to have a cat or a friendly mot guy.

[biteme]

N 1995 I think it was... not sure though. There's a chart out of there on the VOSA site I think.

[tripod23]

i will have a look at vosa again couldnt find anything before - will try again.

nice one johnny........................

[biteme]

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/11/1.gif

[tripod23]

johnny they wont find a v6 celica on any chart does that mean im home and dry

[biteme]

You should be pretty much ok :)

[Gary Symons]

The above confirms what I always believed, mk3's will need a cat test.

how do mk3 conversions get around this then? friendly tester? :)

[antnkel]

The above confirms what I always believed, mk3's will need a cat test.

how do mk3 conversions get around this then? friendly tester? :)

Depends what's going in it's either the car or engine that has to be first registered on a 95m or before.:)

[biteme]

The above confirms what I always believed, mk3's will need a cat test.

how do mk3 conversions get around this then? friendly tester? :)

Check the 4th diamond along on the top. Can you find an exact match? If no, then you go to the 3.5% Cat Test :thumbsup:

[Gary Symons]

Check the 4th diamond along on the top. Can you find an exact match? If no, then you go to the 3.5% Cat Test :thumbsup:

thats older cars though, I have to answer No to the first question :)

[biteme]

CO: <0.3
HC: 200ppm
Lambda 0.97-1.03

A 3SGTE should piss that if it's in good condition, and well mapped. No?

[antnkel]

This is a email from visa

Thank you for your e-mail
As the older of the vehicle and engine is the May 1995 vehicle the emissions test would be carried out to that standard. *At this age a CAT Test would only be required if there is an exact match in the analyser database. *As your vehicle is fitted with a different engine there will not be an exact match and therefore you vehicle will only require a non CAT Test. *
For advice on the V5 you would need to contact the DVLA you can e-mail them at vehicle.dvla@gtnet.gov.uk and by telephone on 0870240010.

Regards
Tina


VOSA Contact Centre
Chief Information Officer Directorate
Tel:- 0300 123 9000 or 0870 60 60 440



"Anthony Murray" <***********>
12/08/2008 18:52

* * * *
* * * * To: * * * *"Enquiries@vosa.gov.uk" <Enquiries@vosa.gov.uk>
* * * * cc: * * * *
* * * * Subject: * * * *Re: Engine transplant.
- Show quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

[Paul Woods]

It's very simple, the new cat/non cat cut off point is 95 for engine converted cars... previously 93 for standard engined cars.The engine converted car then gets tested on the older of the two, engine or car...... so some examples below...

86 mk1 with a 2006 2gr fitted..... non cat test
94 mk2 with a 2006 2gr fitted..... non cat test
95 (aug-) mk2 with a 2006 2gr fitted... cat test required
99 mk2 with a 97 1mz fitted..... cat test required
99 mk2 with a 93 3vz fitted.... non cat test
2005 mk3 with a 92 3vz fitted.... non cat test
2005 mk3 with a 97 1mz fitted... cat test required
92 celica with 97- 1mz fitted.... non cat test

[Alanmilton]

It depends on when the car was registered, you need a cat after March 92 onwards for a uk car, it depends on the car not the engine, the imports are differant

[tripod23]

i have just been onto my mot tester who i know very well - he is saying that my celica which is a late 92 uk car will need a cat test......he also said that all this can be very confusing - when the diagram says can you find an exact match - it means for imported cars were the car is the same but they have used a different name . he told me all this is very fresh in his mind because he had just been on some sort of course to clarify what is needed.................so i think i will get a cat put on the car and then its a decat pipe for when get it home from the mot .

[biteme]

I'd go to a different MOT tester.

[tripod23]

http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m3s07000307.htm

just spoken to vosa they are saying that if the vehicla cannot be found in the manual they provide to all testers - import or uk car - then its a not cat test and its to meet 3.5 percent co reading.

the above is bang upto date according to the lady i spoke to who was very helpfull

does anyone have any figures for what a 1mz with factory ecu pumps out in terms of co gases

[biteme]

It'll be online in the Toyota BGB somewhere?

[antnkel]

If you look at post 15 that's all you need to know you just need to find an mot place that knows what they are doing:icon_conf

[Paul Woods]

Agree 100% with ant.


he is saying that my celica which is a late 92 uk car will need a cat test

He is wrong and simply does not know the "ins and outs" of it.Engine converted cars new cut off date is 95, not 93 for a stocker.

[tripod23]

yeah the lady i spoke to at vosa - said it defo only needs a non cat test in her own words..................................would the 1mz pass emissions easily without the cat . im very interested in what figures it would come back with as its running on the factory ecu. and to me it smells a hell of a lot cleaner than the 3sge when running...

[Fizzy]

This is a coincidence. :hmm:

Well, my MOT is due tomorrow on my V6 and my normal friendly garage has gone... :sad: Took me a while to find it too.

The last time I used a more local garage they insisted on a cat being installed.

My car was 1st registered in Oct '95, so just outside the "safe" zone. If you go through the chart based on the vehicle, it would have to go through a "cat test with default limits". It doesn't say "vehicle or engine (whichever is oldest) first used..." which is probably why there's so much arguing over it.

My last mot emissions test (no cat) gave a CO level of 0.51%. Unfortunately it doesn't say whether thats idle or fast idle. The doc above shows that the limit for idle is 0.5% - so close! However if it's fast idle then its over the 0.3% limit.

HC was at 154 ppm which is well below the cat test 200 limit.

I've got a decat pipe fitted, so bought a "cheap" (for a cat) cat off ebay. Unfortunately one of the bolts is proving a pain to get out, rusted etc with restricted access..... :banghead: May have to see if I can drop out the whole exhaust so I can get a little more access - but then there's two more longish bolts holding the exhaust up which look rather rusted too.

Mot is booked for tomorrow, and its been lousy weather here (hailing hard and all that) so not been able to sort it tonight. May have another bash in the morning.

After all this I hope it doesn't fail on anything else.... :doh:

[antnkel]

When I took mine for an mot they didn't know but only took one phone call to vosa for them to find out. It's just a case of most places are lazy and couldn't give a toss.:banghead:

[Fizzy]

Ok, just had mot done - and car failed. However it was on binding brakes.

I had a good chat about the whole emissions thing and saw the testing in action.

Basically - its the new computerised system thats causing the issue. He checked his manual and found the section referenced here. He also asked for proof of the age of the engine, so I brought along the service book from the donor car. It shows as oct '92.

If he chooses that date on the system, it goes straight into a cat test... there is no "is there an exact match in the database" question on it. (Queue little britain's "Computer says no!" ) However the question is in the flowchart in the mot manual.

So, would be ok going by the manual but not by the computerised system. Which do they trust more depends on the mechanic I guess.

Thankfully this one simply selected an earlier date, did a not cat test and manually wrote that there was no exact match on the database hence non cat test. Basically to cover him against VOSA prosecution just in case, which is fine with me.

If they update the manual to comply with the electronic system, then a cat will be required for > aug 92 engines. (or not if you simply have proof that "your" engine is before then).

So - I've got a cat spare now. If I had decided to wait until the emissions thing was proven wouldn't have needed to buy one. lol

As it stands - I now need to get the brakes sorted which will probably take a few days to sort as well, like getting pads etc. Trickier too now that the mot has expired and the tax runs out on monday. Mail order it is then. lol

[antnkel]

For import cars that don't match then after July 92 they need a cat test but for engine conversions its after July 95 there is a difference.
Engine converted cars don't come under the same rules.

[Fizzy]

Well, unless he missed the "engine conversion yes/no" question then looks like the automated system doesn't cater for it?

[antnkel]

This is a email from visa

Thank you for your e-mail
As the older of the vehicle and engine is the May 1995 vehicle the emissions test would be carried out to that standard. *At this age a CAT Test would only be required if there is an exact match in the analyser database. *As your vehicle is fitted with a different engine there will not be an exact match and therefore you vehicle will only require a non CAT Test. *
For advice on the V5 you would need to contact the DVLA you can e-mail them at vehicle.dvla@gtnet.gov.uk and by telephone on 0870240010.

Regards
Tina


VOSA Contact Centre
Chief Information Officer Directorate
Tel:- 0300 123 9000 or 0870 60 60 440



"Anthony Murray" <***********>
12/08/2008 18:52

* * * *
* * * * To: * * * *"Enquiries@vosa.gov.uk" <Enquiries@vosa.gov.uk>
* * * * cc: * * * *
* * * * Subject: * * * *Re: Engine transplant.
- Show quoted text -
- Show quoted text -


Well, unless he missed the "engine conversion yes/no" question then looks like the automated system doesn't cater for it?

If you look at the above email from vosa it's saying because my car was a may 95 car then it would require a non cat test, so make your own mind up what's true.:blink:

[Fizzy]

If you look at the above email from vosa it's saying because my car was a may 95 car then it would require a non cat test, so make your own mind up what's true.:blink:

I've no issue with what you say there - going by the mot manual all would be well. VOSA also agree - so it appears to be correct thankfully.

However what I was trying to get at it is that for whatever reason the "is there a match in the list" question didn't come up on screen when I was watching the guy.

Whether that's an issue with the emissions testing software or operator training - well, it just goes to show why there are varied successes with emission tests across different mot stations, as it a confusing mess.

Thankfully he went with the manual and passed it anyway (well, the emissions bit) so not really an issue for me, but maybe would be if somebody trusted the computer more. In which case do this :- :crash: :whistle: :driving: :D

[antnkel]

Doesn't matter what they use an mot manual or computer data base rules are rules, you can contest any mot with vosa if you think it's been failed wrongly can't you?

[Fizzy]

Doesn't matter what they use an mot manual or computer data base rules are rules, you can contest any mot with vosa if you think it's been failed wrongly can't you?

True - apparently there is an appeal process, but as I've never had to use it I don't know what's involved or how much hastle it is.

It's a shame we have to go through all this in the first place.