Rev 5 n/a engine into rev1 n/a car

[steve-m-uk]

Hi, i'm hoping one of you guys may be able to help me, i'm in the process of installing a rev 5 uk n/a engine into my other halfs rev 1 uk n/a, i'm using the rev1 body loom and fusebox and the rev5 engine loom. So far it cranks but there is no spark,it is getting fuel as i can smell it,does anyone have pinouts for the fusebox rev1 and rev5 so i can attempt to match them up? Also the white plug in the boot and the body ecu plug will be wrong too i assume so can anyone tell me how to rewire these?
Any help/advise would be great :thumbsup:

[Paul Woods]

hmmm, lots of problems here... by far the biggest one, i think your rev5 ECU will have an anti-theft transponder unit(immobiliser)... have you fitted this along with the original cars pickup coil and ignition key?

Give me the rev5 ECU part number and i will tell you if it is a transponder type or not.

Did the engine come out of an import or UK car? Imports don't have the immobiliser at all, if it's a uk engine and it is post december 95 then it definately HAS the immobiliser.

I don't have rev5 NA pinouts but i can talk you through the wiring up via this thread if you follow the steps methodically, but the big issue is wether it is an immobilised ECU so let's get that sorted first.

[steve-m-uk]

Many thanks Paul, the engine came with it's rev5 ecu and it's out of a '99 rev5 uk car, i figured the immobiliser would be a problem as the original owner kept the keys etc for his tubby transplant, so i got hold of a uk rev3 ecu assuming that rev3 and rev5 pinouts would be the same. i will be able to get the number from the ecu tonight (car is at friends house). Everything in the engine bay is from the rev5 i.e coil,igniter,engine loom and i also have the rev5 loom to the passenger footwell if required should that make life easier. I have used the rev1 speedo sensor in the rev5 gearbox too so any speedo wires should be redundant. The reciever car is a uk rev1 n/a,no a/c no abs and no p/s so about as basic as they come.
Thanks for the assistance :fingersx:
Steve

[Paul Woods]

Yep you should be good to go with the rev3NA ECU, it does not take a lot to power them up and get them working, but the rev5 ECU had no chance at all without the immobiliser gubbins.

[steve-m-uk]

Today we towed the car back to Tara's place so we can tinker with the wiring and i have removed the ecu. The part numbers are as follows:

Rev1 ecu 89661-17310 original ecu

Rev3 ecu 89661-17500 going to use this one

Rev5 ecu 89661-17580 transponder ecu so no good

I left the battery connected and it seems there is a power drain somewhere but i'm guessing the re-pinning will sort this out?

[Paul Woods]

It should do... i will dig some wiring info out later and get the ball rolling.

[steve-m-uk]

Cheers Paul :)

[Paul Woods]

Ok just to get started, i presume you haven't plugged the furthest right ECU plug in straight from the body? I mean used the old rev1 ECU plug? That won't work.

You need to use a rev3- 22pin plug or wire your rev1 plug up by pin order and ignore the colours.

Asuming you have the rev3 22 pin plug there, there should be a white/red wire at pin 1, that is battery live.

There should be a black/yellow wire at pin 12, that is 12v ign.

At pin 5 there is a green wire, this is CEL... should be in the same place as the rev1 CEL wire, be careful not to use pin 4, it is also green but is for brake lights.

If you do this, report back that your CEL lights up when you switch ignition on.

[steve-m-uk]

I did plug the rev1 ecu plug in and try it :banghead: hope i haven't killed it.
If i chop the plug off the rev5 body loom will that do the trick?

[Paul Woods]

Yes do that steve... i just hope the rev1 plug hasn't popped the rev3 ECU, you might be ok....

[steve-m-uk]

Ok i'll get the loom when i go up to Tara's and cut the plug from it then try connecting it up as you describe then report back ,just so i'm clear the wire colours you have given are what will be on the rev1 loom and the pin numbers i connect them to are on the rev5 plug is that right?:)

[steve-m-uk]

Ok i tried connecting up the three wires and no CEL,however i could not find a green wire on pin 5 on either plug? The rev1 plug has a green/white and the rev5 has a black wire. I took photo's of both plugs so you can see what i have
http://s243.photobucket.com/albums/ff299/yingmcding/?action=view&current=DSC00171.jpg
http://s243.photobucket.com/albums/ff299/yingmcding/?action=view&current=DSC00170.jpg

[Paul Woods]

Steve it looks like your CEL wire is on pin 4 of the rev5 plug, try that one, but connect it to pin 5 of your rev1 plug wire, thats green/white.

[steve-m-uk]

Ok i'll try that tonight,i'll take the rev3 ecu to work with me and try it on a friends rev3 to make sure it isn't fried from me plugging the rev1 loom straight in. :pray: The square white plug in the boot wouldn't stop the car from showing the CEL would it because that's not wired in yet due to the plugs not matching?

[Paul Woods]

No, there's no CEL wires in that plug, it runs down the old rev1 plug on pin 5 right to the dash.

[steve-m-uk]

Ok today i tried the rev3 ecu in a mates car and it works fine :) I also took note of the plug on the rev3 car and it is exactly the same as the rev5 plug i have so that is a bonus,the main difference being on rev3+ the white/red wire is on pin2 instead of pin1 so that may have been my problem? I'll try wiring up again tonight and see if we can get that CEL working, thanks for your patience and help with this Paul :thumbsup:

[Paul Woods]

Yep even i got the location of the W/R pin wrong in my post earlier, so it is easily done, rev3 W/R batt permanent is on pin 2.... give that a try.

[steve-m-uk]

Result :boogie: the CEL is now working. Put bullet connectors on all the ecu plug wires so should be easy to make whichever connections are needed next.

[Paul Woods]

Basically with just those wires and a CEL we should be getting something, it may only run for a few seconds but give it a go and see what happens.

If it does run for a second or two then die we need to connect the COR holding wire, more on that after we have established it runs a little.

[steve-m-uk]

I tried to crank it last night after we got the CEL working, all it does is turn over but i'll try again tonight and see what happens. :fingersx:

[steve-m-uk]

Same results as last night,it cranks and smells of fuel but no sign of it firing at all,:hmm:

[Paul Woods]

Ok can you establish if there is a spark? If have done a quick flow chart for you to run through...

1. Remove a plug lead and stick a screwdriver up it, hold the shaft (oer) about 3mm from an earth like the block/bracket etc and crank the engine.

2. If there is a good spark jump to point 13.

3. Remove the king lead from the distributor and check for a spark coming from that, if there is a spark from that then you have a faulty rotor arm/distributor cap brush.If no spark present remove the lead from the coilpack and use a piece of wire to test the coil output to earth, if this time there is a strong spark your king lead is knackered, if there is still no spark jump to 5.

4. Remove the cap and hold the king lead tip 3mm from the rotor arm centre and crank again,this time if there IS a spark jumping to the rotor then it confirms it's knackered, if no spark jumps then the rotor arm is fine.Examine the carbon brush.

5. Check the black/red wire on the coilpack has 12v ign

6. Check the black/red wire on the igniter has 12v ign

7. Check the igniter casing has a 100% continuity to ground, the meter needs to read 0.00 ohms, 0.01 is not acceptable, if it doesn't have a full ground clean it up where it bolts to the body.

8. Get a non flashing LED and connect its wires to the two coil wires with it wired + to + and - to - or it won't work, crank the engine and the LED should pulse brightly, if it does pulse brightly then you have a knackered coilpack.

9. If it pulses feintly then you have a problem with the igniter.

10. If it doesn't pulse at all check the distributor 4 pin plug is connected.

11. Check continuity of the distributor wires bak to the ECU and also continuity of the igniter wires to ECU and to the signal wire of the coil.

12. You have already established the ECU is fine so if all of the above checks out it only leaves a faulty distributor hall effect signal/broken windings/pickup.Replace distributor.

13. Take your plugs out and dry them thoroughly, with all of the cranking it could just be flooded.If they are not wet at all then i need to give you a batch of tests for the fuel system.

Report back when this is done.

[steve-m-uk]

Ok thanks Paul,i did plan to spend today fault finding but now i have to work as the royal mail strike has been called off,how inconsiderate :rolleyes: So i'll do the checks on Saturday and report back :thumbsup:

[steve-m-uk]

After our discussion the other day we found a rev3 uk loom and fitted that today but now it won't crank and i'm unsure why? It has 12v at the main terminal on the starter and i have tried the starter relay on my car and found it to be ok. Any ideas?

[Paul Woods]

The energiser wire on the starter relay must be dead (red wire) ,which means it is on the wrong pin in your engine bay fusebox

Have you just plugged the rev3 loom into the rev1 fusebox steve? as before that won't work mate.... so you will need to repin/use rev1 plugs.

[steve-m-uk]

I have rewired the smaller of the two fusebox plugs to the rev1 plug as we talked about,i haven't done anything with the larger plug yet,will this be my issue?

[Paul Woods]

I think so, pretty sure the STA signal is in there.

Alternatively you can take the STA signal from pin 11 of your old rev1 ECU plug (possibly a red wire, or might be B/W) but def on pin 11..... wire that straight to your red wire on the starter relay.

[steve-m-uk]

Thanks Paul,hopefully tomorrow we will have a runner :praise2:

[Paul Woods]

I take it the idea to remove the transponder stuff from the rev5 didn't go down too well then? :)

Soon have you running though steve.

[steve-m-uk]

No, Shahid has given him a three month warranty so I can't really blame him for not wanting to mess with it.

Thanks again for all your help. Will let you know tomorrow how it goes. :thumbsup:

[steve-m-uk]

IT LIVES :banana::banana::banana: needed the starter relay negative(white/black) earthing and the COR wire(green/red) earthing,will have to sort the COR in a more permanent fashion once the car has run fine for a couple of days,thanks again Paul for all the help,got there in the end :clap:

[Paul Woods]

Good show mate :thumbsup:

[biteme]

Great stuff. Remote diagnoses!

[steve-m-uk]

If you guys would like to have a look at the progress of this little rev1 then here you go http://www.mr2oc.co.uk/forums/125/125073.html Thanks again for all the help and advice :respekt: