Jaemus's 3rd build ... on the same Aussie car

[Jaemus]

Well, here i go again.

Here's my first build thread.

http://forums.twobrutal.com/showthread.php?t=6323 (http://forums.twobrutal.com/showthread.php?t=6323)

You'll see at the end of it somewhere a little note about how it blew a HG and i just replaced the motor.

Now, the replacement motor has blown its top. Pressurising the cooling system (cracking my radiator too), oil in the coolant, coolant in the oil.

So I'm back in the game!

Here's a current photo, I've had a paint job done :)

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/07/84.jpg

And a shot of the completed conversion.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/07/85.jpg

Today i went and pulled down the old (my first) 3VZ-FE that's been in Dad's shed. It had taken ALOT of water through the head gasket into the rear cyl on the LH bank, the same cyl that had water in it when i got it with an already blown head gasket. I loaded it all into the van in pieces, and im going to see if i can drop it all off somewhere on Monday or early next week to get it surfaced properly this time.

Apologies for phone photos;
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/07/86.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/07/87.jpg

There was also an astonishingly large amount of rust in the valley. It was bad before, but now it's alot worse. It's hard to know if there was a coolant leak there tho, im guessing any coolant that was sitting in there would have evaporated before i pulled the inlet mani off (which i did two years ago).

In the meantime i'll hopefully be able to start pulling out the 3VZ-FE that's in the car. Will find out in which horrible way that one has failed! Interesting it's taken water into the oil / vice versa, unlike the first one that just blew into a water gallery, and pressurized / overheated. Hopefully the heads arent too cooked on that one, cos the ones on the 3VZ in car make some funky noises, thus my decision to rebuild the old motor.

I've rearranged nearly everything in my garage and back yard to accomodate the upcoming work! Fortunately, unlike the first time, i have a nice big double garage with two mk2's in it :) My girlfriend Mel has a dark green SW20 with a BEAMS 3S-GE, and R32 GTR rims. It looks tougher than mine! (Toughness not pictured accurately)

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/07/88.jpg

[hmmmmm]

Loving the new paint job! And that garage looks great! Any pics of the green mr2?

[Jaemus]

tony: well ill reseal that heater pipe as best i can and try not to worry about it then :)
hmmmm: thanks mate! pics as requested, the missus' car:

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/07/90.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/07/91.jpg

[Garbe]

here's to lucky no 3. Good luck with the swap.

[Paff]

Nice one mate, might have to try and stop by visit when I'm in Australia got a mate I'll possibly be meeting up with in Sydney towards the end of next month so be good to see you and your car while i'm there

[Jaemus]

thanks Garbe!

Paff, no dramas at all mate, car will probably be in a million pieces at that stage but that's fun too! just hit me with a PM when youre going to be around and ill organise a meet up

[Whore of Babylon]

AGAIN?!?! :P Man, your gonna get good at the 3VZ swap.

Good luck mate, keep us updated

[2hardtop]

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/160/take20bullwinklemotivat.jpg (http://img140.imageshack.us/i/take20bullwinklemotivat.jpg/)

[Paff]

Sweet, don't worry bout the car being in millions of parts, I'm sort of used to that :)

[Jaemus]

greg, john: "do it once, do it right" - thats just too boring! :) lol

paff: you'll feel right at home :)

[OohMatron]

Sweet, don't worry bout the car being in millions of parts, I'm sort of used to that :)

I bet you'd be glad to give Ben a hand too..!!


greg, john: "do it once, do it right" - thats just too boring! :) lol

paff: you'll feel right at home :)

True, Paff will enjoy the sothern hemisphere sheep........:icon_eek:

[Sparky]

Then well have to make some Velcro gloves available to him.

Well my car died and is still in bits and you will have done the v6 swap 3 times before I even get mine back.

[Paff]

Not long till I get on the plane now, In Cairns for a while (sisters getting married on a beach there). But after thats done, who knows where I'll go first. Theres a few places I have to go so its just working out the order :)

[Jaemus]

very good mate glad youre having fun! give us a holler when you're in town

[Sparky]

Sydney's a hole. Come to Melbourne! :duel:

[Marksman]

Any hole in particular? Some are good, some ar bad... Might help the chap make his mind up. Then again he might like both holes so that won't help him decide at all :hidesbehi

O.S.

[Paff]

Sparky, might end up in Melbourne as well, got a mate I want to see in Adelaide, so could poss detour that way :)

[2hardtop]

Sydney's a hole. Come to Melbourne! :duel:

Yep, Melbourne.

If you want to see a hole. You may as well see Australia's biggest. :duel:





Its the middle of winter here Paff
hope you can handle the chill.

here's a copy of tomorrows forecast for Cairns

CAIRNS
A few showers, chiefly overnight and morning. Moderate SE winds.
MIN 18 MAX 27 (celcius)
UV Alert - 9:20 am to 3:20 pm, UV Index predicted to reach 8 [Very High]
Outlook for Monday ... Mostly fine

taken from
http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/wrap_fwo.pl?IDQ10050.txt


brrrrrr...... 27 ha ha!

[Garbe]

That's about as good as it get here in the summer lol

[MR2_NA]

Gotta say, im hooked on the red car black trim paint.

I couldnt decide what to do though. Defo doing the strips black. Who knows on the roof, maybe to blend the t-bars in some more.

Was gona do the skirts in black, but just started the first coat in 3e5 red. See how it looks, may end up doing them in black.

[Jaemus]

the following were my inspiration;

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/07/182.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/07/183.jpg

http://turbonsx.com/41767.jpg

[Jaemus]

Update time;

Today i have ordered an ARP head stud kit (the GTO one which requires slight modification but otherwise fits) and i crawled under the car and had a good look around. It seems that 3VZ-FE #2 has most of it's oil on the outside. Again not particularly surprising since i never changed any seals or did any work at all when i popped it in - unlike the 3VZ-FE #1 , which is currently sitting on an engine stand behind the car still looking pretty much free of oily greasiness.

The main reason i was poking around under there, however, was to ascertain how much space there is for the juicy part of this rebuild - the turbocharger setup! :twisted:

Given the expense of a big single such as a GT3071R, and my continued theme of getting bang-for-buck with this car, the most economical option apart from a horribly old fashioned single turbo (T3 or some such) or something which isnt all that perfectly suited (CT26 etc) is a twin turbo setup.

Of course, as any one of you've who's ever poked your head under a 3VZ mk2 would know, im inviting myself a world of pain in the piping and plumbing and available space departements - particularly on the rear bank where there is an axle/CV, the exhaust pipe going over the crossmember, and a gearbox mount in the way.

My plan is to modify or remake the rear manifold, or possibly modify a front bank manifold for use on the rear bank, to be as short as possible, thereby keeping the turbo clear of the axle and gearbox mount, and dump it straight over the crossmember and sort it out on that side. This should leave room for the pipe from the front bank to come past in more or less the same place as it currently sits. The outlet on the compressor side will more or less go straight up into the boot, where the air-to-water intercooler will be, and the inlet will possibly have to go through the boot too :P not too sure about that bit yet but i'll figure something out. Yay for piping!

Tonight i'm off to meet with a chap who has a pair of R34 GT-R turbos, those being in the price bracket im after and good quality Garrett units that have ceramic turbines; sometimes scary not a problem for low boost, and good for extra response. They also have nylon composite (PLASTIC!) compressor blades :) Again that should be fine at the low levels of boost it'll be seeing, and together with the ceramic turbine, and 0.4L extra displacement advantage on the RB26 should be providing me with some pretty stupendously short spooling times :)

Stay tuned!

[biteme]

Hi dude - the GT3071 is a little small for the 3VZ application, I know you're talking about bang/buck, etc - but for not a lot of dollars more, you could get the GT3076r which is the absolute minimum for the 3ltr at any reasonable boost.

Check this thread: http://forums.twobrutal.com/showthread.php?t=10849

Also, check out 3VZ-FE's thread on his GT35R powered 3VZ-FE for some pointers on the manifolds and the turbo set up. He made his own mani's, there's certainly some value in looking through and maybe getting some ideas.

Personally, for the 3ltr or larger, I'd only look at T4 footprints. A brace of T3's will work, but might work out more expensive in the long run - as they're essentially having double pipe work, and will cost you more in your time and parts.

Single T4 vs A Pair of T3's? T4 for me everytime.

HTH!

[Jaemus]

yeap i did say 'such as' - but theyre both well out of my intended price range, im afraid.

Much as id rather go the simple route, (and i might admit im a bit worried about heat buildup), the time spent putting it together isnt a problem. And im not too worried about the cost of the extra pipework, as it would take quite alot of pipework to make up the difference in price between the R34 turbos and even a second-hand GT30 series turbo :)

It's all moot now as i've purchased the turbos - unless they dont fit at all!

My power goal is 300hp at the crank btw

[biteme]

A pair of R34 turbos will power the RB26 to 276bhp @ 0.8bar IIRC. (Nod will confirm, am sure).

1.0-1.1 bar is the max on these from I remember from an old friend with an R33GTR, not sure how they stack up with the R34 blowers. There's no reason you can't get 300bhp from them though :)

Only the cams might hurt :)

[Jaemus]

im hoping the displacement will make the difference. In any case they were cheap so i can always upgrade later!

I wouldnt want to go much above 1bar due to the ceramic and plastic wheels :P

[biteme]

Should spool nice and early, that's for you sure! 2.6 -> 3.0 is a 15% increase in displacement.

Do you have ported heads? That might well make a difference in getting the gasses out of the engine.

[Jaemus]

I dont at this stage. I have a chance to get that done whilst they're off - but im a little bit paranoid about doing it myself, and a bit doubtful about finding a local place to get it done, particularly with the general lack of experience engine builders have with camry motors! Wish Tony or Woods weren't many hundreds of miles away :(

What i might do is have a bit of a play around with the heads off 3VZ-FE #2 once i haul it out of the car. They're a bit fragged anyway judging by the sounds they make so i wont be sad if i ruin them, and depending on whats wrong with them if they work out well i can fix them up and put them on 3VZ-FE #1 at a later date, perhaps with some modfied cams in!

I went and dug my spare set of exhaust manifolds out of the garden :) Little bit of surface rust but nothing i cant clean up, will use these to get a general idea of where the turbos need to be placed, how they will need to be 'clocked' if at all, actuator placement, brackets to hold them up if necessary and and make some careful measurements so i can ensure everything will work out space-wise, while i still have 3VZ-FE #2 in the car so i can measure the available space around all the various obstacles.

Meanwhile, im sourcing the following parts:

Head gasket / kit
Turbo oil / water line kit
Intercooler water lines / adapters
Intercooler piping
Silicone joiners / bends
Exhaust piping, flexi's & flanges - stainless steel
Muffler(s)
Boost gauge, turbo timer
7M-GTE injectors, FPR
Piggyback Fuel computer
Fuel pump - Bosch, Walbro, Supra Turbo?
Air filter(s) - once location / size can be determined
Engine "consumables" including sealant, oil, coolant, nuts & bolts, clamps, etc

[Jaemus]

small update,

- i've purchased turbine inlet flanges and oil filter relocation kit
- ARP studs should be here any day now.
- I've also got a line on places to supply exhaust and IC piping and bends, mufflers, piggyback, and gauges
- Watching injectors on ebay
- i've got a local MR2 guy with contacts in japan looking for wider Enkei RP-01's for me just for good measure :)
- i've got another mate who will supply some Z32 calipers for a brake upgrade

[Jaemus]

i have mate, im not sure i have the confidence to tackle it tho :)

i think i should! it certainly seems easier to get parts over there

[hmmmmm]

Damn that red&black nsx is pure sex...

Whats this about Z32 calipers? According to google there from a 300ZX and cost about $250-$300 a pair. But i dont think ive ever seen them on a mk2, what is needed to get this working, any links?

[Jaemus]

Progress:

- ARP studs have arrived
- Genuine Toyota head gaskets are on order and should be here tommorow (strangely theyre cheaper than aftermarket ones!)
- Picked up 6x 7M-GTE injector and tested fitted same in fuel rails, its a drop in fit like the internet rumour mill suggests! The plug faces the opposite way though, i might have to extend the wires?
- Picked up Apexi SAFC Neo and bench tested it, nice bit of kit!
- Picked up Hylomar spray


Now, the tricky stuff. Im into the head gasket preparation department again. This is a bit tense for me as it's where i went wrong the first time.
(Note that this is 3VZ-FE #1, the same one from my original conversion)

From talking to people, its been suggested that i did the following wrongly; (in no particular order)

- Used cheap US ebay head gaskets
- Re-used the original head studs
- Overtorqued the head studs to about double the Toyota spec
- Did not re-torque the head studs after run-in
- Did not have the heads skimmed
- Did not use Hylomar gasket sealant spray

Here's the new plan

Completed:

- Remove the heads and have them skimmed flat by a machinist
- Remove old head gaskets, spray with gasket remover and use a metal ruler to scrape off the old gasket gently
- With 1500grit wet&dry using WD40 as a lubricant, lightly sand the block

Yet to be performed:

- Clean all and re-tap as necessary the head stud holes
- Install ARP Mitsubishi 6G72 head stud kit
- Use genuine Toyota head gaskets
- Spray both sides of same with Hylomar spray
- Install heads and torque to the ARP specs (or Toyota specs?)
- Finish engine installation ... Then after 100k's, remove cams, back off and re-torque all head nuts to spec

Anyone see any dramas here?

Now,

Here are some photos of the stage im currently at.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/08/179.jpg

As you can see theres some scratching here and there around the bore on this cylinder which had taken in the water from when it blew.

In particular the lower right coolant passage concerns me; this is where it looks to have blown under the gasket -its also a bit eroded around the edges.

Now given that ill be doing the head gasket stuff properly, should this be OK?
Or should i perhaps wait and see what the block on 3VZ-FE #2 is like when it comes out of the car?

I can supply more photos if it's not clear from this one.

[Jaemus]

Tony, I'm in your debt as always :) move to Australia already!

I might add i didn't retorque the original fasteners - so you're saying it'd have been bad if i had?

ARP specs it is :) Obvious really when you think about it! They do have the torque specs in the literature that came with the bolts.

[Jaemus]

Progress:

- Turbine inlet flanges have arrived
- Genuine Toyota head gaskets have arrived :)

Ill have to whip the sump off shortly and have a look underneath before i go bolting the heads on, and also get the oil return(s) installed - im off to have a look at some woodsport threads for pics of this!

[Jaemus]

Mounting the rear turbo properly high up, as in, above the cam cover, involves a custom intake plenum - i gave it some thought !

I hear you anyway, got to keep that oil drain from backing up into the turbo. Aerocharger eh, i suspect i can figure it out without resorting to that, but that's interesting to know there is an alternative. Are they expensive?

If it becomes particularly troublesome i can always put the rear turbo above the gearbox and make life easier :)

[Jaemus]

Progress

- Walbro GSS341 has arrived

that about rounds out all the parts that arent specific to the installation, so its time for work to commence!

3VZ-FE #1: I have taken the sump off and dropped it off with my friend who is going to modify it with some oil return points for the turbos :)

3VZ-FE #2: I've started removing it from the car, taken apart everything accessible through the top and started underneath, once i have the downpipes off i can size up the turbo placement situation :)

[Greywolf]

Looking forward to hearing out it comes out Jameus.

[Jaemus]

Thanks greywolf!

Well i've got this week off specifically to work on the car so hopefully some progress will result!

I'm hoping to have the old motor out and the new one fully assembled, hopefully turbos and all, by the 15th :)

- Oil filter relocation kit arrived

Also i've unbolted the factory relocation gizmo and rotated it one stud around - now the filter sits at the bottom of the block and this will allow me to run my relocation hoses neatly around the turbo.

Unbolted the rear brakes and started on removing all the bolts holding the hubs to the crossmember, i will take some measurements and photos before i remove the crossmember so i can ensure the turbo's final location wont interfere with it, and then with it out of the way i can do some test fitting / mocking up / etc

[onyx]

hey nice work ...again :D
how are you going to regulate boost on the gtr turbos? the factory waste gate actuators are around 10-12 psi arent they (especialy with less restrictive inlet and ex)?

i was planning on the same thing but havnt worked out how to limit boost to 6 psi without an external waste gate with a really ligth spring; unless you open and modify the waste gate actuators that come with the turbos.

[Jaemus]

if that's the case, i haven't worked that out yet :)

hopefully pressure drop through the intercooler will drop it a little - otherwise ill just have to get some different actuators.

was hoping it would be a more manageble level standard - will deal with it once it's running :)

[GaryA]

My research lead me to believe the wastegates are 6 psi controlled through a bleed sytem with a valve , anyway thats what i was working to . May be drop Nod a PM , i'm sure he could tell you for sure

[onyx]

ahhh like the 33gts.
i was thinking like my 32gts that was completely relyant on the waste gate actuator but it would make sense ...never mind me. :$

[silvastreak]

ahh just wanna say thanks jaemus for this thread, gives me heaps of heads up on what to watch out for! will be keeping a eye on this one closely

so... any idea if this is going to be road legal mate?

[Jaemus]

well its all certified as it is, to get the turbo setup road legal i will probably have to have it recertified - and that might involve a few other changes, noise test, brakes might need upgrading, possibly other stuff, but under the national code of practise it should be legal to have forced induction 3.0L in a car of this weight

[silvastreak]

ooh, i guess this would probably make you the pioneer in having a turbo v6 in australia (aside from the wtf auto one as im not sure if thats driven on the roads) any update on this jaemus? been checking your thread for more inspiration :D

[2hardtop]

Just to update you guys

Ben has rebuilt the motor and gotten the car back on the road


BUT...

He has now (unfortunately for us) sold the MR2
and is searching for an A80 Supra to replace it.

a youtube ad of the car narrated/shot by Jaemus and featuring his girl(who owns a BEAMS powered SW20)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcbXq0e4l1o