Best way to learn to weld?

[Nige_B]

Now I knew my mk1 needed some welding but after starting the stipdown, it's apparent that my welding bill is going to be daft!:icon_eek:

I've been saying it for years that I need to learn, but I think I'd be a bit stupid to take on this rebuild without knowing how to weld! I've done a bit of searching and there are courses available, but I can't be arsed with all the paperwork and tuition fees etc. I just want to know how to stick 2 pieces of metal together securely.

Would it be daft for me to go out, buy a welder, and attempt to teach myself? I'm not completely stupid :freak3: and can learn pretty quickly, but just don't want to get too cockey and balls me car up! (which would cost me even more money!):roll: .

How did you guys learn?

[Gary Symons]

I guess your best bet is to find a friend that can show you the ropes. Or do what I do and let my dad do all my welding :mrgreen:.

Its a skill I definately need to learn too though.

[semtexcow]

ok im not even close to being what i consider to be a good welder
but ive learnt from a mate of mine who was apprentice taught a rolls royce to do everything, git

you can get away with using a cheap clarke 140amp gas mig, just dont use the pop bottles they come with
i tried for ages to get along with a clarke using pop bottle size co2s
after instruction i got hold of a 10lb co2 bottle and the difference was amazing using the same welder
its like someone makes it half as difficult

next up is clean metal, trying to weld to rusty metal is just making the job difficult for no reason

the thing that really helped when learning to set the volts and wire feed is the sound
something is wrong if when your running a weld if it doesnt sound like bacon crackling in a frying pan

last and the most boring when starting to learn is practice
yeh its the same on old thing of it making prefect, but honestly if you keep practicing 1 day something in your brain will click and it suddenly becomes easy

hope this helps a little :)

[OlberJ]

Practice is your friend, lots and lots of practice on scrap bits of metal.

Check out the videos on the net for the actual process of welding, how to get the angle right, what shape to move the torch in etc.

Then play about with the settings on the scrap metal till you've made the mistakes and worked out how to get the best of it.

And the best tip i can give you is make sure the metal you're welding is actual metal. You can't weld rust, or through paint (most paints), so get it ground down and get that perfect penetrative weld all the time :)

It's a nice feeling welding something just right.

[David Sleith]

Get yourself on a course.

I learnt to weld Oxy and MMA as an apprentice, taught myself Mig and went back to college for AC Tig.

College part time night courses cost nearly nothing as my Tig course was 10 weeks one night a week for 70 quid.

Its the best way to start when someone is able to tell you the correct way to do it and you get to use the best of gear.

Then you need to save up and buy the best gear you can afford as it makes the world of difference having the right tools for the job.

If you just barge in with a crap welder and very little knowledge then you will dishearten yourself from a very satisfying hobby.

[E1uSiV3]

I havent tried to weld anything yet, but i have access to a guy thats been doing it for a career for 40 years so im lucky. I started by reading the theory and see some examples on http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/

[ThreeD]

practice on scrap metal. A magnet will become your best friend, it sticks and u can weld, it doesn't and u don't. If u don't own a machine, I would suggest a wire feed gasless - yes it is of less quality etc. but it sure starts u in the right direction.
If u don't know anyone, or you are not taking a course, a case of beer will go a long way - many shop welders will be pleased to examine your practice pieces and comment. Just be brief and grateful.
My own case was simple - could fix the hole in the eye of a fly with a TIG welder, but didn't even know how to turn on a stick machine. Practice and experiment and don't be afraid to ask. Worst anyone can say is "get lost". Good luck

[Jim-SR]

buy a used MIG (get the best quality you can though, cheap welders make you think you suck, but its not you, its the welder!!)

then get yourself a load of scrap metal and practice! thats the best way really. welding is pretty easy to do, welding to a high quality is just years and years of practice and experience. there is a skill to it undoubtedly, but just about anyone can weld to a strong and acceptable standard with nothing more than practice and experience. that really is the key to it.

some colleges offer evening courses in welding that are quite cheap, but they tend to look at too many methods rather than focussing on just one, so you dont learn a great deal. MIG is the place to start, i wouldnt bother with anything else. once you can MIG then take up TIG. once you can TIG weld there is literally no purpose to EVER using another form of welding in automotive applications. TIG is by far the best welding method for everything car related, but good TIG welders are expensive (£2k+), and it can be more time consuming for simpler jobs, where MIG is just point and squirt and takes no time or effort at all (once youre good at it)

[Nige_B]

Wow! Lots of good advice here, cheers guys :) . I did a mechanics course after I left school about 10 years ago (god it's scary how long ago that was!) which had a welding module. Like you say though, Jim, it was a bit all over the place. It mainly taught me gas but did a bit of MIG and spot too. So I know the very basics, just not enough to be confident lol. I think my main hurdle will be setting the thing up, I'm fairly confident I'll learn quickly after figuring the settings out.

I have been eyeing up a few MIG's on ebay but how much should I expect to pay for a decent enough one £150 - £200? Or more?

Cheers so far though gents:thumbsup:

[David Sleith]

I wouldn't go gasless as they don't get a good name. I had a clarke 150Amp machine which I gave to another TwoBrutal member when I upgraded to a Migatronic and it was night and day easier to use.

Depends on how much your gonna use it. Get the best one you can afford but remember and allow cash for gas and wire. The disposable bottles are expensive and don't last long. A big bottle from BOC etc will set you back about 70 quid a year to rent and the same again for the gas refill every time you need one. I use Argoshield light for the Mig and pure Argon for the Tig.

The cheaper makes such as Clarke, SIP etc get a mixed view but after experiencing the Clarke I wouldn't buy one again.

A 150amp machine will do prob everything you need for your purposes with a max 220amp possible on a single phase supply running a 16amp plug.

Its hard to advise on which welder to buy as everyone has their own viewpoint. The one thing to remember is that you only get what you pay for with welders and the better the quality the more forgiving they are to use.

[Jim-SR]

with regards the best welders to get, youll definitely want to look at used ones just from a financial point of view. if youve got say a £500 budget, youll get a lot more for your money used, and high quality kit lasts a long time if its been looked after.

avoid Clarke, Sealey, Draper, SIP, etc, all those cheap generic brands that make a little of everything. they work and are built decently, but the quality of the weld is just so much harder to perfect. you dont even realise until you use something good! cheap welders can make even a skilled professional look average.

brands to look for are Cebora, Lincoln, Kemppi and Miller id say. Cebora have some cheaper kit available which is good for beginners, they also have some very expensive kit. Miller i think are bigger in the US than over here, you rarely see their welders in the UK but in the US everyone has one. ive used Miller TIG and MIG's, even their entry level TIG welder works pretty well. my favourite welder ive ever used is a Lincoln TIG with water cooling and everything. im a pretty bad welder, purely through lack of practice, but with the Lincoln TIG even i was welding aluminium to an acceptable standard after a day of practicing!! youve just got so much control over the pool with a high quality TIG welder. MIG is just point and squirt, theres less to it, much of the skill is in the initial setup (current and feed rate).

ive got a Snap-On MIG welder, its fairly old but it was free in return for some favours i did a mate when he was moving workshop. iirc the internals are made by Cebora or Lincoln or someone very reputable (cant remember who now), it is just rebadged as Snap-On (as is much of their equipment). its a pretty nice welder to use, i need to get more wire and gas for it though. gas is expensive as David says. £70+ a year just to rent the bottle! so unless youre going to use it fairly often youre paying that money for nothing.

[David Sleith]

I think its Cebora that make Snap on stuff but I could be wrong.

The trouble with second hand welders is that unless you have three phase you are gonna be fighting with loads of folk to try and buy a good quality single phase machine. The three phase stuff goes at a better price for condition because not many folk have a three phase supply.

I would stay well clear of the cheap Chinese stuff from e-bay and take a visit to your local welding suppliers to see what they have to offer. They might have some trade in machines or local branded stuff which will suit your price range. Most decent suppliers will have the option for a demo and try and don't be afraid to say your a newbie as I find them very willing to help.

You could also pop into your local BOC as they normally have a shop selling stuff. They used to stock Lincoln but have moved over to selling Kemppi.

You could add ESAB to Jim's list too. I find my Migatronic machine a good qaulity machine also.

[David Sleith]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MIGATRONIC-185-AMP-250-VOLT-POSS-400-VOLT_W0QQitemZ260405674868QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_3?hash=item260405674868&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1688%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

[peterguk]

If you don't mind a trip over the M62 one evening, come over to us in Barnsley and i'll teach you in our workshop.

[semtexcow]

i got a 2nd hand murex mig off ebay for £300 at about 1/3 the retail
like whats been said already, you get what you pay for
so buy the best you can 2nd hand