View Full Version : Wardie's headwork and Megasquirt thread
Right.....
Had a couple of issues with the V6 of recent, namely a broken rad cap that dropped part of itself inside, and some overheating due to the rad cap and prob this foreign object, and then finally a blown head gasket.
so its time to sort all that out, and getting the headwork done too at the same time.
I am also planning a mega squirt build too, as i was never really happy with the auto ecu or the AFM set up before. but also need to be on a bit of a budget.
so far then, engine is out and stripped down. gasket set ordered from USA and on route. still need to order the squirt thou.
i plan on simplifying the loom as much as possible too, so i will prob have lots of questions to throw around soon when i start that.
i plan megasquirt 2 with v3 board running coil EDIS coilpacks run direct from M/S without the EDIS controllers.wanna run knock control too, but havent worked out if that is supported directly or not.
i will be also sorting out a few other bit at the same time, such as fitting up the crankcase breathers in a better fashion and checking all of the wiring on the car, as my alternator has always been reluctant to chuck out more than 12v at idle.
so generally, just going to hopefully fix lots of little niggles and improve the engine at the same time..
thanks to Tony for all the info on the headwork so far.
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l242/wardie100/GetAttachmentaspx.jpg
Excellent looking forward to another megasquirt thread. Good luck!
Who did you order the gasket set from? did you order head bolts also?
Nice one, looking forward to the MS install too. Are you building it yourself or buying an assembled one?
Where you looking to get the mapping done?
got the head gasket set oiff the ebay guy, cns autoparts, that is mentioned in the cheap 3vzfe parts thread, seemed to have some good feedback.
headset, bolts and postage £90, not bad, even with weak pound.
i am planning to build up the squirt myself, im not too bad with a soldering iron, and have some eperience of building up boards in the past and will enjoy the challenge.
as for mapping i havent quite go that far yet, shame there are not really any base maps around as of yet.
we have a rolling road at uni, so would do it with some of the guys on my course if there was a decent base map, but we only do a bit of mapping on my course, so might leave it to someone with more eperiance to save pulling conrods out of the walls....:hidesbehi
Did you get the full gasket set, or just the headset and bolts. If the latter you should have just ordered from the UK eBay seller.
well head gasket from uk ebay is £60ish with postage, so it not too bad, prob dont work out much cheaper, but couldnt find headbolts on uk ebay, so just went with cns, as they had some good rep on here.. asked to be send marked warrenty replacement, as he did for another member, so hopefully no import tax..
Why don't you just make yourself a megasquirt loom? Would be easier than modding the standard auto loom. Plus, it'll be a hell of alot lighter.
You need a thing called a knocksense for knock sensing and auto ignition retard etc. They're not terribly expencive.
Bevan
well when i say mod the loom, i mean completely rip it down and re make it for mega squirt, im basically just gonna use it for the existing connectors and wiring etc.. most of it will be going,
thought i would need knock sense to run it, just wasnt sure, thanks for clearing that up mate.
You're gonna have loads of fun with this :thumbsup:
£79.50 delivered with head bolts
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-CAMRY-3-0-V6-24V-3VZ-FE-3VZFE-HEAD-GASKET-SET_W0QQitemZ110133211027QQihZ001QQcategoryZ10428Q QssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp163 8Q2em118Q2el1247
lots of fun... cant wait...
Good luck with it, I'm gonna be dropping my engine when summer come. Doing the valve stem seals and probably getting a light weight flywheel in there while its out. May go for some head work, depending on cost.
what are you going for on the flywheel front? fidenza? quite tempted to lighten mine or get a fidenza whilst its off..
Garbe, what went wrong with your stem seals?? Smoking on start or something?
I've got one of those tools from www.toyotool.com works just as in the videos. One of my better investments. If you fill the cylinder you are working on with compressed air, you can change the stem seals without having to remove the heads.
Bevan
well..
£10 more than the uk maybe - whoops,
but CNS autoparts off ebay delivered today, headset and bolts from California in 4 days.. and he marked the package as $40 warrenty replacement,
result.. highly recommended.
Bev, I did see that tool before, just wasn't sure that it would work. May well go this route, saves me having to buy a full gasket kit and head bolts - thanks for the info. What was the shipping charge?
When I replaced the valve stem seals, I think I must have left some of the old rubber in there, as the old seals fall apart when you take them off. Its only minor, but irritating.
so..... just spent the arfternoon/ evening slashing into the loom..
have removed all the gash that is not required for my megasquirt build, AC, A/t and all that good stuff, so now have a loom which is much more stream lined!
lots left to do on it yet, will post up some pics soon,
only thing i am not sure about is the VSV's for the fuel reg and IACV..
Mega squirt is not really gonna put out signals for them, so what can i do here with them?
any ideas welcome..
next job is a relaxing day testing all the loom, cleaning all the connectors, making a few adjustments, and then rewrapping it all, hoping to get some nice rubberised heat shrink for it, and a labelling set to do all the connectors..
That's something I always wanted to do, have a nice tidy loom. :thumbsup:
BTW - I got my gasket set from CNS when I did my engine in 2006.
yeah i have a bit of OCD when it comes to things like this, so i will be well happy when it is all nice and tidy!
after going back through some old threads i see that the ACIS is quite important!
so i will have to make mega squirt work with that vsv then!
but what about the vac line to the fuel reg? i know that the vsv operates to increase the pressure when the engine is warm, to stop vapour lock etc, but is there a problem with having it run high pressure when the engine is not warm? as long as the map takes this into account with regards to injector pulse times right?
or am i missing something?
Hey Wardie,
If you're running a MSII, then controlling the TVIS should be a piece o piss. I assume you'll have your idle controlled by the standard stepper motor? If so, you can can use the FIDL channel to control it as it's already got a transistor in the circuitry from what I understand. You'd still need a relay though. There are plenty of other options though... Have a read:
http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/spare.htm
Since it's the megasquirt controlling the fueling for start and you can tell it what you want it to do, you'll have no worries about skipping that VSV as far as I can see...
TVIS vsv you'll wanna keep though, as it's just 12v that opperates it, and the MSII with a relay, transistors, and resistors as outlined above should let you control the tvis. I've given it a shot with my MSII on the bench with a multimeter and it seems to work ok. Just gota use that transistor so that it doesn't fry stuff by pulling too much current. As I said, I think the FIDL channels built in transistor can handle enough herbs to trigger a relay.
Bevan
great news...
more loom chopping then, ill lose the fuel reg vsv and keep the acis/tvis (whatever u wanna call it) and relay controll it. good times!
thanks for that info mate.
We need some pics :rozzer:
yeah will get some pics soon... promise, just a pile of wires really at the minute, which my housemate keeps looking at with a confused face...
so heads are going up to tony on friday, and i am also planning on making my own manifolds too.. getting a flange laser cut, using the place we use at uni, and then buying in some mandrel bends, and collectors, and going to town with my mate who can tig weld, and of course one of these...:woc:
so my first question is, whats the general opinion on what size primarys to go with?
im thumbing through hilliers atm too to see what it says on this, and 4 stroke tuning too..
its arkward with the square ports and all...
Shit how did I miss that:redface::redface:
I'll be keeping an eye on your progress mate. Good luck!
woooooooo...
just come in from a good few hours working on the loom, whiling away a bank holiday, got an exam tomorrow, but decided i didn't fancy revising for that...
got the loom all striped now, and loosely re assembled with just what i need on it.. just got to add the coilpack wires, IAT wires and it can be shrinkwrapped again.. until i realise i have forgotten something!!
so nice suprise to see Tonys post.. looking good! great news with the flow on that first pair.. great work mate..
BTW, hope your watching the Quattro getting thrashed on Ashes to Ashes!
on the subject of IAT sensors, anyone got one off a 3s engine knocking around? with a pig tail with the connector..? maybe someone who has done a v6 convertion?
epic...
gonna be lovely putting these heads back on all loverly and new like, oh not to mention oh so free flowing...
best make some time to sort the block out some more ready for them!...
Last exam in the morning, so then ill have some time!!
loadswine
20-05-2009, 23:56
Work of art there Tony and looks like nice figures as well. This looks like its gonna be good. :thumbsup:
woooooooooooo...
Its been a while!!!
so quick update - been mega busy at uni, and working full time so MR2 has taken a back seat.. but im about to make a start...
firstly.. this is what ive been building at uni.. and racing...
http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs192.snc1/6448_116348358999_501333999_2174458_1860459_n.jpg
2nd out of 83 teams at hockenheim in germany, competing against teams from all around the world..
anyhooooo...
been up and seen Tony and picked up heads..
:drool2:
http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs135.snc1/5769_136371305878_510660878_3277132_7596731_n.jpg
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs155.snc1/5769_136371345878_510660878_3277135_1060426_n.jpg
:drool2:
had them skimmed as there was corrosion near the fire ring..
however i am also having to send the block off to be decked as there is also some damage and corrosion near to the fire ring and near a water galley too..
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l242/wardie100/deckdamage2.jpg
gonna cost about £80 to be decked apparently, but i have heard good things about the machine shop so i think thats ok price wise ??
time to strip the block now then!
Ok guys and girls,
time for an update, partly cos i need some help and partly cos this is really close to being finished..
so up to this date:
pulled out the engine and stripped down, and as seen, tony did an amazing job on my heads, had the block decked by 12thou and heads skimmed, new main bearings as they were not amazing, all other bearings left - limited budget and all.
rebuilt the engine back up over a period of time and finally dropped it back into the car a few weeks ago..
while it was out i ditched the fuel vapour lines and vaccum tank in favour or a one way valve ontop of the tank, also ditched all the vaccum switches to do with that and the egr, which was gone when paul first fitted engine, and blanked off the coolant lines with plugs. ditched cold start injector and time switch.. again blanked them off.
re located the avis vacuum tank to the boot, fits perfectly where the aerial was, and saves lines running all over the place.
stripped loom and ditched all unused connectors and wires to make a much smaller basic loom.
all went back together, and back onto the standard ecu, megasquirt idea abandoned since the daughterboard project came about!
so now i have it all fitted back in, have been battling to get it started for a week or so.. in the cold, and the snow.. which is pretty demoralising!
had a tps code, which was sorted with a new tps from paul thanks very much to paul :yourock:
now i have no codes being shown, and will jsut about start but will quickly stall, and sounded like it was ignition timing possibly? so have wound the dissy anticlockwise quite a bit, in stages, but have not helped much, and will still not run much, maybe a few seconds, then stall, running very rich, and today i pulled the plugs to check and they were very wet with fuel and black.
since then have checked all wiring, cleaned all earth points, checked dissy cap and leads and cleaned the 3 easy to get to plugs.
anybody got any ideas? i think i have gone to the limit of my diognostic skill,
going to try again since i have cleaned earths.. especially as have cleaned up the ignitor earth, prob check spark quality first.
will i have to clean up the 3 hard to reach plugs? or will they sort themselves once it is running?
all in all a mega bugger of a week been had. not helped by having to recharge the battery all the time!
i have also loosened off the alternator belt now a bit, incase that was too tight..
thats how desperate im getting!!
finally, i am 99% sure that the timing belt is correct as i did it on the stand, double checked it, and then span it round a few times and re checked..
any help would really be appriciated, i know that its hard to diognose over the internet, but im kinda hoping that i have overlooked something, or that this has happened to someone before!
thanks.
seeems cleaning up the earths has helped, got it running better, will actually run now, but hunts around on idle, backfires when reved, and stalls easily too, adjusting the dissy doesnt help much,
Checked spark and am getting a good strong spark, but bit orange rather than blue.. could that be cos its so cold?
pulled a plug again and they were black and sooty now rather than wet.
im thinking that the ignition circuit is better now,
also, more worrying was a whining noise coming from the front head! what could that be!!!!!
ARRRRGGGGH!
Posted as you got her going....sounds rich to me mate, oxy sensor reading ok? She'll run rich from cold idle anyway so expect sooty plugs.
Try another coil pack if you've not got a nice fat spark.
BSM
heres a video too if that helps anyone diognose:
image is useless cos it dark, but u can here the whine!
http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l242/wardie100/?action=view¤t=VID00004-20091219-1558.flv
on the topic of coil packs i did check the primary and secondary coil reading and the primary coil was 11 ohms, manual states 0.3ohms as a max so this could be a prob, but the spark does seem nice and strong, just orange not blue??
no fault codes on the o2's, no codes at all.
and that whine... wtf?
This is realy getting me down..
Hmmmmmm that doesnt sound to good.. Can you check the timing with a light gun? And if the sound is coming from 1 of the heads, maybe check the cam timing?
i guess i best check the cam timing first job. really sure it was ok, but worth a check, check the anti backlash gears, and set the static timing.
i will set it acording to the manual, is this the best way? lining up the marks on the dissy and bearing housing whilst #1 is at tdc?
Luke Loram
19-12-2009, 20:03
Nice work there.
I'm sure you'll get it running right.
Those are some nice flow numbers.
What did you find on the exhaust ports? They're dog legged aren't they?
Also what pressure are you testing at?
I'm thinking of doing a V6 conversion and modding the heads etc.
It would be nice to be able to make some comparisons.
here u go mate, heres the graph of before and after.. as for pressures thats a question for tony.. he did all the skilled work!
as for getting it running, i hope so.. im feeling pretty gutted right now...
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l242/wardie100/Tpe4v6AW01-02.jpg
o...k.....
8 hours later and it still struggles to start.. is lumpy on idle.. and wont rev/ backfires..
what i have done today :
cam covers and timing belt covers off, checked cam timing.. it was perfect.
checked backlash, and corrected one cam! which has eliminated the whine it seems.
cleaned every earth on the engine and in engine bay, filed and wet and dried them clean and re tightened.
checked coil and is within spec.. primary and secondary sides. where fine
static timed it, by setting to tdc #1 and lining up mark on bearing cap with the ridge on the dissy housing. then turned to 10 deg btdc and checked that rotor was pointing right at #1
checked all leads, checked front bank plugs cleaned dissy, cleaned rotor..
all were pretty fine, plugs were sooty but not wet.
re assembled it all.
i didnt clean the rear bank plugs as my short extention is missing in action, and couldnt invent anything else that would get down the hole..
also couldnt check quality of spark as was on my own..
no fault codes
so..
if i had wet plugs the other day should they be cleaned now that i have a spark? or will they clean them selve up naturally?
should it run ok ish when statically timed? i am getting timing light tomorrow..
any ideas on what i should check next???????
HEEEEEEELLLLLLPPPPPP
:swear::swear:
ukpaisley
20-12-2009, 16:57
Do you hav any way of monitoring the fuel pressure ?
If you have it starting, try to let it warm up before reving and seeing if its better.
You may need to change the plugs out, sometimes a good clean isnt enough.
i did connect up the fuel lines wrong way round at first, could that have knackered the fuel reg?
i might be able to sort out a fuel pressure guage,
the plugs were new.. got wetted from having no spark, and 3 were cleaned, 3 havent been.. yet...
i will try and sort out a way of checking the pressure..
ukpaisley
20-12-2009, 18:48
Fuel pressure regulators dont like to be open to atmosphere for long, better off beeing sealed in bag if thery are not used, or the ends plugged.
i will try and sort out a way of checking the pressure..
This'll probably horrify you, but I once made a fairly nasty fuel pressure tester using an old broken electric tyre pump (it had a pressure gauge on the side, so I stripped the pump and kept gauge plus tubing) and a t-piece into the fuel line between pump and injectors. Wasn't perfect and would never drive the car with it fitted, but it didn't leak and did the job at the time.
I'm half tempted to tap my rail for a schrader type valve so I can use it as a check point and as a self-sealing fuel takeoff so I can 99% empty the fuel system using just the in-tank pump.
edit: If you can get hold of a decently rated pushbutton switch you can put together a pushbutton starter for your car for when you're trying to crank the engine while working in the back.
ok, time to see if i can get closer to a working car agin tomorrow!
all this snow, xmas and exams has got in the way, so will be faulty finding my way round this issue tomorrow i hope.
first thou, a quick question which is bugging me, is it possible to get the exhaust cams in the wrong heads? and would it cause the symptoms i have?
i was very anal about labelling everything, but the timing is spot on after checking too many times, so i see this as being a possible cause.. adter all the problem really sounds like a timing issue!
cheers..
yeah i spent a while thinking about it, including lots of hand gestures to work it out, and i figure they do fit in wrong, and that it would be something like 60 deg out.. or 120 maybe... lol... plus or minus... :-s
the EPC seems to show two part numbers, but how do u tell the differance! i am certain i marked the bags they were stored in, but after that who knows!
I dont think its possible, you would probably be able to place them wrong way round, but then you wont be able to install the timing gear. And for example the intake 1 caps are covering a cilinder type plate on the cam ( dont really know how to explane this in english, see page EG-76 in the repair manual), so it wouldnt be logical to install them that way.
For identification, i believe theres a number on the hexagonal wrench head portion of the camshaft.
well the timing dots lined up perfect.. so cant be that then!
back to the drawing board!
thanks for taking the time to have a look tony. ur a star.
hi all,
been a long time, but the weatehr was finally cosistant with working on the car today,
and it runs!!
turns out two of the pins on the dissy connector where wrong way round.. G2 and G-,
all sorted now.. just need to stop the loss of water??....!!! radiator ho!
FINALLY!
Car is back on the road as of today! just sailed through MOT (after i reminded them a car with no cat isn't going to pass a cat test....) its been a long time since i stripped her down to get tony's headwork done, but was also off the road as i couldn't afford to run her whilst at uni, well im graduating now, so shes back!
i will get some pictures of whats been done and hows shes looking but heres an update on what i have done..
tony's awesome headwork, and also a tiny skim on both heads to remove some corosion pitting (1thou ish iirc)
block decked, 12 thou off to remove corosion damage on block mating face.
new main bearings as they showed slight signs of wear and. all other bearings not changed as well within spec and not surface damage.
rebuilt up with all the usual replacements.
engine loom stripped out, all the obsolete stuff removed and re-wrapped
cold start injector removed.
charcoal canister removed and one way valve fitted to tank breather.
iac vaccuum resivoir relocated to boot (bolts up to aerial mountings perfect)
all new cooling system - new rad as it was weeping, replaced heater hoses by removing tank and removing old pipes and running rubber hoses straight from engine to the frunk, to remove HFH and reduce amount of joints. new thermostat and rad cap.
fitted rev 3 rear lights and rev 3 wheels, refurbed in a darker gunmetal almost silver/grey.
think thats about it, but its taken a long time doing it bit by bit and in the cold and snow etc..
seems all running good now, cooling system is perfect, after some serious effort to burp it, and engine is sweet except a couple of last problems to sort-
*slight warm misfire which i hope a new dissy and arm will fix, as leads seem in good condition and resistances were in spec.
*seem to lack fuel pressure on start-up, struggles if left for a period of time and takes a few more seconds to start.
*leak from the oil level sensor plate on sump, but im gonna tig a plate over that when i change out the mineral oil im running in with in a couple of days.
*and finally really need some toyota wheel bolts as i have tapered ones on it atm, which is not a very good idea at all! (anyone got any? else its off to ebay to spend loads of money)
finally despite the title, unfortunately i am now not doing the megasquirt build - unfortunately cash flow, time and the fact jon is working on the daughter board left me to scrap that idea!
will take lots of pics in the next couple of days and hopefully some nice video..
:driving: :cool: :thumbsup:
tons of work done on this, nice condition engine.
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