View Full Version : Brakes - what to do?
Photoshoot
21-01-2009, 10:16
Ok so the opinion of Rogue is that my front brakes are shite...
What to do? It has the St205 Front brake setup
Rev2 Mk2 Rear calipers with grooved and vented Corado G60 discs.
They reckon just going back to stock with uprated pads would be a better option. All their track cars run on this set up. This way I would also be able to get some 15s on.
Other then that I could go for the KWS Uprated brakes - but I may end up waiting near towards the summer to get them - and I do reckon it's an issue I should address asap...
I could just get the st205s taken off and reconditioned, just don't want them to throw up any probs and become expensive.....
Advise?
Ok so the opinion of Rogue is that my front brakes are shite...
any more detail on the problem?
Photoshoot
21-01-2009, 11:28
lots of squeaking
poor perf... defo doesn't feel like an upgrade.
pads are not worn..
I'm just addressing the cost issue. It'll cost £150 to strip down and diagnose the prob. Is this worth it..?
whats the brake bias like with this setup? and does this bigger set up lead to more pedal travel due to bigger/more pistons?
Does it still have the original brake master cylinder or did you upgrade it to the Mk2 turbo (non abs) unit?
edit: Just realised you have David Sleiths old car, David had issues with his brakes originally Link to old thread (http://forums.twobrutal.com/showthread.php?t=8125) I thought he resolved his problems though.
Jiff Lemon
21-01-2009, 13:34
lots of squeaking
poor perf... defo doesn't feel like an upgrade.
pads are not worn..
I'm just addressing the cost issue. It'll cost £150 to strip down and diagnose the prob. Is this worth it..?
Ex-squeeze me? £150??? just to look at it?? :eek2:
ST205 are legendary stoppers; Squeeking is par for the course. Copperslip 'em and the squeeking stops for a few days, only to return a few days later!
can you clairfy "poor performance" - I remember doing some fairly brutal brake testing with Stu in Penelope, so I can vouch for just how well they can perform!
Any idea what make of pads in there? No some "track spec, need an hour to warm up" jobs?
Usual things checked? Calipers the right way up, all bled nicely?
whats the brake bias like with this setup? and does this bigger set up lead to more pedal travel due to bigger/more pistons?
I worked out bias to be sommat like 80% front, just based on piston area. Not taking into account the bigger discs and bias valve.
I should think it makes the pedal quite soft, even with a mk2 master cyl.
Photoshoot
21-01-2009, 14:44
[QUOTE=Jiff Lemon;178769]can you clairfy "poor performance" [PHP[/PHP]QUOTE]
Well I'm pretty sure they are not track pads! I'm no mechanic but they just don't stop the car very well or very quickly!! I think they may just need stripping down and bleeding. But the fact is I still won't be able to get 15s on with the calipers.
Any1 out there with some standard calipers? Fink I may just upgrade the discs/pads for now and then go for the big brake upgrade in the future.
il swap you my standard calipers for your ST205 setup? lol
hell, il swap you my freshly reconditioned ST185 setup for it! theyll work if they are all in good working order, the ST205 setup should be awesome. if its been badly installed and not enough consideration has been given to bias and other such issues then theres a chance it could just not work
either way, id genuinely swap the ST185 brake setup for the ST205 setup. its not on my car, its sat in a box waiting. and they bolt straight on and would work out of the box. calipers (with carriers), discs and OEM pads. youd probably want some better pads in there, DS2000's ideally. they fit under MOST 15" rims as well. but not all of them, some rims with strange internal lips and things cause issues
Photoshoot
21-01-2009, 15:14
Jim - I may take u up on the offer. From what I've read the 185 set up is very good also. I'd stick with the 205 but I really want 15s on and they defo won't do...
Prob is that the car is at Rogue and prolly will be for a while. Would it be poss 4u to post em out directly to Rogue. Once they are on and swapped. I'll box em and send the whole lot straight out 2u?
that could possibly work. im not in need of them for my car for the forseeable future, so the timing isnt an issue.
wouldnt mind having some good quality pictures of your ST205 brakes though, bearing in mind my ST185 ones are mint and rebuilt, so i wouldnt want to swap for some ST205 ones that are in really bad shape. they probably arent that bad if you were still driving the car, but if pictures are possible then that would be nice
they look nice in the pics..
nikwills
21-01-2009, 18:33
What brake lines are you using - I got a local company xracing to make me up s/s braided hoses that go from the calipers to the splitters front and rear, this gives you minimal joints, it cost me about £180 for the 4 lines including fittings, to buy new steel pipes and rubber hoses I was quoted £220 without fittings from toyota. I believe Paul fitted st185 calipers up front and refurbed the rear std calipers at the same time as the V6 was put in now I've done about 800 miles the brakes are most excelant - shwing!!
brakes are most excelant - shwing!!
lol Class.
Your brakes might not be working correctly but that doesn't mean they're shite.
ST205's are mad, you can near enough do endo's on them. If yours aren't doing that then there is a problem somewhere.
I'm still trying to work out how it's £150 to undo 6 bolts and pull the pistons apart, but hey, rogue by name and all that :P
If you do swap Jim for his ST185's you should be able to get them on under the 15's and they'll work great. Just mind you'll have to pay to get them fitted. Might well be your best option if you're downsizing.
Bear in mind, the car wasn't built as a track car but a fast road car, so what's better for the track may not be better for the road.
just for info i have a set of standard calipers of my car sitting around, free , if you want them, took em off when i changed to st 165 setup( which is very good on a standard car!).
I can't actually believe someone has suggested that Mk1a brakes are better than ST205's.
Seriously, what the fuck? lol
robwsurf
21-01-2009, 22:23
my mk1a front brakes were awfull rebuilt calipers new discs and bedded in properly and then the warp almost instantly ! and before that they never really felt like you could trust them that you were going to stop in time, cant wait to try my st205 s
Photoshoot
21-01-2009, 23:18
Jim - There are a couple of pics at the beginning of this thread. If u want more I can take some the next time I go down to Rogue (it's only 15min drive so I should be able to do it fairly quickly).
Think Rogue charge at least 2 hrs labour to swap them over.. (£100).
Which uprated pads would u recommend? Best to upgrade discs as well?
Marksman
23-01-2009, 19:29
Sorry, bonkers thread! (And we don't criticise anything on TB generally.)
If the reason to change is to revert to 15's then fair enough. (I've chosen to run ST185's instead of 205's because I don't want big heavy wheels on my track car.)
If however you're thinking of getting rid of 205's to revert to standard to increase braking power then that's just nuts! Your 205's are simply not working. Big disks and 8 pistons vs. icle disks and 2 pistons should be no contest at all. Methinks your 205's are not working.
Sorry for the hostile sounding post, but sometimes there is a time to speak up. Also to note, 205's are fixed (with a pair of pistons on each side of the disk) so no more seized sliders, ever.
I'd say take your car somewhere else, get the 205's working properly, and then make a decision.
Just my 2p's worth of course.
Peace and goodwill.
Owen.
Photoshoot
23-01-2009, 19:47
Hey Owen. I totally agree with your opinion... But I just realised that having 15s on the car is more important to me then the 205s. I know the 185s are also a really good upgrade over stock...
Sorry mate - think I never got my point across clearly. I've read loads about the st205s and I know (when working) are amazing. Just woould like some v light wheels for the track...
Marksman
23-01-2009, 20:02
Fair play :thumbsup:
I think I'd rather own a MK2 than a MK1 with 17 inch/cartoon wheels. Sorry Paff :moon:
Owen.
Owen.
I got 16's over my st205 brakes. the handling was transformed from when i had 17's and the 205 brakes are so good that i had to get harnesses to stop the windscreen squishing the end of my nose!
Seriously, keep the brakes and get them working. If rogue cant do it, then take it to someone who can!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/283.jpg
Heres a 205 disc and a 185 disc compared:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/10/285.jpg
Oh, and i think my OZ rims are pretty light too, much easier to lift than my old 17's. Wish i'd weighed them.
They're not called Superlights for nothing lol
Unfortunately "Proxes" is burmese for " heavy as feck" so this balances out the wheels a wee bit :)
bit late now, a set of ST185 brakes are on their way, and a set of ST205's returning to me :)
Photoshoot
24-01-2009, 10:04
Sorry in adance for sounding a bit thick but don't all tyres weigh pretty much the same? I was gonna wrap the 15s in Toyo T1s?
Yeah, i was just trying to be funny :(
Photoshoot
24-01-2009, 11:25
Can never be too sure with these tuning companies... I'm sure they will bring out some xtra light tyres....
Just fill them with Helium instead, that'll sort you out :thumbsup:
Sorry for the tread hijack but a quick brake question. I want the best option for the rear brakes on my mk2. I can get Rev2 turbo calipers for about 115 pounds, but im wondering if theres a major difference between the the rev2 and rev3 brakes? Any difference in size or pad etc? I know the awnser is around here somewhere but i can find it..
Nah, all rev2+ are 22V's. Same sizes.
Great, ordering a set now, tnx for the intel :thumbsup:
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