Project MV8R

[cbulen]

To the TwoBrutal forum owner or mods: I think you are going to need a V8 swap section in the forum. I am not sure where to put my thread. Does it belong in the Mk2 general swap banter ?

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Project MV8R
(named after the Sard Racing MC8R LeMans Twin Turbo V8 racer based on the MR2 mk2)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/17.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/18.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/19.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/20.jpg

The powertrain fit a little better than expected. If it weren't for axle/suspension interference, it would be possible to put this powertrain into the car with NO cutting! However, due to the design of this transaxle, cutting is definetly required. HOwever, it won't be a lot of cutting.

In the photos above, the powertrain needs to be raised about 3-4 inches. I have to make the tranny notch on the left side of the frame larger to match the tranny I am using, as the notch only matches the E153/S54. ONce I make the notch larger (I am going to attempt to do this by hammer rather than cutting), I will be able to raise the powertrain to thier correct/final location.

________
CBulen
Project MV8R
sign up for the build manual at http://www.mv8r.com/

[Whore of Babylon]

hmmmm nice

[dgh938peg]

well done cbulen! Looks impressive, how long till she's running?


PS - bit of a short build thread pmsl!

[Goldy]

Nice work great idea.... more pictures please! :)

[OlberJ]

Sweet indeed. Loving how neat that looks in there.

Can we have some more info on the Northstar engine? What's it put out etc and what you got planned for it?


V8 burbles, oh yes.

[Paul Woods]

Great build! I saw a northstar in the flesh a few years ago and nearly had heart failure,thats a beast of an engine.

[MRV6]

Great work mate, ohh a v8 in a mk2. Any more pics??

[cbulen]

This is the initial fitting only. The V8 is NOT mounted, or running, or driving, etc. It is sitting on a tranny jack. I needed to test fit the motor to see if I should proceed with the project, to see if I should go ahead with permanent modifications (cutting frames, axles, etc.).

I am using the Vin 9 version of the N*. Its rated for 300hp and 295 ft-lbs, at a slightly higher RPM than the Vin Y flavor of N* (the difference is in the cams, I believe). Redlines at 6500rpm. Slightly lower than the Audi ABZ (7000 rpm).

I feel now, that the project is feasable and realistic, so I am going to proceed.

Plans are to just get the thing running/driving. That's enough for now. Bumping HP is something I will look into once the thing is running/driving. I have 2 MR2's. The one pictured is my $900 junker. Once the V8 is mounted/running, I plan to swap the drivetrain into my good 93 turbo. My 93 is in beautiful condition, and this is the car I really love, so I want it to have the V8.

________
CBulen
Project MV8R
sign up for the build manual at http://www.mv8r.com/ (http://www.mv8r.com/)

[OlberJ]

Nice one.

So what gearbox are you using, is it the Fiero one?

[cbulen]

No, the Getrags in the Fieros are weak. The Fiero guys (the ones with a little money) are now using the GM F40 6 speed from the 2006 Pontiac G6 GXP.

The box is derived from the Saab 9-3. I think its pretty much the same as teh saab unit, with a different bellhousing bolt pattern. Saab 9-3 and 9-5 axles fit this trans. The Quaife LSD for the Saab F40 fits the G6 F40

________
CBulen
Project MV8R
sign up for the build manual at http://www.mv8r.com/ (http://www.mv8r.com/)

[OlberJ]

Nice one. All top info.

Just a shame we don't get the N* over here but will still be following this build with interest.

[podge]

nice project be good to see this one progress:thumbsup:

[cbulen]

I have added a HUGE faq (and still growing) to my thread on the MR2OC.com. You will need a membership to read it (free). I don't have time to post a second copy of the FAQ here and maintain it.

http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?p=3596875#post3596875



________
CBulen
Project MV8R
sign up for the build manual at http://www.mv8r.com/ (http://www.mv8r.com/)

[cbulen]

Cut N paste from the other threads I have going:

Today, I cut my 91na. I cut a good size section from the pass side, and a smaller section from the driver's side. The driver's side only needed the factory tranny notch extended furthur aft. I found that I am not able to move the whole drivetrain to the right as I had hoped (to help the left side axle). If I did, it would require a LOT more frame cutting. I am trying to avoid cutting the frame where the rear crossmember bolts go into the frame. If I have to move the powertrain to the right, I will have to cut into that area.

I was able to raise the motor into a position very close to its final location. At this point, I just need to fine tune my cutting a bit, to provide room for the powertrain to shake while it is running (during acceleration, engine braking, etc).

I am ecstatic that I was able to do very little cutting to make this powertrain fit. I did not even cut off the right side stock engine mount ears! Cutting them is not necessary to make the powertrain fit. However, I might end up doing that anyway, just to make it easier to work on.

Today, I fine-tuned my chassis cutting. I also added a dent to the trunk firewall to give clearance to the right corner of the rear valve cover. I believe that I now have the motor in pretty much its final location (still sitting on a tranny jack). I also found I was unable to move the whole assembly to the right as I wanted to do to help the left axle. The reason was because the right shock tower is not vertical, but tilts inward, towards the engine compartment. The N* is close to hitting the tower near the top, just under the vacuum line bolt, under the engine lid prop-rod hole.

I checked the rear crossmember clearances and found I need to take a chunk out of it. The final drive of the F40 is located futhur aft than the E153/S54 by 2 or 3 inches.

Today I cut a BIG notch in the crossmember to clear the differential part of the tranny case. The F40 diff is a lot furthur back (towards the rear of the car) than the E153/S54. Unfortunately, its not enough to just notch the Xmember. The CV joint of the left axle will interfere with the Xmember in a big way. The super long bolt that holds the Xmember on -- the right front bolt of the Xmember, is in the way as well.

Fortunately, these can be rectified with a custom crossmember, made from tubular steel. Also fortunate is the rear suspension lower control arm attach point is pretty much out of the way.

However, when I create the new crossmember, I will have to get very very creative to pick that point up, as I cannot go from the Xmember to the pickup points in the same way that Toyota did it, which was from the rear and inboard of the joint. I will probably have to come up from the rear and underneath the pickup point.

Its a good thing this is a 91 Xmember that I cut up, and not the one from my 93T ! So, when I swap everything over to my 93T, I will probably just sell that stock Xmember. So now I will need to buy some 93+ rear tie rods.

________
CBulen
Project MV8R
sign up for the build manual at http://www.mv8r.com/ (http://www.mv8r.com/)

[cbulen]

The latestest pix. First, I am showing that the engine/trans is now higher in the car, very close to its final position. To help with the crossmember situation, I currently have the drivetrain forward in the car as much as I thought I could safely go (near the front firewall). I may move the whole kit-and-kaboodle rearwards by an inch or so, since I have decided to not fight with the stock crossmember. This will give me more peice of mind, and give the engine a little more room to rock.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/87.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/88.jpg


This is the earlier Xmember, and you can see the pickup points for the rear tie rods. The tie rods are not installed.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/89.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/90.jpg



A view looking towards the left side of the car. I plugged the jackshaft in just for grins.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/91.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/92.jpg



The meat of the problem: the left side axle area

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/93.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/94.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/95.jpg


Here is the offending crossmember bolt:

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/96.jpg
Views from above:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/97.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/98.jpg

________
CBulen
Project MV8R
sign up for the build manual at http://www.mv8r.com/ (http://www.mv8r.com/)

[cbulen]

Update: Please see my April 2009 newsletter at www.MV8R.com (http://www.MV8R.com) for pix and details.

Summary:
I may have discovered a way to use the stock MR2 crossmember. I fooled around with steel tubing and a tubing bender that I bought, and estimated it would take me a month or two to build a crossmember I liked. I built one version, cut it apart, and built a second version. I decided that Ver2 would be a mockup for the final version.

I then decided to try building the front engine mount. During the course of this, I discovered that I might be able to move the engine furthur forward. I then thought if I tilted the engine slightly, I could use the stock crossmember. This was not obvious in my prior attempts to figure out engine placement. Its one of those things where you have to keep trying different things, and experiementing with different things, both of which eat up a lot of time and effort, and most of the things you try don't work. I built two different front motor mounts before I was happy with it.


Anyway, I now have the front mount mostly done to the point where it can support engine weight. The same is true for the rear mount. It attaches to the stock crossmember which now fits with some minor modifications. Using the stock cross member means saving a whole lot of time, and makes the project easier for future swappers who follow in my footsteps.


I am now working on the passenger side (the right side of the car) mount. The driver's side (left side) mount will be tricky and require some creativity, as the GM F40 transaxle has no provisions on top of it to mount it to the car. The mount points are low, and to the outside of the trans. The MR2 is set up for a top mount of course.


I also will be working on the intermediate shaft (jackshaft) support, aka the ball bearing carrier. Once these are done, I can determine the axle lengths have either modify some Porshe 928 axles I have (basically using them as axle stock, as there are two different splines on each axle), or have axles made from bar stock. I do not believe I can modify either the MR2 turbo axles or the Pontiac G6/F40 axles. TheG6 axles are too skinny for the MR2 spline, and the MR2 axles are just a hair under the OD of the G6/F40 spline. The 928 axles are fatter by 2mm than everything, and they are nice and long giving me lots of material to work with.


I also have been researching a ECM solution, and may have found something.


I have also obtained a Northstar flywheel (no such thing as OEM northstar flywheel), clutch disk with the correct F40 spline and pressure plate. I obtained a pontiac clutch master cylinder so I will now be able to check the clutch operation and clearances.