Help wiring 3sgte -> aw11 (Gen3) [Archive] - Woodsport Forum & The TB Archive

Singularity

31-10-2008, 17:55

I was following paul Woods wiring diagram.. but it for a gen2. I have a gen3, and I've run into problems.. and Paul doesn't reply to my PM's.. so I hope someone can help.

1. In Pauls guide it say to solder Bk/Ye COR wire onto a few other wires.. A12 and A13 are some of them.. and in the A plug there are no A13 wire. only the A12. what do I do ?

2. Next page he says to check continuity to the alternator (Bk/Ye).. my car is on the ground, and I can't lift it up.. I made continuity to the vsv beside the big resistor looking things on the rear firewall next to the overflow tank neck. Is that ok to use that wire ?.. I think so, but not sure. (it's also a Bk/Ye wire)

3. I jumped over the pages where he tells you to extend alternator wires, as I'm using 5sfe bracket in original position.

4. The injector wires were 4 thick wires (2 was in the same connection) Bk/Re. I joined them together like it says in the guide, but I also joined in the thin wire on the opposite sdie of the plug.. cause it was the exact same color, and I thought it was a gen2/gen3 thing.. should I have left the thin wire away ?.. there is only the thick blue wire left in the small white plug now.

5.Wiring the clocks.. first wire.. Gr/Wh from ECU that connects to pin 1 on N1 connector.. well.. there is no wire in pin1 on N1.. I have a newer harness from another car, and I can see the wire there.. so I guess it's cause my car is an older version.. but which wire on the N1 do I use then ? there are no Gr/Wh wire at all, so it's not cause it's moved.

6. Tacho signal wire.. he says there are few black wires in the big white plug.. there are 2.. one is Bk/Wh.. the other is all Black. To choose the right one, make conuity to the amplifier under the coil... I don't know if I'm doing it right , but under the igniter, there is a 2pin plug, I pulled that off, and made continuity from both blacks to both those wires.. nothing.. I guess I'm not doing that right.. Anyway.. can someone just tell me if it's the Black or the Bk/Wh wire I use ? - much easier =)

7. there are only used 6 wires from the 22pol ecu plug, and lots of wires just hang out.. are all the others not used ?.. same goes for the N1 connector.

John - Denmark.

Paul Woods

31-10-2008, 18:36

I was following paul Woods wiring diagram.. but it for a gen2. I have a gen3, and I've run into problems.. and Paul doesn't reply to my PM's..

excuse me? i reply to everyone mate.

Download the rev3 wiring in the downloads section first of all.

1. yes just a12 will do fine.
2. ive no idea what you are saying here.
3. that will work too but you need to notch out the suspension bracket for the alt to recess into.
4. disconnect that thin B/R wire
5. do you have any G/W wire on the N1 at all?
6. its the black one as per the guide,not the B/W one.
7. thats correct

Singularity

31-10-2008, 20:56

Ahh, good to hear from you again.

1. good to know that only a12 is needed =)
2. I'm saying that I can't do the continuity to the alternator, so I was aiming to do continuity to the vsv, tvis, vsv's in the system, if it's the right one on the string. the color of the wire is the same, so I was hoping I did it right by soldering to that wire. (refering to the left pic, left/over the 2 brick looking things)
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2008/10/253.jpg
3. I heard that the 5sfe bracket can hold a 4age or a st185 alternator in the original position without having to move it to celica position.. is that not true ?
4. Ok, I'll cut that wire loose again.
5. No, I have none of that color. none before the plug nor after it. Old wiring from 85 ? I don't know which wire to solder to =(
6. great, I'll solder to the fully black wire.
7. ok, loads of loose wires. I'll just wrap them up individually, and put everything together under the plastic wrap thingies from toyota.
8. what about the small and large white plugs in the engine bay ? just cut everything and put in the wrap thingies ?

nice guide you made btw. the problems I adress here are things that could go in a revision, if you ever wanted to. I'm not good with engines, and I hardly know anything about what's what on the 3sgte. I have a thread on MR2OC (same username) under mk1.5 where I have pics of every step I make. I just threw the whole thing in the chassis on carls mounts without using a jig. I just looked at the pics and estimated where I had to have the mounts,, and everything fits anyway =) I guess I was lucky, or the mounts don't have to be that exact. I've done the whole conversion on open public street / parking lot. So I've had some difficulty. Look at the thread and answer some of the questions if you have an hour to kill :D I'm using your brake upgrade also =)

John - Denmark

ps. the charcoal canister.. on a scale from 1-10 how important is that ?.. I was thinking of looping the 2 hardlines on top of the intake, behind the TB with a piece of hose and leave it off.. just block off the fuel pipe with a hose also.

Paul Woods

01-11-2008, 08:29

2.i still dont know what you are referring to here.... i will take my best guess,power up the alternator by providing 12v ign to the black/yellow wire and join the yellow one to the yellow in your n1,then join the remaining white wire to 12v batt.As for the tvis,vsvs ,iscv,etc,run that black/yellow wire to 12v ign source.

3.yes it will but people have had to notch out the suspension bracket to make room.

5.ok,take your clocks out and trace along the circuit board from the CEL,you will then find its wire on the clock plugs,do a continuity test from here back to the N1,that will give you the correct wire,but it really should be in pin1 G/W on all aw11's.

8. just tidy it all away

ps if your aw11 had a charcoal cannister then you must re-use that,if you mean the cannister that came with the turbo engine and your aw11 doesnt have it then junk it.

Singularity

01-11-2008, 15:14

adamh

01-11-2008, 21:52

buy a belt to fit is the usual procedure, just put the alternator on, then pull the two pulleys (crank pulley and alternator pulley) as close possible, then move the alternator back away 10mm, then put a peice of string around both the pulleys. Hold the string where it meets, take it off carefully still holding it, and measure the length of that piece of string with a tape measure or somehting.

go buy a gates belt from the parts store ask for................ 4PK + *length in MM* =

for instance an accessory (alternator) belt when using the top position celica st165 bracket is 4PK1075 or 4PK1040 which means, ( 4 rib belt 1075mm long etc etc), this is not your size as you do not use the celica top mount bracket, you must measure your size. They sell belt lengths usually in 5mm - 10mm steps. i hope this helps.

adamh

01-11-2008, 22:05

I don't even have the alternator bracket on, or the alternator.. the guy who sold the bracket to me was 2 months sending it.. so I decided to put the engine in without it. I have the bracket now, and only have the 4age alternator.. Another guy told me that it wouldn't fit but it does fit the bracket.. I don't know however if it fits the belt. do you know ?.. it's an NA alternator.

This fell off..

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/11/6.jpg

can the motor start without it attached ?.. I cranked if a few times, but battery was not charged alot, so.. but I came to think of that little canister.. it sits on my desk, and I forgot to reattach it.

make your life simple, attatch the alternator, wire it up, check its working and getting + 12v voltage from battery before you run it. dont waste your time trying to run the car without an alternator it will last little time and cause you no end of electrical problems and confusion with under voltage.

the item pictured, its probably a vacuum tank from under the manifold, put it on!. it should run without it if its for the TVIS vacuum, but get your system running as text book first, understand it , learn it, then you'll know what it would do if you take it off.

Paul Woods

02-11-2008, 09:34

As far as im aware rev3's didn't have tvis? not sure what that is off...

Singularity

02-11-2008, 11:03

The reason why I'm asking is that I can't lift the car up here at my location, so getting the alternator on is out of the question.. so I'll have to make the car run on the battery, so I can drive to toyota (8 km) and have them put it on.

And I've cranked the engine and had it start today.. then it ran for like 5-6 secs.. then died. same again 3 times. it cranks, it runs, it dies..

And for me to see where that canister was.. I have to get the car up or something.. I can't see a thing for all the hoses and hardlines running over that area where it's supposed to go.

Paul Woods

02-11-2008, 11:24

sounds like you have a COR wiring issue

Singularity

02-11-2008, 11:44

I got the engine running by plugging both these lines up. (the lowest 2 hoses got a sccrew into them, and fixed problem)

The thing is,, when I got the clip, something was missing from the bpv, like an EBC had been taken off or something. but noob as I am, I can't figure out how to reconnect the hoses so it runs normal.

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2008/11/178.jpg

the BPV isn't connected to anything. and here are a pic of the 2 lines paths. The yellow is smaller diameter than the red.

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2008/11/179.jpg

adamh

02-11-2008, 18:30

The top pipe i think connects to vacuum/positive pressure from the manifold, yes i'd say your yellow pipe will do fine if thats a direct feed, the red feed is interupted by a vac switch, i would connect that to the lower side of the bpv and see what happens. if your bpv isnt set properly it will stall the engine.

can you do a fault code pull on the diagnostics connector?

turn engine over again, let it die as it does, then once dead, open the lid on the diagnostics connector in the bay, bridge terminals E1 + TE1 with a small wire then turn ignition to 'accessory' posititon (2nd click without starting)

if you had wired up your engine diagnostic light (PIN 1 on N1 on the MK1 side of the plug which is GREEN/WHITE) , then connect to rev 3 ecu pin # A5 on the 22pin plug. look for ecu plug A on this diagram , find pin 5, check the colour of wire should be green / white, connect this to N1 pin1 also green white.

see diagram:

http://forums.twobrutal.com/files/ecudiagram.gif

, this should display fault codes through the orange light on your dash, once you have read off the fault code then it can sometimes point to the problem of why engine does not work.

for reading fault codes, i cannot find a quick manual online to explain, but heres a link for a rev1 repair manual, i know you have rev3, its all i have, and the fault code pull procedure is the same, if you can pull all the codes and write them down then we can have a looksie what up electrically. you'll need a battery voltage of over 11 volts for this.

http://www.badongo.com/file/11934643

how are you going to fix the car after its left toyota? do you own a jack?

Singularity

03-11-2008, 08:35

Hey Adam, I actually got the engine running (stated in text above in the former post ;D ) I blocked off both hoses and left the BPV disconnected. Now I've connected the yellow hose to the top of the BPV and left the red plugged with a screw and the bottom of the BVP is unplugged and no screw in it - car is running, but it has some rattle to it.. I don't know if it's cause it's been sitting still for a while, or something is loose. I'll probably find out when something breaks of falls off =)

The top pipe i think connects to vacuum/positive pressure from the manifold, yes i'd say your yellow pipe will do fine if thats a direct feed, the red feed is interupted by a vac switch, i would connect that to the lower side of the bpv and see what happens. if your bpv isnt set properly it will stall the engine.

funny you should say that. I had a guy from MR2OC answer the same question, and he's reply was:

I don't think it is the red line as that seems to run through some other valve (if I am seeing the image correctly).

Probably the yellow one.

For that line that I say is from the manifold, it can come from any direct port off the manifold. I think there are a few on the side of the TB or on the back of the manifold (even a few capped off and not used on mine). Any of those should work OK for supplying the correct signal to the BPV.

the part in the red in the pic was going to the ac idle up circuit. I don't have ac so that was deleted.

This pic was incl. It's from gen2, I don't know if that changes anything. It's connected with Greddy Profec B EBC ( I have that in the mail, arriving any day now)

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2008/11/180.jpg

Anyway, I'll try getting the dash light working to do the diag.test. I'll get the 5sfe alternator bracket on today, and try out the 4age alternator in it to see if it fits.

how are you going to fix the car after its left toyota? do you own a jack?

Yes I own a jack, but it's small, and I'm doing the swap on a public parking lot. I can't jack it up on gravel.

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2008/11/181.jpg

My swap hasn't been the "typical swap". You can follow my thread on MR2OC here: http://www.mr2oc.com/forumdisplay.php?f=58

adamh

03-11-2008, 16:41

now thats a nice looking motor :thumbsup:
I too am doing a swap on gravel drive, if you can find a nice thick board or 1/4" steel plate (chequer plate) or some thing similar, that will spread the load of the jack feet no problem, having the right jack also helps lol .

I found one of these black cannisters on the mK1 i have today, for sure its a vacuum cannister, in particular mine was from the TVIS which is the variable induction system (throttle plates) between the inlet manifold and head, but as paul says, the rev3 does not have a TVIS system so the vacuum tank i Am not sure whats it Is for without having seen a rev3 underneath.

as i thought the top of the chamber uses positive pressure to hold the bpv closed , then when off throttle the vacuum in the manifold snaps open the valve diaphragm and allows any positive pressure made to re-circulate into the intake. I never used a stock bpv, but on my aftermarket valve 'here' (http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/hutchisonphotos/brakevacpipe.jpg) the lower pipe leading into the bottom chamber was intended for a second vac feed i believe, but i never used it and it worked just fine, you can see the pipe sticking out if you look. rev1 but nearly same principle. i'm not sure if the lower half uses a vac chamber and switch just a passing thought, need to read up on the manual quick..

OlberJ

03-11-2008, 18:51

Aye, i concur, cannister goes under the inlet fannymould, near the dizzy.

Singularity

03-11-2008, 20:50

now thats a nice looking motor :thumbsup:

Yes, Erics Motor is quite clean. Love that he's been so helpful over the internet. It's not easy having a swap done in Denmark, when all the people that know stuff are in the UK or the US :freak3:

I found one of these black cannisters on the mK1 i have today, for sure its a vacuum cannister, in particular mine was from the TVIS which is the variable induction system (throttle plates) between the inlet manifold and head, but as paul says, the rev3 does not have a TVIS system so the vacuum tank i Am not sure whats it Is for without having seen a rev3 underneath.

I've been under the car today. I jacked up the car as high as possible with the mk1 jack that's in the frunk. I slid under to locate the missing hose and hardline that the canister connects to.. but couldn't find any.. it's like a mystery.. Paul says the gen3 doesn't have it.. and yet it fell off somewhere while I was taking the whole shebang out of the clip-chassis. I heard a noise, and there it was on the ground.. have no idea where it fell off, and it's annoying me that I have it. If paul is right it's maybe not a gen3 ? it looks like a gen3 though.. and the lifting hook don't have the same location as Erics (he's got the gen2 in the pic above) and the airfilter .. there is no AFM on that, but then again,, that could have been modified. Is there a really sertain way to tell if it's a gen3 or not ?

as i thought the top of the chamber uses positive pressure to hold the bpv closed , then when off throttle the vacuum in the manifold snaps open the valve diaphragm and allows any positive pressure made to re-circulate into the intake. I never used a stock bpv, but on my aftermarket valve 'here' (http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/hutchisonphotos/brakevacpipe.jpg) the lower pipe leading into the bottom chamber was intended for a second vac feed i believe, but i never used it and it worked just fine, you can see the pipe sticking out if you look. rev1 but nearly same principle. i'm not sure if the lower half uses a vac chamber and switch just a passing thought, need to read up on the manual quick..

I also have that line made. I cut a piece of hardline from the clip to fit from the clip. I connected it as shown in Pic1. There was a screw in the hose near the inlet before. (when the motor was still in the mk2 clip). I don't know what it does, I just made it like I saw in a pic somewhere. Should I plug it off with the screw again ?
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2008/11/182.jpg

Aye, i concur, cannister goes under the inlet fannymould, near the dizzy.

yes, I even have this pic. (not a gen 3 I was told) to see the location so that I could look for it.. but as far as I can see.. there are no loose hose or hardline.. and the bracket you see in the pic holding the cannister is non-existing on my car.. very strange..
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2008/11/183.jpg

adamh

04-11-2008, 11:43

I've been under the car today. I jacked up the car as high as possible with the mk1 jack that's in the frunk. I slid under to locate the missing hose and hardline that the canister connects to.. but couldn't find any.. it's like a mystery.. Paul says the gen3 doesn't have it..

then the gen3 dosent have it!, when i had trouble seeing places i would hold a camera under there and let it be my eyes, good trick if you dont have a good enough jack.

and yet it fell off somewhere while I was taking the whole shebang out of the clip-chassis. I heard a noise, and there it was on the ground.. have no idea where it fell off, and it's annoying me that I have it. If paul is right it's maybe not a gen3 ? it looks like a gen3 though.

u think maybe it was a rev2 and someone strapped on the 205 chargecooler? , then here is a rev2 for reference, that should make you feel confident.

rev2 (http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/hutchisonphotos/engine01.jpg)

see the differences, i'd 101% say you have a rev3

here is a rev3 built.
notice is hasnt got an AFM (air flow meter) in the top corner, and has a different throttle body and throttle cable linkage position to rev1. although almost the same as rev2 visually, the rev3 you have no AFM as it is a map sensor based fuelling system (manifold absoloute pressure) , plus the throttle cable assembly is placed differently on the throttle body

http://www.roguesystems.co.uk/mr2gt/gts/pict0017.jpg

and the lifting hook don't have the same location as Erics (he's got the gen2 in the pic above) and the airfilter .. there is no AFM on that, but then again,, that could have been modified. Is there a really sertain way to tell if it's a gen3 or not ?

the rev 1+2 have toyota cast onto the cam covers, the rev3 has bugger all cast onto it, not literally, + a number of other differences like the turbo is a ct20b on the rev3. on the rev1+2 CT26 is cast into the compressor housing, that is, unless someone has changed it to another turbo inwhich caser you will not see ct26!.

I also have that line made. I cut a piece of hardline from the clip to fit from the clip. I connected it as shown in Pic1. There was a screw in the hose near the inlet before. (when the motor was still in the mk2 clip). I don't know what it does, I just made it like I saw in a pic somewhere. Should I plug it off with the screw again ?
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/11/16.jpg

yes, I even have this pic. (not a gen 3 I was told) to see the location so that I could look for it.. but as far as I can see.. there are no loose hose or hardline.. and the bracket you see in the pic holding the cannister is non-existing on my car.. very strange..
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/11/16.jpg
thats theTVIS system right there in the bottom pic, basically 1,2 +3.

3 is the vac feed from the manifold, anything upto 4200 it supplies the tvis diaphragm valve with VAC. see, theres eight manifold ports inside the inlet manifold, four of them are blocked upto 4200rpm with a swivelling brass plate rather like a throttle body, after 4200rpm the ecu sends +12v to the TVIS-vsv which is the red valve between pipes 1 + 2. This valve is normally closed, i.e; no air flows through it , when the TVIS-vsv is fed power it opens and allows the now 'positive turbo pressure' feed through it, opens up the remaining four tvis plates and the engine gets fully throttled with air,
yeh :thumbsup:

you dont have this system on your rev3. it was a good system and worked great for normally aspirated engines and early turbo models.

now the other valve you probably do have which is pipes #4 + 5, its basically your TURBO-vsv most important valve if you want to increase boost by modyfying with an ebc or mbc etc. now, what happens with this valve is again it stays normally closed in nromal operation. Your car is set to boost to a maximum 11psi* or so , this is regulated mechanically with your turbo actuator. Now when cold the TVIS-vsv bleeds off four psi from the manifold and supplies it to the turbo actuator via pipe #5, your turbo wastgate then opens and allows the exhuast gas to bypass the turbine (exhaust wheel) inside the turbo, boost is reduced to 7psi (safe mode boost) / low boost.

you wont make 11 psi until 1, the car has warmed u properly in which case the valve shuts and allows full boost to be made, thats how i understand it.
2, the valve opens generally when there is a fault with the turbo/engine/car, the ecu sends the car into 'safe mode' you should at that point be getting an orange engine check light on your dash.

fix your problem by reading off the error code, then reset the error code by pulling the efi fuse or battery positive for 20 seconds, and then you should be making full boost again, do you understand the operation of this turbo-vsv valve?. if you are fitting an EBC or MBC, you block off the feed to this valve by shoving a screw into pipe #5 closer to the turbo, to note here is when the t-vsv is blocked off you wont get boost cut if you are running an mbc or ebc via the t-vsv, you will get boost cut vis Fuel cut!, and this is triggered via the turbo pressure sensor in the engine bay, in the rev1+2 it was to the right of the inlet manifold, in your case maybe they used the map sensor.

lastly, i'm getting worried!, you cut the brake vac booster line to the mk1 master cylinder? or you made one?

which is what go's into the bulk head above the fan there, and runs a straight feed to the manifold, it utilises vac feed the same as everything else does, when the brass plate in the throttle body snaps shut on throttle lift off, it creates vac in the manifold powering up various things including creating a vacuum boost for the large brake diaphragm in the frunk.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/11/16.jpg

Singularity

04-11-2008, 16:55

u think maybe it was a rev2 and someone strapped on the 205 chargecooler?

no, I put that st205 system on myself. I was starting to get worried that I had a gen2 with modifications, so it looked like a gen3.

here is a rev3 built.
notice is hasnt got an AFM (air flow meter) in the top corner, and has a different throttle body and throttle cable linkage position to rev1. although almost the same as rev2 visually, the rev3 you have no AFM as it is a map sensor based fuelling system (manifold absoloute pressure) , plus the throttle cable assembly is placed differently on the throttle body

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg

I'd say it looks more like mine,, also the hoses for the charcoal canister are the same, but the TB is different, and the throttle positioning sensor is on the other side on my engine.. so.. there are again modifications that make me wonder.

This was my clip when I just got it: ( I know it looks like shit with all that white stuff on the aluminium, but the guy lives at the beach, so salty air got to the shiny parts..)

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2008/11/184.jpg

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2008/11/185.jpg

the rev 1+2 have toyota cast onto the cam covers, the rev3 has bugger all cast onto it, not literally, + a number of other differences like the turbo is a ct20b on the rev3. on the rev1+2 CT26 is cast into the compressor housing, that is, unless someone has changed it to another turbo inwhich caser you will not see ct26!.

I looked at the turbo when the engine was out. it had slim to no axle-play, but it only said Toyota on the side.. I couldn't see any ct20b signs.. other that is had 6 fan blade sets like I saw in some pic somewhere. Compared to the other turbo that only had 5 if I remember correctly.

thats theTVIS system right there in the bottom pic, basically 1,2 +3.

3 is the vac feed from the manifold, anything upto 4200 it supplies the tvis diaphragm valve with VAC. see, theres eight manifold ports inside the inlet manifold, four of them are blocked upto 4200rpm with a swivelling brass plate rather like a throttle body, after 4200rpm the ecu sends +12v to the TVIS-vsv which is the red valve between pipes 1 + 2. This valve is normally closed, i.e; no air flows through it , when the TVIS-vsv is fed power it opens and allows the now 'positive turbo pressure' feed through it, opens up the remaining four tvis plates and the engine gets fully throttled with air,
yeh :thumbsup:
you dont have this system on your rev3. it was a good system and worked great for normally aspirated engines and early turbo models.

this makes me wonder if that wat the reason why .. when I yesterday drove the car fir the first time ( no alternator yet, just fully charged the battery over night in a charger in the appartment). When in neutral, it revs only to about 5k rpm, then goes like dun dun dun dun.. like the same thing as when you hit the rev-limiter @ 7600 rpm with my old 4agze engine.. I tried to drive the car for a few miles, and it couldn't rev to more than about 5k. Maybe it's cause of the alternator, but I wouldn't know.

you wont make 11 psi until 1, the car has warmed u properly in which case the valve shuts and allows full boost to be made, thats how i understand it.
2, the valve opens generally when there is a fault with the turbo/engine/car, the ecu sends the car into 'safe mode' you should at that point be getting an orange engine check light on your dash.

Would love to have fixed all this, but I haven't gotten around to backtracking the N1-pin1 wire that is missing in the N1 connector.. just a lot of small stuff that is annoying. the former owner make a mess of everything cause he disassembled the car totally to make the fancy pancy paint job.. but the paint got to his brain, and he couldn't remember where to put the stuff when he was assembling it again.. and tons of stuff is missing all over the car...

fix your problem by reading off the error code, then reset the error code by pulling the efi fuse or battery positive for 20 seconds, and then you should be making full boost again, do you understand the operation of this turbo-vsv valve?.

no, but that doesn't matter, cause when I get the car running .. like OK.. then I'll drive it to the tuner. I have the FCD, EBC, and Meth system in the mail and it should be here any day now.. so Once I've got those items, I'll hand the car over to the tuner and say.. fix it.. :rofl:

lastly, i'm getting worried!, you cut the brake vac booster line to the mk1 master cylinder? or you made one?

no, this is what it looked like when I got it. I made that hardline to go from the hose on the chassis onto the hose where the screw is in.

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2008/11/186.jpg

adamh

04-11-2008, 22:42

cool, definately a rev3, just toyota written is a ct20b compressor housing, no afm either. Thats the best shaped mk2 i've seen ref: pic2.

so you made the join between manifold and brake booster line, good job :thumbsup: the brakes may now work! .

your car will feel seriously underpowered without an alternator, ever driven a car on the motorway when the alternator has failed, the battery is dying, lights are dimming and the power is diminishing quickly, yet you still have your toe down?, the engine tone is getting lower and lower and lower until it just dies from lack of power to run, the fuel isnt the problem it's the ignition circuit, this is maybe why it does not make past 5k right now.

you'll be real lucky to get 8km without an alternator. Also it shouldnt really be driven on the road until mechanically and electrically safe / tow it.

see if you cant find that N1 pin 1 / green white wire.

also if your intercooling pipework is not connected, i'm sure mine used to stall if i remember. theres so many loose ends in this swap, you will surely be better just tying them all up, wheres that engine check wire!....

Singularity

05-11-2008, 16:23

Amigat.. Toyota wants $200 to put on the alternator.. well.. I can see how difficult it must be to remove the exhaust and then put in the bracket.. then put in the alternator and on with the exhaust again.. lol.. I'm gonna buy a long-lift capacity jack for those $200 and do it myself.. there.. same result, but then I also have a free jack .. I'll look around for it.. may take some days.. I'll get back to you Adam :beer:

adamh

05-11-2008, 17:46

:thumbsup: thats the way to go, 3 ton is best with a wide wheel base and low profile, worth their weight on these cars.

Singularity

07-11-2008, 15:47

Help.. amigat.. the alternator on the 4age has a round connection with 3 connections in it

looks like this:
__
| |

and the 3sgte has 3 connections

placed like this:
_ _ _

I know nothing about the wire color on the 4age, cause I don't have the motor anymore, and the plug that went on that alternator was on the harness that went with the motor.

so.. what I DO have is Pauls guide telling me that those 3 wires on the - - - plug from the 3sgte are Ye, Wh/Re and Bk/Ye. I can probably see the colors on the plug if I remove some of the insulating.

The problem is.. which color goes to what connection on the 4age alternator?

EDIT: I got this pic from the internet: it shows the wires have about the same colors. good.. now anyone know where in the plug those wires are ?.. since I don't have the 4age plug to put on the alternator, I can't know where to make the connections.

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2008/11/187.jpg

adamh

08-11-2008, 17:57

let me check the 4age outside, assuming the old mk1a is the same as the mk1b on the alt side, as follows:here (http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/hutchisonphotos/alternator.jpg)

Singularity

08-11-2008, 23:24

Thanks, I made 3 new wires and soldered them on to the 3 wires from pauls guide, that goes to the - - - plug that fits the 3sgte alternator. all fits perfectly.

I started the car up, and disconnected the battery.. just to see if the alternator could keep the car alive without the battery. I rev'ed it to 6000 (without alternator it could only rev to 5000) and at 6000 it stalls.. or goes.. duuh duuh duuh duuh duuh.. like it did before at 5000..

I don't have the N1 pin 1 wire as you know.. but the strange thing is, that I saw a fuse was broken in the engine bay connection box.. I changed it, and there was light in the dash.. strange.. since I still don't have the N1 Gr/Wh wire.. and the Green/White from the ECU that was supposed to get soldered to that wire just hangs out in the air still..

Anyway.. I made the black to black and the yellow to yellow,, and the white to white connection to the alternator.. and I have the Battery light on in the dash.. I also have the engine light (red) but I guess thats because I haent put the fan on yet.

I still have the 1800-2200 rpm idle bounce.. and it's quite annoying driving when the car pulls and stalls pulls and stalls when under 2000 rpm.. not to say annoying in trafic lights, when the car keeps wroom wroom wrooom wroom wrooom wrooom.. people think I'm a retard or have a heavy cramp in my foot.. amigat

Yeah.. and lastly.. seller said that the engine would stop smoking from the exhaust manifold after a few drives..cause he said it might be from spilled oil that has dripped on the exhaust manifold.. well.. today it smoked more than last time.. great.. just what I needed.. a smoking, idle bouncing car, that only can take 6000 rpm..

and no.. I wasn't impressed with the pulls from the wide open throttle runs I had.. My old 4agze was faster..

adamh

09-11-2008, 11:35

so you need to locate your engine check wire, you must have one, as the you said the engine check light (orange) came on in the dash. look again at the N1 connector in the boot and list all the wires on each pin. also you could pop out your dash clocks (which isnt that hard) and trace the wire from behind back through the loom, which runs in the passenger foot well and through behind the passenger seat. if your not going to do that, then go and buy a 12V bulb or l.e.d and wire that straight onto the engine check wire on the ecu which hangs in the air, and earth the other end on the chasis, then do the fault code pull again. also have you checked the charge fuse? 5amp in the enigne bay in the fuse box, if this is blown from earthing the feed charge out by mistake then the car will not charge and idle will be 1500-2200rpm to keep the car alive.

connect up the fan up to ensure that is working, your just guessing if you do stuff like that. I connected mine up through a 10amp fuse, and relay which was triggerred on by the cor turning on. if your fan was running or not when first started up it wouldnt make a difference to the dash lights only if it was overheating you would see the dash lights with regard to the fan.

when running it will leave a puny 4agze for dust, its obviously not performing, you've not said a thing about what boost its running so i can almst gaurantee you dont have a boost gauge!, your running on safe mode for sure. go and see if you can grab some fault codes with an l.e.d or bulb, or just plug an l.e.d striaght into the terminals E1 + TE1 in the diag connector of the 3sgte loom.

adamh

09-11-2008, 11:40

just a thougt about your charging circuit, wheres the car battery, and what does it connect too in the engine bay? also whats the voltage its charging at across the battery terminals when the engine is running

Singularity

09-11-2008, 13:18

1. I didn't say orange light, but red. the red was red with an engine with fan thing in it.

2. when you say passenger side. you mean the left side right ?. I live in Denmark, so I have passenger side in the right hand side of the car.

3. I'll try to do the LED to E1 and TE1 in the diag box. it seems like an easier route than to backtrack the wire from the dash to the ECU.

4. the 5 amp was intack. I did continuity on all the fuses I could find on the car, and only 1 was broken. it was the 10 amp in the engine bay. I have the wrong cover on the box in there, as I noticed there was fewer fuses in the box that was signatures on the box cover. I guess the cover is from 4agze and the box is from 4age. I changed the 10 amp fuse with a 15 amp, as it was a 15 amp on the cover.

5. no, I don't have a boost gauge. I have the Greddy EBC, the Active clamp FCD, and the Meth-system ready in the appartment, but I want the car running steady before I put on those items.

6. I'm also pretty sure I'm on either safe mode, or the car has vaccum issues with the loose hoses that are plugged with screws all over the enginebay..

7. The Idle was perfect 900 when I started it the first few times. It's since first drive been bouncing, and remember,, I didn't have an alternator on the car on my first run, but before I drove off the engine stalled @ 5k RPM. the idle was perfect the first 2-3 KM.. then I boosted it a little bit a few gears 2,3,4 to 5k RPM and when I stopped @ the intersection, it was bouncing 1800-2200 RPM. So, I'm guessing vaccum issue ? .. I've ordered the ATS Racing TB, so I can eliminate the home-made TB inlet as the source. It should be arriving in a week or so.. but untill then I'll pull the old TB off and inspect it for faults.

8. Lastly. the 4age alternator made boost possible fro 5000 - 6000 RPM.. so is the 4age alternator too small capacity since the car still can't do 7000 RPM+ ?? not even with the shifter in "neutral" (manual gearbox ofc) just sitting in the parking lot and rev'ing it.. it still doesn't go past 6000. - I'll do the LED trick before I return, so I have some codes to decifer.

adamh

09-11-2008, 13:36

righm if it was the red light on the far left hand side of your clocks then that is an alternator problem. this will light up along with your battery light to show problem with charging. here (http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/hutchisonphotos/clocks.jpg) the red light in the middle is handbrake, the light to the right if that is battery fault, the orange light next to that is your engine check light, its just above the hazard switch can you see it. do yourself a favour for now just stick in an l.e.d or 12V bulb into E1 + TE1 and see what your faults are.

until you get your electrical problems sorted there is no point in talking about your other running problems, quit wasting your time!.

Singularity

09-11-2008, 17:17

Update.

I fixed the TB, and saw a loose hose. I tracked it back and saw it was the other side of the hose I put a screw in.. the red line on the picture some posts back for idle up AC thing.. it had fallen off at the inlet not the hose.. but the hardline had fallen out of it's socket. I took some locktite and bingo, idle problem was gone. The car is drivable now.. thx god for that. I'll do the LED test later this following week.. it's not much daylight I get when I have college also.

I'll see about the alternator also, but as long as it's charging,, I don't consider that I can't drive the car. I'll look at the problems next week. Thanks for all help so far, you've helped alot, and I'm greatful for the time you spend om my noob questions =)

adamh

09-11-2008, 17:21

you'll know if its charging by putting a meter across the battery , see if its on or around 14v with a multimeter :thumbsup: if your getting anything like 12v its not charging, is probably why your lights are up in the dash

Singularity

09-11-2008, 21:58

I took a measurement of 15,6 volts on the plug in the boot yesterday while the engine was idle bouncing =) .. fixed the bonce today. also I've driven the car 4 times for about 5-8 km. and if the alternator wasn't charging, the engine would probably have a hard time starting. I also stated the car and then yanked the positive wire off the battery and rev'ed the engine up.. the car didn't die, so also a good indicator that the alternator is charging. Only thing I'm not sure off, is why the lights in the dash are working at all, since the wire for the dash (Gr/Wh pin1 fron N1 connector) is hanging out in the air in the ot not conected to anything. Also.. why the "charging lights are on".. and finally.. if the alternator is in fact too small, since the engine only revs to 6000 after it was put on.

I know for a fact that the st185 alernator is working cause another dude on MR2OC has that specific alternator on his car, and his car revs to max.. what is it.. 7250 on the 3sgte ?..

I think I have a harness problem rather than a mechanical problem atm. I drove the car for about 8 km tonight.. irritating that the red tail light doesn't work or trn right yellow signal either.. I can't confirm if the brake light work, haven't gotten around to testing it, bt I guess it doesn't since t's te same bulp as the tail light.

Also a funny thing.. when I turn on the engine.. the lights in the little trim (engine and battery and so on) are weak.. then after 10-20 secs they get brighter.. haha.. harness is screwd up I take it. I'll look into it later. just need the lights to work asap, so I ran a wire from the left to the right tail light instead of looking for the problem.

At least the car is operational, so I can drive it. it doesn't rev to max, but I'm guessing alternator is too small.. since noone anywhere can confirm or decline the theory.. then guesswork is the only thing I have.. my noobness doesn't do me any favors either, I just try to wrk as logically as possible to rule out some issues. It wll probably cost me a bunch of money to test and try out things, but what can a guy from Denmark do, when noone in te entire country as a MK1,5 ? I can't get help from anyone here, so I'm relying on people on the internet. Like you :D - hanks for takng the tme out ;)

adamh

09-11-2008, 23:59

when its ticking over, throw a multimeter across the battery and see what it says, i am trying to help, perhaps you might just test and see what it says. if its 14V or more your alt is giving out what it should, you must do this :slap: im not interested what it said yesterday.

first time i saw 15.6 coming from a mk1 aswell, except, when i had a blown alternator regulator and the needle was diving up and down the voltage scale like a seismograph.

Singularity

13-11-2008, 22:17

Ok, I'll test it right now.. I'll go NOW..

Ahh.. amigat.. =).. it's started raining.. I'll do it in the rain then ;D, but I can tell you, that the volt gauge goes just past the center or a bit to the RIGHT of the middle when I turn to ON, and when I start and idle the engine it goes a bit further. The gauge does go a bit down and up when I use the window wipers. The pin follows the ticks from the window wiper relay.

And another thing, funny you should mention it. I was actually thinking of the IC regulator, as I saw it on the pic from before. it said that the 4age had build in IC regulator, and that the SC version had external IC regulator.

Anyway.. just been outside. Measurement on the battery before starting the engine: 12.76 V

measurement after starting and engine idle: 12.86 V.. then I saw the voltage climbing.. I waited for 2 mins to see what if would get to.. it went to 13.64 and then down to 13.11 and steady there.

I streached the wired on the meter as far as I could and made the measurement with my foot working the throttle pedal. While the engine was going wroom wroom .. the measurement went to 14.40 then down. then with throttle again it went up to 14.40 again. still have red engine to the far left and battery lights in the dash though.. alternator seems to operate fine.. except for the slight possibility that it doesn't.. cause of the lights,, and the fact that I can only rev to 6k.. and that been said.. i've played a bit more with that.. it revs to 5.5k in 1st gear then 6.1 in second then 5.9 in 3rd.. sometimes it only reaches 5.3 or 5.2 in 1st.. I have great trouble shifting then the car does that so I just started shifing at 5k flat or less in first,, cause it's not really that reliable imho.

I'm running standard V-power 99 oct from shell and using 0w30 Edge engine oil from castrol, and hypoy LS90 gearbox oil from castrol. There should be no issues with detonation if knock was the problem.. or what ?

I havent looked at the spark plugs though.. but when the car can go from 5k-6k rpm with the alternator mounted then I don't think knock is the reason.

adamh

16-11-2008, 21:14

so the alternator is not giving enough voltage!, it should be above 14 or damned close to, on tick-over alone (without throttle), its not producing enough power for the engine.

have you got a 3sgte alternator?.

if you can find a celica alternator bracket top mount like this:

here (http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/hutchisonphotos/st165altbracket1.jpg)

then you fit it in the generic celica position which is at the top left, here (http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/hutchisonphotos/12t.jpg) it just bolts straight on, if its a rev3 you might need to grind a bit of material off the back of the bracket but generally it fits the bolt pattern. now it will get hot from downpipe and wet from engine intake fan so you'll need to shield it aswell.

make a tensioning bracket to lock it in place once tensioned, and find a belt to fit,

here, (http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/hutchisonphotos/3tensioner.jpg) here, (http://www.mr2mk1turbo.co.uk/photos/26-6.jpg) here (http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/hutchisonphotos/2tensioner.jpg)

best to fit the correct alternator on and eliminate that possibility.

did you get that l.e.d on the ecu / 12v bulb wired onto the check engine light yet and turn the ign to on without running?

a

Singularity

17-11-2008, 18:27

nonono.. not a chance.. it's far too complicated. I appreciate you telling me all this, but all I really need to do is change the 4age alternator with an st185.

The rest is just relocation to avoid oilspils into it.

I have the 3SGTE alternator, but it doesn't fit without cutting, so I'll just source out the st185, and keep original position. It bolts right up (like the 4age) to the 5SFE alternator bracket. (which is holding the 4age atm.)

No, I didn't get the LED thing done. I have been trying to figure out why the car was reving like crazy and didn't really move.. I think the clutch is worn out.. great.. I just got the whole thing assembled.. and the clutch look to be that way.. Just what I needed.

The way I figured that was I was driving with constant speed at approx. 60 mph, then WOT and revs went to 5000 instantly and stayed there for like 10-15 secs till I reached the speed calcutated to that revs, then it picked up the gauge again and climped normally.. Been trying this out in all gears, and the same result. Now I have a hard time just getting the car to move at a trafic light.. so I guess I'll need to save the clutch to get the car moving, in case I need to pay someone to fix it.. but well.. the car has only downed me about 20.000$ now.. and it keeps pulling money.. ffs.. I knew it was not cheap getting this swap, but I know for a fact, that these cars sell for 5-8000$ depending on the state of the car.. So.. I have a hugely overpriced car.. that can't even drive.. /golfclap

Don't worry though.. I'm not giving up or selling it. I'm just explaining my situation ;)

But thanks for the info about the 4age not giving enough power.

The funny thing is though, that I think the 4age should produce in range of 80-120 amps, while the st185 (which I know works) produces 70 amps.. /weird

adamh

17-11-2008, 19:51

to throw some thing else into the mix for you to think about, did you check the size of the pulley on the alternator?, if its larger on the 4age then it will turn slower with the crank speed thus producing less current on tick over, and not enough on higher rpm, naturally.

forget about that, just get the correct alternator in, eliminate that can of worms.

I knew it was not cheap getting this swap,

it is, but if your going to rush and worry it will cost you more timeand money in the long run lol .
sometimes you got to accept defeat, forget about the dead line, relax.

unless your clutch needs adjusting up, it sounds like its burnt out.

the clutch actuator is a hydraulic slave cylinder on the 3sgte, so easy, you bleed your clutch slave cylinder off above the gearbox as per instruction in the download manual i linked to, and if its followed correctly with two people one bleeding screw off / one pumping pedal, then you are safe, you then see if the cylinder actuates on the gearbox correctly, if it does so when the clutch is pushed the slave cylinder pops put at a steady quick rate...... (for the sake of it, it should pop out fully in less than a second like the action of your foot on the pedal) then assuming your clutch pressure plate is bolted up correctly inside the gearbox! one assumes that is at least o.k! then you have a burnt out clutch plate. dont worry a new clutch plate is quite cheap , even full kits are cheap these days. fitting it yes may take some time but if you have the time, then you will save a lot of money.

the l.e.d thing is what mechanics in the toyota garage use amongst other things to tell them whats wrong.

edit: I remember when my charge fuse was always blowing due to a live shorting on the geabrox from a swinging reversing light wire !, i would be driving along everythings great, then all of a sudden the car would start labouring to accelerate, and when the car was crawling in traffic, the revs would just climb and sit at around 1750-2000 would not drop, i thought it was a sticky accelerator or something at first or a faulty ISCV, it turned out that the Live hitting the gearbox casing was shorting the charge fuse and the revs were climbing up to keep it running i guess compensating for the lack of power available from the diminishing battery,.... which was not charging.

found the short by luck, I opened the engine bay hatch in the rain when shorted and the wire shorted again , this time it was wet and steam rose up in the air.

Singularity

18-11-2008, 10:44

dont worry a new clutch plate is quite cheap , even full kits are cheap these days. fitting it yes may take some time but if you have the time, then you will save a lot of money.

hehe, ye, but I think you forget I was doing the swap in an open public gravel parking lot.. so no, I don't have the facilities to do the change of clutches and pressure plates.

I can't go to toyota, cause 1.. the can't can't really move anymore.. 2.. the swap is illigal here, so I would not take the chance of showing them the car.

It's not the pedal rod. I checked it yesterday, it's got 10 mm free play when fully "out" or engaged. And it's not cause of air in the system, cause if there was no fluid at all, and only air.. I'd have trouble disengaging.. my problem is Engaging, so bleeding is definately not the issue.

If I'm lucky, I can drive the car 10 km before the clutch is completely worthless. I say this because I yesterday had trouble getting out of an intersection that was slight uphill. And as I came home, I engaged the handbrake and released the clutch pedal to kill the car, but it didn't die.. fully engaged clutch while handbrake was pulled is supposed to drown the engine, but it just ran like nothing happened. So.. Final conclution.. I'm fucked what ever I do.. it's gonna cost me £250-300 just to get the car moved to a garage, and then the salery for the worker, and the new kit.. It's probably gonna cost about £1000 all in all - if I'm lucky. and no no.. it's not like I have invested £12000 into the project already.. or.. well.. yes.. ok.. great!

I'll quit whining now.. :hidesbehi

adamh

18-11-2008, 23:07

ask a silly question but surely its not illegal to buy a tow rope and tow the car yourself or a friend?

do you not have a friend who can change the clutch in his own garage at home ...

Singularity

19-11-2008, 10:24

no it's not illigal to toe.. or wait .. it is.. why ?. cause there is no insurance on a nonregistred car, so I can't toe it. I can't drive it.. I can get it picked up and moved, by a truck that is insured ofc.. hence the money flying away with haste. I wouldn't toe a car 100 miles anyway. I did that only (only 96km though) the gearbox got damaged by that ( in the toeing car ) again money flying away. And to get back to the illigal part.. well.. I mean.. the car in it self is illigal here in Denmark. It's not an approved swap and I can't get the car registred with the 3sgte in the bay. There is a 20% rule: you can maximum improve your displacement or your HP by 20%.. and well.. lets just say that the 3sgte (gen3) doesn't do that rule any favors.

Do I know anyone with a garage.. yes, I know 3. everyone lives more than 100 miles away.. ( I moved to the 2nd largest city to study architectural engineering.)

I'll just have to wait till the seller comes home from vacation on the 27th. Then ask him what to do about this. If I'm in luck he'll do the wok if I pay the cost of the clutch.. or he'll just say bugger off..

It's just so annoying that I spend all this time on the car, and then I drive 300km and then the clutch is totally worn down. (it slipped from day 1 I test drove the car without alternator)

Anyway.. the engine has to be dropped out again to change the clutch right ? I guess there are too many hoses and hardlines to work with it inside, and when it's gearbox is loose it has to be pushed towards the side of the car, and there isn't really any room to manuvre right ?

adamh

19-11-2008, 23:19

hello again, well now, there are many ways to skin a cat.

from what i have heard so far, I would wait until your friend arrives back and ask if he can do the job for you in a garage. it's not safe to do such work in a public place as you well know i'm sure.
the other option is to rent a garage and do the work yourself safely.

Singularity

22-11-2008, 00:00

Hey Adam,

I have a pic for you..

remember when I was i doubt that I didn't have a gen3 and thought is might just be a modified gen2 ?.. well you told me that when it said only Toyota on the side of the turbo, it was a gen 3.. well.. I've seen some pics, and I was wondering if you can tell me which of these is the Gen3 turbo ?.. cause I have the one that looks like the one to the left (6 fan blades), but as far as I know that's not a straight gen3 ct20b,, is it ?.. or what ? a ct20b has only 5 fan blades ?.. or is it ct26 mix into it ?

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2008/11/188.jpg

jimi

22-11-2008, 04:05

so the alternator is not giving enough voltage!, it should be above 14 or damned close to, on tick-over alone (without throttle), its not producing enough power for the engine.

Hate to argue, but I'd say the alternator is working OK. The voltage regulator set point is 14.4v which is what he is getting when he rev's it up.
Mk1's and MK2's have the same alternator pulley size, 55mm dia.
Sounds more like a wiring problem that's causing the problems.

GaryA

22-11-2008, 14:35

My standard ct20b has 5 blades if it's any help

adamh

22-11-2008, 18:04

generically speaking, yup they both look like like ct20b from the front but the one on the left looks big!, maybe its had a new centre section put in. neither of them have ct26 written on them so neither in my opinion are ct26 / gen1/2 turbos. the one on the right maybe has a different compressor housing to the one on the left.

here is a picture of my old ct26 from a rev1. testing, note the cast letters.

here (http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/hutchisonphotos/check.jpg)

Singularity

22-11-2008, 19:37

Well it's because I'm not sure that I've not been ripped off.. and I'm trying to find out actually.. so I'm comparing pictures to peoples knowledge.. but I'm affraid not many reply to make a sound conclusion.

Anyway, I've found this link:

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread/t-107147.html

It clearly shows a turbo that looks just like the one in the picture above (on the left) and it has 6 fan-blades. I think the ct20b was "born" with only 5, and therefore it must have been rebuild with another turbo's internals.. like a budget repair, since the ct26 is cheaper than the ct20b.. So all I'm trying to do is find out, if I've been cheated into thinking that it was a ct20b in my clip..

adamh

22-11-2008, 21:38

Singularity

22-11-2008, 23:09

wait until you drive it man lol , working properly revs/electrics/all the other misdemeanours at the moment , you'll poo your pants and it will all be worth it :thumbsup: ct20b or not, although a ct20b would induce some extra fastness its nothing to worry about now.

nothing to worry about now ?.. lool =) .. ofc it's an issue.. I have to confront the seller, if it's indeed the wrong turbo.. I don't wanna pay for a ct20b and get a modded ct26 in a ct20 housing.

I know that the ct20b pulls from 2500 and keeps on pushing till redline and the ct26 is a slow piece of .... compared it starts around 3500 and goes out of breath at 5700, so I'll not be spending money on that.

Besides, you are right.. I have alot of things to concern me, but I'm hoping to get the turbo issue clearified, so I can get a replacement or a refund, if I can prove that he's been cheating me into buying a ct20b when it's in fact a rebuild ct26 in a ct20 housing.

You do agree, that a guy should get what a guy pays for .. right ? That been said, the seller comes home from vacation on the 27th, and I'd like to have all the answers by that time. I'm looking into everything possible, so I have as much ammunition as can be had to fight the fact that the clutch is finished, and that he's gotta repair it for free.. that way I can bargain with the fact that the turbo is a rebuild and then just leave it at that.

The fact of the matter is, that I'll get the car fixed, and live with the fact that I don't have a real ct20b installed.. but at least the car drives.. right ?

So in a sence.. it's a compromise that I'll have to make in order to survive the crisis of the situation I'm atm.

3 options is what I have.

1. get a refund = I don't have a car that can drive..

2. get a clutch in the hand and a replaced ct20b = I don't have a car that can drive..

3. whine about the clutch and the turbo.. he'll prob fix the clutch and it's even with the turbo = I have a drivable car.

Option 2 is the best, if I had a garage.. I don't.. so number 3 is probably best.

And besides.. I have the FCD, EBC, METH systems in the box right next to me.. and if I end up with 300 instead of 330 hp.. doesn't really matter in the long run.. I just wanna :driving:

Singularity

27-11-2008, 12:49

getting the clutch changed to stock 3sgte with upgraded pressureplate.. toyota says it will hold the torque.. I don't know about that.. it's gonna set me back £600.

The seller says the turbo is 6 fanblades cause the clip is late '96 and therefore a gen4, and not a gen3.. I don't know about that either..

The alternator problem is still here, and the seller said, it was something else.. he said, like Jimi did above, that the alternator was ok, and the problem lays somewhere else.. I don't know about that either..

Anyone have any insights to some of this ? feel free to post.

adamh

27-11-2008, 19:23

i had a look at both alternators , both the 4age, and the 3sgte, the 3sgte should give out 30A or more @ 2000rpm, the 4age gives 60amps @ 2000! funny that. So, the alternator does have enough power apparently, i stand corrected there, and bemused!. jimi and paul are probably right on suspecting a wiring problem, not that i doubted at-all, but with everything hanging out unconnected and using different unknown parts it makes it harder for you to find simple issues, if you ever found the time to plug an l.e.d or bulb into your diagnostics terminal it might even point to the wiring problem, probably more than one by the sounds, easily cleares up faults and saves working blind and guessing!.

i paid around £130 for a standard clutch with stronger plate over here, fitted it in my garage for nothing , it was worth the rent!, tenner a week.

£600 seems alot, a clutch change here typically is maybe 2-250 high street garage , plus the cost of a clutch.

Singularity

04-12-2008, 07:41

After reading alot of posts and researching I decided to get the ACT 6 Puck from the US.

http://www.koracing.net/viewproduct.php?folder=84&product=248

The price for shipment is 90$ and import tax is around 100-150$.. so total is about £370 in UK money. + install ofc. so I'll probably end up on the same amount, but have a lot better clutch.

Getting very cold and icy here in Denmark, so I'll probably not work too much on the car the next 3-4 months since I don't have a garage (it cost £150 a week to rent)

I'll just live with the flaws the car has and see what I can do about it some time next year. I'll also probably cover up the car after the clutch has been changed by the mecanic.

Happy holidays to all of you =)

John

Singularity

06-12-2008, 13:28

i had a look at both alternators , both the 4age, and the 3sgte, the 3sgte should give out 30A or more @ 2000rpm, the 4age gives 60amps @ 2000! funny that. So, the alternator does have enough power apparently, i stand corrected there, and bemused!.

There was a guy that told me that the 5sfe, celica and camry alternators also fit, and that they are 70A , while the 4age is only 60A.

You said you looked at the 2000rpm range, and I don't have problems before 6000 rpm so I was thinking the last 10A would give the last 1250 rpm ?.. or how much does the 3sgte engine need @ 7250 rpm ? if it's less than 60A then it's not the alternator.

John

jimi

06-12-2008, 13:39

There was a guy that told me that the 5sfe, celica and camry alternators also fit, and that they are 70A , while the 4age is only 60A.

You said you looked at the 2000rpm range, and I don't have problems before 6000 rpm so I was thinking the last 10A would give the last 1250 rpm ?.. or how much does the 3sgte engine need @ 7250 rpm ? if it's less than 60A then it's not the alternator.

John
Doesn't work like that, full output should be available by 2/2500 rpm. Any engine even at full RPM won't need anything like 70A more like 5/10A ( if even that )
Only very early MK1a's (84/85) had 60A alternators all the rest had 70A ones

Singularity

11-12-2008, 16:15

ok. I took the alternator of a blue mr2 a few years back, and just had it laying around. I bought the purple one without an engine to do the 3sgte swap on. the blue was an 85, and the purple is an 86.

I'll clear up some issues when I get my slow ass mail from the states here.. one of the packages are held back in customs (clutch), and the other (3" exhaust system DP and all) is idling in the shipping in the US.

Once I've gotten the small stuff like that fixed, I'll have limited the fault area, so it's easier to figure out what causes the rev issue.

Also.. it's getting colder.. I'm starting to pay people with garages to do the work for me. Its expencive, but I want to see the car operational before I cover it up for winter.

Marksman

11-12-2008, 16:26

Whatever gets it fixed is the main thing :thumbsup:

Owen.

Singularity

04-04-2009, 10:44

Hey guys, I've done some stuff to the car now..

I still have the rpm problem.. I think..

see if you recognize any of these symptoms:

1. if I idle the car in the parking lot, and rev it up, it'll cut or stall or whatever when it hits 5250 rpms.. or there about. (in Neutral)

2. if I put in i 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th gear full throttle all the way, it'll cut or stall at 5250 rpms in all gears. Below that rpm, everything is ok. (max boost was 7 PSI)

3. I put on a new DP and I weld up my own custom exhaust system.. Now I can boost 16 PSI (all stock) and I still have the annoying cuts at 5250rpm.. only difference is, that with the boost increased from 7 to 16 PSI it happens alot earlier due to the small increase of approx. 70 whp from changing the exhaust.. omfg..

So.. I guess it's an electrical thing.. or something.. I wouldn't know. I did everything that the book told me to do (pauls idiot guide), and the car runs great, if I hold it below 5250 rpm.

Lastly.. my idle rpm before changing the exhaust was 650. that has now increased to 1000. No biggie, but worth mentioning.

Anyone have any pointers ? .. maybe dizzy cap ?.. or sparkplugs ?.. COR wiring issue ?... I can't get any help from guys in my country, as noone has an mk1.5 here.. besides me.. so I'm pretty screwd..

adamh

04-04-2009, 19:47

hey dude. sorry to hear its not running right yet, have you done a fault code pull yet?.

stick and l.e.d inbetween terminals te1 + e1 in the diagnostics connector and stick turn the ignition key to the 2nd position but not started, see what code reads off on the l.e.d (that is if you still have not got your orange engine check light working yet on the dash).

Singularity

20-06-2009, 21:41

Hi Again

I've gotten some hours on the car, and i found the missing N1,Pin1 wire that was missing in the connector. I saw a wire with the same color in the engine bay. It was in a small double connector (grey) mounted on the left strut tower, or what it's called. The same place where I had to solder the 2 think + wires together in the guide.

Anyway, I used a piece of wire to short Te1 + E1 in the diag.box, and it blinked 4, then 2. and waited a while then 4, then 2 again. So I thought it had to be code 42, and it only had one code.

I have a Gen3, and the guide is from Gen2. I don't know if there is a difference in the wiring that has something to do with that, but I just unhooked the electronic speedo thing, and put in the analog assy. There was no wires to connect, so I reset the ecu by disconnecting the battery while I went inside for a drink.

When I got out again, I drove the car, and the orange light didn't come on, as it did just before, when I test drove with my newly soldered N1.Pin1 wire going to the ECU.

I have now driven the car 250 miles, and not seen the orange light in the dash come on. Just after parking the car tonigt I shorted Te1 + E1 again, andmoved the key to 2nd position. It just flashed all the time continusly, so I don't know if that means it's ok, but All I know is, that my rev-problem hasn't gone away. I also changed the spark plugs, but I saw it had iridium 7's in it, and I had also gotten those. I changed them anyway - eventhough they looked nice light brown and intact. the number on them in NGK BKR7EIX. I was told they are for 300 whp engines, and I've got that once I get the fuel clamp, ebc, and meth running, but I'd like to get the rev-problem fixed before I put those things on.

I don't know what to do next, as I don't think there are more fault codes.

Can you help me ?

PS. I also installed a new alternator, as I thought it might be that. it is from an st185.

EDIT: I got the rock-auto half shafts, that should fit the mk2t shafts to create the mk1.5 shafts.. it's not a match..

Marksman

20-06-2009, 22:34

The constant blinking of the check engine light is a good thing, means no error codes :thumbsup:

Owen.

Singularity

23-06-2009, 23:21

Hey thanks Owen, I'm glad to hear that it's clear of codes then =)

So, if I don't have any codes.. how come my rev problem hasn't gone away ?

John.

ps. see #55 for symptoms.

Paul Woods

24-06-2009, 07:01

It could be a number of things, the ECU is not god almighty and will not tell you everything that is going on.A fuel pump on its way out will give your symptoms but won't register a fault code.... as will a dodgy regulator or blocked fuel filter.

Does it cut electrically at 5250 or just runs out of fuel? they are pretty easy things to check, get a spark tester inline and watch what it does when the engine hits 5250, same with injector signal, wire an LED in parallel with any pair of injector wires and watch if the signal disappears at 5250....

We had a problem very similar to this on a v6 last year, the ECU was cutting both spark and fuel at 3000rpm.... i went through every single component and check prcoeedure you can think of, plus some new ones! In the end after 8 hours diagnostics i gave up,fitted a new engine harness (really had tried everything by this point) and it ran perfectly.... so something in the harness was causing a short, i do hope for your sake it is not that!

We will do our best to help you though, just get back to us with the test results above.

Singularity

24-06-2009, 13:43

Hey Paul, good to hear from you.

I'll change the fuel filter asap, just to be sure. I have changed the fuel pump to the walbro 255. Bought it new.

It's not cutting at the same point of rpm every time. Sometimes when I drive I can get it to 6k, sometimes to 5500, but most time I just change gear at saf 5000, so I avoid the jerks the car makes when it's hitting the boost or fuel cut.

I've experienced that sound has changed slightly after I swapped the new sparkplugs in. Not it kind of have spooling steps, especially if I'm in 5th gear, and just floor it at around 3k rpms it will sound like it's charging up kind of whiis Whiis WHIis WHIIS. kind of sound. It's hard to describe a sound with text, but it used to have a steady clear sound when spooling up, like Whoooiiisss.. and then it had gone from -22 to +16 psi over time ofc. From no throttle to full throttle. Everything inside is stock I assume. the clip I got was imported from Malaysia, but a guy tells me that the car can't run stock boost of 16 psi that way. But anyhow.. With the new sound of the spool it will only go to 15psi, and around the point of where it cut sets in, it'll drop to 14psi.

I don't know if the things are related.. I don't think so. because the rpm problem was there all along, and the spool problem just came on the last few drives I had after changing the sparkplugs.

I think I'll change the sparkplugs back to the old ones till I get the car running as it should.

I don't know if the rpm problem is electrical or if it runs out of fuel. I'll try the fuel filter change first.

I'll definately need help to figure out the stuff with the inline test thing. I never did anything like that, so I'll see if I can get a mechanic to help with that. I'll print out your last post and bring it to him, if the fuel filteer and regulator isn't the problem.

Thanks for the reply. I'll get to work now =)

EDIT: btw, do you have a gen2 axle shaft ?. I have both gen3 halfshafts that was on the 96 clip, and I have bought 2 other complete half shafts with joints and all to merge with the mk2t axles to create the mk1.5 axles, but they don't fit tigether. prople tell me it's cause the ones I bought only fit with gen2 shafts.. I have a pic here from the annoying point I found that out the hard way:
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2009/06/196.jpg

You can see the gen3 axle has larger diameter in the shaft area, and the grooves are also different.

So, the left side is an OK fit, but the right side is a bit tight, so I'd like to buy a shaft that fits in the outer and inner CV joints that i have bought, if you have one laying around that is.