View Full Version : Officially Part Of The Engine Stand Club (56k NoNo)
Well I've been quiet for a while, but I'd like to announce that I am part of the engine stand club. Ill post up a few photos of my build as it stands right now, then Ill get into my plans a little.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/40.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/41.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/42.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/43.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/44.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/45.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/46.jpg
Part of my plans are trying to put together a Twin Turbo system and get the MegaSquirt installed and tuned up. Well Ill post more once I get more work done, and please feel free to post any questions or advice you may have.
-J
Marksman
07-09-2008, 23:21
That's all rather nice work :praise2:
Owen.
Whore of Babylon
08-09-2008, 01:17
Looking good!
Heres a question to all V6turbo peoples, Why choose turbo, there more complex and expensive to build up. Wont a decent size charger do the same job, be cheaper and easier?
Not nit picking im just curious.
Cheers,
WoB
Well I think its due to the SC options that are out there, its hard to get a SC on a motor that never had a SC option. Not only that but if your not digging into the motor u wont notice much (if any) of a fuel consumption change. My reason for my turbo option is I've never seen a twin turbo v6 mr2 (well not a turbo off of each bank), and I just happen to have 3 turbos in which 2 are the size and small.
Marksman - thank you for the compliment, but its far from Woodsy work. Lets just hope the swap actually goes this smooth, I just got all the parts the Friday that just passed and lost 1 day of work due to a hurricane passing by.
Ill get more work done tomorrow as I am getting out of work early, so stay tuned for more photos.
-J
Whore of Babylon
08-09-2008, 02:15
Well if you can, you should :P
Good luck with the build, should be epic.
Thanks, I'll try to keep all you guys up to date... I just ordered a motor mount off of FourVeeSix and I should have that in a week. Hopefully soon I'll be able to drop this thing in and check out fitment for the "twins"
-J
Paul Woods
08-09-2008, 06:57
that looks amazing.... your biggest problem with twins will be trying to find somewhere for them to go and then the plumbing is a nightmare.Also if the rear bank turbo is hung under the rear bank it fouls driveshaft,bulkhead and all manner of things in the way of piping to it,plus the oil return to the sump from that location is a no go.... reason being the oil level is above the sump line on the rear of the engine,so you need to return the oil to the front of the sump.
Now this throws up two probs, the turbo isnt sitting high enough on the rear bank to allow gravity to return oil to the front of the sump,and second there is no route past the engine mount,i had to route the pipe through the chassis on whoozys build but that was with the turbo mounted high up in the boot.
Id love to see a successful twin turbo set up,but i think a big single is easier,and ultimately will produce more power.... but there is more kudos for building a twin,watching this one with interest!
TbarTurbo
08-09-2008, 10:33
Twin turbo with both turbos hanging under a raised boot floor, using a scavenge pump to return the oil to the engine ;)
I doubt the small difference in turbo to head pipe lenth will make much odds if its lagged properly... Ive seen remote mount turbos on the back end of front engined cars making good power.
There is that - but a properly sized ball bearing turbo will still kick some serious chuff.
That's why the Supra, Skyline, RX7 owners all go single in the end. It's lighter, runs cooler and has a more linear delivery with less moving parts.
It's all in the sizing!
TheGasMan
08-09-2008, 10:48
Could one not go down the BMW Turbo Diesel route of a small quickly spooling Turbo and a big one thats spooled up by the little one? Or am I talking rubbish? :doh:
Depends on teh sizing. The exhaust gas volumes from petrol and diesel are different...
dgh938peg
08-09-2008, 15:19
Could one not go down the BMW Turbo Diesel route of a small quickly spooling Turbo and a big one thats spooled up by the little one? Or am I talking rubbish? :doh:
This is true Twin-Turbo (spooling at different times. Using (2) turbos the same size & spool, (1) for each bank is Bi-Turbo - strictly speaking.
I think we've all run through this a couple of times and by far the best suggestion was to lift the boot floor slightly and sling them under there with a pump returning the oil. As suggested, you'll need to pay close attention to pipe lengths to get them spooling properly and at the same time.
I'd just like to add best of luck to you mate! :praise2:
Never anything wrong in my book with trying something different. the MR2 single turbo V6 has been done to death now and dare i say common???
I'll get my coat! :thebird:
Well I had an idea that would kinda make the piping length not that much of an issue. But may require a different Intake manifold because the throttle body placement. What im trying to do is hang the turbos over the tranny right behind the heads. Excuse my gay MSPaint drawing but this is the best way I can describe it.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/53.jpg
I think that might allow me to keep two turbos under the hood... But that darn intake manifold looks to be my biggest paint... or maybe i can cut the leg and move the TB closer to the plenum or w/e that is supposed to be...
-J
Paul Woods
08-09-2008, 18:14
what you will essentially have there is two turbos mounted over the gearbox,plumbing to and from them will be horrendous,which is why a big single over the gearbox is the natural choice.
You will need to get the sizing right too,node on the US board had two TD04's on his 5vz and i believe they spooled at idle lol
Damn, instant boost. lol, I might have to move the rear firewall back a little to make a little extra room for some piping. Maybe its just my ignorance but I dont think the piping is going to be that painfull. With both exhaust exits facing the front and rear, i think downpipes should be fairly painless. But once again it my just be my ignorance.
-J
Paul Woods
09-09-2008, 06:48
well its not just the exhaust piping,theres the boost outlets to consider,that will have to Y together at some point,route to a cooler and then to the TB,then two cold air feeds for the turbos,then water feeds and returns for each turbo plus oil feeds and returns.It all starts to get a bit messy and everything needs heat protecting.
I guess you just have to be clever with pipe routing....certainly do-able just much harder and wont produce as much power as a big single.
Well the turbos arnt water cooled so thats 4 lines that wont need to be run. I think with the turbos over the gear box that will aid in oil drain from the rear turbo. Well atleast this is how it works in my mind... The downpipes dont seem to be much of an issue but I would have to see how much of a bend I'd need to get it to clear the front and rear wall. I guess most of this will be answered by putting the motor in the car and looking for space... I think ill rework the harness after getting the turbos installed so I dont melt wires.
-J
Most of your problems will be all the crap on the engine , harness , water pipes , distributor . If you can do something about those then you are half way there.
Having the engine running on MAP will make it easier to have two sets of air supply pipes , maybe you could adapt say the 300zx TT inlet manifold with twin throttles . The 3vz one is pants for any real power , the throttle body ain't that big -
The MR2 widebody 3vz with the turbo in the boot made by that guy in the US
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/54.jpg
. Now that shows just how much you can clean up the engine bay , also the manifold it's quite clever .
Paul Woods
09-09-2008, 18:28
I guess most of this will be answered by putting the motor in the car and looking for space...
Indeed,thats pretty much the only way forward. Oil drain from the rear turbo will definately be aided from being over the gearbox,much better than trying to find a route past the drivers engine mount.
What else is it that has twin throttles 3MZ or summit?
Justinwideboy on the us forum welded up hes intake manifold on the left side and changed it to the right,then put i/c in the boot.
Have seen that, fairly nifty too. Got a pic whoozy?
Yea, the intake manifold is going to be an issue. So I was thinking about making my own and that would take care of the small throttle body issue. Plus I have a megasquirt built that I'm going to use on the engine, so the AFM issue won't be a big problem. I can get rid of the distributor by just using it as a trigger and not having a big cap on there. I just really need to find the head flanges so I can start sizing and all of that for the manifolds.
-J
dgh938peg
10-09-2008, 08:35
If someone get me the gaskets i'll draw up the bloody flanges ffs! No-ones sent me any yet!!!
Oh, well I have the file for the flanges, the problem is I cant find anyone to cut them.
dgh938peg - let me know if you want this file, i know you were putting together a list of cad files for the community. Plus I thought someone was goin to send you the gaskets locally??? Did that fall throught?
-J
Have seen that, fairly nifty too. Got a pic whoozy?
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/56.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/57.jpg
If someone get me the gaskets i'll draw up the bloody flanges ffs! No-ones sent me any yet!!!
I asked what ones you wanted, i had a big pile of them.
Anth has since binned them.
dgh938peg
11-09-2008, 22:19
I'm sure i sent you a reply asking for all of them Olber?
Aha, well am afraid, as said they're now in da bin.
Anyone else got some?
I have gaskets but I'm in the states. So if someone locally has gaskets please shoot them over. If all else fails I will send them.
-J
Well here is another update. I got the heads shimmed, camshafts installed, and a few things assembled. Well I guess I'll let the photos speak for themselves.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/75.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/76.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/77.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/78.jpg
The pulley is on so I could spin the crank so I wouldn't mess anything up shimming the heads.
Also I have some photos of the 3vze MLS headgasket.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/79.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/80.jpg
So I still have some work to do, but I'm getting there. Ill continue to update this thread as more work is done.
-J
fantastic work matey! Its looking mint!
First off, beautiful work put in there! Looks fantastic! I see you're using a 3vz-E MLS gasket set. You think you'll run into trouble there? It looks like the cylinder holes in it are not circular? All the oil galleries and so on all line up?
Bevan
No, I was just taking photos of the 3vz-e headgasket to show the differences, I had to use the sucky composite headgasket for right now. I heard sea2sky is going to offer cometic (sp?) headgaskets. So as of right now I dont see another option.
-J
http://www.ferriday.co.uk make Copper headgaskets or Bi-metalic (MLS??) head gaskets. They even have the cnc program for cutting them already. :)
He would probably be quite happy with you if you contracted him about some. He could do a double batch that way. ;) I'm trying to get my hands on some as I want to boost later on and don't want to use the OEM ones and have to scrape them off my block and heads later on and get another resurfacing. The OEM ones are already in my engine which had both surfaces decked. I'd happily rip it apart again before running it just to put some in.
Bevan
Well I received my 4v6 mount today after getting home from work. I must say, its beautiful and it got her very fast. He must have sent it b4 receiving payment because I've never had anything make it here that fast, especially outside of the US. Well I guess I'll post up some photos of the beauty.
WARNING: Please Move Keyboards and Other Electrical Devices From Under Your Chin While Viewing... Possiblity Of Electrical Shock...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/96.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/97.jpg
Ok, well its time to go put some wrench time into the motor. The mount gave me motivation so hopefully it will be a productive day.
-J
Sorry for the delay... Just been busy with all the things that life throw at you. But I got another update. Im one step closer to being able to toss this thing in the car and get started on wiring and megasquirt. Durring the dissassembly I was a little careless with the storage of the sensors in between the cyls (Detonation Sensors *knock*) and the connectors were damaged... Little did I know these sensors are over 100usd. OPPPSSS... So make sure you take care of them. Well thats the only thing stopping me from putting the lower intake manifold and upper manifold on there. Is there any replacement for these knock sensors or something compatable? Oh yea, well the thread I started about flanges for the v6 motors didn't take off, nor did it get a repy. Ill share with you the photos of the flange i had cut up. Well I guess its picture time...
3vz Flange & T3 Inlet
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/161.jpg
1.5in Sch40 Pipe on 3vz Flange
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/162.jpg
3vz Timing Components Test Fit
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/163.jpg
Test Fit of Upper Belt Cover (Needs to be Cleaned)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/164.jpg
Test Fit of Lower Belt Cover (Needs to be Cleaned Also)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/165.jpg
AND THE LONG AWAITED TONY 4V6 MOUNT!!!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/166.jpg
Just an Idea of the Color Scheme
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/167.jpg
Once I get the sensors, the upper and lower intake manifold will go on. I picked up a bottle of C25 gas for my mig welder, so no more fluxcore wire welding. Might have to use it on the manifold to get better penatration but Im thinking of switching from the Sch40 pipe to something a little thinner and lighter.
Photo of Mig Tank
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/168.jpg
Well thats all I have for right now folks. Please feel free to chime in.
-J
Well I guess its a new year and its time to throw an update at ya... I guess where I stand is the motor is built and now is awaiting a few parts like two of the motor mounts for the transmission. The front tranny mount is the same for the turbo and n/a motor. Turbo axles, got one on the way, and hopefully ill be able to dig up one more... Well enough said... Time for pictures...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/1.jpg?t=1231361861
Started some of the wiring...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/1.jpg?t=1231361955
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/1.jpg?t=1231362024
Swapped the center case on the e53 tranny...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/1.jpg?t=1231362254
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/1.jpg?t=1231362340
Dropping the motor...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/1.jpg?t=1231362412
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/1.jpg?t=1231362469
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/01/1.jpg?t=1231362520
And as alwayz the full photo log of the build is on MR-3vz - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting (http://www.photobucket.com/mr-3vz)
This is the update as it stands, its been hard finding time to work on the car because of work. But I guess I should be happy Im still working... Any and all questions are welcomed.
-J
Looks great, color scheme is nice and neat! Just a quick question for you: im also thinking about welding up my own manifolds, but dont have any welding experience, i also want to do the exhaust etc. Is a simple mig welder good for this kind of thing or do i need something extra?
Well you will want something thats going to have enough power to penetrate the thickness of the metal your using. Schedule 40 is quite thick. Also to get a nice clean weld ur going to want sheilding gas (Hence it being MIG) instead of that Innershield... But I have been told innershield wire does offer better penetration. But the best thing u can do is PREP PREP PREP... Shitty Prep shitty work, no matter the amount of skill.
-J
When I did the prep work for my exhaust stuff, I used a dremel with a tiny sanding drum on it to tidy stuff up. Worked a treat. Took the slag off the piping easy as. I was using a TIG which I hear is even more picky when it comes to welding dirty surfaces, and it came out fine!
Bevan
Well look whos back... Lol... Guess Ill drop another update...
When the motor was damn near done...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/03/214.jpg
Photo of Clutch...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/03/215.jpg
Motor & Tranny Finally Bolted Up...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/03/216.jpg
Putting the motor in...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/03/217.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/03/218.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/03/219.jpg
Test fitting rear turbo...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/03/220.jpg
Building the turbo collector...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/03/221.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/03/222.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/03/223.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/03/224.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/03/225.jpg
Intercooler...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/03/226.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/03/227.jpg
And as always... The full build album can be found @ Pictures by MR-3vz - Photobucket (http://www.photobucket.com/mr-3vz)
All questions welcomed and encouraged, and all compliments are appreciated...
-J
That's looking pretty good.
What's your gut feeling on completion times now then matey?
I dont really know, Its changing of season time and its raining and all the good ol things that happen when the seasons change. Plus I live in one of the most fickle places when it comes to weather. We had a 60* day then walked outside the next day and it snowed 5inches... Right now I'm working in a car-port so the ground is either frozen or muddy. It hasn't gotten warm enough to fully dry out, and as we speak its pouring buckets... So till the weather stabilizes more its looking to be some time around mid summer, possibly the end... Was trying to shoot for spring, but its already here... :'(
-J
Just wanted to give a little update... I know Ive been away from the forum for a while, but this is my current status.
http://s532.photobucket.com/albums/ee330/MR-3vz/?action=view¤t=MOV05373.flv
Just figured Id share the progress and I will check back in as soon as there is another update.
-J
Marksman
11-08-2009, 06:53
Well done that man :thumbsup:
Owen.
well done for the startup, how is the turbo fab working out?
Thanks. As expected, the rear head is proving to be troublesome, and with the sized turbos I have the only way I see fitting a turbo is to make a log manifold. The front turbo shouldnt be that bad, I just have to get the rear turbo up as high as possible for oil drain and downpipe. Im trying to find a decent t3 radius flange to keep it nice and compact.
-J
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