View Full Version : V6's and MOT. What's the score?
Took the Mk2 to the MOT test centre and the guy got all in a flap because he said he required the engine number?
I said the car was never available with that engine, is a jap import and therefore reverts to a non-cat test. The guy wouldn't budge on it. Didn't have any other information so I just had to leave.
What has everyone done to get there motors through?
It's a 93 car and the Camry engine was a 93 too.
millentubby
13-08-2008, 11:37
The 'friendly' tester we normally use was the same.
I just took it elsewhere, didn't mention the swap and everything was fine.
Hi mate, don't think you do you need a cat test.
I have attatched a mot diagram that they should follow it states that if a match can't be found then a non-cat test should be done.
As the car car is an import data can not be matched this applies for cars before 95.With engine swops this can go on the car or engine just incase they try to say they have a match on the engine.
On 8/12/08, Enquiries@vosa.gov.uk <Enquiries@vosa.gov.uk> wrote:
Thank you for your e-mail.
The MOT Inspection Manual states that for Vehicles fitted with a different
engine:
Test according to which is older, engine or vehicle. e.g. A 1995 car fitted
with a 1991 engine (of whatever make), test to 1991 standards for emission
purposes. Note: The onus is on the vehicle presenter to prove engine age.
I hope this will assist you but please contact me again if I can help you
further.
Regards
Christina Kriescher
VOSA Contact Centre
Chief Information Officer Directorate
Tel:- 0300 123 9000 or 0870 60 60 440
Thanks fellas, so this guy just wasn't listening to me when I stated it was an import car.
So it doesn't matter I have a 93 V6 which would be subject to a Cat test in the original car. Because it's an import shell pre 95 I could have any year of engine in there. Am I reading that right?
How do the UK shell swaps get past this problem?
Yeah, that's it Lee.
If you have a 2008 car and a 1992 engine, you do the 1992 test. Conversely, if you have a 1992 car and a 2008 engine, you do the 1992 test - it's always the done on the oldest one of the 2.
plus it goes by the chassis and engine type combination. You can import a 95M plate mr2 N/A and it will need the stricter CAT emssions test as it exists in the database. An SW20 - 3SGTE or SW20 - 3VZ doesn't exist so M plate or older does the less strict CAT test.
if the MOT tester refuses to listen to reason then gently point out to him there is a set of rules to follow for doing MOT's and if he insists on not following them you will be obliged to report him to the VOSA and cost him the MOT testers ticket or at the very least get an Inspector in to check the SOP's are being followed. Pretty sure he'll get the fecking manual and check the way to do it, realise he's been wrong all along, do the correct Emissions test and promptly fail the car on bad headlight alignment and a dodgy number plate / rust spot / insert failure of choice.
Basically, the guy you used is a monkey and not a bright one at that
Had no probs with MOT and been tested twice now. I'd not bother with that muppet and find someone else.
TheGasMan
13-08-2008, 14:56
Had no probs with MOT and been tested twice now. I'd not bother with that muppet and find someone else.
Im with Garbe on this one, Id find someone else.. took mine to a general run of the mill regular garage and i pointed the engine conversion out and he said it was no bother (3SGTE).. it failed like but that was on rusty sills nothing more (it is a Mk1 :))
Im with Garbe on this one, Id find someone else.. took mine to a general run of the mill regular garage and i pointed the engine conversion out and he said it was no bother (3SGTE).. it failed like but that was on rusty sills nothing more (it is a Mk1 :))
Yeah mine failed on rusty sills... took it somewhere else, they passed it :blabla: have to get em done eventually though :(
Never had a problem with mine and it's been done twice now. The tester only takes 20 mins doing mine....lol
But yours is a Rev 1 chassis, Lee - so you'll go by that years test mate.
My tester doesn't even bother testing my emissions. He switches the machine on and puts the emissions tester on the floor and we talk about the weather or something. I get him a pint in off course like.
TheGasMan
13-08-2008, 20:42
My tester doesn't even bother testing my emissions. He switches the machine on and puts the emissions tester on the floor and we talk about the weather or something. I get him a pint in off course like.
My Grandad used to take his car to this dodgy dodgy fella who would pass ANYTHING, he passed a vehicle and when the owner was driving away from the garage the wheel fell off, rolled and destroyed someone standing at a bus stop. He got into a bit of trouble i think.lol
sidewaysfreak
13-08-2008, 20:46
Mine recently passed the whole test still registered as a 1600, not sure if they test emissions on cars that age though.
TheGasMan
13-08-2008, 20:47
Mine recently passed the whole test still registered as a 1600, not sure if they test emissions on cars that age though.
Does that not void your insurance or anything like that mate?
sidewaysfreak
13-08-2008, 21:04
The insurance know about the engine and arches etc.
TbarTurbo
13-08-2008, 21:31
MOT testing is bollox tbh, i always have a good look over my own cars at the same time when there on the ramps, sometimes it costs me the mot, most of the time if they see me showing an interest theyll just advise. Obviously while working in the garage my mots always passed ;) apart from my de-PAS'd 205 mi16 that had a non operational pas rack ffs.
Jason, if your car was tested on the mr2s age, thats fine, as above... ;)
Cheers fellas, I seem to manage to pick complete muppets as testers. Had a similar problem last year which cost me a whole heap of work and scraped knuckles trying to put on a Catalytic converter that was never needed. Turned out he was trying to test it as a 3s-ge. This computerised system seems to really confuse testers.
I knew my car was going to fail on quite a few things, but it would have been good to have a list to work against. :)
Nevermind, looks like time is thin on the ground before I go offshore again, and I'll have to pick this up again when I get home. Would have been good to come back to a car ready to jump in and go :)
If you pull the passenger seat out, it is no longer classed as a passenger vehicle and not subject to a cat test regardless of age or engine. We only found this out due to our race cars needing MOT's to be legal for the championship regulations.
Lyndon.
IIRC u need to remove the seatbelt aswell when u do that. :thumbsup:
Portgordon
24-12-2008, 16:42
Hmmmm, whats the case for non imports on this one then? When my v6 was in my last car (a 93) it went through it's MOT fine without a CAT. This time though (different garage), they are insisting that it needs a CAT (again a 93 N/a non import). I'm trying to find something I can throw at them that says I don't need a cat - any help?
Searching on here for it is difficult as you can't search for 3 letter words!!
Paul Woods
24-12-2008, 17:10
hi mark,the import/non import status does not matter mate,the MOT tester simply isn't following the flow chart properly.
Any engine converted car then has a 95 cut off date for CAT/NON CAT tests...and even then it goes off which is the older of the two,car or engine.
It 100% does not need a cat test mate,problem is when you try to tell them to do their job properly they take the real hump.
Here's an e-mail I got from VOSA-
Thank you for your e-mail
As the older of the vehicle and engine is the May 1995 vehicle the emissions test would be carried out to that standard. At this age a CAT Test would only be required if there is an exact match in the analyser database. As your vehicle is fitted with a different engine there will not be an exact match and therefore you vehicle will only require a non CAT Test.
For advice on the V5 you would need to contact the DVLA you can e-mail them at vehicle.dvla@gtnet.gov.uk and by telephone on 0870240010.
Regards
Tina
VOSA Contact Centre
Chief Information Officer Directorate
Tel:- 0300 123 9000 or 0870 60 60 440
Portgordon
06-01-2009, 12:44
I'm still having trouble with my MOT!! :(
The garage are now point blank refusing to do the MOT as a non CAT test. They say they've phoned VOSA and they agree with their decision. I phoned VOSA this morning, and they agreed with me - that it doesn't need a CAT test. I told the garage this and they still refused, so I got the same person who agreed with me, to phone the garage and work out what was going on.....
I then got a phone call back saying that the garage were in fact correct. Because they can find a match for the Sw20, and also a match for a 3VZ-FE (in the Camry), then they have to do the test of which ever is the earlier of the two. And they are saying that this, does require a CAT.
I believe that my Engine comes from a '93 (same year as my car), but how do I prove to the garage that a 93 camry doesn't need a CAT test, when they are arguing that it does? Is there any documentation on the 95 cut off date I can throw at them?
Cheers for you're help again guys!!
as I said on the phone last night the garage are monkeys so hopefully you've spoken to the VOSA and they've given the info you need. The diagram before is pretty simple even for a tester to follow, the funny thing is it says it's on the tester to find the engine number - if he can;t then it's not an exact match so NON CAT applies
http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/repository/7.3%20Emmissions%20-%20Spark%20Ignition%20-%20Passenger%20Cars%201992-2002.pdf
Portgordon
06-01-2009, 13:54
Yup, I've spoken to twice, the first time they agreed with me, but then the second time after they'd spoken to the garage, they didn't, so now VOSA themselves are telling me it needs a CAT test unless I can prove to them that this engine didn't have a CAT. :(
Portgordon
06-01-2009, 14:21
Have just called the garage to confirm..... They have an entry in their system for the 3VZ-FE from August 1992 onwards which says it is a CAT test, so I have to prove to them that the 3VZ-FE is from before August 1992 (and it needs to be a letter from Toyota).
Seeing as I think it's from a 93, thats not likely to happen. I'm taking it somewhere else now anyway to see if they'll pass it, but I'd like to get to the bottom of this, to see who's right!? VOSA and this MOT centre are now agreeing with each other, and found this on IMOC from Woodsy:
http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=42754&start=260&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
This is a cool part of the conversion,the car gets tested on the older of the two,either engine or car,whichever is oldest....so say you have a rev4 that would usually require a Cat test with its 3s-ge fitted,and its got a 91 or 92 3vz-fe v6 fitted,it then falls into the NON cat test bracket.
So regardless of how new the mr2 is,it could be a 99 model even,if its got a 91 or 92 engine fitted it wont need to pass a CAT test.
For engines newer than 92 fitted to a post 92 car,they will need to pass the cat test and on these engine conversions we refit the cat....unless the car is a 91-92 model in which case it wont need a cat test even if we use a 96 3vz-fe.
We issue a covering letter with conversions stating the year of engine we have used.
So I guess I'll just need to prove the year of the engine, how do I do that? and where is the engine number located?
Cheers!
Limeymk1
06-01-2009, 16:34
Toyota don't keep accessable records of what engine No. went in what car AFAIK. I tried to find out what my engine came out of from a friend who worked at MrT parts dept for a very long time and he couldn't get anything out of the system.
Portgordon
06-01-2009, 16:34
Yeah, thats what I'm going to try next - taking it somewhere else, but if one test centre is this way about it, then I'm surely going to hit this again! guess I might just have to take the hit and fit a sports cat at some point, but i'd really like not too!
Maybe I'll find a tester who will do it, but it could cost me a fair bit trying...
If you look earlier in this thread I posted an e-mail from V.O.S.A and they stated that the match on the data base had to be a combination of the v6 and mr2 and as there isn't one on match can be found.
yes it has to be an exact match! Since toyota never made an SW20 chassis with 3VZ engine then it aint gonna work. Bloody muppets
edit: I just spoke to the VOSA chaps and yup NON CAT test. Mark, what you need to do is email VOSA with the Reg of your car stating the chassis and engine type. They will then email you back with the result and that's gonna solve the issue.
Portgordon
06-01-2009, 19:56
Yup, and thats what the Vosa person I spoke to said the first time round also. It was only after they'd spoken to the garage that they changed there tune so I'm not sure why.
I'll email them and get something in writing, in the meantime while I'm sorting that out, I'll just try a different garage and see what they say!
Yep definitely go to a different garage matey, this change to a computerised system with a linked database seems to have really confused some MOT testers.
Though the flow chart isn't hard to follow. If they had they would have got your business, it's them who lose out. :nuts:
Poohbear
07-01-2009, 10:57
I took my car for MOT yesterday and I have a good relationship with my MOT tester so got him to explain their process fully. On the MOT computerised system they input the registration number and this tells them which test to do...in my case since I haven't yet changed my V5 it came up as a 2.0L 3S-GE. In the first instance this is the test they will do, if the car passes this test then no problem. If it fails they then have to do an engine specific test ie: test for a 3.0 3VZ-FE and year specific so unless you have proof that the V6 engine is pre Aug 92 it will get tested to the more stringent post Aug 92 levels. They say that because the 3VZ-FE is in the database (despite never being fitted to an MR2) then they have to test it at that level. They say they don't have a choice because the computerised system leads them that way.....the flowchart everyone is quoting and using was for the pre-computer system and the new system has taken the decision making process away from them.
As it happens when I had my new mani's, downpipes, 'Y' pipe manufactured and fitted I also had a 200 CPI high flow catalyst fitted and I'm glad I did because it sailed through the normal CAT emissions test. Which means i no longer have to worry about the will they wont they pass it or test it right. Below is a copy of the email VOSA sent to me when I made enquiries months ago and the reason I had a CAT fitted...there doesn't seem to be any consistency to the way the rules are applied and for me it was too much hassle to keep having to argue the toss and of course any future buyer of my car will not have the hassle either.
Dear Sir/Madam
Thank you for your e-mail.
If you have had the engine changed in the vehicle you would need to take
along documentary proof to the testing station so they will know what
limits to apply to the vehicle. It will depend on the age of the engine to
determine which type or emissions test and limits are applied to your
vehicle.
Regards
Rebecca
Customer Service Centre
(Contact Centre) Swansea
Tel:- 0870 60 60 440
Bob
Portgordon
07-01-2009, 13:00
Thanks Bob, thats more along the lines of what the tester was saying to me! I'm going to continue to try and get a response from VOSA specific to my car, and I'll see which way it goes, or I might just take the car to VOSA themselves so they can have a look at it and tell me what they think - then print me a letter! If they say the same as they said to you, then I may have to look at a cat, unless I can find an "old school" tester :)
so how come M plate and older mk2 turbo's pass? 3S-GTE in the gt4 and sw20 chassis and after having spoken to VOSA myself they confirmed non CAT test for the 3vz and sw20 chassis both 93 dates.
Poohbear
07-01-2009, 14:05
^^^Dunno why they pass ok in some places, and that is part of the problem....so many inconsistencies on the part of both VOSA and MOT testing stations. It would help if they all sang from the same hymn book but they don't.
Anyway we should al be trying to reduce emissions really from a moral standpoint, after all since 1992 all other performance cars have to have a catalyst fitted and it doesn't seem to do them any harm.
For the record my car doesn't seem worse performance wise after having the CAT fitted so I'm not sure on NA cars there is much benefit to removing it. We shall see on the 18th Jan when I go back down the Pod again :)
Bob
I just spoke to my local MOT station but they did'nt really have a clue. They did say everything is computerised but if vosa says its ok with proof of a letter then they would call vosa and get them to override the computer system????? The guys at the mot station are nice people but are old school types, so i did'nt expect much .
I alos tried to call vosa but cannot get through!!!!
I took my car for MOT yesterday and I have a good relationship with my MOT tester so got him to explain their process fully. On the MOT computerised system they input the registration number and this tells them which test to do...in my case since I haven't yet changed my V5 it came up as a 2.0L 3S-GE. In the first instance this is the test they will do, if the car passes this test then no problem. If it fails they then have to do an engine specific test ie: test for a 3.0 3VZ-FE and year specific so unless you have proof that the V6 engine is pre Aug 92 it will get tested to the more stringent post Aug 92 levels. They say that because the 3VZ-FE is in the database (despite never being fitted to an MR2) then they have to test it at that level. They say they don't have a choice because the computerised system leads them that way.....the flowchart everyone is quoting and using was for the pre-computer system and the new system has taken the decision making process away from them.
As it happens when I had my new mani's, downpipes, 'Y' pipe manufactured and fitted I also had a 200 CPI high flow catalyst fitted and I'm glad I did because it sailed through the normal CAT emissions test. Which means i no longer have to worry about the will they wont they pass it or test it right. Below is a copy of the email VOSA sent to me when I made enquiries months ago and the reason I had a CAT fitted...there doesn't seem to be any consistency to the way the rules are applied and for me it was too much hassle to keep having to argue the toss and of course any future buyer of my car will not have the hassle either.
Dear Sir/Madam
Thank you for your e-mail.
If you have had the engine changed in the vehicle you would need to take
along documentary proof to the testing station so they will know what
limits to apply to the vehicle. It will depend on the age of the engine to
determine which type or emissions test and limits are applied to your
vehicle.
Regards
Rebecca
Customer Service Centre
(Contact Centre) Swansea
Tel:- 0870 60 60 440
Bob
That is completely wrong, about the computerized system taking over, just because a new computer system is in place the rules cannot be changed for vehicles that already exist.
I went to my local MOT place they had to phone VOSA and after doing that and following the flow chart did a non cat test.
Oh and you have up to July 95 for either car or engine, but this is only for cars that have had an engine conversion.
That is completely wrong, about the computerized system taking over, just because a new computer system is in place the rules cannot be changed for vehicles that already exist.
I went to my local MOT place they had to phone VOSA and after doing that and following the flow chart did a non cat test.
Oh and you have up to July 95 for either car or engine, but this is only for cars that have had an engine conversion.
Did you need any documentation to prove the age of your engine if so what did you use??
Did you need any documentation to prove the age of your engine if so what did you use??
The engine's a 97 but the car is may 95 so it was alright.
The engine's a 97 but the car is may 95 so it was alright.
Ahhh icic,well bollox, i'm the other way round. :)
The difference between Poohbear and Antnkel would appear to be that Ants car was an import turbo so would originaly not have had to undergo a Cat test. What I mean is, when they type in his reg it defaults to non cat test or am I wrong?
The difference between Poohbear and Antnkel would appear to be that Ants car was an import turbo so would originaly not have had to undergo a Cat test. What I mean is, when they type in his reg it defaults to non cat test or am I wrong?
Mine was a UK converted turbo, but with conversion's it doesn't matter what car it is or where it comes from. All you have to have is the car or engine regestered before Jult 95 if it's the engine you might have to prove it.
Ahhh icic,well bollox, i'm the other way round. :)
Is paul doing yours?
Just thinking if it's just about to be started maybe he might have some paperwork on it depending where it's come from.
Is paul doing yours?
Just thinking if it's just about to be started maybe he might have some paperwork on it depending where it's come from.
Yup, i spoke to paul just there, he's going to e-mail me the chassis number and i'll call the local toyota garage to check their database and hopefully get the news i want.
If not then ..........................
Portgordon
08-01-2009, 15:32
Hurrah!!!!!
My car sailed through it's MOT at the second garage I took it too, not even a whisper of a problem. They can obviously follow a block diagram flow chart with ease, heheh.
I'm still going to pursue this with VOSA though to see if I can get something in writing that I can take with me each year, as this will be a major pain in the left butt cheak every year. All it takes is for this garage to change their MOT tester and I'm back to square one again :)
Jolly good show, I'm now legal again - going for a drive tonight!!!!
Good to see, these MOT places need to get there act together.
Nice one, that's one year out of the way.:thumbsup:
ooooh, it's doing that funny extra page i can't access thingy again.
And now av posted it's gone over onto page 6.
Queer as Paul and Anth.
Good news anywho's Marc :thumbsup:
My mr2 being 1997 and lets assume the 3vz is a 94 then testers using the flow chart (provided by welsha) at worst will still carry out a cat test albeit using default limits.
So with my car beinging catless will the default limits be enough for my v6'd 2 to pass,also does the tester have to get a visual inspection of the cat itself??
I have now spoken to 3 garages about the engine conversion ,pre 95 catless test , but hitting a brick wall....
I think the problem you have kenny is your car reg is not M or older. Therefore you need to go by the oldest of the engine or car. Since the engine is still in CAT years then it will be the Basic test for that year - ie CAT.
If your car was a M plate or older then you can use the get out of no exact match between chassis and engine.
I think the problem you have kenny is your car reg is not M or older. Therefore you need to go by the oldest of the engine or car. Since the engine is still in CAT years then it will be the Basic test for that year - ie CAT.
If your car was a M plate or older then you can use the get out of no exact match between chassis and engine.
It doesn't matter, if the car or engine is pre July 95 then it's a non-cat test this is for cars with engine conversions only.
turbo cars M plate are non cat whereas M plate N/A imports are CAT test because the Chassis and Engine type can be matched.
turbo cars M plate are non cat whereas M plate N/A imports are CAT test because the Chassis and Engine type can be matched.
Yep, I was meaning v6's
turbo cars M plate are non cat whereas M plate N/A imports are CAT test because the Chassis and Engine type can be matched.
Correct, I always used to get the non-cat test on my M plate Rev 3 (when it was that).
I think I should be getting a non-cat test in the future :)
Just a quick update, reguarding this matter, spoke to an mot tester for his opinion, reguarding the v6 conversion MOT situation ,matches up to what paul and antkel was saying but here's his e-mail anyway:
Message: hi. sorry for the late reply. i have just completed my 5year mot refresher course and that was one of the subjects covered. if a car has a modification etc it must be tested to whichever is the oldest, i.e 1997 car with a 1994 engine should be tested to 1994 limits. however just to make things complicated v.o.s.a say that the owner must prove the age of the engine which is virtualy impossible so it should be tested to 1997 limits. sorry but that was how it was explained to me on friday. there is a way though. get the tester to carry out the usual emissions test, if it passes then all well & good if it fails the first test the tester must find an EXACT match for the car in the database or emissions book & carry out a test to those limits. i bet they cant find a match!!! (engine numbers & vehicle). no exact match & the tester then has to carry out a pre 1992 test (max c.o 3.5% max h/c 1200 ppm on idle only) so it should go through the emissions without any problems. this is acceptable for cars up to 2002 but cars built after that must have a full cat test. hope that explains it ok for you. if you have any problems you can email me .
That's braw Kenny, good to hear it straight from the horses mouth.
Portgordon
15-01-2009, 12:38
If only all MOT testers were in agreement with that! I really can't understand how the garage I went to managed to get VOSA to change their tune. I think I was just Reeeeeeeeeaaaallly unlucky with my choice of garage!
very true mark but now you can go back and demand your MOT fee back as they failed to do the test correctly. Also report them to VOSA, just for good measure :)
if it passes then all well & good if it fails the first test the tester must find an EXACT match for the car in the database or emissions book & carry out a test to those limits. i bet they cant find a match!!! (engine numbers & vehicle). no exact match & the tester then has to carry out a pre 1992 test (max c.o 3.5% max h/c 1200 ppm on idle only)
it's the exact match you want them to follow as then it's the NON CAT ie easier test to pass. if your car fails that then it's got real issues anyway!
Portgordon
12-01-2010, 13:19
well, I'm back in the same boat again :(
Just failed my mot on emissions - this is at the garage who passed it last year.
They are insisting that they have to test it against a CAT test because it's a 93 car. I tried explaining that there is no match for my car and engine but they won't take it.
I've just spent the last hour on the phone to both the garage and then vosa trying to get some sense. The guy I spoke to from Vosa didn't give me any confidence, he kept sounding very unsure and not really telling me anything useful. At the end of the conversation it ended up with him saying that if I can get a letter from Toyota saying that the engine in my car is not manufactured for the MR2 then that would help. I dont see it personally. Both are also stating that I have to prove the year of the engine.
I'm going to collect my car and take it home until I can get a solution - again.
Does nobody else have these problems? I have had it every single year so far!
Politely ask them to ring VOSA...
I believe someone's emailed VOSA to ask.
Portgordon
12-01-2010, 13:45
I did :( then they ranted about it. They don't have the time, other MOTs to do, it's not their job etc.. at which point I said f' it, I'll phone them then.
Fuck 'em. Take it to another place.
I emailed VOSA and got the correct info but this doesn't help when the mot station are thick as two short planks it only gives you the statifaction of knowing your right, thankfully where I go their knuckles aren't dragging along the floor and they can read.rotflmao
Portgordon
12-01-2010, 18:08
Got a call from the Garage at about 4pm from a sorry sounding (although no actual apology) receptionist I'd been speaking to earlier who proceeded to say they'd been given approval to proceed with the non CAT test and an override code from VOSA to allow them to do it (not sure about the override code bit really!).
Just picked up the car and it was the actual MOT tester I spoke to this time, he was genuinely apologetic and said that he just picked a 93 CAT test and in his words "Should have followed the flow chart and looked in the book". I sense that if I'd been able to speak to him to begin with alot of fuss could have been avoided but instead I had to deal with a rather rude receptionist!
Anyhoo, all sorted once again after a lot of fuss! They're all saying that if I go in prepped with a letter from Toyota or the garage which carried out the conversion (no idea how that works if you did the conversion yoursel) detailing the specs of the engine and the fact that it is not the standard engine, it should alleviate the problems. So I'll see if I can get something like that put together.
Only thing wrong now is my horn not working - totally forgot about that, so I'll have a look at it tonight. MOT tester said he wouldnt charge for a retest following the hassle so they're coming good in the end. :)
Paul Woods
12-01-2010, 18:20
Bottom line mate you have been dealing with assholes that do not know the ins and outs of their own jobs.... at least it's sorted now.
snowtigger
12-01-2010, 20:35
had a word with my mate george whos an mot guy and he said ass holes like these give the good mot centres bad names, and he said that they try and help any body to pass there test they arent there to fail cars and rob people of money which is what most peoples idea of an mot test station is, and i was guilty of thinking this way as well untill we had a long chat.
he also said my emissions on the 4age where great for it's year and much better than some modern cars, he is also extremly interested in this v6 swop buisness and has looked into this emissions buisness and basically said that it is a case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing, and if there is a dispute the best thing is to talk to the mot tester not a receptionist or some unqualified oik.
.........and in his words "Should have followed the flow chart and looked in the book". ......
and that there folks is the money shot. Glad it's sorted Mark but you don't half pick them. What difference does the letter from Toyota or Paul make if he isn't going to follow the chart in the book?
pooch009
08-02-2010, 20:34
jus depends wat type of garage it is to whether theyl allow to pass the MOT. garages around mine wudnt pass mine wit rusty sills, jus had to replace them.
Portgordon
15-04-2012, 15:13
Herewe go again :icon_rolleyes:
And this year we have the added thread of "The new MOT rules as Jan 2012" :
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?19190-New-MOT-rules/page3
Has anyone gone througb a V6 MOT this year?
From what I've read the addition relating to a cat is "A catalytic convertor fitted as original equipment but missing will be a reason for failure.". I dont know how this applies to engine conversions though, ie original to the the chassis, engine, or both?
I thought Id found a good "real" local garage this year but now I'm having second thoughts, the guy sounds like he cant be bothered. I was instantly put off when he said "I dont have time for this sort of thing, I normally steer clear of these kinds of issues" , great thanks for being helpful. I'd mot it myself if I could but unfortunately thats not my chosen proffession.
If the old flow chart, years of vehicles etc are still applicable then I'll state that info again, but im just not clear on what impact the 2012 changes make?
Portgordon
15-04-2012, 15:45
Just reading through this years MOT manual, and the flow charts all appear to follow the same rules:
http://mottesters.co.uk/files/special%20notices/MOT%20Inspection%20Manual.pdf
cdwood2010
15-04-2012, 16:09
I've just got mine through an mot.
I use a really good garage near me known for being less strict on stupid things.
3rd car I've put through them now, Subaru legacy and two MR2V6 converted cars - both of which we built.
The best advice I could give is what I did - ask your local motor factors where the best place is to get an older / classic car MOT'd - I used the phrase 'sympathetic to the older vehicle' which led me to my current garage.
Chris.
headcase
15-04-2012, 16:22
You have a v6 in a mr2 never had 3.5% dosnt matter about c a t. How old is car and engine.
Patrick
Portgordon
15-04-2012, 18:09
You have a v6 in a mr2 never had 3.5% dosnt matter about c a t. How old is car and engine.
Patrick
You would think that wouldn't you, but if you have a look through the previous pages you'll see that in most cases it doesn't work like that for me!
Anyhoo, I've pulled together the following document, I'll put a link in case others find it useful too (its a dropbox link). I'm going to try sending this to VOSA and see if they'll send back some sort of confirmation so that I can just waltz into the garage and tell them how it is.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qzq4i0dlm2c5l5y/MR2%20v6%20MOT%20Guidelines.pdf
april 2011:1992J camry. thats all the testers told me was valid was the CO, mine flew by, i had 0.5% CO, max allowed bieng 3.5, and 140PPm HC, max allowed bieng 1200. that was a de-cat, and a jasma type turbo back box.
I got an m.o.t in 2 weeks, i'll see what they say then.
Portgordon
15-04-2012, 20:00
Yup, those figures are all fine, as long as they test it as a "non CAT" test in which case they test it to <= 3.5% CO, however if they decide that it needs to be tested as a full cat test (which they always seem to with me), its far more restrictive, something like 0.3%.
My problem isnt the emissions themslves as such, its convincing the garages of which test should be applied to the car.
headcase
15-04-2012, 20:11
Yup, those figures are all fine, as long as they test it as a "non CAT" test in which case they test it to <= 3.5% CO, however if they decide that it needs to be tested as a full cat test (which they always seem to with me), its far more restrictive, something like 0.3%.
My problem isnt the emissions themslves as such, its convincing the garages of which test should be applied to the car.
You car cant be in the database as u have had a engine change u test to the oldest unit so if u got a 1993 car your engine 1992 the u test to engine just tell them to read the manuals. And tell them if u can match the engine code to a mr2 i give 100 pounds to them like to see them doit (read the bit about engine change ).
Patrick (mot tester ):-D. Section 7.3 page 1
Portgordon
15-04-2012, 20:34
Yup, those are the pages in the document i've put together, it all makes sense to me, but I havnt found an MOT tester up this way that understands it! If your up this way in the next week or so, pop in past and give it a test for me, heheh.
snowtigger
15-04-2012, 21:02
my car produces les emissions than the old 4age it replaces.
cdwood2010
15-04-2012, 21:24
Take it somewhere else.
You can successfully argue this down with some mot testers, but it's much easier when you have a friendly.
C.
Take the flow chart to a tester and go through it with them.
If they can't be bothered what else can they not be bothered with, take your custom elsewhere dude.
Took mine to a friend's stations. He was intreaged with the swap.. had a thorough look round it, and then did the mot.. passed with flying colours..
oft! Good work on the details Mark. I'd be tempted to report the guy for his attitude, just to cause him some trouble for being a lazy twat and failing to do HIS job properly. Likely why i use a different garage every year lol!
I will be taking a copy of your fine work though for when mine comes round to that..
...From what I've read the addition relating to a cat is "A catalytic convertor fitted as original equipment but missing will be a reason for failure.". ...
The cat thing is a red herring. The regs don't say that the car must have a cat if one was fitted as original equipment, they say if the car needs a cat test it must have a cat if one was fitted as standard.
http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4s07000101.htm
7.1 Exhaust System
Method of Inspection
3. On vehicles that qualify for a full cat emissions test, check the presence of the catalytic converter.
Reason for Rejection
3. A catalytic converter missing where one was fitted as standard.
EDIT:
Finally managed to open your link... where you highlight the same page. :)
I think the thing to do for all v6 mot's is to ask the garage before you take it in what there view on the matter is and see if you can resolve before testing.
Save your money by not having to take it somewhere else.
Not what you know who you know
wood_patrick
17-04-2012, 23:30
Well from my experience with MOT'ing Japscrap & Rowdans last year I've started taking copies of the relevant documents and charts to MOT as per Lee's suggestion. They don't like to be told how to do their job so kinda asked if my understanding of it was correct which seemed to work. :-)
I did also explain that after I had spoken to vosa on the phone they told me call them back if the tester argued it and they would look into it. Explained that (politely) to tester who didn't seem to want any unnecessary attention..... :-)
That said speaking to them first is a good plan.
snowtigger
17-04-2012, 23:44
I find a friend who's an mot tester helps more than anything, plus if youve grown up with them and have incriminating photographic evidence also helps lol.
cdwood2010
17-04-2012, 23:50
yes, i like Geoff's suggestion - ask them first!
c.
Jiff Lemon
18-04-2012, 19:29
the bit I never get over with this, is the very simple request for form VT12.
Its the appeals form.
Basically, if the tester can't be arsed to do his job correctly, as for form VT12. You'll pay another test fee, only this time, VOSA does the inspection. If found to be fine, you're refunded, certified and the tester gets his arse royally roasted by VOSA.
Now, normally, the moment you ask for the VT12 form, testers become suddenly become a whole lot more receptive, because VOSA have the power to shut down a test station with immediate effect.
Portgordon
18-04-2012, 21:13
Oooooh, thats a very interesting bit of info! i'll keep that one in mind. The garage actually seemed quite receptive to my document so I'm hopeful this time. Additionally, VOSA have acknowledged my email and forwarded it onto their technical team to respond. Unfortunately theres going to be a delay now anyway as my sills are rotten.
wood_patrick
18-04-2012, 22:14
I like that VT12 bit. Not that I would go down that route straight away but thats a good way to get them to take some notice.
With any luck on the MOT, then might just get a fail sheet for the sills which would be quick retest. :-)
And Jiff, every time I hear that song (well any one of them actually, Radio 2 is always on in work) you were signing and boucing along to at JAE 2011 it still makes me laugh a little. Lol.
Portgordon
01-05-2012, 15:06
:eusa_dance:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/1.jpg
YAY!!
racerADS
01-05-2012, 15:21
Great stuff, that does indeed deserve the gold frame :) Nice one!
Nicely done indeed :smile:
I had an absolute hell of a time on emissions with a 3sfe mk2 of all things at MOT time last week..... I'll just tell the owner to slap a v6 in there with a printout of that mail and never have to worry about it again :icon_cool:
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