Camotec's V6 Mk2 Swap

[Camotec]

Hey Guys,

Well I am onboard finally. I have my donor camry and my engine stand and longer bolts thanks to Mr PW's part number help. I will be posting pics shortly.

So just some quick questions with the 3VZ-FE and mating it to an E154(turbo/camry manual) box. Will I need anything else other than a Fidanza camry flywheel? or do I need to get a spacer? and the bolts I would use to attach the manual flywheel to the engine would be what toyota part number and how many :D. Sorry for asking these questions at this point as I am still trying to get the 3vz out of the camry.

And when removing the loom from beyond the firewall. do I have to pull the dash out to get the loom out or can I get into the lotus position (lotus elise running joke) whichever is easiest I guess.

Cheers
Ben

[Paul Woods]

if you are using the 1mz camry fidanza all you need is a set of mk1 flywheel bolts 90105-10076 and then use the camry flexplate spacer on the outside of the flywheel

[Camotec]

I am using this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33732&viewitem=&item=170228124155&_trksid=p3907.m29
flexplate spacer?

[Paul Woods]

the spacer ring that was behind your old v6 flexplate

[Conor]

^^^ is that just for 3VZs using 1MZ flywheels?

[Garbe]

the spacer ring that was behind your old v6 flexplate

Paul, oddball has a fidanza on his 3VZ, does he need to install the spacer plate.
Is the spacer to give more clearance for the flywheel bolts?

[Camotec]

Could we just use a slightly shorter bolt? if it is just a spacer to keep the bolt from bottoming out on the crank?

I am thinking maybe a High Tensile 20mm long bolt? How many mm deep is the bolt hole?

[Paul Woods]

the spacers function is twofold.... it makes the mk1 bolts the correct length without having to chop them,also the spacer acts as a big clamping washer spreading the load across the flywheel face,this helps seeing as we have doctored the PCD.

In the odd case we have had to grind the raised rib on the flywheel bolt head face off so the back of the clutch plate clears them,but thats more down to the design of clutch plate than anything else.

[Camotec]

Paul, your words of wisdom are wise.... hmmm

ok no dramas and I already have the spacer so I am good to go. Awesome thanks for that. will have pics shortly :D

[Rowdan]

the spacers function is twofold.... it makes the mk1 bolts the correct length without having to chop them,also the spacer acts as a big clamping washer spreading the load across the flywheel face,this helps seeing as we have doctored the PCD.

Camotec is using a turbo box, so the PCD is unaltered....is it not????

[oddball]

So for a fidanza flywheel with no modification, and the correct bolts, the spacer plate is more optional than essential? Will have a look at this on the weekend when i (hopefully) put it all together.

[Camotec]

Please do and let me know i have time.
Now time for some pics:

Here is the engine. hehe it will hopefully be close to coming out this coming weekend.
http://camotec.com.au/gallery/galleries/CamryPics1/DSCF0023.jpg

Here is a shot of the Camry, and my red garage and fezza everything. I like ferraris and large fires. and as you know where there is a fezza there is bound to be fire.
http://camotec.com.au/gallery/galleries/CamryPics1/DSCF0024.jpg

These are some of the new tools. I am going Kincrome everything. lifetime warranty. if i break it they replace it.
http://camotec.com.au/gallery/galleries/CamryPics1/DSCF0026.jpg

Here is a random image of my servers in my garage. and yes they are loud. They do share my internet with my neighbors and charges them on use :D and I have all the movies on there so the pregnant wife can check em out whenever. it is also my businesses development web servers.
http://camotec.com.au/gallery/galleries/CamryPics1/DSCF0027.jpg

Some pics of my mr2 at the last timed event I was at.
http://camotec.com.au/gallery/galleries/mr2track/prev53.jpg
http://camotec.com.au/gallery/galleries/mr2track/prev56.jpg

An MR2 chasing down an EVO the way it ought to be, mind you it kept leaving me on the straights. bring on the supercharged v6 :D
http://camotec.com.au/gallery/galleries/mr2track/prev68.jpg


Cheers more pics this weekend.
Ben

[Paul Woods]

no,both turbo and NA flywheels need the PCD doctoring to fit a v6.

[Garbe]

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg


How small does the 2 look :eek2:

Like a dwarf's car

[Camotec]

and considering it is the closet to the camera hehe looks funny i know.
Paul thanks for clearing that up. much appreciated.
Now going to go and get this glovebox out...

[Camotec]

I got the loom out from behind the dash, rather quick job, was expecting a nightmare. and I cut the 4th plug ecu wires about 5 inches from the plug and the ECU. charcoal canister under the battery tray.

Just a quick question relating to the circuit board behind the gauge cluster. Do I only need the one for the RPM? as the one on the one behind the speedo is will not be needed as my speedo in the mr2 is electric as well?

Whats next? I guess I just keep disconnecting the hoses.... ONWARD!

[Conor]

An MR2 chasing down an EVO the way it ought to be, mind you it kept leaving me on the straights. bring on the supercharged v6 :D
[img]http://camotec.com.au/gallery/galleries/mr2track/prev68.jpg[/img
Proper car with a proper driver.. as it should be. Who's going around letting all these sedans on race tracks, anyway? rotflmao

[Garbe]

Just a quick question relating to the circuit board behind the gauge cluster. Do I only need the one for the RPM? as the one on the one behind the speedo is will not be needed as my speedo in the mr2 is electric as well?


Just the one for the rev counter, speedo is unaffected by the swap.

[dgh938peg]

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg

Dude; your garage is WAY too clean! rotflmao

You have coving in your garage!!!!!! :hand:

[Camotec]

hehe its cause the car was sitting outside in the rain with the bonnet off so i got a car cover to stop the the rain. but then I moved it inside. The cover is not on the car now :hidesbehi

I got really cranky yesterday with a drivers side hub nut and then i used my trusty grinder and lopped the driveshaft in half. so its sorted and now I only have to attack the exhaust and the engine will be out.

Cheers
Ben

[Camotec]

Ok Engine almost out. I know you guys like pictures so I should have a bunch tomorrow.

I only have to undo the RR engine mount and then the engine should come out. I dont really want to cut the front of the car apart but I might have too as I am not sure if the crane will go high enough to clear the top radiator support.

Either way after tomorrow I will have more room in my garage and I will be able to show you more.

BTW, is it ok to make the EGR plates and other patch plates out of aluminium? I have some 3-4mm aluminum plate. will that be suitable?

[Paul Woods]

ally is perfect for the plates :thumbsup:

[Camotec]

Thanks Paul,

Ok here is proof I actually did get the motor out in the end.
I cut the incoming fuel line, I will be going to black braided lines anyways so it shouldn't matter too much.

http://camotec.com.au/gallery/galleries/CamryPics1/engine_out.jpg

Cheers guys. I have a good idea of the colour scheme for my engine and I hope I am show off my engine prep skills to you all. Probably nothing like "woodwork" hehe but hey we will give it a go.

Cheers
Ben

[OlberJ]

Now av seen people dismantle engines in the living room but that's the first time i've EVER seen someone drive the car into their front room and drop the engine there.

Brrrriliant.

[Camotec]

This is my garage. the red is probably not to everyones liking but when you like ferrari as much as me, red is right for anything :D. Unfortunately the room is not finished. it is getting black skirting boards and dark grey painted floor. but thats after i get the garage layout sorted. I will post more pics as this develops. hehe

Ok well today I removed the mounts and p/s pump, A/C & mount, drivers side shaft/cradle, starter motor and the wiring loom. I will remove the auto box tomorrow and get the motor onto the stand and then the fun can begin.

More Pics soon...

[Camotec]

Hey Guys, well I got the auto box off the motor today, took me about 15mins which was great.

I then removed the underside piece which allows access to the torque converter bolts and once the torque converter was off I undid the 8 flywheel bolts with the rattle gun. all up took me about 30mins which ain't bad really.

OK question time, I had water coming out of the exhaust manifold on the rear bank, now I am aware this care suffered a blown headgasket but is common for it to blow on the inside?. (I thought it was strange I couldn't see any leak on the outside). I suppose the positive is that it was coolant/water so hopefully it hasn't caused much damage to the block/head. (The oil is a milkshake as well. obviously mixed with the water).

Are there any performance brands of timing belts around? or anything recommended over the stock toyota item? i only ask as if there is a brand that will last a lot longer I will go for that.

I am going to bore the throttle body out as apparently the 3vz responds well to this. what else should I get a machinist to do other than porting and polishing the heads and getting the intake and exhaust manifolds matched to the heads.

When rebuilding this motor do you recommend changing the piston rings on the pistons? At this stage I am thinking about changing the pistons and rods as well mainly because I want to get something which will easily take a Procharger or Powerdyne brand centrifugal supercharger. I want to future proof it I guess. (These chargers do not need an external lubrication and all they need is a bracket and a belt and they are good to go).

Whats the idea behind the 3 angle valve job i hear about?

I know there are a few questions here but if you can give me your ideas on them it would be appreciated.

Cheers

[Bev]

When you get a blown head gasket the gas in the cylinder takes the easiest way out on compression, usually to a water gallery. Then on intake sucks some water outa the water gallery along with the fuel and air it's meant to be getting outa the intake. As for head damage, it can cause hot spotting causing the head to crack. Don't worry though, it shouldn't have done anything unless someone has flogged it with the blown head gasket or got it to drastically overheat. Just to make sure, take it into an engine shop and have them dye penetranted to check if they've got any cracks.

You've probably had water get through into the cylinder, and have a slightly open exhaust valve, and it's getting out through your exhaust that way. Just make sure to get it nice and dry in there and coat the cylinder with WD40 or something so it won't corrode.

As for rings and pistons, you'll want to get a micrometer and some telescoping guages or something and measure the pistons (if you intend on keeping them), and the bores. This way you can tell if they are within Toyota standard tollerances, or what size pistons you are going to need to buy to get the right clearances if you choose to go down that road. Sea2sky's forged pistons come with rings if I remember correctly. Also, if you wind up putting in new rings or new rings and pistons, hone the bores or get someone to do it, then measure again to double check before installing them. Otherwise they won't bed in properly and your engine will wind up burning lots of oil. New rings will also mean you'll have to break in your motor over again.

If you're cracking open the bottom end, and plan to go forced induction, as far as I can see, you may as well replace your main and conrod bearings while you are there. They aren't particually expencive. The toyota manual specifies what size bearings you need judging by what numbers are stamped on your block, crankshaft and conrods. However, these numbers are generated by what size the conrods, crank and block journals were right after it was made. So, measure everything and check what number corresponds with the current measurement! Then work out what you need. Take a good look at the old bearings as you take them out and inspect them for any unusual wear. I know my current engine I've taken to bits has a slightly worn big end bearing, If this is the case, you should do a runout check with a surface plate, a DTI and a pair of V blocks. Or, you could probably put the two end bearings in the crank case, and DTI it there with the center bearings out. Also, have a real good look at your crank to make sure that it doesn't need a regrind! This way you should end up with a bottom end within factory tollerances!

Then again, when you take it apart, the bearings could look perfect.... It's all a matter or choice. water in the oil could cause corrosion if left too long. Just stand back and go over everything with a fine toothed comb. How long since the HG blew?

If you haven't got the crank pulley off, keep the flywheel on! It's useful for jamming something through one of the holes onto the oil pump base to lock up the crank. That crank pulley has over 300nM on it if I remember correctly, and is bloody hard to get off. Just use something soft like a piece of large dowel, otherwise you'll wind up screwing the mating surface between the oil pump and the sump.

Just don't do a 1/2 assed bottom end rebuild or it'll poo out real quick. Do it properly the first time around.

Bevan

P.S. You got a copy of the 3vz-fe maintainence manual?

Nice Mr2. Love the colour :hehe:

[Camotec]

Bev if you have the 3vz-fe manual i would love a copy.

I will be getting forged pistons and h-beam con rods as well as new bearings and he like and using arp head studs and so on. I will be getting the head ported so I will get them to check them before carrying out all the work on them to make sure they will be good.

Thanks for the info

Ben

[Camotec]

Thanks for the manual Bev.

I have a minor set back which is in the form of rust growth, Because this engine has been sitting for some time with a water and oil milkshake in the heads the cams have a rust/gunk growths all over them I am able to scratch it off with a rag and my finger so I think some high pressure water and some degreaser should sort it out. once that is done I will thinly coat all parts with oil and continue on.

I have only taken the front rocker cover off so far so I am thinking the rear bank is going to be considerably worse being 1. the rear bank and 2. the headgasket blew on the rear bank.

Will keep you all posted. I paid $750 AUD for the whole camry car with engine so hopefully I can salvage the motor and all the tolerances and minimums are in the green.

[Camotec]

Ok well I have the engine on the stand and the I have the top intake manifold off and it looks as though the headgasket blew on the rear head cylinder closest to the cam belts (I could see coolant in the intake valves). I rolled the motor over and the milkshake oil and water went everywhere :D will work on my technique for future builds hehe.

It looks like I will have a bit of cleaning to do. the rear cam cover bolts were very loose with a 1mm gap between the top of the head and the rocker cover. its freakin dirty and I have taken pics. I will post after I have cleaned all parts so you can see the difference :)

In the meantime i have to clean a milkshake off the garage floor. :rant:

Cheers
Ben

[Camotec]

Here is a pic of my MR2 at Wakefield Park on the 19th July.
I had Paul Kamal (VIP Pet Foods Aussie Car Champion) behind the wheel and he managed a 1:13.8 after only 5 laps it was pulling constant 1:14's with him behind the wheel. I was doing 1:16's in the later half of the day which I think is pretty good for an NA MR2 with a bit of prep.

http://www.speedshots.com.au/gallery/96968-1/20080719_autosports_NJW_0207.jpg

Hope to see more MR2's at the next event in September.
I have a bit of work to do to get the rear end a little more settled and then hopefully we will be in the 1:12's with it.

This will be the benchmark. I expect it to be low 1 minute times with the Supercharged V6 onboard. Will wait and see.

[hmmmmm]

Thats an awesome foto mate!:driving:

[Switch_Bcn]

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg


I see Rollerblades! Your garage is complete :jump:

[Camotec]

Hey Guys,

I am making some progress with my engine rebuild. I have a few questions.

1. What does the IACV (Intake Air Control Valve) do exactly? I realize it controls the intake air but what is its purpose. and is there a need for it?
http://www.camotec.com.au/gallery/galleries/CamryPics1/iacv.jpg

2. Cold start injector?

3. What have you guys used to cut the aluminum plates for the EGR? I was going to use my dremel which has a cutting wheel but I would like to find out.

4. I am going to knife edge my throttle body but before I start on it is there any reason to go bigger in the bore. I mean normally there is but with the intake also being the same bore as the throttle body I can not see that there would be any gains to be had.

5. Which spacer is the one I should keep for the flywheel? I am pretty sure it is the left one but I thought I would confirm?
http://www.camotec.com.au/gallery/galleries/CamryPics1/spacers.jpg

Ok here you can see what a lovely big job I have of cleaning this heap :D
http://www.camotec.com.au/gallery/galleries/CamryPics1/dirtyjob.jpg
http://www.camotec.com.au/gallery/galleries/CamryPics1/dirtyjob2.jpg

[Paul Woods]

1.thats not your ISCV,thats your ACIS.... the ACIS alters the shape of the plenum internally,it seems to be there for acoustics rather than torque but who knows.... we hook it up directly to the manifold sometimes instead of through the vac tank and all it seems to do is alter the way the engine sounds when accelerating.Your ISCV however is vital,the engine wont idle without it.

2.The cold start injector is not needed,we dont actually power them up on any conversion (its not even part of the wiring guide),they all start on the button without it.....just wastes fuel.

3.I use a plasma cutter but a jigsaw would work too.

4.Can't see any gains on a stock engine.

5.The one on the left,trim the outer 3mm off it and use it on the outside of the flywheel,not behind it.

[Camotec]

Just in relation to the "IACV" or "ACIS" which I believe to be different to the ISCV (idle speed control valve).

Here is a screen dump out of my 3vz manual which shows the "IACV" and ACIS i believe. so your saying I could remove this altogether? it would seem to impede performance when using a supercharger so I am thinking of removing it.
http://www.camotec.com.au/gallery/galleries/CamryPics1/iacv.gif

the ISCV is not mentioned in the 3VZ-FE manual I have unless it is noted as another name. I searched for idle speed control in the manual as well but do not get any information on it.

VSV?

Cheers

[Paul Woods]

ah right, IACV and ACIS are the same thing,i had it confused as "idle air control valve" which is the same as the ISCV... my mistake,bloody acronyms!

[Camotec]

So what do you recommend Paul?

I am thinking I will remove the cold start injector altogether and use another blanking plate and then remove the ACIS (IACV) butterfly and plug the shaft hole. what about the other vac lines are they still needed on that back section?
Maybe I should make a whole new back plate for the intake plenum which just doesn't have these holes and I can tap some new barb connectors for any remaining/required vac lines.

I will port match the intake runners to the gasket and lower intake plenum.

[Paul Woods]

well if you are charging the engine there is no point in having the ACIS anyway.... id just make a blanking plate as you suggest

[Bev]

Hi Camotec,
What supercharger you looking at using? I've been eyeing up Eaton M90's. They're not too expencive either.

Bevan

[onyx]

your garage is crazy ...good work
by the way the rules might be different were you are but in South Australia if your planning on getting the car registered in the EGR will need to be retained. this is what the rego office told me. and it also needs to pass an polution test.