typical costs of a mk1.5 conversion?

[Jim-SR]

there are probably some other threads with this info in, but i did a quick search and didnt find anything, so apologies if i am asking the same question as a million people have asked before!

basically i am just dipping my toes into the water a little and seeing what the costs of a typical 3S-GTE conversion are. by my estimation ive got about £3800-4500 of 4A-GE parts stashed away awaiting me building a 10,000rpm screamer for my MR2, but the more and more i think about what im doing with the rest of the car, the more i feel that i am going to be wasting it somewhat when it will only have 230bhp (at best, more than that and thinks need replacing too often!)

so im considering the 3S-GTE, anything bigger and weight becomes a major concern for me, im reluctant about a 3S engine as it is lol.

id do all of the work on it myself, including building the engine, etc. if there is fabrication involved in the engine mounts then id probably get someone to do that for me, but id get a friend to weld them in cheaply. so basically i need typical costs for...

- fabrication of the mounts themselves (not including welding them to the chassis)

- typical cost to buy the latest revision 3S-GTE engine (mileage and condition not a concern, so long as it hasnt dropped valves or bent rods, etc. also dont care if the turbo is screwed, as id fit a bigger one anyway)

- cost to buy the best available gearbox for the conversion (not sure what box options there are, but if theres a 6-speed with LSD id want that, if not then a 5-speed with LSD, but nothing with stupidly long ratios unless there are options to change them)

- cost of required ancillaries, such as driveshafts (ideally stronger ones), fuel pumps, etc, all the things that the standard mk1 parts cant be used for

- plus any other relevant costs. dont include things like intercooler/chargecooler, pipework, etc. those are things il account for afterwards. i basically want to know what it will cost me to have the engine in there physically and running (to whatever extent)

if people could give ideas based on what theyve done themselves, or the going rate for such parts then that would be fantastic. i have a feeling that it could all come to less expense than what i could fetch for my 4A-GE parts, and if thats the case then its going to be seriously tempting. 400-450bhp would be much more fitting to the work i am doing elsewhere on the car, and whilst id love a normally aspirated screamer engine, i cant help thinking that it doesnt really make sense anymore

many thanks
JIM

p.s. the other option of course is a supercharged 2ZZ, but that would probably cost the same as the 4A-GE was going to set me back, although id easily make 300-350bhp. plus it has the added bonus of 6-speed gearbox as standard and all ally construction!

[OlberJ]

Hrrrm, if you're spending that much i'd go S/C'd V6 myself but that's just me. You could build an absolute belter for £4000 though if you're doin the work yourself.

The engine and box and shafts combo will be your biggest expense, it's limitless if you're going for newest revision and building it up. I'd budget 2 grand for a built 3SGTE. Am assuming you want it forged etc if you're going for more than 300bhp.

Box you'd be best with tubby with LSD, few hundred quid.

Mounts, speak to SWAT.

Fuel pump is £70 for a TT Supra one, flows more than the Walbro apparantly.

You'll spend a fair bit getting 400 BHP from a 3SGTE and it'll be mostly top end (within reason, am no havin a dig here) but if that's what u want, go for it.

Gaz Symons is the lad to speak to as he's doing pretty much the same i think.

[Gary Symons]

yep, sounds very similar to my plans. Sadly they are still just that at the minute. The plan was to get the st205 chargecooler setup in the car this year while sourcing bits for the engine to build next year. I just dont seem to have any free time at the moment. As it stands I will be lucky to get the car back on the road ready for any shows this year.

If you are going for a built 3sgte have you considered a stroker kit, thats my current thinking, not heard from him in a while but i believe stu is also doing a similar project with a stroked motor.

[Rosssco]

Jim, if you were considering a high-rev, screaming N/A powerplant, why not concentrate on creating a high-rev V6... Were all waiting to see one ina mk1..

Using a lighter all-alloy 1MZ block, but using custom manifolds, cams, high compression pistons, balaced bottom end, individual throttles, etc. Unlikely you will get 400hp, but well into the 300's.. If you're feeling good with the mapping side of things, find a VVTi equipped version. And I'm led to believe that if you used a LSD equipped N/A box (which should be good for the handling the torque), you should end up with a package not much heavier than a 4A-GE and box...

[chr15_84t3]

if you're going for an engine where the milage and condition arent a concern, why are you going for a rev 5 one in particular? if it was possible with time/space etc, personally i'd buy an early turbo car, strip out everything i needed and break the rest of it. i'm sure it'd work out cheaper for you that way.

as for driveshafts, i'm sure i've read somewhere (possibly mr2only mag) that tb developments are doing drag spec driveshafts for the 3sgte. lifetime guarantee on them as well.

[Jim-SR]

good point about going for a later engine, i actually could just go for an earlier one. my only concern would be if later blocks had additional strengthening, oil squirters, etc and things like that. not sure what changed over the years with the 3S engines

at the moment i must say im more swayed toward a 2ZZ engine. was talking to one of my friends about it today and he makes the good point that less people are sticking 2ZZ's in an MR2 (ive seen one other person on the internet, thats all), and afaik nobody has put one in an AW11 with forced induction yet

with regards the V6, i just totally struggle to beleive that it can ever be as light as a 4A-GE with the bulk of it. if it could be done without spending the earth on the engine, and enough parts were available for it then it could be a possibility. the biggest issue with a V6 though is that 6 cylinders means 50% more parts compared to a 4 cylinder on the internal build-up. so youre talking 50% more expense. and a normally aspirated V6 wouldnt produce as much power as a forced induction 1.8/2.0 16v, and im not too concerned about having peaky power, considering i was originally going for a 4A-GE with a useable powerband of 6500-10000rpm lol

if i was being really sensible though then id move away from a Toyota engine to something which is more supported in racing (im thinking Duratec here), simply because high performance parts are available in abundance. then again, the 2ZZ engine is being used in formula cars in NZ, and the 3S was the basis for most of the Toyota powered Super GT's in Japan for the best part of a decade, and possibly still is?

[chr15_84t3]

not sure about additional strengthening on the later engines....not heard or read anything that would suggest this :S i do know that the rb26 engines in skylines got comparatively weaker as they got newer down to cost cutting exercises ie using cheaper materials to build the blocks. possibly the same with toyota...but i couldnt say for sure. worth checking out tho mate cos i'm sure the difference in price between a rev 5 and rev 1 tubby engine would go a long way towards any other performance parts you wanted to fit so if there isnt any strength advantages an older engine would seem your best bet :thumbsup:

[welsh_kroozer]

i have heard that the early blocks are stronger than the later ones...

as far as i know, the only advantage in going for a later engine is the ecu and how it controls the engine, and the inlet manifold is better on later models. people do tend to go for later engines cos there easyer to modify, whereas... i fyou want to raise the boost and go up to 300bhp on a later engine, you would need a stand alone ecu and a rev3+ wiring loom with the extra censors..

[robwsurf]

think i m remembering this right but early engines rev 1 and 2 are meant tobe stronger a few later rev3 4 engines have been know to be called weaker think it was to do with larger galeries in the block and the cylinder walls being thinner, think it was resolved by rev 5 but unless your putting larger pistons in dont see a problem with any engine but 87mm pistons arent normally reccomended