Just bought dgh.mr2 old blue widearch.......

[Chris]

Hi Everyone, this is my first post here so be gentle! I have just bought the well known blue widearch car from David. Originally he wanted to sell it as a rolling shell as he felt it was unsafe to drive. Now I never drove the car prior to buying it as my heart was ruling my head at the time and had big plans to build a drag car with it. He warned me of a snapping to the left when shutting off and various other issues. After a long talk he decided to let me buy the car as a whole for a good price.....Well so I thought....

On the way home I quickly realised how bloody bad the car drove. I could swap from the middle lane of the motorway to the inside lane just by shutting off!! I originally put this down to poor geometry settings. I myself am an ATA registered master technician for Jaguar and got to work on this as soon as I could. I raised the car on a ramp to find the anti roll bar mounting on the right hand front had rotton out and was no longer attached to the car. A little disapointing considering I thought I'd bought the best shell in the world. Further inspection revealed that all the arches are rusting badly, there is rusting to the sills also. But I thought a bit of welding and this is sorted.

I checked the full geometrys of the car and as expected they were a bus ride out. I adjusted everything back into spec as required and tested the car. Still no better. Best check for worn componants I thought.

Popped it back onto a two post ramp. There was excessive play side to side and up and down on both rear wheels. Great wheels bearings....Nope the whole of the rear of the car was loose!! Non of the poly bushes had been compressed fully, the right hand rear lower arm inner bolt was cross threaded and not tight causeing a massive amount of movement. my god was my initial reaction!! But it just kept coming!! Both rear driveshaft hub nuts were loose, the engine mounts were loose, everything....Bloody death trap!!

After going round re torqueing everything I popped it back on the four poster for another geometry check. I reset eveything to stock settings and now the car drives perfect. Thank God. I was already thinking about getting shut of it within a day of ownership.

Now I need to repair the rotton mounting for the roll bar, dig all the filler back out of the arches to get them seal correctly and with a bit of luck it might make a nice car. When I got it I was chuffed to bits thinking 450bhp could be good fun.....No chance. I'm surprised it has not caused an accident already.

I'll keep everyone posted with my progress in sorting this lemon out. If I give in it will prob be broken for parts. Ollie has dibs on the wheels by the way!:blabla:

Cheers,

[Marksman]

Hi Chris and welcome to the Club.

Sorry to hear that things are not working out well for you yet. Please rest assured that Adam is a precision Engineer of high order and as such loose bolts are not of his making but down to the meddling of the car's second owner and his so called experts.

I'm pleased to hear that with the lose bolts attended to the handling came good. This puts some fears to rest as the car was driven successfully at Santa Pod by an experienced 1/4 miler with no such problems reported.

If you do decide to move on then please give some consideration to selling the car as a whole, as it remains a favourite on this club, and is the result of a lot of hard work. (Nik especially tried to buy it but missed out due to a mix up in communication with the seller.)

All the best whatever you decide,

Owen.

[dgh.mr2]

Meddler here.

Yes, of course it's all my fault!

Would you like to tell us what meddling I (actually, never touched it) or my, "so called experts" did? What evidence do you have for that remark? Or do you always feel it's OK to jump in and make accusations from a position of ignorance?

Would you like me to quote from a recent e-mail form Adam about the "unsavoury things" he hadn't told me about before purchase (or until 6th March actually, well into me trying desperately to get problems it should never have come with sorted.) Will do whether you like it or not when I have the time to root through the messages. Has he told you that he knew the handling problems had become apparent in the summer but hadn't sorted them - he has me . . now!

And, if it is my/my experts' fault why was the car handling so badly on delivery and before I'd taken it anywhere (as it happens to a kit car manufacturer and chassis specialist who had transformed three of my previous cars) and why had the geometry gone so far out from the settings shown to me from his alignment only months earlier - I bet I just drove it too hard up the M1 on day 2 of the 10 I had in the car and caused it all to go awry. Should have known better than to lift off the throttle in the middle lane with cars either side of me. Bear in mind he'd posted about one handling issue (of two, as experienced by me) last year and had admitted one to me but misdiagnosed or part called the cause/cure. So don't try to back up its perfection with quotes of a couple of 1/4 mile runs up a drag strip when I've driven it on all sorts of roads and in wet and dry conditions - how much time have you spent in it?

And, given your awe of the man and his talents, does that mean I created the corrosion Chris has found - on a shell that was supposed to be spot on, the main reason why I bought it. The amount of time I had it I'd not have been able to do much if I'd hosed salty water up its arse.

Just in case anyone thinks I've tried to rip Chris off I think he's happy that I told him all I knew and warned him of problems, but being just a meddler rather than a guru didn't know the half of it (which I will be taking up with my so called experts in no uncertain terms 1st thing Monday by the way) + feel really bad for him. I advertised it as a shell to try to stop anybody driving it off into an accident but knew Chris was able enough to sort it .. 'though didn't realise he'd have to be a welder as well until I heard what he'd found.

Chris, if he loves it so much please do sell it to him but see if he's willing to pay the £4750 I did. better still, it's so popular why not run an auction . . they'll be flocking.

[Chris]

Hi Owen,

I'm sure somethings may have been caused by other people adjusting bits for David, that still does not explain the rot....However, I'm not here to flame everyone, just telling the story so far. There will have been no communication breakdown during the sale. I'd already arranged to look at the car by 10 am the morning it went on sale on imoc and handed the cash over the same day. Besides probably did Nik a favour lol. I'm still very unsure on what to do with the car so if Nik is still interested, tell him to drop me a PM. As said the car is complete and now drives as it should.

Cheers,

Chris

[Chris]

Hi David,

You must of posted the above just before my last post. I do not feel you have ripped me off as you did not know the half of it. As said, it is not as good or as nice as it has been hyped up to be. Maybe it is just me being too picky with a nearly 20 year old car?? Or maybe it is what it is....

[dgh.mr2]

Right, I'll check for sure with Mac1 just what they did and didn't meddle with but of the loose stuff Chris found and has listed can't see them having touched:

hubs

engine mounts - why would they have loosened them, have they insured me without telling?

polybushes - they didn't fit them

the threaded nut on the rear - the one Chris notes can lead to such movement (actually one of the two things AH had belatedly told me about, if I read his description correctly?)

All they did was re-set the geometry and then when it wouldn't stay in place/work right fit new front balljoints and rear tie rods and re-set again.

But I'll ask and report back . . .

[nik]

I dont think this forum is the right place to be holding a discussion about a private sale which has been agreed between members and has seemingly gone sour..

[adamh]

for gods sake the pair of you, loose nuts and a rotted anti roll bar mount, is that all you have on the car? is that all anybody has on it? a single day to right the handling, what do you want from me???

[Marksman]

:edit: several more posts submitted whilst I was typing this so my comments may be out of kilter.

OK gentleman.

Right time for an apology from as I did rather jump in half cocked so sorry for that. As I'm sure you can imagine it's hard seeing a friends work criticised so strongly, so rather reacted first and typed later.

I can't comment of the corrosion issues as I have no knowledge to make an informed opinion but would like to address the handling side of things if I may.

I understand that you (dgh) fitted, or had fitted on your behalf, some suspension components to try to cure the handling problems? As such I find it very hard to understand how a professional mechanical establishment, with motor-sport experience no less, could possibly change these parts, and carry out their own realignment without noticing any these issues. It would seem that Chris has inspected the vehicle, noticed a long list of problems, sorted them out quickly and without any new parts and now the car drives straight? Sorry for seeming combative, but it just seems that that could have been done in the first place and have avoided a lot of ill feeling.

I hope this works out well for all concerned.

Regards,

Owen.

[adamh]

see david, your 10 weeks of diagnosis from your motorsport garage.

is it my fault, if some polybushes have come loose? are they.. 'fitted bad' or 'old' or cheap nasty parts' or, back to front? or..... jus tighten the fu*king thngs up and get on with it! really!.

[Jiff Lemon]

Just to put my 2p into the pot.

Doesn't anyone ever check a car PRIOR to buying it anymore? caveat emptor and all that?

[weegaz22]

Just to put my 2p into the pot.

Doesn't anyone ever check a car PRIOR to buying it anymore? caveat emptor and all that?

as above really, these are 20 year old cars at the end of the day, and if you look at an "average" condition mk1 they are usually rotten, wings, chassis, etc

they are going to require a bit more tlc than a car half that age, either way welcome chris, hope it hasnt put you off, get it sorted then make your mind up once you've driven it in anger

[dgh.mr2]

Adam - I don't want anything from you.

I said I'd leave you alone and did/would have - but got riled by the remarks from your mate (my wife is even more pissed off though having heard what Chris has found/how dangerous the car was as she's reminded me my kids could potentially be fatherless if I'd lost it, rather than me being even poorer). The rust though? Plus your list is selective/minimal - not just one or two things. Actually, yes I do want something . . for you to tell me honestly how fully you had described that car to me and how much you knew because I don't know whether you were in ignorant bliss or kept stuff back . .

Moderator - fair enough - I'm not posting to try to retract a sale or re-dig it however much I regret it as it's my stupid fault for buying the car + trusting Mac1, maybe (to be pursued). I jumped in to defend myself against the meddling/blame throwing line. So, I'll fuck off and leave it and the site, unless I'm told I'm being attacked again.

Marksman - yes, they should have spotted these things - as they'll find out big time on Monday - and I won't be using them again (could have saved me jumping out over £2000 down, though looks like I'd still have bills for sorting corrosion that was not expected from descriptions of the car) BUT my point was that even if they should have spotted them/told me/sorted them they aren't likely to have been responsible for half the things mentioned as they didn't put them on/build it etc.

Right, I'm done - so sick of it I'm now going to advertise (elsewhere) and get rid of my remaining MR2 'cos I just want shot of all this car crap

[nik]

chris, i sympathise that you are not happy..

looking over the original advert from dgh i am suprised to see so unexpected issues have arisen with 'the old blue'..http://forums.twobrutal.com/showthread.php?t=11622

Very probably the least rusty most corrosion proof AW11 out there?

The handling issue - pulling to the left on lift off has now been sorted

[nik]

ooh hang on reading on..i retract my previous post..

I'm used to it [the bump understeer] now and can anticipate, drive round it or handle it but wouldn't want to risk anyone else buying it as is and maybe have an accident because of any handling imbalance as I'd feel responsible. The idea is that anyone buying it as a shell could/ would be expected to check all the settings and components after the re-build/engine fitting and make sure it's right before using it.

[nik]

FFS guys this is going nowhere..

[nik]

thread closed..:master:

[adamh]

as for 'rotting arches' what utter bullshit.


firstly.. the hairline cracks in the arches you were told to get it sorted straight away.. to which you said "ah yes adam, i'll do that in the summer after mach's had a play with it"

the summer??

was it garaged even............. did you drive it in the wet? if you did drive the vehicle in the wet, with hairline cracks down to the metal panels (assuming the por might have cracked aswell) do you think.. that.. when bare metal is exposed to air it oxidises?, and further, the water may wash a residue to the surface of the paint.. like showing orange tinges? think about it, eh.. just for a minute now.

there was no rot on them arches they have been treated well. if i did not provide photgraphs of arches before and after por15 treatment then you have an argument, did i fake the photographs or something?

nik visited this car a few days if not a day before it left to be delivered, there was not a smidge of rot on the car, (expcept your well pointed arb mount eh) well fucking blow me.. you found a rotted mount.


and for reference, the car was garaged all the time, i never took it out during the weeks, had i had the time to get under it after santa pod (unfortunately but fortunately for me i was moving house) i would have fixed the minor problems, now.. by selling the car without the time to check the wheel nuts and polybushes, i have gotten all this feedback! what you think im some sort of fucking novice?.. someone that would leave a car unsafe if he had an inkling of the problem??
im sorry i sold you the car, i could have well done without all the undue bullshit you have returned me.

[nik]

sorry guys but we've got a three way argument about who sold what to who and in what condition..TB is not the place for personal greivances..
my apologies for closing the thread but it would run and run and not get anywhere had i left it open..
my best advice id dave move on, youve got shot of what you refer to as a nightmare car and chris, get her sorted and enjoy driving her like the crazy beast adam built her to be..!

oh and yes i saw her the day before she changed hands..

[adamh]

thankyou nik. utterly unbelievable. i'm sorry david, i did try to warn you of yur chosen contractors.