View Full Version : My mk1 V8 (4.2 340bhp Audi AHC with 6 speed)
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cant wait to see this in person!
Almost pure evil, that...top work Paul!! Is that T350 can Titanium, btw(or is that another TVR which has them)??
:)
epic stuff !!!!
..get some nice detailing in the bay as usual and i think a perspex engine lid window is def to be considered..
Exige type perspex or lexan i think was recommended, defo :thumbsup:
Paul Woods
22-09-2009, 17:49
Not sure if it's titanium or not, looks to be more than just stainless now you mention it.
snowtigger
22-09-2009, 18:32
Would a side exit sagaris system be a bit over kill on this Paul?
Paul Woods
22-09-2009, 18:34
I think i'm way past the point of no return when it comes to overkill on this car tiggs lol
snowtigger
22-09-2009, 18:49
Nah twin turbos intercooler and nitrous plus race slicks or is the second stage of development 600+ in a mk1 yebloody ha.
I will get me coat and take some dried frog pills and have a lie down must be that woodsport coffee kicking back in.
I'm using lexan in mine for the front access panel, it sits behind the bin doors, so when theyre up it looks standard. Open them up and its V8 time!
dgh938peg
23-09-2009, 14:17
Almost pure evil, that...top work Paul!! Is that T350 can Titanium, btw(or is that another TVR which has them)??
:)
I doubt it's Ti mate. Paul would not have been able to tack it to the other pipes if it were - far higher melting point.
Paul Woods
23-09-2009, 18:04
Good point dan, i didn't think about that.
I think you need to take some time off and get this done - I'll post up a vote thread.
Paul Woods
23-09-2009, 18:21
Well my VEMS ECU and modified V8 engine harness came back from Hilly today, i have to say i am blown away by the quality of this guys work, and i haven't even plugged it in yet.My harness is immaculate with all unneccesary wiring removed and everything labelled up perfectly.Everything and i do mean everything is in this package, and to cap it all off he has written a full user manual on fitting and setting up together with a CD ROM with the software on it etc.
Top marks andy, this has taken all of the hard work out of getting this running, sincere thanks mate.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/09/220.jpg
Now THAT looks like progress!
snowtigger
23-09-2009, 18:53
Omg fire up must only be months away now cross fingers for march next year.
Paul Woods
23-09-2009, 19:00
Well i have my flywheel and clutch to fit, fuel lines to attach and theoretically it will fire up, but i am going to take my time and do things right even if it takes longer.
Woods, if you have TVR silencer, then you need a TVR set of end cans :)
Looks bloody awesome
Paul Woods
23-09-2009, 19:22
TVR end cans are for chavs :)
snowtigger
23-09-2009, 20:26
and everton fans apparently.
TVR end cans are for chavs :)
Says Captain Square Box!
Paul Woods
25-09-2009, 17:16
I have finalized the position of my Apexi air filter, and i have mounted it right in the inner wing getting loads of cold air straight from the side vent.
To mount it here i unbolted the frame that usually holds the rubber ducting in place and welded that to the Apexi adapter.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/09/232.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/09/233.jpg
The frame then bolts back in place and holds the filter perfectly....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/09/234.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/09/235.jpg
The bracket/apexi adapter needs shotblasting and painting but i am pretty happy with this location.I have also bought some 3.5" mandrel bent aluminium piping and hose joiners to go from throttle body to filter.
That's quite subtle for you Paul :woc:, very effective and neat though.:thumbsup:
Extend it a bit and have it sticking out the side :mrgreen:
snowtigger
25-09-2009, 19:16
Nah just listen to that intake roar only a v8 can make.
dgh938peg
26-09-2009, 10:52
Nice one Paul that is :brill:
Singularity
27-09-2009, 09:42
hmm.. lookes a bit like the one I have on mine.. made years back, and it's also in the opposite side.. where the 3sgte has it's filter sitting.
Ye, I know filter needs changing - it's been done since the pic was taken. besides filter changing is quite easy when it sits like this.
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2009/09/266.jpg
Had to move the fuel lid though.
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2009/09/267.jpg
Still, the V8 is coming along real nice. Can't wait to see vids of it in action ;D
Paul Woods
16-10-2009, 18:33
Just a small update, i am in the process of extending my ECU harness so that it reaches into the cabin, it is important that i get it away from the engine bay heat, hilly has once again been a legend and sent me some shielding for the signal wires.
Other than that i have been waiting for my induction pipework to arrive, i needed some 3.5" alumiunium mandrel bent tubing and i just could not find this in the UK, so i ordered some from the US.... this is just dummy fitted, no clips or anything yet and attaches onto my "inner wing secret airbox" :)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/10/93.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/10/94.jpg
I am nearly ready to pull the engine back out for the final time, prep/paint the bay and pretty everything up for the final build.
snowtigger
16-10-2009, 18:38
Wahoo looking good there Paul this should be magnificent next year at jae, can't wait to see peoples faces when they go hmm turbo yes, hmm v6 ooh that's pretty, v8 mk1 walk to the next car walk back and go WTF v8 mk1.
Diesel Meister
16-10-2009, 19:35
What Tigger said lol
Paul Woods
16-10-2009, 19:38
I get the impression they may well walk futher down the line and go "holy sheeat, two 2gr Mk1's side by side!" :)
Diesel Meister
16-10-2009, 21:29
Paul - easy to fix. Put your Mk1.8 in the 2GR sandwich lol
make sure you put this one back in :thumbsup: .
Clarky_X
17-10-2009, 00:20
It may be a secret air intake, but I think a carbon fiber scoop would look cool. Really ram the air in there. Or is that just IMO.
Paul Woods
17-10-2009, 18:29
No a carbon side panel scoop would be magnificent.... Oi! Nik! make some carbon sidescoops! :)
Well i just spent 4 hours this afternoon cutting every single wire in my engine harness and extended them by 1m, each joint (2 per wire) meticulously soldered and heatshrunk, then wrapped the harness up again, even the signal wires have had the shielding extended.... this is a job i never want to do again as my poor fingers are raw from twisting all those wires!
What this means now though is that the ECU can now go in the cabin well away from the engine bay.
ukpaisley
17-10-2009, 22:34
Buy yourself a big pint for all the hard work u done !
Good work that man. Soldering and heatwrapping is a pain in the anal canal. 4 hours is good going for 80 odd wires though, you should take up auto-electrics as a living :P
I know your pain with that job....I strecthed a Mk2 body harness about 3m the same way..
you wanna cut corners after the first 20 or so......
Paul Woods
18-10-2009, 16:05
Yeah tell me about it, keeping the same standard on all of those wires was a pain, but it had to be done.
robwsurf
18-10-2009, 17:24
do you use an electric or gas soldering iron? cant get on with my new gas one
Paul Woods
18-10-2009, 17:26
I use a gas one for joining wires and applying heat to shrink wrap, it's essentially just a naked flame, and i use the electric one for circuit boards.
robwsurf
18-10-2009, 18:10
tried using the gas one i ve go twith the soldering tip cant seam to get enough heat might try it with different tip then
Paul Woods
18-10-2009, 18:13
Take the tip off rob, so it is just a naked blue flame.... it works ten times better that way, heat the wire up with the "cone" of the flame and then dab some solder in, takes seconds.
robwsurf
18-10-2009, 19:10
cheers paul! i ll stop hijacking thread now lol!
Clarky_X
19-10-2009, 20:37
I lashed up some rudimentary sketches of the carbon fiber air scoop design. The lines are a bit thin so you'll have to look at the full size images and zoom in. Hopefully the lines follow those of the car and it will suit it. I think it would need a mesh on the inlet edge to stop leaves getting sucked in and I'm not sure whether it would need a couple of holes near the back to pass a screwdriver through to use the original fixing points, unless there is another way to fix it. Anyway, see what you think.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/10/124.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/10/125.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/10/126.jpg
Paul Woods
20-10-2009, 06:44
Not a bad idea stephen, but you know what? I sort of like the way the induction filter can be seen from the outside through the vent, having said that if someone did a carbon side scoop if definately buy one!
Clarky_X
21-10-2009, 12:32
Me too, I've pointed Ben (CarBen F) to this thread. Paul, you may have noticed on my sketches that the outside edge of the scoop is raked back from the inner (wing side) of the scoop, I just did this for asthetics, but you may find that it affords a better view inside the scoop to see what lies beneath, depends if you choose to have mesh on the scoop leading edge or across the whole wing vent hole. I think on the leading edge would stop shit getting in yer hole so to speak, otherwise you'll be pulling leaves and spiders out of the scoop all the time.
Paul Woods
04-11-2009, 18:15
Well she is now inside in the dry for the winter and on the mobile lift, this means i can make massive progress this winter to get her ready for next summers show season.
Needless to say i have a ton of work ahead of me.
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2009/11/141.jpg
I think that ramps previous occupant was far nicer!
I will personally pay for the pain on that car if you paint it hearing aid beige.
I will personally pay for the pain on that car if you paint it hearing aid beige.
As opposed to the Jewish racing gold he's picked already? lol
snowtigger
04-11-2009, 19:08
it looks good as is just needs tidying up a bit mate allways fancied lambo kermit green as a nice mk1 color baby pastel blue and bell end purple.
so if thats on the mobile lift where has the white wonder gone hmmmmm does this imply the abs sensor and arch liners are in and done before the week is out?
Paul Woods
04-11-2009, 19:16
I am painting it supra quicksilver, which is gorgeous.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/11/23.jpg
burkedara
04-11-2009, 19:41
Quiksilver will be nice for it, wouldnt be gone on the chrome alloys though?
smccullie
04-11-2009, 21:22
Quiksilver will be nice for it, wouldnt be gone on the chrome alloys though?
could be worse
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/11/24.jpg
Just need you engine blinging up now to match this
http://media.photobucket.com/image/quicksilver%20supra/sherm6998/QuicksilversupraCCWSP500.jpg
Paul Woods
05-11-2009, 07:06
No it won't be getting any chrome wheels, polished dishes are on the cards though.
yay way to go paul be good to see the 8`s sorted
Paul Woods
06-11-2009, 06:48
Drag race for pink slips mate? :)
i wouldnt want to see you cry :duel::hidesbehi:hehe:
Paul Woods
21-11-2009, 16:54
I got my exhaust system finished completely today, i changed my rear tail pipe type to these, turned out i just did not have the space for the larger twin silencers...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/11/102.jpg
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2009/11/150.jpg
With the system tacked i took it off for seam welding...
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2009/11/151.jpg
I then got the wideband lambda bosses welded in along with my EGT probe boss.I am also wrapping my whole system to try and minimize heat in the engine bay/boot.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/11/103.jpg
Just two more pipes to wrap and it is ready for final fitting, hopefully the noise levels will be acceptable!
That's much better mate, keep the updates coming :)
Looking good mate. Think a thank you to Jay would not come amiss, your heat wrapper assistant. He held onto your pipe nearly all afternoon :)
Boy am I glad I never came over this weekend!!
Aye mate it wasn't the prettist of sights. Pauls tailpipe was blue at the end of things.
Should hopefully be over next weekend when he needs nothing doing :)
good progress paul keep it coming shes looking realy sweet now
Paul Woods
22-11-2009, 09:34
Cheers podge, it's a long slog but it's what we do though ay!
Paul Woods
25-11-2009, 18:36
Today was perhaps the best day i have had in my life, next to the birth of my gorgeous children.I spent all of yesterday and today wiring up my V8 and finding a computer shitty enough to have a serial port on it to talk to my Vems ECU.
In the end we had to drag the office PC out to the car, hook it up and begin setting up parameters via the Megatune interface.
Finally after all of the work and after many said we would fail i give you.... the MR8.
R2VDG8uwXRE
The noise this thing makes when revved is like nothing i have ever witnessed before, to be honest it scares me, it is the angriest sounding thing in all of nature!
Next the engine will get dropped out for final bay dressing.
Jiff Lemon
25-11-2009, 18:53
Gobsmacking! When can I have a drive!
Paul Woods
25-11-2009, 18:55
You can have first go Mr Jiff sir :)
Mistertwokw
25-11-2009, 18:59
oh my god!!! i think i'm in love with a noise!
ukpaisley
25-11-2009, 19:00
Bay dressing !, how can you wait, shove a milk crate in the front to sit on and take it for a drive !!
Realy its the dogs watzits well done !
burkedara
25-11-2009, 19:06
Sounds serious paul, well done!
Paul Woods
25-11-2009, 19:09
You should hear this thing in the flesh man, my satio just doesn't pick up the bass properly, even anth smiled, that's how good it sounds.
(for those that haven't met anth he is Woodsports equivalent of the stig,except more miserable :) )
Gary Symons
25-11-2009, 19:38
Awesome, looking forward to next years events even more now :thumbsup:
sounds fantastic Paul can't wait to see this in the flesh mate. Well done great job :thumbsup:
whoa that does sound mean! Cant wait to see some vids of this thing getting airbourne!
oh now that does sound evil , what a grin that first ride will be . Baby super car !
Paul Woods
25-11-2009, 19:51
Thanks chaps, it has been a long time coming and still loads to do before it's roadworthy.... i think i may have burnt my starter motor out today listening to it run so many times!
You should hear this thing in the flesh man, my satio just doesn't pick up the bass properly, even anth smiled, that's how good it sounds.
Off/T: I'd have advised to get OmniaHD instead of Satio(which incidentally was called 'Idou' as a prototype?? ), which needs a good few bugs eradicating atm... ;)
On/T: Good bloody god...I mean...VAST respect senor Woods! :praise2:
What a sight for sore eyes...and I now need to ask two things:
1) You mind if I link this vid to Facebook??
2) How soon can I come up to Durham for a visit pls??
Who needs a lottery win?? Yes, I'd actually rather drive this than a Veyron...superlative engineering!
:)
Fucking excellent work. I think i left something down there, i'll be over to collect it 2moro!
That does sound the absolute business. :)
dgh938peg
25-11-2009, 21:39
Many congrats Paul, lovin the V8ness! :thumbsup:
brianbooth
25-11-2009, 22:07
Good for you, Mr. Woods. Nobody deserves it more!
Stonking! I heard this on the phone today and the bass was just distorting it all. Amazing stuff Woods.
Who needs a lottery win?? Yes, I'd actually rather drive this than a Veyron...superlative engineering! +1
:yourock:
The reward you get from doing this yourself transcends winning millions. Paul that is awesome, truly Brutal.
When I heard the note on the MR8 exhaust as you flattened the loud pedal I was overcome, I had lump in my throat the size of Popeye's bollocks.
SlipSlide
25-11-2009, 22:45
Excellent result, sounds animal. Congrats to you, would not like to be the first person to mistake that for a 4age.
Ass on plate time.
Excellent result, sounds animal. Congrats to you, would not like to be the first person to mistake that for a 4age. :rlol:
Until word gets out, I reckon Paul should install a minicam, the look on the Porsche, Fezza and Lambo owners faces as he shows his great big hairy V8 ass would be compulsive viewing on YouTube.:rlol:
:rlol:
Until word gets out, I reckon Paul should install a minicam, the look on the Porsche, Fezza and Lambo owners faces as he shows his great big hairy V8 ass would be compulsive viewing on YouTube.:rlol:
Only one problem.
Have you seen Paul drive? :mrgreen:
knightrous
26-11-2009, 00:07
Awesome stuff as usual Paul!
Good to see your running this baby on MegaSquirt, I'm keen to hear your opinion on using the MegaSquirt with such a crazy motor :)
pilotpete
26-11-2009, 00:27
Hope to hear this running when I come up in Jan'. Fantastic job Paul - as always. Just finish it though !!
snowtigger
26-11-2009, 00:45
i think ive got some wood to polish.
goes out and buys two extra boxes of cleenex.
In the end we had to drag the office PC out to the car, hook it up and begin setting up parameters via the Megatune interface..
Awesome to see her running :D
Tis worth a trip down to maplins to grab a USB to serial cable, I picked one up for my laptop (works in windows and linux, which is handy for me) and it makes things fair bit easier. Think they're about £15.
Or there's always a bluetooth modification, if you have a laptop w built in bluetooth - the MS2 are configured to provide power to the serial connector for just such a purpose if I recall correctly ;)
Paul Woods
26-11-2009, 06:20
Thanks chaps, yesterday was just amazing hearing it run for the first time, there are a few bugs to iron out yet but that's half the fun.
Anth and i were talking about the traffic light scenario at lunchtime, he said all you need to do is "rev that fucker" next to someone at the lights and they won't bother, or go into stealth mode not giving anything away until the lights change.... as olie says though my racing skills are on par with stevie wonders so probably not the best idea!
Cheers for that alun, i could have done with your wisdom yesterday when i tried to buy a serial extension cable at PC world, those muppets are clueless! i said so there is no other solution apart from serial to serial? nope! I think i will grab a serial to USB as you say :thumbsup:
Paul Woods
26-11-2009, 07:48
Just bought a serial to USB cable off ebay for £3, cheers alun!
Knightrous it is technically Vems, which is an advanced form of MS, but uses the same megatune interface, we shall see how it works out but i am pretty happy with it so far.
Paul Woods
26-11-2009, 07:54
Sorry aware just catching up with replies now, yes by all means link away on myfacetubebospacebook
GregLeBon
26-11-2009, 08:08
Quality, Paul, as always...!lol :thumbsup:
So........if I bring my Mk3 up to Woodsport, I could have a V8 Audi engine up and running by..ooh....the end of Jan 2010, then.....? ;)
Seriously though: any plans to do a Mk3 version...?
I may be interested: I would sell mine on and get one with a blown engine.......?
(Pointless getting you to undo all your previous good work.......!)
The MR8 is already a legend: take it that it'll be the star of a few shows in 2010...?
Truly -8-Brutal, congratulations !!
(starts saving up for an extra trip to hear and see this in the flesh :drool:)
Sorry aware just catching up with replies now, yes by all means link away on myfacetubebospacebook
Facehead only for me, I'm not that much of an oik! :careful:
And bless you, done...my ~50 friends(and theirs) need to see this... :nerd:
Isn't PaulM(in MK) doing Mk3V8??
EDIT: Was gonna say something else, not relevant atm tho'...
I'll be giving WS a call asap(hopefully before chrimbo)...I'd really like to see this in the flesh!
:)
congratulations paul its great to see and hear her run i know how much work one of these are hats off to you fella:thumbsup:
I think I am :pray:
Facehead only for me, I'm not that much of an oik! :careful:
And bless you, done...my ~50 friends(and theirs) need to see this... :nerd:
Isn't PaulM(in MK) doing Mk3V8??
EDIT: Was gonna say something else, not relevant atm tho'...
I'll be giving WS a call asap(hopefully before chrimbo)...I'd really like to see this in the flesh!
:)
Awesome stuff as usual Paul!
I dident know you would use the MegaSquirt, I'm curious to hear your opinion about the ms2...I think this will be a bigger beast than the 1uzfe, the torque will make it fly...
Awesome stuff as usual Paul!
I dident know you would use the MegaSquirt, I'm curious to hear your opinion about the ms2...I think this will be a bigger beast than the 1uzfe, the torque will make it fly...
He's not using the Megasquirt mate - he's using the VEMS unit.
If the torque is anything like yours, then it'll be stunning!
outstanding work!
now that youve got such a beast of an engine, youll be needing some suspension man enough to cope with the power ;)
outstanding work!
now that youve got such a beast of an engine, youll be needing some suspension man enough to cope with the power ;)
Yep, he's going for Spax
Paul Woods
26-11-2009, 18:52
They gave the spax 4 uhns! :)
Jim i have built my own homebrew coilovers, basically koni inserts rammed into stock tubes with a custom platform welded on,mx5 springs and helper springs on there too for good measure.... it might handle like crap but they cost me tuppence ha'penny to build.
Vems is essentially updated MS, it was the only budget ECU that would run an 8 COP engine, so far i am very happy with its features, the megatune is showing me all sorts of stuff it can do, to be honest all over my head at the moment but i am having to learn mapping very quickly.No plans to ever offer my mapping to a customer, christ no! but it is nice to mess around with my own project to get gains here and there.... or not! :)
Greg a mk3 v8, as paulm will tell you, is a massive conversion, to be honest i don't think i could even begin to price something like this up.... we talked about it some time ago and a ballpark figure of 10k keeps cropping up, around £5k in parts and the rest in labour, but i could be miles off with that guess.
We have had quite a few new enquiries from the 355/murcielago rep boys who have got wind of it and have asked me the same question, but it is very hard to quantify the amount of work a project like this takes.
Cheers podge and paulm and aek, we are the most exclusive section of swappers on TB! :thumbsup:
jevansio
26-11-2009, 20:31
The sound clip just don't do it justice, it's a beast in real life, funnily enough since Paul got it running he's stopped asking me if I want a coffee as I walk in, it's like V8 this & V8 that & listen to my V8 *yawn* :p :D
that sound is absolutely glorious. i hadn't realized you were using an aftermarket ECU to run it. congrats!
loadswine
26-11-2009, 23:58
I've just listened to the sound, my goodness that is so good.
Well done Paul, that is totally momentous. I seem to remember sometime ago you describing one of the V6 conversions as making the sound of an angry devil taking a shit in a portaloo! Well this is all his cousins and uncles letting rip at once. Ace!
:thumbsup:
It certainly not overly loud or boomy from what i can tell from the video, result. :thumbsup:
Paul Woods
27-11-2009, 06:59
funnily enough since Paul got it running he's stopped asking me if I want a coffee as I walk in, it's like V8 this & V8 that & listen to my V8 *yawn*
You love it you slag!
stonking paul, well done.
Diesel Meister
27-11-2009, 23:11
< Nods approvingly.
Nubbad Mr W, nubbad t'all :)
Paul Woods
28-11-2009, 08:00
cheers chaps.
jevansio
28-11-2009, 10:26
I'm a gay leprechaun
:p :D
Paula fired this beast up today. Fooking hell it's madder than Mad McMad Mad. It's liked a caged animal that's just had it's bars rattled by a giant Redwood Tree. Total anger, you have got to hear this. Vid clips just DON'T do it justice.
Took a little clip on my phone.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v300/UK_MRV6/Other%20mr2/?action=view¤t=01122009002.flv
Paul Woods
01-12-2009, 18:59
Linky no worky mate
loadswine
01-12-2009, 19:01
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v300/UK_MRV6/Other%20mr2/?action=view¤t=01122009002.flv
use this, it was in the email link
Oh, utterly awesome!!
Paul Woods
01-12-2009, 19:30
It has to be heard first hand to appreciate the noise coming from this thing, the vids just don't capture it.... i feckin love it!
Still got your Nokia N96 (the slide one) Paul?
That captures cracking sound, give that a bash.
Paul Woods
01-12-2009, 19:36
Mine was an N95 olie, which i don't have now, i had a satio until yesterday, now got an iphone. Phil took this video on his phone which captures the sound better than the satio did.
you know, on this new video you can definitely tell that it is an Audi motor. the way it bubbles a bit on deceleration. it's got a loud roar that you can tell is trying to sound respectful and European.
this always surprises me when hearing new motor swaps. so much of the exhaust note is in the engine itself and the exhaust pipes are rather meaningless to anything but the amplitude of the note.
you can tell by the "1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2" firing order that this is definitely a cross plane V8 yet somehow it avoids that bang --- bang --- bang - bang --- bang - bang --- bang rhythm that American V8s have because of the uneven bank-to-bank power stroke distribution caused by the crossplane crankshaft.
there's also a difference in the high end note because of how relatively late it opens the exhaust valve compared to other motors of similar power/displacement.
very neat. thanks for the 2nd much cleaner audio sample.
ukpaisley
01-12-2009, 20:19
Was that jump leads I saw, flat battery from starting it up all the time lol
brianbooth
01-12-2009, 21:48
you know, on this new video you can definitely tell that it is an Audi motor. the way it bubbles a bit on deceleration. it's got a loud roar that you can tell is trying to sound respectful and European.
this always surprises me when hearing new motor swaps. so much of the exhaust note is in the engine itself and the exhaust pipes are rather meaningless to anything but the amplitude of the note.
you can tell by the "1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2" firing order that this is definitely a cross plane V8 yet somehow it avoids that bang --- bang --- bang - bang --- bang - bang --- bang rhythm that American V8s have because of the uneven bank-to-bank power stroke distribution caused by the crossplane crankshaft.
there's also a difference in the high end note because of how relatively late it opens the exhaust valve compared to other motors of similar power/displacement.
very neat. thanks for the 2nd much cleaner audio sample.
What he said :angel:
What he said :angel:
Same here :rlol::rlol::rlol:
snowtigger
01-12-2009, 22:29
Dito.
you know, on this new video you can definitely tell that it is an Audi motor. the way it bubbles a bit on deceleration. it's got a loud roar that you can tell is trying to sound respectful and European.
this always surprises me when hearing new motor swaps. so much of the exhaust note is in the engine itself and the exhaust pipes are rather meaningless to anything but the amplitude of the note.
you can tell by the "1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2" firing order that this is definitely a cross plane V8 yet somehow it avoids that bang --- bang --- bang - bang --- bang - bang --- bang rhythm that American V8s have because of the uneven bank-to-bank power stroke distribution caused by the crossplane crankshaft.
there's also a difference in the high end note because of how relatively late it opens the exhaust valve compared to other motors of similar power/displacement.
very neat. thanks for the 2nd much cleaner audio sample.
Something myself and Anth had many a discussion over, how exactly will it sound?
I'm waiting to hear it in the metal before i make any judgement. Sounds good from the videos though.
Paul Woods
02-12-2009, 06:47
Well even anth is happy with the sound, and you know what a miserable bastard he is..... even his blood type is B negative.
Gouky you could tell all of that from the sound? are you rainman? :)
Well even anth is happy with the sound, and you know what a miserable bastard he is..... even his blood type is B negative.
Gouky you could tell all of that from the sound? are you rainman? :)
i confirmed the firing order via the internet.
some people describe the way wine tastes. I like listening to engines :)
Diesel Meister
02-12-2009, 12:50
Much better hobby imo!
Euro V8s, particularly the Teutonic ones do sound different to detroit iron. Sometimes they're almost apologetic from the factory (too many silencers). But they are very definitely discernable in their oratory manners and once liberated can be positively majestic.
Italy is a whole other ball game again, partly due to a fetsh for flat plane cranks and particularly in terms of being "expressive" in terms of volume lol
They sound like silenced hoovers, compared to the old school, big block V8's from The Motor City.
Diesel Meister
02-12-2009, 13:51
Detroit iron = proper :)
I'd love an LS in something relatively unassuming and european, like a 3 series touring. In fact, before doing the two, I was looking at FI'd MX-5s, then got ditracted by the prospect of an LS-powered variant (alas it would have been about twice as much as current project). No replacement for displacement, especially when you have a positively herculean amount of torque rocking the car to the sound of slo-mo explosions (I love a lumpy V8 idle almost as much as the aural carnage that ensues at full throttle).
On topic, didn't the Spyker C8 use a well-poked Audi 4.2 V8? That also sounded rather savage. In a good way :)
Diesel Meister
02-12-2009, 14:02
That would be welly nice.
Why stop there though? (http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/Parts/showcase_detail.jsp?engine=2) You can buy from GM their new spec crate motors which include the LSX (rated to drag strip levels of power - think 2.5k bhp) and the LS9 (6.2 S/C from the ZR1). Any of those would be fairly stonking in a MkIV Supdawg lol
Or an FD RX7 :)
Detroit iron = proper :)
I'd love an LS in something relatively unassuming and european, like a 3 series touring. In fact, before doing the two, I was looking at FI'd MX-5s, then got ditracted by the prospect of an LS-powered variant (alas it would have been about twice as much as current project). No replacement for displacement, especially when you have a positively herculean amount of torque rocking the car to the sound of slo-mo explosions (I love a lumpy V8 idle almost as much as the aural carnage that ensues at full throttle).
On topic, didn't the Spyker C8 use a well-poked Audi 4.2 V8? That also sounded rather savage. In a good way :)
Did you see that beast on PH?
It looks like the vids been over-dubbed with a Corvette soundtrack, it just doesn't compute what you're seeing and hearing.
Diesel Meister
02-12-2009, 17:52
Yep - that's what I was after :)
You can get LS3s in 480bhp and 515bhp tune. Ori-mental MX-5.
Paul Woods
02-12-2009, 18:43
Well my 50mm thick aluminium rad upgrade solution arrived today... hopefully this will cope with whatever the V8 can throw at it...
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg
Here it is fitted, still got top brackets to make...
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/156.jpg
All of my standard steel radiator pipework has been ripped out and much larger diameter aluminium pipes run from front to rear, so no part of the stock aw11 cooling system remains now.... well it's an MR8 now isn't it!
I see it doesn't have a bleed valve, are you going to drill and tap a thread in for one or make it part of the rubber pipework at that top inlet/outlet?
That Rad looks fantastic, no plastic cover for this thing
Paul Woods
02-12-2009, 19:14
It will have a bleed valve by the time i am finished olie, dead simples that one.
No cover for definate hasad!, It's the shiniest bit of the car :)
It will have a bleed valve by the time i am finished olie, dead simples that one.
No cover for definate hasad!, It's the shiniest bit of the car :)
apart from the drivers coco
Paul Woods
02-12-2009, 19:27
Shut it you, i've an iphone now remember, i'll pop an app in yer ass!
Shut it you, i've an iphone now remember, i'll pop an app in yer ass!
via email? On the account I had to help you setup? With guidance from the app I told you to download? :thumbsup: go for it, ipint!
snowtigger
02-12-2009, 20:56
That's to strong for Paul he needs to work up to ipint he needs ishandy first or ialcopop.
ROFL :) And nice rad too, will this be about the same as the ones your going to make paul?
Paul Woods
03-12-2009, 07:07
Yes this will be the same one that i use for the kit/conversion upgrades.
Paul Woods
08-12-2009, 19:12
I have started tubing out my shell with bracing everywhere i think it's going to be needed.... my plan for the cabin is this, but with no roof bars going forward, just along the floor and triangulating the corners.
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/163.jpg
In the engine bay i am putting a tube between the strut towers (blue) and two bars going from this down onto the crossmember.
From the front face of the struts i am going forward onto the yellow cabin tubing (shown in green) and also triangulating from the cabin tubing down onto the engine bay chassis leg.
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/164.jpg
Excuse the shitty drawings, it was hard trying to explain what i'm planning.
So my question is, can anyone think of anywhere else some bracing/tubing or triangulating might help?
robwsurf
08-12-2009, 19:42
looks abit like the bracing in the back of a mk3
as far as adding tubing goes...Id probably add just a couple more tubes...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/31.jpg
Id add some uprights to your roll hoop, last thing you want when it ends up on its lid is it folding.but Id rather not see it on its lid to start with but things dont always go to plan, and stuff like that does happen.
Paul, if I were you I'd seriously consider a full cage in there, with door bars, and additional bracing to the horizontal member behind the dash and the B pillars near the upper seatbelt mounts
well yeah, a full cage would be better still. but if he is just looking at a roll hoop it does need MORE support.
and a full cage with intrusion beams/door bars does make access a pain, awkward for seating.
tying it up under the dash is a plan though. but your better off replacing the factory bar with some regular roll cage tubing
dunno how you guys get on with your MOT stuff, but over here a roll hoop needs a cert plate, a full cage needs an engineers report and an authority card if you want to have it legal for road use, and to keep the authority card valid you have to do 3 official motorsport events each year, and have them recorded in your MANZ log book. otherwise no WOF/MOT for you:(
BennyTheW
09-12-2009, 02:46
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/31.jpg
I SOOO recon you should finish that engine box with perspex... with the rest of it finished and all the detaining done it would look AMAZING....
Little window+big V= Big smiles...
Paul Woods
09-12-2009, 07:05
Wish i could benny, but alas if an engine component ever let go at speed i'd need pope-mobile strength type plexi to stop a piston going through my back, which i'd like to avoid :) I have used a minimum of 3mm plate around all of this area just in case.
Cheers for the input into the tubing chaps, i should have added that the reason for the tubing is for bracing the chassis a little rather than roll protection.I have pretty much come to the conclusion that if it rolls i'm screwed anyway and the car will be a write off in any case.
Also jay raised a good point yesterday when we talked about the cage and he opened my eyes a bit to the fact that if you have a full cage with roof bars above the drivers and passengers heads (along the top of the door) , that unless you are wearing a helmet all of the time they become an extremely dangerous thing to have in the cabin.A low impact collision and your head batters straight off a steel bar.... so i am kind of swayed away from roof bars, thinking more about bracing along the floor,turrets,chassis legs, that sort of thing.
Totally agree on the current roll hoop design sketchy, to work properly that needs more support, i was going to terminate that vertical bar at the window and just tie it in horizontally to the engine box but i thought making it a hoop might be cosmetically better looking.... but you are dead right, as a roll hoop it needs more.... i am not too sure what's for the best there.
Also the bar running along the top of the engine box in the cabin, is going to be an anchorage point for harnesses as well as keeping the standard seat belts for normal road use.
Paul Woods
09-12-2009, 07:12
How about adding two bars from the roll hoop down to the corners of the engine boxing? (red)
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/165.jpg
Diesel Meister
09-12-2009, 09:34
Paul totally agree re. roadability of full cages - it's pretty much a no-no in terms of bonce protection if you drive without a lid at all. I think you're on the right tack in terms of adding some torsional strength as opposed to crash protection (there's no bloody room for a decent cage in there methinks!) but I'm afraid my engineering skills are non-existent so I'll just throw hob-nobs at you and cheer you on lol
if your already halfway up the car you may as well add a little more steel and make it a roll hoop, the bracing off the top of the box in theory could be an option.
but Id put the seats in and maybe put the belt mount tube in and see where the belts sit(as that geometry is kinda IMPORTANT) before I put the legs down to your engine frame box thingamy
and if you add bars where I put the blue lines(behind the B pillar just) it wont be to inconvieniant to get in or out,and unless you have the seat right backit shouldn't get in the way.Id almost make the blue lines the main hoop. and run the legs down to the firewall.
Wish i could benny, but alas if an engine component ever let go at speed i'd need pope-mobile strength type plexi to stop a piston going through my back, which i'd like to avoid :) I have used a minimum of 3mm plate around all of this area just in case.
Cheers for the input into the tubing chaps, i should have added that the reason for the tubing is for bracing the chassis a little rather than roll protection.I have pretty much come to the conclusion that if it rolls i'm screwed anyway and the car will be a write off in any case.
Also jay raised a good point yesterday when we talked about the cage and he opened my eyes a bit to the fact that if you have a full cage with roof bars above the drivers and passengers heads (along the top of the door) , that unless you are wearing a helmet all of the time they become an extremely dangerous thing to have in the cabin.A low impact collision and your head batters straight off a steel bar.... so i am kind of swayed away from roof bars, thinking more about bracing along the floor,turrets,chassis legs, that sort of thing.
Totally agree on the current roll hoop design sketchy, to work properly that needs more support, i was going to terminate that vertical bar at the window and just tie it in horizontally to the engine box but i thought making it a hoop might be cosmetically better looking.... but you are dead right, as a roll hoop it needs more.... i am not too sure what's for the best there.
Also the bar running along the top of the engine box in the cabin, is going to be an anchorage point for harnesses as well as keeping the standard seat belts for normal road use.
Aye Jays right mate about the roll cage. Any kind of impact without you wearing a helmet and your heed would total your car and the wagon you crashed into as well.
I think you should make an exo-skeleton-cage for it ;)
Paul Woods
09-12-2009, 18:55
Well i welded the first 3 tubes into the rear as per the mock up diagrams i drew...
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/166.jpg
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/167.jpg
The more i hear this engine run the more important i think good bracing is going to be, also the suspension set up is going to be crucial, might need Jimsr's advice on that one! Also weight will play a factor too so any advice you can give jim would be brill. :thumbsup:
Diesel Meister
09-12-2009, 20:26
Jim'll happily double your investment I'm sure lol
Seriously though Paul, I reckon a motor like this is deserving of some custom setup, whether coils or not. That way you can ensure you get a nice streetable setup capable of giving you a fighting chance over the bumps and through the curves :)
Did you tig or Mig that Paul ?
Paul Woods
09-12-2009, 21:21
Mig Paul , I've always wanted to buy a good tig welder
Mig Paul , I've always wanted to buy a good tig welder
That's the oldest Sky Plus ever. Been telling me that for 3 years!! :)
Paul Woods
09-12-2009, 21:36
Yeah but our mig produces such neat welds (on a good day!) just never needed one
Yeah but our mig produces such neat welds (on a good day!) just never needed one
Anth is a bit of a legend on that aye.
Mig Paul , I've always wanted to buy a good tig welder
Looking good mate, might pop over tomorrow.
Will you be able to get the football scores on that? Might be able to find out last weeks score.
Does look nice and neat
Still practicing with my Tig, ok on steel at the mo, but with ali I'm all over the place
might need Jimsr's advice on that one! Also weight will play a factor too so any advice you can give jim would be brill. :thumbsup:
you reconsidering the Koni + coilover sleeve approach? obviously with the Konis theres only so much you can do. they cant be easily revalved, and even if you go to the bother of making them revalvable they are still limited. youre pretty much stuck with the damping youve got and the rest will be spring and ARB choice.
you still got those mk3 Ohlins lying around somewhere?
Paul Woods
10-12-2009, 06:42
No i sold the mk3 ohlins years ago jim, they were ridiculously stiff, might as well have had no suspension on at all, bouncing on the wings the car just didn't move.Just looking at all options now just in case my homebrew set up is cack.
the Japanese spec Ohlins do tend to come valved on the stiff side, its their one downfall. theyre easily revalved though and the overall quality of the damper is very good. in terms of value for money a revalved set of Japanese Ohlins should outperform anything else in the same price category.
with regards options - youve obviously got the Koni + coilover sleeves already. stepping up from that your next option is probably a set of converted mk2 Ohlins. you can pick the mk2 setups up for about £200-400 in useable condition. if they need servicing then that can be done, if they dont then its just a simple revalve and custom cases made for them. ive spoken to a few guys on the US MR2OC forums about it and the pricing probably works out somewhere around £1500 plus the Ohlins and springs, or about £1800 if they need a full service. those are rough prices, ive not worked it out properly yet, id need to price up some of the machining work to give definite pricing.
these would be completely custom valved and sprung to the application though. single adjustable inverted macpherson struts. it would be an awesome setup, if possibly a little pricey compared to Konis and coilover sleeves.
then the next step up from that is scratch built Swedish Ohlins, which start out around £3200 for single adjustables all round. youve also got Toda Fightex dampers in the same price bracket.
as for other options i guess youve got BC Racing coilovers, but they are largely untested, especially in long term running (e.g. durability), im not sure the valving would be suitable for a V8 engined MR2 and they dont have a technical service network outside of Taiwan (e.g. finding someone to revalve them to your requirements wont be easy). other than that you could possibly convert something from a mk2, the valving would probably be closer than stock AW11 kit because of the added weight and power of the mk2 turbo. that would open up some cheaper options.
Paul Woods
11-12-2009, 18:36
Cheers jim :thumbsup:
Right, this past week i have been firing the v8 up and just checking how it runs etc and i have been getting really bad crank trigger errors all week.It sometimes doesn't start and backfires badly during cranking, when it does start it is sweet and will run for 3 or 4 minutes, then it loses VR signal and dies.Cranking again is more backfiring until it picks up the VR signal properly and it is away again.
I have been conversing with andy (ECU/harness maker) and after doing a batch of tests it appears the runout on my deltavag flywheel trigger ring is to blame ( i have a new VR sensor fitted so it's not that).
I am going to have to take the gearbox back off anyway to fit the clutch but i have had enough messing around with this VR set up now and i have bought a crank pulley mounting 60-2 trigger wheel from the US, so that i can relocate a ford VR sensor on the front of the engine and get rid of the deltavag set up, that is nothing more than a regular flywheel now.
Deltavag suck arse!
Sorry to hear that Paul, thats bad news...to make it a little worse I've got a spare 60-2 you could've had for nowt
Paul Woods
11-12-2009, 19:30
Oh ballbags, i've just paid £43 for one from the US lol... typical isn't it! cheers anyway mate, tis the thought that counts.
I have started tubing out my shell with bracing everywhere i think it's going to be needed.... my plan for the cabin is this, but with no roof bars going forward, just along the floor and triangulating the corners.
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg
Paul - just looking at this again, I think you could do with a horizontal bar across the front of the engine box picking up on the top of the centre tunnel to restore some of the longitudinal stiffness lost by chopping the tunnel
Paul Woods
12-12-2009, 15:43
That's a good idea, i will need to see if i have enough room behind my seats for that, (should do but clearances are very tight).If i have space i will definately include that one, thanks mart :thumbsup:
robwsurf
12-12-2009, 18:09
if its higher up would have more clearance near head rest hight and handy for if your using harnesses
Paul Woods
12-12-2009, 18:18
rob i think the one mart means to add is in green below, i am already going to add the one in red which i think will be perfect for harness height, well that's the plan anyway!
http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/168.jpg
You should be alright with that one paul I have one in that position and no problems with contact I've got to hire a proper tube bender for mine to finish the roll hoop. Tried bending my cds with a hydrolic bender and just crimped the tube luckily I have more. Hope the new trigger wheel works out for you all the best podge
snowtigger
13-12-2009, 00:49
Did you fill the tubes with sand podge stops them collapsing apparently from what I've heard, it's only what I've heard mind so don't quote me on it if it all goes tits up.
That's looking proper lush that is Paul.
That's supposed to help the bends come out like mandrel bends but apparently it's a pile of poo.
yep tried sand tamped it all in and it still crimped sorry for the thread hijack back to v8 goodness
Paul Woods
13-12-2009, 18:22
My tube bender does the same thing podge, it is ok for the slight bends but for the 90* stuff i am going to weld in proper joiners.
I think its the difference between pipe and tube that causes the problems, we use tube but try and bend them on a pipe bender, although the F-I-L has found some tube that bends well in a pipe bender, its about 50mm dia, I'll find out the spec of it and come back
after christmas ill be hireing a rotary draw tube bender so will be able to construct it in one if you want yours done give me a shout as ive got to hire it for a week
with the roll hoop you really are better off with it being a one piece, no potential for failed welds.
other than the points were it joins other tubes.
I have a contact who can supply and bend pipe at a reasonable cost, if you want me to ask gimme a shout. I built my own land rover WIMK using CDS a while back, I'll find a pic....
this is what i use to bend tube. it's fantastic and does not kink tube (as long as it is 0.095 wall or thicker:
http://www.jd2.com/shop/custom.aspx?recid=1
they even have metric dies now.
most roll cage makers will bend you up tube cheaply enough. ive got one local to me, but thats the opposite end of the country to Paul. there will be one further north somewhere.
Paul Woods
17-12-2009, 17:32
After studying the audi cooling system (as it would be on the S8) i discovered an Mr2 coolant filler point was not going to work, the highest rated cap i can find for the Mr2 is a 1.5bar Sard cap, and the S8 runs closer to 1.7bar max pressure.... so using the mr2 filler neck was binned off.
So i needed to look at the VAG way of doing things, and took a punt on a VW golf custom expansion bottle, this will plumb up correctly to the V8 system and will have the S8 stock 22psi cap fitted, it's also a bit of eye candy in the engine bay.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/100.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/101.jpg
Diesel Meister
17-12-2009, 23:03
Sweet. You'll need to turn the V8 badge 180 degrees at some stage though lol
Paul Woods
18-12-2009, 09:18
I did think about doing that, or get rid of it and it might be a good place for the stickers paulm and i have just bought off ebay...
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/102.jpg
Diesel Meister
18-12-2009, 10:25
lol Class
Nah...bastardise it into saying 8A(maybe even 8A-GE??)...and then crease at the resulting baffled Toyotabods... lol
Or not, of course...
:)
8V-FE (play on words in the beginning!)
rattymr2
19-12-2009, 10:59
Surely it means he put the engine in back to front. You need to start again Woodsy.
Paul Woods
19-12-2009, 11:02
Doh!! oh well, 6 reverse gears at mach 1.
Paul Woods
22-12-2009, 18:51
More test running, this time with a fully sorted cooling system, twin 11" spal fans on my radiator, hooked up to the stock Mk1 rad switch/relays and VW expansion bottle with 22psi cap.
It ran for 15 minutes with no fans on, then when it hit 88* at the EFI temp sensor the rad fans came on slowly (first stage), the temp then climbed to 92* over the next 15 minutes (no revving at all so just letting it heat soak as much as possible), no water pump hurling the coolant round quickly, just idle.At 92* the fans kicked in to their second stage and stayed on, the temp rose to 94* at the EFI sensor for 2 minutes before dropping back to 92*, fans went back onto their first stage and the cycle repeated itself.
After this idle heatsoak test passed i let it get to 92* and then revved the throttle and the temp instantly dropped back to 88* so my cooling system is perfect for handling this v8.
Here is my second test running video, this was early on during the warmup, EFI only at 50* or so.Everything in the bay is still dummy rigged so if things look in an odd place it is only temporary.
iwZLbNwc7_U
I am still getting bad trigger errors during cranking and oddly at no other time? but this will be rectified soon.
Very nice Paul, I think Audi's usually run at 90 (or are designed to at least, so the 88-92 temp reading sounds spot on.
Do you start up in sequential mode or wasted spark ?
I get similar errors when starting up in sequential mode, but not on wasted spark, apparently due to noise on the lines of the crank and cam sensors
Gary Symons
22-12-2009, 19:23
cool! (pun intended :mrgreen:)
Paul Woods
22-12-2009, 19:23
Now that is something i don't know paul, i will need to look into that.Oddly once it runs i get no trigger errors at all, but i get them every single time during cranking, big backfires the lot.My signal wires for cam and crank are very well shielded so unless it is noise from the starter motor or something? That is the only thing that differs from it cranking and running as far as i can tell.
I'm switching to a front pulley mounted trigger set up anyway, i have no faith in the deltashite flywheel at all now.
Am liking that bracing between the struts, can see that helping things a lot mid corner :)
is this the crank sensor you relocated? if so is the sensor a variable reluctance sensor?
these types of sensors require a minimum RPM before they produce a good usable signal. since your battery is mounted further you may not be cranking fast enough. just on the edge of the sensor's usable range.
you can compensate for this by making a bigger trigger wheel or bigger starter cables or a beefier starter.
it also helps if the edges on the sensor wheel are very square.
your battery may also just be feeling the pain of the excessive starts.
OH, i forgot the other one. variable reluctance sensors are also extremely sensitive to sensor distance. if you can close up the gap a little bit, the minimum RPM will go down significantly. even 10thou would make a noticeable difference
I cant explain it myself, fortunately the DTA has the option of running in wasted spark below a user rpm before going sequential, so I had a look at the manual it . Reading the notes it seems to say its due to mainly cam ( Hall effect) errors at low rpm, ie cranking (obviously the cam sync and crank sync is needed for the sequential firing).
Now that is something i don't know paul, i will need to look into that.Oddly once it runs i get no trigger errors at all, but i get them every single time during cranking, big backfires the lot.My signal wires for cam and crank are very well shielded so unless it is noise from the starter motor or something? That is the only thing that differs from it cranking and running as far as i can tell.
I'm switching to a front pulley mounted trigger set up anyway, i have no faith in the deltashite flywheel at all now.
Paul Woods
23-12-2009, 07:47
Cheers for that marc, i am pretty sure the engine cranks fast enough but i will stick my booster charger onto it today and really spin it quickly to dismiss/confirm that one.
I do know my VR sensor is not quite right distance wise, currently it pokes through a hole in the bellhousing and picks up on a strip with square holes in it running around the circumference of the flywheel. What i have a hard time understanding is why it backfires violently during cranking (hot or cold) but then fires up and runs perfectly. If left to idle and never revved it will drop its VR signal a few beats here and there, then lose signal totally.
Now if i get it started and rev the engine to say 2000rpm for 30 secs and then let it naturally idle it will never drop VR signal and will run all day long if i wanted.... this is the bit i am having a hard time understanding, surely if it was getting a poor VR signal it would never idle correctly? Why would revving it during start up give it a good idle signal?
Either way i am switching to a front mount trigger set up so that i can play with the gaps easier, currently i have to work through a small hole with a depth gauge and filing bits of plastic off sensors to adjust the gap, which is poo.
So paul, you have been getting the same symptoms during cranking but in wasted mode it fires up without trigger errors?
yeah, it really sounds like you're on the edge of the proper distance. by high idling the motor for 30seconds you warm up the flywheel just enough for it to grow by a few thousands and get closer to the sensor.
i've worked with variable reluctance sensors before. they do save money over hall effect sensors, but damn are they finicky.
shave the plastic or whatever you have to do to get the sensor another 10-15thou closer to the wheel. you'll be happily surprised.
*edit* or change to a hall effect sensor if you can. they aren't RPM dependent
Exactly Paul,
In sequential mode it picked up crank errors and small backfires, which I thought was due to the injector phasing not being right and unburnt fuel being in the exhaust, so I switched it to wasted spark and it fires up fine and dandy.
Does the VEMS inject fuel before its synched everything up ? if so that may be where backfire comes from. ie with a low rpm and slightly distant sensor its not injecting or sparking at the correct time
IIRC quite a few ECU's wont start to inject or spark until it s correctly seeing the flywheel and cam teeth. Which avoids the problem.
Done a couple of tests
I'd go with the sensor position, I havent finished my flywheel yet so I'm using the old flex plate and have clamped the sensor to the block so its damn near touching the flywheel teeth, I tried altering the distance and I can replicate the errors you've got. ( both in wasted and sequential). I'm also using battery and booster and it defo helps.
Cheers for that marc, i am pretty sure the engine cranks fast enough but i will stick my booster charger onto it today and really spin it quickly to dismiss/confirm that one.
I do know my VR sensor is not quite right distance wise, currently it pokes through a hole in the bellhousing and picks up on a strip with square holes in it running around the circumference of the flywheel. What i have a hard time understanding is why it backfires violently during cranking (hot or cold) but then fires up and runs perfectly. If left to idle and never revved it will drop its VR signal a few beats here and there, then lose signal totally.
Now if i get it started and rev the engine to say 2000rpm for 30 secs and then let it naturally idle it will never drop VR signal and will run all day long if i wanted.... this is the bit i am having a hard time understanding, surely if it was getting a poor VR signal it would never idle correctly? Why would revving it during start up give it a good idle signal?
Either way i am switching to a front mount trigger set up so that i can play with the gaps easier, currently i have to work through a small hole with a depth gauge and filing bits of plastic off sensors to adjust the gap, which is poo.
So paul, you have been getting the same symptoms during cranking but in wasted mode it fires up without trigger errors?
Paul Woods
23-12-2009, 17:42
Cheers fellas, that certainly does all make sense, i too think it must be the VR sensor gap, the other problem is the deltashite flywheel is oscillating like johnnys belly.They have just welded a holed strip around the outside of the fly, i am far from happy with that arrangement.
So front mount 60-2 it is, with Ford VR and a proper gap.I am going to send my pulley plus trigger to adamh for some nice machine work as i want it to be perfect this time.
Many thanks for your input chaps :thumbsup:
Paul Woods
24-12-2009, 18:06
Earlier this week i started work on my chassis stiffeners/rollcage, so far i have made the roll over hoop section and the door bars, sorry no pics because my iphone takes crap pics without perfect light.
I have also finalized the design of the cage, more in mind to stiffening than roll protection but i took the advice of you good folks and added supports to the roll cage.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/126.jpg
I do think i will benefit mostly from the triangulation back to the struts.
jevansio
25-12-2009, 11:16
Nice computer skillz Paul :)
Are you planning on going down to the workshop anytime over the Xmas break?
Depends if he's got a hangover Jay :)
Paul Woods
25-12-2009, 11:48
I will be there on sunday to process some card payments , not sure i'm allowed to go awol :)
ukpaisley
25-12-2009, 11:52
Well the mr2 wont snap in half, but you need diagnol brace, or put gusset in the lateral section tubes around the rear bulk. Was a long time since I saw this, but if you put a trangular gusset in each corner you could then bolt in a removable X , that will give you access when needed and keep weight down.
ukpaisley
25-12-2009, 11:59
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/127.jpg
Completely agree, triangulate the rectangle. I think he'll get away with just one diagonal cross beam though.
I was also saying he need an impact bar which is chassis connected in front of the engine cradle to absorb anything from a potential rear impact.
Paul Woods
25-12-2009, 12:11
All taken onboard, i have added gussets to the design and i am also thinking about adding a triangle section from the front strut tower to the A pillar and linking that to the cage with a removable bar in either the green or orange positions , thoughts?
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/128.jpg
I would put the green one in anyway.
The orange one, not so sure as the doors already have impact bars, don't they?
ukpaisley
25-12-2009, 12:17
I think u have got it covered. As you are putting back what was there and some, pluss you are supporting the rear with a brace, think that covers it. Anyway you are not just gonna go out and track day it from day one so you can allways add later !!
Looking good when paint planned ?
Paul Woods
25-12-2009, 12:18
Just had a thought, how about no orange one, and pivot the green one at the blue dot so that it can just swing up out of the way for entry and lock back down afterwards? shit idea?
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/129.jpg
I can't see what it would add, personally and you're creating a lot of work.
Keep all the red, then add one from the top corner to the opposing bottom corner.
ukpaisley
25-12-2009, 12:26
The diagnol is to stop youre strength on the left and right side from twisting. You have the shell structure over the doors and the trangulation in front of the rear wheel arch, transfering to the rear of the engine compartment. Try to think if you reversed up a ramp on one rear wheel its that shell twist you need to take care of , the rest is fine.
Looks good whats done so rar.
personally, i think if you're going that far you're silly not to put in a full roll cage. it makes for much better body bracing and helps in a rollover.
i think you were fine at this point. not sure I'd even put that final bar between the A & B pillar along the floor.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/126.jpg
now, if you want to build a race car cage, that's a totally different story. a race car is designed to crash at 100-150mph, a road car is designed to crash at 60-80mph.
personally i don't even like the roll hoop in the above picture. it's a safety hazard unless you're wearing a helmet in the car. Many people have been killed in low speed accidents with roll cages in their cars because they split their head open on a roll cage bar. a roll cage/hoop should never be used without a helmet. NEVER.
*edit* sorry, re-read that last statement and it comes across as a bit condescending. it isn't my intention I've just heard of too many people getting seriously hurt because of this very problem.
Decent padding is what you want on the roll cage. It'll still hurt when u twat it but it certainly helps with the low speed stuff.
Driftin_AW
25-12-2009, 22:18
proper roll hoop padding is still very rigid and designed to be used with a helmet. I would suggest not having bars within half a metre of your head, or if closer then not in line of sight (i.e. behind seats where your head can't contact it)
Plasticgeordie2007
26-12-2009, 07:46
In the Toyota Sprint Series they wont let cars with roll cages race without the cars being fitted with multi point braces instead of seat belts to try and stop drivers heads hitting the rollcages in accidents.
Paul Woods
26-12-2009, 11:01
None of my bars are within range of heads though, the roll hoop is behind the seats and every other bar follows the seat contours so there isn't actually anything to bang your head against with this design.
Jay alerted me to this last week, up until then i was going to fit roof bars.
Paul Woods
28-12-2009, 14:40
Have a look at my chrimbo pressie....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/135.jpg
Should look something like this on the car, apologies to whoever owns this mk1, was the first JDM light rear view i could find.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/136.jpg
burkedara
28-12-2009, 15:02
Thats class, pity we cant get personalised plates over here!
Surely Paul, that back end is too small. Plate looks spot on.
Have a look at my chrimbo pressie....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/135.jpg
Should look something like this on the car, apologies to whoever owns this mk1, was the first JDM light rear view i could find.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/136.jpg
Becky should be well chuffed with that.
Beckys MR2
Paul Woods
28-12-2009, 15:11
FFS! she has already been badgering about it :)
FFS! she has already been badgering about it :)
Can you photoshop it onto a silver mk2 so I can see where it will end up!
Paul Woods
28-12-2009, 15:17
Piss off you.
Piss off you.
;):thebird:
Shite plate!! You are not right in the head!
Paul Woods
28-12-2009, 16:31
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/12/137.jpg
boostedcamry
28-12-2009, 16:32
I agree sick in the head!
It'll be :
BMR
2V
on a jap plate will it not?
Paul Woods
28-12-2009, 18:41
Ah but who says i'm using a jap plate? A short UK plate will do.
snowtigger
28-12-2009, 19:38
And swop it or have a very understanding mot guy who will pass it with a non standard jap import plate on it?
I have spotted T 1 GGS but it's rather too expensive, my other half whants me to have M 1 LFC mid life crisis, I thought she meant mike no1 liverpool football club.
Can you do that? I thought you'd get tugged constantly (fnnar) if it was just a wee one?
And swop it or have a very understanding mot guy who will pass it with a non standard jap import plate on it?
I have spotted T 1 GGS but it's rather too expensive, my other half whants me to have M 1 LFC mid life crisis, I thought she meant mike no1 liverpool football club.
Don't you mean M1LF C
snowtigger
28-12-2009, 20:57
He may like getting tugged constantly olber just so they can have a look at his v8 goodness.
pilotpete
28-12-2009, 21:53
He may like getting tugged constantly olber just so they can have a look at his v8 goodness.
Here we go, getting smutty again....all this talk about 'tugging'. What Paul does in his own time........and as for his V8 goodness !!!!
Paul Woods
29-12-2009, 08:54
Worst case scenario i will use UK back lights and a full UK plate so it reads MR2 , but i really don't see a problem using a shortened UK plate as long as the digits are the correct size and i keep the spacing legal, which it will be.
Worst case scenario i will use UK back lights and a full UK plate so it reads MR2 , but i really don't see a problem using a shortened UK plate as long as the digits are the correct size and i keep the spacing legal, which it will be.
You should be okay Paul, both Paff and I had import size plates with the reg on a single line.
Only pic I could find is from Jae06 and can only just make them out.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/07/217.jpg
Also found these unrelated but made me smile.
KcWX6pDkrDA
Oqxtf89eVlk
:hijack: over
Paul Woods
29-12-2009, 16:21
LOL all i remember is you and i holding onto that gazebo for grim death! It literally took all my strength to stop it lifting off... unbelieveable storm that was.
Back to the plate, yes that is exactly what i want to do, it is only 5 characters wide so no reason why it won't all legally fit on one line of an import plate.
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