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View Full Version : my MR2 is rotten!



Jim-SR
29-12-2007, 16:26
not really 1.5 related, but figure people read more in here, and im looking for some encouragement from people whove fixed worse (hopefully there are some people who have!!!!)

a bit of background on my MR2 - it was bought by a mate of mine (Alessandro on here, he hasnt been on since he sold me the car i dont think tho) about 4 years ago, i went and looked over it with him and managed to get him what we both regarded as a bargain at the time. it had some rust on it, but nothing horrendous. the rust started to come through though after a few months, so he took it to a garage in Cardiff who then supposedly completely restored the bodywork. he barely used the car for the next couple of years as he was in Cardiff at uni and the car lived at his house in London. eventually i persuaded him to sell me it, as i knew it had been "restored", and should be a good clean example. i gave it a good look over and there were a few patches where surface rust was coming back on the arches, but nothing horrific from what i could see, and that was that. i bought it last January

so anyway, i took all the side skirts off a month after buying it and there was some rust on the sills, they were starting to go soft and i knew it needed welding. i never got round to it, drove the car until September, then took it off the road, where its been to now

today i thought id strip the skirts off and poke all the rust through to get an idea of how bad it is, and here are the results...

Offside rear sill. the outer skin is f*cked, it will need a substantial amount cutting out, further than what ive pressed through (although ive pressed through all of the complete rust, what is left around the edges is still mostly shiny metal and solid, but theres surface rust on it). the inner skin however looks perfect, just minor surface rust, so it will need sanding back, treating, and then undersealing before the outer skin gets welded up
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/12/200.jpg

Offside front wheel well has rotted a bit where the anti roll bar mount is. the exact same happened on my first MR2 in the exact same place. its not a hard repair, just so long as there isnt more problems lurking beneath the surface. theres no guarantees that it hasnt rotted further along as well. i havent attacked it with a hammer yet
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/12/201.jpg

Nearside front wing, where it meets the sill. the sill is completely intact, just some minor surface patches on the bottom bit where stones have bounced up. the front wing doesnt bother me as that is easily removed and repaired, and the inner skin on the chassis looks alright. however there is a patch of rust on the inside of the car not far from here, and also on the door shut, so im worried it may be rotting from the inside out. a hammer was unable to punch any significant holes though, so when i remove the front wing il give it more inspection
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/12/202.jpg

and now for the finale, the worse part by far. this is the nearside rear sill section, which is completely rotten! again, ONLY on the outer skin though, the inner skin looks absolutely perfect and is solid as a rock, just minor surface rust. so it will be repairable, but the whole outer sill has pretty much gone
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/12/203.jpg


so the rust is fairly bad, but i dont think its beyond repair, far from it. the biggest issue with it all, is that this rust was meant to have been repaired!! the wing that is rotten was supposedly a brand new replacement, yet it has red paint underneath the blue paint, so was clearly a used one. and the nearside rear sill section was horrendous. i was poking away, and all of a sudden hit something soft. so i pulled metal away, and there was a big lump of blue workshop paper rag. i tried to pull it out, and off fell a 3" round lump of sill. the bodyshop hadnt bothered to weld ANYTHING on the whole car. instead, they knocked all the rust out, and stuffed paper rag in the holes to support FILLER, which they repaired all of the rust with! i have a photo of the car being repaired, which has filler on it, but i assumed the filler was put over freshly welded areas to fill any flatspots. so il have to go over all those areas now to check they werent just bodged with filler too (the sections behind the rear wheels where the mudflaps attach are definitely entirely filler, i can hear it)

im trying to get in touch with my mate Alex who had the car before me to a) warn him never to use this garage again, as i think he has used them quite a lot. and b) to find out who they are so i can name and shame them so that others dont encounter their horrific workmanship. Alex paid a lot of money to have the car repaired and resprayed, its not like it was a cheap bodge job. and it looked immaculate for a year, but due to improper repairs all of the rust has come back, 3 times worse than it was in the first place because their shiny new paintjob has been hiding it all beneath the surface whilst its rotted for the past 2-3 years

so, any words of reassurance that this is repairable, or should i start thinking about calling it a day on this shell (its got a lot of time invested into it, but zero cash at present, aside from the initial purchase)?

id like to get it good as its a car i know the history of, its not had any proper accidents (some dozy woman reversed into it and dented the door a couple of years ago, which was replaced), its got a mostly awesome paintjob as it was all resprayed (a bush overhanging the road scratched one side up though), and the work to get another shell to this level would take me a month. this car is completely stripped, literally everything inside the car is gone. all thats left to do is strip out wiring (and build my own loom with only stuff i need on it) and the bumper bars really, and then trickier things like losing the headlight motors and engine bay components, etc.

P.S. heres how it looked at JAE just after Alex had got all the work done on it. a bit of a contrast to its current state!!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/12/204.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/12/205.jpg

Paul Woods
29-12-2007, 16:36
chin up jim,ive restored far worse than that,adamh has just been through the mill on his car too which was in a shocking state,they usually go in all the areas yours has plus door posts,floors,ARB mounts,rear sills,screen tops and loads of other little places....id say yours is no worse than any 20 year old mr2 really and easily fixable with escort sills and a few plates.

Jim-SR
29-12-2007, 17:09
floors are all perfect, windscreen top is only minor rust and easily cleaned up (its structurally sound), door posts are fine, and only 1 ARB mount is bad. so i guess its not horrendous lol. theres a couple of other minor bits like where the blower duct comes into the car, theres some rusty bits on that. im gonna weld that up and seal it off tho as im not running any of the standard heater setup.

thats cheered me up a little bit. wanted to go racing this year, but i think there might be too much major work to get done in time. when it was stuff like engine rebuild, suspension changes, etc which were all improvements, as opposed to repairs, i wasnt bothered about running the car not at optimum. but the rust is a safety thing and im not running the car unless its immaculate in terms of safety and strength. so my priorities have all just shifted!!

ah well, once its all repaired the car will be an entirely known entity, and should last for years if i do it all properly :D

Tommytank
29-12-2007, 17:10
looks bad, but count welding in instances (ie 3 small patches) rather than area (one big patch) so in that respect its not a great amount. At least the car still resembles the shape of an mr2: it can be saved!

Murf
29-12-2007, 17:12
Have to agree with Paul, thats just the standard area's where mk1's rust!
All 3 of the Mk1's ive had have rusted right above the front ARB mount, must be a water trap or something!!

leet
29-12-2007, 17:22
I live near to you Jim, in Tadley, 5 miles out of Basingstoke. Was the company who done the restore local to this area? It would be good to know who to stay away from. Good luck with sorting the rust out. I have seen much worse repaired than that so hopefully you'll get it restored back to its former glory

Gary Symons
29-12-2007, 17:23
Mine was worse than that, had to have some pretty major surgery to get it back on the road. If that is the worst of the rust on yours I think you should be fine.

Looks good in the jae pics, like the wheels :thumbsup:

Paff
29-12-2007, 17:25
Yep agree with the others, infact the sills look just like one of mine did before me and Owen repaired it so not all lost and I also had the rust by the Antiroll bar on my lastone but it was worse than that, infact the anti roll bar wasn't attached to the car anymore, still that was fixed as well

Dazzz
29-12-2007, 17:43
It could be repaired but i personally wouldn't bother.

I've restored all sorts of cars, MGB GT, roadster, midget, golf, capri, mini.

If you have the resources like paul woods or others then maybe, but the rust you can see is only the beginning.

You seem to be in the position i was. Take my advice and cut your losses.

Find a car with no rust and transplant everything. It's fun and at the end you'll have a car without a single rusty fixing, and it's all your own hard work.

Apparently it was a real pleasure to MOT my MR2, comments like this make it all the more worth while.

Only my advice though.

Or fill the holes with filler, paint it, mot it, then take it to the Nur and let her die respectfully.

Paff
29-12-2007, 17:49
Dazz, in all honesty its def not that bad. We sorted mine outside on Owens driveway, that car is far from scrap metal, besides where can you find a car with no rust, if you have a contact that can get them let me know.

Besides, the front wings just unbolt and new ones bolt on and the rest looks like its just a bit of plating which if Jim can weld/knows someone who can he's sorted there

Jim-SR
29-12-2007, 18:29
i work in the motorsport industry and have access to 2 workshops short term (cant keep a car there more than a weekend tho, which is the problem), and should have my own sorted out in the next month or 3 (pending finances). once i get a workshop im getting a TIG welder, i can TIG to a sensible standard, good enough for sheet steel bodywork, but not well enough for suspension components for example. so in theory i could sort that bodywork myself, but i havent done it before

so i probably wont do the welding myself, ive got a friend who has his own company who is an awesome fabricator, and he will owe me a favour in a couple of weeks, so il probably get him to have a look at it. il do as much of the prep work as i can, and then let him fabricate the sheetmetal and weld it all up. he might prefer to make his own metal plates as opposed to using Escort sills, il see what he thinks

if i wanted to go and buy a mint car then id probably have to shell out the better part of 2 grand though. and even then theres no guarantees that rust wont come through. this car is being built into a race car (of sorts, more of a hardcore trackday and sprint car) though, so im reluctant to take a supposedly mint shell and then potentially stack it first time out! id rather go over this one with a fine tooth comb (now that im reassured that its not as bad as it looks, and is repairable) and make it mint for minimal expense (welding will basically cost me whatever the filler rod costs, and sheet metal. e.g. sod all), and then il know im driving a shell with perfect integrity, which will be reassuring on 100mph corners :)

thanks for the boost though guys, when i started poking my screwdriver around my heart properly sunk, and then i started thinking maybe it was beyond repair. but now im still kinda gutted that theres this much work to do, but there will definitely be a silver lining as i should end up with a mint shell :D

Jim-SR
29-12-2007, 18:33
I live near to you Jim, in Tadley, 5 miles out of Basingstoke. Was the company who done the restore local to this area? It would be good to know who to stay away from. Good luck with sorting the rust out. I have seen much worse repaired than that so hopefully you'll get it restored back to its former glory

it was done by a place in Cardiff, the previous owner had it done when he was living in Wales at uni. i havent used any garages round here, my dads a mechanic, and im sort of a mechanic, more of an engineer. so work tends to get done on the driveway lol. if only one of us could MIG weld!!

leet
29-12-2007, 19:11
it was done by a place in Cardiff, the previous owner had it done when he was living in Wales at uni. i havent used any garages round here, my dads a mechanic, and im sort of a mechanic, more of an engineer. so work tends to get done on the driveway lol. if only one of us could MIG weld!!
MIG is very easy with practise. I do all my own mechanical work too but i leave bodywork/paint to the professionals.

adamh
29-12-2007, 20:56
hi jim, thats not much to worry about there just some small restoration to complete, use high zinc primer over the repairs and POR15 where you can. them sill panels are available from JDG panels in scarborough , very reasonably priced shaped panels ready to weld on with some pre-cutting and rust treating etc, than some cosmetic sanding + finishing over the top they are very good. have a quick look:

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/06/121.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2006/06/121.jpg

i think i paid about 30 quid or so dont quote me its a while back, how about that, pre-made to suit this common repair :thumbsup:. heres mine fitted with some simple cosmetic over the top.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/05/37.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/05/119.jpg



the small rot at the front of ths ills is nowt to worry about jim, patch in smal pieces of metal until its reconstructed, use high zinc primer and por 15 where you can.

Whore of Babylon
29-12-2007, 22:28
Its a crime you guys have to drive on salted roads. come down to Aus were cars last forever :P

Jim-SR
29-12-2007, 22:30
i wanted to add metal arch extensions similar to yours anyway adam, so it will be easy to add those at the same time (hardest part will be forming the shapes lol), and kill 2 birds with one stone.

il give JDG panels a ring after new year, i thought their replacements were more like £70, but that might include the arches and stuff as well? il take care of the arches myself as i want them wider than standard, and i want to make some aero additions anyway which i was planning

jimi
29-12-2007, 22:32
Repair it Jim :thumbsup: you could spend much more time, effort and money trying to find a good one. Once it's done you'll know exactly what you have.
This was mine earlier this year
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/12/206.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/12/207.jpg

And after fitting the JDG panels
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/12/208.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/12/209.jpg

Paff
29-12-2007, 22:33
Its a crime you guys have to drive on salted roads. come down to Aus were cars last forever :P

Wish I could mate

Paff
29-12-2007, 22:35
Oh and Jimi, bollocks is that your car. It doesn't know how to look that rusty/dirty :)

jimi
29-12-2007, 22:41
Pic's were a couple of months before JAE, was back to normal for JAE :thumbsup:

Paff
29-12-2007, 22:45
Just hope one day I can get mine to the same standard yours is.

Ok some of the panels might not be able to rust but the ones that can will be fixed up right :)

snowtigger
29-12-2007, 22:46
ive seen worse rusty falling to bits minis and shed scorts and granadas and my sd1 was rusting just looking at it bah thats nowt dude get crackin cut it back to good metal and get som one to replace the rotten bits take pics then if u ever sell it u can show all the hard work thats gone in to it.

adamh
30-12-2007, 00:27
i wanted to add metal arch extensions similar to yours anyway adam, so it will be easy to add those at the same time (hardest part will be forming the shapes lol), and kill 2 birds with one stone.

il give JDG panels a ring after new year, i thought their replacements were more like £70, but that might include the arches and stuff as well? il take care of the arches myself as i want them wider than standard, and i want to make some aero additions anyway which i was planning


i have just had a look back in the build cost jim, that particular panel was £40 :thumbsup: . i think front/ top / and rear is £70 total all in etc. for the repairs at the front of the wings and other constructive metal work 1.2mm sheet metal is good and very peenable / bendable (18 gauge) or perhaps even 1mm is fine, where stronger joins are needed perhaps under the sills as opposed to cosmetic panel use 16 gauge for strength (1.5mm) sheet. pop into a sheet metal place and they will no doubt have hundreds of off cuts for good money. u-pol high zinc 'weld thru' primer is a good primer you apply to both car and new metal piece, then clamp and weld through.

jasper
30-12-2007, 01:06
Jim, don't buy the JDG panels from the Mk1 Club as they add a mark up. He sells them privately now on ebay cos he got pissed with them. You can buy the full monty or just one panel.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-MR2-MK1-REAR-WHEEL-ARCH-REPAIR-PANELS_W0QQitemZ230207854082QQihZ013QQcategoryZ104 28QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Extract from his add:

HI THERE,THESE PANELS HAVE BEEN AVAILABLE ON THE MR2 CLUB SITES FOR A FEW YEARS NOW.IF U WANT TO BUY THEM THIS WAY YOU ARE QUITE WELCOME AS THE PANELS COME FROM ME ANYWAY.IF YOU WANT TO MAKE A CONSIDERABLE SAVING ON THESE PRICES READ ON.I CAN DO YOU A REAR CORNER FOR £30,A SILL CONECTOR FOR £30, A WHEEL ARCH FOR £45 AND THE SILLS ARE £30 ALSO.THIS WILL SAVE YOU £140 IF YOU BUY A COMPLETE SET FOR BOTH SIDES.THE BUY IT NOW PRICE IS FOR A SIX PIECE SET(THREE EACH SIDE)NOT INCLUDING THE SILLS,I WILL SELL YOU ONE REAR CORNER PIECE OR WHATEVER YOU WANT AND WILL CHARGE POSTAGE ACCORDINGLY.YOU CAN MAIL ME OR JUST GIVE ME A RING ON 07815287018 AND I WILL QUOTE YOU ON WHAT YOU WANT.I WILL POST WORLDWIDE,THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM.THANKS FOR LOOKING.STEVE

jasper
30-12-2007, 01:10
And just for comparison, the prices on the Mk1 Club site:

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/panels.html

lodgeman
30-12-2007, 08:34
jinksy sells them as well -get a price from him as well !

http://forums.twobrutal.com/member.php?u=28

Jim-SR
30-12-2007, 11:43
i think il probably get away with just the sill return panels, which would probably be about £65-70 delivered. not too bad and would probably save some work. il speak to the fabricator later and see what he thinks will be easiest for him to do.

is the best way to weld on those replacement panels to cut the rust out slightly shy of the panel size and then weld it with a slight overlap, followed by grinding it back and using small amounts of filler to blend it all in? im guessing its probably quite tricky to weld it together as 2 edges, plus getting the shape cut out perfectly is probably equally tricky lol

cheers for the links guys, il contact the ebay seller and jinxy and see what their prices will be :)

adamh
30-12-2007, 13:40
you'll be underlapping panels jim, cut the rot right out, grind back to bare metal. you wont be abled to weld to rust which is why you may need to construct areas with little pieces. make sure you UNDERLAP, some 15mm. The steps must run downward to the ground i.e, put your new panel behind the existing car panel and spot weld like that, when running your finger down the car it shouldnt come across any resistance, its easier to blend downwards at the cosmetic stage.

another way may be to punch holes in existing panel put your new one behind, clamp panels tight together, then spot them both together through the punched hole, its easy to then grind the weld spot flush to panel

podge
30-12-2007, 14:48
or you could cut the panel out just shy of the new piece hold the new piece in place draw around it then cut to that should be a perfect fit hold it place with magnets on the surface and clamps on the bottom then spot in place then seam weld it up grind off the excess then its a small rub of filler prep and paint

Jiff Lemon
31-12-2007, 10:40
Find a car with no rust and transplant everything. It's fun and at the end you'll have a car without a single rusty fixing, and it's all your own hard work.

However, back in the real world, we'd repair it. Find a Mk1 with no rust? Can you also tell me who killed Kennedy, next weeks winning lottery numbers and the whereabouts of Lord Lucan? rotflmao

Paul Woods
31-12-2007, 15:42
actually you know that mk1 v6 we just built for richard jiff? that thing didnt have a spot of rust underneath it,absolutely immaculate chassis and floors....all it had was a little rear arch scabs,but its the best mk1 ive ever seen underneath so they do exist albeit a little rare! jammy sod only paid £300 for the car too...

spudgun
31-12-2007, 16:24
Unlucky Jim, but it happens to us all sooner or later. Its a shock to start with but once you get over it, it never shocks you as hard again.

I did some similar repair work on mine last year and took a few pics as I went and posted up a topic about it. Sorry to be a bore guys, but heres a link to it.

http://forums.twobrutal.com/showthread.php?t=6787

If you have the tools welding stuff up is one of the cheapest repairs you can do yourself, but it does take a while.

Jim-SR
01-01-2008, 16:44
id seen your pictures of those repairs before spud, i guess its never as bad as it looks, its just the initial shock of giant holes in something youve driven round corners at a 3-figure mph speed :lol:

underlapping sounds like it could be interesting, getting a large piece of metal into a much smaller hole! il have to see how much metal comes out getting it all back to clean metal. ive got some supplies to make a temporary "stabilisation" repair, e.g. take it all back to clean metal, treat the rust, and get a load of primer on there to stop is from worsening until i can collar my friend to have a look at repairing it.

i dont think im going to let this stop me from continuing elsewhere on the car in the meantime, it seems stupid halting my progress for something which is ultimately looking like a fairly simple (but time consuming, and for someone skilled) repair :)

Dazzz
01-01-2008, 16:48
However, back in the real world, we'd repair it. Find a Mk1 with no rust? Can you also tell me who killed Kennedy, next weeks winning lottery numbers and the whereabouts of Lord Lucan? rotflmao

LOL mine had no rust on the chassis, everything was a dream to remove and replace. Usual repairs but no real rot.

I've seen lots of good examples to be restored. come and see mine. I'll be buying a T bar in the summer in immaculate condition for £700. Full toyota service history, 2 owners from new, last owner for past 15 years, 62K on the clock, always kept in a garage, the original bumper bar is like new. Leather interior looks like a dog has lived in there though.

Jim there are lots of cars out there, dont make the mistake i once made. Two years down the line you may have a pile of junk. If the car has ever lived near the coast do not buy.

Build a kit car if you want performance, same cost more or less.

Hayabusa engine in a car weighing 500 Kgs is the way forward. 11,000 rpm round a corner feels so nice. choice of almost any aftermarket parts. possibilities are endless.

Buy a normal car for the road, as long as it dooes 30 mph and 70 mph you will be fine.