My testresults 3S-GE vs. 3VZ-FE and videos

[hot-chili]

To make a complete overview about the new 3VZ-FE I make many tests. Some only for me some for our technical car tests to get a law paper to be allowed to drive on german streets.

!!!Please, this test results are only correct for my car with my setup, my wheels and my drive style!!!
It is only to show the direct difference between the engines at same car!

Bevor I have a 3S-GE Engine with original 175hp from 1994. I tune him to 179hp at 7467upm and 177Nm at 6913Nm here is the dyno video:
http://www.mein-mr2.de/Filme/3S-GE%20Leistungsmessung.wmv

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Then I drive many test to find out how big is the differnce between the both engines. (now all in miles!!)
3S-GE:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/11/147.jpg

3VZ-FE:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/11/148.jpg


Speed / Gear / 3S-GE / 3VZ-FE / change %

13-38miles/h 2 5,1s 3,2s + 59%

19-38miles/h 3 6s 3,5s + 71%

19-63miles/h 3 12s 7,7s + 56%

25-44miles/h 4 7,3s 4,8s + 52%

25-44miles/h 5 11,9s 5,9s + 102%

38-63miles/h 3 7,2s 4,6s + 57%

38-63miles/h 4 10,3s 6,4s + 61%

38-63miles/h 5 14,6s 9,7s + 51%

50-75miles/h 3 7,1s 4,9s + 45%

50-75miles/h 4 9,9s 6,5s + 52%

50-75miles/h 5 14,2s 8,4s + 69%

0-63miles/h 1-2 9,9s 7,4s + 34%

My MR2 is now in elasticity between 45 to 102% faster then my old with 3S-GE engine.
My speed up will be 34% better.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then I must make more test, I drive to a big car weighbridge to get a law paper. Both engine use the S54 gearbox.

Bevor I test with my 3S-GE:
Front axle: 525kg = 1166lbs = 42,34%
Rear axle: 715kg = 1588lbs = 57,66%

Testresult with 3VZ-FE engine:
Front axle: 530kg = 1177lbs = 41,73%
Rear axle: 740kg = 1644lbs = 58,27%

You see, the 3VZ-FE engine is only 30kg = 67lbs bigger then the 3S-GE and the differnce between front and rear change only around 0,5%.
I weight all engine parts myself and my difference between 3S-GE and 3VZ-FE will be 35kg = 78lbs this resukt is very exact.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Then I make the dyno run again now with the 3VZ-FE:
Video:
http://www.mein-mr2.de/Filme/3VZ-FE%20Leistungsmessung.wmv

I only make some head porting work, build a new Y-pipe and use the original airbox. And get 210hp at 6548rpm and 243Nm = 179lb/ft at 5572rpm.

Testresult with both engines, red is the 3S-GE black is the 3VZ-FE.
Power is german DIN Power at kw (kw x 1,36 = hp) torque is Nm (devide Nm through 1,36 and you get ft/lbs) left scale is power, right scale is torque

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/11/149.jpg

I only make some head porting work, build a new Y-pipe and use the original airbox. And get 210hp at 6548rpm and 243Nm = 179lb/ft at 5572rpm.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here you can see come drive videos with my car, there is some background noise from the cam, this is not from the car. Videos are between 4-27MB.

First start:
http://www.mein-mr2.de/Filme/Anlassen.wmv

Overtake a Chrysler Crossfire:
http://www.mein-mr2.de/Filme/Crossfire.wmv

Through old village with 5gear at 20miles
http://www.mein-mr2.de/Filme/130-30-130_im5Gang.wmv

up to 7000upm and some curves:
http://www.mein-mr2.de/Filme/Have_Fun%201.wmv

curves:
http://www.mein-mr2.de/Filme/Have_Fun%202.wmv

with open windows on village main road:
http://www.mein-mr2.de/Filme/Scheiben_unten.wmv

Getting home 5gear steep uphill:
http://www.mein-mr2.de/Filme/30erZone_5Gang_Bergauf.wmv

Here is it:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/11/46.jpg

Now I´am very happy, the 3VZ-FE engine is great.
But I have some trouble to get the very important law paper here in germany. Next year they will no longer allow other engines in any car which was not sold by the producer in germany! :shocked:
Then it will be unpossible to change any engine here in germany.

[Shorty]

If i`m reading this right, that is huge improvments!:) Looks very good that engine bay too!!!!!!


But I have some trouble to get the very important law paper here in germany. Next year they will no longer allow other engines in any car which was not sold by the producer in germany! :shocked:
Then it will be unpossible to change any engine here in germany.

Norway has this too. I`m fucked. I can only run tracks and such shite!! Stupid laws destroying our hobbies!

[Garbe]

This is what we've been waiting for - some pre and post swap results - Well done that man:thumbsup:

[GaryA]

Yeah thats fantastic , well done :thumbsup:

[Sponge Bob]

Wow - excellently detailed information!!

Pure porn for us car geeks!! :thumbsup:

[Garbe]

What windscreen wipers do you have installed?

[biteme]

Superb results there mate, really really good :)

[welsha]

awesome details, thanks for posting

[millentubby]

Although it is a good indication I have to say it's not a completely fair comparison do to the 12 degree difference in ambient temp. This will slightly inflate the V6 figures. (but not enough to save the 3S-GE from a right old trouncing lol )

But.........the amount of information is amazing. It would be awesome to have full data sets like this for the 4AGE, mk1v6, mk1.5, mk2tubby..........list goes on.

Build looks great hot_chili - well done and thanks for the info!

[Paul Woods]

sticky'd..... thats the best post ive read in a long long time on TB,do you mind if i use those results when people ask me for performance information?

truly outstanding work mate :thumbsup:

[Zip]

I miss read it for MPH since thats what you lot on here like to talk in.

I was just about jumping up and down until i saw kph which calmed me down a little :P

[hot-chili]

Thanks, it was some work to do it.

@ Zip
I´am sorry we use metric system...but EU will bring it to GB in the future too. *smile*

@ Shorty
Yes, we get every week here more trouble to tune cars...it is no more fun!

@ Garbe this are wipers from VW Polo/Golf4 with my selfmade sepcial part, but I sell this no longer, there are new Bosch aftermarket wipers you can perhaps use in later MR2 with the new wiperarms.
Take a look here the upper are the new Bosch aftermarket wipers:
http://www.mein-mr2.de/Bilder/MR2/Boschwischer/Wischer5.jpg

@ millentubby
Yes I know but 12°C are only 3-4% mor horsepower. I can not test under labor options and I must take the weather like it is. The dynorun was at same temperature.

@ Paul Woods
Take all you need.

I will make next year more tests with 5S-FE, 3S-GE and 3S-GTE on dyno and the elasticity test we will make with a 300hp 3S-GTE too.

My fuelcut is at 7200rpm so I can not reach my highspeed at highway, my engine stops at 240km/h = 150miles/h.


Stay tuned, I make an update of my results tomorrow.

[lodgeman]

excellent write up:thumbsup: and good to see the balance is only altered by.5%

[OlberJ]

Excellent work sir :clap: Just excellent.

Hope to see and hear plenty more of this car. It's a credit to you.

[Zip]

Thanks, it was some work to do it.

@ Zip
I´am sorry we use metric system...but EU will bring it to GB in the future too. *smile*




No dont say Sorry, Us Australians use it too, The UK is just behind in timerotflmao

I am just used to reading imperial on here and got confused, But its all good :)

[weegaz22]

will be interested to see the 3sgte results when you do them:driving:

[Garbe]

Thanks for the info Chilli

One more thing can you post some pics of your exhaust Y pipe

thanks

[Paul Woods]

chili its been brought to my attention that the last 0-100 figures cant be correct.... because a rev3 na goes a lot quicker from 0-100kmh (0-60mph) than 10 seconds,can you tell me which gear or gears that run was made? the rest of the results look right apart from that one,cheers mate

[biteme]

thats more of a 3sfe time isn't it?

[Garbe]

Paul - it shows gears 1+2 were used

[Paul Woods]

ah yes below the chart i see that now cheers hasad.... but if 1st and 2nd were used that means 10 seconds 0-60mph is way slow for a rev3 na..... should be nearer 7 secs surely?

[biteme]

Isn't Gang the gear and Lauf the run number? i.e. for the 20-60 run in 2nd gear, the first run was 4.9 and 5.6 in the first two runs.

Then average in German is Durchschnitt - i.e. Durchs.

[Paul Woods]

yes thats the way i read it,below the chart hasad has spotted it says gears 1+2 for the 0-100kmh runs (0-60mph).... which average out at 9.9 secs,cant possibly be that slow for a rev3na?

[biteme]

I agree mate.

Was it deffo a 3SGE and not a 3SFE? Coz they sure look like 3SFE times for the 0-60.

It's too slow for a proper 0-60 and too bleeding quick for a proper 0-100.

If they did it in 2nd gear only, then that's believeable, but it doesn't say.

[Paul Woods]

maybe chili will clarify when he comes on next

[weegaz22]

its a 94, didnt the 3sfe only come in the 1st versions of the mk2?

[biteme]

probably yea .. just trying to throw some ideas around really mate :)

that 0-100 is the only one that doesn't add up ...

[weegaz22]

lots of variables though johnny, cant see the dyno operator launching like you would at the strip

the torque and rpm on the 3sge isnt crossing over at 5250rpm either, if its 0-100km then its 0-62mph, i know its only 2mph but every little makes a difference

[biteme]

Yep. I know what you mean, he's gonna drive it off idle with no launch, or at least one to mention!

You might have cracked it there Gaz. Rolling off the clutch then just going from there....

[3VZ-FE]

the torque and rpm on the 3sge isnt crossing over at 5250rpm either, if its 0-100km then its 0-62mph, i know its only 2mph but every little makes a difference

The torque/power curves crosses at 5250 when hp meets lb/ft at the same y-axes. Here you have 2 y-axes, kW/power on the left and Nm/torque on the right side, the curve's crossing is random and means nothing. :)

[weegaz22]

The torque/power curves crosses at 5250 when hp meets lb/ft at the same y-axes. Here you have 2 y-axes, kW/power on the left and Nm/torque on the right side, the curve's crossing is random and means nothing. :)


Ahh, my mistake, also it would be 9549rpm used to work out calcs and not 5252rpm due to it being kw and nm instead of bhp and ft/lbs

[hot-chili]

My car is a 1991 with a1994 175hp 3S-GE.

Yes my 0-100km/h test results are not able to put them to other cars.
We have now this discusion in germany too.
The Toyota testresult is around 8 seconds, car magazines test the MR2 between 8 and 9,3seconds. Some drivers in germany get 7,5s with small tyres.
My car use big 18" rims and I test with full tank.
The I have a problem with my gearbox, if I shift from 1 to 2 gear I must wait a half second for shifting and I start very moderate wiht only 2000rpm.

But I test the 3VZ-FE under same conditions! That why 9,9s for 3S-GE and 7,4s for 3VZ-Fe are good times to see the different.
I think a good driver will get around 6 to 6,5s with the 3VZ-FE.

Correct, 0-100km/h are the same like 0-62,5 miles and I test the real speed with GPS not with the tach!

Now I correct my testresults to miles.

[Zip]

Now I correct my testresults to miles.


No dont, Miles is incorrect.

I like Kilometers:thumbsup:

[hot-chili]

All metric dates you can find in our german forum:
www.mr2forum.de
or ask me.

[hot-chili]

I will show you a new dynorun map.

red and black are my old and green is a friend with his tuned 3S-GTE with 1.45bar pressure on the turbo, it´s very powerfull. He has double hp like my 3VZ-FE! ;)
What is very intersting, up to 3000rpm turbo and V6 are the same power output.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/09/35.jpg

We make a very big dynorun at 27.09.2008 here in germany with around 15 different MR2. I will show you the results later.

[hot-chili]

Her my new V6 dyno run:

Attention:
- I use not rpm for the x-scale, I use km/h (1km/h = 0,60 miles/h) because we get not exact rpm output and the km/h are very exact.
- I use in all diagrams kw not hp (1kw = 1,36 hp)
- I use in all diagrams Nm not lbs/ft (1Nm = 0,73756 lbs/ft)
- All diagrams in german DIN engine hp not wheel hp
- To get rpm and not km/h you must multiple all 3S-GE/3VZ-FE km/h scale with 36 (60km/h * 36 = 2160rpm at 4 gear) This base on 225/35/18 or 235/40/17 wheels.


I test my V6 with different ignition timing, first run at normal 10° and second run at 15° ignition timing. I use very high 98 octane fuel for both runs.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/10/13.jpg
There was a very big surprise, I lost 9hp!!! with 15° ignition timing. It seems that the 3VZ-FE ignition control can not handle the earlier ignition timing.

Now my V6 against 170hp and 156hp 3S-GE:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/10/14.jpg

Now the finish result of all 5 engine types.
This result is realy special, because it compare 5 different engines at the road speed and not with rpm! So you can see better the real road result!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2008/10/18.jpg
You see that the V6 goes better then all other engines until 90km/h (55miles) if you use the short S54 tranny from the 3S-GE. Then the turbos run away to very high power output.



I have a big mistake at my V6 torque diagram.

I have a big problem with my rpm tach. It shows not the correct rpm and the dyno station think that I drive a higher rotation as it realy is.
I change the back plate of the tach into the V6 plate but it is not correct.

At my last dyno run fuel cut was at 8500rpm!!! But real it is at 6800upm.
Now the dyno station correct the torque after kw x 6550 / rpm.

Thats why I get wrong torque diagram.
I think my torques must be around 260Nm (191ft/lbs) not 228Nm.

Now I must wait to my next dyno run to test the correct torque.

[hot-chili]

Video from my last V6 dyno run:
http://www.mein-mr2.de/Filme/SLS/hot-chili-2.MPG

[hot-chili]

Now I correct my wrong V6 diagrams. I make a rpm correction about my wheels and the 4 gear with 4,05

Here now my old V6 torque (black pointed) and new Nm curve (yellow pointed) at the power KW curve (big black) change nothing.
The bottom scale is km/h (1,6 km/h = 1miles) not rpm.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/02/45.jpg

My V6 has now 153,3KW= 208,5PS at 162,5km/h (102miles) at 4 gear, this are 5850rpm and 287Nm at 125km/h (78miles) at 4 gear, this are 4500rpm

Here are all curves of 5 german engines, 3S-GE with 156PS, 3S-GE with 170PS, my V6, 3S-GTE GEN3 at 1bar and GEN3 Turbo at 1,4bar.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/02/46.jpg

Good to see, that the V6 is better then the turbos until 90km/h or 3200rpm and that the V6 has 50-60% more torque then the 3S-GE.

[Sparky]

Lovely work there.

V6 has most torque of all engines up to 90kph, and has boat loads more at lower cruising speeds around town of 60kph. Sound very nice.

[synXero]

0-63 9.9s in a 3S-GE? Isn't that MUCH slower than it should be?? Or am I misreading?

edit.
Regarding the first post on the first page information only.