View Full Version : Lyndon's V6 - I don't do conventional - Oh No!
Based on the 3VZ-FE block and heads 89mm bore, 74.4mm stroke, (2780cc), 8.25:1 C/R & 2.01:1 Rod ratio.
Mark "Mr Turbo" Kitchen Billet B4040 hybrid nitride ceramic roller bearing turbo rated at 850 fwhp @ 2.5 bar and turbo smart pro gate 48 external wastegate already in stock.
See's going to be a bit naughty :D
Lyndon.
loadswine
10-11-2007, 20:50
Souinds naughty already!:thumbsup:
Destroked it? Should enable a nice rpm rise and still be in safe operating range. :)
9K is the target.
I was reading your piece on Guy Crofts forum. How far have got with your head research as I'll be needing light weight top end components?
Lyndon.
Paul Woods
11-11-2007, 09:22
naughty indeed! will be following this one with interest,great to see more people pushing the boundaries,thats what we need :thumbsup:
The biggest problem is the bore center of the exhaust cam gear. 42.48mm doesn't leave much for a decent lobe size. I was rather hoping to get 12+mm lift and a 280+ duration. Look like I'm going to have to bore the gear centers up and get a new anti chatter spring made (Maybe the UZ-FE one is bigger ?). I can now see why Toyota put the gears on the front (UZ-FE) or back (MZ-FE) of the cams.
Lyndon.
Interesting, i'll be keeping en eye on this one... What car is it going into though? Mk1 or 2?
Methinks, by the look of the bit there next to his name Goldy, it's going in a mk2. :whistle:
You wont get 12mm lift on the exhausts no matter how high you try to lift them with the cam.
Unfortunately the head will need some attention to the spring platforms to sink them, and the valve guides will either foul on the valve caps or the springs go coil bound at 9mm lift.
Definitely a benefit from lifting the exhausts tho i got over 20cfm extra by lifting the exhausts (with some special soft springs for testing) by lifting to 10mm on the exhausts from 8mm stock lift.
If you can get the machinework done you should see some large improvements.
On the subject of Valves and Springs. I know the valve head sizes and lengths, can anyone tell me the tip heights?
Lyndon.
Measured from the spring platform i take it? Wont they all be different due to wear differences or are you just after a rough idea? :hmm:
I think the tip height is measured from the collets/keepers to the tip (Bucket/Shim contact point). About 3.5mm on the 7M-GTE as an example. You may know this by another terminology.
Lyndon.
I actually measured one against a 3S-GTE one and they seem share the same tip height but different total lengths. However, the 29mm 3S exhaust valve dropped straight in so I've found a 28.5mm one that will suit the 2mm BC deduction.
I've also found a 35.75mm one for the inlet that should fit within the same parameters. 3S-GTE springs and retainers are also suitable with the spring seat machined to suit the increase in diameter as the have an open length of an extra 2mm. We already use springs that handle 12.7mm lift on the 3S so guide heights aside (as I will get Arrow to make these to suit the narrower stems), it's Game on. They also happen to put the tip height into the range suitable for the 1ZZ shimless buckets, which is a brucey bonus ;)
Lyndon.
splintermcinnes
12-11-2007, 23:29
this is some complex shit you guys are on about but it sounds awsome and should be a real beast! more techy info and pics needed i think, help us understand some of this terminology!! superb work guys. :thumbsup:
My JE Forged pistons arrived today. I can now get all my block machining done.:jump:
When the Eagle rods arrive I can make a start on getting the crank work done and fitting and clearancing the oil squirters.
After some sums, mean piston speed should be about 24.83 m/s @ 10k which is well within tollerance for a engine build of this kind. The 6" rods deduce acceleration (decreasing loads and stress on the wrist pins and bearings) and increase dwell about TDC which means you have to rethink ignition advance when mapping as the maximum leavage point of the rod and crank is later in the cycle.
As an aside, 3VZ and 5VZ (which commetic make) head gaskets look virtually the same. The extra bore in the 5VZ can, quite handly be used as a register to hold a cooper sealer ring in place :thumbsup:
Lyndon.
I remember Roland Hayes at HT racing having a tool that cut those sort of grooves. Actually making your own is impressive, are you a Kiwi and do you have a shed :D
I'm actually getting Mike Tanski to make my HG's out of copper as I need a precise thickness. I'll be using some of his block wiring and employing the reciever groove to deform the copper into for a perfect seal. The only downside is the gasket is destoyed when the head is removed.
Lyndon.
Eagle ESP rods and 6G72 stud kit arrived this morning. I can comfirm the main studs work as main studs (nice one FourVee Six). Block, cradle, mains and pistons are off to the machines for align hone and boring tomorrow.
The small ends of the rod and piston cleared and the wrist pin was a perfect fit for the rod (sometime there can be a few thou difference as to what side of 22mm they factor on) but not in this case. :thumbsup:
Crank next, Knife edged, wedged, destroked (2.5mm), nitrided, lightened and rebalanced to suit my rods and pistons, better start saving as this will be at least £500 worth.:icon_eek:
Lyndon.
I was just looking though the icons for a eek style and a came across this:
:woc:
I think some wee came out :D
Be interesting to see what the spool is like on this turbo ... should be pretty manic when it kicks in :thumbsup:
Be interesting to see what the spool is like on this turbo ... should be pretty manic when it kicks in :thumbsup:
On my 7M-GTE it made a cadbury's by 4600rpm and that was with stock cams, mild porting on the head and stock valve sizes. It made 515 bhp and 495lbs/ft at the hubs.
Here is the Boost graph from the 7M-GTE :
http://www.nod-land.co.uk/assets/images/boost.jpg
I'm expecting it to spool about the same on the VZ. The lack of stroke and volume should be compensated for by valve area, cam profile, better head work and proper equal length tubular exhaust headers (Oh! and the extra 3000 rpm rev band :D )
Lyndon.
That's an amazing boost curve - very smooth.
How does that turbo compare to a GT4088R? I'd kinda set myself on that one for my build - but it's the only thing left for me to buy now, so I'm not sure now!
Typical. I've been recommended Borg Warners, Garretts's - and after seeing that, I do like.
Any literature on it?
That's an amazing boost curve - very smooth.
How does that turbo compare to a GT4088R? I'd kinda set myself on that one for my build - but it's the only thing left for me to buy now, so I'm not sure now!
Typical. I've been recommended Borg Warners, Garretts's - and after seeing that, I do like.
Any literature on it?
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_2985/article.html
http://www.cerbec.com/HybridBearing/Hybrid.asp
Mark Kitchen is a close friend of an Auzzie mate of mine in who lives on the gold coast. I can get probably get you one if you really want one.
Lyndon
They do look the nuts ... Superb.
What one would you recommend for a GT4088R style spool - and roughly what price?
They do look the nuts ... Superb.
What one would you recommend for a GT4088R style spool - and roughly what price?
Depend on your power goal. I'm aiming for about 850 to 900fwhp (on C16 race fuel). Mine cost about £950 shipped but then I got mates rates. Typically I would think about £1100-£1200. Phone Thor Racing and ask for a price for a Billet B4040 (which is what my turbo was based on) and that should give you a worst case senario ;)
Lyndon.
Heh ... just looked them up - the prices are very very similar, around £1200.
This project is just getting crazy now lol. I stopped counting at 10k
Heh ... just looked them up - the prices are very very similar, around £1200.
This project is just getting crazy now lol. I stopped counting at 10k
Crikey! how have you managed to spend that much money?
I keep eyeing up Matt's M90 sat doing nowt. Twin charging might improve the low end boost response.
Lyndon.
That's more than engine - it's the cost of the kit, wheels, brakes etc.
But it's growing, growing, growing :)
Had an interesting talk with Mike at Ferriday today. I at least now know the Head Gasket strategy I will be employ to contain 2.5bar of boost.
He is no stranger to the 3VZ as he has drawings and has made a copper head gasket for someone already, anyone on here?
Lyndon.
lodgeman
04-12-2007, 07:00
tony had a few sets made up, maybe its him? i think he may have some left over:thumbsup:
http://forums.twobrutal.com/showthread.php?t=9623
I forgot, the blocks been bored and honed to suit the 89mm forged pistons. The block was main align checked and found to be spot on, woo hoo!.
My next task is getting Farndon to do their crank magic. Knife edging and wedging as well as a 5mm destroke offset grind on the big ends and a final nitride and polish to size. I fucked up my math and forgot that although I have a 5mm reduction in stroke, the big end centres only move 2.5mm which leaves the piston 2.7mm out the deck. Fortunately the bowl in the piston is -27.1cc so a 2mm crop off the piston crown and a reprofile of the bowl leaves me about -23cc, 0.8mm quench and perfect CR of about 8.3:1 and still manages to keep the ring pack low enough (5mm from top ring) that there will be no risk of flutter or twist over (They are 1.2mm barrel face rings anyway so I doubt they will have an issue even at 2.5bar).
When the crank is done we can fit the pistons and rods, do some deck measuring and finalise the piston machining required.
Head gasket is going to be a 1.6mm copper with block side sealing wire ring grooves and o-rings. There is a small saving grace in the race bearings for the big end in that they have a 1.0mm oversize which means we can scoff another 1.0mm of stroke off and 0.5mm down bore height. All this and a still have my magic rod ratio of 2+:1 :thumbsup:
Looking at the counter weight clearance to the block centre (i.e the oil main gallery) means squirters is going to be interesting. I think the counter weights are going to be shaved down some what. As the stroke has been reduced quite a lot I don't thing skirt interfereance is going to be an issue.
Lyndon.
This is going to be amazing.
2.5bar boost is sure gonna be a real kick in the nuts!
This is going to be amazing.
2.5bar boost is sure gonna be a real kick in the nuts!
Another night owl :D
We run 2.5bar on Andrew's car when running C16 fuel. Although I did get to run it to 2.3bar on V-power and it seemed happy enough.
I believe Adrian ran 2.7 bar on his engine the crazy fool :D
Lyndon.
Is the turbo still in the sweet spot at that PR?
Is the turbo still in the sweet spot at that PR?
The Garrett GT35R's seem happy at these pressures. I only ever ran my Billet upto 1.5bar on the Supra, but apparently it's rated to 3bar so hopefully 2.5bar should be the sweet spot.
Having said all this, if the engine makes the power target at less boost then I'll run that instead, after all, it's the heads that makes the power and my heads will be quite different to the usual port and polish.
Lyndon.
Fair play :)
Care to share? :)
Another project that went no where *sigh*
True be told, I bought everything and made a mahoosive cock up on the re stroke calculation which meant the 300ZX rods didn't work (well not without machining 2mm off the piston crowns). I also got given a box of 1mz parts and managed to find enough scrap around Rogues workshop to put the thing back together for about £400 spent which was the price of the 3VZ-FE Toyota Manual flywheel and dowels, TRD NA diff and 0.73:1 5 gear parts.
The turbo and waste gate went as a part payment towards my Skyline R33 V-Spec and I sold the engine and pistons to a chap on here.
Lyndon.
Shameshameshame.. This was really the project that would have made headlines. 9000rpm limit on a 3vz-fe would have been awesome, fok the s2000 :)
Ah well, on to the next one!
Barronmr
04-03-2010, 16:21
I sold the engine and pistons to a chap on here.
Me, lol. Still haven't built it :(. Got an m90 charger for it though and lots of other goodies ready. This year it will be built.
Staying with stock rods keeping the rev limit sensible, m90 will make boost from idle anyways.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.