power to weight

[nik]

apologies folks..the original post got delted but i found a cached version on google..its old news but wanted to front page to link to something..

Was having another browse through the TB Pic Gallery earlier and when looking at the stats of Nik's car, it got me thinking a bit more about comparisons with other tastey machines.

Here's Nik's stats followed by some well known examples from the same era as the MK1 and some more recent.

1987 Nik's rev3 sleeper
Kerb weight: 1140kg
Approx output: 290.0 bhp
Power to weight:254.38 bhp/ton(metric)

1984 Ferrari Testarossa
Kerb weight: 1506 kg
Max output: 385.0 bhp
Power to weight:255.64 bhp/ton(metric)

1989 Ferrari 348tb
Kerb weight: 1390 kg
Max. output: 295.0 bhp
Power to weight:212.23 bhp/ton(metric)

1999 Ferrari 360 Modena
Kerb weight: 1390 kg
Max. output: 394.0 bhp
Power to weight:283.45 bhp/ton(metric)

1987 Porsche 911 Carrera Clubsport
Kerb weight: 1172 kg
Max. output: 231.0 bhp
Power to weight:197.1 bhp/ton(metric)

1999 Porsche 911 GT3
Kerb weight: 1350 kg
Max. output: 360.0 bhp
Power to weight:266.67 bhp/ton(metric)

2004 Porsche 911 Carrera S
Kerb weight: 1425 kg
Max. output: 350.0 bhp
Power to weight:245.61 bhp/ton(metric)

1987 Lotus Esprit Turbo
Kerb weight: 1384 kg
Max. output: 215.0 bhp
Power to weight:155.35 bhp/ton(metric)

1992 Lotus Esprit Sport 300
Kerb weight: 1187 kg
Max. output: 300.0 bhp
Power to weight:252.74 bhp/ton(metric)

2004 Lotus Elise 111R
Kerb weight: 860 kg
Max. output: 189.0 bhp
Power to weight:219.77 bhp/ton(metric)

I'd say the MK1.5 compares more than favourably:mrgreen: I got the stats from HERE
(http://www.globalcar.com/datasheet/T...4ToyotaMR2.htm)


nik
11-11-2005, 04:12
holy shit...good result..
i can comfortably say the elises ive met didnt stand a chance..havent had the joy of challenging any of those other beauties though..its a very humiliating swap..and if any of you need inspiration to get a swap going..its all there in b&w above..
power to weight is the key..
if anyones interested i havent done anything radical to reduce weight..just if i could take it off i did..apart from the dash board everything else was removed inside and out..a lot more savings can be had by replacing the doors but then youd need a cage so the benefits would be negligable at best..
stock seats replaced but only with cheapo cobras that still weigh some..
plus its a t-bar..not the lightest of versions..the carpets are suprisingly weighty..
be great to get it down to a 1000kg..\\:D/
great info mate..

you can knock another 75kg off that figure if you want the true curb weight..!
though i have no proof im putting out 290bhp..just a guesstimate from stock power running at around 18psi..

1987 Nik's rev3 sleeper
Kerb weight: 1065kg
Approx output: 290.0 bhp
Power to weight:272.30 bhp/ton(metric)
David Sleith
11-11-2005, 06:43
Having a fat burd sitting in the passenger seat might bugger up those figures!!!


superchargedsam
11-11-2005, 09:30
what a result as thats some serious result and having driven a testarossa on track for a few laps I can say its deffinatly a big old beast to drive and am sure niks would wee all over one on track and on the road which is saying something as that ferrari is an icon of supercardom !

1.5s rule the world and perhaps another good comparison on the above would have been cost as that would be a mind blowing comparison !


John
11-11-2005, 09:50
BHP per tonne per ? - no contest at all.

My plan for a 2zz would give say 200bhp with some mild tweaking, 950 kg for a guess (I'm assuming the engine will be about the same weight as a 4AGE), that's something like 210 bhp/tonne - respectable but not quite up there is it? But it'd be interesting if the lighter weight increases "chuckability" enough to make up for it.

The next stage might be to do as Lotus do in the Exige and supercharge it (or maybe turbo) to 250bhp or so. That would take it up to 263 bhp/tonne :-)

Mind you the weight may be a bit more as it's a Tbar - what are the correct figures?

On that note, the exige must be a similar weight to the Elise - 250bhp in 860kg gives 290bhp/tonne!


John
11-11-2005, 09:51
Having a fat burd sitting in the passenger seat might bugger up those figures!!!
Wouldn't do the suspension any favours either!


superchargedsam
11-11-2005, 09:57
John if your looking to supercharge it I may be able to get you a new eaton mini supercahrger quite cheap so let me know if you intend doing this and I will ask for you.


John
11-11-2005, 10:04
Thanks, I'll bear that in mind. Still a long way off though.


John
11-11-2005, 10:06
I've always wondered why modern cars have to be so lardy - given that the Elise has to pass the same safety tests as all the others.


nik
11-11-2005, 15:04
its probably cheaper to build fat heavy cars than develope strong light ones..steel has got to be way cheaper than aluminium to manufacture..
though i have to say i think our mk1s arent too bloaty considering how strong they are..


Shugsta
11-11-2005, 16:09
1.5s rule the world and perhaps another good comparison on the above would have been cost as that would be a mind blowing comparison !
Well since a few of you have mentioned it, here's a table including how much these cars would cost today. I think ?5k is a reasonable cost to put against a 1.5 although I know some have spent more and others less, I found the other car values on Parker's site and similar sources.

The "Value" column is a factor taken from the "BHP/TON" and the "Cost Today". The lower the number the more "value" you have. This may be a tad contrived, but I think it's a good illustration of the MK1.5's "Bang Per Buck".

http://www.mr2sc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/CarValue.jpg


superchargedsam
11-11-2005, 16:33
nice table fella and just shows how good a conversion this really is ! imagine it 60bhp more powerful with another 50 or so kilos lost mmm mmm mmm !


Paul Woods
11-11-2005, 17:46
nice table! no contest really!


Shugsta
11-11-2005, 18:48
imagine it 60bhp more powerful with another 50 or so kilos lost mmm mmm mmm !
This is spooky : As suggested above, 300 horses and 1ton = 300bhp/ton. Divide ?5000 by 300 and you get a perceived value of 16.666, Nik I'm sure this number will meet with your approval


adamh
11-11-2005, 21:04
some impresive stats :D


djdna2000
11-11-2005, 22:55
Good stuff. Is there a 'class' column though? We can beat all the GT3s and 360s we want but we'll never buy class :D

I've never been a big porsche fan but after getting a good look round a pair of GT3 RSs at the 'ring recently, I've changed my opinion. The GT3 RS is the purist driver's car, a real racer from the factory.


nik
12-11-2005, 06:57
This is spooky : As suggested above, 300 horses and 1ton = 300bhp/ton. Divide ?5000 by 300 and you get a perceived value of 16.666, Nik I'm sure this number will meet with your approval
:neutral: omg im a little worried about this..

it really is an amazing set of stats..and really shows how incredible a swap it is that we are doing...
the figures are great but lets consider the build quality of some of those cars plus the kudos and then factor in other bits like how long the peak power is held accross the range, track ability, etc etc etc..
the 1.5 is a true poor mans ferrari but it will never beat one in a straight vote..!
ive got my sensible gummage head on this morning..O:)


djdna2000
12-11-2005, 08:52
Build quality of Ferraris is shocking...
female`escort
05-08-2006, 11:26
Having a fat burd sitting in the passenger seat might bugger up those figures!!!
she flips one at ya


DJJAW11
05-08-2006, 23:52
holy shit...good result..
i can comfortably say the elises ive met didnt stand a chance..havent had the joy of challenging any of those other beauties though..its a very humiliating swap..and if any of you need inspiration to get a swap going..its all there in b&w above..
power to weight is the key..
if anyones interested i havent done anything radical to reduce weight..just if i could take it off i did..apart from the dash board everything else was removed inside and out..a lot more savings can be had by replacing the doors but then youd need a cage so the benefits would be negligable at best..
stock seats replaced but only with cheapo cobras that still weigh some..
plus its a t-bar..not the lightest of versions..the carpets are suprisingly weighty..
be great to get it down to a 1000kg..\\:D/
great info mate..

you can knock another 75kg off that figure if you want the true curb weight..!
though i have no proof im putting out 290bhp..just a guesstimate from stock power running at around 18psi..

1987 Nik's rev3 sleeper
Kerb weight: 1065kg
Approx output: 290.0 bhp
Power to weight:272.30 bhp/ton(metric)


Hi,Nik
thought i just add, cobras are well made seats, i have there Imolla II FIA Bucket seats, granted a race seat(not for everyone,as in day to day real world),there v light weight for there cost, 6.1kgs each, the drivers seats like ways tones, i remember removing it as i unbolted it and almost did my back in, not believe it, from a small light-ish car hehe!.

Dave:hmm:

http://www.carpron.com/multisite/v/Upload/DJJ/
http://www.autozine.org/classic/toyota.htm
http://www.tbs-motorsports.com/suspension/index.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo0bWumUFv0&search=mr2


nik
you can knock another 75kg off that figure if you want the true curb weight..!
though i have no proof im putting out 290bhp..just a guesstimate from stock power running at around 18psi..

1987 Nik's rev3 sleeper
Kerb weight: 1065kg
Approx output: 290.0 bhp
Power to weight:272.30 bhp/ton(metric)

[Shorty]

I`ve tried to read that link on the frontpage a couple of time but always got an error. Will def read it now. Thx Nik:)

Shorty

[gts400+]

i have just over 400bhp in my gts so 1,200 k so mine must be 330 brake per ton or so...?

[Paul_1972]

Quickest car I drove was 580kg and 404bhp = 696bhp/ton - a Tiger Z100WR.

Not gonna try and go quite that mad on my MR2 V6 mind 220 - 300bhp with whatever a mk1 weighs with a V6! Then again - i have a kit car which i'll also be building - that'll be getting a ZX10r turbo engine. Estimate of 300bhp and sub 500kg so hopefully break the 600bhp/ton mark with that one

[snowtigger]

go hyabusa 1500 big bore and supercharge or turbo to 500bhp and stick that in a carbon westy you will run out of grip though if you make these too lite.

i wonder what the evora power to weight ratio is?

so 325bhp in a 1200kg mk1a hmmmm.

[Diesel Meister]

The Evora, depending on where you look, is betwwen 1350 and 1400kgs at the kerb. Ltous are know for quoting dry weights so the only way to be sure is to get one an corner weight it.

At 1350kgs that give PTWR of 207bhp/ton (metric). That's plenty but things tend to get interesting at or above that level.

Random comparison BMW M5 (E60) will a PTWR circa 260bhp/ton (metric).

ETA - anthing North of 200bhp/ton is more than brisk enough imo. A 2 GR Mk1, assuming ~300bhp and conservatively 1250kgs, is goig nto be a handful :)

I'd rather have an Evora in some ways (better chassis, less rusty) but it would seem slow next to a healthy V6 Mk1 with the same power methinks...

[Paul_1972]

go hyabusa 1500 big bore and supercharge or turbo to 500bhp and stick that in a carbon westy you will run out of grip though if you make these too lite.

Similar here - 777bhp/ton!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQO0Hx8EwEg