New 3VZ-FE swap no start issue.

[Ragnar]

Hi All,

Hopefully I can get this sorted, it's been months since I've started this build and it's driving me crazy trying to figure out what could possibly be missing. Motor is a 3VZ-FE, S54 manual in a 91 NA MR2 chassis.

It cranks but wont start. I set and checked the timing as per the BGB, cleaned my grounds, checked my fuses. I checked for spark at the coil and plugs(good), fuel pump is priming and sending fuel...

I used Paul Wood's Guide(1.1) and cross referenced with Nick Koch's Guide for some pinouts. I'm certain I wired it in right and I'm just missing something stupid. What else could be holding it back? ECU? AFM? What am I missing?

http://forums.twobrutal.com/files/v6...ide%20v1.1.pdf

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_d...COKVrG8&hl=en#

[cdwood2010]

Snow Mexico - brilliant!

Hi Ragnar, welcome to TB. You should have asked me i could have sent you the revised wiring guide with updated pics (no webbed hand shots etc)

If you have checked all / several plugs and there is a spark, if youve checked the fuel pressure (i carefully slacken the cold start injector) and the rail is getting pressurised then two things occour to me for starters.

Firstly, are the plugs getting fuel? The above conditions dont rule out injectors not opening. There is a test light you can buy / build which you connect to an injector, and it will blink if the injector is, well, injecting.

Secondly, has the engine been in bits? Is the engine timing correct? So crank pulley TDC, cam pullets aligned etc, and is the rotor arm on the dizzy pointing in a plug no.1 sort of direction.

Just some intial ideas really, but you sound like the sort of person who knows what they are doing so you may have tried these. It's usually something silly that got missed after too many hours of looking at the same issue.

Things like ECU fail would fuck things up too of course, easy to test if you have a second one.

Have a play with the above, and any history etc would help. In the meantime, here's a picture of a kitten.

[ya_crow]

Post some photos too, often someone will spot something wrong in pictures and point it out.

[Ragnar]

Snow Mexico - brilliant!

Hi Ragnar, welcome to TB. You should have asked me i could have sent you the revised wiring guide with updated pics (no webbed hand shots etc)

Thanks, I appreciate the welcome and wealth of knowledge you guys have here. I could still use the updated guide, it wouldn`t hurt to triple check just to be sure.

If you have checked all / several plugs and there is a spark, if youve checked the fuel pressure (i carefully slacken the cold start injector) and the rail is getting pressurised then two things occour to me for starters.

Firstly, are the plugs getting fuel? The above conditions dont rule out injectors not opening. There is a test light you can buy / build which you connect to an injector, and it will blink if the injector is, well, injecting.

Checked plug from igniter to distributor(1), and at the spark plugs(6). Fuel pressure is great, I neglected to tighten the feed line at the filter and cold start injector during my first attempt at starting it.... so I know for sure lol.

I made a test light from a wedge bulb I had laying around and found this dead plug:

Worked if i jiggled the wiring, read nothing at times on the voltmeter. Might be the issue or one of a couple, i hope that's it! Soldered a good used plug in.

Secondly, has the engine been in bits? Is the engine timing correct? So crank pulley TDC, cam pullets aligned etc, and is the rotor arm on the dizzy pointing in a plug no.1 sort of direction.

Just some intial ideas really, but you sound like the sort of person who knows what they are doing so you may have tried these. It's usually something silly that got missed after too many hours of looking at the same issue.

Things like ECU fail would fuck things up too of course, easy to test if you have a second one.

I did pull the heads and cams to clean the head and to replace the headgasket. I'm pretty sure it's aligned mostly correctly. Crank pulley at 0, lefthand cam gear flange in and lined up, righthand cam gear flange out and lined up.

One thing I am worried about is I may not have clocked the secondary cog gears right, how important is that? I fined up the single and double dots but it didn't seem like I needed to put a bolt in the gear to hold it together for assembly...Could that also cause a no start or would it just run rough?

Does where the rotor is pointing under the cap matter? I don't remember ever having to do that on any of my Hondas but i'll check. Could it be 180 out?

Another possible issue: No check engine light. Could just be a bad bulb/wiring but possibly bad ECU or AFM right? How would I go about testing the ECU if I don't have one handy? Same with the AFM, havent found a usable replacement to test out the the local autowreckers.


Here are some pics, I know I'm missing the ACIS and vac can but that isn't required to start right?










Also found this broken ground. This goes to the chassis?



ooh and one mystery plug, is this for PS?

[Ragnar]

Update: Still no start after grounding that wire and fixing that injector plug. Maybe I'm at TDC on the exhaust stroke instead of compression?

[cdwood2010]

Out presently. Will reply properly when I'm back at my laptop.

Everything should be earthed, so run continuity between chassis / heads / block / cam covers etc....

C.

[cdwood2010]

Hi,

I have sent you a PM with a link to v1.6 of the wiring guide. I have also included my email and moby number, should you get desperate and want a quick reply.

Anyhoot, firstly i don't really have a wealth of knowledge, but i kinda do what i can. :) So here goes.....

I did pull the heads and cams to clean the head and to replace the headgasket. I'm pretty sure it's aligned mostly correctly. Crank pulley at 0, lefthand cam gear flange in and lined up, righthand cam gear flange out and lined up.

Does where the rotor is pointing under the cap matter? I don't remember ever having to do that on any of my Hondas but i'll check. Could it be 180 out?

Okay, this is why i asked. People sometimes get it wrong, so its worth checking to rule it out. Crank the engine around to TDC, with the cam pulleys lined up (should both be at the top). Take a pic with your phone dead in front of each pulley, just to make sure. Your eye will play tricks with you.

Providing those are spot on, make a note of where plug lead #1 is on the dizzy cap, remove the dizzy cap and make sure the rotor arm is pointed roughly in that direction. Dont worry too much, just so long as its not 180 out.

One thing I am worried about is I may not have clocked the secondary cog gears right, how important is that? I fined up the single and double dots but it didn't seem like I needed to put a bolt in the gear to hold it together for assembly...Could that also cause a no start or would it just run rough?

I have done this myself, and i have worked on engines that have been like this for ages. An engine might run a little lumpy, but most people probably wouldnt notice (IMHO). When the cams are removed, the sprung cogs release, which is why you stick a 10mm bolt in there. If they are unsprung, you can remove them (they are the secondary cams so its just cam covers off to get at them) and twist them back to a sprung position and put the 10mm bolt in an reassemble. If you listen to a lot of these engines, you can sometimes hear the difference before and after. The spring is just to keep the slacky slapy out of the cams, but it will not stop the engine running whatever.

Another possible issue: No check engine light. Could just be a bad bulb/wiring but possibly bad ECU or AFM right? How would I go about testing the ECU if I don't have one handy? Same with the AFM, havent found a usable replacement to test out the the local autowreckers.

The check engine light working would be handy, pulling error codes might help diagnose something if its fairly basic. I don't have a spare ECU or AFM, but i may be able to track them down if it comes to it. The last ones i bought came from the USA, so Snow Mexico might be a damn sight easier place to fine them. Have a chat with JFB:-

http://tinyurl.com/yanbekpx

Here are some pics, I know I'm missing the ACIS and vac can but that isn't required to start right?

ACIS plumbing and VAC can (i dont use the can btw) wont stop the engine running, not unless theres a mahoosive air leak.

ooh and one mystery plug, is this for PS?

I think that plug, judging by its location, goes to one of the sensors on the water spout, just below the fuel rails. The colours should help identify it.

Hope some of this helps. it's usually something silly that stops a first run. Feel free to post more questions or email me directly if it's quicker.

Chris :)

[Deadly_Smell]

check that the sump level sensor is connected and working its in the afm - fuel pump circuit it won't start without the sensor closed i.e. detecting that the sump has oil in it. The sensor if I remember correctly is located on the RH side of the sump looking from the pulley end.

[Ragnar]

check that the sump level sensor is connected and working its in the afm - fuel pump circuit it won't start without the sensor closed i.e. detecting that the sump has oil in it. The sensor if I remember correctly is located on the RH side of the sump looking from the pulley end.

Alternator side right? I read something Paul woods said about grounding a white/black wire at the afm. I think that bypasses the sump level sensor. It's on the list of things to try today.

[Ragnar]

Hi,

Okay, this is why i asked. People sometimes get it wrong, so its worth checking to rule it out. Crank the engine around to TDC, with the cam pulleys lined up (should both be at the top). Take a pic with your phone dead in front of each pulley, just to make sure. Your eye will play tricks with you.

Providing those are spot on, make a note of where plug lead #1 is on the dizzy cap, remove the dizzy cap and make sure the rotor arm is pointed roughly in that direction. Dont worry too much, just so long as its not 180 out.

On closer inspection it might be off by half a tooth and the rotor is maybe 90° from the 1st lead. Is that ok?