View Full Version : Gearbox options??
splintermcinnes
12-08-2007, 10:37
hey guys,
are there any other gearboxes that would work easily on the Mk2, i do alot of motorway driving with mine and it really need a sixth gear. when your at 90(ish) the engine is sat at 5000rpm!! its like you would either need to swap the 5th cog for a longer ratio cog, or a six geared box. thing is, what six geared box would fit, or would it be easier to get my box modified with a longer 5th gear?
cheers
Matt
msherry21
12-08-2007, 10:55
What gearbox do you have? If its the E153 - turbo gearbox, then you can use the final drive gear from a Celica St165, makes a huge difference to motorway driving.
Theres a thread on here that gives you the relevant part numbers and prices.
If its the N/A box, then I want to know this too as I would prefer a taller 5th gear.
splintermcinnes
12-08-2007, 11:03
Thats top info there :thumbsup: . mine is the Turbo 'box. any idea where that thread is? sounds like a good plan, rather thansplash out on a custom box!! although a nice sequential 6 geared box would be sweet!! :mrgreen:
msherry21
12-08-2007, 11:35
http://forums.twobrutal.com/showthread.php?t=6127&highlight=final+drive
There you go mate, that should do you nicely!
decipherer
13-08-2007, 12:57
But wait a minute... 90(ish) at 5000rpm.. Means 126(ish) at 7000 rpm. Does this mean the top speed of the turbo is only 126? Can't imagine it having such a low top speed. What am I missing here :confused:
I find that my car (V6 with NA gearbox) tops out really quickly at about 120 ish - i don't want to go any further up the rev range just in case.
I was suffering the same ...
However, with the 3SGTE running the car, I was having 3.5krpm for motorway cruising at around 80mph IIRC. Now, the ratios are set, so surely we should still be getting this?
I'm not convinced as to the accuracy of the Camry tacho in the dash.
This would also explain why we can rev them to 8krpm and NOT get fuel cut, which is meant to 7100rpm, from memory (can anyone confirm?). I think what might be happening is that there's still a 4/6 conversion missing somewhere and what we're seeing @ 5krpm (indicated) is more like 3.3-3.5krpm (actual) - which then ties in with what we are seeing.
The 8krpm (indicated) that we can rev to is still (5.4krpm ish), so for a 6500 (actual) rev limit, we'd need to rev to 9750 (indicated).
That make sense to anyone? Or is it pure bollox?
splintermcinnes
13-08-2007, 13:55
126 is no where near what it can do!!! i had a play with a carrera 4 and got it up to above 150, didnt see what the revs were at that speed though! think it was arround 7/7.5k
EDIT: just seen johnnys post, this would make sense! as i have wondered why i can rev over the supposed rev limiter?!!
Marksman
13-08-2007, 17:11
Hmm, was going to post this as we were having a play in Paff's V6, but in a MK1 with an unmolested rev counter this time. Now we'd assumed that the rev counter would top out and stop but instead it just went off the scale and kept rotating. I think we hit rev limit at an indicated 12,000 which would equate to a real 8000, providing that the gauge stayed linear.
Owen.
Sounds about right that J. think the uncalibrated rev counter on my mk1 showed about that sort of rev's (just under where 10k is, well if it had had the dial show rev's that high) when we tested it
wasit 12k then O, knew it was high, didn't think it was that high
Marksman
13-08-2007, 17:15
Much highness was observed.
O.S.
I have hit the rev limiter and it was at around 7k - so the tacho must be accurate if the rev limiter kicks in at 7100.
With the 3S I could quite comfortably see 130 with revs to spare.
This is confusing.
To clear up the gear box issue.
With the turbo box
Where do we get the extended ratios from as i have seen varying options.
1. st165 - is this the normal 3sge engined car
2. is it the turbo only model
3 or the 4x4 model
as i'm confused - cheers
doesn't take much to confuse you does it garbe?
The ST165 extended ratios are for the E153 turbo box :)
splintermcinnes
13-08-2007, 18:40
To clear up the gear box issue.
With the turbo box
Where do we get the extended ratios from as i have seen varying options.
1. st165 - is this the normal 3sge engined car
2. is it the turbo only model
3 or the 4x4 model
as i'm confused - cheers
we are talkin about the standard turbo box on the V6 engine in a Mk2. the ST165 box parts are from the Celica (gen 4 i think). and a 4x4?? mr2???? eeer no! that would be the celica!
basicaly, from what has been said, even with the modification to the rev counter on the V6's, there is still a discretion between what it says and what the engines doing! so we dont really know when the limiter kicks in, but i havent hit it yet and have had it up to arround 7.5k indicated. also it still sounds like its revving to high on the motor way, hence the reason to extend the ratios. right, sorted ???:thumbsup:
HTH
Matt
I've been wondering about the rev counter issue before too, along the lines of tony's comments. Perhaps all will become clear when the ecu work is sorted out and we can get a direct reading from the ecu....??
Another point that is often made regarding the gearbox mod in the states - if I recall correctly - is that it improves the 0-60 time. :P
Something like normal box is 58mph top in 2nd, so you have to change to 3rd for 60... but slightly longer final drive equates to top of 63mph in 2nd, so no need to change to 3rd, saving a little time.... so quicker 0-60. Something like that anyway? Not sure if that holds true with jap/uk boxes though, or if its something to do with us ones....
I have hit the rev limiter and it was at around 7k - so the tacho must be accurate if the rev limiter kicks in at 7100.
With the 3S I could quite comfortably see 130 with revs to spare.
This is confusing.
Just a thought - could it be that the camry board may have been tested in the factory when it was biult, and adjusted/tweaked to match up with its rev counter as best as it could? Or different revisions/versions? Would mean that even though its converting our 4 cylinder dials to work with 6 cylinder engine, its not within the expected tolerances....
...and perhaps subtle changes in either the mr2 dial or camry board between revisions? I'm running turbo running gear in a uk car that originally had a 2 litre engine - and I'm seeing 4k rpm at 80 in 5th, and it wasn't that high with the 3sgte if I recall correctly.
Definately need to fit some sort of electronic/ecu driven one (with number readout instead of a needle) to see exactly what the story is. :D
loadswine
13-08-2007, 22:17
Now I'm confused, as I thought the NA boxes had slightly longer gearing overall than the turbo boxes. What I'm reading here, says otherwise.
I still reckon we should get some Camry manual boxes shipped over from the US.
To clear up the gear box issue.
With the turbo box
Where do we get the extended ratios from as i have seen varying options.
1. st165 - is this the normal 3sge engined car
2. is it the turbo only model
3 or the 4x4 model
as i'm confused - cheers
Right I meant which Celica do the parts come from 1,2 or 3.
Mr Moobs I know we put the bits into the Mr2 turbo box
1. The ST165 is the first 3SGTE Celica GTFour 4x4
2. The mods will only work on a turbo E153 gearbox
3. eh?
There you go, Garbeage... hope that helps :)
Poohbear
19-08-2007, 09:43
So Noob question from me...is there a solution to the difference in reading of the rev counter or is it something we just have to live with?
Bob
there is a solution to the rev counter. Can't remember offhand what it was tho, am sure someone will be along soon who can point ya to the thread
Pay someone to recalibrate it methinks. Paul has someone local who can do it and does the mk1 calibrations.
ah who needs it done anyway, tis quite nuts seeing the guage reach where 12k should be :)
Bob
the rev counter is easily fixed on the MK2
its just a matter of swapping a small circuit board out of the rev conter with the camry item - paul sorts all this out. - mk2 reads a 4 pulse signal - 4 cylinder engine.
Camry item has a 6 pulse reading -6 cylinder engine.
1. The ST165 is the first 3SGTE Celica GTFour 4x4
2. The mods will only work on a turbo E153 gearbox
3. eh?
There you go, Garbeage... hope that helps :)
moobs i just wanted to clear up which celica the bits come from.
I'm guessing now that it is only the turbo one and not any other model?
Poohbear
19-08-2007, 19:19
Bob
the rev counter is easily fixed on the MK2
its just a matter of swapping a small circuit board out of the rev conter with the camry item - paul sorts all this out. - mk2 reads a 4 pulse signal - 4 cylinder engine.
Camry item has a 6 pulse reading -6 cylinder engine.
Thing is I can get my head around the 6 pulses etc etc...but having looked through this board it seems that people who have already made the swap and I'm assuming have had their tacho changed over, are saying that at 80 mph they are doing 4000 rpm.
Now in my Rev2 3S-GE @ 80mph my revs are @ 3600rpm, maybe I'm being thick but it's the same gearbox, why does changing the engine change the gearing?? or is it that the electronics from the Camry are somehow wrong??
Feel free to tell me I'm a numpty but explain why too :)
Bob
loadswine
19-08-2007, 20:08
From what I've read so far, it appears that the Camry electronics might have a little issue inthis area. I wonder if its the change from auto to manual that does it? If so, I wonder whether the upcoming ecu that Jeremy is working on might sort this out. I might ask this on the maps thread.
Marksman
19-08-2007, 20:46
Thing is I can get my head around the 6 pulses etc etc...but having looked through this board it seems that people who have already made the swap and I'm assuming have had their tacho changed over, are saying that at 80 mph they are doing 4000 rpm.
Now in my Rev2 3S-GE @ 80mph my revs are @ 3600rpm, maybe I'm being thick but it's the same gearbox, why does changing the engine change the gearing?? or is it that the electronics from the Camry are somehow wrong??
Feel free to tell me I'm a numpty but explain why too :)
Bob
As far as I'm concerned you're right. You could rotate the gearbox by using whatever method you like, providing nothing else in the drivetrain has been altered then the the rpm for 80mph can't move!
O.S.
OMG, I hate doing this. I agree with ... OWEN!
There's got to be some discrepency between the 3VZ-FE, 3SGE, 3SGTE Tacho - maybe it works ok in the 3SGE speedo but not as well in the 3SGTE? Who knows.
We need Jeremy's input, or we'll see what the true output it once they're getting mapped!
Marksman
19-08-2007, 20:52
:wave: Johnny.
O.S.
When I had my 3s in it was just over 4k at 80mph - same now with the V6
Thats with the tom tom.
Could do with the turbo box and longer final drive now there's some ooomph in the old girl
Garbeage, was yours a 3SGE?
loadswine
19-08-2007, 22:06
Goodness knows what's going to happen with mine! Still, I don't care about the eroneous tacho readings when the V6 is going to be purring away.:thumbsup:
It is an obstacle that can be overcome mate - as per the Mk1 shower!
Maybe the board works ok in the 3SGE speedos but has some kind of problem in the 3SGTE?
I know I'd rather believe Neos Designs timescales than my tacho...
Ear Tachos i think are the best option here methinks.
Why not buy something like this CLICKY (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rev-counter-Tachometer-52mm-SPIDER-EYES_W0QQitemZ180147874685QQihZ008QQcategoryZ43120 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) or this CLICKY (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TYPE-R-5-Tachometer-with-Shift-Light-rev-counter-NEW_W0QQitemZ110161408805QQihZ001QQcategoryZ122140 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) and use it to check the accuracy of the dash tacho ? they are easy to connect up and wouldn't have to be permanently installed, could easily be made up with a length of cable and croc clips or similar so that it could be quickly connected/disconnected, could even be passed around the members to do individual checks. That way you can find out if they are consistently out or if the error is individual to each car. You could even use a good multimeter set to Hz, from the frequency its not that difficult to work out the rpm.
Jimi
just my $0.02 worth, i swapped in the tacho from a V6 camry and my readings definately arent right, cos, indicated revs at a certain speed dont match the indicated revs at the same speed on my friend's tacho, as i drive alongside his MR2 that has an identical gearbox (S54 from 3SGE).
Nick tis a good idea trying an aftermarket one, in fact I'm going to be borrowing the one that AlunJ has at somepoint to actually try it out with mine.
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