v6 ECU wiring plugs wanted

[JMR_AW11]

Hi
Paul kindly sent me a V6 ECU to play with and I dumped out the ROM code from the main MCU chip this evening.

I now really need some ECU plugs so I can wire the ECU up neatly to a simulator jig so does anyone have a spare set of wiring/plugs for the V6 ECU they could send me?

If I can wire it up to the simulator easily then I can calibrate all the maps and post them up on here.

This ECU has two sets of 3D maps for fuel and ignition, one appears higher performance than the other. Does this ECU have a set of 'limp' maps that kick in if the car has problems? BTW the lower performance maps are smaller and have retarded timing and they run richer as well.

[superchargedsam]

might be able to help out in a couple of weeks if nothing comes up in the mean time fella!

[Fizzy]

Interesting - are you trying to figure out the internal workings of the ecu and if its possible to get it working "properly" with a manual box with speed line connected....

....or are you just curious how its set up? ;)

I strongly suspect that there is a limp home/safe mode map in place as toyota tend to do that a lot, like prevent any form of positive boost on a turbo (or at least not active the vsv), restrict speed/revs etc...?

[superchargedsam]

oh think he will do a lot more than that with it! has done some cool stuff with ECUs from what I have read on various forums!

[Paul Woods]

indeed,jeremy is a legend when it comes to probing the inner workings of the toyota ecu,ive asked him to have a delve into the v6 unit so we can find out a bit more about how they work,how the auto ecu is being affected by no longer getting auto inputs and any other secrets there may be lurking inside there! He's really breaking into virgin territory here for us,a true pioneer!

Wish i could help with those v6 plugs jeremy,none spare at the moment,i'll see what i can do....perhaps some of the 4a/3s plugs will fit?

[Marksman]

Doesn't Paff have one and a half V6 looms? All ask him later...

O.S.

[Fizzy]

indeed,jeremy is a legend when it comes to probing the inner workings of the toyota ecu,ive asked him to have a delve into the v6 unit so we can find out a bit more about how they work,how the auto ecu is being affected by no longer getting auto inputs and any other secrets there may be lurking inside there! He's really breaking into virgin territory here for us,a true pioneer!

Wish i could help with those v6 plugs jeremy,none spare at the moment,i'll see what i can do....perhaps some of the 4a/3s plugs will fit?

:praise2: :thumbsup: Wow - great news! Shame I haven't got a spare plug.

If all else fails I'm willing to part with some cash if any connections need to be bought, since its for a good cause. :)

[JMR_AW11]

You may be in luck I think i have a spare set of multiplugs that will fit the 3vz ecu. :)
I know ive got a v6 loom but im sure ive got another set of plugs that will fit the pinouts (may need wires adding/removing). :hmm:

Let me know if thats ok and ill drop em in the post.
Btw, would you need the plugs with lengths of wires attached or can you put your own crimps onto cables to do em that way?

Either way, let me know and ill see what i can sort out. :thumbsup:
Wow that's great.

Please leave the wires attached. About a foot will be fine but it doesn't matter if its shorter.

I've only had a quick look through the V6 ROM code and this ECU is a bit weird. It runs with a different clock speed to normal and I guess it's because it's a V6 with different firing intervals.

Can anyone tell me the firing order and crank offsets for this engine?

Also there is a truly weird 3D map in there that may have something to do with the auto box. Never seen anything like it in a Toyota ECU before...

Once I get the plugs I can run the ECU on the bench and datalog it to see how it is affected by the auto box.

BTW I may need to ask some more odd/silly questions about V6 engines and auto boxes as I really just do electronics and my hands on experience is limited.

I'll try and post up the hi/lo performance maps I've found so far but they will not be calibrated against rpm or EFI/timing and you will just have to look at the shapes.

Please note that I'm only taking a casual look at this ECU as I have other ongoing projects so progress will be slow I'm afraid.

[biteme]

Wicked to see you doing this for us!

I'll have a spare ECU going relatively soon mate - so if you brick yours or want a test bed, you're welcome to it!

[JMR_AW11]

Firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6 starting from the rear bank crankpulley side and then jumps to the front bank then back over.
Firing interval is 60 degrees.

Ok on the wiring stuff ill go have a butchers through what ive got and let you know later today. :)

Thanks

BTW Paul mentioned some stuff about a speed sensor mod so I had a quick look at all the speed sensor references in the main program code.

It all looks pretty normal with LOTS of speed sensor tests for speeds between 5 and 25kph (and some at 0kph)

But this ECU also has some other tests at higher speeds eg 30 and 35kph.

Also 45kph and 70kph. This bit of code appears to be affected by coolant temp as well which is a bit odd. i.e. the 45 and 70kph speed sensor tests only apply when the engine is warming up....?

There are two more at 100kph.

I don't even know if these are in kph but I strongly suspect they are as they use similar numbers to JDM ECUs for the low speed tests found in all ECUs.

It's way too early for me to be able to work out what these tests are for as I don't yet have a full wiring diagram for this ECU and I don't know where all the pins/ports connect to.

There is also another MCU chip in the ECU (auto box controller?) and this may well be affected by the speed sensor as well.

[JMR_AW11]

Ive got a spare ecu without the plug attached to the mainboard.......you could have that and wire it to the board direct if thatd be easier??? :hmm:
I'd really want an ECU that could be unplugged as standard so it could go in a car quickly. Eg I'd like to be able to send a modded ECU to Paul to play with, eg with a datalogger.

But don't throw it away.... I may find a use for it soon!


Wicked to see you doing this for us!

I'll have a spare ECU going relatively soon mate - so if you brick yours or want a test bed, you're welcome to it!

Thanks. The one I have from Paul is the 89661-33010 auto ECU.

[Barronmr]

Also 45kph and 70kph. This bit of code appears to be affected by coolant temp as well which is a bit odd. i.e. the 45 and 70kph speed sensor tests only apply when the engine is warming up....?



I noticed while driving the auto camry that the car wouldn't rev hard when cold, it refused to go into certain rev ranges until the temp was up. Maybe this has something to do with it?

:)

[Fizzy]

My 2 is reluctant to accelerate when cold too at times, but generally only until its warmed up a little. I try to warm it up before I drive it though. :idea:

Was there any form of coolant/oil temp sensor for the auto box on the camry? I can understand it trying to protect the auto box - it likes giving it an easy life like the timing adjustment for gearchanges.. ;)

[Fizzy]

This ECU has two sets of 3D maps for fuel and ignition, one appears higher performance than the other. Does this ECU have a set of 'limp' maps that kick in if the car has problems? BTW the lower performance maps are smaller and have retarded timing and they run richer as well.

Just had a thought - could this possibly be two different maps for the mode selection - i.e. that button marked "econ" to switch between economy and power mode? I would assume the engine needs a leaner (?) map for power mode, especially considering it will be higher revving/going to the redline?

I don't think we have determined a way to keep it in "power" mode at all times though, or be sure which map its running at any given time, so would be interesting if the relevant trigger/settings section could be found in the ecu. :D

[Paul Woods]

fizzy im 99% sure the econ/sports button controls the shift points of the auto box only.

[Fizzy]

fizzy im 99% sure the econ/sports button controls the shift points of the auto box only.

Fair enough - was just a thought. Wasn't sure how far they would go with such a feature. :hmm: Kickdown mode maybe? I definately notice a difference when I have it floored other than almost floored. ;) Also doesn't the cvis/acis or whatever it is only kick in under wide open throttle? Again only seems to change engine note at 4000+ rpm or so if I have it floored...

....although I guess basic air flow/fuel maps would probably cater for that. :hmm: Guess only a good fiddling in the ecu internal workings will reveal whats its trying to do. :)

[JMR_AW11]

Awww bollocks! Cant find the spare set which means i only have the current set and cant cut that loom up yet.... :(

Counts me out as a helper unfortunately. Sooory... :(


Thanks for looking anyway...

I've not been able to look much more at the V6 ECU as i've been back on the 3SGTE ECU stuff.

I made a tunable board this week for the 3SGTE ECU and it seems to work quite well on a simple test jig. It allows ROM reflashes via a laptop. I've not actually tried it in an ECU+car yet but it should work fine.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/04/310.jpg

In theory I could adapt it it support the V6 ECU but that would require a different PCB layout to fit the ECU Paul sent me.

Alternatively I could make an ugly adaptor interface and plug it in 'ugly' style to see if it works in the V6 ECU. It would look a mess but it should work...

[JMR_AW11]

Go for it! :)
I'd really need a second V6 ECU and also the ECU plugs/wires.

I'd need to keep one ECU stock and plug a ROM board into the other.

This ROM PCB will fit ANY Toyota ECU that uses the 64pin MCU chip. The 64 pin MCU chip gets removed from the ECU main board and gets relocated on my daughterboard. You can see the original 64pin MCU chip in the image as it's the big rectangular chip on my ROM board.

The daughterboard then plugs into the 64 pin conns left empty by the old MCU chip on the ECU PCB.

Because of the layout of the V6 ECU I'd have to buy/make an adaptor to plug it in, otherwise it would foul against other devices in the V6 ECU.

[superchargedsam]

I may be able to help out in the coming weeks as got my sparecamry at mine now ready for strippage and not far away as your in cheltenham I seem to remeber!

[JMR_AW11]

I may be able to help out in the coming weeks as got my sparecamry at mine now ready for strippage and not far away as your in cheltenham I seem to remeber!

That's good. I tried the new ROM board in a rev1 3SGTE ECU this evening and it seems to work fine. It needs more testing over the next few days but this board should work in a V6 ECU as well (with a mounting adaptor)

Yes I'm near Cheltenham. It's a shame Paul is so far away as with an adaptor fitted we could be trying this board in a V6 powered MR2 very soon!

I really need those ECU plugs asap. Also ECU plugs to fit the mk2 MR2 ECUs and the mk1 SC ECU.

[Marksman]

I have a spare SC loom if I can find it though not really keen on chopping off just the plugs. I could lend it to you though if you promise to re-solder any wires that you snip though if that helps?

O.S.

[Paul Woods]

ive defo got some mk2 ecu plugs for you jeremy,i'll post them up to you shortly :thumbsup:

[superchargedsam]

Jeremy will be taking camry apart over coming couple of weeks fingers crossed and if you need a real SC to try anything out on let me know and will drive up as my family only live 20 miles from cheltenham so good opportunity to visit them and me mates!

[JMR_AW11]

I have a spare SC loom if I can find it though not really keen on chopping off just the plugs. I could lend it to you though if you promise to re-solder any wires that you snip though if that helps?

O.S.
I'm afraid I would have the snippers on it before you could say snippety snip!

I actually have two of the three SC plugs already so I really only need one more.

I'm going to a local breakers this weekend to see if I can spot any Toyotas with the missing plug amongst the wrecks. they let you remove the parts yourself so I'll go there armed with a hacksaw...

This new 3SGTE ROM board is working great and I want to try it in lots of ECUs. If I have plugs for each ECU it makes it much easier. I'm pretty sure the board will work in a camry V6 ECU but I won't be trying it without the plugs as it would take me ages to wire it up with loose wires.

BTW I now have a full wiring doc for the 1992 camry. It's a huge PDF (maybe 240 pages in colour?) covering several engine variants. Is this file already on this site? If not i'll email it to Paul for upload.

I assume it is the right doc for the ECU I have from Paul.
It covers the 3VZ-FE ECU on page155.


FOREWORD
This wiring diagram manual has been prepared to provide
information on the electrical system of the 1992 TOYOTA
CAMRY.
Applicable models: SXV 10 Series
VCV 10 Series
For service specifications and repair procedures of the above
models other than those listed in this manual, refer to the
following manuals;
Manual Name Pub. No.
 1992 CAMRY Repair Manual
 1992 CAMRY New Car Features
RM222U
NCF077U

[Paul Woods]

oooh i dont think ive got that one jeremy,any chance you can forward it to me?

Ive got a few sets of mk2 NA and turbo plugs here for you now,i'll send them down on saturday :thumbsup:

[JMR_AW11]

oooh i dont think ive got that one jeremy,any chance you can forward it to me?

Ive got a few sets of mk2 NA and turbo plugs here for you now,i'll send them down on saturday :thumbsup:


Thanks Paul.

I've just emailed you the Camry wiring doc. It's 4megs so will take a while to download. I don't know which countries the doc refers to but it has the 3VZ ECU (with the integral auto ECU) on p155.

Jeremy

[AlunJ]

Which connector for the SC ecu do ya need? I'm in the process of rewiring a SC loom to run MegaSquirt so don't need the ECU end for now.

[JMR_AW11]

Which connector for the SC ecu do ya need? I'm in the process of rewiring a SC loom to run MegaSquirt so don't need the ECU end for now.


The SC ECU I have has 10Pin + 18Pin + 24Pin

I'm missing the 24pin connection.

Will you be able to leave any wires on the plug ? I would ideally want either 12 inches of wire or failing that, no wires (I'll connect direct to the plug connector pins)

Will you need it back in the future? Maybe it's best to let me try the breakers tomorrow if you do need it back as I might make a mess of it by the time I am finished with it!

[AlunJ]

Jeremy, I'll have a rummage tomorrow when I'm at my friends place (don't have the engine stored here). Shouldn't be a problem leaving a bit of wire on the plug, iirc the original loom was cut at the engine side of the firewall so there's a fair bit of wire attached.

Doubt I'd need the sc ecu plug back, the stock ecu isn't going to be seeing much use after the AFM goes in the bin and the boost gets turned up :)

[JMR_AW11]

Jeremy, I'll have a rummage tomorrow when I'm at my friends place (don't have the engine stored here). Shouldn't be a problem leaving a bit of wire on the plug, iirc the original loom was cut at the engine side of the firewall so there's a fair bit of wire attached.

Doubt I'd need the sc ecu plug back, the stock ecu isn't going to be seeing much use after the AFM goes in the bin and the boost gets turned up :)

That sounds good!

Here's an image of the 3SGTE ROM board fitted to a rev1 ECU.

I've been testing it quite thoroughly today and it works great. I now need to find someone willing to try the modded ECU in a rev1 tubby.
I'd want to try various reflashes with the ECU in situ in the car, maybe play with the speed limiter and allow a little extra boost :thumbsup:

It should plug into the V6 ECU with a height adaptor.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2007/05/50.jpg