View Full Version : Engine won't switch off?
Hi Peeps,
Well, had an odd problem that only happened once before since my v6 swap.
I parked up in my drive, switched off the ignition - and the engine was still running. In fact looks like the entire ignition system is still active? I had to think of a way to stall it - so very briefly kicked in the starter motor again which stopped it straight away - which is odd as normally doing that in a car just makes a nasty noise while you try "starting" it.....
..anyhow, I stuck in reverse gear just in case (as my drive is a bit of a slope) and the reverse lights are on - so looks like the ignition is indeed stuck on?
I do have a clifford 300 alarm (with immoboliser) - I think it may be something to do with that (sticky relay?) but open to other suggestions as to what to check...... never been a problem before the V6 conversion though, so wondered if there anything v6 specific I can check?
If you can get to the control box you may find some small switches on there (can't remember the layout of the clifford) I belive the 300 has a full closure option, it may be something is faulty with this part of the alarm causing this problem.
Had the same with an alarm of mine once. Basically when the full closure is activated it kept the ignition on until the windows had fully shut. If there is a fault making the alarm belive it is still operating the windows it will stick on.
If you find the switch and turn it off and the problem stops theres your answer. That is the only one I can think of I have dealt with that keeps the ignition on.
very strange, sounds like you said your ignition is stuck on. You don't have a turbo timer or something like that installed or a turbo timer option on your alarm system do you? That might explain it?
strangely enough goldy I was thinking the same thing as soon as I had posted my last reply
very strange, sounds like you said your ignition is stuck on. You don't have a turbo timer or something like that installed or a turbo timer option on your alarm system do you? That might explain it?
Yes, I do have the timer circuit (usually used for lights) tied into the ignition circuit as a "turbo timer". However, this is activated, and can also be overridden by the "light" button on the remote. When this is activated there is an audible click from the heater area (where I guess the relay/alarm is stashed ;) )...
..and its the first thing I thought of. A few presses of said button resulted in clicks switching the relay on and off, but the engine stayed running.
I also decided to take out the boost gauge while I was checking the wiring to the relay/alarm, and when I tried screwing in the radio back in there was sparking from the screw when it met the chassis?!?!? It didn't do that before, and the iginition was switched off too, engine stopped and immobiliser on that time.....
Taken out the active speaker cable adapter thingy to test but I don't think its that.
Sounds like something is shorting somewhere, or not switching the ignition/auxilary curcuit off properly.
However, after I stopped the engine as explained before, I went back to the car about 30 mins later and tested to see if the reverse lights would come on. and they didn't.... and engine stopped/started as expected. Still get that issue with the stereo though...
All a bit odd and something for me to check out over the weekend I think.
Any comments/suggestions? Anybody know how easy it is to disable the "turbo timer" function of the alarm?
first thing to do, disable the alarm completely, if possible, to see if its at fault. never heard of a car staying running, its surely the alarm but good to check!. i fitted many systems like that to cars, they usually work by feeding 2-3 wires of the IGN harness with 12V to sustain running. there should also be a relay or two for the alarm and its outputs.. check they are getting earthed properly.
also some of the old timers / remote start systems use the brake pedal or handbrake cable earth (drop handbrake) or operate foot brake as an off switch, try that.
if you do happen to trace the input into the IGn harness from the alarm you could put a kill switch inline to the FP etc etc.
Hmmm, very odd. I doubt it is swap related, as my car has never done this nor have I heard of any other V6 conversions with this problem.
Also seeing as you car did it before (even if it was only the once) it could well be down to the alarm/timer system. I remember Tony saying about clifford alarms being temperamental when we first started your swapsies.
One thing is for sure, the stereo arcing whilst screwing in a fixing with the ING off doesn't sound very good, the casing for that and the surrounding area should be earthed not live! Do a test to see if the car body has become live somehow, if it has don't fill up with fuel until the prob has been corrected !
As adam said, see if you can eliminate the alarm first, check body for live, check battery terminals are not shorting to ground somehow and keep the updates coming over the weekend whilst I'm still around (off away again on Monday)
Hmmm, very odd. I doubt it is swap related, as my car has never done this nor have I heard of any other V6 conversions with this problem.
Yup - it is on odd one. Perhaps the COR relay is sticking (or am I getting a bit confused here ;) ). I always thought the immobolisers and the like were more inclined to CUT the engine that keep it running...? Sounds like a strange earth problem somewhere....
Also seeing as you car did it before (even if it was only the once) it could well be down to the alarm/timer system. I remember Tony saying about clifford alarms being temperamental when we first started your swapsies.
When I said it did it once before, it was actually the first weekend I popped up to my brothers AFTER the V6 swap. Its never done it prior to that. It only did it once - I switched on the ignition back on, switched off and (if I recall correctly) it went off then. Thought it was just a one off...
One thing is for sure, the stereo arcing whilst screwing in a fixing with the ING off doesn't sound very good, the casing for that and the surrounding area should be earthed not live! Do a test to see if the car body has become live somehow, if it has don't fill up with fuel until the prob has been corrected !
:( I'll check that today. How do you check that the chassis is live - voltage meter from body to negative terminal of battery I assume?
As adam said, see if you can eliminate the alarm first, check body for live, check battery terminals are not shorting to ground somehow and keep the updates coming over the weekend whilst I'm still around (off away again on Monday)
Will do. I located the alarm box and what looks like the relay box in the center section above the air vents (behind the clock), but as its thatcham approved its all black wiring. May be fun trying to trace it all.... if I can get it out of there.....
I'll let you know how I get on.
Last test last night, engine started straight away, and switched off fine too. I hate intermittant problems... :(
Right, I think I've found out what the problem is - or at least the symptoms.
When checking out the stereo wiring connections, I tested the power connections on the adapter lead - no power on either the permenant or switched 12v lines.... so I tried again and used the chassis (i.e. the stereo bolt hole ;) ) as ground and this time the permanant 12v line showed 12v, and the switched one - 0v. Switched on ignition to "ACC", and switched 12v showing 12v as expected.
Now - the odd thing is that when I switched off the ignition, the switched ignition 12v line did not drop to 0v straight away - it dropped to around 3-4v, and slowly decreased until it eventually reached 0v......?
So, at a guess I would say that theres a ground/earth problem, and somehow/or something its effecting the switched 12v line? I assume that the engine/ecu/ignition relies on the switched 12v going to 0v - so if it doesn't straight away I guess a relay is still being powered and therefore it doesn't switch off? (Possibly tied into the alarm/immboliser curcuit I guess).
Hmm... looks like a bad earth/ground point somewhere. An idea what else is tied into the ground the stereo uses.... as it was probably grounding itself through the stereo housing??? Were would the "normal" ground point be?
Also should point out that I'm using the toyota active speaker system, and it would appear that the head unit gets all its signals/power from the amplifier? So the ground fault is probably on the circuit to the amp... erm.. if that helps at all. :confused:
Going to be fun tracing all that, even with a circuit diagram - which is for a rev1 - 2 so probably all the colours are different on a rev 3.. :mrgreen:
Will do. I located the alarm box and what looks like the relay box in the center section above the air vents (behind the clock), but as its thatcham approved its all black wiring. May be fun trying to trace it all.... if I can get it out of there.....
I'm pretty sure this is the immobiliser.
I had to fiddle with mine, all black wires, when new they are labelled, but you cut them to length so labels removed.
fiz, cam you not take the motor too a clifford dealer and show the problem?
have you instructions for the system? you know...these alarms have complex logic control which work on order of sequence, like shutting doors and engine off and timing things and stuff... i.e; if you do things or do not do things in a certain order and timeframe things do not always happen etc.. simplest way to explain!. might need re-progging, which timer things you can usually turn on/off permanently
Well - I would demonstrate the problem, but it seems to be intermittant - it was fine today.... ?
Spent a good few hours checking out the wiring today. Took out the plastic panel covering the active system amp, had to also take out the seatbelt to get at the amp connections.
Then took out the centre console, the centre channel cover thingy (which also requiered the storage box to be removed). Then decided to take the rear sound proofing, which required taking out the top plastic strip below the rear window. Was also tempted to take the passenger seat out to give me more room. :D
Started tracing cables/wires, checking continuity etc... and got a bit confused with it all. Going to check the circuit diagram and try and figure out what the hell is going on. What I thought was the earth/gdn wire is in fact just fastened to the shielding of the cables to the stereo connector. The shielding isn't connected to anything the other end...
...but according to the iso adapter, its actually attached to the "signal ground" wire. I've checked and the cable is fine - did a continuity test on it etc. The ground line on the connector to the amp seems to be connected to the chassis too... but theres still no gnd/earth to the stereo? :wierd2:
I'll need to double check I think. Also a pain is the fact that I was looking for a brown wire, and there are in fact 3 in that particular section of wiring loom. A couple of grounds/earth, but I believe one is also the rear right speaker.... just to be a pain.
Left the stereo out for the moment, and put the old camry one in just to fill the hole. When I have a bit more time I'll check it out again.
Don't you just love car wiring? :roll:
fiz, did you get that clifford manual?
fiz, did you get that clifford manual?
I've just got the user manual - theres no options in there to disable the timer feature, or do much at all for that matter. I also haven't got the window auto-close or engine remote start options fitted either - its just the basic 300 model (with the timer circuit wired in).
Also seems that its more inclined to keep the iginition immolised rather than keep a circuit (which would make sense?) as otherwise it wouldn't be much of an anti-theft device. :roll:
Could it be something like a sticking/tempremental COR or something?
I'll keep my eye on things - I've taken the stereo out for now. If it happens again I'll have a bit more of a "play" to see if I can find out what keeping the ignition on.
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