MOT law and engine swaps [UK]

[LawrenceSelly]

It's 2am and it's literally keeping me awake.

If my car was registered in 1988, but the engine going in it was made in 2002.
What emissions test does it have to pass?

If it has to pass the 1988 emissions test, would a 4AGE reading be more than a k20a2 reading?

It's just puzzling as I've not got much room in my exhaust system, and I might have to try and squeeze a race cat in there too!

I've read lots of opinions but no actual fact, there is nothing in the guidelines regarding it.

Anyone able to shed some light on this?

Loz.

[Paul Woods]

Relax, no Cat required, it will be tested as an 88 so 3.5% CO.

[cdwood2010]

It's 2am and it's literally keeping me awake.

If my car was registered in 1988, but the engine going in it was made in 2002.
What emissions test does it have to pass?

If it has to pass the 1988 emissions test, would a 4AGE reading be more than a k20a2 reading?

It's just puzzling as I've not got much room in my exhaust system, and I might have to try and squeeze a race cat in there too!

I've read lots of opinions but no actual fact, there is nothing in the guidelines regarding it.

Anyone able to shed some light on this?

Loz.
Ask around and find a "classic friendly" mot station. You will hear lots of people telling of stand up fights with the MOT tester, but I've never had an emissions / cat issue with any engine swapped car.

In most cases if your engine is in good running order and setup correctly you're not going to have an issue anyway.

Now if you really want to worry about something, worry about sink holes. They get you when you're driving, they get you when you're sat watching TV, they get you at work, they get you while you sleep.

Way scarier than mot's 'n' shit!!!

Chris. :)

[LawrenceSelly]

Relax, no Cat required, it will be tested as an 88 so 3.5% CO.

Thanks Paul! That's what I wanted to hear!

Chris...

I've no words XD

I'm driving to Cambridge today and I know that place is literally sinking!

[Torero]

Can I pick your brains on this as well Paul.

Does this work the other way around i.e. if you put an '93 engine in a '96 car for example.

I believe the threshold for a cat was '95 but anything before is exempt, so on which criteria would it have to be tested? I've been advised that it would be by the age of the engine, if so why would Lawrence's be tested by the registration year? Just asking out of curiosity old chap. :thumbsup:

[Paul Woods]

It works the other way as well , so a 91 engine in a post 95 Car is still non cat test, they test on which is older, car or engine, and the cut off year for engine swapped cars is 95 instead of 92.

[Torero]

It works the other way as well , so a 91 engine in a post 95 Car is still non cat test, they test on which is older, car or engine, and the cut off year for engine swapped cars is 95 instead of 92.

Cheers Paul, more than clear now :thumbsup:

[Paul Woods]

It's how I have decoded the flow chart anyway, it's complicated to say the least!

[gavsdavs]

It works the other way as well , so a 91 engine in a post 95 Car is still non cat test, they test on which is older, car or engine, and the cut off year for engine swapped cars is 95 instead of 92.


The difficulty with this swap (older engine into newer car) is proving the age of the engine. There isn't usually a definitely record of the first use of an engine like there is for a VIN/Chassis.

IMOC/MR2OC members Gareth Dawson and Mark Shinn have put (pre-1995) rev3 turbos into rev5 N/A cars and (they have found) the onus is on the presenter to convince/prove to the tester that the engine is pre-1995.

[Paul Woods]

Yes that's true, the burden of proof is very much the owners responsibility, the headed letters we supply to customers go a long way towards that.

[Torero]

IMOC/MR2OC members Gareth Dawson and Mark Shinn have put (pre-1995) rev3 turbos into rev5 N/A cars and (they have found) the onus is on the presenter to convince/prove to the tester that the engine is pre-1995.
Yes that makes sense as it is a 'get out' clause to protect the tester/test centre.


Yes that's true, the burden of proof is very much the owners responsibility, the headed letters we supply to customers go a long way towards that.
I agree, even after a home build I kept as much of the donor documentation as I could including a photocopy of the V5 and the scrappage certificate which included the engine number and date of registration. I then got an engineers report (as Paul said on headed paper) to confirm that the installation was 'fit-for-purpose' and that not only supported the MOT but also the Insurance and engine registration with the DVLA.

In the great scheme of things it only cost me a couple of quid but it seems this is the way to go.

[cdwood2010]

I tend to keep everything from the donor car, any history, receipts, a copy of the log book etc. It stays with the MR2 from then on.

It's paid off a few times, and makes life a lot easier "proving" where the engine came from.

c.

[pbmr2]

thread revive..

so if I have no proof of engine age then the chassis will be the MOT test year. No problem.

How does one legally register the car once the engine has been swapped?

[Paul Woods]

Technically no home build engine conversion is legal, as the DVLA insist on the owner supplying a headed letter from the registered garage that carried out the conversion. They will not change the V5 details without that, of course it doesn't stop anyone from working around the system as everyone knows someone in the trade who can supply a letter for a fee, but by the letter of the law it is illegal.

I guess they are trying to stamp out shoddily built or dangerous cars as this never used to be the case going back years ago.

[cdwood2010]

Just going through this on a V6 swap with DVLA at the moment. Here's what those nice folks put in writing for me:-

To update our record with the change of vehicle details, you must provide one form of evidence from the list below:

*a receipt of purchase on headed paper, from a garage, confirming the engine number, engine size (cc) and the fuel type for the replacement engine
* an inspection report provided for insurance purposes
or
* written confirmation from the engine manufacturer showing the engine number and size.

If the vehicle's engine has been converted or the change took place before you bought the vehicle we will accept:

* written confirmation on headed paper from the garage that carried out the conversion,
or
* written confirmation of the change on headed paper from an independent garage.

My understanding is that if you have a document confirming the engine change, with details of the engine etc, from a reputable garage (which stands to reason they will want to see it and confirm what they are putting on paper for you) you shouldn't have any issues. They seem more concerned with the details being accurate than who actually did the conversion.

c.

[pbmr2]

Thank you both.

Hmm seems the V5 will have to wait till after the car has an MOT and a garage can see the car before being willing to put their name to official paperwork.
Still good reason to take it for an extended spin to a garage that knows MR2s :D

[gavsdavs]

Technically no home build engine conversion is legal, as the DVLA insist on the owner supplying a headed letter from the registered garage that carried out the conversion. They will not change the V5 details without that, of course it doesn't stop anyone from working around the system as everyone knows someone in the trade who can supply a letter for a fee, but by the letter of the law it is illegal.

I guess they are trying to stamp out shoddily built or dangerous cars as this never used to be the case going back years ago.

I re-registered mine with DVLA to new engine cc off the strength of the new engine number and a letter from JEM stating the work had been carried out to a satisfactory standard. JEM didn't charge, DVLA didn't put up a fight. It wasn't a back hander kind of thing.

Ideally best to go with the documents from the engine donor vehicle too as Chris has suggested.

https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-details-registration-certificate/what-evidence-to-give

[cdwood2010]

yeah i phoned them up today to chase one of the bodgewerks swaps, emailed some docs over to a nice welsh lady and it was done in minutes and i could check it online.

i know there has been talk of tightening up on fuckwit engine swaps, but judging on my experience recently, like today, so long as you can back it up with the right paperwork, a letter from a reputable garage and a sprinkle of charm, its about as hard as any other details change.

chris.

[Paul Woods]

Ok, when i said illegal i didn't mean the boys in blue were going to batter doors down, i meant that without official paperwork from a registered garage DVLA won't accept a home built engine conversion and i do have it from the horses mouth it very much is more to do with proper workmanship than identity.

Like i said though, everyone has their own workaround, i get two or three emails per week from people who have hit a wall with this and need a headed letter, the issue is very real.

[pbmr2]

I may well need to make a beer fund donation to you soon Paul, to get some decent looking paperwork for my build.

Sadly as the engine was a Jap import into the USA and then imported again to the UK, then the buyer pulled out and I stepped in, there is no paperwork for the hardware. The engine number is clear and not tampered with but aside from a Paypal receipt there is zero documentation.

The Car is a UK chassis with a clean past and has been my daily for a few years.
Spose you'd need some decent pictures of the car and the install to be confident enough to sign paperwork backing up the build. Shouldn't be an issue, I've cut no corners and know what's safe and what's a bodge.
If this rain keeps up it could be a while before it gets anywhere near needing paperwork! I theory it's only a few weekends of tinkering away from being finished, or at least finished enough to put through an MOT.

[cdwood2010]

Pretty much any reputable garage should be able to check and confirm your car is sound and the details are as stated. Most garages etc will want to see the car and inspect it if they are putting their name on paper for it.

Your usual MOT tester (if they know the car) may be worth asking, mine generally likes to take the car for a blast too "just to test it".

:)