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Torero
22-09-2016, 10:15
Hi Guys,

For sometime the MK3 has appealed to me, it's been a quiet admiration for quite while but since the MK2 has been sold I've become more serious about MK3 Roadster ownership. It's not that a rag top necessarily appeals to me, far from it I'd much prefer the comfort of a full chassis but there is a lot of fun to be had with these 'go-karts' that are lively, handle like they're on rails and ultimately cheap.

I've been scouring the InterWeb and find that they are stupidly low priced even for facelift models (post March '03) where the oval bore/precat issues have been sorted and they still are under 100k miles. With this being a predominantly seasonal ride and the winter fast approaching the costs are going to drop yet again and a decent 04/05 will probably come in for under 1.5K.

So really what I'd like your opinions on is the best engine swap for this beast. The 1.8vvti 1ZZ-FE it comes with is "vastly underpowered" (anecdotal only but many people I've spoken to share this opinion) so is it a V6 1MZ-FE or the usual 2ZZ-FE or maybe the beast that is the 2GR-FE should be considered. All of these have a bearing on the power delivery and balance of the car and the let's not forget that the 2ZZ can also be supercharged for around an additional 4k.

So what are your schools of thought on this if money wasn't the main issue but optimal performance is really what is wanted. By which I mean if all 4 engines are stood in front of you and you could choose one which would you go for and why.

Let's stick to engine specification for the moment and not pay to much attention to suspension, wheels, steering upgrades etc. as that can come later.

Thanks guys

John

Phaeton
22-09-2016, 13:07
John,

I know on your post you wanted to talk about engines, but having owned MK1, MK2 & MK3's the biggest issue I found that with the MK3 other than the woefully inadequate engine it was getting in & out. Okay i'm in my mid 50's had a motorcycle accident 40 years ago which affects my left leg marginly, slightly overweight, but in generally good health. I found it quite difficult to get out of due to the seat being lower than the cill level which means you have to push yourself up, something that you didn't have to do with either the MK1 or the MK2 even both had been lowered. My wife also found this difficult, hence why it didn't stay with us for very long. Not suggesting you don't get one, but please be aware of this, give it a try before you decide to make the plunge, living with it is different from just going for a test drive.

Alan..

Torero
22-09-2016, 13:23
John,

I know on your post you wanted to talk about engines, but having owned MK1, MK2 & MK3's the biggest issue I found that with the MK3 other than the woefully inadequate engine it was getting in & out. Okay i'm in my mid 50's had a motorcycle accident 40 years ago which affects my left leg marginly, slightly overweight, but in generally good health. I found it quite difficult to get out of due to the seat being lower than the cill level which means you have to push yourself up, something that you didn't have to do with either the MK1 or the MK2 even both had been lowered. My wife also found this difficult, hence why it didn't stay with us for very long. Not suggesting you don't get one, but please be aware of this, give it a try before you decide to make the plunge, living with it is different from just going for a test drive.

Alan..
Thanks for the advice Alan, I am aware of this and have considered it as I tried Pat Wood's car at JAE this month and it is a bit of a chore but not something that I consider a showstopper. Whilst I'm in my 50s and my wife is a good few years younger than me I a pretty sure I could live with this as it is just a weekend car.

Phaeton
22-09-2016, 13:57
Whilst I'm in my 50s and my wife is a good few years younger.
You lucky lucky man, Oh Um :(

cdwood2010
22-09-2016, 17:09
You lucky lucky man, Oh Um :(

It surprised me too, he's definitely punching above his weight.

:)

vinp182
22-09-2016, 18:04
I've never driven a V6'd mk3 so can't comment on that but the cutting of fire wall and subframe put me off that swap, I just couldn't bring myself to have that done to a car I've owned and loved for so long
I really like to 2zz conversion. I've done 2 now and the engine suits the chassis perfectly IMO

thomp1983
22-09-2016, 18:16
Sensible option is probably a 2zz swap in the first instance and if that isn't enough then a 2gr swap later

Goldy
22-09-2016, 18:21
I've been out in a 1zz turbo at Elvington and it was pretty rapid, it was easily faster than the mk2 turbos on track. I've not had a go in a 2zz roadster but I can see the weight advantage combined with the ease of swap would make it an appealing option over the 2gr. Over on the Celica forums there are some turbo'd ones on standard internals running around 300bhp!

vinp182
22-09-2016, 18:34
I ran a 1zz turbo in my mk3 for a couple of years and it was certainly quicker than a standard rev3 turbo but the 1zz doesn't really like mid to high boost :(

Goldy
22-09-2016, 18:38
I ran a 1zz turbo in my mk3 for a couple of years and it was certainly quicker than a standard rev3 turbo but the 1zz doesn't really like mid to high boost :(

I read that the pistons and rods are the weak link on the turbo'd 1zz the 2zz has stronger rods and can take a bit more power before blowing up!

Torero
23-09-2016, 09:28
I've never driven a V6'd mk3 so can't comment on that but the cutting of fire wall and subframe put me off that swap, I just couldn't bring myself to have that done to a car I've owned and loved for so long
I really like to 2zz conversion. I've done 2 now and the engine suits the chassis perfectly IMO Thanks Vinny, you were actually one of the people I was going to PM on this as I've seen the race car and guessed you be able to give some sound advice.

I've also spoken to Pat (Headcase) and he recommended the 2ZZ because the weight and power delivery is better than the V6 lumps, he even said that he was giving Andy (Ayresyboy) a good run for his money when on the European trip when Andy had his 2GR and Pat had the 2ZZ and I have to agree I really want to drop a replacement in with little or no chassis mods. Also, Pat told me the same that the engine and chassis are a perfect match, so thanks for that :thumbsup:


Sensible option is probably a 2zz swap in the first instance and if that isn't enough then a 2gr swap later My thoughts exactly Chris, there is plenty of call for a decent 2ZZ so I wouldn't lose out on it and with talk of the 2GR bundle dropping in price it's something to look at for the future. As with all TB cars they are simply 'projects on wheels':icon_wink:


I read that the pistons and rods are the weak link on the turbo'd 1zz the 2zz has stronger rods and can take a bit more power before blowing up! Same here, the power is much the same in both lumps low down but the 2ZZ is picks up from the mid range which is probably all I'd need for spirited road use as it won't be a track car. Once again the option of supercharging will give better low down power for regular driving but I can't help thinking that 4000 on top of the purchase price and engine swap can be justified for what is ultimately a runabout.

With the supercharger there is also the constant whine to consider but I've been in a car with Chris several times so I should easily overcome it :icon_razz:

Any other advice is welcomed, please keep the info coming guys. :thumbsup:

cdwood2010
23-09-2016, 09:35
Patrick (my bro) has not shut up about the 2ZZ conversion. He laughs at how much i spent on the 2GR build by comparison, and someone he spoke to with a Mk3 2GR said that if they had tried a 2ZZ before that, they would have gone that route instead.

Buy a Mk3, buy a T Sport, bring them here, bring Doombar. :)

c.

Torero
23-09-2016, 09:54
Buy a Mk3, buy a T Sport, bring them here, bring Doombar. :)

c.Nuff said, I'm on my way.

ya_crow
24-09-2016, 19:42
If you want any help drinking the Doombar or breaking stuff give me a shout. I'm well practiced at both.

Torero
24-09-2016, 19:50
If you want any help drinking the Doombar or breaking stuff give me a shout. I'm well practiced at both.

Cheers Patrick, let's party on.

Phaeton
24-09-2016, 19:55
Buy a Mk3, buy a T Sport

You also get a really nice pair of seats to put in the MK3

Torero
24-09-2016, 20:33
You also get a really nice pair of seats to put in the MK3It has already been noticed Alan :thumbsup:

Was contacted by someone today who is removing 2zz engine, gearbox , ECU loom etc from his MK3 to return his 1ZZ for turboing for race purposes. So watch this space.

cabbydave
25-09-2016, 11:27
If you have all the bits ready to go you can do the conversion in a day as well. No welding its just bolt off bolt on.

Torero
25-09-2016, 19:30
If you have all the bits ready to go you can do the conversion in a day as well. No welding its just bolt off bolt on. It should be Dave even if you upgrade the exhaust header and modify the exhaust but I'd most likely want to fit the LSD from the MK3 host gearbox. That said, I'd still imagine it could be done in 2 days max even when allowing for Doombar moments.

cabbydave
25-09-2016, 20:35
That shouldn't be a problem providing you have all the bits Headcase sells bridge mount, Manifold maf housing etc he even has the bungs and 27mm core plug in stock. Are you using a 6 speed box if not you will need the gearchange selector off one

Torero
26-09-2016, 08:05
Yes Dave, if I go with what's been offered to me then it will be a 6 speed box.