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Phaeton
12-04-2015, 20:04
We all know I'm a dreamer & as always it will probably never happen but things are changing & it may free up some funds for a transplant. The clear easiest is the 2ZZ route, I've read up on it, there are a few confusing things over on the ROC forum & a couple arguing about exactly what is needed, but I'm pretty sure I can get around those issues. But I'm not sure that a 2ZZ really floats my boat, unless of course it got turbo'd next year, I've seen a few posts about turbo Celica's so it must be possible.

But the lure of the V6 is ever present, we had a 2.3 Grandad quite a few number ago & that was so smooth to drive. However there is not a great deal of information about what is needed to put a V6 in a MK3 unless of course I'm looking in the wrong place. I've picked up snippets, but nowhere is the whole hog like the write-up Paul did on the first 1.5 many years ago.

So here is what I do know bearing in mind I cannot afford the lovely 2GR engine that is sat doing nothing in Durham.

The engine of choice will have to be the 1MZ mated to a MK2 N/A gearbox with some work needed to the flywheel, it can have an extended 5th gear put in from an Avensis?? & I think it can have the LSD from the MK3 fitted.
Driveshafts No idea
Bearing Carrier No idea
Hubs No idea
Rear Subframe Needs to have a slot cut in it, I'm presuming this is for the gearbox & also for an exhaust manifold/pipe
To aid servicing in the future a access panel needs to go in the firewall so plugs can be changed without dropping engine
Engine mounts, these appear to be bolt in, so is it a matter of hanging the engine in a 3D-4D maze & then pick up the points?
The engine will have to run it's own ECU that comes from the Camry & the MK3 ECU will remain to power the dash, I have seen no wiring diagrams just it mentioned.
The rear crossmember has to be modified for clearance (presumably)

So if anyone has anything constructive which can assist me I will/would be most grateful.

Jiff Lemon
12-04-2015, 20:09
From memory (and happy to be corrected)
Mk2 N/a gearbox, with MK3 diff and extended 5th.
Mk2 Driveshafts fitted into Mk3 hubs, build/modify your bearing carrier.

The hard parts are:
Upper rear crossmember needs redesigning for clearance. Access panel for front bank. Hanging the damn thing.

Still, I did my Mk1 V6 long before the jig was available, so it can be done with a bit of patience.

thomp1983
12-04-2015, 20:47
If you honestly want to make this swap happen forget the fancy box for the interim just put a bog standard s54 in. A lsd diff and the 2 cogs required for the extended 5th will cost you 400 or more, taking a gearbox to bits isn't for the faint hearted i did mine, but only as i had a spare box and got the diff for 60 i did the extended 5th after rebuilding everything else and was happy it would work so i would only of been down 60 if it went wrong.

Go with a normal s54, if you can manage to get a working v6 over the finish line doing a gearbox swap at a later date will be no issue

cdwood2010
12-04-2015, 21:36
Not even sure i would bother with n LSD. Find a cheap camry, 500-1000, S54 box (cheap on ebay all the long day), Woorsport mount, some welding up, a decent clutch, the rest is tinkering. I reckon with a bit of input from on here, under 1000 is achievable.

Never done a Mk3, but i'm pretty sure ChrisT, meself and probably others can help out with the heavy lifting. If you wait for an ideal alignment of planets, you will never do it.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2015/04/198.jpg

Phaeton
12-04-2015, 22:45
The hard parts are:
Upper rear crossmember needs redesigning for clearance. Access panel for front bank. Hanging the damn thing.

Yep I see these as the deal breakers, 1 & 2 are not tooooo bad but it's 3 that concerns me. Do MK2 driveshafts fit straight into MK3 hubs?



If you honestly want to make this swap happen forget the fancy box for the interim just put a bog standard s54 in. A lsd diff and the 2 cogs required for the extended 5th will cost you 400 or more, taking a gearbox to bits isn't for the faint hearted i did mine, but only as i had a spare box and got the diff for 60 i did the extended 5th after rebuilding everything else and was happy it would work so i would only of been down 60 if it went wrong.

Go with a normal s54, if you can manage to get a working v6 over the finish line doing a gearbox swap at a later date will be no issue

I didn't figure on doing the box myself TBH, I only thought about the LSD as I already have that in the car at the moment


Find a cheap camry, 500-1000, S54 box (cheap on ebay all the long day), Woorsport mount, some welding up, a decent clutch, the rest is tinkering. I reckon with a bit of input from on here, under 1000 is achievable.

Never done a Mk3, but i'm pretty sure ChrisT, meself and probably others can help out with the heavy lifting. If you wait for an ideal alignment of planets, you will never do it.

Have found a Camry well been offered it for 500 with MOT, if it can be done for 1K that would be phenomenal, I just need to get to the end of this month before anything can happen, but I can now start looking out for a NA box & a couple of driveshafts

Jiff Lemon
12-04-2015, 22:56
Do MK2 driveshafts fit straight into MK3 hubs?

If they don't, it'll be that the shafts fit the MK3 joints. You've got ABS to consider....

Grenade
12-04-2015, 23:33
Not even sure i would bother with n LSD. Find a cheap camry, 500-1000, S54 box (cheap on ebay all the long day), Woorsport mount, some welding up, a decent clutch, the rest is tinkering. I reckon with a bit of input from on here, under 1000 is achievable.

Never done a Mk3, but i'm pretty sure ChrisT, meself and probably others can help out with the heavy lifting. If you wait for an ideal alignment of planets, you will never do it.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2015/04/198.jpg

Agreed. Come on in, the water is surprisingly warm for this time of year.

Paul Woods
13-04-2015, 07:45
I don't know where to start....

Celica St202 gearbox, not Mr2 S54.
Mk3 shafts
Custom axle bearing carrier bracket (you have to make this)
Right chassis mount needs making, plates welded in and WS mount
Left chassis rail needs no welding, but needs custom hanger bracket (again needs making)
Gearshift linkage is extremely complicated, it's a hybrid Mk3 selector assembly modified to fit onto the St202 gearbox.
Right chassis rail and strut tower need clearance
Engine lid slam panel needs mods
Wiring is a nightmare, both original and V6 ECU need running in tandem to keep both engine and dash happy.
EFI coolant sensor housing for original 1zz ECU needs making.
Custom gear cable holders.
Subframe mods.
Radiator pipework to the engine is difficult.
Radiator needs upgrading, stock won't cope.
Exhaust manifolds need making/modifying.
Probably lots more i've forgot right now.

I would honestly say a V6 Mk3 is beyond the average homebuilder, i hate saying that because i do them routinely, but fact is a V6 Mk3 is in a completely different league to a relatively plug in V6 Mk2.

In short it's a ten spanner rating out of five.

Phaeton
13-04-2015, 22:47
Well that pissed on my bonfire :praise2: no seriously that is good info, lots to think about, but when it comes to 5 spanners that just about describes me :)

thomp1983
13-04-2015, 22:58
Im sure paul would hold your hand through it. If you can get one hung i think that would be you well on the road

Paul Woods
14-04-2015, 06:57
Unfortunately just getting it to hung stage is a major mission, the Mk3 V6 really is putting an engine in a hole where it really doesn't want to go, just about everything needs modifying to work..... i'll help where i can though.

nads1978
14-04-2015, 07:30
Mine has an S54, which only differs from the St202 (correct me if I'm wrong), by having the gear selector linkage to the fwd end of the gearbox, the St 202 has it at the rear. While Paul has perfected an elegant solution utilising the MK3 shifter for the St 202 box, using a modified mk2 linkage on S54 is probably easier to achieve at home.

I have some wiring diagrams I made from tracing my looms, I hope to have it completed before my car is on the road in the coming weeks. You can copy all you need from that, however, my CEL has no bulb, because it's always on (according to previous owner), something I hope to rectify in future.

Axle bearing bracket - I'll draw mine up, while its off the car.

The crossmember/subframe mods are fairly simple, although my recent one (see other thread) where I made clearance for the manifold, probably can be avoided by using the fwd manifold on the rear, or extending the existing manifold, so the joint is further under the crossmember. Not adjacent to it.

My right hand engine mount is probably not as elegant as Paul's, but I don't think there is a plate welded to the chassis.

Plus, anytime you need to check something, I get the excuse to go for a drive.

nads1978
12-05-2015, 18:07
Here are a few pics covering some of your questions.

All engine/gearbox mounts (to be cleaned/rebushed [is rebushed a word?!] if necessary):

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2015/05/91.jpghttp://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2015/05/92.jpghttp://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2015/05/93.jpghttp://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2015/05/94.jpghttp://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2015/05/95.jpghttp://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2015/05/96.jpghttp://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2015/05/97.jpghttp://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2015/05/98.jpghttp://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2015/05/99.jpghttp://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2015/05/100.jpg

Standard(?) RHS mount point
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2015/05/101.jpg

Hatch
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2015/05/102.jpg