MK3 Power Steering Issue

[Phaeton]

Just bought our first MK3 although we have had 6+ MK1's & a MK2 Turbo in the past.

It failed the MOT on no power steering, been doing some reading/searching but not found the answer to this question even over on mr2roc.org, when the ignition is switched on the P/S light comes on then a few seconds later goes off. If I switch on the ignition & listen behind the offside headlight where I believe the PS pump is I can't hear it running is this normal? or does the engine have to be running before it starts?

Going to look at the U/J, fluid level, leaking pipes etc. but want to start the troubleshooting at the pump.

Alan...

[cdwood2010]

Hi Alan,

On the Mk2's at least the relay is a good place to start. If the light comes on and goes off maybe it thinks its working ok? Also on the Mk2 there's a solenoid on top of the PS ECU.

Usual stuff, check connections, check voltages etc.

c.

[Phaeton]

Thanks Chris, I seemed to remember on the MK2 that you had to start the engine before you got PS but at my age I seem to remember lots of things that didn't happen & forgot things that did.

Alan...

[Jiff Lemon]

Shall check shortly; But think engine needs to be running

[Torero]

If it's similar to the MK2 then there should be a relay somewhere in the frunk/footwell, it's worth checking this as well.

[Jiff Lemon]

Just checked at Lunch, engine needs to be running.

[Phaeton]

Cheers Jiff, that would be why I couldn't hear it the morning :rofl: Can't wait to get home for a play even though it might be costly if the pump is goosed.

Alan...

[Jiff Lemon]

Plenty of spares about at the moment.

We did a thread somewhere about the usual things to look for when getting a Mk3, just like any car, some things are worse than others.
Grab yourself a cheapo code reader from ebay too, very worthwhile.

[Phaeton]

So nothing happening on the PS pump front, tried to take it apart & the motor was full of carbon dust from the wear on the brushes (HUGE amount), but what I couldn't work out was how to get the armature out. Looks like the brushes are on a plastic insulated plate & I can see the fixing screws but I don't see anyway to get to them.

The brushes are in the bottom of here
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2014/09/80.jpg (http://s78.photobucket.com/user/gsx550es/media/BlackMK3/IMAG0518.jpg.html)

This is the control board no idea what any of it does, was hoping to find wires that went to the actaul motor to test it
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2014/09/81.jpg (http://s78.photobucket.com/user/gsx550es/media/BlackMK3/IMAG0521.jpg.html)

This is after you have removed the resevior was hoping to see something that held on the armature in place
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2014/09/82.jpg (http://s78.photobucket.com/user/gsx550es/media/BlackMK3/IMAG0519.jpg.html)

This is the part number if anyone has one laying around/
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2014/09/83.jpg (http://s78.photobucket.com/user/gsx550es/media/BlackMK3/IMAG0522.jpg.html)

Are there any wiring diagrams anywhere?

Alan...

[Phaeton]

Grab yourself a cheapo code reader from ebay too, very worthwhile.

Any recommendations? It also failed on high emissions 'Exhaust emissions carbon monoxide content after 2nd fast idle excessive' put a friends reader on & it found no codes.

Alan...

[headcase]

Alan clean maf out. Maf will not allways put a code on

[headcase]

The pump will shut down if it detects an overcurrent or overheat condition. For the fault to appear after 10s, either the pump is drawing over 100A or the motor temperature sensor has exceeded 200C.

The same will happen if the ECU detects that the motor voltage is much less than the supply voltage, as it will trip after 10s. The fault could either be in the ECU (switch open circuit) or the motor (short).

Another fault is that the ECU will shut down the system if the control power is lost. It might be worth checking that there is voltage on pin 1 (Black/Red wire) of the ECU

It's not the speed signal as the car has to be moving (over 12 mph) for that to trip

If you short pins 4 and 13 on the diagnostic connector and then turn on the ignition, after 4 seconds, the PS light will flash to indicate the fault code. They are 2 digit. Count the short flashes for each digit, the medium sized gap is between digits and the longer gap is between codes. Lowest number code is output first

[Phaeton]

Thanks Patrick, is that the diagnostic port under the dashboard on the right hand side?

Pretty sure it's the brushes that have gone just waiting for a replacement pump before I butcher this one further

Alan...

[headcase]

Thanks Patrick, is that the diagnostic port under the dashboard on the right hand side?

Pretty sure it's the brushes that have gone just waiting for a replacement pump before I butcher this one further

Alan...
Yes Alan
The diagnostic port is the usual one to the right of the steering column (UK car) for engine codes etc. Pin 16 is bottom right, pin 9 bottom left, pin 8 top right, pin 1 top left. Pin 4 is ground, so just shorting pin 13 to any earthed point should activate the display function

[Jiff Lemon]

Any recommendations? It also failed on high emissions 'Exhaust emissions carbon monoxide content after 2nd fast idle excessive' put a friends reader on & it found no codes.

Alan...

I use this (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Supoer-Mini-ELM327-V1-5-Bluetooth-ODB2-Car-Scanner-Torque-Android-Auto-Scan-Tool-/121273145316?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item1c3c7157e4) with torque (free version) on an android phone. If your in the i-world, things can be a little more tricky I believe, but given how cheap you can pick up an android device these days, its worth having one JUST for the torque app!

[Phaeton]

Cheers again Patrick, Jiff are you suggesting I bat for the other side I hope you rinsed your mouth after mentioning that nasty word 😁

Allan

[cdwood2010]

IPhones don't work with bluetooth very well. I got myself an android phone and a Nexus 7 tablet. I use an android app called Scannator along with a couple of others. Pretty neat.

C.

[Phaeton]

IPhones don't work very well.

C.

I have corrected that for you Chris

Bluetooth jobby ordered

Alan...

[snowtigger]

I won an hks ob reader Bluetooth job from beating up a few people at the jousting at jae, as said iPhone was crap pairing up so went to tesco and bought a tesco hudl £99 works great haven't tried torque yet.
As a billy bonus I can now be lazy and order tesco shit using the built in tesco button

[cdwood2010]

Here's mine.....

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2014/01/38.jpg

Using Carista - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.prizmos.carista&hl=en_GB

And a bit of Scanator Android - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=mx.com.scanator&hl=en_GB

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2014/01/41.jpg

[snowtigger]

That's cool Chris going to see if it works with the hks link?

[Phaeton]

So I said I was going to wait till the replacement pump to arrive before I stripped it any further but patience is not something I am good at, so tonight I pushed on.

Removed the pump

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2014/09/102.jpg (http://s78.photobucket.com/user/gsx550es/media/BlackMK3/IMAG0523.jpg.html)

Then the vane, this shows the end of the armature

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2014/09/103.jpg (http://s78.photobucket.com/user/gsx550es/media/BlackMK3/IMAG0524-1.jpg.html)

So a brass drift later & a swift tap with a lump hammer we have

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2014/09/104.jpg (http://s78.photobucket.com/user/gsx550es/media/BlackMK3/IMAG0525-1.jpg.html)

And

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2014/09/105.jpg (http://s78.photobucket.com/user/gsx550es/media/BlackMK3/IMAG0526.jpg.html)

And

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2014/09/106.jpg (http://s78.photobucket.com/user/gsx550es/media/BlackMK3/IMAG0528.jpg.html)

So looking at length of the brushes left it appears they will have enough tension but the wear on the commutator is quite bad

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2014/09/107.jpg (http://s78.photobucket.com/user/gsx550es/media/BlackMK3/IMAG0527.jpg.html)

But I'm now at the end of my knowledge, not sure if it can be repaired.

Alan.

[headcase]

That is bad you could try recutting the groves and turn down the end and see if it works you got nothing to lose :) might get you out a hole untill you can find a good one . but personel i put that in the scrap bin .

[headcase]

if you not sure alan if you send to me i do it for you foc :)
patrick

[Phaeton]

Thanks Patrick, I've got another 2nd hand unit but it looks like this is a common fault with them, it would be good to get a solution, there is an auto electrical place near where I work that advertises rewinding & work for vintage cars so going to drop in there & see what they say, but thanks for the offer may still take you up in the future.

Alan...