View Full Version : JB's V6 build
Well I am now breaking my 2nd Camry since I found the first engine needed more money input than I hoped. For those who need to know about the costs I paid 650 for the first and got back about 800. The second was 450 and I have sold 500 worth of parts so far but probably should make 800 again. I believe Paul bought his for 100 and made 900 :x
Having no pit or ramp I was a bit concerned when I started about removing an engine etc given the slope of my drive, but actually its not been too bad.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/06/6.jpg
The exhaust downpipes come off the manifolds easily but not the rest of the exhaust when you are lying under it so off in one. Bit big for the Mk1 but getting rid off all those tortuous pipes and boxes should free up some HP
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/06/7.jpg
Once you have removed the millions of pipes the engine comes out quite easily especially if you remove the top crossmember and battery tray, 2mins with hacksaw. Engine then can be lifted 6" instead of 2ft which helps if doing it under a garage door
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/06/8.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/06/9.jpg
What a lovely lump
Next is off with auto box and on with Fidanza flywheel, GT4clutch and E153 gearbox and Paul's your uncle a 3.0 litre V6 manual
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/48.jpg
MegatronUK
06-06-2005, 22:12
Six cylinder Toyota goodness!
:D
My word that standard exhaust system is big! I think you're right... a nice custom downpipe should improve power no end.
sunsetaw11
07-06-2005, 06:37
how can you came across car like that for this little money overhere car like this cost 4000$ canadian and have like 200000km and are rusted???
Paul Woods
07-06-2005, 07:17
jesus! $4000!! JB we need to start exporting camrys!
Sunset they are gas guzzling barges that nobody wants over here,they dont hold any value to be honest, so good ones can be had for around ?500,that is what makes the V6 swap so tempting,nice cheap donors!
JB that seems to be going a lot smoother than the first time....all looking good so far,by the way will you part with one of your plastic covers from the top of the engine? y'know the bit that says v6 four cam etc ,i chopped mine to make a Supercharger version but wouldnt mind a standard one,no probs if not theres a few in the scrappies near by :D
You cant be far away from putting it in now? have you got the supra pump in yet? i hate that job!
Driftin_AW
07-06-2005, 07:26
You cant be far away from putting it in now? have you got the supra pump in yet? i hate that job!
I almost would prefer to cut the top of the tunnel off to remove the bloody thing!
sunsetaw11
07-06-2005, 14:45
so youre saying to me that i was born in the wrong country ???
Huh Woods you'll be asking for the roof off my Mk1 next because you've chopped yours up :roll: :lol:
Sure you can have a cover but remind me if I forget to send it, oh and mail me your address.
Yeah there are some excellent Camrys around for silly money here but in Canada at least you should be able to get a manual flywheel. There are none here so we have had to import from USA.
Once the Camry has gone I will be getting on to the Mk1, pump, engine mount chop and rear suspension are first jobs.
:idea: :?: BTW when fitting the driveshafts is it best to detach the lower control links to swing the hub carrier out?
Paul Woods
07-06-2005, 18:18
good man JB! you have a PM with my address.
Yeah just look out for the "ive had to weld my roof back on thread" !
BTW when fitting the driveshafts is it best to detach the lower control links to swing the hub carrier out? Indeed! thats probably the best way,i think i pivoted the hub on its lower shocker mounting bolt just taking the top one out to allow the shafts to slide in....one word of caution though,dont let the inner CV joint outer casing snag on anything ,if it does it pushed the joint out the back and you end up with ball bearings on your garage floor! first time i tried to repack an E153 driveshaft CV joint took about 2 hours!
Just an update which may be of interest to other potential V6ers. The engine sat on the floor, removed complete with loom.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/06/35.jpg
Other bits to keep are fairly obvious like the coil and igniter. The loom has a branch which goes, behind the battery, into the main fusebox on the passenger side of the engine compartment. This can be unplugged from the bottom of the fusebox, which itself can be discarded.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/06/36.jpg
While you are under the battery tray don?t forget to keep this little fella. It?s a vacuum tank presumably there to hold as little as possible!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/06/37.jpg
The loom passes through the rear firewall into the ECU which is accessed by removing the glove box (where we all keep our gloves) trying not to cause any collateral damage! The COR also lives here ( position shown by screwdriver) and must be kept once you have excavated the little bugger.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/50.jpg
This end of the loom is pulled through after unplugging it of course! The three plugs top right are the ECU a, b, and c plugs. The others connect to cruise control, air con etc etc etc.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/06/38.jpg
Here?s the COR. Haynes says the fuel pump wire is blue/black but on the two cars I?ve broken it?s red/black ? the fat one on the right.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/06/39.jpg
The other item to salvage while in the passenger seat is the ECU d plug which connects to the main loom inside the car and has to be chopped out. This 22pin plug has 16 wires coming from it. Haynes does not show them all but with the help of the Toyota 3VZFE repair manual and a meter I managed to find out where they all went. Only 8 or 9 of these wires need to be connected to the Mk1 loom
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/06/40.jpg
Camry no 2 is now ready to go to the scrappy. I am just into profit on it with plenty of bits still to sell so at last I can turn my attention to the Mk1 and chase after all you guys out in front. :P
Paul Woods
13-06-2005, 06:31
good progress JB,yes have a look at that harness you wimpy 3s boys! you think you got a lot to wire up and sort out??!! take pity on us poor v6'ers! believe it or not theres only about 10-15 wires to connect up and its easier to wire than a 3s,but neither are hard.
Remember JB,do not trust the pin locations on plug D in that haynes manual,they are horribly wrong,the colours are correct though,just the wire locations that dont match up.
Cant wait to see it going in...tight is not a good enough word!
Paul any chance you can give me some dimensions for the cut out in the cross member to clear the rear lamda sensor. Seems like it would be easy to do at an early stage before I try the engine in. I plan to do the suspension before engine so thought could do it while sorting the anti roll bar.
Paul Woods
13-06-2005, 16:18
yep no probs at all JB,i will get the measurements for the cut out tomorrow for you....good thinking,ten times easier with no engine in!
Well folks just a brief update. Not a lot to report, busy at work this time of year so progress slow!
Also the F*****G B******S have sacked me from half my job :x :x :cry: :evil:
Sorry chaps I needed to say that somewhere.
So now I am only working 2.5 days a week, about the same as Paul I guess :) so perhaps I'll make quicker progress. Maybe angle grinding and FBHing will be good therapy.
Back in the real world for those considering a V6 the 4AGE oil pressure sender needs fitting to the block. As you can see in the picture the existing switch is small and tucked between the dipstick and oil "cooler" so the big 4AGE sender won't fit straight in. Now Paul with his usual welding wizardry fabricated a curved stalk for the sender here. He fitted a banjo where the plug (yellow dots) is for his turbo (now supercharger?) oil feed. I elected to use this for the sender and made an adaptor 3/8"BSP tapered male to 1/8"BSP female. A Tpiece could be used here to provide an oil feed as well as sender I guess. There is also a plug on the pump body(brown dots) but this is before the filter and maybe its better to look at oil pressure after filter. The blue ring shows where an unused lug has to be relieved to clear the sender rim.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/06/57.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/06/58.jpg
I am now ?250 in profit on 2nd Camry with gearbox still to go.
The manifold plates are ready for Lily so expect a package soon Paul
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/06/59.jpg
Paul Woods
24-06-2005, 06:29
wow! those plates are far too professional looking...i'll be scared to take my MIG to them! they are the business JB.
Your oil pressure adapter is much better than mine,a far neater solution all round really!
those look lurverly. :shock: .i am so impressed by the engineering i see by the TB members..this has to be the best place on the whole interweb..
on a sidenote, with the 3sgte we just swap the mk2 pressure sender for a mk1 sender dont we..? i got asked and couldnt remember..
Paul Woods
24-06-2005, 07:16
yes you just fit the mk1 sender into the mk2 location,however you need to chop 1" off the engine lifting hook bracket that sits beside it so that the mk1 sender fits in...took me 2 days to work out why i had no oil pressure....duh!
Driftin_AW
24-06-2005, 13:38
just remove the whole hook. It's just extra weight, and who needs an engine hook once the engine is in anyway?
Besides, I found I had to jack one end of the engine and lift using the cambelt end hook to get the engine to go in, so I didn't even use that hook :)
Well I think I've cracked the Camry habit, not bought one for 3 months and stopped viewing them on ebay :oops:
Progress on MR2
Tank out -pump change- tank back-worn hair off back of head :x
Engine mounts chopped-no return now :lol:
Boot firewall out when I get back from hols-it will only let in water if I do it now.
Suspension next-keep it simple for now SW20 rear struts and KYB shocks on front.
Paul I'm thinking of keeping engine and boot lids seperate as both hinge mounts are unaffected and it may be possible to keep water out of boot with new firewall. I'll need to find a way of securing engine lid shut, maybe with release from inside boot. What do you reckon?
Paul Woods
04-07-2005, 07:08
what about just with simple bonnet pins? one each side? or you not a fan of those? i thought about keeping them separate too,just thought it would be cool to see the whole back open up!
You could always design your own cable release catch? bonnet pins is the simple way though.
Having been on holiday I've now got back to work.
I stripped the rear suspension to fit a pair of Mk2 struts but found the shockers were knackered so instead bought a set of four KYBs. The rears are fitted and polybushes done + black smoothrite 8)
I am going to try to fit the engine from underneath to find out if its possible. If it is it will mean it is possible to remove the engine and box together in future because, as Paul found, once the gearbox mount is welded in the box won't come out upwards. The only snag is that to get the engine in from underneath the suspension mounts need to be off cos they overlap into the bottom of the engine bay!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/08/13.jpg
Although the engine was running sweetly it had some oil leaks, so I've replaced camshaft and front crank seals and cam cover gaskets. The cam covers were so clagged up I reckon it wasn't breathing properly so fingers crossed now its all been cleaned top and bottom.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/08/14.jpg
I had picked up a new water pump off ebay recently?40 and new cambelt?3.75 so fitted those. The scaffold tube in the picture, after facing off on the lathe, was the perfect size for fitting all three oil seals.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/08/15.jpg
To avoid having to cut a notch in the rear crossmember I am relocating the rear oxygen sensor into the downpipe just below the manifold so in the pic you can see the blanking plate to close the hole in the manifold. You can also see the casting which supports the driveshaft with the redundant rubber mount removed and the casting tidied up.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/08/16.jpg
Next is fitting flywheel, clutch and gearbox, rebuild driveshafts and then try lifting car onto engine with 10mm clearance front/back :?
lodgeman
18-08-2005, 22:36
how are you going about the firewall- are you removing it like paul or are you just removing a small part?
thinking of keeping some of it if engine goes in from underneath but not sure how much - suck it and see :P
if engine has to go in from top it will all have to go :lol:
keep you posted
yo Jb, that engine is looking rather attractive now :D and them mani flanges i saw back there.. luverly stuff :wink: regular mild or cast i?
Thanks Adam
The flanges for Paul were MS, he's planning to weld his own pipes in.
what do you have planned for your mk1 Jb, other than that there V6? let me recall!.. wilwood toasters.. corrado disc.. 15" alloys.. fidanza lightened ally fly.. ah...suspension.. forgive me for bieng rude ..i'm too inquisitive.. what have you planned suspension wise ? any other mods?..
lodgeman
23-08-2005, 00:33
in the top of your picture you have cleaned and painted the brackets that all the rear suspension bolts to. my nsr one has rusted through and i need to get a replacement but heres the problem - what are they called? i dont know what to ask for. anybody help? by the way didnt get that flywheel somebody wanted it more than me- will try on another one i found :(
Gary Symons
23-08-2005, 07:30
in the top of your picture you have cleaned and painted the brackets that all the rear suspension bolts to. my nsr one has rusted through and i need to get a replacement but heres the problem - what are they called? i dont know what to ask for. anybody help? by the way didnt get that flywheel somebody wanted it more than me- will try on another one i found :(
Anyone with the toyota EPC cd should be able to give you the toyota part number. I will have a look tonight if no one else can help in the meantime.
Adam - wheels are 16" TSW Apex I don't think the Willwood/Corrado combi will fit under 15s. The only suspension change is KYB shocks all round, no lowering or stiffening because I need to get in car without my false hip dislocating or teeth dropping out :? No other changes yet; Its going to be a sleeper, so I can drive slowly out into the country on Sundays and sleep in it :wink:
Lodge - wait for it - its called a "suspension mount" :roll: :lol:
Tough luck on the flywheel it looked a good un
lodgeman
23-08-2005, 09:37
#-o
Now fitted Fidanza flywheel and GT4 clutch and in doing so discovered that Pauls 4runner flywheel is probably thicker than the 3VZFE and 1MZFE flywheels and also that the crankshaft flange was also thinner on these two.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/08/17.jpg
So if you are using a 4runner flywheel use the bolts on the right but they need shortening a bit, but if you have a Camry manual flywheel you will need the Camry bolts (in the middle) 22mm long, no shortening. The LH bolt is the auto flexplate bolt just for comparison.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/08/18.jpg
So engine is now a manual :D :D
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/08/19.jpg
Both the Camry and Mk2 starters have the same reach and throw and engage correctly without a spacer :D
So I guess you could use either (Camry is the shorter one)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/08/20.jpg
My next problem is my Mk1 is on my sloping drive on axle stands with no rear suspension. The only level ground is in the garage for fitting the engine and I need the suspension off to get the engine in from underneath :? Guess I'll have to lift the backend on the crane and wheel the whole lot back into the garage with my missus steering :shock:
Paul Woods
31-08-2005, 14:15
coming along very nicely now JB,wont be long before shes in the bay growling at you.
great conversion. hmm.. nice light flywheel, new clutch, and a torque'y v6 thundering round.. what d/shafts & outers are you going to use?
Driveshafts ST185 Adam
Be interesting to see how the engine/flywheel combo works out :shock: :D
Paul Woods
01-09-2005, 17:23
JB....quick thought for you.....what are we going to do if these v6's end up being crap??? :lol: i mean what if they just lumber around and pendulum all over the place with the weight? :shock: not that im expecting that of course but it occurred to me both you and alan(lodgeman) are building v6's on no more than the fact that i have been daft enough to do it? in this respect the pair of you are barmier than i am!!! ive got no one to blame if it turns out badly!
Personally i think they will be stonking and we should be well up the strip before these laggy turbo girls manage to spool off the line :lol: ...having said that the last 1/8th of a mile will be a mirror full of 1.5!
Nik i was thinking some cool rear window stickers might go down well.....something witty like "The car in front is TwoBrutal" id be up for one of those.....er if i had a rear window :lol:
Yeah Paul I reckon we'll toast em with 300ftlb constant and instant from 1500 to 6000rpm :twisted: :lol: 3rd gear 0-120 :P
Orrr on the other hand :? you in your flexi canvas boy scout water bucket may not reach a ton and me with me ali flywheel may be stood still in a cloud o rubber smoke :x
It's certainly quite a project with sourcing all the bits seperately and riskier than transplanting the whole turbo lot from a clip which was running. I have no idea whether my box will be any good :?
Great seeing everyone else's progress too and Lodge squirelling bits into his shed. :lol: I reckon hes a definite for becoming a compulsive Camry breaker :lol:
hey jb, i had a few niggles with my CV joints from parts in a box, they sent me OJ-0220 which dint fit .. the turbo shaft was too big to go into the OJ-0220 female. Ive now been advised the right part number was OJ-0220/30
the hof ..*jingle.."he's so special..lah" says you had similar troubles..?
p.s.. you guys will defo be first off the line, it wouldnt be any fun without giving a head start :wink:
David Sleith
01-09-2005, 20:49
Excellent idea for the sticker. I'd take one of those
lodgeman
01-09-2005, 22:17
dont tell me the transplant god is having second thoughts? :wink: if it isnt any quicker i will have a heavy mantlepiece ornament :lol:
lodgeman
01-09-2005, 23:49
re-the driveshafts -does it matter if they are abs/non abs just had the ones that i bought arrive and 1 is and 1 isnt -thoughts? :)
Paul Woods
02-09-2005, 06:40
i dont think it matters al,the difference is an ABS ring on the CV joint,you can knock the ring off the CV so not a prob....as far as im aware (99%) the ABS and non ABS shafts are the same (length/diameter etc)
Yeeeehaaaaa :lol: :lol: the V6 goes in from underneath with only the plenum and the offside suspension mount needing to be removed.
There's no really tight spots, lowering the car slowly with the crane enables it to be swung into good position to clear the engine easily. I was amazed how easy it was :)
Lifting the car to give 3 ft clearance and rolling the engine under in a narrow garage concentrates the mind :shock:
Before putting the engine in I reinforced the chassis members with doubler plates but all the other pictures are self explanatory.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/09/22.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/09/23.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/09/24.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/09/25.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/09/26.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/09/27.jpg
Happy old git :D
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/09/28.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/09/29.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/09/30.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/09/31.jpg
:) :D :P :lol: :lol:
lodgeman
29-09-2005, 22:57
8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Paul Woods
30-09-2005, 06:32
superb JB! more room that i thought coming up from below...i didnt think it would come up that way at all ! now doesnt that look pretty sitting there?
Looks like it always belonged if you ask me.....i know its not mounted yet but its leaning back a tadge,you prob know that already....its the damn sump shape that causes it to sit like that,it has a slopey bottom so when you sit the engine on a flat surface it hangs back like that,so you might find it easier to put your crane on the engine now and let gravity hang it at the right angle for mounting.
That car of yours is super clean,so is the engine...its going to look superb.
So whats your next move?
Yeah Paul I was looking at the angle last night, put the plenum on and found it a bit close to the lid. I felt it needed tilting so the plenum moves towards the back of the car and down, maybe 10mm. When you connected your cold start injector plug did that clear the lid?
I have already got left right position sorted 6mm float each side, so once I get the angle right I will complete the mounts and plan the firewall so I can take the engine out and complete the bay. For now I will keep the engine lid and boot as is.
What a great feeling seeing it sat in there :lol: :lol:
Paul Woods
30-09-2005, 17:33
yes there was loads of room between cold start injector and lid,i reckon i have 15mm between lid and highest engine point.
What you are ideally aiming for is a level looking inlet manifold,the bit with 3000 on it needs to sit fairly level from all angles.You also need to check the tops of the left and right engine mount blocks are level,i believe we discussed this one night on the phone,they should make the engine sit fairly level.Ignore the rocker cover angles and the sump base,they are all over the place,the levelish flat top of the inlet manifold is your best guide,it can rotate back a little further than it did in the camry.Remember the camry has a slopey bonnet with the highest point being at the rear of course.....we have a flat level bonnet so a little tilting back is needed.
Theres no hard and fast way to do it though,as long as it looks right it is right in my book....left to right is crucial as discussed and theres not much room front to back to play about really,ideally sat as far back as your driveshaft inner cv joints will allow before hitting the suspension mounts,i allow 20mm or so clearance here,this will help keep the driveshafts as straight as possible but they will still be angled back a smidge.
Ive a height reference pic if it helps with rotation and final engine height...
http://www.mr2mk1club.com/V6MR2_files/v63.jpg
What a great feeling seeing it sat in there
Just wait until it fires up! amazing sound from these v6's when attached to a manly exhaust system and not the girly camry one.
Thanks Paul for that info, as you say not a lot of room to play with but I think I have it about right now and will try to get mount plates made tomorrow. Have you got the rubber cheeks that fit either side of the offside mount or do you reckon I could omit them?
I see you've put your roof back on :wink: :lol: :lol:
Paul Woods
30-09-2005, 21:08
ah yes i fitted the rubber cheeks back in but their reason for being there escapes me,they dont seem to have a function in life but i included them anyway....i dont think they are needed though.
yes it took all day to put the roof back on for that pic. :D
nice one jb, looks like it was born there.. it looks decpetively spacious from here!. guess thats a lack of rear firewall view.
lodge, i had the same cv's with abs rings.. made no difference with them fitted.
A little more progress. This is the offside engine mount with a 20mm steel bar drilled and counterbored for two caphead bolts. These replace the two studs and hold the bar in place so that it can be bolted to the engine. Does same job as Pauls clever twin angle iron welded design but more suited to my limited welding skills :roll:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/10/1.jpg
Mount plates 4mm thick cut from 6X3 box section which was lying around :wink: What a job 3 discs :cry:
Must do some more welding practice before these go in :oops:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/10/2.jpg
This is lid clearance about 5-10mm but this will increase when rubber mounts sag.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/10/3.jpg
Paul have you tried removing your rear manifold, I can just wriggle the heat shield off but I doubt if there's room for the manifold to come off or does your notch make it possible? It also doesn't look to me that there's enough room to get the crank pulley off for a cambelt change. I wonder if the turbo driveshaft train complete could be used to shift the engine left, all depends I suppose on being able to modify the Camry supported shaft bracket to take the turbo supported shaft. Alan if you still have that turbo shaft I could see what's possible on my spare Camry engine. BTW I still need your address to send you those flywheel bolts.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/10/4.jpg
Paul Woods
02-10-2005, 18:53
very smart engine mount bracket JB,thats a neater solution than my double welded angle iron bracket.
mmm i think looking at the rear manifold pic that you need to move the engine forward a bit,i dont think mine is that close to the rear crossmember,mind you ive never paid much attention to wether i could get the manifold off,i will have to take a look tomorrow.
Yes the pulley is close but i have taken it off in situ just to check it clears and it JUST comes off....you need to take the engine mount off anyway to do a timing belt change so you could always lower the engine down on the drivers side so that the pulley is below the chassis rail.
It could be that your engine needs rotating back more,this would make the plenum to lid clearance better and also move the exhaust manifold away from the rear member.... looking at my ref pic i think im mounted slightly further forward...
http://www.mr2mk1club.com/V6MR2_files/v62.jpg
and the engine top should all look level with the plastic cover fitted....i think the rotation is more critical here than anything else.
http://www.mr2mk1club.com/V6MR2_files/v89.jpg
lodgeman
02-10-2005, 18:59
that mount looks cool :) my welding skills are'nt that confidence building so might try that. yes i still have the shaft ,pm me and i will post tommorow.
as for engine removal i think once its in there its staying there :wink:
I think your engine looks further forward because you have removed the flange that sticks up fom the cross member and the angle of the picture.
My engine is leaning back about a degree based on checks on the engine mount tops and also the plenum top 3000 badge. This will of course change slightly when the car is on its wheels by a small but unknown amount. :lol: At the front I can just fit my hand between the plastic clip on the alternator that holds the loom and the firewall. So I think I have to go with it, especially now mounts are cut. Considering how easily it went in its surprising how little room there is for manoeuvre 8) in the position :lol:
You'll enjoy this stage Al - commitment or maybe committal :? :lol: :lol:
It is bloody good fun this swap - what do we do when its finished :(
lodgeman
02-10-2005, 19:20
by that time paul will have found something bigger to put in it-or perhaps one in the front driving the front wheels :wink:
hey al, if you need anything other than the standard mounts, be sure to let me know before i machine them :wink: as i was going to do that soon.. (no rush buddy!) may be bes to wait and see how JB tackles all,
i guess you can then shout your orders at me cap :lol: '.. i can knock off a solid steel bar there like Jb's for you no problem, whichever way you want to go.. i have a fair bit of odd material here excess for jobs and stuff, so no buying involved fella..
lodgeman
03-10-2005, 00:11
i really dont know what i'm doing-i havent even seen a v6 in the flesh yet :cry: , my only way of guaging is by what paul and jb are doing, once i get a definate idea as to what i am doing i am sure i will be getting in touch- i have not won the last two camry's i have bid for that seem reasonable- but there is a estate version in brighton with the head gasket gone that may be a go-er, not too far to get it back.thanks for the offer though,most appreciated :) .
Paul Woods
03-10-2005, 06:59
i really dont know what i'm doing
Neither do JB and i!!! :lol:
When you first clock eyes on the V6 in the camry you will have a shock,it looks farkin massive! it does get smaller once you get it out and start stripping crap off it though.
JB i think camera pics can be dodgy to make opinions on mate,if the alt is that close then you must be in the right place....oh point of interest,i fitted the smallest possible alt belt so that it wasnt swung out as far...i know it only saves maybe 1 or 2 cm but worth a mention.
Yep i found the V6 swap more fun than the turbo,its the ridiculous nature of it having such a big engine in a little car,still makes me chuckle when i look at it and fire it up,you just dont expect that growl to come from a mk1!
If we knew what we were doing it would be no fun :lol:
Yes your right on the alt belt, I bought the size you recommended but couldn't raunch it on so bought next size up. May have to try harder :twisted: Let me know what you find on the manifold :)
i really dont know what i'm doing-i havent even seen a v6 in the flesh yet :cry: , my only way of guaging is by what paul and jb are doing, once i get a definate idea as to what i am doing i am sure i will be getting in touch- i have not won the last two camry's i have bid for that seem reasonable- but there is a estate version in brighton with the head gasket gone that may be a go-er, not too far to get it back.thanks for the offer though,most appreciated :) .
al, when you have her suspended up inside the bay, your more than welcome to give me a shout, i'll come over and help cut some cardboard templates up to take back and machine for the mounts, i guess i'll have to do some v6 mount homework first but it's really not a problem and you are up in surrey i guess only 30 clicks away or so. paul there is not much difference from the turbo mounts right?..
Paul Woods
04-10-2005, 07:31
paul there is not much difference from the turbo mounts right?..
Identical matey! the same mount templates used for both...the difference is where the holes get drilled in the plates when you mount the engine/box...and that is governed by the longer st185 shaft/v6 output shaft set up.
Yes JB the alt belt is a tight fit on that size i gave but it does go on,you need more shredded wheat on a morning.....it just helps keep it further away from the front.
Wow new look stunning Nik
Now I've tacked my engine mounts in I plan to remove engine and do all welding with it out. I,ve also looked at the firewall and expansion bottle. By chopping the obsolete bosses and studs off the drivers side mount I have found room to fit the Camry expansion bottle using the original fitting clip which I saved from the Camry which utilises an existing bolt on the Mk1 inner wing, what luck!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/10/11.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/10/12.jpg
I think I have worked out how I will rebuild the firewall. First fit a vertical sheet each side where I have left part of old firewall. These sheets will close the gutter ends and stabilise the remnants and tie them to the boot floor. Then weld a sloping tray at the bottom between the verticals to shed water and finally add a removable flat panel in the middle.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/10/13.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/10/14.jpg
Paul Woods
07-10-2005, 06:50
all looking very good JB,love the rear firewall design too....im going to have a go at putting "most" of the original wall back in except for around the manifold area.
Yes the little camry expansion bottle sits well in that area doesnt it!
Keep the pics coming,it has to be said you are doing a much better job of things than i did !
Thanks Paul:oops:
Not sure I agree with you, but it is a great help having all your notes and pics to see what's ahead.
lodgeman
10-10-2005, 18:33
just a question- what did you both do about the fuel filter- standard mk1 or the camry?
Paul Woods
10-10-2005, 18:48
standard mk1 for me mate......not often you will get that sentence out of me.
that is coming along great guns mate..ive been reading this thread but havent had anything to contribute, i still havent but just want to say..
its coming along nicely, which i already did at the start of this reply..
so ill shut up again now..
Thanks Nik its nice to know other folks are interested. I certainly get a lot of encouragement from seeing other guys' progress. I'm having to be inventive to get round the 4 pics limit now!
its only four pics per post..just keep creating new replies and adding pics..
An update on mounts and firewall. I am pleased with the firewall but its a lot of work. I'm finding welding the thin sheet of the old wall a challenge!! Three pics in this post so only one smiley:)
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/10/22.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/10/23.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/10/24.jpg
real nice bit of work jb real nice!!
Paul Woods
18-10-2005, 15:22
damn thats neat JB...i especially like the pass side mount the way its tubular at the top edges...plenty strong!
Also looking at the position of the mounts you are definately mounted about an inch further forward than i am,which is no bad thing.
lodgeman
18-10-2005, 22:29
looks like it was made to be like that-brilliant job\\:D/ . i dont have the patience to make it that good. all i seem to be doing at the minute is answering emails for parts,gone bannanas:smile: i am trying to get as much off as possible as it has to be gone soon.
looking great..look no rust!.. clean example of a mk1.. i remember it before it was grounded at this start of this thread :lol: ace work 'cap..
Lots of cardboard templates later have finished awkward part of firewall. Just the removable panel to fit now. I am really chuffed with it\\:D/
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/10/29.jpg
Gary Symons
23-10-2005, 10:23
That looks spot on, very tidy indeed.
Paul Woods
23-10-2005, 10:48
thats just way too neat! i also like the rain channel solution JB,any water that falls through the engine lid/boot gap is just going to run out the bottom of the engine bay,im afraid im going to have to copy your idea,its a much better solution than mine.
Paid2getdirty
23-10-2005, 15:11
Mmmm lovely JB, makes my hammer inflicted firewall look shameful.
Cheers guys:oops:
I can assure you Gaz if it had been an option I'd av used the BFH but we need a removable panel to change our spark plugs.:-x
Yes Paul I'm hoping thats what the water will do but I have realised I need not have closed the existing channels but could have let them drain into the chute instead of holding water, :-k spose I still could. Also because the top edge of the removable panel is 30mm behind and 10mm lower than the existing seal lip it should hold its seal against the curved reinforcing rail near the front edge of the boot lid, heres hoping
lodgeman
23-10-2005, 22:48
well bugger me:-P not literally of course.-looking very professional.hope you kept the templates for future v6'ers:-)
Driftin_AW
24-10-2005, 01:19
that's far too professional looking - someone get that man some angle iron :P
At last firewall complete, painting done and engine back in for good. It really is amazingly easy putting the engine in from underneath provided the suspension mounts are off. Built the rear torque mount today so next is reassemble suspension and get it back on its wheels.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/10/38.jpg
Paid2getdirty
31-10-2005, 22:27
Swish Jon, top drawer piece of graft there, Sooty told me its time for another meet, so let us know when you fancy ok.
lodgeman
31-10-2005, 22:37
wow- looking excellent- hope mine looks as good (i doubt it though):-) at this rate yours will be on the road before paul.!
Paul Woods
01-11-2005, 06:49
it certainly will al! very classy jonathan...now the engines in it will all fly together,superb work as usual.
lodgeman
01-11-2005, 16:16
just a question to you or paul- if the engine goes in from underneath like you have done jb, would it be possible to keep the top rail in place like grsymons has done and just remove a panel under it and remake or does the intake manifold need the area where the top rail is? its difficult to tell from both your and pauls pics:-)
Paul Woods
01-11-2005, 18:45
i see what you mean alan....no it wouldnt work,the manifold needs to sit where the top of the rear firewall is,so at least that bit needs chopping out like JB has done,no need to go as mental as i did with the grinder!
MegatronUK
02-11-2005, 09:03
This man really does like doing things properly! Nice one JB, that conversion is looking really sweet.
One quesition though, you look like you know what you're doing.... why are you here? :wink:
superchargedsam
02-11-2005, 09:25
thats is a reet neet install tis for sure !
lodgeman
02-11-2005, 09:29
just a question to you or paul- if the engine goes in from underneath like you have done jb, would it be possible to keep the top rail in place like grsymons has done and just remove a panel under it and remake or does the intake manifold need the area where the top rail is? its difficult to tell from both your and pauls pics:-)
sorry to labour this question but you both have the engine level at the top - could the engine be tilted slightly in the fitting proccess? as from the pictures there seems to be more room at the back height wise than the front? or does that cause problems lower down in the engine compartment?
One quesition though, you look like you know what you're doing.... why are you here? :wink:
Noone else will have me:-({|=
Alan Paul is right about top rail; the intake would hit it. I did consider trying to keep it. You could tilt the engine back but your left and right mounts need to be about level so the rubbers work properly. Now the engine is in I think what I have removed is about the minimum you can get away with and although you needn't cut right down to the top of the the crossmember it does give a good sized access panel and shute to shed water.
Driftin_AW
02-11-2005, 17:05
just a quick question for JB and Paul - if the intake manifold wasn't on, would the engine fit without cutting the firewall?
Paul Woods
02-11-2005, 17:14
Yes! it actually would sit in there quite well and clear the rear firewall easily,its only the manifold that causes problems....you thinking custom manifold?
Paid2getdirty
02-11-2005, 17:53
Yes! it actually would sit in there quite well and clear the rear firewall easily,its only the manifold that causes problems....you thinking custom manifold?
Nah, he's thinkin "bin the inlet tracts and plonk a supercharger in the
valley on a modded manifold"!!
If your'e only running low boost might get away with no intercooling, is it a goer??
Driftin_AW
02-11-2005, 18:04
just asking more out of curiousity than anything. Some dude on a NZ aw11 forum (clubaw.co.nz) was talking about attempting a v6 conversion without doing any cutting, after looking at some pics I thought it might be possible with a custom manifold or something, seems I may have been right :)
unfortunately the 3vz's aren't particularly available here. They're definitely out there somewhere, but I never see them at wreckers. Heaps of 1VZs, 2VZs, even 4VZs but no 3's.
Don't suppose you know of anyone who's really pushed the boundaries with a turbo 3vz do you? Like 350hp or more...?
Paul Woods
02-11-2005, 18:37
not really malc...most people tune the 1mz but i dont know why because the 3vz has much stronger internals so will take more boost,also OBD1 so it doesnt argue with the mods!
My plan is to push 300 if my copper gasket plan works out,i think if you drop the CR and fit decent pistons to the 3vz then the rest of it is well up to the job.It really is a cracking engine with only a few "weak" areas (HG's and pistons under big boost),address those and its bulletproof.
Paul Woods
02-11-2005, 18:38
by the way whats a 4vz? sorry for the thread interuption JB!
MegatronUK
02-11-2005, 19:13
Is that the 3.4?
Driftin_AW
02-11-2005, 23:09
4vz-fe is another 2.5L
the 5vz is the 3.4L
I still think it would be pretty cool to whack a 3VZ into my gt4, but to make it comparable to a half-assed 3sgte it would probably take some expensive work, namely pistons(x6!!), HGs (x2!!), and possibly cams (4 of them!)
--end of thread-hijack--
This weather has certainly slowed progress but I now have suspension rebuilt and can roll car in and out of garage again. The rear torque mount took a bit of work but I reckon it is very strong. I drilled the mount to bring the through bolt directly under the chassis rail.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/11/19.jpg
1. off Mk1 rear mount
2, 5 &6 off turbo rear mount
3 off Mk1 front mount
4 spacer with 12mm hole 19.5 mm long
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/11/20.jpg
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/11/21.jpg
Paul Woods
24-11-2005, 18:44
now thats bloody lovely that is,perfect JB! are you going to fill the air gaps in the rubber with urethane? i did...but only cos the mr2oc guys said it was necessary,what do you think?
I dunno Paul, are they saying the rubber cracks or what?
so thats where yove been these last few weeks :lol: nice mount .. always worth paying attention to these main items, i missed the extra lug on mine..:oops: .. awesome mount :D
lodgeman
24-11-2005, 22:23
bloody georgeous!!!!if it was a woman i would marry it:-P :ha:
Paul Woods
25-11-2005, 06:48
yes JB they reckon (on the v6 mk2s anyway!) that the extreme torque tears the rubber block so most of them urethane fill the air gaps,i duck taped up one side of the block and poured it in,i used a 75 shore urethane from RS components stock no 199-1395.
I guess the rubber block is fine for the turbo engine but the torque of the v6 means it just needs help,im only going off what the US lads say though.
bloody georgeous!!!!if it was a woman i would marry it:-P :ha:
What a truly honourable old fashioned chap you are Al:lol:
Thanks Paul, do you reckon the left and right engine mounts need filling too?
Paul Woods
25-11-2005, 18:44
no not at all,they are pretty much solid anyway but all they do is carry weight,its your torque mounts that do all the donkey work.....my front torque mount was pretty much solid too so it was only really the back one that needed filling.The worst that can happen is excessive engine vibration going through the chassis,and if that happens you can get the drill out and make a few holes in the rubber until it stops,cant see it coming to that though.
Ben Wilson
15-12-2005, 00:03
Yes! it actually would sit in there quite well and clear the rear firewall easily,its only the manifold that causes problems....you thinking custom manifold?
I've got to admit, I keep thinking that a V6 with 6 throttle bodies would sound great :)
Paul Woods
15-12-2005, 07:16
it certainly would ben! finding space for the bodies would be v hard on this engine though,they'd have to point straight up so a big hole needed in the engine lid for them to poke out of!
To be honest these V6's sound gorgeous stock too,have you any plans for a swap ben?
Good to see you are thinking V6 swap Ben.
It would be brilliant with that lot sticking up under a transparent sloping engine lid and you'd probably still get 50miles per tankful going lightly!
Ben Wilson
20-12-2005, 03:43
it certainly would ben! finding space for the bodies would be v hard on this engine though,they'd have to point straight up so a big hole needed in the engine lid for them to poke out of!
To be honest these V6's sound gorgeous stock too,have you any plans for a swap ben?
I keep thinking about it, I've got to crack 200 horsepower with a ZE first ;)
I saw some pictures of a V6 with the upper half of the manifold off and I started thinking about building up a top section with bent pipes and the TBs pointing forwards and back..
How much clearence is there between the hood and the rocker covers?
Paul Woods
20-12-2005, 07:02
quite a bit really ben,id say a good 6 or 7 inches.
Ben Wilson
20-12-2005, 21:04
That's more than enough room to fit some horizontal or angled throttle bodies and air filters.
Jiff Lemon
04-04-2006, 21:36
Holy thread resurection Batman!
JB - Whats the latest on this one? And more importantly - lets get this thread into V6 forum where it belongs!
lodgeman
04-04-2006, 23:05
havent heard from jb in several months- he used to talk to paul on the phone, but his build is excellent work. but there again he is an lecturer in aviation !!!!!:jump:
Paul Woods
05-04-2006, 06:47
yeah where has JB gone? you still there mate!!! love to see updates on this one.
Yep still here guys, been hibernating in cold weather, and other "life" been busy but hope to do some work on car over Easter. Will post news, when there is any. Thanks for resurrecting this thread it will save me trying to remember where I left it! Now where's that garage door??
Paul Woods
08-04-2006, 13:27
good to hear from you JB,im looking forward to seeing yours at JAE mind so no excuses! :)
lodgeman
08-04-2006, 15:37
nice to hear from you jb- hows it going?:thumbsup:
Good thanks guys - where you up to then Al?
Jiff Lemon
08-04-2006, 19:00
if you need incentive to open that garage door, how about a friendly race for the crown of 2nd V6 on the tsartup register?
You should walk it (I'm still parts collecting!)
Top draw work mate, looks factory made!!
Phil
lodgeman
08-04-2006, 22:54
Good thanks guys - where you up to then Al?
been in the same situation as you- my mother has been ill since before christmas so there has been a lot of hospital and home visits etc, i am in the process of stripping the rear suspension and refitting with new stuff, got the rear arches to do and some bodywork that goes with that. most of the parts are now purchased but ...... paul is going to fit the engine and give it a spray over. i seem to have run out of time and have to move soon!
Hmm yes Al no sooner do kids leave home than parents need looking after.
Still you & me OK with all these young brutal guys to chase us. Better get some work done before Jiff roars past!!
hello jb, long time!. hows the car coming along?, ive been very busy myself lateyl, still chipping away, another three months for me i'd think.
Hi Adam I feel like a bear coming out of hibernation blinking in the sunlight.
But hey I actually jacked her up, crawled under and got stuck in today!!
Yes I mean the car!!
Got started on fitting the clutch slave, rear mount and gear linkages today.
Still to do: fit plenum, afm,and filter; starter; fuel connections; coolant and heater hoses; exhaust; rear arb; battery to frunk; front shockers, urethane bushes and brakes.
Then just wire it up and off to JAE!!!!!
lodgeman
20-04-2006, 22:30
Still to do: fit plenum, afm,and filter; starter; fuel connections; coolant and heater hoses; exhaust; rear arb; battery to frunk; front shockers, urethane bushes and brakes.
Then just wire it up and off to JAE!!!!!
is that all?:whistle: should have it ready by the weekend!!:hidesbehi
Jiff Lemon
20-04-2006, 23:12
I actually jacked her up, crawled under and got stuck in today!!
Yes I mean the car!!
Wheres the pics! we demand proof! :)
Well in view of Lodges car now running I guess I ought to rename this thread but don't know how to!!
So progress slow but exhaust and front mount done and lots of other jobs close to sorted. Front mount made from 80 X 40 box. This is because V6 with V6 supp shaft and ST185 shafts combo sits about 1/2" right of turbo set up so rubber mount and Mk1 bracket don't line up. So I thought it easier just to build complete new mount, offset can be seen in photo.
Exhaust is turbo hacked about as per Paul's instructions. ?20 the lot!!
Paul Woods
27-05-2006, 15:36
i love the front torque mount JB,thats an excellent way to do it,very neat indeed! I'll rename the thread for you mate no probs.
nice work jb, mighty cheap exhaust system if i may say.. mine was 25 delivered.. beat me!.
lodgeman
27-05-2006, 23:43
thats some lovely work there jb:shades: nice exhaust as well- cheap as chips:boogie: my audi one was ?20 needed a bit more work though:shifty: and ?30 postage:roll:
Good progress in last 24 hours. Clutch all connected up and working. Gear cables connected. Exhaust downpipes fitted for final time with O2 sensor in rear downpipe to avoid notching crossmember. Both torque mounts filled awaiting refitting. I found there was ample mix using RS Components 199-1395 which has 500g in it; enough for at least 3 mounts. Bad news is I should have reversed the coolant pipe which points the wrong way while the engine and tank were out. Its a bit congested down there. So any other V6ers I strongly recommend you do that it will make your coolant pipe runs much easier.
I suppose i'll have to start wiring soon!!
Paul that mystery earth you told me is hidden in the loom about 18" from the end. Did you mean from the ECU plugs end?
Paul Woods
30-05-2006, 07:36
indeed JB,its about 18" from the ecu plugs,however i think i stumbled on the reason for it being needed on lily....i had no continuity between the earths on the rear cam cover (directly under the acis valve assembly) and earth...just make sure those earths on that cam cover bolt are in fact grounded and you shouldnt need the 18" earth.
Cheers Paul that makes sense because I found it today and as well as earthing the screens on a few grey wires within the loom (green rings) it also has continuity with the thick browns on various plugs and that earth tag on the cam covers you refer to above. As you say, probably not needed provided that tag is earthed. However, before I rewrap the loom I will probably connect a lead to it just in case, no harm in extra earth paths. For anyone else who wants to dig it out I found it a few inches in from the two white and one grey plugs end (red ring) under the label (yellow arrow), might save unwrapping the lot.
Paul Woods
30-05-2006, 18:55
excellent info JB :thumbsup:
How is it the size of a job bears no relation to the time it takes? Spent nearly all day making bracketry to hold ECU and COR in place, then found I couldn't change rear light bulb without removing ECU doh!! Still, fixed it now.
Fuel lines, hoses, AFM and filter and WIRING to go before start up. hehehe!!
Marksman
01-06-2006, 22:44
Nice work Sir, and labled wires too!
Good luck,
Owen.
lodgeman
01-06-2006, 22:53
looks good jb!:praise2: when are you looking towards for start up?
Yeah they all labelled Owen but still looking pretty scary!
Not sure about start up Alan depends how wiring goes, maybe a couple of weeks??
How is it the size of a job bears no relation to the time it takes? Spent nearly all day making bracketry
I'll second that JB, bracketry is a time certainly consuming Job probably spent more time doing that on mine than anything else I reckon, except maybe the zorst - but then that has bracketry involved in itself, hehe.
Looking good so far though fella, some good progress there, glad its all going (mainly) to plan for you :)
:) labels.
tidy work jb, all in good time eh :toke:
Paul Woods
02-06-2006, 07:11
oooh spaghetti,my favourite!.... dont worry about the wiring JB,its not hard at all... you will be fine.
Mase_00_7
09-06-2006, 22:24
Wow, just spent over an hour reading through from page 1, and i must say that you've planted a seed!..... :naughty:
Awesome work! :driving:
Mase go for it. I've enjoyed every minute of it, and there have been a lot of minutes!! Welcome to TB by the way; I'm honoured to have received your first post!
Nearly finished all the brackets hoses etc in the engine bay now and wired up N1 {whoops I mean M2} today so engine cranks over. It is a real thrill to hear the engine turning after so long knowing that soon it will actually run.
Jiff Lemon
11-06-2006, 22:14
ooooo I'll be more than content to finish behind you JB, Much left to do?
Mase_00_7
11-06-2006, 23:50
Mase go for it. I've enjoyed every minute of it, and there have been a lot of minutes!! Welcome to TB by the way; I'm honoured to have received your first post!
Nearly finished all the brackets hoses etc in the engine bay now and wired up N1 {whoops I mean M2} today so engine cranks over. It is a real thrill to hear the engine turning after so long knowing that soon it will actually run.
I'd love to mate! Hopefully should have a job change by the end of the year so it may be a possibility!
Cheers for the welcome, and i gotta say that this deserves a first post! When i had my last car (Escort) I would follow all the crazy Cosworth builds over on PassionFord, and im just amazed at the sort of engineering that people can carry out in their own garages/sheds.... really inspiring stuff!
One problem i've found tho is sourcing a 3.0l lump. All the Camry's i've been able to find (ebay and autotrader so far) are either 2.2's or are about 4 grand....
Keep up the good work! :driving:
superchargedsam
12-06-2006, 11:33
Mase they are around for low money, also worth checking autotrader as always ones on there for around the ?600 mark usually with good history and some tax and test on them !
At last everything mounted in engine bay, hoses sorted.
Now for wiring, should be running soon if all you sparkies can guide me through!!
not long then jb, hope this one go's real smooth :thumbsup:
All i can say is amazing, the quality of your work is top notch :clap:
Hope it's all running very soon
Thanks Garbe, fingers crossed as I do wiring!
YEEEEEHAAAAAAAAA
It runs, after a quick call to Paul to discuss the last few wires, it was done!!!
HaHAha I can't stop giggling.
Fired up after a few cranks. What a sound!! Throttle response with the Ali fly is amazing.
I was so excited I forgot to look for oil pressure or looked at Tacho!!
So ran it for maybe 30secs and switched off to check for fuel leaks etc
Then another run again for short while until revs dropped from start phase.
Packed in for tonight, I need food but tomorrow will try to be more systematic.
Weeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!....!!!!!!HE HE HE
Jiff Lemon
28-06-2006, 21:36
WOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Chuffed to buggery for you!
Spanner check everything before you wander up the road! I'd say let it run till the fans cut in before pootling up the road. Packed in for the night? Bet you can't wait to wake up tommorrow! :)
Congrats JB
:booz: a well deserved one later.
after a quick drive of course
Gary Symons
28-06-2006, 21:45
Great news, another one lives! :thumbsup: :shades:
Superb stuff JB. Hat's off to you mate:thumbsup:.
Marksman
28-06-2006, 22:26
Bwwilliant news.
BigbigBIGgrin.
All the best,
Owen.
lodgeman
28-06-2006, 22:46
well done jb!!!!:mrgreen: bet you cant wait to get it down the road!!!!:hehe:
Well done JB, you must be buzzing!!! :jump: I'll have to pop down and have a peep....
Get some piccys up :mrgreen:
Paul Woods
29-06-2006, 07:11
superb mate :thumbsup: knew she'd fire up,the wiring is a piece of cake really isnt it! now get her pumped full of coolant,bleed bleed and bleed again,takes ages to get the air out!
Make sure your name is added to the v6 swap registry,very important that!
A magical noise they make isnt it when not restricted by a camry exhaust system,i never tire of hearing it.Oh im having a look at pin 11 STA today and reporting back,4V6 and peebs are checking theirs as well to see whats what... for some reason i connected 7 and 22 to COR 3 on lily,it works but i cant for the life of me remember why lol .
Very well done JB,a grand moment!
Well done JB, will get that wiring checked out real soon, got a bit of ebay posting to do first thing tho :)
Cheers Guys and thanks to Paul for inspiration at JAE 2 years ago and guidance since.
If all goes well with front suspension and brakes and gearbox proves to be OK I should get it to JAE Yippee!!!
Goldy visitors welcome pm me for address and tel no
Paul Woods
29-06-2006, 19:09
JB today i removed the start signal going to pins 7 and 22 (B/W wires) ,it started up perfectly with no problems,then i attached the start signal (from COR pin 3 and starter solenoid) to pin 11 (B/R wire) and again it fired up with no problems at all.... im going to leave it connected to pin 11 although it doesnt seem to care which pins its connected to! dont you just love this ecu!
Well not quite such good news tonight. Got home from work planning to run engine and do some proper checks, noticed I'd forgotten to connect two small tubes to vacuum tank. Connected them up and started engine which then hunted and settled into very slow idle although picked up nicely when revved. So methinks try it without vac tank connections as yesterday it idled a treat. When then trying to restart starter wasn't cranking!! To cut a long story short starter works OK when B+ connected to energiser wire at M2 and all relays in engine fuse box work as per checks in Haynes when pulled out of fusebox. Unfortunately wife out so noone to operate ignition while I listen to relays so will have to do that tomorrow and maybe check if switching voltage is arriving at relay sockets.
I think this problem is not swap related and perhaps an intermittent fault with the alarm/immobiliser or a dodgy ignition switch. I vaguely remember having occasional similar problems before the swap. OPINIONS WELCOME
Are you sure it's not just a diing battery JB ?
Had simmilar symptons with mine will untill it had a full charge.
No same battery whizzed it over fine when hot wired but thanks for suggestion.
Okay, do you have a bad earth somewhere, maybe it is this pesky plenum / rear bank earth problem ?
johnathan
29-06-2006, 23:56
great to hear you got her stated hope u find the problem
Paul Woods
30-06-2006, 07:13
i concur JB,sounds like a previous dodgy prob...if its cranking from the M2 its either your starter relay/ignition switch/immobiliser/and or wiring.
Re the hunty idle,check the igntion timings correct,check the TPS hasnt moved and adjust the throttle bump stop,see what that does.Also are you 100% sure the cam timings right? the pulleys will fit back to front throwing the cam timing out by 1/2 a tooth on the cams which in turn throws the dizzy timing out as its driven off the rear cam...just a few ideas.
Thanks guys.
Pretty sure its not that earth cos I've checked that when I saw you guys had problems. Also it ran sweetly on Wednesday evening only change was I attached those vac pipes to the vac tank on Thursday.
So I first need to get it cranking again nearly 100% sure that's the immobiliser but I'll soon find out once missus sat turning key while I check with me meter.
Then I can run it with and without vac pipes to see if thats causing the dodgy idle. I doubt if its the cam timing, I was very careful to mark everything before dissassembly and recheck on assembly and it had no problem on Wed eve. Hmm could be ignition timing if I forgot to clamp Dizzy!!
Thanks again chaps will post me happy or be back for further ideas soon.
Jiff Lemon
30-06-2006, 11:34
Any idea what make immobiliser is on there? 99.9% of immobolisers will fail "safe" if you remove their earth (hence why Cat2 immobilsers require two independant earths). Then again, as it's probably a 90's installation I bet you could remove the ignition shroud, and find the starter and ignition cuts both done 2 inches from the barrel!
It's a Sigma Jeff fitted in 96 Seems to be well done with all soldered joints and two leads coming out with plugs on the end to allow it to be bypassed.
The fault is an intermittent connection just behind the ignition switch, when I rummaged around last night the signal came back and engine fired up fine so today will FIX IT!!
superchargedsam
01-07-2006, 18:30
JB I have a similar issue so when you track it down can you let me know, cheers fella and good luck !
GOT THE BUGGER!! Dodgy contact at the plug next to the ignition switch now cranks and starts every time. Idle OK too. Sam if yours is similar check the starter relay by the book and while its out see if you are getting 12V at the socket when someone turns the key to "start" You've probably done that but it enabled me to be sure the fault was "upstream"
Radiator leaking so ordered a new one ?86inc seemed a good price so will fit that then run it to full temp. Meanwhile must get on with front suspension and brakes.
lodgeman
02-07-2006, 10:25
well done jb!!!!:clap: :clap: where would you be without the wife eh? lol lol
Jiff Lemon
02-07-2006, 11:18
Ooooooooooooooooo the brakes! I know about the brakes ;)
Pictures JB! We demand pictures!
Jeff you'll have to be patient but here's some pics for time being
First pic - engine now all plumbed in and running
Second - easy wiring guide for V6
Third - lie on your back and hold the monitor above your head to view this!!
Red - hot flow from engine I took it via original Mk1 oil "cooler" to support hoses
green - return flow from rad, ubend obscured by front torque mount
yellow - heater hoses, original Mk1 hoses with extensions
blue - offending gear cable held away from downpipe by piece of "tin"
This area is very cramped and may need revisiting future V6ers will benefit if they can reverse the tail on the return pipe which comes along past the tank. best sorted when tank out!!
Jiff Lemon
02-07-2006, 21:50
Oooo see what you mean now about it being tight!
Looks like I've some fun and games ahead! Any words from the wise?
One thing I'm planning is running the bulk of the heater hoses in copper piping with just a couple of short rubber interconnects (mainly because we're having aircon installed at work at the mo, so there's loads of copper pipe and a flaring tool lying around!).
The bottom hose is going to be a tough one; Rebending it isn't an option. Slicing it straight and adding a bendy hose may be an option, but I'd be worried about getting a good seal on the jubliee clip.
Wow, nice work JB, firewall mods look great. Engine's sitting nicely in there matey.
Glad you got the wiring sorted and all.
Can't wait for JAE, we are gonna have so many superb cars and car mods knocking about. I'll bet we get the most attention, bling is for your ring, not your motor !
hehe
:thumbsup:
bling is for your ring, not your motor !
Whatever floats yer boat. :icon_eek:
Seeing the wiring laid out like that does make it seem rather easy. Nice one.
Well my rad was leaking so replaced it and after buying more antifreeze ran engine up to full temp today. I only have one fan on the rad and it came on for 10secs and then stayed off for 30 with temp steady just below half on temp guage. So good news!
Started stripping front end tonight to fit new shockers and brake conversion. Tomorrow will order braided hose to fit new calipers. Got me V5 back from Cardiff. Just got to sort insurance anfd MOT. Fingers crossed for JAE
lodgeman
06-07-2006, 22:53
well done jb :boogie: any reason why you only have one fan? i have two spare here if you want them ! foc of course!!
Only have one because other is hanging in garage after I removed it!!
With the 4AGE the fans never came on so I took one off to make room for air horns!!
Thanks for the offer Alan
At last nearly ticked everything off list. Front struts now got KYBs in and bolted on my brake conversion, all nicely bled and no leaks. Thanks to Nathan for his help today. MOT first thing Mon so tomorrow just got to bolt pass seat back in and secure battery in frunk. Still got no engine lid catches but hope he doesn't notice! Maybe I should glue a fridge magnet on!!
Wow that looks smart, stoppers to match the go :thumbsup:
the set up looks solid jb :thumbsup:, best of luck for the mot on monday, hope there is no catches :mrgreen:
lodgeman
15-07-2006, 22:42
loking nice jb:shades: bet your pleased with it- got every reason to be !!!! :clap: good luck with the mot- looks like the braking effiency wont be a fail point!!!
^ try not to brake their machine :D
superchargedsam
16-07-2006, 02:05
JB looking tops there but the paffmiester is gonna be mighty jelouse when he realises your runnng his all time fave brake set up on there !
Jiff Lemon
16-07-2006, 09:52
At last nearly ticked everything off list. Front struts now got KYBs in and bolted on my brake conversion, all nicely bled and no leaks. Thanks to Nathan for his help today. MOT first thing Mon so tomorrow just got to bolt pass seat back in and secure battery in frunk. Still got no engine lid catches but hope he doesn't notice! Maybe I should glue a fridge magnet on!!
When you hand the keys over, say "i've already popped the engine bay lid for you as it's a bit fiddly....."
jeff you blagger!, would that work with you?
Jiff Lemon
16-07-2006, 12:25
Worked for me for 4 years running when I had a renault 4 who's bonnet wouldn't shut properly!
superchargedsam
16-07-2006, 12:26
hasnt john had his 1.5 tested with no latch at all on his SC lid ? or was it tested before the build hence not needing one !
Jiff Lemon
16-07-2006, 15:13
You know what I've just realised - It isn't actually a testable item.
the closest they can get is from chapter 6.5.6
"6. A bootlid, tailgate, loading door, hinged tailboard or dropside cannot be secured in the closed position"
well guess what? It's none of those!
JB, if they try to fail it, ask them to show in the manual the section that it fails under - It bloody well doesn't exist! The item should get an advisory notice - but there's N O T H I N G it can actually fail under!
Wow good news Thanks What about reversing lights?
Jiff Lemon
16-07-2006, 20:46
Again, not a testable item!
IT PASSED HEHE MOT MOT MOT......MOT MOT MOT (SUNG TO ENGERLAND TUNE)
Sorry guys so happy that 18months work has come to fruition
Tester said it was "very impressive" what a nice man!!
Car feels great so now will spend week trying to sort little niggles so hopefully it will get to JAE without mishap.
Thanks to all you lot for inspiration, encouragement, ideas and help and of course especially wrinkly Woods Cheers Mate
Jiff Lemon
17-07-2006, 19:10
Big ole Congrats! Hopefully Al will be on soon telling us his made it back safe and well too!
I'll big the big green envious one at JAE!
Marksman
17-07-2006, 19:11
Fantastic news.
So it is possible to finish a MK1.5...
O.S.
:clap: well done jb, road legal, its been enjoyable to watch over the months.
must be a joy to drive, what have you left to iron out?
Superb news JB...G'on yer sel' big man :thumbsup:
:clap: well done jb, road legal, its been enjoyable to watch over the months.
must be a joy to drive, what have you left to iron out?
I reckon it will be a joy to drive, feels nice and tight and light. It is raring to go in any gear. Gearbox, bought blind, seems OK no nasty noises. I think gear cables need more work as 3rd/4th selection not very sweet. One of my coolant hoses is weeping a touch. It was a 90 I cut out of a Camry hose 35mm but fitted on to a 32mm at one end so I've bought a Samco reducing bend which should solve that. Also need to sort tracking after all work on suspension.
It idles OK in spite of Ali flywheel and feels like a nice tractable road car. Took the missus out tonight to celebrate, she's been really patient, so couldn't really floor it on way home.
The next few days should reveal its personality!!
superchargedsam
17-07-2006, 22:40
superb news fella top drawer !
lodgeman
17-07-2006, 23:44
just got back jb and .......................
sell it !! its too scary for us old folks lol lol lol
dont need a gearbox ! accelerates from 5th gear to f**king scary in secs. have you sorted the rev counter problem ( shows over revs as it 33.3% out) and if you have how did you do it? well done jb :thumbsup: will definately bring a huge smile to your face!!!!
Jiff Lemon
17-07-2006, 23:52
See, I was thinking logically about the rev counter.
Remove clock face - replace with bit of cardboard.
Put timing light on (measures RPM)
mark up 1k - 6k
Scan in said peice of cardboard to PC, use to make new dial
Job done
Already pulled apart a camry head and mk1 head - not much chance of PCB swappage (but happy to proved wrong!)
lodgeman
18-07-2006, 00:03
jiff it does look good when the acis comes in at 6000 and goes off the end of the rev counter!:hehe: in fifth8O (private roads of course!!)
Paul Woods
18-07-2006, 06:34
yeah al and i had a look at the tach yesterday,i always thought it read correctly but then again i never got mine out on the road! so we need to resolve this.One way would be to use the corrector box i bought from jaycar electronics in OZ that you build yourself,that corrected my digital dash but im not sure if it works on a tach signal,probably will,failing that theres bound to be a similar box o tricks to modify the tach.
WELL DONE JB!!! you have put a ton of work into that mate,looking forward to seeing her at JAE.
Took her out again tonight, what a machine sounds brilliant goes like a bike
Its running rich though and is jumping out of third gear sometimes as I select third both up and down. I am hoping its the cables and will take the console off tomorrow ( put it on for MOT ) and see if it is better with cables not squeezed into that tight space. will also see if it jumps out on overrun.
All the other gears are OK and its quite driveable just using 2,4and5
As Lodge says bay gets bloody hot so will fit fan tomorrow before next run, still the cooling system seems to cope fine even in this weather
The tacho I think is reading 50% high 3000rpm indicated @ 40mph whereas 2000rpm would make sense. I'm not that bothered in short term although it does put red line off dial!!
lodgeman
18-07-2006, 22:57
and sometimes off the dial!!:hidesbehi it certainly does go though does'nt it!:naughty:
Paul Woods
19-07-2006, 06:24
JB if it helps mate,3rd gear always seems to be the problematic one when it comes to a cable mal-adjusted or faulty,i had a cable not properly hooked into the bracket at the box end (on the horseshoe clip) and it was popping out of 3rd,of course it could be the box but its usually one of the cables needs more "throw"
Cheers Paul will keep fiddling and, of course, road testing!!
Good news - bloody hell this motor shifts!! The MK1 cooling system with only one fan copes fine even today!
Bad news - looks like the synchros gone on third. I've shortened the cable some more tonight but still when changing up or down on the move it usually kicks and grates but sometimes goes in, double declutch helps. Does not jump out on overrun down local steep hill. Engages fine from standstill and pulls away OK.
What oil have you got in the box ?
Interesting question - when I got it ,bought blind, it had Dexron in so I have refilled it with Dexron3. Toyota recommends Dexron for some gearboxes including some of the Mk2s I did consider 75/90synthetic though
Try 75 w90 synthetic (API GL5 or better) in it for a few weeks , it's about the best you can put in . After that it's the synchro ring , i have a new one in my tool box you can have if you get to that point . But with luck the oil might make it better.
Jiff Lemon
19-07-2006, 22:13
http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1162_1163&products_id=9529
Try that bad boy in there - Rallydesign is the cheapest place to get it.
Paul Woods
20-07-2006, 06:00
Jb at the box end inside the rubber gaitor on the cables theres a tube that sits over the cable,this tube can sometimes be too long meaning that no matter what adjustment you make at the stick end the cable is restricted at the linkage from pulling fully home....ive had this once or thrice,dont ask me about these bloody cables,they all seem to differ from car to car and nothing explains why some need different mods to others.
If this is the case with yours its as simple as pulling back the gaitor and removing 5-10mm off the tube (run a grinder or hacksaw around its circumference) and this will let it pull into 3rd properly.
Cheers guys will try those ideas. Wombat suppose I could swap you a V6 engine for a synchro ring!!
Came to work in car today and found gearbox fluid had been thrown off inner CV onto my lovely firewall!! Not alot but obviously getting past the new shaft seals I put in. Are these boxes susceptible to fluid level because car wasn't dead level when I filled it and it took 4.5litres.
Will have a look tonight but hopefully can still make JAE
If it has a LSD then i think its 4.2 lt of oil ( http://www.mr2-tech.com/bgb/mechanical/volume2/service_specifications.htm ) , you can have the synchros all they do is remind me of paying too much money for my 2 . :doh: but with a bit of luck cable adjustment and super slick oil might make the change better . Oh one other thing on the box lever there is a little square bronze block that works the across the gate movement mine had serious wear on it but you can turn it around so it's like new again . It's not shown on the pic in the manual but goes between the selecting bellcrank and shift lever . http://www.mr2-tech.com/bgb/mechanical/volume2/manual_transaxle.htm
Oil leak from driveshaft seal turned out to be major. Drained box to see how much gone - only 1/4 litre left!! So last night found LH side gear shaft lookes as though it had disengaged from the diff so split shaft at inner joint reengaged side gear shaft. Refilled box which then emptied itself again this morning. Unless it was the Gremlins on their way to JAE from Liverpool!
So JB's V6 will not be at JAE but JB and brother will be on Saturday. I will be positive, this is all part of building a 1.5 and having driven it I can't wait to sort this problem and get it back.
The other bonus is a nice trip in my brother's Stag!!
See you all Saturday
Much happier bunny now seemed to have solved gearbox/shaft/leak and had wheels rebalanced so back on road.
Still got to sort 3rd gear but at least now I can start investigating the flight envelope!!!! hehe
Jiff Lemon
28-07-2006, 12:48
Excellent news - Might be time to update that signature ;)
superchargedsam
28-07-2006, 12:53
congrats JB bet shes a flier (literally by the sound of things!)
its going to be a pretty brutal launch with that fidanza wheel there!. maybe one day all the v6's can line up to se what's what
lodgeman
28-07-2006, 15:30
well done jb!!!!! :thumbsup: still smiling? i was and still am!!:shifty: will have to get me one of the road angel warning thingy's before i get done! take it down the motorway and see if you have the misfire fault!
Top result JB :thumbsup:
what was causing the leak?
well done jb!!!!! :thumbsup: still smiling? i was and still am!!:shifty: will have to get me one of the road angel warning thingy's before i get done! take it down the motorway and see if you have the misfire fault!
If I had of posted to this thread, I would have said all those things...but I didn't post after all...so that's that I suppose.
Seriously. glad you actually got to :driving: the beastie and hope you don't get any more niggles :)
Well done matey :thumbsup:
Cheers guys
Leak was due to shaft being too long between circlip and tip preventing shaft fully engaging in diff so shaft was able to pull out slightly and seal slipped off shoulder releasing oil all over road a la JB James Bond!!! Solution was grind 3mm off end of driveshaft Brutal!
Yes must now test for misfire, what speed was it again Lodge?
Certainly is fun surprised my biker mate the other day when I gave him a ride.
At least it was easily sorted, also could you resend that list please, as it would'nt open? thanks
The fault on mine occurrs when crusing at 70-80mph on the M-way. You might have to drive quite a way though, mine didn't show up till about 40-50 miles of cruise time !
Paul Woods
30-07-2006, 09:32
is yours all cured now peebs with the connection of the P/W wire though?
The fault on mine occurrs when crusing at 70-80mph on the M-way. You might have to drive quite a way though, mine didn't show up till about 40-50 miles of cruise time !
HA may never worry me then as I only drive to the nearest beauty spot on Sundays to read me paper and snooze!!!!
Will check when I get chance, don't want to miss JAE next year due to a Tony!
Garbe sent again mate.
EDIT Hey Peebs do you reckon it would show up after 25miles if I cruised at 140mph!!?
lodgeman
30-07-2006, 10:10
if you cruised at 140 mph for 25 miles you will have a line of cop cars following you!!!!!
if you cruised at 140 mph for 25 miles you will have a line of cop cars following you!!!!!
Ha would make a mess if engine cut!!!!!
" I say Constable following a bit close weren't you, hope you're insured"
OW OW OW OW
superchargedsam
30-07-2006, 18:18
more like a police helicopter !
Things settling down now, put some decent oil in gboxand it stayed there. 3rd gear not perfect but much better; will try some more cable shortening.
Cooling system spot on with Mk1 rad and only one fan, got some slight weeps to fix. Filling and bleeding system was easier than on 4AGE!
Went out for a quick test with speedo disconnected tonight and yellow Mk2turbo passed us at about 80 in a 30limit Should be a donor near me available soon!!
lodgeman
03-08-2006, 23:14
:shades: how fast were you going then? eh?:boogie: good news on the gearbox - i find i use third a lot! :shifty:
yellow Mk2turbo passed us at about 80 in a 30limit Should be a donor near me available soon!!
rotflmao
good news, minor things to sort, shakedown nearly complete :thumbsup:
:shades: how fast were you going then? eh?:boogie: good news on the gearbox - i find i use third a lot! :shifty:
HaHaHa About 29 I think !!!!! but speedo was disconnected!
Yes I reckon third will be good for 0-100
I think my third gear problem may be synchro because
Now I am getting hang of throttle response with ali fly I can change down reliably by double declutching and up if I am quick engaging it before revs drop.
Also I have noticed a golden sheen in oil when drained.
Decent oil has helped so I'll persevere and do some more movement checks at gearbox end to ensure cables are not running out of movement.
Getting rid of all the slack in the cables made mine feel a lot better along with the oil, did take a while though . Personally think the box would have a better change with a counter balance weight on the box lever .
Well not done much on car been very busy doing two jobs!!!
However, what a ride, got to say it was well worth the effort and the minor niggles still left pale into insignificance compared with the fun of driving it. The torque, the sound, it still handles brilliantly. Laugh out loud every time I go out!
Third gear now almost fully recovered, but still useful to discourage wife from driving it! Idle still slight issue but not stalling when cold/lukewarm any more, idle hunts a bit when warming up but steady at 900indicated when warm.
A starting problem has developed though. It used to start on the button but now it takes two or three attempts almost as though it was waiting for fuel to get through. Once it goes its as smooth as ever. It seems to be worse after a few days unrun. Could it be fuel or HT leads ? Suggestions welcome!!
Paul Woods
13-11-2006, 19:00
JB my demo car does this,never fires first turn of the key from cold,but always on the second,always fires first time when warm ,as you say like its waiting for fuel..but i know its not that....a little odd but i live with it! sounds like you are having a blast in her though mate!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2005/06/35.jpg
Is that a 5VZ or 3VZ I see in the background there? :eh:
I'd guess another 3VZ as the 5VZ are like flies around rocking horse sh1t here mate. Never seen one advertised anywhere!
Is that a 5VZ or 3VZ I see in the background there? :eh:
Node
If you're referring to a pic in my thread it will be a 3vzfe
Happy Christmas hope Santa brings you a 5VZ
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