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37831999
25-03-2011, 08:20
Hi guys as you know Paul Woods is building a V12 mk2, after hearing about this insane idea I thought that sounds like a bit of me lol. So I sold all the parts off my current 3sgte build and went and bought a BMW M70 engine

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/164.jpg

After stripping the car out, then came the heartbreaking part of making room for the engine. I don't have all the facilities to do this on my own which is why ive acquired the help from the legend himself sir Paul Woods! ;-).

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/165.jpg

Paul Woods
25-03-2011, 08:48
You sir, are a madman! It takes some big balls to do what you have done, hats off to you.

Just to emphasize the epicness of what this guy is doing, i have no idea if the V12 will actually fit, not until everything is in place and mocked up, i have bought a really cheap Mk2 which owes me nothing, this young man has used his fully working Mk2 turbo!

We are not worthy.

37831999
25-03-2011, 08:57
In this life you gotta take risks to get anywhere and this is no exception! Lol I believe anything is possible! And after seeing how well the engine fits now I'm 100% that this will work! ( you can't let me down now lol ). This build is the nuts, I mean look at the engine in there! Its a pure beast and I love it lol can't wait to fire it up haha

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/166.jpg

Paul Woods
25-03-2011, 09:02
Nik i think we just found the new homepage pic lol

37831999
25-03-2011, 10:06
Haha gotta love it.

Stripped the cam covers and intake manifolds off for a spruss up and found a snapped head bolt, finding this meant that the engine needed stripping just to make sure the rest off the engine was ok. Engine stripped and found the bores are in pristine condition! Happy days! So good clean up, new chain and gasket and the engines a gooden!

Yesterday my cam covers came back from being sand blasted and were ready for painting. Can't find the right black I won't tho :-( tried one and it came out Matt, now this one is like a grey not metallic black like it says on the tin lol. Here's a pic. Anyone know where I can get a deep black high temp paint ?

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/167.jpg

OlberJ
25-03-2011, 10:28
Eeeep, sand blasting? Hope there's nowt to trap the sand on the underside of the covers, do you have a pic?

Best to use normal paint, rather than VHT, it tends to show up as colours from the RNLIB or infact RNIB too :D

37831999
25-03-2011, 10:40
The covers were in such a bad state, these were done by Motortech, they stripped, cleaned, blasted it. There pretty good so if there was any risk of sand being trapped they wouldn't have done it or would have ways of making sure all is removed ;-) ( well I hope haha ). I'm fairly new to this so I understand vht but whats vnlib and vnib? Sorry if this is a dumb question, please forgive me lol

OlberJ
25-03-2011, 10:48
Ha, sorry RNLBI is Royal National Life Boat Institute, the red VHT turns out life boat orange.

RNIB is Royal National Institute for the Blind.


There have been "incidents" before with media trapped in parts of the V6 rocker covers, just wanted to make sure u don't have the opportunity for the same misshaps.

37831999
25-03-2011, 11:26
Thanks you for the lingo update and the sand insight ;-) all is good tho I think :-). Normal paint is ok then? That's a touch as I got that at work lol

stevehall
25-03-2011, 11:27
I used Halfrauds High temperature engine enamal on my 3VZ block. Came out dark gloss black. I can get the exact product title if you need it.

dgh938peg
25-03-2011, 12:02
I'm in! Keep it up fella - the more you push forward the more it pushes Paula forward! :rofl:

37831999
25-03-2011, 12:12
Yeah if you could cause that's where I got this stuff!

stevehall
25-03-2011, 14:54
Wow, ok, turns out I bought Satin paint, but it came out so glossy I since forgot what it said on the tin, which was
"Hafords High Temperature Engine Enamel Paint - Satin Black"
It comes out looking like this:
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/168.jpg

37831999
25-03-2011, 17:02
Think the people who put the labels on are just playing with us lol the pic of mine is meant to be gloss black lol Yours looks well good! How did you clean your block? I don't fancy stripping the crank and pistons out lol But if needs must lol

37831999
25-03-2011, 17:06
How much do you think insurance will cost people lol I'm 23 and live in central London!!!! Insurance was 2000 standard!

snowtigger
25-03-2011, 17:13
How much do you think insurance will cost people lol I'm 23 and live in central London!!!! Insurance was 2000 standard!

Well you've tripled the cylinders from 4 to 12 so 3 times what it cost you so at least 6 grand, is there an r in this month and has it rained plus all depends which way the winds blowing as well.

37831999
25-03-2011, 17:25
Haha like it lol

cdwood2010
25-03-2011, 18:59
How much do you think insurance will cost people lol I'm 23 and live in central London!!!! Insurance was 2000 standard!

Just don't tell them, I'm sure nobody will notice such a subtle mod....

:/

Chris

stevehall
25-03-2011, 20:39
This lot.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/169.jpg
With a powefull drill and a crap load of time. I tried some of the rust removing gels, but they were a waste of time and money. Also cleaned every thread with a bottoming tap. It's important to do this so the tightening torques actuall mean something. High pressure water through all the coolant and oil channels, then thoroughly rinse through with oil to prevent rust.

If you want to clean up a block with the pistons etc in, you can almost get away with it if you use a lot of heavy grease around where the piston meets the bore and the oil gallery, mask off the oil return channels and try to keep the engine upside down on the stand. Obviously clean the heavy grease out as it will have captured any gritty crap from entering the engine.

37831999
25-03-2011, 20:54
There similar to what I used on my 3sgte. Took so long lol but end product was good here a pic of my 3sgte block

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/170.jpg

dgh938peg
25-03-2011, 21:29
Loving the purple block! Very retro modernistic! :thumbsup:

37831999
25-03-2011, 21:49
Cheers buddy, here's a pic of my engine before changing my mind for the V12

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/171.jpg

dgh938peg
25-03-2011, 21:58
Very nice indeed... :)

Funnily enough... this is how my turbo looked (not even run) before i fell out of love with it and decided to chop it up and throw a 3uzfe in there...

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/172.jpg

Breaking that baby now to help toward paying for the chassis stretch lol :icon_mrgreen:

37831999
25-03-2011, 22:03
Hehe this is how I'm paying for this! All the parts for the 3sgte are so expensive that I'm 800 up so far on selling the bits lol admittedly I still gotta get alot but fell like I'm getting more for my money now!

Yours looked awesome! If I had that think I'd have kept it lol

snowtigger
26-03-2011, 01:52
nah the problem with sorted turbo motors are they costa fortune and go out of tune to quick, plus its like playing russian roulette you never quite know when the things going to go pop, and theres more money in breaking one up than in keeping the whole car nowadays.

but hey who spends loads of money to make a profit on a car your never going to sell as its your personal pride and joy.

Jiff Lemon
26-03-2011, 19:33
what a small world it is.... Turns out I know this engine! Did it come from Milton Keynes by any chance?

37831999
28-03-2011, 08:07
Which engine mate? My block didn't, don't know where it went it, and the head was from Birmingham lol so guess you mean dgh's engine lol

Nod
29-03-2011, 20:50
It takes a man with big balls to cut out the back bone and main structural part of his SW20 chassis. I some times wonder of the TB logo should have wings, a harp and a halo on it some where :D

Spook
30-03-2011, 09:24
this is truly going to look magnificent


In this life you gotta take risks to get anywhere and this is no exception! Lol I believe anything is possible! And after seeing how well the engine fits now I'm 100% that this will work! ( you can't let me down now lol ). This build is the nuts, I mean look at the engine in there! Its a pure beast and I love it lol can't wait to fire it up haha

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/03/166.jpg

foxy-stoat
01-04-2011, 10:22
.....looking forward to seeing the car rock from side to side when its rev'd

:e045:

37831999
12-04-2011, 14:23
Heads have been send away, stripped cleaned and tested! Needs new valve guides, and rocker arms :-( 1200 lighter now but least the thing won't smoke lol can't wait to get it all back!

dgh938peg
12-04-2011, 14:24
OUCH! but like you say, once it's done it's done :)

Garbe
14-04-2011, 22:09
Ditto above, but if you're doing any kind of swap, it ain't worth doing half arsed.

37831999
19-04-2011, 09:43
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/04/125.jpg

boondougal
19-04-2011, 10:13
i don't see numbers there... i just see commitment

madcowman
27-04-2011, 11:09
Hats off to you chap !! ( it was me you bought the Engine off - thought'd I'd sign up to see how you are getting on. )

Jiff Lemon
27-04-2011, 15:35
i don't see numbers there... i just see commitment

Quoted!

adamh
02-05-2011, 12:17
it will be an efficient engine!, great job.

PaulM
03-05-2011, 20:58
Nik,
You still got in board driveshafts off the 2 ?

37831999
07-05-2011, 08:30
Hi Mate yeah still got the driveshafts! Need the hub side of them tho???

Madcowman cheers for the engine! It's coming along good! Just gotta re ring the bottom end so it can handle the twin turbos!

37831999
03-06-2011, 07:55
Blocks now stripped and the all the bearings look like there just run in! The block, crank and shell are mint! Now do I save some money and just re ring the pistons and leave the bearings??? Or do I put a set of acl race bearing lol also thinking of cryo treating the lot??? Anyone now if this is worth doing? Also is there anything else I can do to make the parts stronger? Like con rods???

Marty J
19-07-2011, 14:29
Providing you are not planning on forced induction, altering the compression or increasing the revs, then I would just renew the bearings whilst it is opened. I'm not sure about the rings, I suppose it would do no harm providing there is no excessive wear on the bores.

madcowman
12-08-2011, 21:44
How is this coming along - Twin Turbos ? are you insane ?

37831999
16-08-2011, 11:34
This project came to a holt due to many reasons but the project is now up and running again, the engine should be rebuilt within the next couple of weeks! New plans for stopping the car are Porsche cayenne brakes all round! Oh Marty this is going twin turbo ;-) research in the bummer forums show people running tt at 500bhp on standard internals no problems.

37831999
22-08-2011, 08:12
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/212.jpg

Frame coming together, although a beam is now being made to run from on side of the chassis to the other instead of the one pictured which at the minute is just resting on the floor pan

dgh938peg
22-08-2011, 08:34
Superb stuff!!!!

Keep up the good work there!

If you want any advice structurally, please keep throwing pics up. I do a lot of structural engineering at work so pretty well placed to advise lol! But mainly - "if in doubt - triangulate" :D

37831999
22-08-2011, 09:16
Great! One thing I do want to ask ( maybe a stupid question) but what's the best way to weld this together eg mig?? ) As the frame I'm just tacking together for now.

dgh938peg
22-08-2011, 09:20
cool fella no worries!

TIG would be the best way to weld it to be honest but TIG welding is not for the masses. It's expensive plant and generally not that easy. MIG will be more than acceptable and plenty strong enough.. I just find it doesn't look as "clean" as TIG. Just make sure you have a play around with the settings for different welds. A flat, horizontal corner joint will use different settings to that of a vertical butt weld.. :thumbsup:

37831999
22-08-2011, 10:07
Glad you said that as im not to sad at mig welding but never touched Tig and haven't even got the equipment for that either so Mig it is lol

snowtigger
22-08-2011, 12:25
He said butt and plug fnar fnar.

37831999
22-08-2011, 12:32
Aye?????

37831999
22-08-2011, 12:53
Snowtigger I don't get it lol

dgh938peg
22-08-2011, 12:58
I said BUTT weld and PLUG weld..... then i have no idea what a butt-plug is lol! :D

37831999
22-08-2011, 14:31
Oh haha that went straight over my head lol

snowtigger
22-08-2011, 18:26
Oh haha that went straight over my head lol

I wouldn't do that if I was you, it's not designed to go there.

37831999
25-08-2011, 11:11
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/250.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/251.jpg

dgh938peg
25-08-2011, 13:56
That is a big asssss block... and a very small fuel tank you'll be left with lol!

37831999
25-08-2011, 21:38
Hehe the original tank is having to have major surgery! Lol meaning I've gotta lose my amp and xbox out the front and replace with a fuel cell lol :-(

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2011/08/255.jpg

snowtigger
25-08-2011, 22:55
You could always fit a slimline ps3 or new xbox were the tank was.

37831999
26-08-2011, 07:06
Hehe I think I'll have to utilise all available space for fuel lol
Welding the centre bar in this morning! :-) let's see how I get on lol

dgh938peg
26-08-2011, 08:08
I wouldn't do that if I was you, it's not designed to go there.

Fancy saying that to a man sticking a v12 in a mk2!!!! :rofl:

37831999
26-08-2011, 09:13
Well the bar is welded in, progress at last lol

37831999
16-03-2012, 17:02
After a long and stressful time in life in general. I was going to give up on the v12 and just stick a v8 in instead. But...... I've now gone back to the drawing board and am starting up my v12 tt again! Will keep you posted! Sorry for the delay people ;-)

dgh938peg
16-03-2012, 17:06
we all have our issues in our lives outside of here.... How we deal with them defines who we are and molds us into who we become.. you are the only person that follows you around your entire life.... I hope it (or whatever it was) is all back on track now and firing on all 12 metaphorical cylinders.

Gotta look after #1 first - the car can wait.

37831999
16-03-2012, 17:14
Cheers buddy for the words of incouragement and motivation :-) all is good now and progress will begin shortly. Starting with the bottom end being prepared .

Goldy
16-03-2012, 17:19
Great news matey! Looking forward to some updates, this will be epic!

cdwood2010
16-03-2012, 17:42
Yay!

Back with a blast!

Let's see some updates and pics soon!

C.

37831999
29-04-2012, 09:34
Just bought myself a second V12 as I somehow lost a piston?? Yeah don't ask it just dissappeared lol managed to find one that was in better condition than the one I started with! Also this one has the oil filler one the rocker cover which also saves me having to weld a filler on. My plan is to fit this engine and get the car running whilst the other engine is prepared for forging, cams, turbos etc etc. I've also now got hold of the gearbox which should be delivered to me next week hopefully. Once Sir Paul Woods has finished the adapter plate I hope to bolt together and get the whole thing bolted in the car !

Can't wait to get the gearbox as I can't find much info on the setup? Dont know how the engine spins the gearbox with the driveshaft going between them?

cdwood2010
29-04-2012, 11:23
Spooky German magic I suspect!

:)

And I bet you find that piston in a box a few months from now....

C.

37831999
29-04-2012, 11:40
I know, that'll be just my luck! Spares are always a good idea anyway lol

37831999
02-05-2012, 18:31
Ok so I took the rocker cover and manifolds off today to inspect the condition of my second engine lol. And to my amazement it was immaculate! Looks like its had new cams not long ago along with some new rocker arms! Valves looks good apart from one which has the tiniest bit of surface rust and a spider lol meaning these heads are staying on! Saves me a lot of time!

37831999
04-05-2012, 17:18
Today modified my engine stand so I could finally get the v12 off the floor!
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/49.jpg

This thing is so heavy! I hope my shocks can hold it!

pilotpete
04-05-2012, 17:58
Spooky German magic I suspect!

:)

And I bet you find that piston in a box a few months from now....

C.

Was it used for the 'Butt plug' ??

37831999
10-05-2012, 17:17
so today i was trying to find a way of removing the huge water and thermostat housing. After cutting away most of the water pump im now left with something i think i can work with. the feed is going to come in the front of the housing and exit at the rear of the engine. removing the pipe that sits between the two banks. The rest of the water pump housing will blanked off and the electric water pump can be mounted near the front of the car, and possibly a second at the back of the engine.
2156

37831999
30-05-2012, 20:32
So the adapter plate process begun today, the hardest bit of the process is trying to get hold of some gearbox locating dowels from Audi and BMW! My plan is to put the dowels in the gearbox and connect them by welding pieces of flatbar together so that it gives me a template to transfer to locating dowels postions on to the aluminium plate.

Adam W
30-05-2012, 21:19
If you look on the V8 mk1 thread by aek he shows how he used the bellhousing itself as a template, that might save you a bit of work? Epic project by the way, I am well impressed that anyone would consider this lunacy!

peza6982
30-05-2012, 21:44
i want to see this when its done mental

37831999
30-05-2012, 22:01
Me and you both mate. Here's the modifications so far to the distributors.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/467.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/468.jpg

Obviously you can see the size difference in the 2, every cm helps

37831999
31-05-2012, 15:09
Today I've managed to do some more cutting, the diff now clears the block. Obviously there is a plate to go between the two yet.

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/481.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/05/482.jpg

37831999
07-06-2012, 16:17
First stage of the plate

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/06/75.jpg

37831999
07-06-2012, 18:13
Just picked up some essential parts

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/06/76.jpg

3.20 from Audi :-)

Adam the bell housing doesn't come of like the thread you suggested. This is mainly due to the diff which is massive! So having to go ahead this way.

37831999
12-06-2012, 16:50
Today I managed to get started on the template
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/06/147.jpg

37831999
13-06-2012, 08:38
Template finished! Plate is at the machine shop having the holes drilled.
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/06/160.jpg

dgh938peg
13-06-2012, 08:55
You're gonna have to help me out here mate... What is the purpose of this jig? Is it just to get the dowels positioned on the adapter plate?

37831999
13-06-2012, 12:08
Yeah it's to get the plate to sit perfectly on the gearbox. Once I'm able to put the adapter on perfectly I can then mark the centre with a clutch actuated punch. Then I'll make a jig similar to this one for the engine side but with the centre included.
Dunno if this is the most common or easiest way of doing things but its all I could think of lol

37831999
13-06-2012, 12:15
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/06/161.jpg

Bit more trimming needed but this will allow me to be able to bolt the gearbox to the plate with a perfect snug fit as the plate now fits on the dowels from the box

Whore of Babylon
18-06-2012, 00:25
I love looking through this build every month or two, keep it up.

37831999
18-06-2012, 08:20
Cheers buddy, I got a road trip planned in August 2013 so it'll be done by then lol.

37831999
25-07-2012, 14:50
Quick update, adapter plate punch is finished and has marked its centre. Now it's being drilled to a 8mm hole where a 8mm roll pin will be used to hold a template which is being made to mark the locating pins on the engine side

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/352.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/353.jpg

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2012/07/354.jpg

37831999
04-12-2012, 16:42
Just an update to what's been going on,

Adapter plate centre hole almost done lol hole was cut 1mm to small honing it out but is taking its time.
Engine rebuild is 90% complete. Just need to get the timing tools, timing it up and job done.
Plans have changed a little. Now gonna be running a remote turbo mounted under to bonnet, and a front mounted intercooler.

Goldy
04-12-2012, 18:42
Nice ! Not only are you fitting a V12 but you are turbocharging it as well! I think you are certifiable but if your going to do something big make it worthwhile eh?!

37831999
04-12-2012, 19:21
Exactly ! People say there's easier ways of getting 300bhp in a mr2 and there right, as the v12 standard is only 300bhp I thought I'd boost it up a little to shut people up lol looking for around the 500 mark but more importantly I'm focusing on weight distribution, wanna see how these handle when the weight isn't all on the rear axle! This turbo is bloody heavy! Lol

Goldy
04-12-2012, 20:51
Exactly ! People say there's easier ways of getting 300bhp in a mr2 and there right, as the v12 standard is only 300bhp I thought I'd boost it up a little to shut people up lol looking for around the 500 mark but more importantly I'm focusing on weight distribution, wanna see how these handle when the weight isn't all on the rear axle! This turbo is bloody heavy! Lol

What turbo unit are you using?

37831999
04-12-2012, 20:53
Gonna be running a garrett GT4088

synXero
09-07-2013, 01:12
Is it done yet?

cdwood2010
09-07-2013, 07:44
Pretty sure it got abandoned.

Last we saw it was on eBay with not many takers.....

37831999
09-07-2013, 08:40
Erm it's not done yet but definitely hasn't been abandoned. Had a few weddings and stag dos to go on some money wasn't spare to crack on with the car. The engine just needs timing up. Then it's off to essex for thurston engineering to line the gearbox up. Then mount in the car.

37831999
09-07-2013, 08:43
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2013/07/97.jpg

cdwood2010
09-07-2013, 09:34
My apologies, was pretty sure that this project was on eBay!

Bring on the updates.

C.

synXero
09-07-2013, 15:59
Erm it's not done yet but definitely hasn't been abandoned. Had a few weddings and stag dos to go on some money wasn't spare to crack on with the car. The engine just needs timing up. Then it's off to essex for thurston engineering to line the gearbox up. Then mount in the car.

Awesome.

"Then mount in the car" also awesome.

dgh938peg
09-07-2013, 16:09
That engine is B E A Uoooootiful! :D

Agreed with Mr Wood - it was indeed on eBay - maybe you didn't advertise it but somebody did lol!

geoffmunt
09-07-2013, 16:57
Awesome.

"Then mount in the car" also awesome.

Haynes manual-stylee "To remove, employ reverse procedure".:icon_wink:

37831999
09-07-2013, 17:17
The car was listed at one point ( a low point in my life I must admit ) but after a sale fell through I vowed to keep it and finish it and enjoy it :-)

synXero
09-07-2013, 18:46
It has to be finished, purely so that it exists!

Mr2karl_tbar
03-11-2013, 17:42
Any news on this?

Nod
12-11-2013, 11:12
I would imagine any insurance company or MOT station will want a detailed engineers report before insuring/ticketing it (and therefore no tax either).

Just something to think about before you invest more time and money on something you may never get to drive on the road. As a trailered track car, go for it.

Lyndon.