Engine options for the mk3???

[danlou84]

I've been a long time modder of mr2's current mk2 has some serious engine mods around 400hp its a twin entry turbo model.

So I just bought a mk3 mr-s and want to know what sort of engine mods I can get away with..

Hoping to learn from all you guys.

Heres what I want to achieve.

Redline/limit 9k
quick sharp accelleration
with good torque
not fussed about top speed
oh and decent mpg when im not thrashing it

BHP wise anything above 200 would be nice..

Money around 4k for the build

So my options are to a. mod the 1.8 vvti? forged internals lower compression and a turbo with charge cooler bigger injectors and a remap?

mk2 twin entry turbo engine swap? plus mods for over 300-400hp

v6 or v8 swap?

OOooh the choices..

I really want a "revvy" car..

How does one increase the rev limit? and what judges that limit?

cubic capacity? ecu?

any links to relivate posts would be nice..

btw I have fallen in love with the skyline engines and would cough love that in one of my motors..

also keen to point out the boot is no use to me and will be fully abused for engine pleasure.

so room can be used freely.

[Gary Symons]

We have a couple of v6's on here (have a look in the woodsport projects forum)

The 3sgte has apparently been done a few times (what I am planning to do)

PaulM is fitting an audi V8 to his car!

Also worth having a look on sypderchat and mr2roc for info.

[danlou84]

Which do you think would give me the best results to suit my needs?

Seeing as I only really want a torquey engine that pulls like shit off a stick and still keep the weight down..

Does the v6 weigh much more?

[OlberJ]

Redline/limit 9k
quick sharp accelleration
with good torque
not fussed about top speed
oh and decent mpg when im not thrashing it

Best put a hondata K20A in there then.

[danlou84]

Best put a hondata K20A in there then.

Will that work? Has it been done before? Or was that sarcasm lol

I was thinking about the s2000 engine but would still look to mod it slightly....

[danlou84]

2003-2007 JDM Honda Accord Euro-R CL7

* Displacement: 1,998 cc (121.9 cu in)
* Compression: 11.5:1
* Power: 220 PS (217 hp/162 kW) @ 8000 rpm
* Torque: 206 N·m (152 lb·ft) @ 6000 rpm
* Redline: 8800 rpm

[RandomHero]

Best put a hondata K20A in there then.
this was gonna be my suggestion

[RandomHero]

Will that work? Has it been done before? Or was that sarcasm lol

I was thinking about the s2000 engine but would still look to mod it slightly....
it has been done a few times.

[grash2]

there is a guy in greece that has installed a 3sgte

[Gary Symons]

there is a guy in greece that has installed a 3sgte

I read that over on the roc. Coulndt find any info though, do you have any links?

[msherry21]

What gearbox would you use with a honda engine?

I'd love a type R engine in a mk1!!

[biteme]

What gearbox would you use with a honda engine?

I'd love a type R engine in a mk1!!

BEAMS!


Gearbox wise, for an ITR engine I guess you could use an ITR box and mod the linkages, if possible? I dunno!

[BSM]

If money is not a problem why not use a Hyabusa Turbo motor complete with 6 speed sequential box? You can get 400bhp with 12k rpm limits!
Been done with many engines in mini's and such like. Only a matter of time before someone sticks one in a mk1 or mk3.....

[biteme]

Smart car FTW

[dgh938peg]

Rare as rocking horse shit but what about a 2zz?

http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/images/recovered/2009/08/100.jpg

should drop straight in?

[biteme]

That's the engine that should have been in there from the start!

[dgh938peg]

What are they 180 brake? There's an SC version as well no?

[biteme]

I think they're 190bhp, but it's an alloy 1.8ltr 4pot, so it weighs sod all in reality.

[dgh938peg]

Greddy did an SC kit for it

http://forums.genvibe.com/zerofile/9356/Greddy2zzSuperchargerKit.JPG

[biteme]

Greddy did an SC kit for it

http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg

I think Blitz did one too.

It's the same engine that's SC'd in the Exige isn't it?

[dgh938peg]

YES! I knew they'd SC'd from stock in something!!! :)

[Charged]

I have the 189BHP VVTLI engine in my Corolla T Sport.. I have mixed feeling about it. Great above 6200 RPM, absolute dog shit below. Same lump which is in the Elise.. and there is a factory supercharger option (Corolla Compressor 220BHP)

[loadswine]

There is a chap on ROC that has the Corolla Compressor engine in his Roadster.
The 2zz engine also goes well with a Rotrex blower. Christopher from the Greek MR2 club has one that has been dynoed at about 320bhp as I recall. There is also a race prepped 2zz with turbo being done to a vey high spec , and I guess price also ,on ROC as well.
Remember if you intend using a stock roadster box with any conversion, that the internals are made from chocolate!
A few K20 swaps have been done in the states, but they are very expensive. Give me a V6 any day of the week.
If I was doing my swap again, I'd go for the 2gr or , if I had the dosh, the V8.
I love mine, but not powerful enough or revvy enough for the OP.

[grash2]

I read that over on the roc. Coulndt find any info though, do you have any links?

Links with the swap no, but i must have somewhere pictures of the engine installed on the car, the guy that did this is registered on the www.mr2.gr forums and his thread is in Greek so it will not help you in any way

according to his post the swap was easy to do 2 out of the 4 mounts macthed on the mk3 so his mechanic only had to fabricate the 2, i ll try to dig the pics

[danlou84]

Any links to a s2000 conversion would be amazing guys..

I think thats the route I'm going to take.

That engine is nuts!! :)

[danlou84]

If money is not a problem why not use a Hyabusa Turbo motor complete with 6 speed sequential box? You can get 400bhp with 12k rpm limits!
Been done with many engines in mini's and such like. Only a matter of time before someone sticks one in a mk1 or mk3.....

Do you have any links to any companies that do this conversion?

Is the box a one off? I still want a reverse gear lol

would deffo prefer a manual over seq too

[OlberJ]

Without meaning to offend, i think you might be dreaming here. And if you are, you want one of these : http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/07/05/hayabusa-v8-grows-up-28-liter-455bhp/

[snowtigger]

Just fit a 2gr and have done with it, 4 grand is probably not enough for a 2gr unless your doing all the work your self.

Easy to fit a3sgte a rev3 should do the job 270bhp 1500 for engine and box maybe 2000 for a rear clip,then spend the rest on fitting.

That's if I had a mk3 "cough tarts car" it would need a bodykit and I would need a brown paper bag.

[danlou84]

lol Well its going to be a base for something special.. I'm having my own fibreglass body molded onto it. My mate works for a concept car makers they do jaguar concept cars and a/martins me and my mate are going to make a kit based on the mr-s wheelbase.

So it wont look like it once its done :)

I like the idea of fitting the s2000 engine..

What would I need for the conversion???

Would I need to fab custom drive shafts?

[danlou84]

What will the 2ZZ-GE redline at?

what car is it in originally/where can i source one?

its a 1.8 right? turbo or supercharge it?

[nitro]

lots of companys do turbo kits for them without any internial mods 200 bhp plus. with the brief youve given this would be your best bet. the v6 swap is a good swap but a turbo will give better mpg.

[danlou84]

Which engine do you mean?? for the turbo conversion

[OlberJ]

Hondata K20A (S2000 engine) is about 230bhp and a fair whack of torque too, will scream all the way to 9k revs aswell.

If you're serious though, and going for a full on body too, get the Audi V8 in there and have the go to match the show.

Revvy engines are great in standard, lightweight or stripped out cars but if it's got any weight in there you're best off going for something with buckets of torque. Not to mention the V8 soundtrack.

[danlou84]

Well I think I'm sold on the s2000 whats the internals like? would it handle a turbo?

[OlberJ]

Wrong forum to be asking that on really but they're pretty strong.

Have a search on google, there's loads of options out there to make a good engine even better.

No idea what you're aiming for now though if you want to turbo it?

The Ariel Atom runs a Rotrex'd K20A and is a reliable 300bhp.

[danlou84]

Well I'm just being greedy. I think the s2000 as standard should suffice.

So will I need the honda ecu and gearbox?

I'll probably look at getting a aftermarket custom ecu setup down the line.

[OlberJ]

To fit the goals u gave at the start, K20A is your best option.

No idea if the engine will work in an Mr2 without a custom ECU as the honda might not be able to talk to the dash etc.

[danlou84]

Yeah custom ecu me thinks...

Would woodsport be able to help with the conversion??

[OlberJ]

Would need to speak to Paul about that one am afraid mate :)

[vish]

the s2k engine is the f20c and is around 240bhp. the k20 is the engine out of the honda civic type r and is used in the atom around 200bhp standard.

[OlberJ]

That's me telt lol

[nitro]

good luck trying to find a s2k engine,ecu,and fit a turbo for 4k.

[danlou84]

Thats funny cus I've just been offered the engine ecu loom gearbox and everything else for 2 grand....

[nitro]

what about the turbo etc

[danlou84]

gona go without a turbo

[danlou84]

I think the engine purchase is a good deal it is a conversion pack so its got everything..

I just need some help doing it

I would like to do it myself and save labour and spend the rest on a custom ecu...

[nitro]

its going to be a hard swap because the s2k is front engined rwd.the mr2 is mid engined.

[danlou84]

its more about how the box and shafts will line up...

[snowtigger]

and you may have a lot of problems with which way round it fires as you could install it and find your going faster in reverse than going forward all depends which way round the engine is in the s2000 bay.

[danlou84]

and its been done in the lotus which is mid engined???????????????

[snowtigger]

okay okay we hear you lotus lots of trouble usually serious.

when my lotus killer comes past ill give you a wink.

[danlou84]

Well all im looking for is a k20a conversion.

I've read it been done so I'm sure its possible....

I just need some INFOMATION on anything that could HELP me achieve that goal.

[dgh938peg]

Good point tiggs - i thought the honda bunch run engines the other way too.....

[danlou84]

So it would need to be mounted in reverse?

[snowtigger]

yes there was a thread on here ages ago and some body said it ran backwards compared to normal car engines hmmm.

it was a v6 into a mk2 and he had a load of problems and it wasn't brilliant power output wise.

[danlou84]

Right so is there any toyota engines I can get "rev happy" 9k redline with a good torque band?

[OlberJ]

Why do you want 9k? Any particular reason?

[snowtigger]

they can all rev happy if you lighten the flywheel and reciprocating masses.

plus a 3sgte will put out 270 if rev3 are you against turbos for some reason?.

[danlou84]

Just found out the s2000 spins the "right" way but all the other hondas spin the other... and the Toyota Altezza uses the same box as the s2000

I just want an engine that can hit those figures... More short bursts of power over top end speed..

Which is why turbo isnt going to meet the needs..

so could a n/a mr2 2.0 (forgot engine number) be altered to redline at 9k-10k?

would it just be the fly and box ratios that need changing?

[grash2]

Just found out the s2000 spins the "right" way but all the other hondas spin the other... and the Toyota Altezza uses the same box as the s2000

I just want an engine that can hit those figures... More short bursts of power over top end speed..

Which is why turbo isnt going to meet the needs..

so could a n/a mr2 2.0 (forgot engine number) be altered to redline at 9k-10k?

would it just be the fly and box ratios that need changing?

The 3sge is a good one and very reliable engine, you can ge the beams version, either red or grey top which is great, ( 200 bhp) and it is NA, although it will not have that WOW factor of a k20a in mk3, hint i think the civic type r uses the same engine as the s2000 (not sure though) and there probably its FW gearbox will match perfectly with the mid engine setup of the mk3

sure you can make the 3sge or even the 3sgte( turbo) work higher but what is the reason of this? i have a leaf blower that revs up to 13k it doesn't mean it has more power


BUT if you are dead serious about an extreme high rev rpm engine, then mate your only choise the the gsxr1300 busa engine

it will happily spin as high as the blue sky, sounds really really nice and i think it has been done in the past on an mk3 (again not so sure)

you can even get ideas on how to work it in the mk3 due to the fact that there is a smart busa setup that it evens have reverse and such, just search the net, the engine has placed in minis/smarts/ a lot of car


here is specs for the k20 mr2 i found on the net
UNDER THE HOOD '04 Honda Integra Type R K20, installed by R Crew; Hondata intake manifold gasket; Walbro fuel pump; R Crew intake, header and exhaust; Borla muffler

DRIVETRAIN '04 Honda Integra Type R transmission with factory LSD; custom R Crew axles and shifter adapter; B&M shifter; ACT XTSS clutch; Hasport transmission mount

BRAINS Hondata K-Pro tuned by Church Automotive

[sketchy]

I seem to recall a lad over here with a MK3 he was putting a busa engine in(I think)...the thread has been quiet a while...might go look for it

[snowtigger]

busa engines are pretty nigh on indestrutable even with mega boost a lad i know has a pimlico (fibreglass replica) mini with a 500bhp busa turboed in the back goes like shit of a shovel.

[jayray]

Unless its a very good turbo kit, and you're getting instant boost everywhere on a 'busa turbo, I can't see it being torquey enough to be nice to drive around as a daily. The 'busa mk3 in NZ will be a race car and they're aiming for circa 500 kg iirc and upwards of 400bhp.

The s2k engine would be the best as far as lots of revs and still driveable, especially as its the only Honda four that spins the same as Toyotas?
Just depends on whether you can bolt it up to an existing mr2 gearbox. Would it fit widthwise in the bay with an adaptor plate to bolt up to an S54?

Or you could use the civic engine with the honda gearbox and find a way to make the selectors work.

Using the BEAMS motor, all the work is fairly simple, the single vvti version from fwd cars and the late sw20 will bolt up to an S54. I'm not so sure about the bellhousing bolt pattern on the Altezza motor, and I believe the exhaust cam gear and gubbins are too big to fit easily in an SW20 widthwise.

Is a mk3 wider between strut towers than SW20?

[GregLeBon]

I just want an engine that can hit those figures... More short bursts of power over top end speed..


Looks like a supercharger could be the answer, then....?

[danlou84]

Well the beams give similair power output as the k20a?

[danlou84]

Looks like a supercharger could be the answer, then....?

I was actually thinking this...

I know I have an obsession with the redline but it needs to sit at 6k in the corners and max out at 9k

I know the new lotus does exactly this..

The point of it is that you've always got power on the track.

And there is just something special about hearing a car scream to 9 or 12k rpm..

Maybe a supercharger on the 1.8 or even the k20a would work nicely..

Once ive got everything running I'll look at getting an emeral ecu budjet has just gone upto 6k haha

[jayray]

The civic/integra motor is ~220 bhp isn't it? BEAMS motor with single vvt-i (inlet cam) is 200 bhp, and Altezza motor is 210bhp.

If your budget would stretch for it, I can't see there being a better motor for mr2's than the 2gr. Circa 270 whp with headers, huge gobs of torque everywhere and with an ECU, 7000rpm will be easy.
Anyone know what the Evora redline is?

If you really need 9000rpm, the Honda motors will do it fairly easily, and since the K20A has been transplanted in before, and proven to work, it seems like the best option.

Though if you can get the S2000 engine and bits for cheap, I'd be tempted to do that, if it can be bolted to a gearbox and into the bay.

I can't imagine the beams engine needing much work to pull 9000, but I'd guess they'll be making similar power at those revs to the K20A.

[danlou84]

The s2000 is the k20a?

IS there anyone thats done this conversion with a build thread? I've looked everywhere cant find one.....

[danlou84]

http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=424529

[jayray]

As per:


the s2k engine is the f20c and is around 240bhp. the k20 is the engine out of the honda civic type r and is used in the atom around 200bhp standard.

[loadswine]

Try spyderchat in the US. Don't fool yourself though, if you think it will handle like an Elise at any point, the Roadster won't. Its good, but a Lotus it is not, even with all the bracing currently avvailable. Still ace to drive though.

[danlou84]

Why does the k20a and most honda engines have a redline of 9k??

is it just a close ratio gearbox?

can I get the same result from a supercharged toyota block? with a lightened fly

[dgh938peg]

Why does the k20a and most honda engines have a redline of 9k??

is it just a close ratio gearbox?

can I get the same result from a supercharged toyota block? with a lightened fly

Mainly lightweight engine components - the gearbox has no involvemen in an engines red-line.

The lighter & smaller a component is, a valve for example, the quicker it can move before it bends or breaks under it's own inertia. Quite how Honda do it and do it well i might add i do not know but it's all down to component weight mainly. Lighter the part - less G-Forces involved.

[danlou84]

Interesting....

So no way off getting those results from a toyota block then?

[PaulM]

Wont 7500rpm be OK, why 9K

Why not go wankel
If 4K is your fixed budget you need to get a handle on what want to acheive, how much work you want to do yourself.

The probability is your going to have to go for a 3rd party ecu, thats £1K

An engine, loom and components is anywhere between £1500 and £3K

Are you going to use the 1zz box ? if not thats £500.

Fabrication materials will set you back £500

Then theres mods to driveshafts, pipework etc.

These are cost prices no labour.

Basically 4K probably aint enough unless you go for a proven conversion using one of the toyota engines.

[snowtigger]

for gods sake why get a 4pot screamer that will go bang sooner rather than later plus your putting a bodykit on it and if i judge correctly it will probably be a ferrari itali clone so more weight, you may as well go 2gr with na 7500 redline 270bhp as standard and built to last at least we know you can bolt it to a turbo gearbox and you can get hold of a fidanzza flywheel to make the clutch work.

if your going honda powered your going to have to figure a way of mounting the engine, then mateing it to a suitable gearbox then hybrid drive shafts and cv joints im not saying it can't be done but seeing as no ones done one yet you have to ask your self why has no one done one yet?.

I think it's to do with development cost adapter plate, flywheel, clutch,gearbox, drive shafts i think that will eat up a lot of time and money you could use else where, just because ithe engines cheap cheap doesn't meen it's any good?.

plus lotus use the 2gr in the evora.

[millentubby]

Honda engines rotate the wrong way...so they'd need to be turned around, right? Wasn't there a guy down in Portsmouth who was doing a K20 or B16-ish Vtec swap into a mk1?

I'd go for the 2zz, ditch the air injection (they have actual electric supercharger systems as standard!!) from the Celica 190 or 'rolla T-sport and turbo it.

I think a V6 would be out of the question as the OP wants a revvy engine. And the 3VZ is nice but not if you want revvy.

[danlou84]

Hmmm.. options..

Well after reading everything its probably best to stick with a toyota engine Snow got it right as to why the 9k but body is custom built and is made from fibreglass so weigh's nothing.

I'm still looking into the hayabusa turbo conversion which sees upto 400hp and 12k redline..

ive got 6 grand all in all for the conversion.

would 6 grand cover the H turbo engine conversion?

Does anyone do it in house?

I am really aiming for something different and special so I want to get it right first time.

[PaulM]

For 6K you could DIY V8 (7200) or I think get woodsy to do a V6, maybe with cash to balance it out and improve the possibillity of higher rpm.
Smooth power, high torque, great sound



Not as good as a V8 though ! :hidesbehi

[danlou84]

what about the 3ZR engine?

[danlou84]

K20 engine conversion... 9k anyone?

http://www.superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/2004_toyota_mr2_spyder_spyder_k2o_engine_swap/specifications.html

[PaulM]

3ZR - What a whole 150hp ? I thought you wanted something special

[danlou84]

A supercharged 3ZR :P

[danlou84]

Just found a guy on a honda forum that has experience doing the k20 swap and that.. so going to see if its doable..

[danlou84]

Going back and forth but I think the k20 with a supercharger is the winner...

Thats the engine I want so I'm off to buy the conversion kit and one of the k20 supercharger kits...

You can use the k20a box with lsd just need custom shalfs

ecu will be custom too..

wish me luck!

[OlberJ]

And if you can do that for £4k and fit it to your car, i'll suck you off untill your bollocks are so sore your kids will feel it.

Best of luck!

[PaulM]

Harsh....but fair

[danlou84]

Watch me :) and the budget changed to 6k as per newer post!

[grash2]

Watch me :) and the budget changed to 6k as per newer post!

well go for it, i ve seen the k20a in a lotus exige with the supercharger, the car is simple nuts, it has been done before on the mk3 at least once, and plenty of time in the elise exige, i am getting ideas for the mk1 haha

[danlou84]

Yeah ive spoke to some guys that have done it and I'm in talks with them as to costs etc..

If I source the parts for about 1k leaves 2-3k for labour 1k for ecu and 1k for any misc bits and bobs

[danlou84]

Supercharger will be about 4-5k so I will probably just do the conversion first then drop in the SC at a later date.

[PaulM]

So if I understand you correctly, your going to spend between £4k and £6k and get 15hp more over the 1zz.

Does the 2GR bolt onto the 1zz box ?

[OlberJ]

What will you be using the car for?

[snowtigger]

Going round to see you for this promised blow job I think in his last post.

[OlberJ]

Would love to see it done, and if you do it home-brew then it's possible with the help on here.

Just trying to figure out what the car will be used for so as to maybe help out with an easier alternative.

[danlou84]

For my own pleasure mate, I've driven an s2000 and love them love the mr-s so I want to marry the two.

I dont know what it is exactly but I love the fact its torque curve is 6k-9k

It makes me smile..

And thats what this whole games all about right?

So the plan is to buy the kit and spend a few weeks and months scratching ones head.

With help from you guys I'm hoping to get it running..

I know of about 4 others that have underwent the conversion.

So its do'able.

If you can tell me of a toyota that can go like the k20(a)

Then I'm open all ears....

The only other engine I love is the 2.7 skyline lol that goes to about 10k

But that would be impossible lol

Car's use is planned for thrashing around B roads and scaring old people

[OlberJ]

Well if it's a b-road blaster and you're happy to rev the nuts off it to keep it going then yeah that's your engine.

What sorta price you looking at for what sort of mileage engine etc?

[danlou84]

Not got a clue, the one ive been offered for 2k is a 2003 with 64k on the clock...

I've also been offered a 2009 with 2k on the clock for 3k

[grash2]

Not got a clue, the one ive been offered for 2k is a 2003 with 64k on the clock...

I've also been offered a 2009 with 2k on the clock for 3k

those prices are really good for that engine, assuming is complete, gearbox loom ecu block

remember whatever you buy you must get uncut wiring as since this a blind swap it will be better to have connector and bits, find the k20a s2000/ civic type r manual as well as any wiring info of that engine, and plan ahead, if you want to install a supercharger on a later date, keep that in mind and leave space for it, the intake port of the k20a is on the front, and the exhaust on the back, in an mr2 that makes perfect sense, exhaust will be hard to do but with a good welder anything is possible (stella)

as i see it the importand thing to learn if you can from others that have done this, is

mounting the engine at the right place, this shouldn't be hard, the k20a is a bit smaller than the 1zz, so you will only have to calculate pin point center of weight of the engine and place it correctly in the bay and to not mess the geometry of the car

wiring info, this will be the most hard part really, but if you know what every single wire of the k20a does and what each of the car then it is a simple connections, you have to read shit loads though

driveshafts, well i guess custom made? hubrid ones? trial and error, here you are going to spend some cash to get it right, as if you do not have info, you have to test parts

other than that, i believe the k20 will be like home in there

oh and btw, do not just hand over the car to anybody to do the job and vanish, as this will cost shit loads, be there know what is being done on the car and be prepared,

[danlou84]

yeah 1000% agree with you top post thanks il keep you updated..

[grash2]

yeah 1000% agree with you top post thanks il keep you updated..

btw i would go for the 2k on the clock for 3k, this is like a brand new engine and worths the extra k imo

[driftingsw21]

Since you are so dead set on things I'll make it easy for you.
http://www.livauto.net/shop/

Contact them they make a full swap kit. You do the wiring all the hard parts are supplied by them. Any easier then that I don't know what is.

[racer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExgI_itdVzM&t=772s