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View Full Version : 3SGTE into a MK3?



Gary Symons
23-02-2009, 20:13
I have started getting the mk1 ready for its mot again and noticed the retun of the dreaded tin worm (nothing too serious atm so should be good for a couple more years). Anyway, instead of another MK1 I am thinking I may go for a mk3 next.

After plenty of browsing at the weekend it is immediately apparent that there is not much info out there for this swap. (been done a few times though) So a few questions:

1. Would a tubby box and driveshaft combo work like it does on the mk1?

2. What outer Cv's fit the MK3 hubs?

3. Would the chassis rails need modifying?

4. Any other considerations that would complicate the swap? (dash wiring?)

I am expecting my current contract to end pretty soon and looking at the state of the job market i may be out of work for a while so I need a decent sized project to get my teeth into again. If I do this expect a detailed writeup on here :thumbsup:

OlberJ
23-02-2009, 20:44
Everything mechanical is as Mk1 as i understand it.

ST165 outer CV's on the tubby shafts, custom welded in mounts, etc.

Wiring wise there's more too it but definitely do-able. Woodsy will be able to tell you exactly.

It's got to be worth thinking about when you got all the cracking innards, you just need a good shell for it. Defo worth going Mk3 if you do the exterior mods too. :thumbsup:

nik
23-02-2009, 20:54
yeah agreed..would love a 3sgte mk3 with decent kit on it..
like this http://www.projectrq.com/wp-content/gallery/doublehead-avex-apr-mr-s/_DSC8518.jpg

Gary Symons
23-02-2009, 21:29
Everything mechanical is as Mk1 as i understand it.
ST165 outer CV's on the tubby shafts, custom welded in mounts, etc.


Thats what I am hoping for. Although thinking about it, do all MK3's have abs? I guess I would have to loose that.


yeah agreed..would love a 3sgte mk3 with decent kit on it..


Hadnt even though about a kit to be honest. Thats the kit I would have though :thumbsup:, nice and subtle lol.

loadswine
23-02-2009, 21:32
All Mk3s have ABS as far as I know. One of the closest kits out there that looks like the pic is the APR widebody kit. Very nice! This would be a superb build if you did it.

Murf
23-02-2009, 23:08
Just pull the ABS fuse :)

I say the opposite, keep it as stock looking as possible on the outside and stuff a tuned rev3 engine into it. That would be a hoot!!

OlberJ
23-02-2009, 23:43
yeah agreed..would love a 3sgte mk3 with decent kit on it..
like this http://www.woodsport.org/forum/images/recovered/2005/04/52.jpg

That's an inline 2GRFE in there!

Gad
24-02-2009, 02:17
Mmmm.... now that's a MK3 I could be living with!

Gary Symons
24-02-2009, 09:19
Just pull the ABS fuse :)

I say the opposite, keep it as stock looking as possible on the outside and stuff a tuned rev3 engine into it. That would be a hoot!!

I was initially thinking keeping it stock looking (mainly for budget reasons) Whatever car I do next, be it another MK1 or MK3 it will use the new Rev1 engine I am (very slowly) building.

Gary Symons
26-02-2009, 18:54
I have heard that the std Mk3 is a bit underpowered but what are they like to drive, now tempted to buy one as another toy and drive it in standard form for a while before attacking it with a grinder;). Been looking at prices and it appears that you can get a half decent one for about 4K.

OlberJ
26-02-2009, 19:03
They're fantastic to drive apparantly, better than a Mk1 for handling.

Why bother with the 3SGTE, just go inline 1UZ and be done with it. :)

Paul Woods
26-02-2009, 19:23
Beckys handled like it was on rails,but they are totally gutless with the 1zz.

Gary Symons
26-02-2009, 19:34
Beckys handled like it was on rails,but they are totally gutless with the 1zz.

Well the 1zz would obviously get dumped at some point :jump:lol.

OlberJ
26-02-2009, 19:55
Well the 1zz would obviously get dumped as soon as i got home :jump:lol.

Quite.

loadswine
26-02-2009, 23:42
They drive superbly. Even with a 1zz they are immense fun and with something packing a bit more punch, they are a total riot! I don't think I'd swap mine for anything this side of total exotica/ stupid money.

brianbooth
26-02-2009, 23:46
If only toyota had put a 3sgte in it to start with :driving:

GregHoon
27-02-2009, 00:11
I have seen one mk3 that had only a few aesthetic mods and it changed the feminine look of the car just enough. I think just a rear spoiler and clean-lined sills. The car as totally stock looks a little girly it has to be said.
So a few little things to make it look aggressive and whack a nuts rev 1 in and you'll have a monster. It'd still be close to being a sleeper as no-one will expect the power in it. Similar to your mk1.5 grsymons, looks like it's been worked on but the average joe won't expect the performance it has (still think yours is one of the nicest mk1's i've seen).

I've heard great things about the mk3's handling too. Keep the weight down. Suspension altered appropriately, nice alloys. And it won't rust away on you.

The one i saw seemed to have a little grunt to it so perhaps had the turbo fitted but tbh my nealy stock mk1.5 pissed all over it. So....

Good idea if you're gonna go for it!

brianbooth
27-02-2009, 00:27
or you could spare yourself all the work and just drop a shot of nitrous when you want to kick somebody's ass rotflmao

GregHoon
27-02-2009, 00:57
haha, i'd love to experience nitrous. Good idea lol. Cost effective if it doesn't damage the engine lol.

AlunJ
27-02-2009, 03:23
All Mk3s have ABS as far as I know.

Ya might be able to keep it after swapping shafts and hubs too ;)

It might be possible to do something similar to what I did on the crankshaft on my 4a to pick up the MS trigger. All you'd need to do would be duplicate the ABS ring pattern (scaled appropriately to take into account larger diameter) onto a ring that could be bolted to the driveshafts at the gearbox end. If you mount it using the bolts holding the inner CV joint closed on the gearbox side you'll have it mounted on the driveshaft in a positon that has no vertical movement relative to the gearbox. This makes clearances constant for the sensors.

Fab up a mounting to the gearbox for each of your original ABS sensors, giving them the appropriate clearance from the new "rings", and plug everything back in (shorten / reroute the ABS wiring as needed). The ECU should see no difference between this setup and its stock ABS setup input when the wheels are spinnin :thumbsup:

Thought about it a while back as part of a potential setup for traction control, but couldn't work out how to mount a set of rings and sensors on the front of a mk1 :rofl:

Gary Symons
27-02-2009, 07:53
or you could spare yourself all the work and just drop a shot of nitrous when you want to kick somebody's ass rotflmao

All the work and headaches fixing problems is the reason I want to do it lol

Gary Symons
27-02-2009, 07:56
Ya might be able to keep it after swapping shafts and hubs too ;)

It might be possible to do something similar to what I did on the crankshaft on my 4a to pick up the MS trigger. All you'd need to do would be duplicate the ABS ring pattern (scaled appropriately to take into account larger diameter) onto a ring that could be bolted to the driveshafts at the gearbox end. If you mount it using the bolts holding the inner CV joint closed on the gearbox side you'll have it mounted on the driveshaft in a positon that has no vertical movement relative to the gearbox. This makes clearances constant for the sensors.

Fab up a mounting to the gearbox for each of your original ABS sensors, giving them the appropriate clearance from the new "rings", and plug everything back in (shorten / reroute the ABS wiring as needed). The ECU should see no difference between this setup and its stock ABS setup input when the wheels are spinnin :thumbsup:

Thought about it a while back as part of a potential setup for traction control, but couldn't work out how to mount a set of rings and sensors on the front of a mk1 :rofl:


Not a bad idea :thumbsup:. Traction control is what I was really thinking about when I mentioned retaining the ABS ;).

PaulM
27-02-2009, 10:30
For traction control try these guy's

http://www.racelogic.co.uk/?show=Traction_Control-Products_and_Pricing-Traction_Control

brianbooth
27-02-2009, 16:58
The drive to Nebraska to find one of their dealerships would be brutal :sad:

biteme
27-02-2009, 18:21
I've got my RLTC in the Supra - awesome piece of kit. Going into the MR2 :)

msherry21
27-02-2009, 18:24
I love there kit! It just looks so well built.

brianbooth
27-02-2009, 18:39
:hijack:

It would be a wise investment but there'd be no more burnouts or cookies in the front yard rotflmao

Gary Symons
27-02-2009, 19:15
For traction control try these guy's

http://www.racelogic.co.uk/?show=Traction_Control-Products_and_Pricing-Traction_Control

Just been having a read on their website, looks like a fairly easy install and a nice bit of kit :thumbsup:

Gary Symons
01-03-2009, 20:50
Was wondering would it make an engine transplant more difficult if i was to use the sequential gearboxed mk3? I have read that it uses fly by wire throttle and a hydraulic system to change gear.

I guess you could simple transfer the gear cables etc straight over from the mk1 and hook them up to the 3S gearbox?

robwsurf
01-03-2009, 20:58
dont think the mk3 boxes one fit 3sgte and also are pretty weak

biteme
01-03-2009, 21:02
I'm sure they don't fit, but they are notoriously weak.

Definitely get a tubby box :)

Gary Symons
01-03-2009, 21:05
I would be using the 3sgte box, i was wondering if there would be any issues converting the car back to a proper manual. the safest way would be to find a manual car in the first place i suppose.

biteme
01-03-2009, 21:07
I would be using the 3sgte box, i was wondering if there would be any issues converting the car back to a proper manual. the safest way would be to find a manual car in the first place i suppose.

I'd say so buddy, there's no point reinventing the wheel...

OlberJ
01-03-2009, 21:24
Aye, you need Mk1 cables on an adapted Mk3 gear shifter system at the gear knob end to run an S54/E153 box.