Coilover recommendations

[CalusaCustomConcepts]

Ok, I purchased my 2. '86 one-owner with 69k miles. She's pretty.

But I'm ready to start upgrading the heck out of the car while I gather info and parts to do the V6 swap.

I'll be purchasing urethane bushings all around, sway bars, etc. But I'm interested in coilovers. Who makes them? What do you recommend?

Thanks in advance.

[Jim-SR]

D2, and Toda Fightex, the only off-the-shelf coilovers made specifically for the AW11

theyre both shÃ*t. the D2's are just awful as dampers, poor quality, wrong sizes, etc, generally not a nice product. the Toda's are £2500 and worth about £500, and even then theyd not be very good.

the best you can do is get a set of mk2 Ohlins and have coilover sleeves welded to them. they need a bit of modification to make it work though as the spring platforms and ARB droplink brackets are in the wrong places. but they will physically bolt straight onto the car, it just sits really high. that option would get you the best damping possible. you can get a set of them 2nd hand for £100-250 on ebay, they pop up every month or 2. brand new they are hard to get as they are only sold in Japan (its a long story as to why, 99% of ohlins product is available worldwide), but if you can get them they work out somewhere around £1200. they would then need modifying on top. if you get used ones then theyll probably need servicing at £85/damper, plus parts, and then the modifications made. youd spend about a grand on them, but as said, they would be the best dampers you could possibly buy for your car without going completely custom!

if you want to spend less then simply converting the standard strut cases to coilovers with coilover sleeves and sticking Koni inserts inside will do the job. youll probably spend more like £700 on them then. theyre probably 70% as good as the Ohlins in terms of damping

even cheaper would be to use Tokico or KYB inserts, youd get under the £500 mark, but youve got about 40% of the Ohlins performance then. it depends on whether you want coilovers for appearance, or for performance. if you want performance get some mk2 Ohlins, if you want appearance then standard cases, coilover sleeves and a set of KYB or Tokico inserts will do you fine :)

[Jim-SR]

P.S. just realised you in america. in which case you can buy Japanese Ohlins product directly through Ohlins USA. and obviously my prices are all in UK pounds, the dollar tends to work out cheaper, so you might even spend less than ive specified!

[CalusaCustomConcepts]

Thank you for the valuable info.

I'm strictly interested in the adjustability of coilovers for performance.

Any pics available of this mod?

[rattymr2]

there is a uk company called Nitron who will make up a batch of coilovers for a group buy but i dont think anyone has approached them seriously. problem is the mix of 1a and 1b owners wanting enough shocks to get a big enough group together.

[snowtigger]

have they a good reputation if there cheaper than trying the brutal aproach would have to know prices for a group buy of them.

[CalusaCustomConcepts]

I just found these (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KSPORT-KONTROL-PRO-COILOVER-85-89-TOYOTA-MR2_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33582QQihZ020QQitem Z300144440654QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1VQQtrksidZp1638 Q2em118Q2el1247) K-Sports on eBay. Look pretty good. Specs are here (http://www.ksportusa.com/asp/coilovers_detail.asp?product_id=cd01) I like the pillowtop mounts and the camber adjustment. 1k USD seems reasonable.

[Whore of Babylon]

I had masive problems with D2 sending me the wrong coilovers without a recipt so i couldent send them back....Idd think twice if i went them if i were you, they dont care about anything once theyve got your money.

[rattymr2]

K-Sports and D2 are made in the same factory

[Jim-SR]

K-Sports are Chinese junk, id avoid them.

Nitron are UK made and higher in quality, but still not amazing. they are massively overpriced for what they are, youll pay more for a set of Nitrons than you would for a set of Ohlins!

CCC, which modification did you want pictures of? i listed a few different options, and know the whereabouts of photos showing most of them. just let me know what you want to see and il search for pictures

[rattymr2]

they are massively overpriced for what they are, youll pay more for a set of Nitrons than you would for a set of Ohlins!



interesting you say that Jim. i guess the good thing with nitron is that you can approach them to purpose build shocks on a small number basis which i dont think you will get with ohlins (you might though). i think i may have been blinkered over on imoc (where i am eratic) and should be more open minded to ohlins. they are as you say market leaders. once again though why spend thousands of pounds on a car only worth 4-5k at best. if i could afford ohlins i would probably be driving a porsche not my mk1.5

:beer:

[driftmonkey]

the people commenting on the quality of d2 shocks, have you actually had a set and used them on track? or just saying they are shit? ignoring the customer service for now, im just interested in the product opinions

[rattymr2]

had them on an integra and they weren't that bad but i have heard a lot of bad reports from other people who have used them.

[snowtigger]

apparently the top mounts collapse coz there too hard and the bearings are not up to it thats wot has been posted else were but the proof of the pudding and all that may not be a bad set up i think some one with experiance in damper technology should get hold of a set and dismantle them to see if they are up to scratch now i wonder who could do such a test .

[CalusaCustomConcepts]

K-Sports and D2 are made in the same factory

Thank you for the update. I thought the response was a little non-sequitur.


All very interesting observations. If they're going to fall apart, then I'm not interested. But they do look rather beefy.

Question: If I have stock dampers now and I upgrade to these, won't I notice an improvement. You claim that the Ohlins are superior, but what is the real world indicator that I will recognize?

I'm not interested in using the MKII Ohlins if it makes the car sit higher. But if it's a coilover, can't I just lower the spring stops?

If I customize my stock struts to hold adjustable dampeners and coilover springs, what can I use for a pillowtop and camber adjuster?


which modification did you want pictures of?

I'd like to see what someone has done with a set of MKII Ohlins dampers and coilover springs.

[rattymr2]

or see the post about the ground control conversion kit on a set of Koni's.

[driftmonkey]

Well Ive just fitted a set of D2 racing coilovers to my car, hence why I was asking if anyone else had used them before, only been on the car a couple of weeks, they are solid top mounts so are abit extreme for road use, probably why the have failed before if people have been using them on a road car, over bumpy roads, speed bumps ect, but i wont be able to give a full report til after after a few track days.

[Jim-SR]

few replies to the various things asked on this topic, in no particular order....

1. ohlins are available on small orders for completly custom fitments for the exact same price as fitments they are pre-built for (obviously most custom jobs require extra parts machining though, which does add to the cost a small amount). my full time job is building dampers for cars that they arent available for off the shelf. Ohlins in sweden build dampers for maybe 50 different car applications, i think in the 10 months ive been working for the UK distributor weve sold 3 or 4 of those off-the-shelf kits without modifying them in some way. compared with several hundred custom kits. a set of genuine brand new Ohlins on an MR2 though would cost silly money, easily in excess of £4000, just because macpherson struts are the most expensive type of damper due to complexity and parts involved. the Japanese spec mk2 Ohlins are more like £1200-1500, IF you can get hold of them. 2nd hand they sell for peanuts, i got a set that cant have more than 500 miles on them from brand new (or have at least had a major service recently) for £175 delivered off ebay!!

2. ive never owned a set of D2's, but ive driven cars with them fitted, fitted them to customers cars, compared them to dampers which i know to be very good (in terms of performance and quality), and based on that my judgement is that they are cheap chinese junk. they are alledgedly made from aircraft grade aluminiums, but its not as high a grade as claimed based on what ive seen, either that or its just low quality. the anodising falls off too easily, they are often the wrong sizes, they dont have brackets in the OEM positions for the likes of brake lines and ABS wires, etc, etc

to give a few examples of how little thought goes into them, ive fitted sets where the adjustable anti roll bar droplink bracket could only be adjusted 50mm too high to actually attach to the droplink, that was as far as it would go down. another set the top mounts pointed the camber adjustment 30 degs forward, so you were adjusting camber and castor simultaneously, which was also throwing the toes significantly off. meaning everytime you wanted to adjust it you had to do a full alignment check. sometimes the dampers are physically too short and even with the strut ears at the lowest possible position (e.g. making the strut as long as it can be) the car needs raising 40mm on spring preload (making the whole independant ride height adjustment pointless) just so that the wheels dont scrape the arches. that same set then ended up with about 5mm of droop travel, which made the car dangerous on the road as it would steer everytime you touched a bump and lost traction on one wheel, and made it really nervous

those are just some common problems with them, overall they just arent nice quality. and we havent even mentioned the damping characteristics!! which just arent nice. there is HORRENDOUS amounts of rebound damping, and no low speed bump. it runs super stiff springs for "control", and the rebound means the car sits down all the time and makes it feel responsive, but its actually just slow. i really dont rate them at all.

3. dont have any pictures of mk2 Ohlins converted to coilovers yet, im in the process of doing it to mine (long term project, and other jobs have taken priority over it, such as rust!), and another lad i work with is converting some mk2 Ohlins rears to fit on the front of an AE82 Corolla because they are a similar fitment.

as standard they would sit the car too high, which is why you have to cut the spring platforms off and weld coilover sleeves on to make them work on a mk1. it sounds daunting, but you could pay someone to do it for not a massive amount of money. and the product you end up with is brilliant

it may sound at times like im trying to sell Ohlins, and that everything else is shÃ*t in my opinion. i am trying to sell Ohlins, and i do say that most other stuff is crap, but im not doing it just because its my job, id have no problem with telling everyone that the product is rubbish if thats what i truly thought, as i get paid the same regardless of whether i sell dampers to people, and id rather tell people the truth and get them value for money and the best performance they can. Ohlins really are the best dampers around, they prove it in every racing series they compete in, and on brand new builds we do we often say to people that if the dampers dont make their car faster (in terms of racing) they can send them back for a refund. weve never had a set come back because of it

P.S. pillow ball top mounts all fall apart after a while. they use a spherical bearing in an axial plane, whereas a spherical bearing is strongest in a radial direction. it has no axial strength, its just that its the easiest way to mount the top mount, so everyone does it. of course the bearings will fail prematurely, it just depends on how cheap the bearings were to begin with. the top mounts that last longer tend to be the ones that cost more with more expensive bearings in them. the bearings are usually replaceable by removing a circlip and pressing it out, and replacement bearings are £5-50 depending on quality. pillow ball mounts are just a horrible solution that makes life easier than doing it properly. but admittedly they are better than mounting on rubber if you want the car to be more responsive. everybody uses pillowball though in certain applications, including Ohlins and every other top suspension manufacturer

[CalusaCustomConcepts]

So if I buy these I can rebuild them and modify them for my '86?

Ohlins struts (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-OHLINS-COILOVERS-TOYOTA-MR2-TURBO-SW20-3SGTE-CT28_W0QQitemZ140201310062QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 140201310062)

Thank you for the info. I'm not scared of a little welding. I just would like to get an idea of what's necessary.

Lodgeman's post on the conversion is very informative. I'm awaiting his final assessment.

[rattymr2]

Sorry, when i said K Sport and D2 are made in the same factory i was trying to same they are the same shock, but the D2 has a bit more adjustability and are a different colour.

[Jim-SR]

So if I buy these I can rebuild them and modify them for my '86?

Ohlins struts (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-OHLINS-COILOVERS-TOYOTA-MR2-TURBO-SW20-3SGTE-CT28_W0QQitemZ140201310062QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 140201310062)

Thank you for the info. I'm not scared of a little welding. I just would like to get an idea of what's necessary.

Lodgeman's post on the conversion is very informative. I'm awaiting his final assessment.

yeh those can be fitted with even less modifcation. theyre already coilover (either theyve been modified or they actually make a coilover version, i wasnt aware they did though), the ONLY issue youll have with those is possibly top mounts (you might need to use mk1 top mounts, im not sure if mk2's are the same), and the anti-roll bar droplink brackets will probably be in the wrong place. but you could always use adjustable length droplinks to reach further anyway

those would be perfect. and they are fully serviceable, in the UK we charge around £85/damper plus parts (£100 if they are macpherson struts and come in the case because its more work), in the US i expect prices are comparable, and there are hundreds of service agents over there

[CalusaCustomConcepts]

What do you think of the price? Is it reasonable for used struts?

So these will make my car sit higher? Can I use a smaller spring to lower the car?

[Jim-SR]

they probably wont make your car sit higher, thats a problem on the non-coilover mk2 struts due to the spring platform location. if these ones do then youve got coilover adjustment, if that isnt enough then shorter springs will do the job

$750 isnt a bargain, but its not excessive. provided they are in good condition they are easily worth $1000, based on what it would cost to get a brand new set

[Rosssco]

So Jim, the theory is, is that any mk2 spring / damper unit should fit the mk1? Given that a stock set up would sit the car too high, but a mk2 coilover set with different top mounts (presuming they are different) would bolt up, with just new or modified drop link lugs needed??

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Toyota-MR2-SW20-Coilover-Coil-Over-Suspension-APEXi-N1_W0QQitemZ150210215742QQihZ005QQcategoryZ40192QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Guess these are good quality, but no doubt very stiff for a road application...? How well would this really work given that the mk1 weighs around 250kg less than the mk2 and has a slighty different weight distribution? Would this not make the springs very 'bouncy' for want of a better term? Eithr way I would presume the adjustability of the damper woul dbe used to dial out some of this effect...

Ross

[CalusaCustomConcepts]

Well, I called Ohlins USA and inquired about MKII coilovers. The tech who answered took my number and said he would call me back. I'm still waiting for a response.

I made an offer on the struts, but it was declined. We'll see what happens.

Thank you for all of the info.